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Men and woman and mothers and fathers are speaking now. sm

Posted By: sm on 2005-09-25
In Reply to: I assume you are writing all this from Iraq? - Gadfly

Many of whom have fought in Iraq.  They are on television right now. But you won't watch it. It would be too hard for you.  YOu would be screaming obscenities at them.  Do you know, they had to bleep out part of the antiwar march yesterday in DC because of the obscenities and vulgar language.  That is what you are, obscene and vulgar and unpatriotic.


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It's actually a woman speaking. sm
This is very significant because this was on Al-Jazeera TV and what she says is pretty chilling.  I clicked on it and it worked for me. I am sure you can find it somewhere else on the internet.  Just for the record, I am not so sure he is president material myself.  I dont doubt his leadership in the war on terror, but I am disappointed in other things.
So do you think our founding fathers
were religious fanatics? 
Anyone who thinks that the Founding Fathers >>>
intended the country to be run like a Christian theocracy is an ignoramus, a moron, or both.
I don't have to be tolerant of anyone trying to shove his religion down my political throat.
hope a lot of these posters are not mothers
because they would be horrible role models for the younger generation.
Don't we want to live like our founding fathers did?
Come on, just about everything I read on this board is a freaking joke, so, let's brainstorm some ideas so we can really be FREE. The first item to toss is the earned income credit - get rid of that welfare, money sucking drain on those of us who don't qualify!!! I'm tired of carrying all those lowlifes who don't earn as much as I do on my back!
Yep, our founding fathers did lay the foundation...(sm)
for our country over 200 years ago.  Unfortunately, the republican party hasn't  evolved with the rest of the world over those 200 years.
Do you think all mothers would choose their life over their child's?
A serious question.
Here is just a little bit for you, quotes of the founding fathers...NOT deists as you would like to
talk about arrogance. Your post is heavvyyyy with it.

Early Years
The First Charter of Virginia (granted by King James I, on April 10, 1606)
• We, greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory of his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God…
Instructions for the Virginia Colony (1606)
Lastly and chiefly the way to prosper and achieve good success is to make yourselves all of one mind for the good of your country and your own, and to serve and fear God the Giver of all Goodness, for every plantation which our Heavenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted out.

William Bradford
• wrote that they [the Pilgrims] were seeking:
• 1) "a better, and easier place of living”; and that “the children of the group were being drawn away by evil examples into extravagance and dangerous courses [in Holland]“
• 2) “The great hope, and for the propagating and advancing the gospel of the kingdom of Christ in those remote parts of the world"
The Mayflower Compact (authored by William Bradford) 1620 | Signing of the Mayflower painting | Picture of Compact
“Having undertaken, for the glory of God, and advancement of the Christian faith, and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one of another, covenant and combine our selves together…”
______________________________________________________________________

John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]

John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798

"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson

"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean He**." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817] |
.......click here to see this quote in its context and to see John Adams' quotes taken OUT of context!


Samuel Adams: | Portrait of Sam Adams | Powerpoint presentation on John, John Quincy, and Sam Adams
“ He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all… Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.” [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]

“ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.” [October 4, 1790]

John Quincy Adams:
• “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.

“The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code.”
John Quincy Adams. Letters to his son. p. 61

Elias Boudinot: | Portrait of Elias Boudinot
“ Be religiously careful in our choice of all public officers . . . and judge of the tree by its fruits.”

Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence | Portrait of Charles Carroll
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]

Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech

“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]

In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."

In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone."

Alexander Hamilton:
• Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great:
(1) Christianity
(2) a Constitution formed under Christianity.
“The Christian Constitutional Society, its object is first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States.”

On July 12, 1804 at his death, Hamilton said, “I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.”

"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." [1787 after the Constitutional Convention]

"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."

John Hancock:
• “In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.
"A Day of Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer, with a total abstinence from labor and recreation. Proclamation on April 15, 1775"

Patrick Henry:
"Orator of the Revolution."
• This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.”
—The Last Will and Testament of Patrick Henry

“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]

“The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed.”

