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Plumber and back pedaling. s/m

Posted By: gourdpainter on 2008-10-16
In Reply to: For all those O lovers who jumped on the plumber - bandwagon ............. MSMT

I am not about to back pedal.  1)  Anyone knows that a plumber doesn't make $250,000 annually.  2)  Anyone who has ever paid a plumber knows that a PLUMBING CONTRACTOR could make $250,000 and more.


Joe the Plumber doesn't look or act smart enough to be a plumbing contractor and making $40,000 annually it's not likely he could buy a plumbing business.  But then on the other hand, my plumber son laughs and says, "all you have to know to be a plumber is that sh!t doesn't run uphill and that payday is on Friday."  LOL  Hearing JM talk, one would think "his buddy, Joe the Plumber" was the greatest thing since sliced bread.




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Joe the Plumber had to get back in the spotlight -
http://www.comcast.net/news/video/958491392/plumberappalledbymccainposition/
Did Joe the Plumber ever pay his back taxes?
nm
Just Like Joe the Plumber...
Her 15 minutes of fame.
Joe the Plumber

How many of us employ attorneys?  Do you have a publicist?  Are you in the middle of negotiating a book deal?  There must be thousands of middle class citizens trying to close a contract on a country and western CD release.  Thinking about running for Congress?  Stumping for the reds, declaring in no uncertain terms Obama is Marxist for reasons you cannot put your finger on and is anti-Israel for reasons you cannot explain?  I can't decide who is better at the snow job...McCain with his Joe the Plumber get-out-the-vote chant or Joe the Plumber with his 15-minute opportunism.  Judgment?  Vet deficit?  Makes a mockery of his own campaign, still in search of a coherent message and no identifiable theme in sight. 


Exactly right!...Joe, the Plumber
himself said that he was CALLED and told to go this this rallye!
I wonder what else they told him?
Joe the Plumber?

We need to get out of cartoon land and realize that we've made the right decision. 


How many posts have you seen where our wages are falling?  Can we fix it?  Yes we can and not by giving in to the criticism by the republicans with statements like "I'll qualify for food stamps." 


That Joe guy isn't even a licensed plumber
He is thinking of buying a plumbing business. You don't have to be licensed in Ohio. You can say plumbers are not rich but he is planning on making over $250K. Get your head out of your...
The plumber would be making $250 k and
it would be 36 percent tax and 39 percent, which is 3 percent more, on the amount over 250K. That's pretty rich. Keep on typing, dope.
Poor Joe the Plumber is going to have
to worry about paying taxes. Turns out he doesn't have a plumber's license nor does his employer which is required by the county. No license, no work, no taxes. Poor Joe.
Google Joe the plumber 40,000 and
nm
Joe The Plumber Rocks

Funny how this plumber was the go-to guy until he struck a cord with "regular Americans."  The drive-bys loathe him, and also have no clue how hard he works.  When he dropped the "S" (socialism) card, they went totally nuts. 


This is a perfect example of elitism.  They just don't get it that he wants to decide how he'll spend his own money.  For those of you who are too insecure to make those decisions, go ahead, but leave the rest of us alone!


Are y'all really so pathetic that you don't trust your own judgement as to how to spend your own money?  Look at how well the gov't handles things already:  Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the mail service, etc.?


Unbelievable! 


You know well I was not talking about Joe the NON-plumber!
/
What about his comment to Joe the Plumber?
I mean I know Joe has been discredited, but Obama did say he was going to take some from Joe to help out those below him. That's basically the same thing isn't it?

Like I've said before, I have no issue with helping legitimately needy people. But there are so many people out there who are just LAZY and unwilling to work and having more and more children just to get more foodstamps that it's not fair. We don't need to tax more. We need to take a good long hard look at our welfare program and the participants and weed out the ones who are just using the system.

Last weekend we had a community clean up day at our church. Our church is in the middle of a trailer park community with a lot of Hispanic, black, and white members, all low income, all living in suboptimal living conditions. We went around and picked up trash on the road and helped people clean trash out of their yards. Our hope was to help the community take pride in where they live and to come alongside one another to make it a cleaner and safer place for them and their children. Out of at least 100 residents in that area, maybe 3 helped us. Most of them just watched, and some even got upset when we couldn't get everything out of their yards. Instead of coming out and working alongside us, some acted like it was owed to them. Now of course being a church our main hope was to build relationships and eventually teach them about Jesus, but our short term hope was just to build a sense of community in this down trodden area.

I stopped and talked to one girl, about my age, who has two small children, 3 and 1, I believe. She asked me why I didn't have a child yet. I told her that besides the fact that I'm still in school, we can't afford to have kids yet. She said "Oh don't worry! If you can't afford it the state will take care of them for you!" She told me she doesn't work, but her boyfriend does. They won't get married because she might lose her "benefits". I offered to set her up with one of the girls in my youth class that babysits if she wanted to get a part time job, but she doesn't want to work. And I don't think it was because she wants to be home with her children. At any rate, welfare is not supposed to be a way for you to be a stay at home mom.

That line of thinking is all too common nowadays. Would my husband and I like to have a child? Yes, definitely. I have always wanted to be a young mom (not like 16, but early 20s). But it would be selfish of us to have a child knowing we can't afford to take care of one right now.

We have to stop enabling this laziness and lack of ambition. I think Obama should at least hold off on the taxing if he becomes president until there is a thorough investigation into our welfare system. If he wants to create more jobs, hire a slew of caseworkers to work one on one with these families who have been on welfare for so long and find out WHY. It's supposed to be a helping hand in times of need, not a way of living.

Another thing I fear is the fact that with a democratic congress and president, very soon it may be so a preacher cannot preach what is in the Bible in a church. As a Christian, I'm sure you know that the Bible speaks against other false religions. From what I understand with talking with my father-in-law a.k.a. my pastor, there are issues being discussed that will limit what he can say from the podium. Now my FIL is not a hateful man by any means, but he is going to preach straight from the Bible, and he isn't just going to skip parts that may offend someone else. I don't know the whole story behind this, but if it's true, we may be in for more trouble then we imagine.

All we can pray for is that God will work in the heart of whomever gets into the white house and our senate and congress. But the more and more I see, I truly believe judgment is coming upon us.


or a plumber in hot pants
:)
plumber lied about

his plans to buy a business as he had no money.  No plumbing license.  Owed back taxes.  Was on welfare. He was a fictious dupe who tried to grab the spotlight for his own fortune.  How's that book and record deal going?


 


Yes, Joe was an actual plumber...

...living in Ohio, throwing a football with his son in the front yard when the whole Obamarama came down his street and Obama invited Joe to ask a question.  Joe asked:  If you are elected, are you going to raise my taxes?   Obama answered:  It's good to spread the wealth around and give everyone the advantages you've had. 


Joe was obviously planted in his own front yard just to sandbag Obama with a trick question and entrap him into revealing the true agenda.  Republicans are so devious!


What happened after this was extremely interesting.  Media started to investigate Joe as though he were a candidate, not just Joe Citizen. 


