Bush sunk himself and our country......DEBT
Posted By: nm on 2008-09-11
In Reply to: 2003 Rockefeller Memo - jb
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Our country was not in debt with Clinton but it was sm
when bill got in office and saw the mess bush senior made, it had to be dealt with.... just as this mess GW made will take years to clean up.... but Clinton did get us in the black. Barack is going to use that same tax formula and that is why he said you will pay no more than what you paid in taxes under Clinton. That goes for the rich too.
And what about the debt he inheriteed from George W. Bush, take off the blinders......sm
and they say WE have been drinking Kool-Aid? WE had a president who could hardly color inside the lines, was an inarticulate moron, catered to special interests, led us into an unjustfied war with Iraq (HELLO, IT WAS THE TALIBAN/OSAMA IN AFGHANISTAN ON 9/11), we lost all respect around the globe, and he took a balanced budget from President Clinton and got us into trillions of dollars worth of debt, all the while allowing all bhe banking deregulation, feeding the GREED machine in this country. The past administration was a TRAGEDY perpetrated on the American people, so you folks can keep drinking your Republican Red Kool-Aid, keep prematurely judging this president as you lick your lips praying for his failure, which by the way means RUIN for you, me, and the rest of the nation. The man is willing to TRY, to compromise, and he has only been in office barely three weeks. All the harshness against Obama is misdirected anger and pique that the Republicans were ousted. IMHO. Saying stuff over and over DOES NOT MAKE IT SO!!!
Probably would've sunk anyway. A president can't
Nor can a $850 million bailout. It'll just have to go through its own spasms as it readjusts itself.
Obama supportors have sunk to an all time low...sm
Has anyone seen this? If it's been posted about already, please forgive me, as I've been busy working.
This just really makes me sick to my stomach, to think that anyone could sink this low.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/09/09/outrageous-fake-ebay-listing-selling-palins-baby-trig-political-
Baby Trig listed on ebay
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=a-NWKO3QcXA
Dispatch from Bush country
Of course I am talking about Houston, Texas. Your question about what part I live in must be rhetorical. MTs do not live in River Oaks. As a matter of fact, I purchased a condo smack dab in the middle of Sharpstown in 2000, 2 blocks from the intersection of Hillcroft and 59. I made this choice based on my desire to immerse myself in the most culturally diverse area of the city. To give you an idea, in Houston, 90 languages are spoken; 70 of them are spoken in Sharpstown. My family moved to Sharpstown’s neighboring suburb city, Bellaire, TX in 1959, so I am an old-timer, just like you. Basically, these same 4 square miles have been my “hood” for 50 years. Having been an activist since my college years at U of H, where I double-majored in anthropology / sociology and minored in geography, I have watched Houston growth and evolution with keen interest from that perspective all of my adult life.
Before proceeding, let me touch on the issue of crime you raised. Houston metroplex is the 4th largest city in the US but its crime rate rank is 11th. From where I sit, that ain’t too shabby, considering we are talking about 3 million people. I cannot quite understand how it is that, in one fell swoop, you have identified illegal immigrants as being some major source for crime this city. Even in your own example, 2 illegals out of 70 amounts to 2%....hardly cause for such uproar. I think we could at least concede that 70 versus 3 million = apples to oranges.
I know that conservatives havr somewhat of an aversion to the concept of context, so bear with me here for a moment. The issue of population density comes in to play when talking about crime. Sharpstown has an exceedingly dense population is a very small area, particularly the Latino sector. This is due to the presence of the many, many large, sprawling apartment complexes on the landscape. I did a study of this a few years back and was astounded to find that the population density there exceeds that of most major Chinese urban areas. We will revisit this point later.
