Actually no, that isn't what Neocon means at all. sm
Posted By: Brunson on 2006-11-04
In Reply to: Neocon. - Lurker
And I wasn't the one who wrote the things you are responding to, but here is a really good definition of Neocon and perhaps you can see why AG and I and others have stridently objected to being labeled Neocon in the past. Though I have some Neocon friends and I admire most of their beliefs, I am no Neocon. Neither, for that matter, is President Bush, who has been labeled a neocon ad nauseum on these boards.
From Chris Jones:
It would appear that you are unfamiliar with the history of the neo-conservative movement, a history which explains why some folks associate it with Jews and why the use of “neo-con” as a pejorative seems to some to smell of anti-Semitism.
The original “neo-conservatives” were a group of left-of-center intellectuals who became disillusioned with their liberal politics and became conservatives — mostly, but not exclusively, on foreign policy and national security issues. Many, but not all, of these intellectuals were Jewish, and the “center of gravity” of the nascent neo-conservative movement was Commentary magazine and its editors and writers. Prominent among the early neo-conservatives were Irving Kristol and Norman Podhoretz (who are Jewish) and Jeanne Kirkpatrick (who is (I think) a Gentile). Commentary magazine played the role in the neo-conservative movement that was played by National Review in the broader conservative intellectual movement of the 1960s and 1970s.
The contemporary conservative journalists Bill Kristol and John Podhoretz are the sons of the early neo-conservatives Irving Kristol and Norman Podhoretz.
The defining characteristic of neo-conservatism, properly so called, is a belief in a robustly activist foreign policy by people who were formerly left-of-center. The movement is associated with Jewish-ness because many of its early leading lights happened to be Jews; but Jewish-ness is accidental to the movement, not characteristic of it. To use “neo-con” as a sort of vaguely anti-Semitic slur is not only dishonorable, but a misuse of language. That doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen, though.
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Bye bye neocon
GET OFF THE LIBERAL BOARD, FOR PETE SAKE, GET OFF THE LIBERAL BOARD, WE DONT WANT YOU HERE.
Bye bye, neocon
Bye, bye, neocon..you have been told quite a few times to stay off the liberal board..IMHO save yourself from grief and angst..dont read this board, dont post on this board, dont come on this board..
Neocon.
I always thought neocon mean the **new and improved version** the *reenergized*, the uber-conservative.
We are the ones who think what is causing so much of the problem is the attitude of the American left.
The true conservative is not faint of heart, and we've still got a lot of fight left in us...for the the actual war and for the fight against the extreme leftists who have now unashamedly positioned themselves as a roadblock in the effort.
The above statements you made are what I was referring to about the maligning the left. These hawkiest of the hawks are backpeddaling which is a huge shock to me, but you think the problem is **the American left** who have **positioned themselves as a roadblock.**
I, on the other hand, think these guys mentioned in the article said they felt the administration was incompetent. Perleman said he still thought his own philosophy about spreading democracy and using a dominant military was the right way to go; he has just discovered that this administration can't do it. I believe he said, verbatim, it's a good idea but we have to throw it in the Can't Do drawer because it is over, at least for a generation. None of these guys mentioned the left as being part of the problem; they laid it squarely on the shoulders of this administration.
Yep, it's not hard to believe that the neocon
Limberger is a liar in the midst of all of his drama how can he keep a story straight?
He probably forgets half of it anyway, that's the drug effect.
One more thing, neocon
Furthermore, no one is asking you conservatives to leave the board because of **my tender feelings**..I only know these people through their posts, why would they ask you to leave because of me..What I post and my beliefs, I DEFEND THEM AND DO NOT ASK ANYONE ELSE TO **GANG UP WITH ME** against conservatives which is not like your ilk, who always gang up with your conservative cohorts on the liberal board against the liberals. Whatever reason anyone on the liberal board asks you to leave is NOT BECAUSE OF GT..Maybe in your psyche it is easier to take, thinking..well, they only ask us to leave because of **GT's tender feelings**..Well, that is not the reason..I have never asked anyone on the liberal board to back me up or to ask you conservatives to leave..It is their opinions, beliefs and feelings and I have mine..When they ask you to leave they do so for their own reasons, NOT MINE.