John Jay:
“ Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin, 1970), Vol. IV, p. 393.

“Whether our religion permits Christians to vote for infidel rulers is a question which merits more consideration than it seems yet to have generally received either from the clergy or the laity. It appears to me that what the prophet said to Jehoshaphat about his attachment to Ahab ["Shouldest thou help the ungodly and love them that hate the Lord?" 2 Chronicles 19:2] affords a salutary lesson.” [The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, 1794-1826, Henry P. Johnston, Editor (New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1893), Vol. IV, p.365]

Thomas Jefferson:
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]

Note all the references to Christianity and to Jesus. Now that your lies are put to rest, can we please move ON?

Read the quotes. They were NOT secularists. The Lord Jesus Christ was part of their everyday lives. It was not something they put on on Sunday and took off on Monday, like some religious types do. It was ingrained in everything they did. That is what Christianity is.

What you are so angry about is that someone is still willing to call something that is wrong...wrong. You don't like feeling guilty so you attack...that is a normal human response. Examine why it makes you so angry to think this country was founded by Christians and all our founding documents are based on Christian ideals.
do u mean the founding fathers that actually wrote our constition?
The ones that didn't wipe their a$$e$ on it? The ones that wanted to separate church from state? The ones that wanted liberty from tyranny?
Our Founding Fathers were considered terrorists. sm
God forbid, there are people out there who want to defend our Constitution. Americans should be ashamed of themselves for letting things go this far. Real change needs to come from us. It should alarm people. Stalin, Mao, and Hitler used the same tactics to stifle dissent. People who support the Independent Party, Christians, and pro lifers are also on it. DHS distributed that memo to 70 or 80 different fusion centers throughout the US. Many thanks are due the concerned and honest police officer who leaked the one that went to Missouri.
No, I didn't....it was in response to all the attacks about unwed mothers..
but i guess you feel that is okay, right?
Obama values life of babies AND their mothers.
I am not in the habit of debating with brick walls, but I will address your issue directly just as soon as you come up with something that will convince me that McCain's air quotes demontrate high regard for human life. Kill the mom, save the baby, then watch while it pulls itself up by its bootstraps, lest we turn our beloved country into a welfare state. P-U.
Angry Mothers and Trembling Grizzlies: The Sheehan Effect







Angry Mothers and Trembling Grizzlies: The Sheehan Effect
by Dr. Teresa Whitehurst


"Sheehan has been involved in protests against Bush since last year. She founded Gold Star Families for Peace...She said she decided to seek another audience with Bush when she heard his comments about the war last week, after a spike in American deaths. The fallen men and women "died in a noble cause," Bush said Wednesday. "Their families can know that we will honor their loved ones' sacrifice by completing the mission."


"Sheehan said she wants to tell Bush not to use her son's death as a reason to continue the war, and to ask "why (Bush's twin daughters) Jenna and Barbara and the other children of the architects of this disastrous war are not in harm's way, if the cause is so noble." ArmyTimes.com, August 8, 2005


For some, Cindy Sheehan's lonely journey through the shock and sorrow of her son Casey's death in Iraq is of no interest. What, they ask, is the big deal? One soldier killed, one mother grieving – so what? Mothers have no business meddling in the manly business of war, or expressing inconvenient, disloyal, unpatriotic feelings like grief or anger. Get over it, critics command, and think about "the mission" instead, a mission that "we should see through" so that other people can't make fun of us for "cutting and running."


Instead of focusing on one poor misguided woman, or on how many more Americans and innocent Iraqi families will be killed in this war, we're told to think about how great it will be when other people admire us for killing every terrorist and future terrorist in the whole wide world. Instead of thinking about the new fundamentalist Islamic "democracy" that Bush's war has ushered in for the poor girls and women of Iraq, think about "the good news" way, way down the road when they get used to wearing the burqa and live happily ever after. In short, Americans should focus on "the big picture."