Around 20 years ago, my neck of the woods was designated as Super Neighborhood by City Council as part of a pre-emptive, progressive, proactive, inclusive approach I spoke of in my previous post. The crime rate has dropped drastically since its inception. The City deemed the area worthy of investment, particularly in light of the nearby diverse populations. As a consequence, 2 blocks from my condo, there are a variety of well funded, well maintained outreach facilities, including a Harris County clinic facility, Jobs for Progress (SER) program facilities that offer job skills training and placement for unemployed and underemployed, Big Brothers / Big Sisters school, day care and rec center, many ESL programs (where I go to volunteer) and a brand new multi-service city facility, similar to a YMCA, that provides both after-school /weekend programs, classes of all sorts for children and adults and a heavy focus on assimilation initiatives that address NEW IMMIGRANT issues in terms of language, education, housing, employment and legal counseing. There is a division there which services the special needs of political refugees, of which there are many.
Let’s pause now for a brief virtual tour of the neighborhood. The Asians are on the western fringe of Sharpstown. It is very apparent just how much wealth their community has generated in the area. The development there has been organized, funded and executed well, primarily by their local residents…very little investment needed from the city. They ask for little and give back much. New businesses continue to pop up month-by-month on the Bellaire Blvd horizon.
If you are still familiar with the geography, you know how many nationalities are visible up and down Hillcroft and how many foreign-owned businesses flourish there and along it’s local cross-street, Harwin, just north of 59. My immediate vicinity, just west of Hillcroft, is sandwiched between the Asian and Latino communities (just east of Hillcroft) to which you refer…we’ll go there momentarily. In this niche, there are 5 of those huge complexes I spoke of. By eyeball count, 90+% Moslems of all sorts live here. In a 5 square block area, there are 2 large mosques, both of them quite beautiful. One of them is situated on the other side of the fence that faces my front door. Every Friday, I hear call to prayer broadcast over the neighborhood. While this may offend some of the more conservative among us, I find it no different than the sound of church bells. In my particular niche, crime is quite rare and when it does occur, even less seldom is it committed by a local resident.
The Latino sector is the most densely populated area of all. Many of the same programs have been implemented on that side of Hillcroft, with similar success, especially in terms of redction in crime rates. I have been shopping at the Fiesta supermarket there since the 1960s, which caters to the international community. The landscape there is also dominated by huge complexes and when I drive though there, I do get a feeling I am south of the border. There are ethnic communities embedded in all major US cities and Houston is no exception. I offer no apologies for this and, in fact, I feel right at home there. After all, the place is part of me and I am part of the place.
BTW, a portion of some of the growth and evolution of Houston’s diversity is directly related to the influx of immigrants created by various types of failed US foreign policies and initiatives, past and present ….Viet Nam, Nicaragua, NAFTA, and the disastrous US-backed coup in Iran in the early 1950s, which took out the secular democratic leader (Mosadegh), who had the audacity to suggest that Iran should control it’s own oil industry through nationalization. They brought the Shah back from exile, their most favorite puppet of the times, whose torture and repression of his opposition ultimately led to the Islamic Revolution in 1979. So much for promoting democracy. Who knows what the face of the Middle East would look like today had Mosadegh remained. Let’s not talk about how backing Israel has destabilized the entire region. Can you say REFUGEE?
In terms of your family members and regarding conservatives as a whole, if you go looking for trouble, you will probably find it. Bigotry does not exactly facilitate clear vision. My previous post was describing the general cultural and political climate of embracing diversity, rather than condemning it. Of course there are detractors, in no small numbers, I might add. I’ll say it again. Generally speaking it works out quite well. Incidents of discrimination against immigrants are extremely rare. I would much rather live in an environment of mutual respect, cooperation and tolerance, rather than taking the fearful, suspicious, paranoid, cold-blooded, hateful, exclusionary approach you and your buddies are promoting.
I think Bush has run this country into the ground.
the better with Obama in office instead of McCain and whatever her name is?????
Obama has nothing to do with market... BUSH TANKED OUR COUNTRY nm
nm
Sorry but Bush is a crook and nothing you say will change that. He did our country a lot of damage.
just move on from that, you cannot. It's damaged us a whollleee lot and your snide comments will not change that.
