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Pre-existing health conditions

Posted By: Old part-timer on 2008-10-13
In Reply to:

The idea that Obama can force insurance companies to cover pre-existing health conditions is ludicrous. My husband and I pay for our own health insurance, keeping it at the bare minimum and basically, it doesn't cover much of anything except the big things. Doctor's office visits, prescriptions, we're on our own. Why do we have it? Because we CAN'T wait until we're diagnosed with cancer or diabetes. If Obama was able to force insurers to cover pre-existing conditions, I'd drop my insurance immediately and wait until I really needed it.

It would be a lot like not having to have car insurance until you have a wreck - then go out and buy a policy the next day.

How stupid does he think the American people are? Is anyone buying this tripe?



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SCHIP and pre-existing conditions....
Found this on the CMS website:

Other rules that affect which services are to be covered under SCHIP:

Abortion services may only be provided to save the life of the mother, or to terminate a pregnancy resulting from an act of rape or incest.
In general, states can not permit the implementation of preexisting condition exclusions.
If SCHIP plans provide coverage through group health plans, preexisting condition exclusions are permitted only in so far as HIPAA rules allow.

This is what I found about HIPAA and preexisting conditions:
The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA), effective July 1, 1997, provides certain protections for people who have preexisting medical conditions. A preexisting condition is any medical condition that a person has before being enrolled in an insurance plan.

This law helps protect your health insurance benefits by:

limiting exclusion periods for preexisting conditions;
lowering your chances of losing your existing coverage or of being discriminated against because of your health;
providing protections for you when you change jobs;
allowing you and your dependents special enrollment rights under your employer's health plan under certain circumstances.

I cannot find anything relating to the cost of covering a child with a pre-existing condition in private insurance.......there are a multitude of sites where you can do the "get a quote" thing...but I don't find anything that gives cost or even estimated cost up front. I will look around some more when I have more time.
Question about SCHIP and children with pre-existing conditions
I don't have children, but do have pre-existing conditions and pay an obscene amount for health insurance coverage. My questions are these: 1. Does SCHIP cover children with pre-existing conditions? 2. Can a person/family secure private sector insurance if their child has pre-existing conditions, and if so the approximate cost of coverage?
what happens to existing student loans?
My daughter, who graduated law school, has over 100K in student loans for her education. She is working hard to pay that back. What happens to those? She is killing herself to pay back while the next guy goes for free? I don't think so. Do we also forgive those loans? If not, I would expect greater default than we now see. And I would certainly expect to see a lot of professionals, the people with those big loans, protesting this deal big time.
Nana, are you aware of the conditions in Iraq? sm
Millions of people have lost their lives, lost their limbs, lost their livelihoods, lost their families, lost their electricity, lost their water, lost their homes, etc,, etc.  In short they were "shocked and awed" a number of years ago for no good reason whatsoever. What kind of people and society allow children to go homeless and hungry????  You tell me.
These same conditions have existed for centuries. Don't blame it on conservatives.
Please.  Let's be realistic.   Through various and sundry administrations the same exact conditions have existed.  Do you think they just cropped up under Bush or that only Bush fails to sanction these countries?  It just isn't so. 
Health Insurance/Health Care sm

I figure either one of two things will happen. Either the US will go to a single payer system, i.e., national health care covering all through federal taxes and cost control by the government, or therre will be an implosion of the private system in x number of years with something different emerging from the ashes.


With the exhorbitant cost of health insurance, mandating coverage is not an answer. Anything can be mandated. The question is how does one pay for it?Massachusetts mandated individual coverage, and already has had to exclude 20% due to the cost of a policy, anywhere from $1,200 to $1,400 a month for family coverage.  Employers cannot afford to cover employees either due to the cost of health insurance.  The current system? Well, insurance companies can charge $3,000 a month for a health insurance policy, health care providers can charge $800,000 for a 3-day hospital stay, etc.  In the end no one, businesses or otherwise, will be able to keep "feeding the beast" and the current system will implode.


I think the proposal of being able to buy into Medicare is a noble one, but president Clinton pushed that years ago, and with much opposition and to no avail at that time.


