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liberals lets debate..neocons get lost

Posted By: gt on 2005-11-06
In Reply to: POLITICS NOT PERSONAL - cheesecakeking

and the personal attacks continue, even after the owner of this board asked the conservatives to stay on their board..I will not respond to neocons, I will debate amongst the above board intelligent liberals.period..

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lets debate, not attack
Do I, really?  I only attack when I am attacked and anyone looking over the posts, archives and all, will see that..Post something to debate and I will debate, however, dont start throwing insults during the debate if it isnt going your way..which has happened..I can remember a debate on Global Warming..We debated, as soon as it was looking good towards my opinion, I was told I knew nothing, I was stupid, etc..You want a debate..lets do it..I belonged to the debate club of my college, I love debates..Come on..introduce something to debate on and I will debate you, as I bet so will other liberals..Lets debate and stop attacking..attacks gets us no where, debates just might open a few eyes..
Debate, lets debate
Honey, I dont know if your problem is Alzheimer's or Parkinson's but I have debated all over this board..I have tried and tried again and again to debate with your cohorts..It starts out okay and then your conservative friends start attacking and it continues through the debate to where then there is no longer a debate.  I ask for you to check the archives and you will see this..nothing but personal attacks against me, which then I attacked back..Debate..lets debate..I WOULD LOVE TO DEBATE WITHOUT ATTACKS..Place an issue and lets debate..Who knows..my consciousness might be raised or yours might be..Lets do it,,
DEBATE first! Country's already a lost cause.
I only lost $1000 so far-Hubby lost $2000 in a week (sm)

so, I called his financial advisor yesterday and told him to put hubby in a "safe" plan. It's now in a money market fund that is part of his IRA.


I have no choice. I have to stay where I am. I have no "safe" available. Neither of us will be able to retire on what is now in our 401Ks and you're not the only one. We couldn't buy a car with Both our 401Ks, let alone live on it.


We are late starters for retirement  not until our late 40s funds (most of our employers did not offer pensions). We are now of the first retirement tier and although we own our home outright, if we live until we are 90, there is no way we can live off retirement 401Ks or SS.


My husband's father told him back in the 50s that we would experience something like what is happening today and stated it would be worse than the ཙ crash. It is sure starting to look that way, but we will survive some way, I hope.


We need to pray for the people on SS now that cannot survive. I, for one, would love to help them, but can't help ourselves at this moment.


 

For more on what NeoCons say when
Neocons on a Cruise: What Conservatives Say When They Think We Aren't Listening
By Johann Hari, Independent UK. July 17, 2007.

I am standing waist-deep in the Pacific Ocean, both chilling and burning, indulging in the polite chit-chat beloved by vacationing Americans. A sweet elderly lady from Los Angeles is sitting on the rocks nearby, telling me dreamily about her son. "Is he your only child?" I ask. "Yes," she says. "Do you have a child back in England?" she asks. No, I say. Her face darkens. "You'd better start," she says. "The Muslims are breeding. Soon, they'll have the whole of Europe."

I am getting used to these moments - when gentle holiday geniality bleeds into… what? I lie on the beach with Hillary-Ann, a chatty, scatty 35-year-old Californian designer. As she explains the perils of Republican dating, my mind drifts, watching the gentle tide. When I hear her say, " Of course, we need to execute some of these people," I wake up. Who do we need to execute? She runs her fingers through the sand lazily. "A few of these prominent liberals who are trying to demoralise the country," she says. "Just take a couple of these anti-war people off to the gas chamber for treason to show, if you try to bring down America at a time of war, that's what you'll get." She squints at the sun and smiles. " Then things'll change."

I am travelling on a bright white cruise ship with two restaurants, five bars, a casino - and 500 readers of the National Review. Here, the Iraq war has been "an amazing success". Global warming is not happening. The solitary black person claims, "If the Ku Klux Klan supports equal rights, then God bless them." And I have nowhere to run.

From time to time, National Review - the bible of American conservatism - organises a cruise for its readers. I paid $1,200 to join them. The rules I imposed on myself were simple: If any of the conservative cruisers asked who I was, I answered honestly, telling them I was a journalist. Mostly, I just tried to blend in - and find out what American conservatives say when they think the rest of us aren't listening.

From sweet to suicide bomber

I arrive at the dockside in San Diego on Saturday afternoon and stare up at the Oosterdam, our home for the next seven days. Filipino boat hands are loading trunks into the hull and wealthy white folk are gliding onto its polished boards with pale sun parasols dangling off their arms.

The Reviewers have been told to gather for a cocktail reception on the Lido, near the very top of the ship. I arrive to find a tableau from Gone With the Wind, washed in a thousand shades of grey. Southern belles - aged and pinched - are flirting with old conservative warriors. The etiquette here is different from anything I have ever seen. It takes me 15 minutes to realise what is wrong with this scene. There are no big hugs, no warm kisses. This is a place of starchy handshakes. Men approach each other with stiffened spines, puffed-out chests and crunching handshakes. Women are greeted with a single kiss on the cheek. Anything more would be French.

I adjust and stiffly greet the first man I see. He is a judge, with the craggy self-important charm that slowly consumes any judge. He is from Canada, he declares (a little more apologetically), and is the founding president of "Canadians Against Suicide Bombing". Would there be many members of "Canadians for Suicide Bombing?" I ask. Dismayed, he suggests that yes, there would.

A bell rings somewhere, and we are all beckoned to dinner. We have been assigned random seats, which will change each night. We will, the publicity pack promises, each dine with at least one National Review speaker during our trip.

To my left, I find a middle-aged Floridian with a neat beard. To my right are two elderly New Yorkers who look and sound like late-era Dorothy Parkers, minus the alcohol poisoning. They live on Park Avenue, they explain in precise Northern tones. "You must live near the UN building," the Floridian says to one of the New York ladies after the entree is served. Yes, she responds, shaking her head wearily. "They should suicide-bomb that place," he says. They all chuckle gently. How did that happen? How do you go from sweet to suicide-bomb in six seconds?