Hello?! 8 years of Bush cratered the country & caused this
nightmare in the first place. They are all frantically trying to keep us from another Great Depression caused by Bush & republican control. I personally think the damage runs so deep that it can't be stopped in time, but at least they're trying! Maybe next time the idiots will remember what Bush & his cronies have done & will be smarter than to vote republican...
Who put us in debt?
Who borrowed all that money from China? 42% of the bill is Republican proposed tax cuts. The last stimulus proved that tax cuts don't work (Under George's watch- helped his base, though). The money is either saved or used to pay off debt, neither of which help the economy. Maybe you ought to look over your shoulder and see where the real blame lies. Obama is doing the best he can and all you racists can do is trounce him at every turn. And don't even bother bleating that you're not racist as I see no other reason why you would hug the last administration so fiercely and hate Obama with so much venom. Obama hasn't been able to do ANYTHING yet. Both sides of the aisle wrote that stimulus package - so figure it out.
debt you can believe in
I can only hope our economists can somehow separate Obama's debt, which will kill us all in our sleep, from Bush's debt, which made us all rich and strong ("Reagan proved deficits don't matter," as VP Richard Cheney famously said--haha, I can't use his usual first name in the post; how stupid is that?).
No, wait. What I actually hope is that the difference between governing and politics keeps becoming more and more visible, so that people are forced to think outside their usual assumptions about what their political party stands for.
No. Remembering the debt we owe all of those
Camera angles, selective footage, media spin do not paint a true full picture. When the emphasis is put on the guys you describe and the rest of the event is never broadcast, it is not be accident. They strive to create the images and impressions which you now express. What is more pertinent here is the anger you see there, in these posts, between the parties and all over our country after 8 years under the regime. This is not blame. It is statement of fact. It's not pretty, granted. But to really undestand what you are looking at takes a little more than a sound byte or a drive-by post.
Considering our national debt is now......... sm
sitting at, what, $3 trillion dollars, I doubt government oversight would be of much benefit to the auto industry. In fact, I kind of feel like the government really has the audacity to ask a private industry to prove a solvent plan when the government can't even balance their own books. Either way, the auto industry is going under. It's just a matter of whether it is now or 6 months from now.
True. We are in debt already. Let's just
and now our country will go bankrupt. Depression, here we come.
True. We are in debt already. Let's just
and then our country will go bankrupt. Depression, here we come. Although some cities are already feeling depression. Cannot wait for our treasury guy who does not know how to do TurboTax is going to say how much more debt (money) we will need coming this week. I betcha the stocks will fall between 300-400.
Wow. New jobs coming. Cannot wait. Maybe a 5',2" and 110 pound woman can apply working on building bridges, paving roads, building a train track from CA to NV. Then the jobs will be finished for me and then what?
She ran our state into debt.
SHE is an extremist.
If you are talking about the war debt, your congress did...
when they voted to go to Iraq. Would not have passed without Dems' support as well.
HC's campaign debt would suggest that
dontchathink?
This plan is not going to affect this debt
growth rate at all, it will continue to grow on a daily basis. This stimulus package will just be added to the total debt. And, actually we do NOT KNOW THAT THIS MONEY WILL BENEFIT people. At this point, we can only pray that it will, we have no other choice. Time will tell.
Will never last. Obama is putting us in debt we may
nm
So, you don't care if we are in debt to the tune
of $9T over the next 10 years????? You really want your children, grandchildren and probably your great-grandchildren to pay for mistakes that did not have to take place in the first place?
You're not wasting tea, you're wasting the little tag on the tea bag. How hard is it to let the government know you are furious with their antics? I just don't agree it's a waste of time.
Some of us (not me yet) are in the less fortunate boat and not getting any help at all while those in power pocket our money. It's time to stop the nonsense and hold those accountable for their actions. It's time to let the government know we don't want to be told how to live anymore. Freedom is not free anymore. It costs a lot of money and our freedoms are slowly being whittled away one by one. I want to see my grandchildren enough those freedoms, not wind up being told how to live, what to eat, where and when to work, etc.
Whew! Sorry. Am venting. I'll get off my soapbox now.
Democratic = surplus - Republican = debt
Based on Congressional accounting rules, at the end of his presidency Clinton reported a surplus of $559 billion.
