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I'm in Ohio. It's aimed at college students for O. nm Actually, it was the Ohio State Supreme court, not... the Supreme Court of the United States. That was then appealed to the 6th US Circuit Court of Appeals, who upheld the state supreme court ruling. I guess that puts you and Sarah on about the same footing as far as the Supreme court? Just asking. FYI. Joe the unlicensed required to be licensed in Ohio. Joe the unlicensed's 15 minutes has raised the ire of Tom Joseph, business manager for Local 50 of the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters, and Service Mechanics of Ohio, who claimed that Joe didn’t undergo any apprenticeship training. "When you have guys going out there with no training whatsoever, it’s a little disreputable to start with," Mr. Joseph said. "We’re the real Joe the Plumber." "This individual has got no schooling, no licenses, he’s never been to a training program, union or nonunion, in the United States of America," Mr. Joseph said. Working for a licensed plumber does not quite cut it. Wondering if your husband has read Obama's plan for small business, for example the Making Work Pay tax credit (not a rate cut, a direct tax credit)? There is a lot of information there under issues and subheading economics. There is a section there on small business. Not a good idea to buy into the spreading the wealth mantra without that information. The exposure of Joe the Plumber as a sham makes one raise the question of his autheticity and the possibility of his being a McCain campaign plant at that rally. The bigger picture on this is that Joe himself is being exploited by McCain's campaign (currently not something he is enjoying, having lost his privacy) in their assertions that they will look after the interests of the working class. Flies in the face of the fact that McCain himself has not even spoken the phrase middle class out of his own mouth. The "welfare" rhetoric characterizing spread the wealth as socialism sounds a bit hostile toward the middle class...the economic class of most small business owners he claims to be so concerned about. I heard that too, in Ohio, one of the many states of Acorn They will try to steal the election. There are some that have voted in Ohio...i.e.....the student back in Just curious...is it true that in Ohio there is no law against voting more than once? nm x Excuse me! Get the facts. I live in Ohio. sm In Ohio one can buy soda with food stamps. Obviously the rules aren't the same everywhere. Ohio GOP fundraiser sentenced 18 years...see link nm Bailout is Not the Solution, Marcy Kaptur, D-Ohio http://www.youtube.com/watch? No doubt this is a centrist Democrat. Being Republican, I didn't even know if any centrists were left now that they've been hijacked by moveon, who has openly bragged about owning the Dems. Anyway, this is really something. Incidentally, the Dems had enough votes to pass this thing day one. They know better than to do that and end up being responsible. This is why we're subjected to this dog & pony show by them now. And to think, they are not only working on a filibuster-proof election and an Obama presidency. Can y'all afford this tax ticket? I know I can't. Media in the tank for O,early voting in Ohio nm Hey! I live in Ohio! I didn't get a free Coke! LOL! * Ruling on Ohio voter fraud.....hmmmmm http://thurbersthoughts.blogspot.com/2008/10/breaking-federal-court-says-ohio.html He was right here in my hometown (Lima, Ohio) Friday evening (nm) nnnn Yes, I just bet you are surprised. nm x Thank you! I'm not a bit surprised unfortunately. Why am I not surprised? Is anyone really surprised by the ***leak*** of the NIE document. I remember Bob Graham, senator from my state, Florida, standing on the floor of congress and predicting this almost verbatim. Many of us agreed with him. Many who did not have changed their minds over the years. I don't find any of this **breaking news.** Now, why am I not surprised? But as a self-professed "Bush fan", I would expect nothing less. Are you surprised? sm Just more of O's "transparent" tactics. When the questions get tough, he hides behind his standard "I had no idea that was going on" statement. I was always taught and have always believed that you are known by the company you keep. All of his associates, past and present, have been crooks, liars, bomb builders and just basic scum bags. I would be surprised if it did. At this point, the House Repubs need to propose a new bill, since the old one was too unpopular for even the Dems to sell to their constituency. But the Dems have to save face by not letting the Repubs get credit for putting together a more favorable bill. I suspect in the end it will be a bill quite similar to the one already voted down, with a few more consessions in the taxpayers' favor. Of course, both sides will take credit. Both sides will blame the other for the crisis in the first place. And both will be corret. Why am I not surprised www.BlackBoxVoting.org Also, watch the DVD "Uncounted" -- a real eye-opener. The link below is to one of the Blackboxvoting forums Ha ha! Why am I not surprised?! If nothing else, this election