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Politics is all smoke and mirrors.

Posted By: Zville MT on 2009-04-15
In Reply to: So true!!!! He gets it! - MsMT

It's all about what you can make people think they can see, not what's really there.


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SMOKE-&-MIRRORS.
.
Smoke and mirrors. Thanks but no thanks on that
nm
More smoke and mirrors and much ado about nothing
My first clue that this may be a red herring that merits further investigation was that I could not find information on this piece anywhere except conservative websites and blogs. I also had difficulty locating the text of Newt's so-called "Fairness Rules", which my gut told me was an oxymoron, the mention of Newt and fairness in the same breath.

The key phrase in this piece is found in paragraph 3, lines 4 and 5:

"...bar Republicans from offering alternative bills, amendments to Democrat bills or even the guarantee of open debate ACCESSIBLE BY MOTIONS TO RECOMMIT for any piece of legislation."

It is worthwhile to note that this phrase only appears once, embedded in a storm cloud of protest, fore and aft, and for good reason. There is method to this madness.

Motions to recommit occur at the final stage of bill passage. I have reviewed the text of the Contract On America, err, I mean Contract With America and the scope of its measures did not address the ENTIRE legislative process, as they are trying to suggest here.

I'm not that good at nutshell summaries. Instead, I have tried to present the ENTIRE picture below to clarify exactly what part of the process Pelosi's so-called "erasure" would affect. So much for the assertion that Pelosi is propsing to do away with the democratic process as we know it.

http://www.house.gov/house/Tying_it_all.shtml
Legislative Prcess

A bill is introduced and referred to committee. Any member of the House can introduce a bill at any time, meaning if the pubs don't like what they get out of one bill, they can pen their own as a counter-measure. The bill is then assigned a number, printed in its introduced form and a bill summary appears on the Bill Status Today schedule.

It is then referred to all appropriate committees where it is scheduled for public debate and markup. Notices as such are posted. Transcript of the testimony taken in the hearings is made available in the committee offices as well as printed and distributed by the committee.

Markup occurs after the hearings where amendments are proposed, considered and voted on. This can happen either at subcommittee or committee levels, all of which are subject to due process of notice, available to ALL interested parties.

The committee then votes on the action to be taken. It can be "reported" either with or without amendment or tabled. Sometimes new bills are written if extensive amendments have to be added, resulting in a "clean bill" which is assigned a new number. A committee report is issued summarizing the purpose and scope of the bill and the reasons it is being recommended for approval.

It then goes to the House floor for FULL CONSIDERATION. This process is governed by a "rule," a simple resolution that MUST BE PASSED by the house that sets out the particulars of how much time will allowed for debate, whether amendments can be offered, and other matters. Debate is divided between proponents and opponents. Amendments are offered, debated and voted upon, summarized on a daily basis and posted.

http://www.rules.house.gov/archives/recommit_mot.htm
Motion to recommit

Following this, the bill is ready for a vote on final passage. IT IS AT THE POINT IN TIME WHERE, in some cases, A VOTE TO "RECOMMIT" the bill to committee is requested, also known as a THIRD read. This is usually an effort by opponents to change some portion or table the measure. If the attempt to recommit fails, a vote on final passage is ordered.

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/lawsmade.toc.html
How Our Bills Are Made...for further details on this process.

No smoke, no fire, only mirrors. LOL!
.
Smoke and mirrors? It's math. Like, second grade math.
I don't understand your attack.

A little addition, a little subtraction, a tiny bit of multiplication. It's not all that hard to understand.