After 8 years of Bush...As of September 2008, the total U.S. federal debt was approximately $9.7 trillion.
Has anyone watched "Money as Debt" video?
It's a 47 minute animated video you can find on line (I believe it's on You Tube as well as other places.) I watched most of it once and it's just unbelievable what the banks have been doing for YEARS and it explains a lot of why (at least around where I live) there are new banks with names I've never heard of popping up on every corner and in every new strip mall.
It also goes a long way in explaining how these banks are in such trouble and how they're pulling everyone down with them.
Obama will make sure our children pay for this debt
nm
No. I love the country side in Alabama...I'm a country girl...nm
Any ideas on how paying down too much debt could be a terrorist threat?nm
Yeah, lets spend billions, go into more debt while
nm
What a snooty post, no,we have PAID OFF all debt, own our home,,,,sm
outright, thank you, own both our cars, but when you are caring for three kids, taking care of their needs, paying about $300.00 a week on food, I have several serious illnesses with lots of meds, we have high costs here in the North East, AND we are putting money into 401K and retirement, sometimes we DO have to wait a day or two to buy something, it is called A BUDGET, it is called self-restraint in spending, and you, my friend, need some serious counseling in compassion, communication, ....do you even have friends with that kind of attitude??? what is your problem exactly?
Dont talk to me about Debt. Dems wanted loans for
nm
Yes killing this country - have you been out of the country the last 3 months or so
Don't you have a clue as to what is happening in America? Where have you been? Don't you listen to what is happening or are you still drinking the kool-aid. That time is over. Put the aid down and wake up. The country is being destroyed. These have been the worst 4 months in the history of bad presidents. Foreclosures are on the rise, unemployment is on the rise, 3+ trillion more in deficit and on the rise, companies shutting down, Clinton for SoS. Napolitano - one of the biggest tragedies to happen to America. The list goes on and on and on and on.
Dubya is not in office anymore. You think dubya "pulled the trigger", well the O keeps reloading it and continues to pull the trigger.
Bush aides challenge Biden's boasts of Bush slapdowns.
Aides to former President George W. Bush are challenging the veracity of Vice President Joe Biden's claim this week of having privately castigated Bush, who does not remember the incident or an earlier episode in which Biden claims to have similarly rebuked Bush.
Biden spokesman Jay Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.
"The vice president stands by his remarks," Carney told FOX News without elaboration.
Those remarks include a shot that Biden took at Bush on Tuesday.
"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden told CNN, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"
That exchange never took place, according to numerous Bush aides who also dispute a similar assertion by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.
"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"
Bush aides now dispute the veracity of both assertions by Biden.
"I never recall Biden saying any of that," former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said after reviewing detailed notes of Bush's White House meetings with Biden, which include numerous direct quotes from Biden. "I find it odd that he said he met with him alone all the time. I don't think that's true."
Fleischer said that whenever Bush met with Sen. Biden, the meeting also included a congressional counterpart so as to not "antagonize" the House.
Karl Rove, former White House political adviser, also was skeptical of Biden's claim to have spent "a lot of hours alone" with Bush.
"I remember checking on such a Biden exaggeration while at the White House and no one witnessed the meeting and his comments in remotely the same way," Rove said.
Candida P. Wolff, Bush's White House liaison to Capitol Hill, said the only meetings she remembered between Bush and Biden also included other lawmakers. She said such meetings were held in the Cabinet Room or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office, and certainly did not last for "hours."
"The president would never sit through two hours of Joe Biden," Wolff said. "I don't ever remember Biden being in the Oval. He was such a blowhard on all that stuff - there wasn't a reason to bring him in."
Andy Card, former White House chief of staff, reviewed the two Biden claims and said: "This does not ring true to me. I doubt that it happened."
A spokesman for Bush declined comment, although a person close to the former president said Bush does not remember either episode.
This is not the first time the veracity of Biden's assertions has been challenged. In 1988, he dropped out of the presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock. The Washington Post also cited "the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record."