They unearthed and published the information that he was not even a licensed plumber.  (In fact, no license was legally required because he was an employee,  although he was working toward buying the plumbing business.)  His trash was stolen from in front of his house - a standard investigative technique. Joe's driving record was accessed - illegally - and details made public.   I think I even remember hearing he owed some money to the IRS. 


His OJFS records were accessed several times (Ohio Job and Family Services are the ones who administer unemployment, child support, etc.) and, mysteriously, information about his divorce and child support ended up in the news.  The (dem) head of OJFS then tried to cover by saying this is common practice anytime a person becomes a celebrity.  However, this was easily disproved.  (The woman was allowed to resign.  She and two assistants are the ones being sued.) 


All for having the poor judgment to ask a question of Obama, when invited to.  A lot has been said over the yeas about Nixon and his enemies list,  but our new president is someone not to be crossed, not by a Joe Citizen, certainly not by a Limbaugh. 


Get 'em, Joe!


Then go be a plumber and stop bitching about
!!
For all those O lovers who jumped on the plumber

Obama stated today, while trying to turn the plumber thing back towards McCain as if he NEVER said "spread the wealth" this.......


"How many of you know a plumber that makes half a million dollars?".  McCain never said that, Obama did.  Obama told the plumber that the business he was looking at buying which may or may not make 250K would be taxed to "spread the wealth" around.  Boy, he's desperate now. 


Now for all those O lovers who have had such a hatred all of a sudden of a "rich" plumber, how ya gonna back peddle on that one?  You and Obama need to get on the same page...... now even Obama says a plumber can't make 250K!  What a joke he is.


 


uhh... Joe the Plumber is not running for VP, leave
nm
If SP and Joe The Plumber have saved McCain, God help us all! n/m
!
Plumber does not mitigate fact that McC has yet
in debates/stump. That's why O is leading among middle class voters in the polls. Joe the plumber was not exactly dealing with a full deck. Democrat party embodies a huge chunk of HONEST hard-working class Americans and the next time the party vets a poster boy, they might try to come up with something more plausible and bust-proof in terms of verifiable background.

The unlicensed one posed the question of tax. Raising taxes and giving tax cuts are American as apple pie and are a practices employed by both political parties. No need to go bonkers over the "S" card since it is a word-mince game conjured up by a desperate campaign to muddy the econmic waters and run the clock out in terms of avoiding McClone's 90% W support and the mirror image he projects to voters in terms of the current economic crisis.

Aren't we full of paradox this morning? First we're deadbeats, then we are elite. This camp cannot demonstrate even the most rudimentary understanding of basic economic concepts, unless of course that "E" card is meant as a slam toward educated folks who make them feel insecure and defensive.

We do not need your advice on what we should be examining. What we are looking at here are our mounting credit card bills, some of which are hiking interest rates into the 22% category, our frozen banks and their stocks being bought up with tax bucks, the foreclosed homes that are dotting our landscape and bringing down our property values, bail-out schemes that tax our great-grandchildren, AIG spa parties and pheasant hunts, the stock market roller coaster, 401Ks diminished by 38% in value, skyrocketing cost of food, job losses, plunging retail index going into the holiday season, rising unemployment, job losses, stagnant wages, inaccessible health care coverage, obscene costs of medical care and prescription drugs...all in the afermath of trickle down.
This Joe the Plumber is supposed to represent

Well this is a quote from Joe the Plumber.


"The media's worried about whether I've paid my taxes, they're worried about any number of silly things that have nothing to do with America," Wurzelbacher told the former Republican presidential hopeful on his show, "Huckabee."


This is what is so funny.  In Joe's eyes "taxes" are silly things.  So, you see he's not worried at all about his taxes being raised IF he were to purchase a company.  He thinks taxes are silly and have nothing to do with America.  So, you don't think we're footing this Joe the Plumber's bill already?????    He can't even pay his own taxes.  How will he ever purchase a company worth more than $250,000.00 with an "outstanding" bill?


Obama said...from his own mouth...to Joe the Plumber....
when Joe said, "Why do you want to tax me more?" to which Obama replied: "It's not that I want to tax you more. I think the guys below Joe deserve a shot too." I agree with that..just not the way Obama wants. They deserve the SAME shot JOE had. Work several years to GET to the point where you can buy a business...like JOE has. Don't TAX the JOES of the world MORE so you can cut people who have not worked that hard a check for which they did NOTHING. That is not fair, gourdpainter. No way is that FAIR.

Why not have a straight across the board percentage tax, no deductions, no NOTHING. Yes, the rich would pay more than the poor because they make more, but it would be FAIR. It would not be taxing any class of people at a HIGHER rate and divying it out to the ones below them who did NOTHING to earn it.

Obama is a socialist. He says so in his plans, he said so to Joe the Plumber. Why aren't you listening?
:-)
AMEN COREY!!!! We need more like you and Joe the plumber. nm
nm
here was Joe the Plumber and then Rick Santelli. nm
xxx
Joe the plumber not licensed, makes $40,000 a year,
a registered republican.  What a difference a day makes. 
There is no relevance to explain. Joe the unlicensed plumber
nm
McCain has 2 gimmicks Palin and Joe the Plumber sm
Joe is not even licensed and he makes $40K a year. He will benefit under Barack's plan but he is such a redneck he is brainwashed and probably watches Fox. He was not just discovered either.
McCain cheapens his campaign with the plumber sm
McCain Pals With Plumber, Cheapens Campaign: Margaret Carlson

Commentary by Margaret Carlson


Oct. 17 (Bloomberg) -- You'd hope a process that we've had 40 years to improve would be better than our presidential debates. We've tweaked around the edges, and one moderator beats a panel of them. Bob Schieffer did a superior job and was persistent at Wednesday night's debate. Yet no moderator is ever going to get the candidates to talk to each other, much less look one another in the eye.

Why not no moderator? It worked for the Lincoln-Douglas debates, where people stood in the hot sun for hours to listen.

The most dispiriting thing to come out of the debate was the morning after. I woke to see Joe Wurzelbacher's street in Holland, Ohio, lit up like Times Square with network and cable satellite trucks clogging the place.

I thought the press was beyond 23 mentions of Joe the Plumber by one candidate and three by the other, while Asian markets were dropping 10 percent and the Dow has been diving.

Unless he starts making courtesy calls to fix the running toilets of the journalists making him famous, let's relegate Joe the Plumber back to the playroom with Bob the Builder or the 15- minute hall of fame with Harry and Louise and Ross Perot's crazy aunt in the attic.

Here's the reason for Joe: McCain has no argument left except that no one should have to pay taxes, and that Obama isn't one of us.

Distasteful Tactics

He gave up the experience argument by choosing Sarah Palin. By his own admission, McCain was never on top of the economy, and his performance since the financial crisis began, lurching from one pronouncement to another, proved his self-assessment right.

What McCain has instead are the distasteful tactics pressed on him by his consultants, the very ones who defamed him in his 2000 race for the presidency.

That's where ``Obama is palling around with terrorists'' comes from. It's why in the final debate, more time was spent on a radical bomb-thrower from the ླྀs, William Ayers, than Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and his so-far-unsuccessful attempts to stop a market meltdown.