If you have questions, ask them. Unless you just don't want to hear the answer. In that case, I can't help you.
I suppose they should cover the mirrors
and rend their clothes in grief instead? They are busting their butts to get things done. I think a little laughter, joy and goodwill is necessary as well as healthy. But, I suspect you would neither understand nor APPROVE of anything you deem "frivolous." The Dow has been up for 4 days running, at least 3 major banks are seeing profits and are stating they no longer require any bailout money.........Bringing in Congress and various insiders for a weekly get-together is a good way to inspire and promote goodwill.....but I guess the WH is something to look at - not live in.
Brown's Economic Plan in England Mirrors Obama's

As you read the piece (see link below) in the London Times, substitute "Obama" for Brown, and "Geithner" for "Darling".  Then multiply the billions in pounds by 1.5 to change them to US dollars.  You'll think you're reading about the US plan - and the same catastrophic results, among which the worst are:


1.  A burden on future generations of unparalleled and unprincipled proportions.


2.  An outflow of investment capital to other countries that do not penalize the engines of the economy.


What struck me about Brown's plan was his "soak the rich" approach, which exactly mirrors Obama's - i.e., hitting the "upper 2%" of the "wealthy".  It is more than passing strange to me that this is the precise percentage that Obama proposes - and is equally doubtful.  Given Brown's recent meetings with Obama, no one will ever convince me that he didn't get some tutoring from our superclown...er, I mean, superpresident.


Another thing that's striking is how Brown's proposals are structured so that the real pain will be imposed after the elections in GB next year.  In Obama's case, most of the real pain has also been scheduled for the "out years" - meaning that the public won't begin to feel them until beyond 2011. 


And finally, there is the criticism that Brown's program is based on a lot of rosy "recovery" predictions which are very doubtful.  Exactly the same criticism has been leveled at Obama's program, and in our case the criticism has come not from the opposition party but from within the government itself, i.e. the Office of Management and Budget - which is considered to be a very credible source of information on this sort of thing


Cut and paste, or follow the link at the bottom: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article6168950.ece?Submitted=true


.


She was in state politics at the time, not national politics......
how much foreign policy experience did Bill have when he went to the presidency having only been a governor? The same as Sarah Palin. Because he was concentrating on his job...the state of Arkansas (and Paula Jones and what was that stripper's name?). Sarah Palin was concentrating on the state of Alaska.

Good grief. lol. Why don't you poll all the governors in all the states in the union and ask them how much they think about foreign policy?
I'm for it. And I don't even smoke it myself.
I'm probably the only person I know in the world who doesn't smoke it sometimes. And if it helps to restore a sick person's appetite, or helps ease another's pain, why not? Legalizing it would take all the profits out of it for those who are growing it illegally.

And no, I don't think people should overdo it (like they do with alcohol, which society seems to condone, no matter how many people it kills on our highways every year.) I once rode with a friend in her car when she was just slightly high, and nope. She shouldn't have been driving. Couldn't keep her car centered in her own lane. (Next time we took MY car, and I drove, instead.)

I also notice that MJ doesn't make people MEAN, the way booze does.

My aging mother says if she has pain in her later years, she wants to smoke marijuana rather than be doped-up on morphine. If she does, then I think she should be able to do that. I actually wish she'd start smoking it now, because she doesn't eat very well anymore.
There is no smoke. There is only hot air...

...and blatant lies.  For anyone who is tempted to believe this garbage, please visit the following site.


http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp


Where there is smoke there is fire!!
xx
and you can smoke your reefer in peace

last I knew there was nothing about the president not being able to smoke...
x
Obama Tax Promises Up In Smoke

Obama plainly, clearly, and unequivocally promised "not one dime" of tax increase on the workers of America. 


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D979POSG0&show_article=1


...and the point here is NOT whether you smoke or not.  Even if you think that forcing the poor to quit smoking is a beneficial thing, the questions are:


1.  Should Obama be held to his tax promises or not?


2.  If he can raise these taxes, by what stretch of the imagination do you believe other increases will not follow?


3.  Should the government use the power of taxation to enforce policies that it happens to think are beneficial?  If you think so, how about taxing the next package of hamburger you buy a couple of bucks a pound unless it has less than 14% fat?  And your next loaf of bread a buck or two unless it has 0% transfat? Or the next dozen eggs maybe five bucks for the cholesterol?   After all, far more people in this country are obese than smoke.