I don't mean to sound so pessiimistic. Actually I'm not. There are 300 million people in this country, they have the ability to change anything, and hopefully they will take the initial steps to do that in November.


health plan
I have an idea, why doesnt Bush stop waging immoral wars and use our tax dollars for something constructive and life saving, like health coverage for those who die each year without it?  You know why I would love a universal health plan?  Because I care about my brother and sister and I care about making every Americans life better.  Of course, you conservatives care about no one but yourselves.  You make a few bucks, buy a home in a gated community, take the other streets so you dont pass the ghetto..and yet you claim you are christian..that is the most hypocritical statement of all.  Do you not realize if Jesus walked this earth today, he would be a liberal democrat, helping the poor, the starving, the sick, the homeless, accepting all.  Im so glad Im a liberal democrat.  I dont think I could look at myself in the mirror or get a good nights sleep knowing my ideology is actually harming America, not helping it one bit.
Health insurance
I'm not sure about that specific point, but in her plan if you don't purchase medical insurance your wages will be garnished. How's that for communism?
Health care
Nope, he didn't say anything as extreme as HRC about health care, but if he's going to enact any type of government funded health care, how is he going to pay for it? Not to mention all the other changes he has in mind. You think the economy is bad now, you haven't seen anything yet. I believe in helping out when people need the help, but there are already too many entitlement programs that people have been on for generations and now there should be another? So that now I not only have to pay for my own (which I do, by the way) but I have to pay for others as well? Does that really seem fair to you? And no, I don't like the war, but realistically, what else can we do at this point? We can't pull out because then things would be worse than they were. I think too many people forget what happened to our country in 2001 (and the many episodes before that) - you don't hear anyone from WWII forgetting about Pearl Harbor. McCain is going to change a lot - don't be fooled into thinking he's just continuing Bush's presidency - it's not even close. Regardless of who wins, I certainly don't envy them the huge responsibilities they're going to face. I do hope that whoever wins doesn't screw it up! Not sure this country can take much more of that.
Not only that, she is a HEALTH reporter and

you could tell that Joe Biden really did think she was joking because the question was so ridiculous, about Obama being a Marxist.  No wonder these things get so inflated by the right-wing media.  Ridiculous questions don't deserve to be acknowledged.  What a waste of time. Someone needs to ask SP why her own home newspaper in Anchorage is supporting Obama, because she is considered too risky to be in a position a heartbeat away from the Oval Office, and the McCain campaign aides have referred to her a rogue diva.  Ouch, that must have hurt!  Now there are some FACTS for you!!


If they really cared about our health
I agree with most - when all the smokers quit, who's next?  Tax all the bars and strip clubs out of existance?  Then the fast food joints?  And then what - up the gas tax so we'll all feel so good about being green when we walk to work?  When all else fails, there's always the churches to tax - there's a lost source of revenue for ya!
With health insurance, though

we are all driving basically the same model and we are insuring it for what could possibly happen, not what will or actually does. 


Way back in the 1960s when I first started working, my company's health insurance did not cover single women for most 'female' issues, especially birth control and/or pregnancy-related issues, which has since been deemed discriminatory.  Now you must cover everyone equally for every contingency. 


The only way to individually ajust coverage costs would to be to exclude coverage based on genetic testing and/or family history, or maybe lifestyle issues such as alcohol or tobacco use or risky behavior like sky diving, which consumers have been fighting for years.  This would probably also be deemed discriminatory.