At first, I thought McCain was going to drop Ayers when he said he didn't care about ``an old, washed-up terrorist.'' Then he pivoted and demanded to know ``the full extent'' of his relationship with Obama.

Happy to Oblige

Obama was happy to oblige. Ayers, who committed his violent acts when Obama was a boy, is not and never has been involved in his campaign. Obama condemned his ``despicable acts'' and pointed out that he once served on a board with Ayers that was filled with Republican luminaries and funded by another one, Walter Annenberg. Thanks to McCain, Obama got to explain that before 30 million people.

McCain also gave Obama a chance to answer another charge. McCain is trying to make an oak out of Acorn, a community- organizing group that runs voter-registration drives. McCain said Acorn was about to perpetrate the biggest voter fraud in history, ``destroying the fabric of democracy.''

Acorn doesn't register voters; only state officials can do that. The false names collected are easy to spot. It's an urban myth that Donald Duck and Harry Potter end up voting. The ones that slip through are infinitesimal.

Old Hat

Obama explained his prior association. ``I represented them alongside the U.S. Justice Department'' enforcing the Illinois motor-voter law.

It's old hat for Republicans to cry voter fraud just the way Democrats cry voter suppression for purged lists, long lines and election-day challenges. If I show up on the list as Margaret B. Carlson but I've since dropped the B and have a driver's license that says Margaret Carlson, I might be turned away.

Most of McCain's anger was non-verbal -- in his tense, coiled body, eye-rolls, sniffing, and forced smiles. He had to know Ayers wasn't going to work. But there comes a moment when a candidate has to fluff up the base or find himself lonely.

Already, McCain has lost the support of some brand-name conservatives with his choice of Palin as a running mate. The latest is author Christopher Buckley, who had to resign from National Review, the magazine his father, William Buckley, founded, for his apostasy.

Following Rush

With Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity attacking Ayers for three weeks, McCain would have been fired by his own party before the election if he'd held back.

I'm not sure he can count on Palin anymore. She told Limbaugh she had nothing to lose, and she's acting like it. She was openly critical of McCain's decision to pull out of Michigan, and insisted that she and her husband would happily campaign there.

She's supposed to wield a hatchet, not throw bombs. The one genuine emotional moment in the debate came when McCain said how saddened he was about Representative John Lewis's reaction to the hateful language at Palin's rallies. Obama agreed that Lewis went too far in coupling McCain with George Wallace, but the rebuke stung.

Only a short time ago, McCain had named Lewis as one of his heroes.

Those writing McCain's obituary (which I'm not; he lost the debates not the election) wrongly say that Palin wins no matter what. The campaign has revealed a petty politician who misused her office, got revenge on her enemies, turned on fellow Republicans when it suited her ambitions, and violated ethics laws by trying to get her brother-in-law fired.

McCain's best chance of winning is by doing what he did when his campaign was pronounced dead last year. Fire people. Drop the cheap shots. Go out on your own and barnstorm the country. Be serious about the broken country President George W. Bush is leaving us. Reclaim the patrimony of the McCains and win -- or lose -- with honor.

Government computers used to check out Joe the Plumber...






Investigators trying to determine whether access was illegal
Friday, October 24, 2008 8:57 PM
By Randy Ludlow

The Columbus Dispatch
"State and local officials are investigating if state and law-enforcement computer systems were illegally accessed when they were tapped for personal information about "Joe the Plumber."

Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher became part of the national political lexicon Oct. 15 when Republican presidential candidate John McCain mentioned him frequently during his final debate with Democrat Barack Obama.

The 34-year-old from the Toledo suburb of Holland is held out by McCain as an example of an American who would be harmed by Obama's tax proposals.

Public records requested by The Dispatch disclose that information on Wurzelbacher's driver's license or his sport-utility vehicle was pulled from the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles database three times shortly after the debate.

Information on Wurzelbacher was accessed by accounts assigned to the office of Ohio Attorney General Nancy H. Rogers, the Cuyahoga County Child Support Enforcement Agency and the Toledo Police Department.

It has not been determined who checked on Wurzelbacher, or why. Direct access to driver's license and vehicle registration information from BMV computers is restricted to legitimate law enforcement and government business.

Obama made it very clear to Joe the Plumber....
Were you listening? He explained it very clearly. He was going to tax Joe at a higher rate and give that money to people "below Joe" so "they would have a chance too." That is NOT American, that is socialism. Out of Obama's own mouth. The man is a socialist, and because you refuse to see it or see it and don't care, it does not make it less true.

To use your words...run and hide if you like.
JT Plumber and family former welfare recipients.
does this mean he turns out to be an ex-commie deadbeat or what?   
"Joe the Plumber" legislation introduced...

Ohio has 2 representatives introducing legislation so that the leaks that took place about Joe's child-support, taxes, etc hopefully won't happen again. Although, w/ the rules concerning confidentiality, it shouldn't have happened to begin with. The head of Dept of Family & Human Services is on an unpaid month's suspension for this AND for using State computers to raise money for Obama's campaign.


Two state lawmakers today, Dec. 2, introduced legislation that’s supposed to prevent the kind of government snooping that dogged “Joe the Plumber” - Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher - during the presidential campaign
The legislation, introduced by Rep. Shannon Jones, R-Springboro, and Sen. Mark Wagoner, R-Toledo, would direct state agencies to:


*Fire any unclassified employee who violates privacy rules by improperly accessing confidential personal information.


*Set criteria for determining which employees may access or authorize access to confidential, personal information.


*Allow any citizen to make a written request to an agency or identify all personal, confidential information on that person maintained by the agency.


“The systematic misuse of government databases and the governor’s woeful under reaction to state government workers engaging in this outrageous behavior makes this bill necessary,” Jones said in a press release.


Strickland suspended director Helen Jones-Kelley of the Ohio Job and Family Services Department for a month without pay for her role in the “Joe the Plumber” case. Four other employees also were disciplined.


Ohio Inspector Tom Charles concluded that Jones-Kelley improperly authorized the searches of databases with personal information on Wurzelbacher of suburban Toledo. He became a key figure in the Ohio presidential campaign after questioning Democrat Barack Obama’s tax plans.


 


Joe the Plumber wasn't running for a top government job. nm
*
Obama to Plumber: My Plan Will 'Spread the Wealth Around'....sm
FYI: Last night, couldn't find this story on the Internet, as the "powers that be" in the liberal media, attempted to scrub this story clean off the Internet, much the way they changed that SNL skit that was truthful on the whole liberal democratic responsbility on the FM/FM mess. They took out the facts of the blame to the dems, and reposted it on the Internet. They are trying to rewrite history, and that should make us very, very upset.

Anyway, found this story again this morning on Fox, and very hard to find the "whole story" elsewhere on the web, as some of it has "been scrubbed clean"


Obama to Plumber: My Plan Will 'Spread the Wealth Around'
Barack Obama tells a plumber in Ohio he wants to "spread the wealth around," eliciting criticism that his economic recovery plan is socialist in nature.