But for mothers – even those who've tried valiantly to believe the president when he exclaims that the war on Iraq is a "noble cause" – there IS no big picture. For mothers of slain soldiers, there are only little pictures: their lost child smiling at 10 months in his high chair; riding his first bike without training wheels; opening Christmas presents (Hot Wheels, Transformers, or GI Joe); and making silly faces for the camera.


The little picture encompasses all those times when parents stay up all night with their sick children, or protect them from bullies, or wipe away their tears after a friend's rejection. It's not just the happy times that mothers remember, it's the multitude of little moments, little pictures in a parent's mind, of time and love invested in one's offspring. When this enormous investment is squandered by reckless military adventures that zip kids into body bags, parents are owed great compensation. And they are owed the truth.


Do George and Laura Bush ever imagine how it would feel if all they had left of their beloved child was, as Cindy Sheehan has, a few snapshots and an abyss of sorrow in their hearts? Must they suppress their natural compassion in order to convince themselves of their own administration's spin – that it's "worth it" when American kids die far away from home for reasons that have consistently turned out to be false?


Do the Bushes feel the earth tremble beneath their feet at the mere thought that thousands of parents of slain soldiers are beginning to ask questions, to see the folly for which their children died…to find their voice?


Cindy remembers the little picture, which is why George has been hiding from her. She is his worst nightmare, for she is not just Cindy Sheehan, mother of Casey. She is Every Mother. And, no matter how uncomfortable it gets, she's not going to dishonor her son by saying, "Well okay, if you say so, I guess this war was worth my boy's life."


Support Our Wars or Else


What does it really mean to "honor" a soldier's death…and life? To say that he or she willingly died "to end terrorism" (impossible), or "make Iraq a democracy" (ditto)? Unless they were suicidal when they enlisted (I know one boy who was), dying in Iraq is not the soldier's "sacrifice" because by definition, a sacrifice is something that we choose and willingly make. Most young people never imagined when they enlisted – often for reasons their recruiters understood but their parents didn't, such as finding a sense of belonging, or escaping bad neighborhoods or dead-end jobs, or finding a way to afford college some day – that they'd be dead within a matter of months.


To swallow ridiculous, ever-changing reasons for the futile war that has killed over 1800 idealistic youths with their whole lives ahead of them is to take the easy, socially acceptable way out. Pro-war pundits and politicians constantly threaten parents with social disapproval and even hatred if they dare to question those reasons – and it's worked for a long time. Parents have felt pressured to mouth the hawks' lines, lest their love for their child be called into question.


What a devilishly mean but perfect system for subduing the parents of fallen soldiers! Politicians and talk show hosts threaten: "Support our troops (the war), or we'll accuse you of dishonoring your dead child." The last thing that worried or grieving parents can bear is the suggestion that they're "dishonoring" the memory of the one they love. And so they have acquiesced. They have submitted. Archie Bunker would be pleased: Like Edith, they've learned to stifle themselves.


Until now.


Protective Fury: The Tipping Point


One day, back when Americans lived in peace and we'd never even heard of the Bush dynasty or the plotting neocons whose reckless ambitions it would serve, I was watching a nature show about grizzly bears in their natural habitat. I will never forget one particularly electrifying scene that comes to mind whenever I hear about Cindy Sheehan's vigil outside Mr. Bush's gated compound.


A large male grizzly came upon two adorable little grizzly cubs, who looked up at him with wonder and naivete; clearly, they didn't realize the danger they were in. To my great surprise, however, the male grizzly stood bolt upright as though startled, then starting running away from those harmless little cubs. Why on earth did he do that, I wondered. The narrator explained that the male knew instinctively that there's nothing more dangerous than a mother grizzly who senses that her cubs may be harmed.