Clinton health care
President Clinton and the First Lady tried to get a universal health care plan passed but the republicans fought them all the way and it was dead in the water.  That was the first thing they focused on when starting his presidency.  Senator Ted Kennedy also has tried to get a health care plan passed but the republicans once again stopped him.  You see, with a health care plan drug companies, for profit hospitals, clinics, insurance companies wont become multi millionaires over the sickness and death of americans and republicans just cant let that happen, since it is just these types of companies that hire lobbyists who have the republican congress in their pockets.  Yes, it is Bushs fault.  He is the president, he has the power to sway the republican controlled congress.  Instead of focusing on tort reform, bankruptcy law changes, which will affect middle class workers, does nothing to stop the trumps and other big businesses from filing for bankruptcy, privatizing social security, nonbid contracts to cheneys old company, he needs to focus on what affects the american worker, the ones who pay the majority of the taxes.  Yes, healthcare is certainly one of the priorities for americans.  In every poll I have seen it rates right up there with iraq and jobs and gas prices. Bush is going to give iraq free health care..what are his priorities, definitely not for the workers of america. 
Someone has to pay for universal health care....
she knows that. Her plan will cost billions. The only way to pay for it is to force those who can afford it to buy it (as many choose not to so they can use that money for other things...and I don't mean eating...she knows that too). That is the one thing people who want socialized medicine, government-run health care don't realize. It is not FREE. If they don't get you in premiums they will get you in taxes...because who supplies the government with the money it spends...why that would be us, the taxpayers. What a concept. I don't know why Hillary saying she would not be opposed to garnishment should surprise anyone. That way when she hits us with higher taxes, they won't have to be quite as high. And don't think the "rich" can pick up the tab...they already pay way over 50% of the total tax money into the tills as it is, and there isn't enough money to go around. And while we are at it...show me a place in the Constitution where it says the government should provide health care, welfare, or anything like that? You won't find it. The founders were about less government, not more government. I don't understand why people would want to let themselves become tied to the government for their every need. Where does that place all the control? With the government, not with the people. Hello socialism, good-bye freedom. SIGH.
MANDATORY HEALTH INSURANCE
You said it so well! It will bring everyone down too. What about more sliding scale clinics? We have one where I live and the care is quite good. They have patients from all income levels. Maybe we should give more tax breaks to those sliding scale clinics and encourage people with good insurance and lots of money to attend those clinics more often in order that others with less can afford decent care. I wish the Clintons would quit trying to force their health care ideas down our throats. Maybe they want us all to be socialists? By the way in case you have not guessed by now I am a Lifelong Republican, soon to be a right wing independent unless Fred or Duncan Hunter win. No one should be "forced" to get health insurance, especially one of the "crap" varieties that you mention in your post.
Health care reform

What do I think about H. Clinton's mandatory health insurance proposal?


Here's my situation....I'm in my mid 50's, have a few pre-existing conditions, and am an IC doing medical transcription for years. I have health insurance which will cover the pre-existing conditions, however I rarely use the policy and have not been in a hospital for over 10 years. In 1999 my premium for coverage was about $250.00 per month. That same policy now costs me $1,097.00 per month, and that is coverage for one person.


I don't know about Hillary's proposals, or that much about anyone else's for all that goes. I do know however, that health care reform is being discussed again, and from where I am sitting I am a very strong supporter of health care reform, be it mandatory coverage or any other proposals. I frankly cannot afford monthly health insurance premiums that are running over one thousand dollars a month, and if you ask me, monthly health insurance premiums as high as this are criminal, to say the least.


illegal health care
I so agree with you on this. I typed a lot of reports a while back that are similar to what you are typing. Also, I thought it funny how many illegal adults were getting care through the hospital as well. The only way I knew this was those who were illegal did not have SS# when every other patient did. It's sad. I took a 2nd full-time job just so I could have insurance!
We are already paying for the health care

...of those folks you mention.  Who did you think pays for all the uninsured health care in this country?  Santa Claus?  Folks without insurance often wait until the last minute and then utilize ER services which in the end cost more than if they'd been followed in a clinic. 


It also sounds like you believe that kids of welfare abusers should be punished because their parents can't/don't/won't provide for them.  I don't agree.  All children deserve basic care regardless of who their parents are.  We are a wealthy country, after all. 


Personally, I'd be happy to pitch in on my taxes to help provide a health care program for the uninsured.  Better that than funding a war in Iraq.


Mental Health issues

When we finally have universal health care, maybe those suffering from 911 Tourette's and Clinton sex life Tourette's will seek treatment? Wishful thinking or not? I am soliciting opinons.


 


health care question
I am wondering if all government employees have health care coverage, that would be, for instance, nurses in VA Hospitals, clerical workers, postal workers. I assume all civil servants have health care coverage, but how inclusive is it? If you have taken the civil service exam and have gained employment through that process, what type of coverage is available. Is it just like the rest of us, 5 to 6 convoluted plans offered as "options" or is it more like full coverage with doctors and hospitals of your choice and perhaps even alternative medicine included. Is a respiratory therapist at a VA Hospital for instance, considered a government employee or simply at respiratory therapist who works at the VA?? The reason I ask these questions is that I see a good deal of what I would describe as socialized medicine going on in the present as well as the past. Poor people have Medicaid, older people have Medicare, some states have supplements to both, i.e. TennCare and California something or other. The VA has programs, some lacking, some not; but available to all who seek it. Elected representatives have full coverage. There is coverage for children (though recently nipped in the bud) but still there is coverage available provided by the government so it seems to me that we have partial socialized medicine here already. This is a serious question and I would like to hear, bearing in mind the above  (I admit you could fill the Library of Congress with what I don't know about the intricacies of insurance coverage - please no snide comments here) but I want to know why socialized medicine seems such a threat to people when we already have so much of it which does not concern one iota those who benefit from it.
Obama and health care.
Listen,

It is human nature to be scared of of something different, People will remain in jobs while their wages sink, afraid that things could be worse if they leave.