FOXNews.com

Monday, October 13, 2008


Barack Obama told a tax-burdened plumber over the weekend that his economic philosophy is to "spread the wealth around" -- a comment that may only draw fire from riled-up John McCain supporters who have taken to calling Obama a "socialist" at the Republican's rallies.

Obama made the remark, caught on camera, after fielding some tough questions from the plumber Sunday in Ohio, where the Democratic candidate canvassed neighborhoods and encouraged residents to vote early.

"Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?" the plumber asked, complaining that he was being taxed "more and more for fulfilling the American dream."

"It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance for success too," Obama responded. "My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody ... I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

Obama's remarks drew fresh criticism on the blogosphere that the Illinois senator favors a breed of wealth redistribution -- as well as a rebuke from the McCain campaign.

"If Barack Obama's goal as President is to 'spread the wealth around,' perhaps his unconditional meetings with Hugo Chavez, Raul Castro, and Kim Jong-Il aren't so crazy -- if nothing else they can advise an Obama administration on economic policy," McCain spokesman Michael Goldfarb said in a written statement to FOXNews.com. "In contrast, John McCain's goal as president will be to let the American people prosper unburdened by government and ever higher taxes."

Obama frequently rails against what he calls a Republican concept that tax breaks for the wealthy will somehow "trickle down" to middle-class Americans.

Obama says he will not raise taxes on anyone making less than $250,000 a year.

However, McCain's aides and supporters argue that Obama wrongly wants to raise taxes on businesses in a time of economic distress.

Both candidates spent Monday discussing how they would resurrect the ailing economy. McCain again pointed to his plan to buy up cumbersome mortgages from homeowners and renegotiate them. Obama unveiled what he called an economic rescue plan for the middle class, which included a 90-day moratorium on foreclosures.



http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/13/obama-plumber-plan-spread-wealth/
What is so interesting that Joe the Plumber has to hire a publicist team? nm
x
Joe the plumber was a plant! Talk radio knew about him BEFORE he asked Obama a question
He is related to Charles Keating of the Keating 5 scandal that McCain was involved in.
get on back, neocon, get on back
Tell ya what, sweetheart, last I checked this is the LIBERAL BOARD and I havent been banned, as I dont break the rules, so I can stay as long as I want..Seems to me, conservative, you are the one who should mosey on by and get back to drink more Kook-Aid. 
Go back then
So, *Really* or whomever you are..I have a thought, why dont you go back to the conservative board and have some fun discussing how you are gonna save America and the world from terrorists or whatever you think we are accomplishing with this war.  Bye..bye..**BIG HUG**
Did think you could come back on that
except to call names. If you can't defend yourself just call names...that's how it works, right?

It's funny and predictable how you all react when you're called on the carpet about your hypocrisy.
*Did think you could come back on that*??

You don't consider *unhinged liberal* calling names?!


All you do is come here and pick, pick, pick, fight, fight, fight.  You're boring, and you're terribly unfriendly and unpleasant to be around.  For that reason, I don't think I'm going to continue to provide an audience for any more of your attention-seeking temper tantrums.


Other than that, I'm having trouble understanding what you mean by *Did think you could come back on that.*  Is English your second language or is your anger and hatred causing you to become a bit *unhinged* yourself? (Was just a rhetorical question. No need to respond. I won't be reading it.)


We should just go back to

ignoring them, Democrat.


Their own board is dead because they can't stand to AGREE with each other and just be NICE people.  They have too much venom that they need to purge or explode, and they've been doing it here.


Not one of them (assuming there is more than one) has posted anything that deserves a response.  Not one.


They're just pitiful, bitter, angry, hateful people, and the more we feed them, the fatter they get.


OMG, they are back
The neocons are back..the administrator tells them not to post here but THEY ARE BACK!!  A fungus is among us!
Welcome back...nm

Welcome back! You are definitely not alone ...sm
I think anyone who is still able to think for themselves can see it, it is almost predictable actually. Because of all that is going on lately, the translation for that propaganda is:

You need to vote for Republicans so you will not get killed by terrorists.
Back at ya....

Not flip-flops by one person...but several:


1. 


WASHINGTON - House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi continues to prove that she is willing to say or do just about anything in attempts to gain traction for Democrats. Now, Pelosi is even warming up her rhetoric for summer using the tried-and-failed, Democrat style of flip-flopping.

According to Roll Call, writing in February to members of the Democrat caucus, Pelosi andthe four elected leaders of theDemocratic Caucus ... urged Members to continue a drumbeat of criticism of theprogram, which went into effect on Jan. 1. 'We ask you to use the upcoming February District Work Period and the following weeks to hold town meetings, visits to senior centers, and other public events to drive this message home,' the leaders wrote. (Roll Call, 2/13/06)

Yesterday in a massive course alteration and in the face of positive polling, Pelosi said that Democrats have been out across the country encouraging seniors to sign up for a prescription drug plan by May 15th. (Pelosi Statement, 5/9/06)

If Nancy Pelosi thinks the Medicare prescription drug program should be criticized in February, why is she saying in May that Democrats are encouraging seniors to sign up for the program, National Republican Congressional Committee Communications Director Carl Forti asked.

Nancy Pelosi is flailing in her attempts to call the prescription drug benefit a program that is 'borne of corruption,' because she knows millions of Americans are in fact saving money, so instead she s taken to her tired routine of playing politics with America s seniors, Forti added, in reference to Pelosi s Sunday appearance on NBC s Meet the Press.

 

2. 
Pelosi and Reid Flip Flop on Implementation of all 9/11 Commission Recommendations


Despite the fact they voted against many of the most important recommendations of the 9/11 Commission over the last few years, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid made the implementation of all their recommendations one of their more prominent campaign promises this year...


Well, now that they've won, promises don't mean a thing, and Speaker-elect Pelosi, in response to a reporter's question, now says you can't do them all.

REPORTER: But your promise though was to enact all of the 9/11 recommendations.


PELOSI: What I am saying to you is that they presented several different options and with the goals they have in mind, we have come up with this proposal which removes the barriers between the house appropriators and authorizers, makes the oversight stronger and makes the American people safer, so if they are giving you different alternatives, implicit in that is that you can't do them all.

They're already breaking promises... Should we have expected anything else from them?

 

3. 
Hillary Flip Flops on Ethanol



Following in the footsteps of Democrat presidential hopefuls, Hillary Clinton has “Flip Flopped” on an issue that will play a significant part in the 2008 elections.  She is now for ethanol fuel, but she voted against it in June of last year. She failed to learn from Senator Kerry that Flip Flops no longer go unnoticed by voters.  

She spoke at the National Press Club and announced her energy plan for the nation. In addition to several user tips like checking tire pressure etc., she espoused the development of ethanol for motor fuel.  She suggested that we put a billion dollars from the strategic energy fund into research aimed at unlocking the full potential of ethanol. She also wants to expand loan guarantees to help the first one billion gallons of ethanol capacity come online. She proposes that we have ethanol pumps at 50% of gas stations nationwide by 2015 and a hundred percent by 2025. 

