Obama Disagrees With Pastor's *** **** America Sermon
Posted By: sm. on 2008-03-17 In Reply to:
Obama Disagrees With Pastor's 'God Dam*n America' Sermon Obama on His Pastor: 'I Profoundly Disagree With Some of These Statements' By BRIAN ROSS and REHAB EL-BURI March 14, 2008—
Sen. Barack Obama says he "obviously disagrees" with his pastor of 20 years who said black Americans should sing "God Dam*n America" instead of "God Bless America."
Reacting to an ABC News story about the sermons of Rev. Jeremiah Wright of the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, Obama told the Pittsburg Tribune-Review, "I haven't seen the line. This is a pastor who is on the brink of retirement who in the past has made some controversial statements. I profoundly disagree with some of these statements."
But he defended Rev. Wright's overall record, accusing ABC News of "cherry picking" statements of the man with a 40-year career.
"There are times when people say things that are just wrong. But I think it's important to judge me on what I've said in the past and what I believe," he told the paper.
The messages you are viewing
are archived/old. To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select
the boards given in left menu
Other related messages found in our database Why do you hate anyone who disagrees with Obama...
and/or supports McCain? Why IS that? Why does he inspire that kind of vitriol? I am an American, just like you, I can have an opinion...I don't attack you and call you names...I don't make up cutesy little terms like McBush...I am just an AMerican, just like you, who has every right to support the candidate of MY choice. You act as if I have no right to do that, and if I do, I am your enemy. Read your words. WHY do you react that way? Do you honestly think I am your enemy??
I think the controversy around Obama's pastor
will cause some superdelegates to be very wary. In the end I think (and hope) that Clinton will get the nomination.
Obama was a member of a church whose pastor said...
"God damm* America." Obama went to that church for 20 years.
Palin's husband was a member of the Alaskan Independence party several years ago, and this quote came from the head of the party.
OBAMA and government are taking over EVERYTHING!! Look out, American is next.
May 31st, 2009 9:54 PM Eastern
RICHARD MILLER: First GM, Next America
By Richard Miller
Author, “In Word and Deeds: Battle Speeches In History”
It was said once that what was good for General Motors was good for America. I would update that aphorism: what is happening to General Motors is happening to America. Some of this is a bitter necessity–but much of it will be very bad, brought on by the voting public’s collective refusal to face the consequences of our nation’s (and our own) increasingly reckless financial behavior over the past three decades.
—————
The truth is that the president is just doing with GM what we, the people elected him to do: manage America’s decline and do it gently, painlessly, without seeming to abandon the old tropes of American Greatness.
—————
First, about that which is necessary. The key word here is “deleveraging.” GM, like many other corporations, homeowners, and credit card borrowers simply incurred too much debt. Most of GM’s debt was self-inflicted–ordinary borrowing. But much of the most damaging debt was simply conspiratorial. Unions and management had few incentives to control the former’s spiraling wages, benefits and pensions while the latter had to avoid strikes and keep the machine running in order to earn its rich salaries and bonuses.
As for shareholders and bondholders, as long as GM played its own Ponzi game of being current on debt service, and as long as the stock rose in the general equity mania of the last generation, few asked many questions. Meanwhile, the only market that really counted — the domestic auto market — had been shrinking steadily for GM since the early 1970s. And the government (us, of course) was fond of its CAFEs, EPAs, OSHAs and other regulatory burdens that it imposed on the company. It all added up to what you now see unfolding before your eyes.
And what is very bad about GM’s situation? The Obama administration, in the name of the public good but in the fact of political payoff, has paid billions and pledged upwards of $50 billion dollars to a company that has failed to raise one dime of private capital. And all this done without querying GM exactly what it will do differently to compete with Mercedes, Toyota or even Ford. Do you know what will be different? Please comment if you do because despite studying this GM for years, I don’t have a clue.
Now here’s the surprise: I don’t blame Obama one bit. Sure, he broke his campaign pledge against Washington “politics as usual” by giving us Chicago “politics as usual.” In this case Alderman Obama delivered to his ward bosses at the UAW. But the truth is that the president is just doing with GM what we, the people elected him to do: manage American decline and do it gently, painlessly, without seeming to abandon the old tropes of American Greatness.
We, the public, wanted to avoid the pain that the logic of our (former) economic and social system would have required of GM: file a non-government subsidized bankruptcy petition, and hope that the washed through assets would actually be acquired by some guy with a better idea on how to build cars.
“Too big to fail,” we said in our collective arrogance. Too much pain. Too many suppliers forced out of business, too many workers unemployed, too many pensioners struggling to survive on reduced benefits. All probably true, and all part of the economic logic that built this country. Brutal, yes, but when you see the pain that the Indians and Chinese are willing to bear in order to supplant us as world leaders, you may remember that it’s a price our ancestors bore when America was ascendant.
The truth is that as a nation, we’re no longer “up to it,” the “it” being the costs associated with world leadership. We, GM and America have entered our dotage. Obama isn’t the problem, he’s just a symptom. (And to demonstrate how non-partisan this is, remember that it was Republican Bush ‘43 and his trusty sidekick “Help U.S.” Hank Paulson who argued for Detroit’s first $25 billion as well as $700 billion in TARP funds. It was at that very moment that Old America was declared dead and gone by its elites. All Obama has done is turn up the volume on the same song.)
