Obama is not going for socialized medicine -
Posted By: Amanda on 2008-10-28
In Reply to: Anyone who thinks that socialized medicine is a good idea - Kendra
Obama's plan just involves making sure affordable insurance is available for everyone. He is not mandating that you all use government hospitals or government sponsored clinics. He is saying that he wants insurance for every person in America.
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And as to socialized medicine leading to a socialized country....
it has to start somewhere, piglet. It has already started in this country with all the entitlements. Adding health care is one more nail in the proverbial coffin. And as you seek to move entitlements further and further up the income ladder, you create a wider disparity and destroy the middle class. That is how it starts. That is how it started everywhere. A good idea gone bad, just like so many others. The more power you place in one area, and the more choice you take away from the "people" the closer you get. It looks good to start. Then pretty soon the government starts to control businesses, so that eventually everyone "works for the government." When people begin to wake up and realize what is going on...and start to protest it or try to bring it into the light...then the government starts to control media (aka Chavez shutting down a TV station). It is not a leap. It is a slow, malicious process. Socialist Germany started out that way. Germans thought it was great, and it was, until Hitler rose to power. Then it was too late. When you concentrate too much power over the everyday lives of the people and make them dependent upon the state for the necessities...we are already headed that way with people dependent for income, and now you want them to be depenent for health care as well. What's next, Piglet? You tell me.
I have lived to see enough "that would never happens" that DID happen to know. And if you will read history, you will see that what I have said is borne out. In a person's desire to have everything provided for them, every time that happens, control is relinquished to the government. That is where it starts.
Nobody is saying socialized medicine
they are saying set up an insurance program that we would still have to pay for!
Under the socialized medicine system........sm
which is basically what Obama is pushing for, you might get some health care, but I sure hope you don't need a hip replacement or other specialized care. Just ask our neighbors to the north how long they have to wait for a hip replacement.
Brian Day, former president of the Canadian Medical Association, remarked that Canada "is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two to three years."
Medicines will be rationed and forget about getting treatment for pesky things like cancer if you are over a certain age or have other comorbid conditions.
Anyone who thinks that socialized medicine is a good idea
should try out military medicine for awhile and see how it goes!
socialized firefighting in ca
I think Libby meant her/his post as tongue in cheek. Obviously Bush had nothing to do with the fires. My post about socialized firefighting is the truth. The govt pays for firefighting in CA. It is a govt job. CA could never exist with volunteer firefighters like in some parts of the USA.
Socialized health care = semantics...
what it boils down to is, when you have the federal government start administering all health care, quality of care will go down, not up, and access to care will be even more difficult. You cited Medicare and Medicaid...both rife with waste and fraud. We read about it every other day. The VA system for soldiers is federally run...tell me how well THAT is working, and that is not for every person in the US. I would like a poll of rank and file Canadians...I would like to know what individuals think of their health system. The only one I saw quoted said 55% of his paycheck is taken off the top for taxes, and a large part of that is what funds the health care system. There ARE waiting lists for operations. And even if you have the money privately to pay for your own operation if time constraint is involved, you are NOT allowed to jump the "list." That is why many Canadians cross the border for emergent care and surgery. Just a couple of weeks ago there was the story of the two women with high-risk pregnancies who could not be hospitalized because there was nowhere to put them. They ended up in Seattle.
So no thanks. I would much rather have a full cost of premiums tax refund, which is what some have proposed. Yeah, you will still have to cough up the premiums for a year, but then if you take your refund at the end of the year and put it in the bank...voila. There are your premiums for the next year. And we can keep the quality of care we have and the access we have.
That would be my choice, far, far ahead of any kind of federal government subsidized and administered health care...which is what Hillary is proposing, only calling it "universal" instead of socialized. Same difference.
This taste of your own medicine has been
nm
Is it time for your medicine?
su
I hear a lot about medicine....(sm)
but that doesn't make me a doctor, and I certainly would not try to treat a patient. The whole idea of reporting the news is just that....reporting....as opposed to making the news.
Can someone please explain to me the "socialized medicine"?
What do you mean about socialized medicine that Obama wants?