This is all well and good, but how could she make 180 degree turn from last June when she voted against ensuring that ethanol is treated like all other motor vehicle fuels and that taxpayers and local governments do not have to pay for environmental damage caused by ethanol? The answer is simple, she has flip flopped in order to better her position in Iowa , whose caucus is a crucial start in the primary process in Presidential elections.  In the age of instant information, candidates who change their position with the political winds should take note that their voting record is available to anyone with internet access.  Read the how the votes fell at U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 109th Congress - 1st Session.


4. 


Hillary Flip-Flops on Immigration



Democrats flip-flop on a regular basis, and in the age of instant information it is becoming increasingly difficult to pull it off.  Kerry tripped over his own statements on his way to defeat in 2004, and Hillary Clinton is well on her way to following in his footsteps. 

In an attempt to appear hawkish on immigration in 2003 she said that she was adamantly against illegal immigration:

I am, you know, adamantly against illegal immigrants, Clinton said in a Feb. 2003 radio interview.

Clinton said the U.S. might have to move towards an ID system even for citizens in order to combat illegal border crossings, or implement at least a visa ID, some kind of an entry and exit ID. Story 

She has now come out is in favor of citizenship for illegal aliens and claimed that Republicans want to impose a “police state”.  In typical Democrat fashion, she is adjusting her position according to the direction in which she believes the winds of politics are blowing:


Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, a potential White House candidate in 2008, said Wednesday some Republicans are trying to create a police state to round up illegal immigrants. Newsmax
 

This is similar to the strong position she has taken on the Dubai ports deal.  She is adamantly against and Arab company running a handful of terminals at our ports, but is also adamantly against racial profiling.  Playing both sides of the fence is classic Clintonian politics and a tactic she probably learned from her charismatic husband. 


 


5.  Reid Ticket Flip-Flop


The Associated Press reports that Senator Harry Reid has reversed course, and his office acknowledged Wednesday night he misstated the ethics rules governing his acceptance of free boxing tickets and has decided to avoid taking such gifts in the future.

The Nevada senator still believes it was entirely permissible for him to accept ringside seats for three professional boxing matches in 2004 and 2005 from the Nevada Athletic Commission but has nonetheless decided to avoid doing so in the future, his office said.


In light of questions that have been raised about the practice, Senator Reid will not accept these kinds of credentials in the future in order to avoid even the faintest appearance of impropriety, spokesman Jim Manley said.


The announcement came after The Associated Press confronted Reid's office early Wednesday with conclusions from several ethics experts that the Senate leader misstated congressional ethics rules in trying to defend his actions.


According to Reid, it was perfectly okay for him to accept the free gifts because they were from his home state.


 


6.  Pelosi - Murtha


Pelosi, in a letter distributed Sunday to newly elected House Democrats, wrote that Murtha's outspoken opposition to the war in Iraq helped change the electoral campaign for the House this fall. Murtha began calling for a U.S. pullout from Iraq a year ago, and his open opposition to the war made him a focus of intense criticism from Republicans and the White House.


(SNIP)


Pelosi added: Your strong voice for national security, the war on terror and Iraq provides genuine leadership for our party, and I count on you to continue to lead on these vital issues. For this and for all you have done for Democrats in the past and especially this last year, I am pleased to support your candidacy for Majority Leader for the 110th Congress.


Here is a few interesting points about Murtha on National Security.

Murtha on Homeland Security:

Voted NO on federalizing rules for driver licenses to hinder terrorists. (Feb 2005)
Voted NO on continuing intelligence gathering without civil oversight. (Apr 2006)
Voted NO on adopting the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission. (Oct 2004)
Voted NO on military border patrols to battle drugs & terrorism. (Sep 2001)
Voted NO on making the PATRIOT Act permanent. (Dec 2005)
Voted NO on protecting the Pledge of Allegiance. (Sep 2004)
Supports anti-flag desecration amendment. (Mar 2001)
Rated 44% by SANE, indicating a mixed record on military issues. (Dec 2003)

So far, doesn't seem Murtha has shown a strong voice on Security for America. Then again, Pelosi doesn't have to tell the truth, does she? After all, she doesn't even think Iraq is a war... she thinks it is a situation!!!!!

Since it has been reported that al-Qaeda has been trying to enter our country via the Mexican border, lets also take a look at Murtha's record on immigration, shall we?

Voted NO on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment. (May 2004)
Voted YES on extending Immigrant Residency rules. (May 2001)

To be VERY clear here, al-Qaeda has already informed us that they have smuggled materials across the Mexican border, this was reported on Nov. 2006.


A NEWSCHANNEL 5 investigation reveals what the feds don't want you to know. Suspected terrorists are hiding inside the U.S. and they got here by sneaking across the Mexican border.

What we've been reporting for more than a year has been confirmed by a government report just released. (Click here to download the report.)

And a brand new interview by Pakistani investigative reporter Hamid Mir is bringing in more information. Mir has interviewed some of America's most dangerous terrorist enemies.

This time the Al Qaeda commander he talked to gave a grim warning that another attack on America is coming very soon.

We can attack America anytime, says Abu Dawood during the interview. He also told the reporter that Muslims must leave America.


Murtha also flip flops about as much as John Kerry does.

Murtha voted for the 10 October 2002 resolution that as a last resort authorized the use of force against Iraq. However, he later began expressing doubts about the war. On 17 March 2004, when Republicans offered a “War in Iraq Anniversary Resolution” that “affirms that the United States and the world have been made safer with the removal of Saddam Hussein and his regime from power in Iraq, when JD Hayworth called for a recorded vote, Murtha then voted against it.

Still, in early 2005 Murtha argued against the withdrawal of American troops from Iraq. “A premature withdrawal of our troops based on a political timetable could rapidly devolve into a civil war which would leave America’s foreign policy in disarray as countries question not only America’s judgment but also its perseverance”, he stated

On 17 November 2005, he touched off a firestorm when he called for the redeployment of U.S. troops in Iraq, saying, The U.S. cannot accomplish anything further in Iraq militarily.

I guess liberal political opinion flip flops according to what political season it is.

During debate on adopting the rule for the resolution, Congresswoman Jean Schmidt, a Republican from Ohio, made a statement attributed to Danny Bubp, an Ohio state Representative and Marine Corps reservist, “He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message: that cowards cut and run, Marines never do.


 


7. 







Pelosi Flip-Flops on Porter Goss
Nancy

( 8/10/2004 ) CNN quoted the San Francisco Democrat today in saying she didn't support the nomination: But I will say what I said before is that there shouldn't - a person should not be the director of central intelligence who's acted in a very political way when we're dealing with the safety of the American people. Intelligence has to be the gathering and analysis and dissemination of information, of intelligence, without any political, any politics involved at all. Sorry, Nancy. The Republican National Committee has unearthed this from June 5, in the Chattanooga Times Free Press: If Goss is nominated for the post, House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi of California said that she would support him. Pelosi worked closely with Goss during the congressional investigation into the Sept. 11 attacks. Whoever replaces Tenet needs to be independent of political pressure, Pelosi said. Goss, who worked for the CIA before becoming a congressman in 1988, has shown that ability as chairman of the House Intelligence panel, she added.


8.