As a lifelong Republican, I’d love to bash the loyal opposition. But not this time. As a collective group we elected Obama to stop the pain. By making General Motors in effect a new department of the federal government, Obama, by deferring the pain to the Chinese government’s willingness to buy our bonds, has only done what we asked him to do.
Managing America’s decline–it’s only a secret inside this country.
Anyone who disagrees with the right. sm
Everyone who has a different point of view than far-right is wrong, same story, different election.
So if someone disagrees with you on...
...this issue, he or she DOESN'T have strong morals or values? This is the part of a sermon that I can do without...sm
But this lady takes it to a whole new level. Passing out!? That's a class act.
Here is the 9/11 sermon link as well.
I have not been able to find actual transcripts, just bits and pieces pulled from them to attempt to validate one side of the argument or the other. The articles at the site below have been the most objective I have seen so far though.
You just assume that anyone who disagrees with you is a ....
*gasp* Republican. I'm not. I am not adverse to intellect. I just don't happen to think that attacking an innocent 16-year-old girl because her mother is in a different political party is particularly intellectual, nor do I think it defines those who engage in as particularly intellectual. But that is just me.
You cannot even practice what you preach, the happy, joyous hopeful part.
Just downright nastiness is your party line.
and there's the moral superiority sermon for the day
Thinks they know more than about Israel than a Israeli. BTW, Liberal nobody on the C-board sicked this person on you. The only thing I believe they referred to the C-board about was reading a post there. So before you are so presumptious about that I suggest you get your facts straight and quit seeing everything in your world as conspiracy.
With all do respect, it was not just one snippet, one sermon....
do some independent research and you will see. And, with all due respect, go to the Trinity website and read the doctrine. The church gave Louis Farrakhan (Nation of Islam) an award, and Reverend Wright has said that he thinks Louis Farrakhan is a great man. This is not one or two sermons, it is the man, it is what he believes to his core (Wright). That should be obvious to anyone.
Nevermind about going to trinity website...they have removed most of the black liberation theology stuff. Go figure. They just say they ascribe to it. Go on the net and look at the black liberation theology, particularly the part about economic parity (redistribution of wealth). One of Obama's big things is a windfall profit tax on oil companies and turning that into a $1000 "energy rebate." THAT, no matter HOW you cut it, is redistribution of wealth. Obama DOES believe the black liberation theology, which is taught at the church he attended for 20 years. THAT is the real Barack Obama, and redistribution of wealth is socialist/Marxist (taking from the rich and giving to the poor). That is NOT American. What more can I say. Yes, Bush gave rebates, but they came from the tax coffers that ALL Americans pay into. He did not take directly from a group of companies and give back to people who did not earn it...Obama = socialism and he is so far left it is very close to Marxism. Folks, we DON'T want to go that way.
Funny that the moderator disagrees
personally attacked.
Someone disagrees and you post that garbage?
nm
A timely political Easter sermon
From the NY Times Guest Columnist
An Easter Sermon
By ROBERT WRIGHT
Published: April 7, 2007
Jesus knew viral marketing.
In the Gospel of Mark, the disciple John complains that nondisciples are selling bootlegged copies of Jesus’ miraculous powers. “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us.”
Jesus tells John to quit obsessing about the intellectual property and to focus on getting the brand out. “Do not stop him; for no one who does a deed of power in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me.” Jesus adds, “Whoever is not against us is for us.”
Fast-forward two millennia. Weeks after 9/11, George Bush says roughly the opposite. His famous “You’re either with us or against us” means that those who don’t follow his lead will be considered enemies. The rest is history. Today, Jesus has more than a billion devoted followers. Mr. Bush has ... well, fewer than that.
The religious left — yes, there is such a thing — complains that Mr. Bush ignores the Bible’s moral injunctions. But leave morality aside. If he could just match the Bible’s strategic savvy, that would make a world of difference.
Consider a teaching of Jesus that seems on its surface devoid of strategic import. “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”
Christians often cast this verse as innovative, a sharp break from Jesus’ Jewish tradition. But the same idea can be found in the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament), and here it is clear that the point of the kindness is to thwart the enemy: “If your enemies are hungry, give them bread to eat; and if they are thirsty, give them water to drink; for you will heap coals of fire on their heads.”
Coals of fire? As the editors of the New Oxford Annotated Bible explain, submitting to this treatment was an Egyptian ritual that “demonstrated contrition.” (And how!) “The sense here seems to be that undeserved kindness awakens the remorse and hence conversion of the enemies.”
Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn’t. It’s unlikely that sending Osama bin Laden a Hallmark card would induce paroxysms of self-doubt. Still, there are other ways that reining in hatred can hurt your enemy’s cause.
Suppose, for example, you were nurturing a nascent religious movement in the Roman Empire, and your antagonists welcomed excuses to harass you. Suppose, that is, you were the Apostle Paul. When Paul preaches kindness to enemies, he uses not the formulation found in the Gospels, but the one from the Hebrew Bible, complete with the coals of fire.