Another cut and paste from a neocon rag
Boy, you are a slow learner. You complain to another poster that the NY Times is liberal slanted yet you cut and paste from you right-wing neocon rags (I know you don't like the neocon label but too bad). You make it appear this is your original thinking. You post this stuff like it's your original writing and thinking but it's all cut and paste or right-wing propanda. I think you get 1 star on this one but you get high marks for crazed and annoying persistence and perserveration.
You evidently don't know what a NeoCon is.
She is not one of them. Why do you think Bush & Cheney and other NeoCons are upset by this pick.
Is this what the democrat party has turned into...hateful, mean-spirited, sour, and jealous. Your comments are about the lowest I have seen in a long time.
The only thing I can think of is that you thought because Bush was such a horrible president and everyone hates him that Barack and Joe would just be able to waltz in and take over. Now the republicans have a good VP candidate and there is more and more discussions about how JM has just elevated his chances of winning. The more people are learning about her the more they are like her and all reports for both conservative and liberals are in agreement with one thing...this is an amazing lady and definitely qualified to become the first woman president in history.
You are just grasping at straws trying to invent things that are not true and just stir up trouble.
Your comments are so juvenile. I just say thank goodnes at least I'm not in grammar school anymore.
Neocon human shield
You are the one who is so PRO WAR, why dont you become a human shield and go to Iraq and help the unfortunate people we have destroyed and stop spouting your hate and baloney here. Im anti war, 100% and anti Bush for sure..I hope Bush rots in hell along with his family because they could have talked some sense into him. They all should go to Iraq if they believe so much in the *noble mission*..Oh, wait a minute, what is the mission? WMD?, Nah, liberating Iraq and creating a Demcracy, nah, never gonna happen.
Typical NeoCon spincrud
NOBODY KNOWS for a FACT what is causing climate change on earth. It's just as much propaganda to hear one side as the other on the matter. Not surprising however that NeoCons would find outrageous the fact that anyone might want to take some action to lessen the human impact on the planet in hopes of preserving some part of it for future generations. Oh, how EVIL! Oh, the dark awful motivations of people who want to CLEAN THE AIR and restore some balance to our atmosphere.
Besides that the article is ridiculously stupid. It harps on KILLER hurricanes. Oooh killer hurricanes are DECREASING DECREASING.
Interesting fact ANYONE can figure out for themselves: Hurricane ANDREW (note the first letter) struck on an August 29. First hurricane of the season that year. On August 29.
Note Katrina's first letter: K. That makes her the 11TH hurricane of this year. On August 29.
While the category 4's and 5's are rare, the instance for having them at all is VASTLY INCREASED WHEN THE NUMBER OF HURRICANES THAT COULD BECOME ONE ARE VASTLY INCREASED. Last year and this year both have shown an astonishing upsurge in the NUMBER of hurricanes were are experiencing per season. Since hurricanes are born in the hot air over the African desert, the fact that the desert is expanding by leaps and bounds due to an upward trend in temperatures in that region virtually guarantees we will be having more and more hurricanes that have a chance to develop into killers under just the right conditions.
Nobody knows if global warming is responsible for the expansion of the Sahara or the melting of the polar glaciers, or if the worldwide phenomenon is due to mankind's effects or is just a natural cycle we can't avert. WHO CARES. If some educated people believe they know a way we can HELP the situation why do NeoCons want to thwart them? Oh, right, because corporations might lose money. Our oil economy might burp. So, let's just pooh the world away why don't we. Let's make it a political game and let our arrogant pride hold out for the sake of nothing but holding out. That's the NeoCon game!
Another neocon lie. GT has repeatedly tried to debate
in an intelligent non-bashing manner, but you people can't stand that.
Just go to page #11 and see the posts on 7/20 and 7/21 where she took MT's abuse, let it roll off her back and tried to debate with her, watched as MT was close to having a seizure and then told her to chill.