If I were President, I'd hit every parent with a $10 per day tax if their kids forget to brush their teeth before going to bed (and I'd send jack-booted bed-tooth-inspectors to every house, too!).  Now that would raise some serious coin, and improve the nation's dental health.  Vote for me.


How I wish that sneaking a smoke was all Obama was hiding...lol....sm
...by the way, I did use my name....my initials actually, as I always do. I admit, I think once I got dyslexic and typed "sm" instead of "ms" ....but there you have it....

Ah well....time will show what he's really like. The one extreme case of poor judgment I'm seeing from Obama is his AG pick... I'm really worried about this Eric Holder.....heaven help us if he refuses again to examine someone's laptop, and permits evidence to go by unnoticed and causes another 9/11....that's my greatest fear at the moment....aside from several others, which shall remain nameless. I have better things to do...like sleep....at the moment....night GP
Obama couldn't do that........ he loves to smoke!!!
nm
My dad died of lung ca. from 2nd-hand smoke. I hope
nm
That's right. Unfortunately, that's politics.nm
x
Now, this is politics.....for sure......

 


 


                                             


 


All politics aside...I do want to wish everyone a...
very happy Thanksgiving, and I hope you are all able to enjoy it with family and friends...and if some of us have to work, here's hoping they keep the leftovers warm.  Happy Thanksgiving!
Politics... LOL
I think it just depends on the person.. some people ACTUALLY dont give a crap about them... at all. which to me is totally foreign... that's ALMOST as bad as being the opposing side to me haha. Luckily my family (or at least the ones i actually spend time with, my immediate ones) we all feel exactly the same way, but even we can get loud and annoying while even agreeing with each other! haha. politics is one thing that I get completely heated about... i sometimes wish i didn't care, but i mean, it spreads to all aspects of my life ya know? DISCLAIMER: sorry about the punctuation, i NEVER use it when i am just relaxing. it does not reflec the kind of MT i am. haha
Politics
Not enough crackerjack on the shelf for this election. At least you get a prize.
Fun with Politics

theonion.com


Today Now!: How To Pretend You Give A S**t About The Election


There are so many funny ones at this site it was hard to decide on one!  You'll have to supply the 2 letters above which were refused.  What could they be?!


See what I mean? You can't keep it about politics..
you have to stay in your close-minded, one-sided arguements becasue you don't like to hear the truth. That's okay - you stay on your side and I'll stay on mine and we'll just agree to disagree. And about the bridge, I'll take it - I can donate the profit to the Cancer Society. Thanks so much!!!
MTs and Politics
I never realized how many MTs were *********************** conservative ********until I came to this political board.  When you advertise that you are voting for the McCain/Palin ticket, you might as well as raise your hand and say "I am *************
say anything politics...

People who think Governor Sarah Palin didn't handle some "gotcha" questions well in a couple of interviews show no interest in how she compares to the Democrats' Vice Presidential candidate, Senator Biden.


Joe Biden is much more of the kind of politician the mainstream media like. Not only is he a liberal's liberal, he answers questions far more glibly than Governor Palin— grossly inaccurately in many cases, but glibly.


Moreover, this is a long-standing pattern with Biden. When he was running for the Democratic Party's presidential nomination back in 1987, someone in the audience asked him what law school he attended and how well he did.


Flashing his special phony smile, Biden said, "I think I have a much higher IQ than you do." He added, "I went to law school on a full academic scholarship" and "ended up in the top half" of the class.


But Biden did not have a full academic scholarship. Newsweek reported: "He went on a half scholarship based on need. He didn't finish in the 'top half' of his class. He was 76th out of 85."


Add to Obama and Biden House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, and you have all the ingredients for a historic meltdown. Let us not forget that the Roman Empire did decline and fall, blighting the lives of millions for centuries.


To find out more about Thomas Sowell and read features by other Creators Syndicate columnists and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate web page at www.creators.com. Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305. His Web site is www.tsowell.com.


 


All politics aside....

It is very sad that Obama's grandmother passed.