Of course, Mr. Bush is more in the shoes of the Roman emperor than of Paul. America isn’t a small but growing religious movement. It’s a great power threatened by a small but growing religious movement — radical Islam. But the logic can work both ways. Great powers, by mindlessly indulging retributive impulses, can give fuel to small but growing religious movements. If you want to deprive jihadists of ammunition, make it hard for them to persuade others to hate us.
Right after Paul espouses kindness to enemies, he adds: “Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.” Sounds like naïve moralizing until you look at those Abu Ghraib photos that have become Al Qaeda recruiting posters.
The key distinction is between man and meme. Yes, a great power can always kill and torment enemies, and, yes, there will always be times when that makes sense. Still, when you’re dealing with terrorists, it’s their memes — their ideas, their attitudes — that are Public Enemy No. 1. Jihadists are hosts for the virus of hatred, and the object of the game is to keep the virus from finding new hosts.
The Internet is fertile ground for memes, and jihadists are good at getting the brand out. One of the few things Osama bin Laden has in common with the Jesus of the Gospels is belief in the power of viral marketing.
The ultimate in viral marketing was Jesus’ ultimate sacrifice. Deemed a threat to the social order, he was crucified under Roman auspices. But the Romans forgot one thing: If you face a small but growing movement that threatens the imperial order, you shouldn’t attack the men in ways that help the memes.
Mr. Bush says his favorite philosopher is Jesus. One way to show it would be to spend less time repeat- ing the mistake of the Romans and more time heeding the wisdom of Christ.
_________________
Robert Wright, a senior fellow at the New America Foundation, runs the Web site Bloggingheads.tv.
One snippet of a sermon does not mean a whole 20 years worth
What I heard was awful, but that does not mean the church was like that for 20 years. I saw an interview with a lady who went to the same church and she said a lot of times the church spoke of love. It was not always hatred. By my next statement you are going to think I'm an "Obama lover" but really I am not. He's no where by means perfect, but I actually do believe he was not in service that day and did not hear that particular service. I believe if that church was spewing hatred Sunday after Sunday after Sunday for 20 years there would be more of the sermons on video tape, but there is only one service. And even at that it's not the whole service, it's one segment of the service. I also find it a little odd that this incident (sermon) happened after he started running for office. I also find it a little odd that one of Hillary's supporters was involved with Jeremiah Wright (involved meaning scheduling his tours, meetings, etc). Don't you think that this could have been a plant by her campaign to have this guy go in (who is actually supporting her), say a bunch of hateful statements, and oh by the way just happened to be videotaped that day, and only that portion of the sermon. Now wouldn't you think that Hillary's campaign would use that against Obama. Kind of have to think about that one. Also think it's quite odd that when it didn't backfire more than what Hillary & Bill thought it would, they started going on an all out rampage against him. I believe Rev. Wright was planted and it backfired on them. What I would have liked to hear was from other church members talking about what their church was about for the past 20 years, not just one segment of one sermon.
It's true. The left hate anyone who disagrees with
nm
Are you Christian? Ever read the Bible? Sermon on the Mount.
Doubtful. If you had, you would know just how ashamed you should be of yourself.
Meet The (White) Man Who Inspired Wright's Controversial Sermon
I was reading on ABC.com and found this article in the comments section. I don't know much about the Huffington Post, so this may be taken with a grain of salt. I thought it was interesting though.
Meet The (White) Man Who Inspired Wright's Controversial Sermon Sam Stein The Huffington Post March 21, 2008
Meet the man who inspired Reverend Jeremiah Wright's now famous tirade about America's foreign policy inciting the terrorist attacks of September 11.
His name is Ambassador Edward Peck. And he is a retired, white, career U.S. diplomat who served 32-years in the U.S. Foreign Service and was chief of the U.S. mission to Iraq under Jimmy Carter -- hardly the black-rage image with which Wright has been stigmatized.
In fact, when Wright took the pulpit to give his post-9/11 address -- which has since become boiled down to a five second sound bite about "America's chickens coming home to roost" -- he prefaced his remarks as a "faith footnote," an indication that he was deviating from his sermon.
"I heard Ambassador Peck on an interview yesterday," Wright declared. "He was on Fox News. This is a white man and he was upsetting the Fox News commentators to no end. He pointed out, a white man, an ambassador, that what Malcolm X said when he got silenced by Elijah Muhammad was in fact true: America's chickens are coming home to roost."
Wright then went on to list more than a few U.S. foreign policy endeavors that, by the tone of his voice and manner of his expression, he viewed as more or less deplorable. This included, as has been demonstrated in the endless loop of clips from his sermon, bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki and nuking "far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon and we never batted an eye."
And then he concluded by putting the comments on Peck's shoulders: "A white ambassador said that yall, not a black militant, not a reverend who preaches about racism, an ambassador whose eyes are wide open and is trying to get us to wake up and move away from this dangerous precipice... the ambassador said that the people we have wounded don't have the military capability we have, but they do have individuals who are willing to die and take thousands with them... let me stop my faith footnote right there."
Watch the video (the relevant material starts around the 3:00 mark):
So it seems that while Wright did believe American held some responsibility for 9/11, his views, which have been described as radically outside the political mainstream, were actually influenced by a career foreign policy official.