As the huge male ran off into the woods, the narrator continued: "While the male grizzly is larger and could probably kill the female, he knows that in the process, her protective fury would leave him seriously, if not mortally, wounded. Mother grizzly bears will fight to the death for their young, ripping the flesh of any animal, no matter how large, that threatens their cubs. Coming upon the youngsters frightened the adult male so badly that he ran and hid because the mother, unseen but without a doubt somewhere near by, could at any moment sniff his presence and roar into action."


Human males can also sense danger, and know very well the hazards of facing protective mothers – particularly when other mothers are watching, too. This explains why the mainstream media has worked so hard to make antiwar parents of fallen soldiers look pitiful, and why George Bush is hiding inside his compound, hoping that Ms. Sheehan will lose interest and go away.


But what the president doesn't understand is this: She's not going to lose interest, and furthermore it isn't just Cindy Sheehan anymore. Parents of servicemen and women all over the country are beginning to see the little picture again. This is the tipping point, a showdown fueled by motherly devotion that will embolden other families to start questioning the integrity and fitness of this administration and this president: It's what I call the Sheehan Effect.


And that's the worst news ever for a man who can only see the "the mission," the big picture, and how noble it will look under "Bush, George W." in the history books.


British Government Says Mothers With Babies New Terror Threat sm
British Government Says Mothers With Babies New Terror Threat
You're either with us, or you're with the babies.

British government security advisors and the national media are doing their level best to strike rampant irrational paranoid terror into the hearts of UK citizens by identifying the latest targets of the war on terror as pregnant women and toddlers.

Absurd delirious fearmongering continues in the British media with the Sun tabloid, Britain's most braindead and unfortunately also most popular newspaper screaming, HATE-filled mums willing to sacrifice themselves and their BABIES are being hunted in the war on terror.

Yes that's right you haven't slipped into an upside down parallel universe - pregnant women and mothers with young babies are the new Al-Qaeda.

The evidence?

The nightmare is that mums carrying tiny tots would provide “very good cover” and not raise suspicions among even the most alert security guards.

The Sun cited a senior Government security adviser as their source.

So let's ignore that guy with the turban who looks like Mohammed Atta and instead focus our magic screening wand on Mrs. Smith and her newborn infant.

Extra pat downs for young mums and making toddlers take their shoes off - boy do I feel safer now.

What's the next threat? Barney the purple dinosaur?

Of course we know what this is all designed to accomplish - it's about broadening the terrorist definition to the point where everyone's a suspect and everybody's behavior is under preposterous and suffocating scrutiny.

The implication that the most benign, harmless and innocent members of our society could in actuality be terrorist suicide bombers is a sick ploy crafted to ensure that absolutely no one is allowed to escape the self-regulating stench of being under suspicion.

It is also intended to brainwash the population that terrorists are potentially hiding under their beds, that they are everywhere and that only by a system of reporting suspicious behavior and unquestionably trusting the government will they too avoid the accusing finger.

This is classic Cold War style behavioral conditioning and the Neo-Fascist architects know exactly what they're doing.

Despite the status of alert returning to previous levels in both the US and the UK, ridiculous restrictions on travelers remain in place. Every time a new bout of fearmongering washes over a stupefied public, they are more pliable to new ways of being shoved around by government enforcers, even after the alleged plot has been foiled.

The fearmongering never subsides, it is always ratcheted up another peg in anticipation for future manufactured threats.
The future of airport security?

Why don't they just ban any luggage, clothing or personal accessories whatsoever and have done with it? Better yet - why not strap every passenger into a straight jacket from the moment they enter the airport?

In Knoxville, TSA officials are testing a biometric scanner device which interrogates passengers about their 'hostile intent' by asking a barrage of questions. If you thought the current delays and blanket 'everybody's a criminal terrorist' attitude were annoying enough, you ain't seen nothing yet.