For what it is worth....I don't criticize him for not stopping his campaigning.  He did stop earlier to go and see her, and I feel like she would want him to continue.


At any rate, my prayers for his family in what has to be a very difficult time.


That's politics...

What does this have to do with politics?
I see absolutely nothing in this news story that has anything to do with politics. The only reason you posted this was to try to incite bigotry and hatred towards Muslims. Fortunately, your little plan didn't work and you didn't get the response you wanted.
What does this have to do with politics?
:(
What does this have to do with politics?
:(
Politics aside, I know exactly where...

...you're coming from, and it brings back a sad but very funny memory.


My mom died in 1982, and after the viewing, my cousin's husband's sister (no relation to me), whom I had never even met previously, came up to the minister, where my father and I were standing, and very seriously and sincerely thanked him for such a beautiful "urology."  My dad kicked my shoe a little bit, and all I could do was just immediately excuse myself because I knew if I looked at him, I wouldn't be able to NOT laugh.


Knowing my mother, she would have done the same thing -- kick my shoe a little bit -- as if to say, "Did you HEAR that?!"


I've always felt that humor truly does provide good medicine, and on what was undoubtedly one of the saddest days of my entire life, it injected itself in a most unlikely source and time in a way I'll never forget.


As far as Norm Crosby, I remember him well and will always relate to and appreciate his humor. 


Politics aside, I know exactly where...

...you're coming from, and it brings back a sad but very funny memory.


My mom died in 1982, and after the viewing, my cousin's husband's sister (no relation to me), whom I had never even met previously, came up to the minister, where my father and I were standing, and very seriously and sincerely thanked him for such a beautiful "urology."  My dad kicked my shoe a little bit, and all I could do was just immediately excuse myself because I knew if I looked at him, I wouldn't be able to NOT laugh.


Knowing my mother, she would have done the same thing -- kick my shoe a little bit -- as if to say, "Did you HEAR that?!" 


I've always felt that humor truly does provide good medicine, and on what was undoubtedly one of the saddest days of my entire life, it injected itself from a most unlikely source at a time and in a way I'll never forget.


As far as Norm Crosby, I remember him well and will always relate to and appreciate his humor. 


Don't know if this is really politics, but -

I am in a position to buy a new car (not going brand new, but 2008) and pay CASH for it.  After doing much research on the internet and deciding on the car I wanted, I then proceeded to find the "best" deals in a 150-mile area from my home.  Well, the 2nd best price actually came from the dealer that is only 20 miles from me, so I went there to talk to them.


Told them I was paying cash and asked if they could do a better deal to match the other dealership price about 50 miles away (mind you, this is a CHRYSLER dealership) if I wrote them a check and left with the car that day.  They said no, that the only way they made any money on cars was through financing and getting kickbacks so that the price they had was what I had to pay.


Now, if cars are not selling and people do not have any money to buy and banks are not financing right now, don't you think the smart thing would have been to match that other price and take my cash instead of letting me walk away?  That seems to me to be just greedy and just about shows you why the country is in the shape it is in. 


It seems as if they are saying if I can't make $100, I ain't gonna take the $90!!!


well, this is politics and it will always be like this!.
Otherwise we would only have 1 party.
I don't think this had anything to do with politics.
But he definitely was in need of some mental help. This was the same man that tried to kidnap members of the Federal Reserve board in 1981.

Sounds to me more like he was a paranoid, anti-semetic, anti-government,racist man who finally reached his breaking point. I think it's unfair to imply that even though he was part of what is classified as a hate group, that that automatically makes him right-wing.
Politics is bad enough with the mud
slinging between the two parties.  They just need to leave the kids out of this.  So Bristol Palin had premarital sex.  So what!  I did too.  Big whoop.  I was just lucky enough not to get pregnant.  We all make mistakes.  It is just cruel and mean to keep bashing the Palin family like this.  I really do feel bad for them.  I'd feel just as bad if this were Chelsea Clinton or one of Obama's two daughters.  It is just wrong.  Letterman was out of line.  Like I said before, there is a difference between poking fun and being downright hateful and mean.  Leave the kids out of this!!!!
posting politics

reality check... I don't usually post here on the political forum, I prefer a bigger board.  You seem to be a big fish in a small pond, whereas, I prefer to be a small fish in a big pond... fresher ideas and less bullying from the likes of big fish like you.


