No, it's not complete......still in the courts
Obama and hs lawyer have tried to get this entire thing dismissed but to no avail. I guess this judge can't be bought. We'll see.
So you say, but evidently the courts
I have a tendency to agree with them....so do an overwhelming majority of rational citizens who are just as disgusted as I am over the mental illness that is the driving force behind this lunacy.
It has been release, viewed by the courts
Sme people just want to live inside the lies they create...and often are not able to distinguish reality from fiction. Most children outgrow this but, on the other hand, some never do.
If they cannot get information from the courts, there is nothing to report!
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I love it...when the courts decide against liberals...
they are biased and wrong. When they decide for liberals...they are right on and good old boys. Can we just admit it...you don't care what the facts are. Conservatives are wrong and Bush is wrong...every time posting, every time opening mouth.
If Bush was a Democrat, we would not be having any of these discussions.
Well for starters, he posted his birth certificate on his website. Not to mention, the Director of Health for the State of Hawaii released a statement saying he was born in Hawaii . Also, factcheck.org (a non-partisan and highly credible political fact checking website) investigated it heavily and validated, beyond doubt, that the birth certificate he posted was real. Did I mention that if there were an actual conspiracy surrounding this...it would have to be 47 years in the making? That's right, read it and weep: his birth announcement was posted in a Hawaii newspaper way back in 1961! But if you're really not sure, just remember there have been court cases challenging his citizenship, and every one of them was laughed off the docket.
"That's all pretty compelling. But I got this email that said...."
The email you got is just a crazy, internet-born rumor. It's nothing but a desperate attempt to discredit him. Trust me.
"Yeah, I'm sure you're right...."
Sound familiar? I've personally had a similar conversation several times, but mine ends differently.
"Well for starters, he posted his birth certificate on his website."
Really? Well humor me, because I think this is important enough for us to get our facts straight. So let's explore that. Hawaii doesn't issue "birth certificates". The state offers "Certificates of Live Birth" and "Certifications of Live Birth." What Barack Obama has posted on his website is a "Certification of Live Birth." So let's talk about the difference between the two documents. As you probably know, the document we commonly refer to as a "birth certificate" (more formally called a Certificate of Live Birth) is packed with detail. Detail like the hospital you were born in, the doctor who delivered you along with his/her signature, etc. It looks like a tax form with all the boxes and everything. The Certification of Live Birth is really just a snapshot of that. So which one is more credible? Which one does the state of Hawaii give the "last word" to? Based on information that existed long before this issue came up, let's take a look at one example of what the state of Hawaii has to say on it:
"In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL." ( http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl ).
So if the state of Hawaii itself doesn't accept "Certifications of Live Birth" as a last leg of verification, it's safe to say there's a pretty solid distinction we too can make when comparing a Certificate to a Certification. What Barack Obama posted, was a Certification. What people want to see, is the Certificate. When you say he "posted his birth certificate" on his website, the truth (painful as it may be to hear) is that he posted a much different document that if accurately described, would be a "birth certification" - which is far less credible and far easier to alter.
"That's pretty lean. It's not really a big deal to me because I know it's just a rumor. But still, if you're going to insist there's a question here, I have to tell you....the state of Hawaii released a statement saying he was born in Hawaii . They have the 'Certificate' you're talking about, and they proved it was authentic. Are you saying they're in on this crazy conspiracy?"
I'm not saying they're involved in a conspiracy, or even that one exists. But I'm not sure you can honestly say you actually read that statement. Here, take a look:
Director of Health for the State of Hawaii , Chiyome Fukino: "There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's official birth certificate. State law (Hawai'i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record. Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai'i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures. No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai'i."
Now you tell me, where in that statement does it say anything about where he was born? Public officials are very careful when they release these statements. They carve their words out precisely and check and double check to make sure what they release is accurate and viable. I have to be honest, it wasn't until this statement came out that I became more concerned by the citizenship question. If you actually read it, it's plain to see that as it relates to his birth, the statement really only "proves" 3 things: 1) Barack Obama was born, 2) proof of that birth exists on paper, and 3) their office is in receipt of that paper. An official statement with a lot of affirmatives about requirements and procedures means nothing if they can't find the words, "originating from Hawaii " or "was born in Honolulu " or "as documented in the Certification he has already released". Now maybe it was an accident that Dr. Fukino was able to authenticate virtually every scrap of it's existence - except the part everyone is asking about. However, pressed on this, there has been ample opportunity for her to revise or expand her statement, and she still to this day has not done so.