There are reasons this time around that the AMA, the American Cancer Society and namy other prominant organizations are encouraging a single payer system, the reason being that the current system in in a shambles, and serving less and less. The premiums are exhorbitant not only for individuals but businesses as well, the current system is severely crippling job grown, and as an aside if one is so fortunate as to have health insurance, well over 70% of legitimate claims are being denied routinely.

When things get to that point, and they have, it is better to swallow the fear and make some changes when the current system is in a complete shambles. The benefits far outway the fear of making changes to a severely flawed system.
universal health care
Sorry, but I don't need that help. Having done my own research, I know that the health care system in Canada (your example) has major flaws, like ridiculous waits for even the most simple testing, not to mention the lack of choices for one's care, and that other countries have substandard care because of their universal systems. All this does is invite "country club medicine." Canadian citizens come to the US and pay out of their own pockets because their system does not work for them. If you think govt control is the answer to health care, you only need to look at what they have done to Medicare and Medicaid. Obama's health plan is one more component in his overall plan toward the socialization of this country. Hope you like it when your hard work and your paycheck does nothing BUT support others. Where is the incentive to work? Don't get me wrong; I do believe every individual should have access to health care. I also think every individual who is capable of contributing (working) should have to do so in order to reap that benefit, and I do not think government intervention is the answer. And your whole statement about the CEOs being rich makes me so nervous. What is your solution there? spread the wealth? She/he is not entitled to have more money than you? Yup, another step toward the socialization of this country. See how well that has worked worldwide.
You view of the dem health insurance is way..sm
too simplistic. The idea is to have people pay what they can afford on a sliding scale for private health insurance. You have your private doctor and everything you have with your insurance now, much like people who have been in Medicaid. The only difference is that Medicaid is for the poorest and is free. The Obama insurance would cost what is a reasonable price based on what you can afford. I am not a know it all about this subject, but this is basically what I understand about it. It would not be run like the VA. I think we should bag the VA from the horrors I have heard about them. For shame treating our veterans like that!
economy, war, health care nm
nm
What do you actually know about health care in Cuba? sm
from what I have been able to find out about it, Cuba has excellent basic healthcare for all. Do you have sources that say different, or are you just guessing?
Patriot Act/health care
You mean HC, of course. She was not different than any other congress and senate members. Patriot Act parts 1 and 2 were passed BEFORE the Iraq War WMD Bush lies, people die justification based on faulty intelligence was revealed. It makes me crazy that it is still there and I truly hope to see it revised or scrapped sometime in the next 4 years.

I am asking you, seriously...do you know when you started feeling vulnerable to govt control? I feel that too, but I am sure for different reasons than you...and I really am interested to know what make you feel that way.

Obama's plan is not a socialist plan like the ones you are referring to. He is not taking free enterprise out of health care. He is proposing to open up the existing plan that now covers Congress, the senate and federal employees. I have looked at that plan. It offers a number of choices in terms of deductible amounts, types of coverage (HMO, PPO, etc), premium amounts and the like. Pre-existing conditions are covered under some of those plans, if not all of them. He is aiming his pre-existing changes toward private insurance companies as part of his health plan.

It works like any other group plan. If you broaden the base of employees (in this case, citizens added to the plan by CHOICE, not force), the premiums come down. The care remains the same. You are free to choose the plan that best suits your needs or elect to keep your existing insurance. For Obama, it is a question of giving people access to affordable health care. He is not suggesting to transfer tax dollars to create the kind of plan you are describing that you consider to be subpar.

What is TriCare? I have to leave for a little while, but when I get back I will try to retrieve the link I used to inspect the existing federal plan and if I find it, I will post it later this afternoon. BTW, I know I come on strong and use sarcasm to a fault when I feel I am dealing with a poster who I think (sometimes mistakenly) is either ill informed or showing disrespect...not when having healthy debates over differences in opinion, beliefs or ideology. Those debates end up being the most informative of all and are a lot more satisfying than just preaching to the choir.