The conversation ebbs back to friendly chit-chat. So, you're a European, one of the Park Avenue ladies says, before offering witty commentaries on the cities she's visited. Her companion adds, "I went to Paris, and it was so lovely." Her face darkens: "But then you think - it's surrounded by Muslims." The first lady nods: "They're out there, and they're coming." Emboldened, the bearded Floridian wags a finger and says, "Down the line, we're not going to bail out the French again." He mimes picking up a phone and shouts into it, "I can't hear you, Jacques! What's that? The Muslims are doing what to you? I can't hear you!"

Now that this barrier has been broken - everyone agrees the Muslims are devouring the French, and everyone agrees it's funny - the usual suspects are quickly rounded up. Jimmy Carter is "almost a traitor". John McCain is "crazy" because of "all that torture". One of the Park Avenue ladies declares that she gets on her knees every day to " thank God for Fox News". As the wine reaches the Floridian, he announces, "This cruise is the best money I ever spent."

They rush through the Rush-list of liberals who hate America, who want her to fail, and I ask them - why are liberals like this? What's their motivation? They stutter to a halt and there is a long, puzzled silence. " It's a good question," one of them, Martha, says finally. I have asked them to peer into the minds of cartoons and they are suddenly, reluctantly confronted with the hollowness of their creation. "There have always been intellectuals who want to tell people how to live," Martha adds, to an almost visible sense of relief. That's it - the intellectuals! They are not like us. Dave changes the subject, to wash away this moment of cognitive dissonance. "The liberals don't believe in the constitution. They don't believe in what the founders wanted - a strong executive," he announces, to nods. A Filipino waiter offers him a top-up of his wine, and he mock-whispers to me, "They all look the same! Can you tell them apart?" I stare out to sea. How long would it take me to drown?

since we have two neocons

(or one posting 2x) agreeing that they saw a person on Fox news refer to SP's "T#2s" I think the point is moot.  Thanks for the backup. That is, unless you have an explanation about referring to a female candidate by her body parts is not sexist, you have confirmed my original statement. Twist and shout, baby. work it on out.


 

Recess for neocons
No actually, recess is for you neocons who have never grown up, who remain in the dark ages of long ago..the dinosaurs of the political system in America.  Like those names, though, they fit chimp boy really well.  Thanks!
sweet neocons
Love the Rolling Stones, always have, but I think the name of the song should have been..Lying sack of dirt, warmonger, murdering, chickenhawk neocons..but I guess since the Rolling Stones are a commercial band and have contracts with the NFL, they had to keep their song a bit low key..
statements from neocons

Read at your own risk..make sure you have a puke bucket close by.


Quotes from the The American Taliban










Ann Coulter

 

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."


"Not all Muslims may be terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims."


"Being nice to people is, in fact, one of the incidental tenets of Christianity, as opposed to other religions whose tenets are more along the lines of 'kill everyone who doesn't smell bad and doesn't answer to the name Mohammed'"










Bailey Smith



"With all due respect to those dear people, my friend, God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew."
 









Beverly LaHaye (Concerned Women for America)

"Yes, religion and politics do mix. America is a nation based on biblical principles. Christian values dominate our government. The test of those values is the Bible. Politicians who do not use the bible to guide their public and private lives do not belong in office."










Bob Dornan (Rep. R-CA)



"Don't use the word 'gay' unless it's an acronym for 'Got Aids Yet'"
 









David Barton (Wallbuilders)

"There should be absolutely no 'Separation of Church and State' in America."










David Trosch



"Sodomy is a graver sin than murder. – Unless there is life there can be no murder."
 









Fob James (Governor of Alabama)

"Behind this judicial wall of separation there is a tyranny of lies that will fall... I say to you, my friends, let it fall!"


"A good butt-whipping and then a prayer is a wonderful remedy."










Fred Phelps (Westboro Baptist Church)



"If you got to castrate your miserable self with a piece of rusty barb wire, do it."


"Hear the word of the LORD, America, fag-enablers are worse than the fags themselves, and will be punished in the everlasting lake of fire!"


"You telling these miserable, Hell-bound, bath house-wallowing, anal-copulating fags that God loves them!? You have bats in the belfry!"


"American Veterans are to blame for the fag takeover of this nation. They have the power in their political lobby to influence the zeitgeist, get the fags out of the military, and back in the closet where they belong!"


"Not only is homosexuality a sin, but anyone who supports fags is just as guilty as they are. You are both worthy of death."
 









Gary Bauer (American Values)

"We are engaged in a social, political, and cultural war. There's a lot of talk in America about pluralism. But the bottom line is somebody's values will prevail. And the winner gets the right to teach our children what to believe."










Gary North (Institute for Christian Economics)



"The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church's public marks of the covenant–baptism and holy communion–must be denied citizenship."


"This is God's world, not Satan's. Christians are the lawful heirs, not non-Christians."
 









Gary Potter (Catholics for Christian Political Action)

"When the Christian majority takes over this country, there will be no satanic churches, no more free distribution of pornography, no more talk of rights for homosexuals. After the Christian majority takes control, pluralism will be seen as immoral and evil and the state will not permit anybody the right to practice evil."










George Bush Sr. (President of the United States)



"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."
 











George W. Bush (President of the United States)

"I don't think that witchcraft is a religion. I wish the military would rethink this decision."*


"God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."


"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."


"This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while."




*Comment about Wiccans in the military










Henry Morris (Institute for Creation Research)



"When science and the Bible differ, science has obviously misinterpreted its data."
 