Last year, liberal Slate magazine recalled that "Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect."
Also last year, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.
"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube in July. "Number one, you take all the troops out -- you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."
But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."
Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.
"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."
Seven weeks after claiming to have been "shot at" in Iraq, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."
"If you want to know where AL Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.
"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
Bush aides challenge Biden's boasts of Bush slapdowns.
Aides to former President George W. Bush are challenging the veracity of Vice President Joe Biden's claim this week of having privately castigated Bush, who does not remember the incident or an earlier episode in which Biden claims to have similarly rebuked Bush.
Biden spokesman Jay Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.
"The vice president stands by his remarks," Carney told FOX News without elaboration.
Those remarks include a shot that Biden took at Bush on Tuesday.
"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden told CNN, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"
That exchange never took place, according to numerous Bush aides who also dispute a similar assertion by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.
"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"
Bush aides now dispute the veracity of both assertions by Biden.
"I never recall Biden saying any of that," former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said after reviewing detailed notes of Bush's White House meetings with Biden, which include numerous direct quotes from Biden. "I find it odd that he said he met with him alone all the time. I don't think that's true."
Fleischer said that whenever Bush met with Sen. Biden, the meeting also included a congressional counterpart so as to not "antagonize" the House.
Karl Rove, former White House political adviser, also was skeptical of Biden's claim to have spent "a lot of hours alone" with Bush.
"I remember checking on such a Biden exaggeration while at the White House and no one witnessed the meeting and his comments in remotely the same way," Rove said.
Candida P. Wolff, Bush's White House liaison to Capitol Hill, said the only meetings she remembered between Bush and Biden also included other lawmakers. She said such meetings were held in the Cabinet Room or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office, and certainly did not last for "hours."
"The president would never sit through two hours of Joe Biden," Wolff said. "I don't ever remember Biden being in the Oval. He was such a blowhard on all that stuff - there wasn't a reason to bring him in."
Andy Card, former White House chief of staff, reviewed the two Biden claims and said: "This does not ring true to me. I doubt that it happened."
A spokesman for Bush declined comment, although a person close to the former president said Bush does not remember either episode.
This is not the first time the veracity of Biden's assertions has been challenged. In 1988, he dropped out of the presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock. The Washington Post also cited "the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record."
Last year, liberal Slate magazine recalled that "Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect."
Also last year, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.
"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube in July. "Number one, you take all the troops out -- you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."
But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."
Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.
"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."
Seven weeks after claiming to have been "shot at" in Iraq, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."
"If you want to know where AL Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.
"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
Bush aides challenge Biden's boasts of Bush slapdowns.
Aides to former President George W. Bush are challenging the veracity of Vice President Joe Biden's claim this week of having privately castigated Bush, who does not remember the incident or an earlier episode in which Biden claims to have similarly rebuked Bush.
Biden spokesman Jay Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.
"The vice president stands by his remarks," Carney told FOX News without elaboration.
Those remarks include a shot that Biden took at Bush on Tuesday.
"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden told CNN, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"
That exchange never took place, according to numerous Bush aides who also dispute a similar assertion by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.
"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"
Bush aides now dispute the veracity of both assertions by Biden.
"I never recall Biden saying any of that," former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said after reviewing detailed notes of Bush's White House meetings with Biden, which include numerous direct quotes from Biden. "I find it odd that he said he met with him alone all the time. I don't think that's true."
Fleischer said that whenever Bush met with Sen. Biden, the meeting also included a congressional counterpart so as to not "antagonize" the House.
Karl Rove, former White House political adviser, also was skeptical of Biden's claim to have spent "a lot of hours alone" with Bush.
"I remember checking on such a Biden exaggeration while at the White House and no one witnessed the meeting and his comments in remotely the same way," Rove said.
Candida P. Wolff, Bush's White House liaison to Capitol Hill, said the only meetings she remembered between Bush and Biden also included other lawmakers. She said such meetings were held in the Cabinet Room or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office, and certainly did not last for "hours."