Kennedy Flip-Flops on Quizzing High Court Nominees
By Jeff Johnson
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
July 28, 2005

(CNSNews.com) - Supreme Court nominee John G. Roberts will be expected to answer fully any questions about his views on controversial issues that could come before the court in the future, according to Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.). But, during the 1967 confirmation debate over future Justice Thurgood Marshall, Kennedy argued that Supreme Court nominees should defer any comments on such matters.

In his June 20, floor speech responding to President Bush's nomination of Roberts to the Supreme Court, Kennedy argued that senators must not fail in our duty to the American people to responsibly examine Judge Roberts' legal views.

Kennedy listed a number of issues, including workers' rights, health care and environmental regulations, that he considers important.

Each of these issues, and many others, [have] been addressed by the Supreme Court in recent years, Kennedy said. In many of these cases, the Court was narrowly divided, and these issues are likely to be the subject of future Court decisions in the years to come.

The Massachusetts Democrat said he is troubled by Roberts' strict interpretation of the Constitution's commerce clause and added that other aspects of Judge Roberts' record also raise important questions about his commitment to individual rights.

Because Judge Roberts has written relatively few opinions in his brief tenure as a judge, his views on a wide variety of vital issues are still unknown, Kennedy charged. What little we know about his views and values lends even greater importance and urgency to his responsibility to provide the Senate and the American people with clear answers.

Kennedy listed examples of conservative positions Roberts had argued on behalf of both private clients and as the principle deputy solicitor general for the administration of President George H. W. Bush.

Judge Roberts represented clients in each of these cases, but we have a duty to ask where he stands on these issues, Kennedy continued. I join my colleagues in the hope that the process will proceed with dignity. But the nominee will be expected to answer fully, so that the American people will know whether Judge Roberts will uphold their rights. See Video

During the 1967 confirmation debate over the nomination of then-Solicitor General Thurgood Marshall to the Supreme Court, however, Kennedy held a different view about the types of questions the nominee should be required to answer. Film footage obtained by Cybercast News Service shows Kennedy's response to the prospect of senators asking Marshall questions about how he might rule in future cases.

We have to respect that any nominee to the Supreme Court would have to defer any comments on any matters, which are either before the court or very likely to be before the court, Kennedy said during a 1967 press conference. This has been a procedure which has been followed in the past and is one which I think is based upon sound legal precedent. See Video

Marshall was serving President Lyndon Johnson as solicitor general when he was nominated in the summer of 1967. Prior to that, he had been an attorney for the NAACP, and had successfully argued the Brown v. Board of Education Supreme Court case that racially integrated the nation's public schools. Marshall's nomination was opposed by Southern Democrats who feared his confirmation would further the cause of racial equality in the United States, but he was confirmed by a vote of 69 to 11 on Aug. 30, 1967.

Multiple calls to Sen. Kennedy's office seeking comment for this report were not returned.


9.   noted back on the 10th about how Democrats were playing political games with the Iraq war by being before the suggested ’surge’ in troops in Iraq before they were against it. Well guess what? Add another Democrat to the game players: House Intelligence Committee Chairman Silvestre Reyes. Via the Washington Times:



On Dec. 5, Newsweek magazine touted an interview with then-incoming House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Chairman Rep. Silvestre Reyes as an “exclusive.” And for good reason.


“In a surprise twist in the debate over Iraq,” the story began, Mr. Reyes “said he wants to see an increase of 20,000 to 30,000 U.S. troops as part of a ’stepped up effort to dismantle the militias.’ ”


“We have to consider the need for additional troops to be in Iraq, to take out the militias and stabilize Iraq,” the Texas Democrat said to the surprise of many, “I would say 20,000 to 30,000.”


Then came President Bush’s expected announcement last week, virtually matching Mr. Reyes’ recommendation and argument word-for-word — albeit the president proposed only 21,500 troops.


Wouldn’t you know, hours after Mr. Bush announced his proposal, Mr. Reyes told the El Paso Times that such a troop buildup was unthinkable.


“We don’t have the capability to escalate even to this minimum level,” he said.


The chairman’s “double-talk” did not go unnoticed. Among others, Rep. Joe Wilson, South Carolina Republican and a member of the House Armed Services Committee, says such blatant “hypocrisy” undermines both national security and the war on terrorism.


Indeed.


And just in case anyone doubts the validity of the WashTimes story about this, here’s that Dec. 5 Newsweek story on Reyes:



Dec. 5. 2006 - In a surprise twist in the debate over Iraq, Rep. Silvestre Reyes, the soon-to-be chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said he wants to see an increase of 20,000 to 30,000 U.S. troops as part of a stepped up effort to “dismantle the militias.”


The soft-spoken Texas Democrat was an early opponent of the Iraq war and voted against the October 2002 resolution authorizing President Bush to invade that country. That dovish record got prominently cited last week when Speaker-designate Nancy Pelosi chose Reyes as the new head of the intelligence panel.


But in an interview with NEWSWEEK on Tuesday, Reyes pointedly distanced himself from many of his Democratic colleagues who have called for fixed timetables for the withdrawal of U.S. troops. Coming on the eve of tomorrow’s recommendations from the bipartisan Baker-Hamilton commission, Reyes’s comments were immediately cited by some Iraq war analysts as fresh evidence that the intense debate over U.S. policy may be more fluid than many have expected.


“We’re not going to have stability in Iraq until we eliminate those militias, those private armies,” Reyes said. “We have to consider the need for additional troops to be in Iraq, to take out the militias and stabilize Iraq … We certainly can’t leave Iraq and run the risk that it becomes [like] Afghanistan” was before the 2001 invasion by the United States.


[…]


When asked how many additional troops he envisioned sending to Iraq, Reyes replied: “I would say 20,000 to 30,000—for the specific purpose of making sure those militias are dismantled, working in concert with the Iraqi military.”


[…]


Reyes added that he was “very clear” about his position to Pelosi when she chose him over two rivals—Rep. Jane Harman of California and Rep. Alcee Hastings—to head the critical intelligence post. One widely cited reason that Harman, a moderate Democrat who supported the war, didn’t get the nod from Pelosi is that the Speaker-designate wanted somebody who would be more aggressive in standing up to the Bush White House—which Reyes promises to be on other issues like domestic wiretapping and CIA secret prisons.


But when asked what he told Pelosi about his thinking on Iraq, Reyes replied: “What I said was, we can’t afford to leave there. And anybody who says, we are going pull out our troops immediately, is being dishonest … We’re all interested in getting out of Iraq. That’s a common goal. How we do it, I think, is the tough part. There are those that say, they don’t care what Iraq looks like once we leave there. Let’s just leave there. And I argue against that. I don’t think that’s responsible. And I think it plays right into the hands of Syria and Iran.”


Here’s Reyes’ flip flop, as reported in the El Paso Times on 1/11/07:



President Bush’s announcement Wednesday evening that he would send about 21,500 more soldiers and Marines to Iraq drew a mixed reaction from El Paso residents, and local officials said they weren’t aware he planned to use Fort Bliss Patriot missile units to defend U.S. allies in the region.