J. B. Stoner (White Supremacist)

"We had lost the fight for the preservation of the white race until God himself intervened in earthly affairs with AIDS to rescue and preserve the white race that he had created.... I praise God all the time for AIDS."


"AIDS is a racial disease of Jews and Niggers, and fortunately it is wiping out the queers. I guess God hates queers for several reasons. There is one big reason to be against queers and that is because every time some white boy is seduced by a queer into becoming a queer, means his white bloodline has run out."










James Dobson (Focus on the Family)



"Those who control the access to the minds of children will set the agenda for the future of the nation and the future of the western world."


"State Universities are breeding grounds, quite literally, for sexually transmitted diseases (including HIV), homosexual behavior, unwanted pregnancies, abortions, alcoholism, and drug abuse."


"Today's children... They're damned. They're gone."
 









James Kennedy (Center for Reclaiming America)

"The Christian community has a golden opportunity to train an army of dedicated teachers who can invade the public school classrooms and use them to influence the nation for Christ."












James Watt (Secretary of the Interior)



 


 


"We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand."*
 



*Secretary of the Interior in the Reagan Admin. Responsible for National Policy regarding the Environment










Jay Grimstead (Coalition on Revival)

"We are to make Bible-obeying disciples of anybody that gets in our way."










Jerry Falwell




"We're fighting against humanism, we're fighting against liberalism...we are fighting against all the systems of Satan that are destroying our nation today...our battle is with Satan himself."


"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharoah's chariotters."


"The Bible is the inerrant ... word of the living God. It is absolutely infallible, without error in all matters pertaining to faith and practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history, etc."


"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals."


"If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being."
 









Jesse Helms (Sen. R-NC)


"The New York Times and Washington Post are both infested with homosexuals themselves. Just about every person down there is a homosexual or lesbian."


"All Latins are volatile people. Hence, I was not surprised at the volatile reaction."


"Your tax dollars are being used to pay for grade-school classes that teach our children that cannibalism, wife-swapping and murder of infants and the elderly are acceptable behavior."


"Homosexuals are weak, morally sick wretches."










Jimmy Swaggart (Jimmy Swaggart Ministries)



"The Media is ruled by Satan. But yet I wonder if many Christians fully understand that. Also, will they believe what the Media says, considering that its aim is to steal, kill, and destroy?"


"Sex education classes in our public schools are promoting incest."


"Evolution is a bankrupt speculative philosophy, not a scientific fact. Only a spiritually bankrupt society could ever believe it...Only atheists could accept this Satanic theory."
 









John Ashcroft (Attorney General)

"Civilized people – Muslims, Christians, and Jews – all understand that the source of freedom and human dignity is the Creator."










John Whitehead (Rutherford Institute)



"The [Supreme] Court, by seeking to equate Christianity with other religions, merely assaults the one faith. The Court in essence is assailing the true God by democratizing the Christian religion."
 









Joseph McCarthy (Sen. R-WI)

"Today we are engaged in a final, all-out battle between Communistic Atheism and Christianity."










Joseph Morecraft (Chalcedon Presbyterian Church)



"Nobody has the right to worship on this planet any other God than Jehovah. And therefore the state does not have the responsibility to defend anybody's pseudo-right to worship an idol."
 











Joseph Scheidler (Pro-Life Action League)

 


 



"I would like to outlaw contraception...contraception is disgusting – people using each other for pleasure."*




*I get the distinct impression that Mr. Scheidler's poor wife isn't guilty of feeling any pleasure…










Kay O'Connor (Kansas Senate Republican)



"I'm an old-fashioned woman. Men should take care of women, and if men were taking care of women today, we wouldn't have to vote."
 









Keith A. Fournier (Catholic Way)

"We need a legal strategy which protects the rights of those of us who hold Christian convictions which will afford us the opportunity to contend once again for the mind of this culture."










Laura Schlessinger



"I want to coin a phrase here, and I don't mind help. What would be the communication version of "ethnic cleansing?" Because that's what in particular the homosexual activists try to do."
 











Lester Roloff (Texas Homes for Wayward Youth)

 


 



"Better a pink bottom than a black soul."*




*Roloff opened a chain of homes for "wayward" youth in the state of Texas; he was later jailed in 1973 and again in 1975 for child abuse due to the punitive punishment techniques used in his homes. He would have been finished had he not of been specifically given permision to re-open his homes by, you guested it, Governor George W Bush.










Lt. Gen. William G. Boykin



“George Bush was not elected by a majority of the voters in the United States, he was appointed by God.”
 









Pat Buchanan (Presidential Candidate)

"Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity and that is the truth that makes men free."


"There were no politics to polarize us then, to magnify every slight. The "negroes" of Washington had their public schools, restaurants, bars, movie houses, playgrounds and churches; and we had ours."


"Rail as they will about 'discrimination,' women are simply not endowed by nature with the same measures of single-minded ambition and the will to succeed in the fiercely competitive world of Western capitalism."










Pat Robertson (Christian Coalition)




"The Islamic people, the Arabs, were the ones who captured Africans, put them in slavery, and sent them to America as slaves. Why would the people in America want to embrace the religion of slavers."


"Just like what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, so liberal America is now doing to the evangelical Christians. It's no different...More terrible than anything suffered by any minority in history."


"When lawlessness is abroad in the land, the same thing will happen here that happened in Nazi Germany. Many of those people involved with Adolph Hitler were Satanists, many of them were homosexuals – the two things seem to go together."


"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians."


"You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense, I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist."


"I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period."


"[Homosexuals] want to come into churches and disrupt church services and throw blood all around and try to give people AIDS and spit in the face of ministers."


"[Planned Parenthood] is teaching kids to fornicate, teaching people to have adultery, every kind of bestiality, homosexuality, lesbianism – everything that the Bible condemns."
 