Who is Peck? The ambassador, who has offered controversial criticism of Israeli policy in the West Bank but also warned against the Iraq War, was lecturing on a cruise ship and was unavailable for comment. But officials at Peck's former organization, the Council for the National Interest, a non-profit group that advocates reducing Israel's influence on U.S. Middle East policy, offered descriptions of the man.
"Peck is very outspoken," said Eugene Bird, who now heads CNI. "He is also very good at making phrases that have a resonance with the American people. When he came off of that Fox News, a few days later he said they would never invite me back again."
And what, exactly, did Peck say in that Fox News interview that inspired Wright's words?
Here are some quotes from an appearance the Ambassador made on the network on October 11, 2001, which may or may not have been the segment Wright was referring to. On the show, Peck said he thought it was illogical to tie Saddam Hussein to the terrorist attacks on 9/11, and that while the then-Iraqi leader had "some very sound and logical reasons not to like [the United States]," he and Osama bin Laden had no other ties.
From there, Peck went on to ascribe motives for what prompted the 9/11 attacks. "Stopping the economic embargo and bombings of Iraq," he said, "things to which Osama bin Laden has alluded as the kinds of things he doesn't like. He doesn't think it's appropriate for the United States to be doing, from his perspective, all the terrible things that he sees us as having been doing, the same way Saddam Hussein feels. So from that perspective, they have a commonality of interests. But they also have a deeply divergent view of the role of Islam in government, which would be a problem."
No, I don't think she has a pastor problem...
the pentacostal world view is not Marxist for one thing. I am much more concerned about marxist/socialist GOVERNMENT change than I am about Pentecostals. Black liberation theology is not as much about religion as it is about introducing marxist/socialist change to government.
So, to answer question, I don't think Palin has a pastor problem.
Pastor Manning
Move over (or moveon?), Rev. Wright & Father Phleger...
WEST BEND, Wis. (AP) - Thirty-three pastors in 22 states used their sermons to make pointed recommendations about political candidates today.
The effort was orchestrated by the Arizona-based Alliance Defense Fund.
The conservative legal group plans to send copies of the pastors' sermons to the Internal Revenue Service with hope of setting off a legal fight and abolishing restrictions on church involvement in politics.
Critics call it unnecessary, divisive and unlikely to succeed.
The Reverend Eric Williams of Columbus has organized 55 religious leaders across the nation to file a complaint about the ADF's challenge.
The minister with the liberal United Church of Christ says churches should stand apart from the government.
We on the right are true patriots. We believe in America, in capitalism, morality, accountability. This country was built on the backs of hardworking people who believed in every person's right to own property, to achieve wealth and enjoy all the spoils of their hardwork. I don't work so those who won't work, who choose to have boat loads of kids on my dime can continue to leech off society. I don't want anyone in my family to wait for four months for necessary surgery because the lefties think everyone has the right to healthcare.
History has proven time and time again that capitalism works and socialism breeds poverty. This is why communism fell. It is why America has been the most wealthy and successful and powerful country in the world for so long. Yes, were are in a recession. Yes, the economy is failing. All that means is it's time to go back to basics. It's time close our borders, stop offshoring American jobs, stop importing crap from Asia, and start manufacturing good 'ol American-made products right here! How many American jobs would be created if we did this? The ONLY way to improve America's economy is to create American jobs on American soil and buy American-made products!
Treason is driving a Japanese car, working for a MTSO that employs Indian MTs, and voting for freaking Obama!
The founding pastor of a second Colorado church has resigned over gay sex allegations, just weeks after the evangelical community was shaken by the scandal surrounding megachurch leader Ted Haggard.
Haggard, a gay-marriage opponent, admitted to unspecified sexual immorality when he resigned last month as president of the National Association of Evangelicals and pastor of the 14,000-member New Life Church in Colorado Springs. A male prostitute had said he had had sex with Haggard for three years.
On Sunday, Paul Barnes, founding pastor of the 2,100-member Grace Chapel in this Denver suburb, told his evangelical congregation in a videotaped message he had had sexual relations with other men and was stepping down.
Dave Palmer, associate pastor of Grace Chapel, told The Denver Post that Barnes confessed to him after the church received a call last week.
The church board of elders accepted Barnes' resignation on Thursday.
On the videotape, which The Post was allowed to view, Barnes told church members: I have struggled with homosexuality since I was a 5-year-old boy. ... I can't tell you the number of nights I have cried myself to sleep, begging God to take this away.
Barnes, 54, led Grace Chapel for 28 years. He and his wife have two adult children.
Palmer said in a written statement that While we cannot condone what he has done, we continue to support and love Paul.
According to dictionary.com, the meanings of the N-word are “deeply disparaging and are used when the speaker deliberately wishes to cause great offense.” They go on to say, conversely, “it is sometimes used among African-Americans in a neutral or familiar way.”Since he whispered the statement behind what he thought was a cold microphone, it is highly unlikely that Rev. Jackson intended to cause great offense and his use of the word probably falls into the latter category of usage.
For example, the N-word can become much less offensive and even assume neutrality within historical discourse, literature, poetry, cinema theater and the like.One could further argue that within certain contexts (i.e. rap music, conversations within the black households, neighborhoods and businesses, to name a few) connotations of the word can be construed so as to convey a sense of community…even a brotherhood, of sorts.Language is fluid, dynamic and vital in its nature, not static or one-dimensional.Context, message, intent, environment, speaker and audience all impact the ultimate nuance of meaning in all forms of communication.