"Wait a minute, Hank. Didn't factcheck.org already investigate this whole thing. You're just grasping at straws. What do you know, that they don't?!"
I guess the first thing I'd tell you is that, on this particular subject, factcheck has already missed a lot of "facts", and even created a few of their own. You know that statement we just read from Hawaii 's Director of Health? Well this is what factcheck had to say about it: "Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu " ( http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html ). Did you see that in the statement? I didn't. If this site's only claim is to report facts in a non-partisan manner, how much credibility can we really give them when they start making up their own, very partisan and very inaccurate facts? They also failed to make the distinction between the Certificate and the Certification. And to be fair, factcheck.org is a product of the Annenberg Foundation. You may remember, Barack Obama worked for Annenberg as a spoke in their umbrella. If you look at the actual facts, this is a slight conflict of interest on factcheck.org's part - which might help to explain their not having met their own obligation of getting the facts right. An accident on their part? Maybe. But they too have had plenty of time to correct it, but chose instead to close the book on this one...fabricated facts and all.
"Look....if there was any truth to this, it would have meant that Barack's parents and a Hawaiian newspaper were in on it too. And they were in on it 47 years ago! There's a birth announcement in a Hawaiian newspaper for crying out loud."
Okay now this is one of my favorites. So now rather than authenticating citizenship by way of formal, long-form, vault copies of actual Certificates of Live Birth - we are relying on birth announcements in newspapers? Let me ask you something: If you and your wife live in Ohio , but you gave birth while visiting Florida , is there a legal or logical premise that says you're bound to put that birth announcement in a Floridian newspaper? Or, would you likely send news of the birth back home, to your town-of-residence, where more friends and family would see the good news? If Barack Obama was born outside of the U.S. , there doesn't have to be a "conspiracy" for his family to have sent word of that birth back to their hometown newspaper.
"Hmm. Okay. Well newsflash Hank. This has already been challenged in court and the judges dismissed it as frivolous and ridiculous."
Actually, this has been heard in a handful of courts. The judges by-in-large dismissed the cases, you're right. But the majorative reason was not merit, but rather standing. "Standing", as an act of dismissal in the courts, is a technicality. The judges said that individual citizens did not have standing to ask that the Constitution be upheld. This raises a pretty clear question: If "We The People" don't have standing to ask that the contract we hold with our government be upheld (ie the Constitution), who does? There are several other cases still pending; at least 12 confirmed. One of those is actually active on the Supreme Court's docket, as we speak. Another has been brought in California by 2008 candidate for the Presidency, Alan Keyes...and several of California 's electors (members of the electoral college who will officially vote our President in on December 15, 2008).
I don't think too many grounded people could say, "I know the answer." For instance, I am not saying Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen. I'm not saying he was born in Kenya . I'm not saying he renounced his U.S. citizenship when he moved to Indonesia and attended school there (a right reserved only to Indonesian citizens - in a country that didn't recognize any dual citizenship.) I'm not saying that due to his father's citizenship at a time when Kenya was still part of the British empire , Barack, as a son, was automatically and exclusively afforded British citizenship. I'm not saying the video footage of his Kenyan grandmother claiming to have been in the delivery room, in Kenya , when he was born, is necessarily "evidence." I'm also not saying he was born in Hawaii . What I'm saying is, none of us have these answers. I'm saying, there is an outstanding question here - that only Barack Obama can answer. And rather than answer it, having promised a new sense of transparency throughout his campaign, his course of action has been to spend time, money and the resources of at least 3 separate law firms....fighting to keep any and all documentation off the discovery table and out of the courtroom. It is a well known legal fact that if you have documentation/evidence that will help you - you are quick to produce it. If that documentation will hurt you, however, you fight to keep it out of court. Let's be fair. He was quick and happy to give documentation he claimed validated and authenticated his citizenship to a website - but is fighting to keep that same documentation out of the courts. If that document really does authenticate and validate everything, why not just hand it over? Why fight?
"Alright Hank. Well MY question is, if there was any validity to this, why isn't the media covering it?"
I have no idea.
As an Independent and initial Barack Obama supporter, I can safely say that contrary to what many think, asking these questions is not an attempt by Republicans to win a technicality-laden seat in the White House. Republicans lost. They were due the loss. Most know that. The seat will ultimately go to a Democrat. But if there is truth to Barack Obama not being able to formally prove his a) natural born, and/or b) properly maintained citizenship statuses - we as Americans must not gloss past it. If there is truth to it, this will represent the greatest fraud ever perpetrated on the American people and our most coveted process of democracy. If there is truth to it, this will demonstrate a wanton and relentless pursuit for power which left President-Elect Obama trapsing all over our Constitution - in pursuit of a position that ironically and foremost swears him to uphold and protect that same document.