Patrick Mahoney (Christian Defense Coalition)

 

 


"It is deeply troubling to have an appointed, unelected commission remove an elected official from office [Roy Moore]. The Court of Judiciary has overturned an election and crushed the democratic process through their actions."*




*Interesting perspective coming from someone who's President was appointed by a group of "unelected judges", thus overturning a democratic election.












Paul Cameron




"I think that actually AIDS is a guardian. That is I think it was sent, if you would, about forty years ago, to destroy Western civilization unless we change our sexual ways. So it's really a Godsend."


"Homosexuality is a crime against humanity."


"Causes of homosexuality include: 'sex with animals'"*


"Unless we get medically lucky, in three or four years, one of the options discussed will be the extermination of homosexuals."
 



*Paul Cameron was discharged from the American Psychological Association, the Nebraska Psychological Association, and the American Sociological Association due to his unethical practices and biased research regarding Homosexuals. His "research" has since been discredited by the scientific community; however his work is still referenced by many fundamentalist organizations as credible.












Randall Terry (Operation Rescue)


"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."


"Our goal must be simple. We must have a Christian nation built on God's law, on the ten Commandments. No apologies."


"I don't think Christians should use birth control. You consummate your marriage as often as you like – and if you have babies, you have babies."


"When I, or people like me, are running the country, you'd better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we'll execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed."*


"There is going to be war, [and Christians may be called to] take up the sword to overthrow the tyrannical regime that oppresses them."




*It is interesting to note that Randell Terry's son is Gay










Jerry Vines (Southern Baptist Convention)



"They would have us believe that Islam is just as good as Christianity. Christianity was founded by the virgin-born son of God, Jesus Christ. Islam was founded by Muhammad, a demon-possessed pedophile who had 12 wives, the last one of which was a nine-year-old girl."
 











Rick Santorum* (Sen. R-PA)

 


 



"If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual [Gay] sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything!"




*Now known as Rick "Santorum" Santorum










Robert Simonds (Citizens for Excellence in Education)



"As the church watches from the sidelines, the ungodly elect atheists and homosexuals to school boards and legislatures to enact policies and laws that destroy our Christian children and discriminate against Christian families."


"Atheistic secular humanists should be removed from office and Christians should be elected...Government and true Christianity are inseparable."


"We'll take away their power and their money. Money comes from students. We'll break their backs by taking 24 million kids out of the public schools."
 









Robert T. Lee (Society for the Practical Establishment of the Ten Commandments)


"Raising your children under Americanism or any other principles other than true Christianity is child abuse."


"You do not have the right to be wrong, regardless of what any man-made or demonic charter says."


"Democracy originated in the mind of a rational being who has the deepest hatred for God."


"Do you realize that the only thing that gives democracy existence is sin? The absence of democracy is perfect obedience to god."


"The best way to insure the earth is never over populated is for sensible and righteous governments to clear all forms of atheism and heresy."










Ronald Reagan (President of the United States)



"For the first time ever, everything is in place for the Battle of Armageddon and the Second Coming of Christ."
 











Roy Moore (Former Alabama Judge)

 


 



"If they want to get the Commandments, they're going to have to get me first."*


"Worship With Your Vote"




*Interesting observation of the Radical Right, Judge Roy Moore commits peaceful civil disobedience by refusing to remove the Ten Commandments Monument from the Court. He is considered a Hero. Mayor Gavin Newsom commits peaceful civil disobedience by issuing same-sex marriage licenses. He is considered an Anarchist.












Rush Limbaugh




"Feminism was established to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society."


"If you commit a crime, you're guilty."*


"There is only one way to get rid of nuclear weapons... use them"
 



*Seems logical enough, doesn't it Rush?










Star Parker (Coalition on Urban Renewal & Education)

"Anybody that believes in separation of church and state needs to leave right now."










Tony Evans (Promise Keepers)



"The demise of our community and culture is the fault of sissified men who have been overly influenced by women."
 









William Rehnquist (Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court)

"The 'wall of separation between church and state' is a metaphor based on bad history, a metaphor which has proved useless as a guide to judging. It should be frankly and explicitly abandoned."












Michael Savage (Savage Nation)

 




"Oh, you're one of the sodomites. You should only get AIDS and die, you pig. How's that? Why don't you see if you can sue me, you pig. You got nothing better than to put me down, you piece of garbage. You have got nothing to do today, go eat a sausage and choke on it."*
 



*Statement made on live national television


 

No warnings to the neocons
Nothing but attacks, nasty attacks from the neocons and they expect you to watch out for them?  I think watching the republican party and their beloved Bush disintegrate before their eyes has made them lose a few screws.  If the shoe were on the other foot, would they be so kind as to warn the liberals about a computer virus.  Of course they wouldnt.
Go back to the neoCons
Get off the liberal board **Gabriel**.
Neocons need not apply
Will you argumentative conservatives please get off this board, for pete sake!
If you love NeoCons
NOT.
Change....away from NeoCons.
nm
McMaverick vs NeoCons.
xo
Neocons make me puke
Only puke to the hateful neocons.  You guys just make me sick to my stomach with your antedeluvian ideas and beliefs..**PUKE**
neocons mentality..*frightening*
and we will leave you with your guns, delusions that Bush is doing the country and Americans good, your war, murder mentality and guarantee..at the rate this country is going, we will still be fighting terrorists 50 years from now and it is your man Bush we all can thank.terrorism is an ideology, it can never be eliminated, however, the person we should have eliminated is still free and Bush never even mentions him any more.  Give me love beads over war, war, war, war, kill, kill, kill, hate, hate, hate any day.  So sick of Bush and his idiotic mentality as most of the country is.  Cant wait till next election..Bush can go on down to Crawford and play with the cows in the manure where he cant hurt any one.
Top advisor tied to Neocons

 


http://www.rense.com/general83/ties.htm


 

The song is called "Sweet Neocons."
whoops!
ignoring the neocons is..a good thing!