I agree with you and take deep offense at the use of the N-word, regardless of who says it.However, I would like to comment on some of the other points you raised in your post.A careful read of the actual statement shows that Rev. Jackson did not use this epithet to personally attack Obama.Rather, he was referring to the black population as a whole.Granted, his choice of words was extremely poor (at least from a white perspective), but the statement was not meant for public scrutiny.It was spoken from one black individual to another, much the same was that Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s statements were made from black preacher to black congregation.
As a white person, I do not believe I can sit in judgment one way or another regarding his choice of words when taken completely out of context, in the same way I am not qualified to criticize the sermons of Rev. Wright.I would like to think that I am intelligent enough to understand that, having lived in the US as a white person both before and after the civil right eras (1948 to present), I have not experienced life in America the same way black people have.They are entitled to their own “take” on their own lives.Who am I to tell them how to “tell it like it is?”
One last point.I am sure that much flap and bruhah will ensue over this unfortunate news.However, the very fact that Rev. Sharpton, you, I, the media and countless others will be having this debate over our outrage and dismay is a testament as to just how effective Rev Jackson and other early leaders in the civil rights movement were in defining the key issues, defying status quo of his times, enlisting support for the cause, effectively engaging his opposition in ongoing bipartisan initiatives over nearly 4 decades and producing fruitful, far-reaching and substantial bodies of legislation from which today’s black community continue to reap bountiful benefits and blessings.They weathered storms of protests, incarceration, series after series of setbacks and reversals, and buckets of bloodshed in their efforts to secure the civil liberties and rights that reach far beyond the black community to encompass other forms of discrimination against women, gays, immigrants and the poor, to name a few…all so casually taken for granted and so easily dismissed in the blink of an eye with one ill-chosen, unfortunate slip of the tongue.
For those of us whose memories reach further back than the latest round of CNN sound bytes and chat room chatter, we probably would forgive Obama should he decide not to denounce Rev Jackson’s support, nor would we feel driven to force him to abandon his own pastor of 20 years for the sake of our own righteous indignation.
Of course, we all know the Christian Right will haul out the WMDs to slay the messenger, but for the rest of us, this will be a pretty interesting read. I have not had a chance to completely view the video, but it will be fascinating to see how the Christian Right can bash this Pentacostal Worldview. Here's the link. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html
No, he was not her pastor at the time like wright...
was obama's for 20 years. Witches, racists...who's on first?
My pastor gave info
This was not biased, showed side by side the two candidates and their moral issue debates. He did tell us that we could speak to him afterwards on a personal, friendly basis and ask if we wanted to know who he would recommend outside of church. Anybody who reads their Bible knows who any pastor is going to vote for based just on abortion issues, etc.
Our pastor was talking just yesterday morning about how
we can't depend on the government to change America. It is up to the Christians of America to get on our faces before God and ask for mercy for our nation and pray we will, once again, be One Nation Under God.
Rick Warren? The pastor who prayed
The one who spoke on Larry King Live yesterday about the same sex marriage? Which was probably why the post above brought up Rick Warren. The one who wrote the Purpose Driven Life? The pastor of Saddleback Church who has 22,000 members that attend his church on weekends and a total of 65,000 members on-line? The pastor who has 7,000 volunteers? The pastor who ministers individuals who have HIV/AIDS? I could go on and on. You never heard of him? Must not have seen Obama's inauguration.
Disowning conservative politics is costly to pastor.sm
This is progress, now only if more would follow. Link to story below.
Palin's pending pastor disaster. As requested,
Thanks to Fox's Rev Wright feeding frenzy/orgy, the media now spotlights SP's religious upbringing. Here are some "legitimate" sources of info on the newest area of inquiry into SP's views, mentors, influences, etc., as we become more acquainted with JM's VP pick. A nutshell description might be politics based on the concept of manifest destiny. Most of these sources have often been cited by right-singers on this site. Keep in mind, these are only the early returns on this inquiry. Stay tuned.
http://www.wasillaag.net/
Due to the avalanche of inquiries, the Wasilla Assembly of God Q&A link has crashed and burned for the time being. Their Official Statement on Sarah Palin is posted here.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/sarah-palins-je.html
Statement from Senior Pastor Ed Kalnins on war, including "I believe that Jesus himself operated from that position of war mode."
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09032008/news/nationalnews/church_prayer_for_iraq_war_127206.htm
"Church Prayer for Iraq War." US soldiers battling terrorists in Iraq are "striving to do what's right" and are part of "a task . . . from God," Sarah Palin told worshippers at a conservative Pentecostal church earlier this year.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13098.html
"Jewish voters may be wary of Palin." After growing up in Wasilla Assembly of God, she switched to Wasilla Bible Church. This article deals with their views of Jews and Jews views of them. Visitors to the pulpit: David Brickner, of Jews for Jesus, who according to the Anti-Defamation League is “targeting Jews for conversion with subterfuge and deception,” asserts in essence that it's okay to bulldoze Palestinians. He goes on to say, "…terrorist attacks on Israelis as God's "judgment of unbelief" of Jews who haven't embraced Christianity."