I wish you well Marmann and good health
We may not agree on politics but I wish you all the best in whatever you are going through. Hope you won't have a long hospital stay. Take care.
cancer and national health
It's these sort of false concerns -- LOOK OUT, SIX TO TWELVE MONTH WAITS AND BY THEN YOU'RE DEAD! DEAD!!!! -- that impede progress toward a fair healthcare system. They're repetition of talking points, nothing more. A ten-second internet search would tell you, for instance, that in the UK:

-Over 99% of people with suspected cancer are now seen by a specialist within two
weeks of being urgently referred by their GP.

-Over 99% of patients with cancer are receiving their first treatment within one
month of diagnosis.

-Over 96% of patients with cancer are receiving their first treatment within two
months of being urgently referred by their GP.

Now I'll leave it to you and Google to find the comparable numbers for the US.

The larger point is, though, that if you decide this nation doesn't need universal healthcare, then you need to say exactly who it is you don't want care provided to. Because that's all this ever comes down to: Who do you include, and who do you leave out?
Health insurance for children up to age 30...
Does no one see what is wrong with this picture?


Hint.....children.....30-year-old children...those children that should have their own jobs and their own health insurance.



$300 for health insurance is a deal.

cost $1,000 or more a month?


Health insurance premiums, plus their refusal to insure people with preexisting conditions, are becoming prohibitive costwise for many (millions of Americans) to afford.


Though the example you gave may be true for some younger folks, I believe that's the exception and not the rule.


There is a huge crisis in healthcare in this country today.  Good for you that you can afford it and just blame everyone else who can't.  Maybe someday soon you'll be in the same boat with the 50-odd million Americans who simply can't afford it.  Who will you blame then?


Another post about health care.....

Consider this post educational. This is a post, from someone who lives with a single-payer health care system in a social democracy, explaining why I believe that this is a good way to make sure that everyone can receive health care.


Health care stateside costs more than 2.8 trillion USD per year. More than HALF of that money is spent on clerical help, at the doctor's office, at the lab, at the hospital, at the insurer, by the insurer to deny coverage for whatever they can deny. The reason that 62% of bankruptcies every year are due to catastrophic medical emergencies and 78% of those emergencies are insured, including 60% who had private insurance, not medicaid.., is the profit motive and the incentive it provides to deny coverage (stats from recent Harvard study). The same study found that most of these bankruptcies were solidly middle-class people hit by an unexpected medical emergency. These are not the powerless of the world; these are the people that keep the economy running.


The US spends more per capita on health care than any other developed nation, for a lower standard of care and a poorer result.


For instance, Canada's lifetime risk of maternal death is 1 in 11,000; not as good as Austria and Norway, but in the top 11. The US risk is 1 in 4,800 about twice Canada's rate and close to Mauritius. (Stats from Unicef) If you look closer at rates by race, you find that white women have about the same risk as women in Canada; blacks and Hispanics make up the difference, and that was shocking to me. Another shock to me was to find that more than one woman had been denied maternity care, as it was a pre-existing condition. Oh yes, and that Viagra is covered, but birth control often is not.


As it stands now, the US government covers the elderly, infirm, disabled and the poor. The private insurers get their pick of those that remain, and insurance is tied to your employment, which means that you are liable to find yourself without insurance at the very point that you need it most. Insurance often covers a portion of prescriptions, vision care and dental, but only a portion and not always. The portion of coverage declines the more common the need is. There are no drug price caps; the US is practically the only nation in the world not to have them.


IF the government were to cover everyone via a single-payer system, the cost of insuring everyone would cost less, much less than that 2.8 trillion every year.


Single-payer is not socialized medicine. It is exactly what it says it is. The government acts as the main insurer. Doctors are mostly in private practice, although there are a few clinics, usually attached to hospitals. Hospitals tend to be run either by the province or as charitable or private entities, or a combination of both. The choice of doctor is left to the patient; truthfully, patients in Canada have a larger choice of doctors than patients in the US. One's insurer doesn't dictate one's health care provider. It is true that we do not, currently, have dental or prescription care provided by medicare. That is, as it is stateside, covered by a private insurer, if at all. On the other hand, medications here are 1/3 of the price, generally, that they are stateside.


Doctors are paid by the government, yes, but they are billed in the same way an insurer would be. They are paid for provision of services. The main difference is that the insurer is the government; that means that between 10 and 30% of the cost of providing the service is cut. The government doesn't take a profit, doesn't deny services, gives no bonuses for denying services, and has, in fact, no interest in denying services. This means that everyone, regardless of pre-existing conditions, is covered.