There is much unanswered here. I know it is very embarassing for the Democratic party to have allowed what might be such an incredibly elementary oversight to occur - but nothing good that Barack Obama might do in the next 4-8 years, will be able to repair the damage done by setting a precedent that affords anyone in our Country the room and right to trample the contract "We The People" hold with our government, let alone a person who is asking to be our next President.
"Everyone will riot if they kick him out." We can't be intimidated by that. The people of our country elected a black man for the Presidency. Nothing can change that. If it turns out his entire campaign and effort were based on fraud, that reality is still 100% independent of the color-blind lenses our nation took to the polls. So if we bow down to the potential for race riots - recognizing that we did in fact (perhaps ignorantly relating to his eligibility) initially vote for him, we are only fostering a new evolution of racism that is nurtured by intimidation and complicit with failing to incite accountability over a man, people and process - simply based on color.
Very few people know any of this is even occurring. Those who do are greatly divided. Some are sure Barack Obama has acted fraudulently, some are sure he hasn't. Neither group can be sure of anything though, until Barack Obama himself answers the question for us. We all show our "birth certificates" (Certificates of Live Birth) several times over the course of our lives. Why should someone running for the Presidency be an exeption to that expectation, or even a more fiercely vetted recipient of it? More questionably, how can we as a government, media and nation - allow someone running for the Presidency to be an exception to that expectation?
The behavior, mostly (to my personal dismay) for his part, has only fueled speculation. Why factcheck.org? Why not a governing body like the Federal Election Commission, Board of Elections or even the DNC? When a governing body did finally inject itself in to this matter, why were they only able to do so vaguely...leaving the real question entirely untouched and unanswered? Why spend more than $800K fighting this in court, at a time when our nation is in economic crisis and that money could be better spent in far more charitable ways; when it could ultimately and universally be resolved for the small $12.00 fee required by Hawaii for a copy of the actual Certificate of Live Birth? In the spirit of transparency, why refuse to release this basic document for inspection? In the spirit of unity, why leave so many Americans alienated and debating the matter - when all most of them want is affirmation so that people on both sides of the debate can move to more healthy and productive lines of communication?
It was opinionated that he had left this door open prior to the election, so that those who opposed him would be led down a blind and pointless alley. The general election is over though. And still, he offers nothing to end the speculation.
By the time I am done with the conversation I outlined above, those I am speaking with inevitably return to what I have typically found to be their first and last refutation....
"He must have been properly vetted. Right....?"
I don't know. And without support for that contention coming directly from the Federal Election Commission, the Board of Elections or (ideally) Barack Obama himself, neither does anyone else.
"This is ridiculous" doesn't count as a refutation. Simply, answer the question with the simple documentation that is being asked of you in double digit numbers of court rooms across the country, including the Supreme Court. It may go away. It may be dismissed again based on standing. But President-Elect Obama's refusal to quell what have become very real questions about this, will only serve to leave many good Americans who hope to vigorously support their President...with far too much doubt to be able to do so. Production of a Certificate of Live Birth is a very small price to pay for unity.
I'm sorry, that is a separation I cannot make. My faith and religious convictions are part of the whole person that I am. I vote my conscience. I want political leaders who reflect my morality. I also happen to believe there are many Christians out there like me. There is no "separation" of church and state for me, which by the way was a concept (nowhere specifically mentioned in the constitution) meant to protect the church from the government more so than the government from the church.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that commercial. There are condom commercials, "personal" lubricant commercials, and penis and sexual performance enhancing commercials -- why would anyone be offended by a pro-life commercial? The fact that anyone would be offended is a testament to just how twisted society has become!
We are all God's children. nm
.
My children.
My children are grown now, well into their 40s. I have four wonderful grandchildren, whom I adore, the oldest just turned 18. Our nuclear family puts God first and we follow his teachings. Abortion would never be something any one of us would contemplate for even the slightest bit of time. My children and grandchildren do not do this out of fear of reaction from the family but out of love for God and his creations. We consider abortion murder. It isn't something we would ever do. I know that the left spins this daily as being fear of retribution. It's too bad that they have lost the ability to see that there are those of us who grieve for the loss of human life, no matter what stage it is in when it ends.
i certainly would. I f you do that to children then you s/m
should have NO rights at all.
do you have children?
christians are not perfect. I don't know of one who claims to be. Yes, things do start at home but that does not mean that adults and children don't make poor choices. I've not heard anyone in the McCain campaign say they are "very religious." Besides, being "religious" doesn't necessarily mean Christian and being a Christian does not mean perfect.