"The president would never sit through two hours of Joe Biden," Wolff said. "I don't ever remember Biden being in the Oval. He was such a blowhard on all that stuff - there wasn't a reason to bring him in."
Andy Card, former White House chief of staff, reviewed the two Biden claims and said: "This does not ring true to me. I doubt that it happened."
A spokesman for Bush declined comment, although a person close to the former president said Bush does not remember either episode.
This is not the first time the veracity of Biden's assertions has been challenged. In 1988, he dropped out of the presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock. The Washington Post also cited "the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record."
Last year, liberal Slate magazine recalled that "Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect."
Also last year, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.
"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube in July. "Number one, you take all the troops out -- you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."
But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."
Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.
"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."
Seven weeks after claiming to have been "shot at" in Iraq, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."
"If you want to know where AL Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.
"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
Bush aides challenge Biden's boasts of Bush slapdowns.
Aides to former President George W. Bush are challenging the veracity of Vice President Joe Biden's claim this week of having privately castigated Bush, who does not remember the incident or an earlier episode in which Biden claims to have similarly rebuked Bush.
Biden spokesman Jay Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.
"The vice president stands by his remarks," Carney told FOX News without elaboration.
Those remarks include a shot that Biden took at Bush on Tuesday.
"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden told CNN, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"
That exchange never took place, according to numerous Bush aides who also dispute a similar assertion by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.
"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"
Bush aides now dispute the veracity of both assertions by Biden.
"I never recall Biden saying any of that," former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said after reviewing detailed notes of Bush's White House meetings with Biden, which include numerous direct quotes from Biden. "I find it odd that he said he met with him alone all the time. I don't think that's true."
Fleischer said that whenever Bush met with Sen. Biden, the meeting also included a congressional counterpart so as to not "antagonize" the House.
Karl Rove, former White House political adviser, also was skeptical of Biden's claim to have spent "a lot of hours alone" with Bush.
"I remember checking on such a Biden exaggeration while at the White House and no one witnessed the meeting and his comments in remotely the same way," Rove said.
Candida P. Wolff, Bush's White House liaison to Capitol Hill, said the only meetings she remembered between Bush and Biden also included other lawmakers. She said such meetings were held in the Cabinet Room or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office, and certainly did not last for "hours."
"The president would never sit through two hours of Joe Biden," Wolff said. "I don't ever remember Biden being in the Oval. He was such a blowhard on all that stuff - there wasn't a reason to bring him in."
Andy Card, former White House chief of staff, reviewed the two Biden claims and said: "This does not ring true to me. I doubt that it happened."
A spokesman for Bush declined comment, although a person close to the former president said Bush does not remember either episode.
This is not the first time the veracity of Biden's assertions has been challenged. In 1988, he dropped out of the presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock. The Washington Post also cited "the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record."
Last year, liberal Slate magazine recalled that "Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect."
Also last year, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.
"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube in July. "Number one, you take all the troops out -- you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."
But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."
Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.
"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."
Seven weeks after claiming to have been "shot at" in Iraq, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."
"If you want to know where AL Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.
"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
Yeah right. Served under Reagan, Bush I and Bush II
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Stop bringing up Bush - this post was not about Bush
I even said we have had some good presidents and some bad ones, but this post was not about Bush. It was about Obama. Yes Bush was one of the worst presidents I'm not arguing with you on that one, but everytime anyone brings up something about our current president they are shot back with Bush this or Bush that and on things that have nothing to do with what the current topic is about. Again, this was not about Bush. It was about Obama.
Oh, more "blame Bush" - except Bush didn't send these out, now did he?
Here's a news flash for you since you apparently haven't heard: BUSH IS NOT IN OFFICE and just today Gallup did a poll showing that THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS THINK OBAMA SHOULD START TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT HAPPENS ON HIS WATCH.
G E T A C L U E.
Bush is gone, YEA!!! and yeah, it could darn well be Bush! LOL.
Chimp boy!! But, the cartoon is NOT about Bush, now is it? Give me a break.