I understand your view of 'socalized' medicine
I have heard the horror stories from people from Canada, so you'll get no argument from me there.
When you have group coverage through an employer, they cannot deny you. However, I have found that some still require you to wait out the pre-existing condition time period (usually 12 months). As most employers require full-time for insurance benefits, you HAVE to work full time for this.
If you are trying to get individual health insurance on your own, I found out the hard way that they can absolutely deny you. (I did not know that, I was naive I guess and thought that they could use the pre-existing condition clause, but I never knew they could flat out deny you). That is the problem I have - that people can be totally denied. I have no problem paying for insurance for 12 months while the bills continue to rack up because they're not covered, I understand that it's business. However, I don't think they should be able to deny people based on a condition or illness (isn't that descrimination?) I think the insurance companies should have some limits on what they are allowed to do, such as denying coverage.
There are also other issues with the insurance company essentially dictating patient care, but it's getting late and I'm sleepy! :) Thanks for explaining your view!
This post really makes me WANT to vote for Obama. I am undecided, but this pushes me closer to Obama
...Thanks for the info!
Obama was cool, while grouchy man steamed. Obama!!!
I'm so happy. The dippy people on here who are haters and racists and mccain lovers must be so po'd today. HAHAHAHAHAHA
If Obama gets elected, then it was meant to be! Go, Obama!
nm
Go Obama/Biden! I don't like it and will VOTE OBAMA/BIDEN!
Obama has shown great judgment in the people who surround him. He picked a great VP choice, and his wife is impeccable as a helpmate and is a fantastic role model for the American children.
Obama
I believe Obama has an awesome political future. He sure is a bright light, and he would be someone I would seriously consider voting for.
Someone I like even better is Rep. Harold Ford from Tennessee. Every time I hear this man speak, I like him more and more and more.
I think there are lots of good candidates out there who don't fit the profiles you outlined, which I also believe to be true, and I think we're well overdue in considering those candidates because, in my opinion, what we've been offered in the last several elections -- on BOTH sides -- has been pretty pitiful. The "box" isn't working, and it's time to look outside of it.
Obama is the man!!!
I think he will make an excellent president some day. Maybe Hillary/Obama would be a good ticket choice.
obama
FYI - he never attended a midrasha. This was later corrected.
Obama 08...nm
Obama et. al.
If we get Obama or any of the other candidates we will get more of the same. War and taxes. Empire building. If you like that kind of stuff, vote for any of the candidates EXCEPT.......... RON PAUL. The only candidate for peace, limited government and minding our own business. 
Obama
As I posted on the other board, it is crazy that in one breath people are freaking out saying he is a Muslim, and in the next one, they are freaking out because of his stand on abortion. Being pro-choice really does not go with being a Muslim.
I like Obama, and I like his stance on choice. I really could care less if he is a Muslim. But, he belongs to a Christian church and has for over 20 years, before he had a political career.
People never cease to amaze me!
Obama
My husband just returned from Iraq, we support the war-- but if I had to vote democrat, definitely Obama, please!! But I vote republican, hee hee.
Go Obama!
What a great victory for Obama!
Did anyone see the Kennedy’s endorsement for Obama and his speech this morning? I have never been more excited and inspired in politics. In my life I’ve voted both sides (usually not voting for a candidate but rather voting for the other side as a vote against a candidate). I usually tune out in politics because of outright lies. Barack is the first candidate that I finally understand what he stands for, what his plans are, and he is someone who can connect with everyone in every walk of life. He is a trustworthy, inspiring, and humble person and his voting record and other aspects of his government life give me the confidence that he would be a great president. Listening to his speeches gives me hope for a better country/future for everyone.
I respect everyone’s choice for who they think would be a better president, but I’m sick to death of Clinton and what she stands for. All you have to do is read up on the history of her and what she did when she resided in Oakland California (who her mentors/ colleagues were and what her motives/plans are). She claims to have all this “experience” but doesn’t have it. She takes what her husband accomplished and if it was something good she claims credit to it and if it was bad she had nothing to do with it. Meanwhile her husband is so consumed/greedy (not sure which word best suits him – maybe consumed with greed) to get back into the white house that he is purposely destroying the opponents (even Ted Kennedy had to call and admonish him), but that is the Clinton legacy, destroying other people’s lives. Then when someone does call him on something he will point his finger at them in a threatening way and plays the victim role. It makes me ill just thinking of having someone as corrupt as both of them back in the white house.