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/election/2008/09/02/palin-said-war-in-iraq-gas-pipeline-are-gods-will/
"Palin said war in Iraq, gas pipeline are God’s will."
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/02/by_juliet_eilperin_when_alaska.html
Palin Asks for Prayers That War Be "Task That Is From God"
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/09/palins_past_pastor_bushfoes_he.html Tribunes Washington Bureau
"Palin's Past Pastor: Bush foes Hell-bound"
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2008/09/meet-sarah-palins-pastor-ed-kalnins.php
"Meet Sarah Palin's Rev. Wright"
On John Kerry supporters: "I'm not going tell you who to vote for, but if you vote for this particular person, I question your salvation. I'm sorry." Palin didn't speak about witchcraft; the pastor
Boo! Scared ya with that scary word, 'witchcraft', huh. The fanatical religious right are scared of their own shadows.
German anti-Nazi activist, Pastor Martin Niemöller:
In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me — and by that time no one was left to speak up.
The author has strong opinions, but I think he is right on!
Simon Winchester's recap of the events of April 18, 1906.
Teddy Roosevelt was President the morning San Francisco was hit by its devastating earthquake.
We were a DIFFERENT AMERICA then, Puppies. Just read this:
1. There was no warning...ZERO...than anything was amiss. Unlike August, 2005, there was no 10 days of warning ahead of the disaster. There were no satellites, no wireless, no TV. 2. In a city of 400,000...3,000 died and 225,000 were homeless. This happened in minutes...not days. At 5:12 a.m., the massive tectonic shake brought down a city, Rich and Poor alike. 3. The military responded instantly...in 153 minutes, the troops from the Presidio presented themselves...armed and ready...to the Mayor. Unlike the appalling delays with Katrina, the General in charge took instant command and moved his troops. FEMA stalled everything, including relief water trucks from Wal-Mart! (Ask yourself what sort of people we have become...when we need to wait for a Permission Slip from Brownie to move to help our neighbors?) 4. Mayor Schmiz, commandeered a boat to rush to Oakland, to wire the news to America. (Via Morse Code):San Francisco is in ruins. Our city needs help. 9 simple words. Which was how America found out about the catastrophe. No CNN. No Fox. No Geraldo. And how America responded. 5. The first relief train from L.A. arrived that night. Packed with food and clothing. Nobody in LaLa Land had to ask. They just DID IT. And there was no FEMA to turn back the train. 6. The Navy and the Coast Guard rushed in ships and boats to help. Nobody needed to go through channels. 7. The NEXT DAY Congress had passed legislation that allowed Roosevelt to dispatch rescue trains west....including the LARGEST HOSPITAL TRAIN EVER ASSEMBLED!!!. How is it, way back in 1916, from a standing start, Congress could assemble a massive train like that...when Bush had a hospital ship offshore (the Bataan)...which was never used???? 8. The guy in charge of the Post Office issued an order...signed by him, that NO UNSTAMPED LETTER WAS TO BE HELD UP FOR LACK OF POSTAGE! Can you IMAGINE any of our functionaries in today's wimp world of CAN'T DO Americans...issuing an order like that!! The brave pilots who got relegated to Kennel Duty for rescuing civilians know better.
Winchester does not mention the wonderful story of the founder of the Bank of America...who stood on the sidewalk and made sure his depositors could get cash, even as the bank lay in ruins. That speaks to an ATTITUDE about HELPING everyday Americans, and not just the Tax Pampered rich.
IN TODAY'S AMERICA...THE PUBLIC DOESN'T MATTER. INSTEAD...AT ALL COST PROTECT YOUR JOB, YOUR SENIORITY, YOUR RETIREMENT PACKAGE. Go along, shut up and mind your business.
America..where are you?
Tens of thousands, both American and Iraqi, have died for NOTHING..and when the truth is told finally, we will see the war was based on lies. Bush and his crew need to have something done to them, stand trial, impeachment, imprisonment, whatever..we cannot let this crime against humanity just slide by. I am outraged by it all and deeply saddened but I did not lose a loved one in this immoral war..I cannot even begin to think how I would react if I had lost someone to a war that did not have to be waged..I know, for sure, I would be one extremely rageful person..Give me a president who has had love affairs because of his weakness of loving women anyday over a president who loves to kill and wage war. I cannot believe what America is becoming..There are truly bad times..
America's war on the web
America's war on the web
While the US remains committed to hunting down al-Qaeda operatives, it is now taking the battle to new fronts. Deep within the Pentagon, technologies are being deployed to wage the war on terror on the internet, in newspapers and even through mobile phones. Investigations editor Neil Mackay reports
IMAGINE a world where wars are fought over the internet; where TV broadcasts and newspaper reports are designed by the military to confuse the population; and where a foreign armed power can shut down your computer, phone, radio or TV at will.
In 2006, we are just about to enter such a world. This is the age of information warfare, and details of how this new military doctrine will affect everyone on the planet are contained in a report, entitled The Information Operations Roadmap, commissioned and approved by US secretary of defence Donald Rumsfeld and seen by the Sunday Herald.