In a similar example to the mothers and babies mindlessness, the London Guardian reports that located in the tranquil and peaceful rural surroundings of the British Lake District and Yorkshire Dales are terrorist training camps where Al-Qaeda devotees are preparing for their next big attack.

What's next? Bomb making factories under the Atlantic Ocean? Islamo Fascist brainwashing schools at the North Pole?

The sheer stupidity implicit in the Guardian article is bewildering. If the police haven't even questioned the alleged terrorists, allowing them to gather evidence of terrorist activity, because they're conducting covert surveillance of the group then why in God's name have they told a national newspaper, who in turn have splashed the story all over their front page?

If these supposed terrorists didn't know they were under surveillance before then they sure do now!

I live on the edge of the Peak District nearby the kind of areas being fingered as terrorist training areas. The closest thing to Al-Qaeda like activity up here is when a discourteous rambler leaves a farm gate open.

Again, it's about people who live in the country being smothered with the same raving paranoia and cockamamie fearmongering city-dwellers are subjected to. Woe betide anyone living in a converted barn house in the middle of miles and miles of wilderness think they can escape the war on terror - it applies to anything!

Baby formula, lip gloss, mothers and toddlers included.




The Founding Fathers were not Christians and the country was not founded on Christianity
I hate to disagree with you sam because I usually find you right on the spot about a lot, but this time I do disagree...

One of the most common statements is that the country was “founded on Christian principles by Christian men”. However, research into American history shows this statement is false. The men responsible for building the foundation of the United States had little use for Christianity, and many were strongly opposed to it. They were men of The Enlightenment, not men of Christianity. They were Deists who did not believe the bible was true.

None of the Founding Fathers were atheists. Most of the Founders were Deists, which is to say they thought the universe had a creator, but that he does not concern himself with the daily lives of humans, and does not directly communicate with humans, either by revelation or by sacred books. They spoke often of God, (Nature's God or the God of Nature), but this was not the God of the bible. They did not deny that there was a person called Jesus, and praised him for his benevolent teachings, but they flatly denied his divinity. Most of them were stoutly opposed to the bible, and the teachings of Christianity in particular.

Yes, there were Christian men among the Founders. Just as Congress removed Thomas Jefferson's words that condemned the practice of slavery in the colonies, and altered his wording regarding equal rights increasing its religious overtones.

The Founding Fathers would turn in their graves if the Christian Extremists had their way with this country. The Founders clearly did not heed what was written in the bible. If they were in fact "good" Christians, there would never have been an American Revolution. Here are some statements and quotes.

John Adams – “This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."

George Washington – The father of this country was very private about his beliefs, but it is widely considered that he was a Deist like his colleagues. He was a Freemason.
George Washington's practice of Christianity was limited and superficial because he was not himself a Christian. He repeatedly declined the church's sacraments. Never did he take communion, and when his wife, Martha, did, he waited for her outside the sanctuary. Even on his deathbed, Washington asked for no ritual, uttered no prayer to Christ, and expressed no wish to be attended by His representative.

Benjamin Franklin - ". . . Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."

Thomas Paine – Each of those churches shows certain books, which they call revelation, or the Word of God. The Jews say that their Word of God was given by God to Moses face to face; the Christians say, that their Word of God came by divine inspiration; and the Turks say, that their Word of God (the Koran) was brought by an angel from heaven. Each of those churches accuses the other of unbelief; and, for my own part, I disbelieve them all.

Other founders who were deists...Ethan Allen, James Madison & James Monroe.

Also, when the Constitution was written they wanted to ensure that no single religion make the claim of being the official national religion like England had. Nowhere in the Constitution does it mention religion exception in exclusionary terms. However, the words “Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, and God are never mentioned – not even once. The 1796 treaty with Tripoli states that the US was “in no sense founded on the Christian religion”.