If Bill was such a great president they should bring up all the great things that happened under his presidency, but we are not hearing any of it, why? Because there is none. In my opinion he was one of the worst presidents in history. Not one thing he did was for the good of the country. And if anyone believes that she was such a “good wife” while he was out messing around with other women think again. She had her mind set on being president a long time ago. She just uses him to get what she wants. Everything she does has always been calculated.
As for his presidency, I think people are forgetting….he lied under oath and he was impeached for it. Which brings me to another question…why does anyone believe anything he has to say now? Remember the phrase “that all depends on what the meaning of is, is”. Then there was Waco Texas – people were burned alive. But they called them members of a cult, so I guess that made it okay. Then let’s see…Somalia, Bosnia, Monica (and no it wasn’t just about having an affair with her or all the other women), receiving illegal contributions, Vince Foster, and the list goes on and on and on.
An article I just read said it better than I can….
“The problem for Hillary Clinton is that, as usual, she wants it both ways. She wants to be judged on her own merits and not be treated as Bill's Mini-Me. But she also wants to reap the benefits of Bill's popularity, and offers voters the reassuring suggestion that if there's a crisis while she's in the White House, there will be someone around who really does have executive branch experience - namely, Bill - to lend a hand. But the Clintons are playing a dangerous game. The more they remind us of what we liked about Act I of the Bill and Hillary Show, the more they also remind us of what we hated.
If you are interested in reading the whole article this is the link…
http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/op_ed/hc-brooks0128.artjan28,0,7018385.story
Obama
He would be better than the one that has been there for 8 years. No matter who is elected, it will take a long time to fix what Bush as screwed up!
<3 Obama too!!
:)
Obama
If she keeps lying from today until November she might actually catch up with Obama!
Go Obama
Haven't seen any posts here for awhile. Very excited about the outcome of tonight's election. I am so glad to see that people are not buying the "gimmicks" Hillary proposed. Gas tax holiday?...give me a break! Someone needed to ask her, "So what happens when the holiday is over", you charge back up the gas price!
The big joke is that Bill Clinton raised the gas tax in his first year in office. It was included in a package of tax increases that amounted to the biggest tax increase in history. It was raised by 4.3 cents. Not only did he raise the gas tax, but he wanted to raise it even higher.
So you should all get this straight...Hillary is "claiming" she would give drivers 3 whole months (wow - imagine that) 18 cent a gallon cut after her husband forced drivers to pay an extra 5 cents for 15 years.
Unfortunately there were some people who bought into her pandering (which by the way is another word for lying), but thank goodness enough people with an education and most important most of the with common sense could see right through her lies.
Way to go North Carolina - I'm so pleased. And Indiana too. It was a close race thank goodness.
Now she needs to step down. Why? Because its the right thing to do. Do the numbers. There is no way she can win and anyone who believes so needs to wake up. What we need is for her to support Barack Obama (that is if she's telling the truth about the most important thing is nominating a democrat for president). Somehow though I do not believe she has the best interest of the party or the american people in mind. Her goal is to serve herself. She needs to graciously bow out and put all her efforts into getting a democrat in the office.
P.S. - Note to the "ditto heads". Maybe we should rename Limbaugh followers "dumbo heads". Not only did your little plan fail Mr. Limbo, but it failed badly. In a poll taken (and yes I know polls can be misleading), but not only did the republicans change parties to vote for a democrat but the majority of them voted for Obama. Then on top of that over 75% of republicans that voted as democrats said that Obama could be McCain (or as I am hearing him being referred to as McBush), but only around 25% said they believed Hillary could win. So not only does Hillary need to do the math, so does Mr. Limbo.
Obama
Is Barack Hussein Obama the Antichrist?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=94d_1202965504
I am for Obama because...