Malpractice suits are not as onerous here as there. There is a cost, of course, associated with lost wages, pain and suffering, punitive damages, lost companionship or a lost parent, but there is no cost associated with lifetime medical care, which is the biggest portion of the US awards. Since health care is taken care of by the government, there is no extra cost for this; the government won't deny coverage, which a private insurer will. It has nothing to do with the government restricting awards; it has everything to do with future health care being taken care of.


How is it paid for? At the beginning, it was paid for through a payment collected by your employer. If I recall correctly, it was $33.00 per person at the beginning. It worked, and well, but it became obvious that the cheapest way to provide healthcare was to charge everyone through taxes, which were progressive, as a flat charge was not. Taxes were charged on tobacco and alcohol to offset the social and medical costs of their use, and that's a fair way to deal with it. Are taxes higher here? Actually, not much.


That is, in part, due to a different set of priorities.


However, If you can find a trillion dollars in three or four days to keep a bloated and corrupt Wall Street afloat, and a couple of trillion dollars for the occupation of Iraq, shouldn't it be as easy to find cash to institute single payer health care in order to keep the population healthy and relieve the burden of increasing health care costs on business?


Health care unionized?
Well I never....I've heard lots of union bashing but that's a new one.
For your own mental health, go to the conservative board. sm
You will be better understood and accepted there.

Find the love.
Health insurance is my number 1 issue

I agree with some of what you said about the state representatives being held accountable.  I did vote for Senate candidates in the last election based on their stances on healthcare.  One of them has been working tirelessly (with many others) to expand CHIP health insurance to kids to more middle-income children in the state, and he was successful!  Now that the income bracket was raised, my 6-year-old has healthcare again, and I am so grateful! (Bush is threatening to veto the legislation that expanded CHIP to more families, though, so I'm praying he does not do that).


I am relatively young (26) and so many of my friends do not vote.  I am always encouraging them to do just that (whether they vote Democrat or Republican), and I think if Senate recall (I think that's what you called it) was in place, more of them might vote.  For now, we just have to hope they keep their campaign promises in hopes of being re-elected.


I know Congress needs to pass the bills on health insurance, and I know many of the Congressmen (on both sides of the aisle) have been bought and paid for by the insurance companies, and that is very disturbing to me.  That's one of the reasons I like Obama so much - I think he is a good man who has not been "bought and paid for" by any big corporations.


I think America needs to cover all medical costs for our children and our elderly, and I hope more Republicans candidates will address that issue.  We need to take better care of our most helpless citizens.


 


Agree illegal health care has got to go!
I type an account where there appears to be many illegal aliens in that area, in that 90% of the babies getting tests have a hispanic last name and its often mentioned interpreters were needed to speak to the parents.  Some never get a first name, I'd say at least 25% of the babies I type reports for have been in and out of intensive care for up to a year and still are going by "babyboy" or "babygirl" as a first name.  Page after page of tests performed for each baby, and that's just in my specialty!  We have to be spending millions on this and for what, to enourage them to come here and dump their babies at the hospital at birth and not even bother to name them?  It makes me really disgusted to type the 50th report for "babyboy gonzalez" who is 18 months old and still in the ICU for congenital heart problems/lung problems, knowing darn well his healthcare is free while I can barely afford to insure my own child!  We owe these illegals nothing yet we rob from our own to cater to them!  Are we crazy?
To me $1000 health insurance premium is a lot

That's fine you don't care about the fact that many families are working their fingers to the bone just to pay for necessities, including health insurance, but I do.  I care very much and am very sad that so many people in this country only seem to care about children that come from upper middle class and rich families.  I guess they deserve better health care than the middle-class kids.  I don't know how people that feel that way can go to bed with a clear conscience.


People in Congress that we took the time to elect put a lot of effort into negotiating this bill to make both parties relatively happy.  YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE TAXED FOR IT.  THE CIGARETTE TAX WOULD HAVE GONE UP.  Keep telling yourself what you need to tell yourself to sleep at night, but the fact is kids with diabetes from a lower-middle-class income family have less of a chance of surviving than a child from an upper class income family.  That is a sad, sad, fact.