It works, Lilly.  Its a breath of fresh air to ignore the neocons that frequent the liberal board just to vent their anger, LOL.  After ignoring them a few times, you dont even realize they are here anymore.  Now when I read posts, I totally zone in on liberal posts.


Condi Rice, OMG.  I cant stand that woman!


 


 

Ummmm....uber right-wing neocons would NOT...
nominate Palin. Huge difference between Bush and Palin. Good grief! lol.
To anyone who bet the neoCONS couldn't stay off this board for FIVE MINUTES

You won!  More accurately, we have all lost because they just won't leave, because in their twisted peasized brains, they believe they have the right to run this board, as well.  They're like filthy roaches that just won't go away.


In case you didn't notice, gt, we called a truce, which you just blew. sm




[Post a Reply] [View Follow Ups]      [Politics] --> [Liberals]


Posted By: sm on 2005-09-18,
In Reply to: respectful? You? LOL! - gt

I have been off this board a long time and was just discussing with another poster here calling a truce and I was VERY respectful in these posts, but, of course, you had to start up again.  To the other poster who I made the truce with, can you see now why there can never be a truce here?  

That's interesting, coming from one of the most judgment neocons on the liberal board.
Hey, Libby, DeeDee and DixieDew, the neocons think we are the same poster, LOLOLOL
LOL, it is you who is far fetched.  So, now Im Libby, DeeDee and DixieDew?  You are comical, in kind of a sad pitiful way.  Kind of like an ancient demented aunt. 
So, it was okay for the uber-right-wing neocons to elect Bush and nominate McPalin?

Now THAT's tripe.........or should I say, our country has been disemboweled and that's why Obama won the election......no matter who voted for him in the MAJORITY.

Well lets see
try having a daughter wandering around like a ghost and a 2-year-old grandson wondering where his daddy is. Try having to explain to a 2 yo why daddy is never coming back. Yeah your right, the holidays are not great around here this year as I am sure they are not great for a lot of families who have lost someone in Bush's miserable war. So why dont you and Writer go natter elsewhere and let the grownups talk here.
lets see her

Okay, let's have Mrs. Palin on the interview shows.  I want to see her interviewed by Bob Shieffer, Mat Lauer, Andrea Mitchell, George Stephanopoulous, Meet the Press, etc.  We saw that she can really deliver a written speech well.  I want to hear her personal views on foreign affairs and improving the economy. She has experience in Alaskan news, so I will expect a camera-ready, polished performance.


 


 

Lets all say............
Obama doesn't have any experience, executive or foreign!!!! And yet, he's running for President.

At least Palin knows what executive experience is, which is more than Obama has.
Oh lets s/m
We need to lighten up around here.  I'll start a thread and then I really have to get busy.
lets not go there
OK I can understand questioning his name given 9/11.  But what the heck does it have to do with being black?  Can you please tell me?  I swear. 
okay, lets go with that....(sm)

Let's say for the sake of argument that he is Muslim.  With this in mind, he would be going to a christian church, all the while faking having the christian belief.  So when Rev. Wright gets up and preaches, I can assume that since Obama is supposedly a Muslim and not a christian, that he would not believe what is being preached.  If Obama is not influenced by what is preached in this church, then what's the big deal about Rev Wright and the supposedly big impact he had on Obama? 

lets tar and feather them
This lying immoral corrupt administration needs to be tar and feathered and handed over to the families who lost loved ones in this illegal war and occupation of a nonthreatening country.  I have lost no one, however, I gotta tell ya, if I had lost someone, I would not be as kind and soft spoken as Cindy Sheehan.  I would be hell on wheels.
Just trying to help, sm lets people know there is ...sm
a message inside. If you put nm, no one will open your post because they think there is nothing inside.
lets just wait and see how it

all plays out.  As for McCain being incontinent, I did not know that until you said so. That's a shame.


 

I know, lets just talk about....(sm)
Obama's b/c.  It's perfectly okay to try to discredit the guy who isn't even in office yet over a bunch of unsubstantiated rumors, but let's not talk about the guy who is in office now who has single-handedly brought this country to it's knees as well as destroyed all credibility of this country on a global scale.  Again, Bush is still running new legislation through that will affect us for years to come unless it can be reversed.  How about that new agreement with Afghanistan?  Yeah, that would be the one that will directly impact our people over there -- not in a positive way.  It sounds to me like you have a good case of *out of sight, out of mind.*  That's a pity.
Yes they will see increases when the O lets ...sm
the Bush tax cuts expire in 2010.

Everyone's taxes will go up.


Everyone.


Interesting how the O doesn't bring this fact up at all, like it will have nothing to do with him.

hmm...no you win....lets argue about that instead. nm
x
lets get it straight abc
i said "Your can save us" what does that mean?  That is what I said.  I also said i think you are stalking me or something like that because you bashed me over and over and called me a stalker.  I never said anything hateful in that post and never said your spelling sucks.  Also, I am done arguing with you and all the people on this board like you.  You know the ones that are just looking for a fight.  The ones that LOVE to stir the pot and point out everyone's faults but their own.  The ones that scream hate and prejudice and all that crap when someone voices an opinion that is slightly different than their own.  Have fun tearing each other apart.  I will post my beliefs and opinions and ignore the people that get on simply to stir up anger.
Lets look at the big picture

Seems like each time a president leaves office everyone "hems and haws" at the list of people they pardon (especially those who dislike whatever president is leaving office).  Every exiting president has had their list of people who should never have received pardons.  Some yes, like first time offenders, people arrested for mairjuana, or caught turning back odometers, etc). 