Also, I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth, far from it actually, but I have worked for what I have. I don't expect someone to provide my health insurance or pay my mortgage. I'm supporting McCain.
Tell me what do YOU consider a WONDERFUL FAMILY?
so how do you think that children
have abortions without the parents ever finding out, if they receive a bill in the mail? It has to be paid for by someone other than the parents, or else they would know about it. perhaps not your particular clinic, but it happens.
Wow, children, get over it already...
it's a cartoon, plain and simple. You are the ones making something out of nothing. Find something else to rant and rave over.
Most had their children taken...
away from them and were shot when they tried to escape......it was a horrific event without a doubt. Some couldn't bear to watch their children die so the opted to die to. BUT, I refuse to have someone tell me what I can say and what I can't say because it offends them.
May I ask how many children do you have?..nm
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Neither can little children, and look how many have
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I actually have 2 children....
And I happen to believe that there is alot more to a relationship than sex.
What about the children
who have been killed by homosexuals and they get very little press? You feel this way because of your son. As a Christian we are to speak out against this, even if it is our children doing it. My children understood when they were young that this was wrong and it was their choice if they did do it. I would NEVER support that choice. This has nothing to do with my head in the sand. It has to do with reality and doing the right thing. Most people who have family members who commit this sin choose to have their head in the sand and ignore what Christ tells us. I won't be one of them.
So you are actually saying that children are not autonomous. sm
That's absurd. And of course, we hear so many cries for Johnson's daughters to join when we were in Vietnam. Not. Because Republicans don't do things like that. Liberals do. That entire thread is one big joke.
They are his children, grown or not. sm
It is their choice and I don't think they should sign up because of the security reasons, just my opinion. And, yes I think he would talk them out of it.
Abuse of children and the right
Hold on just a minute....from your post you are making it sound like conservatives and the right condone molestation of children. If that is what you were implying you are absolutely wrong. Please, please, please do not categorize all Christians and conservatives with the wacko extreme cults that dare do these things to children. I believe a few weeks ago there was a long thread on the C-board about child molestation. Personally, I think anyone who hurts a child should die...period. If it's sexual molestation the very least that should happen to a male offender is castration...I'd prefer the death penalty...
Again, this implied generalization that all conservatives are racists, homophobes, and child molesters is absolutely wrong.
actually what you name your children speaks
What about the lady that named her daughter Emer Gency because that's the sign she saw going into the hospital? Sure this may be folklore but if you are an MT you know like I do people make really poor choices when it comes to naming thier kids and I would never elect one of those braniacs VP!!!
Duh yourself. Every time I have seen her, her children ...
are standing behind her. WHen Michelle Obama is at work, she ain't with her children. Duh. You think if Obama is elected she is going to knit sweaters and raise her kids? The White House has a huge staff. I don;t think she will be firing them and cooking for her kids like Palin did in Alaska.
All that being said, you are being really petty and bringing up stuff that has nothing to do with her ability to be VP, or President should that happen. You are insinuating a woman is not capabale. I believe she is.
And also...you should be very careful about being so judgmental about teenage pregnancies and family values and responsibility and judgment attached to it...You are alienating, demeaning, and slandering a huge portion of your candidate's base. Do you think they would be happy to hear your assessment of their families having no values or judgment?
well educating children
about S-E-X at an appropriate age level IS the right thing to do. Unless your body is d-i-r-t-y. Unless you have dirty pillows under your blouse. Da doop.
health care plans. My husband pays a portion just like everyone else. We hardly use the health coverage, only for minor sinus infections, and I did have a hysterectomy last year.
There are others walking around that have had multiple surgeries including bypass, and they pay the same amount towards the plan.
How is that fair? I feel the contribution should be paid on the usage, per se, and not so much (everyone is equal) because we are not. I had a friend that had a lap band (fully covered), thyroid surgery, neck surgery, and goes the doctor every other week for something or other. So, when we worked together, we both paid the same; yet, I did not go to the doctor or have any surgeries.