Bush had been expected to announce that he would send a “surge” of troops to Baghdad and to Al Anbar Province in an effort to stop sectarian violence and control the al-Quaida insurgency so the country’s fledgling government can establish itself.


“We don’t have the capability to escalate even to this minimal level,” said U.S. Rep. Silvestre Reyes, D-Texas, referring to the availability of troops. “The president has not changed direction, but is simply changing tactics.”


Reyes, who met with Bush on Tuesday to review the plan, said sending more troops removes any incentive the Iraqi government had to take responsibility for the safety of its own citizens. He added that Bush was continuing his “go-it-alone” approach, rather than trying to find diplomatic solutions.


I wrote this in my intial post on Dem flip flops on the surge, and I believe it’s worth repeating today:



They simply cannot be trusted to tell the truth, nor can they be trusted to be in the driver’s seat in a time of war. That these shameless, dishonest, disingenuous, anti-war, cut and run, stuck-in-Vietnam clowns are going to be micromanaging the President’s every move over the next two years on the war on terror is a travesty of epic proportions, and is already proving to be disastrous.


10.  Dems Flip Flop on Iraq War


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_CepS8u9wQ


A little light listening and watching.



11. 






Democratic hopefuls for 2008 are sensing how vulnerable President Bush is on border control. The latest sign: New Mexico's politically shrewd governor, Bill Richardson, has made a partial about-face on the issue — at least in words — and is throwing money and attention at his state's southern border. If he makes a national comeback from the Energy Department security scandals that all but ruined his reputation in the final years of the Clinton administration, it will owe in part to a seeming shift on border control that mirrors the one that Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton made in December and then reneged upon.


The editors then go on to dispel any doubts of the disingenuousness of their rightward tack on immigration and border control by chronicling their flip-flops. Granted: President Bush has been impotent on border security and weak on immigration — one can only assume because he is playing to his Hispanic voter base. So, I grant Bush no amnesty there. But at least he's consistently frustrating on the issue. Richardson and Clinton, however, have been all over the place, but of course pretend that they haven't. (I guess they just assume the American electorate are too stupid to follow their shenanigans… after all, they have election 2004 as precident that at least 48% of the nation could believe anyone, even an alleged war hero.)


Here are some examples of duplicity from The Washington Times regarding Richardson:



In 1996, as a New Mexico congressman, he voted against increases in border-control expenditures and against a work-verification program to discourage the hiring of illegals. His last few years as New Mexico governor have been more of the same. …As the state Minuteman leader, Clifford Alford, put it to local reporters last week, Mr. Richardson has never done anything to secure the border and he's not doing anything now.


This year Mr. Richardson began changing his tune. In March, he appeared on Fox News Sunday with former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and called for tough law enforcement, more border guards, a crackdown on illegal smuggling, better detection of those that overstay their visas, stolen/lost passports.


Last week, after a tour of border areas, Mr. Richardson declared a state of emergency in four counties abutting Mexico, citing growing border-area violence, property damage, drug smuggling and problems with illegals crossing the border. He then invited Chris Simcox, a Minuteman leader, to discuss border control — something Mr. Bush has not done and probably cannot do, having labeled them vigilantes in March — and called on Mexico to bulldoze Las Chepas, a staging ground for illegals and smugglers.


As regards Hillary, the editors refer to her comment last December that [I do] not think that we have protected our borders or our ports… we can do more and we can do better — I am, you know, adamantly against illegal immigrants… People have to stop employing illegal immigrants, and then observe:



Since then, Mrs. Clinton has turned back toward left-liberal orthodoxy. Last month, she gave a fawning speech to the National Council of La Raza in which she endorsed the Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minorities (DREAM) Act, which would guarantee illegals in-state college-tuition rates and also grant amnesty to tens of thousands of illegals who graduate from U.S. high schools. The border-control hawkishness had vanished.


12.  Massive Al-Qaeda Iraq flip flop


Thursday, June 15, 2006



Democratic Flip Flops on Iraq & Al Qaeda Connection




Today's lesson on How to Beat the Liberals with Facts about Iraq and Al Qaeda focuses on the hypocrisy of the Democrats. The Bush Administration was not the only politicos to link Al Qaeda and Iraq. But to listen to these very same Dems today, you would think otherwise. **Keep in mind that there is quite a difference in claiming ties between Iraq and Al Qaeda versus Iraq in cahoots with Al Qaeda in the 9/11 attacks. The ties between the two terrorist organizations is the issue in question.**

How many times have we heard the KOS kissing former presidential candidate, Gen. Wesley Clark, claim no connection to Iraq and Al Qaeda? But what did Wesley say in 2002???

Tape Shows General Clark Linking Iraq and Al Qaeda
NY Times ^ Jan. 12, 2004 EDWARD WYATT

MANCHESTER, N.H., Jan. 11 — Less than a year before he entered the race for the Democratic nomination for president, Gen. Wesley K. Clark said that he believed there was a connection between the Iraqi government and Al Qaeda.
The statement by General Clark in October 2002 as he endorsed a New Hampshire candidate for Congress is a sign of how the general's position on Iraq seems to have changed over time, though he insists his position has been consistent.
Certainly there's a connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda, he said in 2002. It doesn't surprise me at all that they would be talking to Al Qaeda, that there would be some Al Qaeda there or that Saddam Hussein might even be, you know, discussing gee, I wonder since I don't have any scuds and since the Americans are coming at me, I wonder if I could take advantage of Al Qaeda? How would I do it? Is it worth the risk? What could they do for me?


SNIP
In an interview, General Clark said his more recent remarks were not inconsistent with what he said in 2002. In those remarks, he said, he was trying to explain that based on his knowledge of how the intelligence community works, low-level contacts almost certainly existed between Iraq and Al Qaeda, But, he said, that does not mean that Iraq had anything to do with the Sept. 11 attacks.

********************
President Bush was not the first President to claim ties between Iraq and Al Qaeda. The slick one from Arkansas was numero uno...

Clinton first linked al Qaeda to Saddam
By Rowan Scarborough THE WASHINGTON TIMES

The Clinton administration talked about firm evidence linking Saddam Hussein's regime to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network years before President Bush made the same statements...

In fact, during President Clinton's eight years in office, there were at least two official pronouncements of an alarming alliance between Baghdad and al Qaeda. One came from William S. Cohen, Mr. Clinton's defense secretary. He cited an al Qaeda-Baghdad link to justify the bombing of a pharmaceutical plant in Sudan...

The other pronouncement is contained in a Justice Department indictment on Nov. 4, 1998, charging bin Laden with murder in the bombings of two U.S. embassies in Africa. The indictment disclosed a close relationship between al Qaeda and Saddam's regime, which included specialists on chemical weapons and all types of bombs, including truck bombs, a favorite weapon of terrorists...

To justify the Sudanese plant as a target, Clinton aides said it was involved in the production of deadly VX nerve gas. Officials further determined that bin Laden owned a stake in the operation and that its manager had traveled to Baghdad to learn bomb-making techniques from Saddam's weapons scientists.