campaign sure has been ENTERTAINING! I'm not surprised to hear you bring God into it. You're who Julian Jaynes was talking about when he talked about the unevolved faction of humanity, the ones who have to have literal interpretations of the Bible because they have an under-developed consciousness and have to recreate the "voice of the chief." If Jesus knew about the offensive slime you spew, he would never stop puking. And by the way, Obama has said a number of times that he will stop giving tax breaks to companies that offshore. I, for one, am not surprised by this...sm I always thought that Obama was a socialist, about two steps from being a marxist, on his way to being a communist. If true, this goes to show exactly who and what Obama is about. Chilling, indeed. No wonder I can't believe a word that comes out of his mouth. Whenever he's questioned on certain issues, he's too busy trying to sound like not what he is, but still fails miserably. He sounds like someone hiding something, and it's not pretty. I'm not surprised you envision and embrace the negative extreme of everything, given the whole fire & brimstone thing. Good grief. It must be miserable being locked inside that kind of paranoia. You have my sympathy. I would be surprised if you had not heard at least a few names on this list, which is, by no means, exhaustive. Many of the most famous serial killers (e.g., Jeffrey Dahmer, Andrew Cunanan, John Wayne Gacy, Henry Lee Lucas, Ottis Toole, etc.) were homosexuals, but they became widely known due to the nature of their crimes or the identities of their victims, not because they in any way represent serial killers generally. To name a few: Gay/Homosexual Serial Killers Name # of People Killed Year Killer's Home Location of Murders Notes Birth death Jeffrey Dahmer 17 1978, 1988-91 Milwaukee Milwaukee and Chicago homosexual cannibal. He was killed by another inmate while in prison. 21 May 1960 28 November 1994 Andrew Cunanan 5 1997 San Diego, Calif. Minnesota; Chicago, IL; South Beach, FL killed fashion designer Gianni Versace 31 August 1969 23 July 1997 Gilles DE Rais 300+ 1430s France France associate of Joan of Arc Luis Alfredo Garavito 140+ Colombia Colombia Gay serial killer who murdered over 140 boys in Columbia. 25 January 1957 Randy Steven Kraft 65 (est.) 1971 to 1983 Oregon, Michigan, etc. "Score Card Killer" Michael Swango 35 - 60 1983-97 Ohio, Illinois, New York, South Dakota, Virginia "Doctor of Death" -- killed hospital patients Andrei Chikatilo 52 until 1992 Russia Russia Fritz Haarmann 40 (est.) until 1924 Germany Germany "Butcher Of Hanover" John Wayne Gacy 33 until 1978 Chicago Chicago bisexual; 27 of his victims (young boys he seduced) were found buried in crawlspace under his house. Executed in Joliet, IL. 17 March 1942 10 May 1994 Patrick Wayne Kearney 28+ 1968 to 1977 Redondo Beach, Calif. gay cruising areas of Hollywood David D. Hill 28? 1968 to 1977 Redondo Beach, Calif. Hollywood Patrick Kearney's lover; confessed to being co-killer with Kearney, but police weren't sure about the extent of his involvement Hans Grans 27+ until 1924 Germany Germany accommplice and love of Haarmann, the "Butcher Of Hanover" Wayne Williams 27 1979-81 Atlanta Atlanta Gay serial killer who preyed mostly on young black male hustlers. 27 May 1958 Dean Corll 27 1960s to 1973 Ft. Wayne, Indiana; later Houston, TX Houston, Texas Elmer Wayne Henley 27 1960s to 1973 Ft. Wayne, Indiana; later Houston, TX Houston, Texas Bisexual. Victims were young boys who he kidnapped and tortured. 9 May 1956 David Owen Brooks 27 1960s to 1973 Ft. Wayne, Indiana; later Houston, TX Houston, Texas Donald Harvey 25 - 40 (est.) 1970-71 London, Kentucky Kentucky Juan Corona 25 1971 From Mexico; moved to Yuba City, CA in 1950s Yuba City, Calif. Born in Mexico. All of his victims were men that he first raped, and then killed with a machete over the span of six weeks. Presently resides in Corcoran State Prison. Juan Corona's brother is Natividad, the gay, owner of the Guadalajara cafe in Marysville, CA. 1934 Adolfo de Jesus Constanzo 21 (est.) until 1989 Matamoros, Mexico Matamoros, Mexico "Matamoros Cult Killer" Larry Eyler 19 1980s Chicago Illinois and Indiana Huang Yong 17+ 2001-2003 Henan Province, China Henan Province, China Gay. Executed. Murdered boys that he flirted with and picked up at internet cafes. Saved their belts as souvenirs. His 18th victim escaped, leading to his arrest. 1974 26 December 2003 Dennis Nilsen 16 1978-83 U.K. U.K. Marcelo Costa de Andrade 14 until 1991 Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Rio de Janeiro, Brazil William Bonin 12+ 1979-80 Orange County, Calif. Orange County, Calif. Henry Lee Lucas 12+ 1970s and 80s Most in Texas, Southeastern U.S. 23 August 1936 12 March 2001 Ottis Toole 12+ 1970s and 80s West Coast, Florida, etc. accomplice of Henry Lee Lucas Vaughn Greenwood 11+ 1974-75 Los Angeles Los Angeles Richard Speck 8+ 1966 Chicago Chicago married, bisexual Cayetano Hernandez 8 1963 Yerba Buena, Mexico Mexico Eleazor Solis 8 1963 Monterey, Mexico Mexico David Bullock 6+ 1981-82 New York City New York Vernon Butts 6+ 1979-80 Calif. Orange County, Calif. accomplice of William Bonin Paul Bateson 6 ? (est.) 1977-78 New York City New York City Marc Dutroux 6 1995-1996 Belgium Belgium Bisexual. He is unusual among gay serial killers, in that his victims were all girls, who he kidnapped and tortured before killing. One of most notorious serial killers in Belgium's history. 