George Bush HIMSELF makes it so easy to make fun of George Bush!!!! oh where would I start, so litt
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this country
Please remember this country and its founding Christian principles were legislated by slave-owners, a practice that was condoned for another 100 years in this country, along with the near-annihilation of this country's indigenous peoples.
The past may not be as rosy as you might paint it to be.
Well, I don't think this country had anything to do with it....
and I don't think Musharraf himself had anything to do with it. That is not to say that radicals within the intelligence services of Pakistan did not have a hand in it. The way it was done, they probably did. With the goal in mind of stopping the elections and causing destabilization...and perhaps a chance to get their hands on nukes, that we all know Pakistan has. Nukes ready to use.
This is a very scary event, folks. Not just for Pakistan...for the world.
Just as an aside....if you really look at what is going on in this country....
Ron Paul is more of a threat than you think. Evangelical Christians want someone pro-life and they are not going to get it with Guiliani...and whether you believe it or not, there are a LOT of them out there. And a lot of young people are looking at Paul, and that is young people on BOTH sides of the political spectrum. And in most all issues, Ron Paul is a strict conservative. And a lot of people out there are VERY sick of tax and spend...even a lot of Democrats...hence the Congress approval rating LESS than Bush's. There is a ground swell going on out there that could very well take over and tsunami the Dem candidate...and if the candidate is Hillary I would be willing to BET it will happen. Your worst nightmare realized. A true conservative in the White House and a Congress to help him turn things around. The purse strings are sure to really tighten (which is what I meant by gravy train about to end...by that I meant the endless tax and spend tax and spend).
Almost makes one giddy thinking about it.
I myself have a couple of real problems with Ron Paul...however...I could get behind him easier than I could Guiliani and so could a LOT of conservatives out there. So....I wouldn't be trashing Ron Paul and hawking that split the vote thing too loud...it could come back to bite you.
Have a good day!
country first
Theme of RNC. Sarah Palin was member of a group who advocated Alaska seceding from United States. Who first? Wno on second?
How are you get along with a country...
run by a man who calls for the annihilation of another country? As Ahmadinejad has said ad nauseam. Sure Mahmoud, let's sit down and talk about obliterating Israel. And that pesky little Death To America slogan...we need to talk about that. Have some tea.
Probably do everything they can to keep this country
from going to h*ll in a hand basket!!!!!
but it's okay with me if the country
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If we had done to their country
We would have been in jail. Can you imagine going to a foreign country, standing on a corner until you got a job, sending your kids to school even though they did not speak the language and expecting to be accommodated, buying a house, car, getting a foreign credit card, not paying taxes, sending the money out of the country, and then trying to say you had rights to citizenship? It really boggles my mind when I think about it. And in my neighborhood we just loved and accepted everyone who came and were gracious and generous. I even took Spanish classes so I could speak to my neighbors. Then they left. They lost their jobs and they lost their homes and they left. The whole neighborhood is devastated, the school closed down and the houses are all empty. The really funny thing is to even get a job for awhile in my area, you had to be able to speak Spanish! What can you say, but that is absolutely insane!
What are you saying here? It's their country
Heads down? What does that mean? This transition is inevitable and I do not see anything wrong with the Iraqis expecting troops to live by the rule of law...their law. Iraqi is a sovereign nation, not an occupied territory (illegal by international standards).
I think everyone in THIS country should take off their
Just saw the video. Cracked me up.
You mean OUR country, don't you?
You may not be ashamed of America, but your love-it-or-leave-it attitude brings shame down on you. Country of diversity. Deal with it.
Please name one country---
Please give me the name of one nation in the history of humankind that grew great on the basis of 'gee, you like me, you reall, really like me.'
I don't think it's a good thing at all to have a pu$$isifed president apologizing for America. He's a weakling, and our country is not safe.
Do you remember the hostages in Iran? Do you remamber how long they were locked up by those monsters?
And the instant we elected a strong leader (Reagan) we got them home. Now we're getting the reverse effect. We've just become the world's byotch.
What's Obama going to do when he's faced with the next attack? Besides blaming Bush once again, I mean.
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