Reading the archives is interesting. LOL. Even see one where MT denies being a conservative and then says she'll never post here again. 
another ignorant post from a neocon
Your accusation that because Im liberal/democrat/anti war and so I smoke reefer shows your ignorance..PERIOD..I dont post in broad generalizations and I ask you to show me where I have..PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE I HAVE POSTED IN BROAD GENERALIZATIONS OR LIES. And, I once again ask you to show me the news reports of where there was a stench in the DC mall because of the anti war people or the anti war people in your town do not bathe and stink..Show me the stories..Waiting for the proof..sure hope you can post it, otherwise guess you are discredited and proven to be a liar (so what else is new, conservative=liar)..Guess you need to find another handle to post under the liberal board, LOL.
Have you seen the neocon think tank's web page?sm
This is who supplies Bush with most of his ideas. Take a look at the PNAC's members list.
www.newamericancentury.org
Also, take a look at:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
Their plan is for super power and extensive wars. Lebanon is simply a pretext to invading Iran,just like they used 911 to invade Afghanistan (but really wanted to attack Iraq not for WMD but for their energy resources). Doing a little more research you will also find the USA Patriot Act was written before 9-11.
And you demonstrate neocon policies.
Lying and attacking and personal insults. You can't defend the issues because your theory is indefensible.
Again, this is the liberal board. We're not here to please you.
You are still misusing the term Neocon. sm
Not that you will stop, but it is irritating.
From one post you figure someone is a neocon...
geez. Post a clip, so people can see the whole context of what was said. Then let them decide. After all the ripping of Sarah Palin, you seize on this? Walls shattering in your glass house there, friend.
Neocon, I think you are posting on the wrong board
GET OFF THE LIBERAL BOARD, FOOL..we dont want you here.
Coulter - Acerbic Neocon Banshee.sm
This woman has nerve calling anyone Godless when she supports an administration commiting genocide throughout the world. The 911 truth movement is getting stronger every day, so it does not surprise me she is attacking 911 widows. Her most priceless statement was, they ought to just take the money and shut up on MSNBC last night.
Most on the left misuse the term neocon. sm
I think they just like the sound of it, especially the *con* part.
Pay close attention. The question was about pub/NeoCon
Do the conservatives have any clue about how to address these issues, other than run from them. This is a yes or no question.
Nice 2 C fascism is alive and well in NeoCon USA.
Keep this up and the only thing Obama will have to do to win the election is keep breathing.
Williams confronts neocon pundit Kristol.sm
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/16/kristol-williams/
NeoCon cult vision promotes more fear.
nm
Yeah, right. Creating a NeoCon parallel universe
nm
Careful! Some neocon troll might twist your post into a threat!!!
More delusions of grandeur from the NCFC (Neocon/femocon) fringe.
su
Luckily, your foul tricks won't work this time. Begone, NeoCon.
You guys have tried this before and the only reason it worked was because a) you had a fresh crop of victims every few months or so as the liberals you didn't like got banned from the board, and b) you know the ins and outs because you yourselves were posting under multiple names repeatedly for a very long time. Your favorite trick was always to accuse others of doing what you yourselves were constantly doing, and you vicously accused a lot of innocent people who had no idea what you were talking about. I believe the Bible calls this false witness. Not that you'd care.
The liberals don't have to resort to such deceit. They actually say something in their posts and they believe in what they say. They stand by their words.
It's the one-line slimers who post and run anonymously and try to pump themselves up to look like more than they are by posting under multiple names, agreeing with themselves - they have nothing better to do, no real thoughts to offer, and no real desire to communicate. Hence the anonymous posts they don't want to own. All they are about is tearing down and creating conflict - kind of like the administration they revere.
So don't try it, NeoCons - your habit of blaming others for the deceit you practice yourselves isn't going to fly anymore. You're busted.
I think you know what she means...nm
Oh, by all means, it is I who thank you.
''
This means nothing to me
I have seen this and it has been debated as naseum.
As far as winning in Iraq, I am not sure what we are supposed to win.
And please, don't EVER call me your DEAR again. Keep your patronizing on our own board.
Thank you.
It means nothing to you. sm
Yes, by all means, save your anger for being called dear when there it is posted in black and white what the antiwar movement did to our soldiers in Vietnam. Lord love a duck, but I have seen it all now.
Oh, I know what it means....