The Pentagon has already signed off $383 million to force through the document’s recommendations by 2009. Military and intelligence sources in the US talk of “a revolution in the concept of warfare”. The report orders three new developments in America’s approach to warfare:
Firstly, the Pentagon says it will wage war against the internet in order to dominate the realm of communications, prevent digital attacks on the US and its allies, and to have the upper hand when launching cyber-attacks against enemies.
Secondly, psychological military operations, known as psyops, will be at the heart of future military action. Psyops involve using any media – from newspapers, books and posters to the internet, music, Blackberrys and personal digital assistants (PDAs) – to put out black propaganda to assist government and military strategy. Psyops involve the dissemination of lies and fake stories and releasing information to wrong-foot the enemy.
Thirdly, the US wants to take control of the Earth’s electromagnetic spectrum, allowing US war planners to dominate mobile phones, PDAs, the web, radio, TV and other forms of modern communication. That could see entire countries denied access to telecommunications at the flick of a switch by America.
Freedom of speech advocates are horrified at this new doctrine, but military planners and members of the intelligence community embrace the idea as a necessary development in modern combat.
Human rights lawyer John Scott, who chairs the Scottish Centre for Human Rights, said: “This is an unwelcome but natural development of what we have seen. I find what is said in this document to be frightening, and it needs serious parliamentary scrutiny.”
Crispin Black – who has worked for the Joint Intelligence Committee, and has been an Army lieutenant colonel, a military intelligence officer, a member of the Defence Intelligence Staff and a Cabinet Office intelligence analyst who briefed Number 10 – said he broadly supported the report as it tallied with the Pentagon’s over-arching vision for “full spectrum dominance” in all military matters.
“I’m all for taking down al-Qaeda websites. Shutting down enemy propaganda is a reasonable course of action. Al-Qaeda is very good at [information warfare on the internet], so we need to catch up. The US needs to lift its game,” he said.
This revolution in information warfare is merely an extension of the politics of the “neoconservative” Bush White House. Even before getting into power, key players in Team Bush were planning total military and political domination of the globe. In September 2000, the now notorious document Rebuilding America’s Defences – written by the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), a think-tank staffed by some of the Bush presidency’s leading lights – said that America needed a “blueprint for maintaining US global pre-eminence, precluding the rise of a great power-rival, and shaping the international security order in line with American principles and interests”.
The PNAC was founded by Dick Cheney, the vice-president; Donald Rumsfeld, the defence secretary; Bush’s younger brother, Jeb; Paul Wolfowitz, once Rumsfeld’s deputy and now head of the World Bank; and Lewis Libby, Cheney’s former chief of staff, now indicted for perjury in America.
Rebuilding America’s Defences also spoke of taking control of the internet. A heavily censored version of the document was released under Freedom of Information legislation to the National Security Archive at George Washington University in the US.
The report admits the US is vulnerable to electronic warfare. “Networks are growing faster than we can defend them,” the report notes. “The sophistication and capability of … nation states to degrade system and network operations are rapidly increasing.”
T he report says the US military’s first priority is that the “department [of defence] must be prepared to ‘fight the net’”. The internet is seen in much the same way as an enemy state by the Pentagon because of the way it can be used to propagandise, organise and mount electronic attacks on crucial US targets. Under the heading “offensive cyber operations”, two pages outlining possible operations are blacked out.
Next, the Pentagon focuses on electronic warfare, saying it must be elevated to the heart of US military war planning. It will “provide maximum control of the electromagnetic spectrum, denying, degrading, disrupting or destroying the full spectrum of communications equipment … it is increasingly important that our forces dominate the electromagnetic spectrum with attack capabilities”. Put simply, this means US forces having the power to knock out any or all forms of telecommunications on the planet.
After electronic warfare, the US war planners turn their attention to psychological operations: “Military forces must be better prepared to use psyops in support of military operations.” The State Department, which carries out US diplomatic functions, is known to be worried that the rise of such operations could undermine American diplomacy if uncovered by foreign states. Other examples of information war listed in the report include the creation of “Truth Squads” to provide public information when negative publicity, such as the Abu Ghraib torture scandal, hits US operations, and the establishment of “Humanitarian Road Shows”, which will talk up American support for democracy and freedom.
The Pentagon also wants to target a “broader set of select foreign media and audiences”, with $161m set aside to help place pro-US articles in overseas media.
Like 70% of America, I have BES sm
(Bush Exasperation Syndrome), same with Congress. I am active in trying to do something about it though. Tommy Chong has common sense, and Paris is just the art of distraction day in and day out by the media to keep people from paying attention to the real issues. Sure wish people would wake up. Real news: 3,682 dead US soliders. Very sad photo from Rosie's blog. http://www.rosie.com/blog/files/headers/53_large_4mkep2w-1.jpg
And that is what America is all about....
finding common ground. I agree also with your points here...and I am not 100% on McCain, there are some issues there too. But he comes way closer to what I think is good for the country than Obama does, and that has to be my main concern in this election. Because of the Dem stand on abortion and spending and many other things, it would be difficult to vote for a Dem anyway who was hard line. Now you take Zell Miller...there is a Democrat I could love. Old school conservative Democrat like a lot of my family. God bless'em. Their party has left them behind. :)
america first
There is no way we can put the world on our shoulders anymore.