Is that fair? Why not look at something like that for cost effectiveness? Would this turn people away from receiving the healthcare they need (not likely)?
were energized by the election. Even if they had political views different from mine and my live-in BF, they would not be afraid to tell me. I allow them to think for themselves.
my children are citizens
they were born in Germany yet they are US citizens and German citizens. They have dual citizenship. they are US citizens and they have a born abroad certificate which is the proof of their US citizenship which is exactly the same as a b/c. you guys crack me up. and no i am not an O fan, but i think that this would have been the FIRST thing that McCain and Palin would have pointed out had all this crap been true.
I have children and I can understand
women who give birth to a child conceived in rape. I certainly could understand their wanting to give the child up for adoption and then again, I could understand why they would find the love in their hearts to keep the child.
.......Then there was the recent move to end a long-established practice in the Defense Department of selling fired brass ammunition casings to companies that remanufacture them into ammo for sale to law enforcement and private gun owners. The new policy required the military cartridge brass to be destroyed.
The Defense Logistics Agency, the Pentagon’s largest combat support agency and the organization that helps dispose of materiel and equipment no longer needed by the military, classified small-arms cartridge cases as "sensitive munitions" as part of an overall effort to make sure national security is not jeopardized by the sale of any Defense property.
Given that this administration is all abuzz with going green, crushing a perfectly recyclable product runs afoul of the "reduce, reuse, recycle" mantra of environmentalists. It’s difficult not to assume that someone new in Defense wanted to reduce the national supply of ammunition by removing the ability to reuse fired brass.
Gun owners across the country have been hard-pressed to find ammo — and that’s not just survivalists who are into hoarding (although some of that is undoubtedly going on). Texas hunters and ranchers, for example, who use .223 and .308 ammo to rid their property of destructive feral hogs — trust me, you don’t want to go after one of these with a .22 — were scrambling to find it and then, when they could locate some, the price was outrageous
Hilter's children
s/l this volunteerism is like Hilter's children. He did the same thing. Put children in camps to be better ayrans. How do I know this? Every bit of it is on the History channel! Not a new plan by any means by Obama. Just rewired.
going to "protect" them and how are you going to handle when they tell you they are gay? Don't think it will happen to you? Are you in their classrooms listening and approving of what they are taught, which is that homosexual "love" is normal? How are you going to "protect" them when they made their choice when they tell you they have AIDS?
What's love got to do with it? Do you have any understanding how many relationships a "gay" person will have over a lifetime? Is that what you call love? How do you protect your child when you approve of perversion?
I don't know if the law changed, but the mother is also in Mexico. Don't know if she went voluntarily or if she was deported, too. If she went voluntarily, then I feel she really didn't put her children first.
Like I said in my earlier post, I think the children should have gone with them even though they are American citizens. Why let the eldest take care of the younger ones, I think ages 15 and 11.
I actually agree with you, I don't think the president's children should
sign up, or fight in Iraq, this would be a terrorist dream to have the president's daughters as a hostage...BUT the truth is there are usually few if any, on the left or right, who are willing to sacrifice their children for the things that they think are soooo noble enough for our children to sacrifice themselves for. I think this is the whole point. My thing is don't ask your countrymen to do anything that you wouldn't do yourself, left or right.
They are not children. They are grown women.
It's their choice. Can you say with certainty that if one of them or both of them came to George Bush and said I am joining the Marines he would talk them out of it? I just don't see it that way. At any rate, again, they have a mind of their own.
Careful what you say, God's children might be listening!
The religious right's version of freedom of speech. Scary, huh?
LAWRENCE, Kansas, Dec. 6, 2005 (AP) A Kansas professor whose planned course on creationism and intelligent design was canceled after he sent e-mails deriding Christian conservatives was taken to the hospital Monday following what he said was a beating.
University of Kansas religious studies professor Paul Mirecki told the Lawrence Journal-World that two men who beat him were making references to the class that was to be offered for the first time this coming spring. Originally called Special Topics in Religion: Intelligent Design, Creationism and other Religious Mythologies, the course was canceled last week at Mirecki's request.
The class was added after the Kansas Board of Education decided to include more criticism of evolution in science standards for elementary and secondary students.
I didn't know them, Mirecki said of his alleged assailants, but I'm sure they knew me.
One recent e-mail from Mirecki to members of a student organization referred to religious conservatives as fundies, and said a course describing intelligent design as mythology would be a nice slap in their big fat face. Mirecki has apologized for those comments.