It is just an uneducated, goofy thing to say...that's all. And you should apologize to all those "grandmas" on this site who you just offended. You are so negative! 
Thanks - that means a lot
Was wondering if anyone would comment. I always question what the government feeds us, but I truly never have in my entire life ever heard our enemies say they hate us because we are free. I always think - how absurd. They just want us to leave them along and stop imposing our viewpoints on them. Thanks again.
I did not know what this means
I'm not sure if you're implying this is a good thing or not and because I didn't know what it means I looked it up. I'll write what I found out and then you can tell me if you think its a good thing or not.
Black theology refers to a variety of Christian theologies which has at its base in the liberation of the marginalized, especially the injustice done towards blacks in American and South African contexts. Black theology mixes liberation theology and the work of Paulo Freire with the civil rights and black power movements.
I had to keep researching certain terms in this because it was still confusing, so I looked up liberation theology and it states that liberation theology is a school of theology within Christianity, particularly in the Roman Catholic Church. Two of the starting points of Liberation theology are first, the question of the original sin, and second, the idea that Christians should make good use of the talents given by God, and that includes intelligence in a general sense, and in particular science.
I then looked up who Paulo Freire is and it says he was a brazilian educator and influential theorist of education. He became familiar with poverty and hunger during the 1929 depression and these experiences shaped his concerns for the poor and would help to construct his particular educational viewpoint.
There's way to much information on both these topics to write here, but to me it sounds like another positive for the Obama's Trinity Unity Church.
Sure you can. :) Means I am doing something right. lol. nm
nm
It means something to me. Obviously not to you....
stop reading my posts if they aggravate you so much. It is a free country. No one is forcing your little mouse to click but you.
Well, that certainly means you are NOT
me his character. Show me one close friend in his past without a shady background, one he does not have to defend. Everyone who has touched his life and made any sort of impression on him has warped his character. Yet, no one who is enamored with him seems to care. They do not care that he stands for nothing, they cannot tell you what his plans for this country are or how he is going to accomplish them. And, they certainly do not want to listen to anything from his past.
Ah, that means you definitely know one or more
xx
maybe she means
congress???
no it means
that I don't wish to spend the time to indulge you
By all means...............sm
let me get that door for you.
It means......
Why didn't you run for election, YOU MIGHT HAVE BECOME THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, BECAUSE YOU SEEM TO BE ABLE TO EVEN TELL THE 44TH PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, BARACK OBAMA, WHAT TO DO.
I guess that when it comes to foreign policy you are in the la-la-land.
It means I won't lie....
But because "several in your town" exist, presumably, that doesn't make you an expert except for maybe in your own grandiose dreams.
Oh, by all means...
Let's jump on this bandwagon instead of discussing the train wreck that IS in the White House.
And, to be honest, this post does NOT deserve to be on the political board. It has nothing to do with politics, just the sore winner Dems continuing to skewer the loser. Palin LOST, people. Let it go.
What she means to say....(sm)
is that I am one of a handful of liberals left on this board. Most everyone else is a republican, so therefore anything I say on here is typically not understood, taken out of context, or simply replied to in terms of character assassination, like the post that I'm responding to now. Just look down the board and you'll see what I'm talking about.
russell means
Russell Means Visits Camp Casey II
Means Says He Understands Power Of Women
By Gene Ellis
ICONOCLAST REPORTER
CAMP CASEY II — Russell Means’ appearance on the stage at Camp Casey II in Crawford yesterday was a surprise to many. For background on this famous Indian (who eschews the government term “Native American”), see brief additional biographical information at the end of this story.
Means, a long-time activist, arrived in Central Texas to support the efforts of Cindy Sheehan and her Iraq war protestors. He well understands the power of women. He spoke, both on stage and in a later interview with the Iconoclast, of the matriarchal society of the American Indian.
Motherhood in America has an inkling of the meaning of this, Means mused, but the Indians live it.
He explained that in a family, the mother is the only member who cannot be replaced. Women live longer than men, can stand more pain, have more endurance, he said. At about this point, Means introduced his wife, Pearl, and received a hug from Joan Baez, who was sitting on the floor of the stage with Cindy Sheehan, listening to Means’ remarks.