Maybe you should have also posted the list of people Clinton pardoned.  All you said was "he pardoned some nice ones too".  You make it sound  like GW is pardoning hardened criminal while BC only pardoned some people who did petty crimes.  Even though you didn't say that, by saying "he pardoned some nice ones too" it takes away from the seriousness of the people he did pardon.  But since you didn't post Clinton's pardons I will.  Now before anyone throws a fit because I know a lot of you think Clinton is the best thing since sliced bread, I'm just posting to show that he pardoned as many creeps as Bush is.  (BTW - I didn't, have never, and do not support Bush - can't stand the guy, but at let's try to keep it honest here).  Oh and my favorites are the money launderers, income tax evaders, bank fraud, conspiracy to defraud the government, issuing worthless checks, bank fraud, etc - all those things that helped to start bringing our economy down).  Those and Roger Clinton, Marc Rich, and Susan McDougal,  I did notice how he pardoned a lot of people who lied, but then again that was Clinton's whole 8 years in office - one lie after another, so doesn't surprise me he pardoned people who lied under oath. 


You said something in regards to food stamps...look at #22 on Clintons list - Unauthorized use and transfer of food stamps.  I found an interesting article called "10 Heated Presidential Pardons" that goes back to George Washington.  I'll post the link.  All I'm saying here is that each president throughout our history has pardoned some pretty bad people that should not be pardoned.  GW is no different and no more worse than any of the previous.  Here's the article - an interesting read.


http://www.kitv.com/presidential-race/17578058/detail.html


Here's the list of Clinton's pardons


[edit] Pardons



  1. Verla Jean Allen (1990 false statements to an agency of the United States).[4]
  2. Nicholas M. Altiere (1983 importation of cocaine)
  3. Bernice Ruth Altschul (1992 money laundering conspiracy)
  4. Joe Anderson Jr. (1988 income tax evasion)
  5. William Sterling Anderson (1987 defraudment of a financial institution, false statements to a financial institution, wire fraud)
  6. Mansour Azizkhani (1984 false statements in bank loan applications)
  7. Cleveland Victor Babin Jr. (1987 using the U.S. mail service to defraud)
  8. Chris Harmon Bagley (1989 conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute cocaine)
  9. Scott Lynn Bane (Unlawful distribution of marijuana)
  10. Thomas Cleveland Barber (Issuing worthless checks)
  11. Peggy Ann Bargon (Violation of the Lacey Act, violation of the Bald Eagle Protection Act)
  12. David Roscoe Blampied (possess with intent to distribute cocaine)
  13. William Arthur Borders Jr. (Conspiracy to corruptly solicit and accept money in return for influencing the official acts of a federal district court judge (Alcee L. Hastings), and to defraud the United States in connection with the performance of lawful government functions; corruptly influencing, obstructing, impeding and endeavoring to influence, obstruct and impede the due administration of justice, and aiding and abetting therein; traveling interstate with intent to commit bribery)
  14. Arthur David Borel (Odometer Rollback)
  15. Douglas Charles Borel (Odometer Rollback)
  16. George Thomas Brabham (Making a false statement or report to a federally insured bank)
  17. Almon Glenn Braswell (1983 mail fraud and perjury)
  18. Leonard Browder (Illegal dispensing of controlled substance and Medicaid fraud)
  19. David Steven Brown (Securities fraud and mail fraud)
  20. Delores Caroylene Burleson, aka Delores Cox Burleson (Possession of Marijuana)
  21. John H. Bustamante (wire fraud)
  22. Mary Louise Campbell (Unauthorized use and transfer of food stamps)
  23. Eloida Candelaria (False information in registering to vote)
  24. Dennis Sobrevinas Capili (Filing false statements in alien registration)
  25. Donna Denise Chambers (Intent to distribute cocaine)
  26. Douglas Eugene Chapman (Bank fraud)
  27. Ronald Keith Chapman (Bank fraud)
  28. Francisco Larois Chavez (Aiding and abetting illegal entry of aliens)
  29. Henry Cisneros (former HUD Secretary)
  30. Roger Clinton, Jr. Cocaine charges(half-brother of President Bill Clinton)[3]
  31. Stuart Harris Cohn (Illegal sale of commodity options)
  32. David Marc Cooper (Conspiracy to defraud the government)
  33. Ernest Harley Cox Jr. (Defraud of federally insured savings and loan)
  34. John F. Cross Jr. (Embezzlement)
  35. Rickey Lee Cunningham (Intent to distribute marijuana)
  36. Richard Anthony DE Labio (Mail fraud)
  37. John Deutch (former Director of Central Intelligence Agency)
  38. Richard Douglas (False statements to a government agent)
  39. Edward Reynolds Downe (Wire fraud, false income tax returns and securities fraud)
  40. Marvin Dean Dudley (False statements)
  41. Larry Lee Duncan
  42. Galen R. Elmore (Convicted of cattle theft)
  43. Robert Clinton Fain
  44. Marcos Arcenio Fernandez
  45. Alvarez Ferrouillet
  46. Henry O. Flipper - guilty of "conduct unbecoming an officer" (1882)
  47. William Dennis Fugazy
  48. Lloyd Reid George
  49. Louis Goldstein
  50. Rubye Lee Gordon
  51. Pincus Green
  52. Robert Ivey Hamner
  53. Samuel Price Handley
  54. Woodie Randolph Handley
  55. Jay Houston Harmon
  56. Rick Hendrick
  57. John Hummingson
  58. David S. Herdlinger
  59. Debi Rae Huckleberry
  60. Warren C. Hultgren Jr.
  61. Donald Ray James
  62. Stanley Pruet Jobe
  63. Ruben H. Johnson
  64. Linda Jones
  65. James Howard Lake
  66. June Louise Lewis
  67. Salim Bonnor Lewis
  68. John Leighton Lodwick
  69. Hildebrando Lopez
  70. Jose Julio Luaces
  71. James Timothy Maness
  72. James Lowell Manning, (1982, aiding and assisting in the preparation of a false corporate income tax return)
  73. John Robert Martin
  74. Frank Ayala Martinez
  75. Silvia Leticia Beltran Martinez
  76. John Francis McCormick
  77. Susan H. McDougal
  78. Howard Mechanic
  79. Brook K. Mitchell Sr.
  80. Samuel Loring Morison
  81. Charles Wilfred Morgan III
  82. Richard Anthony Nazzaro
  83. Charlene Ann Nosenko
  84. Vernon Raymond Obermeier
  85. Miguelina Ogalde
  86. David C. Owen
  87. Robert W. Palmer
  88. Kelli Anne Perhosky
  89. Richard H. Pezzopane
  90. Orville Rex Phillips
  91. Vinson Stewart Poling Jr.
  92. James G. Powell
  93. Norman Lyle Prouse
  94. Willie H.H. Pruitt Jr.[5]
  95. Danny Martin Pursley Sr.
  96. Charles D. Ravenel
  97. William Clyde Ray
  98. Alfredo Luna Regalado
  99. Ildefonso Reynes Ricafort
  100. Marc Rich
  101. Howard Winfield Riddle
  102. Richard Wilson Riley Jr., Cocaine and marijuana charges, His father was Clinton's Education Secretary.[4]
  103. Samuel Lee Robbins
  104. Joel Gonzales Rodriguez
  105. Michael James Rogers
  106. Anna Louise Ross
  107. Dan Rostenkowski - Former Democratic Congressman convicted in the Congressional Post Office Scandal
  108. Gerald Glen Rust
  109. Jerri Ann Rust
  110. Bettye June Rutherford
  111. Gregory Lee Sands
  112. Adolph Schwimmer
  113. Albert A. Seretti Jr.
  114. Patricia Campbell Hearst Shaw
  115. Dennis Joseph Smith
  116. Gerald Owen Smith
  117. Stephen A. Smith
  118. Jimmie Lee Speake
  119. Charles Bernard Stewart
  120. Marlena Francisca Stewart-Rollins
  121. Fife Symington III - former Arizona governor
  122. Richard Lee Tannehill
  123. Nicholas C. Tenaglia
  124. Gary Allen Thomas
  125. Larry Weldon Todd
  126. Olga C. Trevino
  127. Ignatious Vamvouklis
  128. Patricia A. Van De Weerd
  129. Christopher V. Wade
  130. Bill Wayne Warmath
  131. Jack Kenneth Watson
  132. Donna Lynn Webb
  133. Donald William Wells
  134. Robert H. Wendt
  135. Jack L. Williams
  136. Kavin Arthur Williams
  137. Robert Michael Williams
  138. Jimmie Lee Wilson
  139. Thelma Louise Wingate
  140. Mitchell Couey Wood
  141. Warren Stannard Wood
  142. Dewey Worthey
  143. Rick Allen Yale
  144. Joseph A. Yasak
  145. William Stanley Yingling
  146. Phillip David Young
  147. Keith Sanders
  148. Darren Muci
  149. John Scott (not a full pardon)