Lt. Kari Wempe, a spokeswoman for the Douglas County Sheriff's Department, said a deputy was dispatched to Lawrence Memorial Hospital after receiving a call around 7 a.m. regarding a battery.
She said Mirecki reported he was attacked around 6:40 a.m. in rural Douglas County south of Lawrence. Mirecki told the Journal-World he was driving to breakfast when he noticed the men tailgating him in a pickup truck.
I just pulled over hoping they would pass, and then they pulled up real close behind, he said. They got out, and I made the mistake of getting out.
He said the men beat him on the head, shoulders and back with their fists, and possibly a metal object.
Wempe said Mirecki drove himself to the hospital.
Mirecki told the student newspaper, The University Daily Kansan, that he spent between three and four hours at the hospital. He said his injuries included a broken tooth.
I'm mostly shaken up, and I got some bruises and sore spots, he told the Journal-World.
Wempe said Mirecki described the suspects as two white men between 30 and 40 years of age. One of the men was described as wearing a red visor-like ball cap and wool gloves. Mirecki said the men left in a large pickup truck.
Wempe said the department will investigate every aspect, but couldn't discuss specifics.
Andrew Stangl, president of the Society for Open Minded Atheists and Agnostics at the university, described the attack as bizarre and terrifying. He said Mirecki, who is the group's faculty adviser, is adamant that the alleged beating is related to the recently canceled course.
That absolutely shocked me, he said, because people don't do that in a civilized society.
Sen. Kay O'Connor, a Mirecki critic, said there is no excuse for someone physically assaulting the professor - regardless of their politics.
I have zero tolerance for thugs, she said. There is never an excuse to behave in such a manner. This was just thugs. They used a flimsy excuse, if they had one, to behave as thugs. They can talk about the ID (intelligent design) course if they want to, but that's not an excuse.
I don't know whether you are a Republican or Democrat (or neither), but I have found that many Republicans are against this bill. The ironic thing to me is that many Republicans are pro-life. Many care so much about saviing the babies in the womb, but where is the concern for little children who are suffering? I think it's hypocritical for one to say that they care so much about bringing this life into the world and giving it a chance to live, and yet if that same child gets leukemia it's on it's own because God forbid our taxes might get raised or something.
Sometimes you just have to DO THE RIGHT THING. I believe the right thing is health insurance for all American children. What would Jesus do?
Okay, this is about as disturbing as it gets. I came across this thread on the Democratic Underground website:
Source: AFP
Agence France-Presse
BAGHDAD -- US troops are holding nearly 950 children and teenagers in a military prison at a Baghdad base, some as young as 10, a top commander said Monday.
Brigadier General Michael Nevin of US military police said many of these youngsters, mainly 15, 16 or 17 years of age are illiterate and have been detained for planting bombs and even for "picking up a gun and firefighting."
...
"These juveniles have been involved in something that is perceived as a security threat to Iraq or coalition forces," Nevin told Agence France-Presse during a tour of Camp Cropper.
...
"In January we had around 100 juveniles. Now we have around 950," Nevin said.
...
One of the commanders at Camp Cropper, Lieutenant Colonel Malcolm McMullen, said the juveniles were now part of a wide-ranging educational program launched by the military.
"Many of them come from broken homes with no education," he said.
So, curious as to what type of educational program launched by the military, as I thought it funny this little tibit of information was left out, I came across this:
Obama's and Palin's. They are young and this is a different world now than it was when JFK was in and Carter too.
Though, I would think being a mother to very young children and being a VP is going to be a whole different situation than being the Governor. I would think there is going to be a lot more travel involved with a VP than Gov., but I might be wrong. Never having done either job, I can't really say.
I'm not saying that Obama's kids are going to be better off if he is elected either. I just don't know how used to their mom being away that Palin's kids are as opposed to Obama's kids. They've had a little more time to adjust. And, as sexist as it is, most people still believe that the primary parenting duty is on the mother. I am not saying that is what I think (it's 50/50 IMO), but I do believe the majority feel that way.
Hmm, pictures I saw showed her children there with her.
There are people who travel for business and take their families with them, but they don't bring the family to their business meetings. DUH? What grade are you in? If you're going to get into a battle of wits, please at least come armed.
So you still think that children are fair game...
I would say that definitely has to do with bottom feeders. But if Obama's followers continue this...it will not help his case with the average American and he knows it. He is asking you not to deep six is campaign. I, however, say go for it. Smear and fear, go after Palin and her pregnant daughter. get right down there on the bottom and chomp.
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