Means said that America has a patriarchal society where men rule alone and in fear of the unknown because they are alone. Matriarchy, he pointed out, is not fear-based. In a matriarchal society, each sex is celebrated for its strengths, and there is local control, male/female balance.
During the later interview with the Iconoclast, Means made a point of saying that he is sincere about women taking control of their power, providing a balanced and positive culture. The Blue and Gold Star mothers have an innate understanding of matriarchy, according to Means, even though, as members of a patriarchal society, they have been brainwashed for many years.
In a matriarchal society, all must be responsible.
“If the government of this country imposes so many rules, we feel no responsibility for ourselves, and we become careless,” said Means. To illustrate his point, he used the example of the lack of traffic rules in Italy. Because there are no rules, each person must take it upon his or herself to be responsible, not to be careless, to ensure his or her own safety.
When asked to speak about military recruiters targeting low-income youths, including Indians, Means said that it follows the history of a patriarchal society that the poor kids are to be the common fodder. Even after the Civil War, when Americans wouldn’t join the military, European immigrants were pulled off boats and forced to do two years of subscripted service to obtain citizenship. The poor are always a target for military induction, Means concluded.
Means reiterated that if men rule alone in their citadels of power, they are fearful.
A libertarian, Means paraphrased George Washington, “Government is force, nothing more, nothing less.”
Means added to this his own thoughts, “This government is evil. How can patriots support a president over the Constitution? That is treason. The purpose of the first amendment is to encourage dissent. Without dissent, it is impossible to live free.”
His comments were reminiscent of Margaret Mead’s quote that has graced the back of many a tee shirt in Crawford over the last two weeks. It reads, “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.”
The Los Angeles Times has described Russell Means as the most famous American Indian since Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse.
Means is a life-long indigenous rights/constitutional rights activist, actor, artist, and author. His best selling autobiography “Where White Men Fear to Tread” is currently on its eighth printing. He has a doctorate in Indian Studies, and is also a practicing attorney on the Sioux Indian Reservation in South Dakota.
For more than 30 years, Means has remained active with the American Indian Movement and has traveled and lectured extensively throughout the world while working for over 12 years with the United Nations.
Means became the first national director of The American Indian Movement (AIM). He is known for helping lead his people to stand against the United States government at the Siege of Wounded Knee in 1973.
His vision is for indigenous people to be free — free to be human, free to travel, free to shop, free to trade where they choose, free to choose their own teachers — free to follow the religion of their fathers, free to talk, think and act for themselves, and then, says Means, they will obey every law or submit to the penalty.
About The Siege at Wounded Knee, he wrote, “Our aim at Wounded Knee was to force the U.S. government to live up to its own laws. From that, one can draw the real lesson of our stand there: It is the duty of every responsible American to ensure that their government upholds the spirit and the laws of the United States Constitution. After all, what freedom really means is that you are free to be responsible.”
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RUSSELL MEANS (right) gets a hug from singer Joan Baez at Camp Casey II on Saturday.
— Iconoclast Photo By Gene Ellis
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Copyright © 2005 The Lone Star Iconoclast |
Please enlighten me as to what it means.
Considering we will never leave Iraq if Bush plans on placing a permanent military base there.
Regardless, this means we kill them all?
It is their right to live the way they chose. We can't go attacking every one who is a possible threat on more levels than I'm going to go into here. I would rather see our leaders spend the time and money on securing things here rather than wage war there. We are just formulating more hatred. We CAN change whether we are the ones in the war by not going to war, and I shall not blindly trust our leaders to do the right thing because it has been proven time and again that they rarely do.
UM BEFORE YOU KNOW YOUR PREGNANT MEANS...
before you've missed a period! you totally contradicted yourself. i never said at the instant of sex you're pregnant. I said the heart is beating before "MOST" women know they are pregnant, and you JUST VALIDATED MY POINT!!! even going as far as to say they are developing at week 4! (which is when women miss their periods) you do know how this works don't you?
Never noticed that before. Not that it means anything of course.....
but it IS freaky. lol.
By all means....don't view it. You might actually have to really know...
what you support. Can't have that, can you?
Of course not. It just means she doesn't use it herself.
nm
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