If we are going to rule abortion wrong, then we must support these babies and mothers who cannot do
Everyone says that there is no circumstance where an abortion would be validated, and that may well be very true, but....if we then say no to social programs to pay for food, clothing, lodging, education, warmth, etc. that the baby and mother will be needing for years, money for daycare if the mom needs to work, money for work programs for more jobs, money for educational programs like CETA for job training so the mommy, and then her child, can affod to be trained in something they can use to be employable, and of course the money it takes to give prenatal care, postnatal care, hospititalization, NICU if needed, and pediatric and well care, ...... if a woman is not in the circumstance to do this and she has no family that can provide for her and the baby, then where is the money to come from, if we are not going to put our $$$ where our collective "mouths" are and find judicious, accountable social programs to fund this all???????
Just look at statistics on infant mortality rate for mothers without prenatal care - nm
z
you were speaking of yourself, right?

So patriotism is a mental illness.  Well, it probably is to you, so that does make sense.  Yes, mental illness is love of country, pride in the military and thanks for their sacrifices.  You don't have any of that, so you are fine.  No problem.  Glad we cleared that up.


Speaking only for myself....it is getting....
harder and harder to distinguish between liberals and leftists, as there are more and more posting calling themselves *liberals* but posting the way left stuff that only used to come from what I call leftists...the far left. In other words, the lines are becoming REAL blurry...also difficult to separate Democrats from leftists as the party slides farther and farther left....or at least it appears so, or the moderate and conservative Democrats have just gone silent in shock or apathy....I don't have the answer. You just don't hear from them anymore....at least I don't.
Was I speaking to you?
Can't resist the impulse to interrupt somebody else's conversation, I see. That's what Hannity does whenever he is losing his grip on his liberal guests. Transparent.
I was speaking of

reasoning voters.  Please excuse me for not clarifying that.


 


speaking of ron .....

My hubs saw the "vote for Ron Paul" signs and asked me if it was a joke.  I said what do you mean, and he said, "isn't that the tranny?" 


Almost wrecked the car laughing so hard.  Had to explain to DH that the tranny is Rue Paul.  OMG LMAO!!!!


Speaking for myself,
there are not many born conservatives.  I think conservatism is something that ''grows on you,'' or something that you grow into.  I was a teenager in the sixties, with many of the attitudes that implies.  As I aged and became more responsible and and started to ''get it,'' got a real job and wanted promotions, began earning money and wanting to hold onto it, bought a house and cared about what happened to my neighborhood, etc., I became more conservative.  I dont think I am the only one to become more conservative as I've aged.  I suspect celebrities are the same.  You can only be a free spirit so long.  As the Nationwide commercials say:  Life comes at you fast.
Speaking of credibility...
You promised to grace us with your absence before, yet your posts are multiplying like bunnies all over this board.  So much for YOUR credibility.
It was obvious you were speaking for
.
Your illness speaking for you again?

My take on your mental illness has nothing whatever to do with your political persuasion.  But you have illustrated that you are too ill to understand that.  You are annoying and I will not pay any more attention to your childish and sick comments.


I was speaking to Democrat, actually. sm
Since the story was copied and pasted here, I would like the specific source.  I am sure Democrat understands. 
I assume you are speaking of me.
First of all, for your information since you obviously cannot or will not read, I despise Bush.  Your intolerance tells the world (these boards are read by the world, after all) that the liberal left in the United States has become the party of intolerance, anti-Israel, anti-American.  You don't appreciate the freedoms you have and you live a world coloured by hopelessness and despair.  I really pity you.  Since I don't vote in the United States, I am neither left nor right.  But of course, it's easier to label and name call, as you seem so very good at.  The realisation may hit one day that you have a very narrow view of the world out there.
Plainly speaking.....
what difference does it make? But in an attempt to answer a loaded question, I thought these boards lent themselves more to ideologies than to politics. These boards are here even when elections are not. There is no "liberal party" and no "conservative party" that I am aware of. Do you only "Think Liberal" about politics? Do you build your life around politics? I thought liberalism (and conservatism for that matter) transcended politics. Pardon me if I gave too much credit.
Speaking of values

Golly how many times are you going to bring this up about Clinton like it is truly important in the problems our world faces?  It's like you are completely nutso about this, over and over and over and over and over and over and over......wow!