6 November 1956 Michael Terry 6 1980-86 Atlanta Georgia, Ohio, South Carolina Orville Lynn Majors 6 Indiana Vermillion County Hospital, Indiana Charles Cohen 5+ Delaware Delaware, San Francisco, New York, Miami, and New Orleans Arthur Gary Bishop 5 1984 Utah Utah Utah serial killer of young boys. Years before his murder spree, in 1978, he had been excommunicated from the LDS Church. Bishop was an active homosexual and was no longer a member of the LDS Church when he became a serial killer. Executed in Utah State Prison. He said of his crimes, "With great sadness and remorse, I realize that I allowed myself to be misled by Satan. Pornography was not the only negative influence in my life, but its effect on me was devastating. I am a homosexual pedophile convicted of murder, and pornography was a determining factor in my downfall." 1951 10 June 1988 Michael Lupo 4+ 1986 from Italy London Peter Moore 4 1995 north Wales north Wales Westley Allan Dodd 3+ Washingon Washington, Oregon David P. Brown (a.k.a. Nathaniel Bar-Jonah) 3+ 2000 Massachusetts Montana David Paul Brown. Victims were all young boys. 15 February 1957 Charles Manson 3+ 1968-72 Los Angeles Los Angeles Bisexual. One of nation's most famous serial killers. Murdered actress Sharon Tate, the wife of film director Roman Polanski. Deeply interested in the occult. 12 November 1934 David Edward Maust 5+ 1981; 2003 Germany; Galveston, TX (1981); Hammond, IL (2003) Gay. Killed teenage boys, usually by stabbing 5 April 1954 Bruce Davis 2+ 1968-72 Los Angeles Los Angeles Charles Manson accomplice Erik Menendez 2 20 August 1989 Beverly Hills, CA Beverly Hills, CA with his straight brother Lyle, Erik killed his parents (Jose Menendez and Kitty Menendez). Their trial was a major national news story. 27 November 1971 Although homosexual murderers of single victims are too numerous to list here, a number of particularly famous ones include: Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb (the wealthy and academically bright gay Chicago couple who murdered a boy in 1924 just for fun; their story became one of the nation's most famous murder cases, and was the basis for many movies, including Hitchcock's film "Rope"); Armin Meiwes (the sexually deviant German cannibal known as "Der Metzgermeister" - The Master Butcher, who met a victim over the Internet who he ate and killed); John E. du Pont (the gay member of the wealthy du Pont famil who shot Olympic wrestler David Schultz to death); Gary Hirte (Waupaca, WI high school senior who admitted to killing 37-year-old substitute teacher Glenn Kopitske); Karla Homolka (Canadian lesbian who murdered her own sister). Other notable gay violent criminals include Kenneth Parnell (paid $500 to "purchase" a young black boy named Steven Stayner, who he then raped and kidnapped); John Wojtowicz (whose bank robbery inspired the movie Dog Day Afternoon). Serial Killers who were Lesbians Name # of People Killed Year Killer's Home Location of Murders Notes Magdalena Solis 8 1963 Monterey, Mexico Mexico Aileen Wuornos 7+ 1989-90 south of Daytona, Florida Florida killed male "johns" Tyria Moore 7+ 1989-90 south of Daytona, Florida Florida killed male "johns" Catherine Wood 6 Grand Rapids, MI Grand Rapids, MI nurse who killed patients Gwen Graham 6 Grand Rapids, MI Grand Rapids, MI nurse who killed patients Why am I not surprised...(sm) The pub way of thinking on this is to go ahead and let those workers lose their jobs, then save the auto industry, and then they can hire back those workers or others without any job security, benefits, etc... Under republican rule, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer (and that obviously hasn't worked out so well). So, who on this board is getting richer, and if you are getting poorer, can you really afford (financially) to be republican? Why am I not surprised...(sm) The pub way of thinking on this is to go ahead and let those workers lose their jobs, then save the auto industry, and then they can hire back those workers or others without any job security, benefits, etc... Under republican rule, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer (and that obviously hasn't worked out so well). So, who on this board is getting richer, and if you are getting poorer, can you really afford (financially) to be republican? Yes, it surprised me. Normally, equality (except for Fox) and sense in her posts. Can't say I'm surprised........... sm but I do find it a little ridiculous that they would come down on a Bible study group and not the men's Monday night footbal groups or poker night groups or Cub Scout meetings, etc. This is but one more sad example of how our rights are being stripped away little by little. And before anyone says that Christians should meet in churches only, I would ask what will you do when your rights as a citizen are infringed upon? 
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