My point in fact is agreeing with the republicans in that Obama does not have a lot of experience - I think not having a lot of experience is a good thing because it means he is not "hand-in-hand" with all the people that have been in charge for so long - he can form his own opinions, make his own decisions, and not go with somebody just because they did this or that for somebody or they contributed this or that to somebody...
No, Obama gets it better than many do
Check out this award-winning article written by Fareed Zakaria, a foreign policy expert, right after 9/11 called "Why They Hate Us" - http://www.fareedzakaria.com/ARTICLES/newsweek/101501_why.html
Most people at that time (myself included) said that question was irrelavant, but understanding why they some have those attitudes helps us understand better what the U.S. can do to help change it. The fringe extremists will never go away, but their support by the general Muslim community as a whole will diminish (and already is). Free markets and capitalism would go a long way toward this goal and I think Obama gets that.
obama wants to be GOD
He wants to change the structure of the U.S. and he wants to bargain with and change the structure of Europe.. He is a destroyer.
obama
Muslims are dedicated to destroying the US from within. Obama is Muslim.
Obama..........
I think the pictures speak for themselves....although there will be plenty of Obama lovers who will sing his praises and find excuse after excuse why the flat is no longer on the plane. He could have just as easily left the flag and put his little slogan on there with it, but chose to remove the flag altogether. Speaks volumes!!!!
Obama is Muslim, will always be Muslim, and it is very disturbing to me that anyone would want a Muslim president. No Muslims have ever spoken out about 9/11 which also speaks volumes!! He has learned his Muslim faith from a young child, and the little boys are taught to hate the US and anyone who isn't them...he is no different. There are too may who sing his praises but refuse to state the obvious. Just because they hate republicans sure doesn't mean you put the fox in charge of the hen house. At no time during his speeches have I ever heard him speak of his love for the United States. He just repeats over and over where he came from, who raised him, and what their faiths were, and folks better open their ears and listen up.
No candidate for President of this country would so boldy make a point of getting rid of the very thing that is such a strong symbol of this country. Try doing that in another country and you will be hauled off to jail....the end!!
And, I don't want to hear about this is a free country and he can do what he wants. The whole point of this "free" country is to support the US and our beliefs, not Muslim beliefs which are definitely that of hate. A lot of feathers will be ruffled with this comment, but I really don't care to sugar coat the facts just because some hate republicans or other parties to the point they will accept anything in the white house....a wolf in sheep's clothing, and there will be MANY because of their hatred for the other candidate, who will be sucked into his beliefs as well.
Obama
You know, there is not a nickel's worth of difference between any of them. They all have ghosts in their closets. They just hope we do not find out about them. Bush Sr. had a girlfriend while he was in service. Eisenhower did, LBJ was a womanizer. Jimmy Carter is a good human, still working for Habitat and the poor people. Bush Jr. used cocaine while he was at Camp David about 10 years or so ago. Not that long ago. Let's not forget John Edwards. Like I said there are no clean cut guys or ladies. We do not know that much about OBama yet. I have my doubts about him. He came out of nowhere, too strong and the younger population fell for whatever he has said.
EVERYTHING YOU SAY ABOUT HER CAN BE SAID ABOUT OBAMA!
I can see your problem with McCain but every bash you make about her is the same about Obama. No experience for either of them, at least she's got EXECUTIVE experience. Tell me, what kind of foreign policy knowledge does Obama have again? Oh wait, that's why he chose Biden as his running mate. No matter what you people say, I believe it was a good choice, because she represents something new and exciting, just like Obama himself!
Obama
It is interesting that she would use his whole name..kind of makes you wonder..I noticed that she does NOT use the whole names of the other candidates but several times I have seen postings on this board..so what if he has a middle name that is Arabic..
Obama
He's just a talking head, somebody's puppet, aint nothing without his teleprompter and written speeches...gimme a break!
Right, Obama has run nothing!
nm
And yet Obama wants to
help these people so they can continue to sit on their butts and do something while the rest of us bust our humps. No thank you!
Obama: It's about you, not me."