I think it is terrifying and heart-wrenchingly sad that with the genocide, starvation, astounding poverty globally PLUS this war we have created with how many hundreds of thousands of civilians killed including babies, pregnant women, children plus the US dead and countless with TBI and amputations....that the thing that you totally obsess over is Clinton and his sex and his lie to the court over something that should never have gone to court in the first place.  JFK would have been in deep you-know-what had he ever been brought to task for his philandering....and he probably would have covered things up, too.


How pathetic that this nation is more interested in sex scandals than the multitude of catastrophic problems facing our population on this planet.  It shows how shallow and value-less we can be.......impeaching someone over sex.....how about impeaching someone over the death of 1/2 a million people for dubious reasons and political gain.....   


Hey - just asking, Speaking from experience.
That's why I work at home.
Well then, speaking of unsupervised
If you're daughter is busy continuing her education with a toddler, and we know how much hard undivided work has to go into a master's, then your grandchild must be really unsupervised and no telling how she might turn out. And then, to have put so much time and effort into that degree, of course she would want to go for a really good job, demanding, time consuming, taking a lot of time away from her child. Would you dare tell your daughter your thoughts on that subject? Probably not!!!
Comparitively speaking........... sm
considering the UAW has been offered the same as workers in foreign companies, we would have to assume that the cut we would receive would bring us down to what the MTs in India are making. Are you ready to work for a nickle a line?

I'm not taking up for the UAW because I believe their skills needed for doing their jobs are no less than the skills needed to do our jobs. People's safety ride on our ability to do our jobs properly as well as auto workers. Just playing devil's advocate for a while.
speaking of powerless

Obama gets voted in and Dems run the House, Senate, and WH.  Use your imagination to see how far left this country goes.


If people want to live in socialism, leave the USA as it was established (capitalism).  Go to France, etc. since it's such a great way to live.


Speaking from experience?
xx
Speaking futurewise here
I am speaking in the future here - - what artificial insemination - - there wouldn't be any. 
I believe she is speaking in tongues! (nm)
:)
historically speaking
when the worker keeps less than 50% of his/her pay, it brings revolution. It is what this country was founded on. Under Obama's plans the average worker will get to keep .38 cents on the dollar. You will work 8-9 months of the year and not get one cent for it. Wow, that sure doesn't sound too good for the middle class to me, but under Obama's plan we should all be working for the "common good." Sound familiar to anyone? But personally, I see an even bigger issue here. Money is not the only riches we have. We Americans are rich in freedoms, and too many people are taking them for granted. People in this country are lining up to give away their freedoms to a charismatic new leader who promises "change." Things will change all right, but be careful what you wish for because you just might get it and it might not be what you expected.
Subconscious speaking out perhaps????
xx
You are speaking in terms of only 1 ...
Calm down and have another drink of your Obama Kool-Aid and watch the other 2, maybe you will catch it.
We would all be speaking Urdu by now.
xx
Speaking of character...

Just because a Georgia congressman needs some publicity (like a 2-year-old, bad attention is just as good as good attention) and says something stupid, people jump all over it.


There are whackos in Congress, just as there are in the general public.  A perfect example is Michele Bachmann who trashed Obama on national television, and when she saw it backfired on her, she quickly produced a commercial saying some nonsense about her words not always coming out right but her heart being in the right place.  (And then she blamed the host of the show for tricking her into saying these outlandish things.)


After the election, she then went on to do a 180 and issued the statement below.