[edit] Commutations



  1. Ronald Henderson Blackley
  2. Bert Wayne Bolan
  3. Gloria Libia Camargo
  4. Charles F. Campbell
  5. David Ronald Chandler - federal death row inmate[1].
  6. Lau Ching Chin
  7. Donald R. Clark
  8. Loreta De-Ann Coffman
  9. Derrick Curry
  10. Velinda Desalus
  11. Jacob Elbaum
  12. Linda Sue Evans
  13. Loretta Sharon Fish
  14. Antoinette M. Frink
  15. David Goldstein
  16. Gerard A. Greenfield
  17. Bob F. Griffin, former Speaker of the Missouri House of Representatives, who was serving two years on bribery charges[3]
  18. Jodie E. Israel
  19. Kimberly Johnson
  20. Billy Thornton Langston Jr.
  21. Belinda Lynn Lumpkin
  22. Peter MacDonald - Navajo Chairman (sentence for 14 years in 1993 for fraud and racketeering convictions.)
  23. Kellie Ann Mann
  24. Peter Ninemire
  25. Hugh Ricardo Padmore
  26. Arnold Paul Prosperi Florida attorney, tax fraud. managed Clinton's 1967 campaign for student-council president.[2]
  27. Melvin J. Reynolds - Democratic Congressman from Illinois - bank fraud and obstruction of justice
  28. Pedro Miguel Riveiro
  29. Dorothy Rivers - lead official in Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow/PUSH Coalition, plead guilty to theft of 1.2 million dollars in federal grant money
  30. Susan Rosenberg
  31. Kalmen Stern
  32. Cory Stringfellow
  33. Carlos Anibal Vignali - convicted of cocaine trafficking
  34. Thomas Wilson Waddell III
  35. Harvey Weinig
  36. Kim Allen Willis
  37. Kemba Smith
  38. Antonio Camacho Negron - FALN militant
only if we win LETS HOPE
xx
lets describe you
You are the most intelligent man on the face of the earth. No one understands your amazing gifts. No one gets your subtle humor. And yet, here you sit, wasting your intellect on a bunch of young women. Maybe you need to grow up and seek out your own kind.
There is no need to ban them. If we do, lets add - see message
Lets add to the list Keith Olberman, Chris Matthews, Rachel Maddow, David Shuster, Wolf Blitzer, Anderson Cooper, Alan Colmes (you already said Hannity), Thom Hartmann, Joy Behr, and a whole slew of others who spew their hate.

I may think these above mentioned names are nothing but hate-spewing propaganda pushers, but others out their enjoy listening to them. There is no reason to ban any reporter/radio/talk show host. This is America and this is supposed to be land of the free, not "Land of lets only let liberals say what they want and shut down everyone else whom I don't agree with".