That's what America needs!!!
To be yelled at to wake up!!!!!
Maybe you should go back to American Idol, Dancing with the Stars and Survivor and keep focused on those mind-numbing brainless shows for the brain dead while the country goes down the tubes.
As more people lose their jobs and as others' insurance premiums rise to become the most expensive monthly expense, the "majority" may find themselves unemployed, uninsured and unable to afford health insurance.
I became ill six years ago with a disease for which there is no cure, and I've kept trying to work, but over these six years, my income has dwindled very dramatically as a result of my illness and frequent hospitalizations. (As of this date, I've grossed less than $800.00 total for the year 2009, compared to the $40,000 to $44,000 I grossed prior to the onset of my illness.) I've been hospitalized twice this year, and when I'm not in the hospital, I'm trying to treat myself at home rather than be in the hospital. Sometimes it works; sometimes it doesn't. I'm on a multitude of drugs (12 total), including a Duragesic pain patch that I wear 24/7. (This drug is 80 to 100 times more potent than morphine.) This, along with other medications I take, is very expensive. I'm fortunate enough to get most of my medications for free from the manufacturers' patient assistance programs. The others I can find on Walmart's list. The ones that I can't, I'm able to use a little card that I printed from the internet for free, and I receive a pretty substantial discount. (I believe anyone can get one of these; it's called a PS Card. In case you need one, the web address is: http://www.pscard.com/)
In addition, I've recently been diagnosed with major depression (I wonder why!), as well as PTSD (for other personal reasons), and I'm at the point where I'm eligible for and am applying for Medicaid benefits. I can't even begin to describe the shame I feel, since I've worked for 40 of my 56 years on this planet, and I know that eventually, my employer is going to fire me for my lack of production. (So far, she's been very kind and understanding and lets me work when I can.) But I've always been healthy, and I've always been easily able to pay my bills, including my health insurance. The thought that I may now be on the government "dole" is a very disappointing thought for someone who has always worked and has always been independent. Since becoming ill, I've lost my health insurance, my car and even my phone. I'm now barely able to pay my cable internet bill and am jeopardy of losing that, as well. If that happens, then my job will be gone. I certainly need that job much more than my employer needs me at this point, because that job is the only source of self-esteem I have remaining in my life, even though I know my contribution is less than minimal.
Since my initial diagnosis, I lost my health insurance when it rose from $622 to $711 a month. Before being forced to cancel my insurance, I called around to a few insurance companies and was literally laughed at and told there was no way I'd be insured by ANY company with my preexisting condition of pancreatitis. (This was before they discovered I have cystic fibrosis, the cause of the pancreatitis, so I'm now forever uninsurable by for-profit insurance companies.)
I just saw the doctor yesterday, and there's now a lump on my abdomen. He says if it's there a month from now, I need to see a surgeon. (I promised him that it WON'T BE.) That's where I draw the line. If I have no insurance, then NO SURGEONS AND NO SURGERY. Same reason I haven't had a mammogram. If they find something, I just can't deal with incurring astronomic medical bills that I can't possibly pay. We all have to go sometime, and if I'm in that position, then I'll just have to go because quality of life is an important issue, as well, and being hit with bill after bill after bill that can't possibly be paid can seriously destroy anyone's quality of life.
I used to feel like a lot of you on this board feel. However, I'm walking in different shoes now, and that has certainly changed my opinion and forced me to understand how others may be forced to live -- forced -- not through any choice of their own. Though I wouldn't wish "my shoes" on my worst enemy, if I could wave a magic wand and just have someone walk in these shoes for a very brief time, it might help others to understand that there are two sides to every story. If my application for Medicaid is accepted, I will be both relieved and ashamed at the same time, but I just might live longer.
This is the time America comes together.
We roll up our sleeves, and roll up our pant legs and we get in there and help. We know that God is great and prayer never wasted. We lend a helping hand and we volunteer. We contribute to charities. We got and help rebuild. We sink in the mud and we come out victorious. What we don't do is blame our President, make excuses for victims who shoot at their rescuers, who are now also patrolling the streets in full body armour with assault weapons raping women. What is WRONG with you? What has happened to this country that people like you are posting things like this. I must say, I am speechless at your impropriety and lack of willingness to do anything but place blame. Shame on you all!
Wake up America
America is becoming a shadow what it once was. Time to clean house from the president down to our state representative. Whether you be Republican or Democrat we need to get new blood in our government. Everyone needs to get out and vote and remember all of these tragedies. Time has a way of healing and being amnesiac at the poles, remember, always remember.
Below 40%, OMG, America is finally *getting it*
September 10th, 2005 11:57 am President's Approval Rating Dips Below 40
President Bush's job approval has dipped below 40 percent for the first time in the AP-Ipsos poll, reflecting widespread doubts about his handling of gasoline prices and the response to Hurricane Katrina.
Nearly four years after Bush's job approval soared into the 80s after the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, Bush was at 39 percent job approval in an AP-Ipsos poll taken this week. That's the lowest since the the poll was started in December 2003.
The public's view of the nation's direction has grown increasingly negative as well, with nearly two-thirds now saying the country is heading down the wrong track.
marks the location of current message within thread