You keep saying I don't want affordable health care for children...
I have said the opposite. What I don't want is expansion of a program that is already NOT working. WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE NOT WILLING TO WAIT SIX MONTHS FOR A BETTER PROGRAM? WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW?? See, we could yell at each other over this from now on, and never agree. I would like the waste to stop. Yes, I would. I would like to see Social Security fixed. Yes I would. The war in Iraq is going on, and until our troops are home, I don't want funding pulled from there, that is right, I don't. I would like for goverment to be in my pocket less, yes. I would like to see a push toward individual responsibility again, yes I would. I don't think the government should provide health care for adults, and yes, it scares me to make the government responsible for kids health care. Look how they managed Medicare...Medicaid...good grief!! Why not try to get this program RIGHT? Why just throw more money at the waste? Basically what you are talking about is socialism, and that is more scary to me than anything else we have discussed here. And, frankly, as far as common sense goes...I think you are not thinking in the long run of where government run health care leads. It leads to lines, it leads to substandard care...I hate to say it, but look at the VA system. Tell me THAT government-run health care is working?? We know it DOESN'T. Veterans have to wait very, very long lengths of time for care, for appointments...what makes you think government run health care for children would be any better?? It is better to leave it in the private sector where there is competition and the care is better? Let's reward responsibility and give those $80K families tax relief. Make it mandatory for parents to cover their kids like it is mandatory that they ride in car seats and wear seat belts. Let's reward responsibility and keep level of care where it is. Please, please let's not go down the socialized medicine road just to get free health care....I honestly, as God is my witness, do not think it will benefit kids in the long run if they are all in some kind of government health plan.

As to Bush, I could care less what the headlines are. All I am saying is that the Dems in Congress are using this as an election sound bite and the Republicans who voted with them are doing the same. Misguided, all of them, in my opinion. While I do not agree with Bush on a multitude of things, I do agree with him on keeping health care in the private sector and the government OUT of it.
I agree that there is a problem with health care...
and insurance in this country. What I disagree with is expanding yet another entitlement program to throw more money down an endless well.

This is what Huckabee has to say, and I think it makes a lot of sense:

The health care system in this country is irrevocably broken, in part because it is only a "health care" system, not a "health" system.

We don't need universal health care mandated by federal edict.
We do need to get serious about preventive health care.
I advocate policies that will encourage the private sector to seek innovative ways to bring down costs.
I value the states' role as laboratories for new market-based approaches.
When I'm President, Americans will have more control of their health care options, not less.
As President, I will work with the private sector, Congress, health care providers, and other concerned parties to lead a complete overhaul of our health care system.
Our health care system is making our businesses non-competitive in the global economy. It is time to recognize that jobs don't need health care, people do, and move from employer-based to consumer-based health care.

The health care system in this country is irrevocably broken, in part because it is only a "health care" system, not a "health" system. We don't need universal health care mandated by federal edict or funded through ever-higher taxes. We do need to get serious about preventive health care instead of chasing more and more dollars to treat chronic disease, which currently gobbles up 80% of our health care costs, and yet is often avoidable. The result is that we'll be able to deliver better care where and when it's needed.

I advocate policies that will encourage the private sector to seek innovative ways to bring down costs and improve the free market for health care services. We have to change a system that happily pays $30,000 for a diabetic to have his foot amputated, but won't pay for the shoes that would save his foot.

We can make health care more affordable by reforming medical liability; adopting electronic record keeping; making health insurance more portable from one job to another; expanding health savings accounts to everyone, not just those with high deductibles; and making health insurance tax deductible for individuals and families as it now is for businesses. Low income families would get tax credits instead of deductions. We don't need all the government controls that would inevitably come with universal health care. When I'm President, Americans will have more control of their health care options, not less.

I also value the states' role as laboratories for new market-based approaches, and I will encourage those efforts. As President I will work with the private sector, Congress, health care providers, and other concerned parties to lead a complete overhaul of our health care system, not more of the same, paid for by Uncle Sam at the expense of hard-working families.

Health care spending is now about $2 trillion a year, which is close to $7,000 for each one of us. It consumes about 17% of our gross domestic product, easily surpassing the few European nations where spending is close to 10% and far higher than any other country in the world. If we reduced our out-of-control health care costs from 17% to 11%, we'd save $700 billion a year, which is about twice our annual national deficit.