As for Michael Savage. He's great. He tells it like it is. He is neither a republican or democrat and has gone after both political parties. Also there is nothing wrong with O'Reilly. He has guests from both sides on, and actually lately I've been watching him and he is tending to lean more to the left, although he calls himself an independent. He is defending Obama on a lot of issues I don't agree with. But he's entitled to his opinion and I have mine.

I don't know what Savage did to have him banned from great brittain, but there is no reason to ban him or any other talk show/radio personality from the US. Especially when they are doing nothing to deserve being banned. They do that in socialist countries, and as fast as the current admin is trying to turn the US into a socialist country as far as I know we still have our freedoms of speech - as long as it isn't inciting hate and fear - in which I'm surprised Olberman, Cooper, Mathews, and Maddow have not been banned yet for.
Yes, but lets just keep the facts straight. NM
...
Lets take care of those kids already here
Some have such loud voices when trying to stop a woman from chosing what decisions to make about HER body but, yet, you hear nothing from these same people when it is shown there is so much child abuse, children living with drug and alcohol addicted parents, children living in poverty, not getting a good education, not getting the immunizations they need, not getting health care, on and on.  Lets take care of those already on this earth..
Lets bash the pastor.

According to dictionary.com, the meanings of the N-word are “deeply disparaging and are used when the speaker deliberately wishes to cause great offense.”  They go on to say, conversely, “it is sometimes used among African-Americans in a neutral or familiar way.”  Since he whispered the statement behind what he thought was a cold microphone, it is highly unlikely that Rev. Jackson intended to cause great offense and his use of the word probably falls into the latter category of usage. 


For example, the N-word can become much less offensive and even assume neutrality within historical discourse, literature, poetry, cinema theater and the like.  One could further argue that within certain contexts (i.e. rap music, conversations within the black households, neighborhoods and businesses, to name a few) connotations of the word can be construed so as to convey a sense of community…even a brotherhood, of sorts.  Language is fluid, dynamic and vital in its nature, not static or one-dimensional.  Context, message, intent, environment, speaker and audience all impact the ultimate nuance of meaning in all forms of communication. 


I agree with you and take deep offense at the use of the N-word, regardless of who says it.  However, I would like to comment on some of the other points you raised in your post.  A careful read of the actual statement shows that Rev. Jackson did not use this epithet to personally attack Obama.  Rather, he was referring to the black population as a whole.  Granted, his choice of words was extremely poor (at least from a white perspective), but the statement was not meant for public scrutiny.  It was spoken from one black individual to another, much the same was that Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s statements were made from black preacher to black congregation. 


As a white person, I do not believe I can sit in judgment one way or another regarding his choice of words when taken completely out of context, in the same way I am not qualified to criticize the sermons of Rev. Wright.  I would like to think that I am intelligent enough to understand that, having lived in the US as a white person both before and after the civil right eras (1948 to present), I have not experienced life in America the same way black people have.  They are entitled to their own “take” on their own lives.  Who am I to tell them how to “tell it like it is?”


One last point.  I am sure that much flap and bruhah will ensue over this unfortunate news.  However, the very fact that Rev. Sharpton, you, I, the media and countless others will be having this debate over our outrage and dismay is a testament as to just how effective Rev Jackson and other early leaders in the civil rights movement were in defining the key issues, defying status quo of his times, enlisting support for the cause, effectively engaging his opposition in ongoing bipartisan initiatives over nearly 4 decades and producing fruitful, far-reaching and substantial bodies of legislation from which today’s black community continue to reap bountiful benefits and blessings.  They weathered storms of protests, incarceration, series after series of setbacks and reversals, and buckets of bloodshed in their efforts to secure the civil liberties and rights that reach far beyond the black community to encompass other forms of discrimination against women, gays, immigrants and the poor, to name a few…all so casually taken for granted and so easily dismissed in the blink of an eye with one ill-chosen, unfortunate slip of the tongue. 


For those of us whose memories reach further back than the latest round of CNN sound bytes and chat room chatter, we probably would forgive Obama should he decide not to denounce Rev Jackson’s support, nor would we feel driven to force him to abandon his own pastor of 20 years for the sake of our own righteous indignation. 

Oh I see...he lets his minions do the gutter of mud for him...
got it.
Lets her daughter get pregnant ????
I don't know ANY mother who would get up one day and say, "Gee, I would love to LET my daughter get pregnant". What do you think she should do, handcuff herself to her daughter and follow her around all day and night? Give me a break!!! There are mothers who are home all day with their daughters and they get pregnant. Who you wanna blame now!!!!

Her daughter getting pregnant does not imply sexual abuse at all....I see two hormone driven teenagers. Lets not get so carried away that just because a teenage girl gets pregnant you jump on that stupid bandwagon of believing she was abuse. I feel pretty confident in saying she was probably a willing participant....now they both have to deal with the consequences just like others from the beginning of time......
Lets keep up the smearing of Obama. How can you believe
everything you read? Trying to convert the Obama supporters to McCain? I think by now most everyone has made up their minds on who they are voting for and all the smear tactics are going in one ear and out the other. McCain and Obama will say anything to get into office and once they are there they do will exactly what they want. SO SAD. AND if all of this is true, then why is Obama able to continue with his campaign? If he gets elected, are the FBI are going to do further checks and then what? Do they arrest him, impeach him? What? I just do not get it.
Agree. Lets wait for O to come out with his third
xx
lets all sing about Jesus
As MT you should know better. Are we talking about a procedure or the morning after pill?

Catholics think the Mirena is abortion, the birth control pill is abortion. You know what? If the republicans stay in charge, no one will have any money to take care of their kids. They will all be driving to Nebraska to drop them off. Give me a break. You want to prevent MURDER, go to Congo this week and preach to them!
Lets talk about the mammas

Who out there has sent a child to Iraq?  
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