*************************
Clinton White House Saw Saddam-Osama Connection
NewsMax ^ 7/12/04 Jon E. Dougherty

...The U.S. attorney involved in preparing that indictment, Patrick Fitzgerald, told the federal 9/11 commission the intelligence surrounding the indictment came from one Jamal al Fadl, a former high-ranking al-Qaeda leader who, before the Sept. 11 attacks, gave the U.S. its first real look at the terrorist organization.

Fadl said an associate of bin Laden's, Mamdouh Mahmud Salim (Abu Hajer al Iraqi) tried to reach a sort of agreement where they wouldn't work against each other -- sort of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' -- and that there were indications that within Sudan when al Qaeda was there, which al-Qaeda left in the summer of '96, or the spring of '96, there were efforts to work on jointly acquiring weapons.
Within several months, al-Qaeda bombed a pair of U.S. embassies in East Africa. In retaliation, Bill Clinton used an Iraq-al-Qaeda connection, Hayes said, when he ordered the cruise missile attack on the al Shifa pharmaceutical plant in Sudan.


On Aug. 24, 1998, a senior intelligence official was made available by the administration and cited strong ties between the plant and Iraq as the basis for the attack.

SNIP

A day later Thomas Pickering, undersecretary of state for political affairs and one of only a few officials involved in planning the al Shifa strike, confirmed an Iraq-Sudan (and, by proxy, al-Qaeda) connection: We see evidence that we think is quite clear on contacts between Sudan and Iraq. In fact, al Shifa officials, early in the company's history, we believe were in with Iraqi individuals associated with Iraq's VX program.

U.N. Ambassador Bill Richardson (now the governor of New Mexico) made an appearance on CNN, where he talked of direct evidence of ties between Osama bin Laden and Sudan's Military Industrial Corporation.
You combine that with Sudan support for terrorism, their connections with Iraq on VX, and you combine that, also, with the chemical precursor issue, and Sudan's leadership support for Osama bin Laden, and you've got a pretty clear-cut case.


Sandy Berger, Clinton's national security advisor, penned an op-ed for the Washington Times on Oct. 16, 1998. In it he asserted the administration had physical evidence indicating that al Shifa was the site of chemical weapons activity.
Other products were made at al Shifa, he continued. But we have seen such dual-use plants before -- in Iraq. And, indeed, we have information that Iraq has assisted chemical weapons activity in Sudan.


Richard Clarke, the counterterrorism czar for both Clinton and Bush who, in a recent book, laid most of the blame for 9/11 at the feet of the current administration, told the Washington Post in a Jan. 23, 1999 interview the U.S. was sure Iraq was behind the VX precursor being manufactured at the al Shifa plant.
The Post reported: Clarke said U.S. intelligence does not know how much of the substance was produced at al Shifa or what happened to it. But he said that intelligence exists linking bin Laden to al Shifa's current and past operators, the Iraqi nerve gas experts, and the National Islamic Front in Sudan.


*****************************
Dems connected Iraq, al-Qaida
By Charles D. Ganske 7/5/04

Yet, Clinton's Secretary of Defense, William Cohen, in his recent testimony before the 9/11 Commission, insisted that the owner of the plant had traveled to Baghdad to meet with the father of the VX program. For the Iraqis not to have known bin Laden was a major investor in the El Shifa plant seems to be quite a stretch.

*******************************
The final nail in the coffin was signed by many of the Lefties that now claim voting for the war in Iraq was a mistake... You know, people like John Kerry, John Murtha...

AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE AGAINST IRAQ RESOLUTION OF 2002
[[Page 116 STAT. 1498]] Public Law 107-243107th Congress
Joint Resolution To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.
<>

...Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq;
Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of United States citizens;...

My my my... how things change when a Republican is President. It was completely believable and promoted by Democrats when Clinton was in office. Yet the only action Clinton took was bombing the pharmaceutical factory at Al Shifa. President Bush's actions have deposed the Taliban and Saddam Hussein. His only mistake - he is a Republican.


13.


BEN NELSON:
Immigration Hardliner? Or Lobbyist for Meatpackers?

NEGOP Questions Democrat Ben Nelson’s Immigration Flip-Flop
***


Lincoln, Neb. – The Nebraska GOP called on Democrat Senator Ben Nelson today to come clean on his apparent flip-flop on federal immigration policy. Nelson announced plans to introduce legislation addressing illegal immigration.

In 1999, former Governor and soon to be candidate for United States Senate Ben Nelson acted as a lobbyist for the meatpacking industry in a dispute with the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS). INS was subpoenaing employee records at meatpacking plants across the state, investigating document discrepancies.



  • “Former Gov. Ben Nelson says the crackdown on undocumented workers in Nebraska meatpacking plants is detrimental to Nebraska.” (Nelson critical of Operation Vanguard, Calls it Detrimental; Grand Island Independent; Thursday, June 3, 1999)

  • Nelson said he thinks the INS should start a separate program that would allow temporary visas for undocumented workers. (Associated Press, “Nelson says INS operation draining state’s labor pool”; 6/4/99)

  • [Nelson] said he has been approached by several meatpacking companies, asking for his help in developing a pilot program that would make temporary visas available to undocumented employees. “We need to find more ways to employ people rather than limit them,” Nelson said. (The Grand Island Independent, 6/3/99).

“The issue in this instance is consistency and leadership. In 1999, the year before his Senate race, Ben Nelson lobbied for meatpackers – advocating for programs to permit the importation of foreign workers into permanent US jobs. In 2005, the year before his Senate race, Ben Nelson feigns concern about border security,” said Executive Director Jessica Moenning. “Ben Nelson changes what he thinks from one term to the next based on who he’s lobbying for or what a poll says - that is NOT leadership.”

“Nebraska needs a leader who will say what he means and mean what he says, not someone who changes his position if a focus group says so. Ben Nelson owes the voters of Nebraska an explanation for his flip-flop.”


 


I don't know. Where were you back then??
I was aware because a friend of mine is from Iraq and his mother was a Kurd and was killed. He and his brother had been schooled here and they were working here. His father is still there. I have lost contact with him, the friend. He moved to CA and we just lost touch. I would imagine that his father is probably dead. We worked together in the 80s. I know Mavis Leno (Jay's wife) has been working for Afghanistan women for years. She probably knew and cared a lot and I am sure that the people who did know cared quite a lot a well. I really can't tell you where everyone else was. I would guess most Americans were in the same state of mind about Iraq that they are today in respect to every other poverty-ridden, despot-ravaging, corrupt country, state or region, Asia, Africa, South America...We(some of us) care about Iraq because it has been brought to our attention for the first time, Iraq that is. You will find no dearth of man's inhumanity to man in any corner of this planet you look. Whoever you are, you may or may not know that I am a complete and total pacifist. I can think of no good reason for war...really...but since we've got it, my priority is to end the carnage for both sides ASAP.
Right back at ya..lol nm
nm
your back

I agree.  It would be very traumatizing to the child to be hauled around and raised by a succession of nannies.  The child's needs come before her political ambition.


 


right back at ya...
DIdn't see anything there about God Dam* America for starters. More to follow.
No, sam's right. I can't back it up but I
remember that being on the news almost every night for weeks when Clinton revealed his budget.