After suggesting that Barack Obama had anti-American views in an exchange three weeks ago with MSNBC host Chris Matthews, Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) told Politico Thursday that she was "extremely grateful that we have an African-American who has won this year." She called his victory "a tremendous signal we sent."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/06/bachmann-praises-obamas-w_n_141922.html


 


Did you ever think that speaking is fine, but
nm
Speaking of Americans.........
What they all need to do is not come together and accept whatever a president throws out there. Most Americans doesn't have a clue that BIG government is NOT a good thing. They actually believe the government should take care of them, that the government is to make all decisions for this country. No one ever told them that government is not supposed to be involved in their lives and no, it is not my place to sit back and be all one united group that just lets government ram anything and everything down my throat.

If you want to sit back, hold hands, and sing a little tune, then you do that. I do not care for more government; when has government ever solved a problem? Since when has government ever took your money and done something besides blow it? You think your government knows better than you how to spend your money? You think you should be paying income tax in the first place? Anyone who has fallen for "it's patriotic to pay taxes" garbage is the reason this country is where it is to this day. They hand it all over, sit back and say "we should all unite"......and do what? If you want to unite for something, then unite to tell YOUR government enough already. You don't not want more government, more taxes, more social problems, which is exactly what Obama wants. We've got enough social problems and wasted money. You want more? I don't.

You want to come together, then come together to get government out of our lives. But what do you see? Just the opposite. So many Americans are just to used to having someone else tell them how/what to do, they don't think for themselves anymore and they sit quaking in their boots when they hear a candidate that stands up and says enough government, no more government. It scares them to death because all they know is government interference in their lives. They actually believe that is their government's job, to make all their laws and tell them how to live.
I know what I am talking about, speaking from
So please don't pass judgment.  You don't know me.
Speaking of ignorance....(sm)

I just love it when people try to wallow around in righteous, indignant self pity.  If you're so concerned about the plight of the Jewish people, why don't you go and help out your grandmother? 


Ask yourself this question.  Since Great Britian and the UN thought so highly of Jews as to actually declare them a separate nation, why didn't they create that nation in Europe?  My guess is that there were 2 reasons.  Number one would have to be the *not in my backyard phenomenon.*  The other was simply as a controlling interest in the region.  The reality is that Britian didn't give a rat's butt about the Jews.  They just picked the most susceptible minds (at the time) to carry out their plans.  They sold the idea of backing Isreal through religion and still do, just like the US does.  One big clue to this is exactly how much we actually back Israel.  We have brought them up to the level of nukes while they are still just fighting against homemade bombs.  We (the US) look the other way when Israel kills hundreds of Palestinians, but will run a prime time special if 2 (not 200, just 2) Israelis are killed.  Yeah, that's a fair fight.  We back other leaders in the middle east, but only to a point (Saddam for example).  Once they get to a point where they may actually become a threat to Israel (a holding interest for the west) we always manage to call them a threat for some other reason and level the playing field. 


I really wish people would look at the big picture on this one.  From a political standpoint, Israel is nothing more than a bishop in a chess game.


What speaking style? You mean all his
nm
Speaking of retarded...

look in the mirror and you will see one. This proves how stupid O voters are....


He was on TV a few minutes ago speaking about this......
He said he is now waiting to hear back from the government to see if he is "allowed" to practice medicine basically. So now the government wants to tell the doctors they can't actually give healthcare to a patient unless the government tells them if they can...... yea, that's a free society alright!!

http://www.1010wins.com/Regulators-Frown-on-NYC-Doctor-s--79-Flat-Fee/3960786
speaking of sins..

Got a bunch of sins, according to your Bible.  Looks like you're sinning all over the place dear - Got a million more if you want em.


accusing - Jude 9:2


arguing - Titus 3:9


bitterness - Acts 8:23


not receiving a child of God sent by God - Mark 6:11


speaking against God's children - Act 2:28


thinking evil in your heart against God's children - Matthew 9:4


busybodies - Timothy 5:13


condemning - Luke 6:37


foolish conversation - Eph 5:4


 


 


 


The O is speaking right now about GITMO and
the photos, national security, and transfer of prisoners.