I dont believe in PUSHING my ideas on others.  I dont believe in killing our young people, I do NOT believe in George W. Bush.


Peace.


 


POLITICS NOT PERSONAL
I believe you are mistaken. It is almost impossible to carry on a political discussion without getting personal. Political alignments are based on personal beliefs. And as for you trials and tribulations, she said nothing about what you've gone through in your life with the exception of, you know nothing of persecution.
Business politics

You nailed it when you said business.  However, if a conservative had said the same thing you and Lurker just stated you would have disputed that.  Liberals swear up and down Murdoch is a conservative Republican, but the truth is Murdoch is all about Murdoch and what sells.  His politics is business.


This is bigger than politics....sm
A friend of mines posted this on another site and wants me to share the word. Her husband is on assignment in Iraq now.

As you all probably know I am a very proud wife of a Military Soldier. It is an honor, privelege and the toughest duty anyone woman can have. At times my fears get the best of me. And although I cannot imagine my life without my husband, I am in a marriage where his life is on the line daily and I have to remain strong not only for myself but for our 4 sons. This is going to really hit you emotionally and some of you may not even get through however you will see the purpose at the end. I live each day like its my last and this is the reason why.

Last week, while traveling to Chicago on business, I noticed a Marine sergeant traveling with a folded flag, but did not put two and two together. After we boarded our flight, I turned to the sergeant, who'd been invited to sit in First Class (across from me), and inquired if he was heading home.

No, he responded.


Heading out I asked?


No. I'm escorting a soldier home.


Going to pick him up?


No. He is with me right now. He was killed in Iraq ..

I'm taking him home to his family.



The realization of what he had been asked to do hit me like a punch to the gut. It was an honor for him. He told me that, although he didn't know the soldier, he had delivered the news of his passing to the soldier's family and felt as if he knew them after many co nversations in so few days. I turned back to him, extended my hand, and said, Thank you. Thank you for doing what you do so my family and I can do what we do.




Upon landing in Chicago the pilot stopped short of the gate and made the following announcement over the intercom.



Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to note that we have had the honor of having Sergeant Steeley of the United States Marine Corps join us on this flight. He is escorting a fallen comrade back home to his family. I ask that you please remain in your seats when we open the forward door to allow Sergeant Steeley to deplane and receive his fellow soldier. We will then turn off the seat belt sign.


Without a sound, all went as requested. I noticed the sergeant saluting the casket as it was brought off the plane, and his action made me realize that I am proud to be an American.


So here's a public Thank You to our military Men and
Women for what you do so we can live the way we do .

Red Fridays.

Very soon, you will see a great many people wearing Red every Friday. The reason? Americans who support our troops used to be called the silent majority. We are no longer silent, and are voicing our love for God, country and home in record breaking numbers. We are not organized, boisterous or overbearing.

Many Americans, like you, me and all our friends,
simply want to recognize that the vast majority of
Americasupports our troops. Our idea of showing
solidarity and support for our troops with dignity and respect starts this Friday -- and continues each and every Friday until the troops all come home, sending a deafening message that ... every red-blooded American who supports our men and women afar, will wear something red.

By word of mouth, press, TV -- let's make the United Stateson every Friday a sea of red much like a homecoming football game in the bleachers. If every one of us who loves this country will share this with acquaintances, coworkers, friends, and family, it will not be long before the USA is covered in RED and it will let our troops know the once silent majority is on their side more than ever, certainly more than the media lets on.

The first thing a soldier says when asked What can we do to make things better for you? is ..We need your support and your prayers. Let's get the word out and lead with class and dignity, by example, and wear something red every Friday.


WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE, ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE!!
Politics of fear?
Intrigued by what is scaring you and why. A few questions. Politics of fear. Which party embodies and promotes this concept? Why? Whose agenda does it serve? Who benefits? More importantly, who doesn't? Visions of terrorists licking their chops with itchy trigger fingers? Where is this coming from? Media? Party rhetoric? Bush/Cheney/McCain? If you think they will attack "no matter who the president will be" then the politics of fear and its manipulation is working well on you and we are all doomed to repeat that anguish. So you fight fear with more fear and leave that weapon in the hands of a hot head? Does that scare you more or make you feel more safe? Do you want to base your vote on a surrender to fear?

Now, how about that other conference table vision? You fear the Obama cult? What is it that they are following? Hope? Vision? A different approach? What does the alternative have to offer? An alliance of diplomacy?

While doing your research, it might help you to go to the following link and read it in it's entirety, including all the links embedded under At a Glance. Would be very interested if you are still having those visions and feeling as frightened after your research.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreignpolicy/#diplomacy

Rove in politics
I think above all else Rove is loyal to the Republian party, above any particular candidate. I don't think McCain was his choice, but that won't stop him from trying to get him elected now that he is the nominee.

Now, say what you will about Rove. I personally think he is despicable, but the man knows politics and voting trends. He said McCain needed to pick Romney as VP to win, so it will be interesting to see whether or not that prediction was right (inferring that not picking Romney means not winning).
He is rising above the politics

“This is a time when we have to do away with our party politics and we have to act as Americans,” he said as fellow Republicans converged on their convention city to nominate him for the White House.


Wow, what a concept: Act as Americans. 


I think he's got something there.  I know, I know, your guy didn't think of that one first so it doesn't count.  I thought O was about the change?  Change your bashing into something constructive.  Now that would be refreshing.


 


Demoguttercratic politics...
true disciples of the faith.  Do you guys have a class you attend to learn nasty, or does it come natural?  Just wondering...
Identity Politics

The libs created this and now have no clue how to play the hand they dealt all these years.  All the conservatives were automatically racists because of this, that, or whatever.  I don't need anyone telling me what I have in my heart.  And for the record, I do have more than just white friends.


Frankly, I'm loving them squirm.


Who knows with Chicago politics.........sm
I had heard that the Rev. Jesse Jackson was interested in Obama's seat but I don't know if he was tied up in this particular fiasco or not.

I would imagine Obama might have something else for Ms. Jarr to do in his administration. Time will tell on that.
In is just a cycle in politics.....
before the democratic convention, during it, everyone was blown away by Obama, because he is so charismatic...it really did not matter much what he said. Right now, it is just that Sarah Palin is so different from your average politician. In fact, she is the exception to the rule. That is why people are fascinated with her right now. Conservatives are excited because she is a strong conservative woman who is politically astute, yet has not lost touch with the people she serves. She believes that governors, senators, representatives, Pres and VP all should serve with a servant's heart and remember who put them in office. That is completely different from the politics of Washington. She puts country first, as does her running mate. They both want Washington to be of the people again. Not of the lobbyist and special interests. To do the business of the people, not further political careers. It is supposed to be public service, and that is what they want to bring back. McCain laid it out brilliantly in the latter part of his acceptance speech. That is real change, and it is change I can believe in...

The widespread interest in Sarah Palin will dissipate somewhat when people know more about her. But what won't dissipate is how she has governed and how McCain, with her support, will make the changes in washington that need changing.
Gutter politics. Anything goes. Just when you think...
the bottom of the barrell is reached....they take a shovel and keep on digging.
Where are the politics in this post?
nm
And where are the politics (of truth) in yours?
by a big fat old windbag. Don't you get tired of always professing to know it ALL, all the time? I mean, don't you eventually just bore yourself to tears, like you're doing to everyone else on this board who can't write one sentence without you jumping in and trying to shoot it down? Talk about a case of 'little ___ syndrome'.