With RNC behind us now, dems are faced with the daunting challenge of making the 2008 election a referendum on issues, not a personality contest. Here are 2 links that got thrown under the bash bus.
http://www.alternet.org/election08/97198/top_ten_most_disturbing_facts_and_impressions_of_sarah_palin/
http://www.alternet.org/election08/97350/8_more_shocking_revelations_about_sarah_palin/?page=3
Though the title of these articles may lead one to conclude it is more about Palin bashing, there is a gold mine of pertinent information to be found there. Embedded within the articles are more links that are overwhelming on first inspection, but well worth the time it takes to review them. Laid out there between the lines is a structured blueprint for facing the upcoming 60 days with effective campaign strategy.
There is another post that also got buried in the mud which will be brought back up to the top momentarily on issues. If it get buries again, it will be brought back up to the top again. The bashes it may inspire will be ignored. The issues will continue to get the focus.
There is another battleground in this election aside from the issues push. It is the one fought on the field of values and vision; specifically, the Obama vision versus the McCain/Palin vision of what kind of America they/we see in our futures and what sort of change each candidate promises to deliver. The link below is an article that addresses this subject. It is a self-effacing piece I believe dems should take to heart when considering how to frame their upcoming campaign tactics. Here's that link.
http://www.alternet.org/election08/97193/the_palin_choice%3A_the_reality_of_voters%27_minds/
The introduction to this post expresses a basic premise from which I will be operating. I will not be diminishing the power of Obama's message by indulging in petty squabbles, dead-end distractions, one-upmanship and a race to get the last word. There is important work here, people, and we best rolls up our sleeves and get started.
Obama to appear on
Countdown Monday night. Can't wait.
Obama - do as I say, not as I do
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/08/obamas_craftiness.html
No, that is what they all DO. Obama is the one...
who says do as I say, not as I do.
This is an out and out lie. Obama
will give small-business taxcuts and taxcuts to businesses who will keep jobs in America. Get it straight!
Obama/PP
The Messiah camp rips a McCain ad citing Obama's support for a kindergarten
sex ed bill, calling it a lie. But we have Obama on tape (and video) telling a Planned Parenthood crowd: "It's the right thing to do."
Are you saying Obama was
under your bed? I read the black arms and then the rest and can only see the reason to post this on a politics board is . . .
If you believe that Obama does not have a ....
socialist agenda and Joe Biden was not wrong in his initial assessment of Obama....
The same old Obama...
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/obama-voted-for-sex-ed-for-kindergartners
Video here, plus the actual language of the sex ed bill.
obama does not have
a beard, honey. Once again, you are mixing up Obama and Osama. Not r-e-a-l bright.
Right on, Sam. Obama is on TV right now, saying
nm
I was pro Obama too
I was so much for Obama, arguing with people on this board, arguing with my MIL and anyone who spoke out against Obama. I absolutely hated Hillary but mostly because of her husband and what he did to us (this country). But now finding out all this info about Obama is really worrisome and I don't like it. I have to say having a new plan sounds great (the last 8 years have not been fun and joy), but Obama's plan that's coming to light is pretty darn scary, and that's why I've been comparing each candidate's plan and will choose which I like better. But Obama's plans for all these socialist programs that we will have to pay for, and the people he associates himself with, and especially the people who are in charge of him (the ones who pay his salary and tell him what he will do) are some of the scariest. Obama's ideologies are scary and worrisome. Everyone kiss their freedoms goodbye if he gets in. The tax things worry me so much. We need to move forward in our lives, not go back to the way it was when Clinton was in office. Taxes were over 40% of our paycheck and even then at the end of the year they told us we didn't pay enough and I'd end up making payments through the next year (which took me all of about the whole year to pay off, before it was time to file again and take another loan to pay the next years taxes). McCain and Palin at least offer hope. I haven't heard McCain interviewed yet but Palin is very smart when it comes to knowing how to balance a budget, knowing how to get the economy back on track, and especially knowing the way to create wealth for people is not punishing them by taxing them more. She's smart on getting the country becoming energency independent and the path and she and McCain I feel is the right path, and believe they can lead us in the right direction. I read all the attacks on Palin and they are just nasty nasty and for now good reason. Now I read an article that SNL did a skit suggesting T Palin had sex with his daughter?????? That is not a joke because some nut bags out there will actually believe it.
I believe McCain/Palin will be the best choice for America and I will keep on defending them.
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