Our health care system is making our businesses non-competitive in the global economy. General Motors spends more on health care than it does on steel, $1,500 per car. Starbucks spends more on health care than it does on coffee beans. We have an employer-based system from the 1940's, a system devised not because it was the best way to provide health care, but as a way around World War II wage-and-price controls. Costs have skyrocketed because the party paying for the health care - the employer - and the party using the health care - the employee - are not the same. It is human nature to consume more of something that is essentially free.

Workers complain that their wages are stagnant, but businesses reply that their total compensation costs are rising significantly because they are paying so much more for health care. Health care costs are adversely affecting your paycheck, even if you're healthy. Some Americans are afraid to change jobs or start their own businesses because they're afraid of losing their health insurance. It is time to recognize that jobs don't need health insurance, people do, and to ease the burden on our businesses. Our employer-based system has outlived its usefulness, but the answer is a consumer-based system, not socialized medicine.

As a personal aside, I have one of those health savings accounts and it has helped me on more than one occasion. I like the idea of deductions for health insurance premiums for everyone. I like that a lot. I like the idea of tax credits for lower income people who maintain their own insurance. Child care credits worked. Why wouldn't child health care credits?

I just don't think another wide open *gimme* program will work. This program as it went to Bush would open the doors to higher income people who are now paying their own premiums to stop doing that and get on a program. That is going in the WRONG direction. Instead give those people tax deductions for 100% of those premiums paid. For those who are in the lower income brackets struggling to pay their own premiums so as not to get on a program, reward that with tax credits. Let's reward responsibility instead of encourage irresponsibility.

Just one humble opinion.


No posts regarding war, poverty, health care....
only bush bashing. Don't pretend you actuallyt talk about issues here. You don't.
Socialized health care = semantics...
what it boils down to is, when you have the federal government start administering all health care, quality of care will go down, not up, and access to care will be even more difficult. You cited Medicare and Medicaid...both rife with waste and fraud. We read about it every other day. The VA system for soldiers is federally run...tell me how well THAT is working, and that is not for every person in the US. I would like a poll of rank and file Canadians...I would like to know what individuals think of their health system. The only one I saw quoted said 55% of his paycheck is taken off the top for taxes, and a large part of that is what funds the health care system. There ARE waiting lists for operations. And even if you have the money privately to pay for your own operation if time constraint is involved, you are NOT allowed to jump the "list." That is why many Canadians cross the border for emergent care and surgery. Just a couple of weeks ago there was the story of the two women with high-risk pregnancies who could not be hospitalized because there was nowhere to put them. They ended up in Seattle.

So no thanks. I would much rather have a full cost of premiums tax refund, which is what some have proposed. Yeah, you will still have to cough up the premiums for a year, but then if you take your refund at the end of the year and put it in the bank...voila. There are your premiums for the next year. And we can keep the quality of care we have and the access we have.

That would be my choice, far, far ahead of any kind of federal government subsidized and administered health care...which is what Hillary is proposing, only calling it "universal" instead of socialized. Same difference.
More on the French health care system...

reality rears its ugly head....










French healthcare is 'badly run'





Healthcare
Plans for spending cuts have drawn protests from health workers
France must make big changes to its health system in order to cut waste and increase efficiency, a government-commissioned report is warning.

The report says citizens must pay more and doctors must alter their behaviour.

Failure to do so could add 66 billion euros a year to France's public budget deficit by 2020, it adds.

The warning comes after thousands of health workers protested on Thursday over staff shortages and the "creeping privatisation" of the health system.


'Badly regulated'

The report was written by the High Council for the Future of Health Insurance, an advisory body set up by the government as it prepares to introduce healthcare reform legislation in June.






"
PRESCRIPTION BILL


Average French GP prescribes drugs worth 260,000 euros a year

The French use three times as many antibiotics as Germans

They use twice as many anti-cholestorol drugs as Britons

A fifth of health spending goes on pharmaceuticals
It includes representatives from the health insurance industry, trade unions and medical professionals.


The report was given to the Health Ministry on Friday, but details were leaked by the Reuters news agency which saw a copy.

The standard of care provided by French doctors is ranked among the best in the world, but the report says the system is "badly regulated and badly governed".

"The High Council believes that general confusion over who is in charge of what partly explains the excesses," it says.

"Everyone - institutions, healthcare professionals and social security contributors - will have to change their behaviour."

Higher insurance payments?

The report says French general practitioners prescribe on average 260,000 euros' worth of drugs a year.






"
BUDGET STRAINS


Health spending nearing 9% of GDP

Projected healthcare deficit this year - 10.9 billion euros

Deficit in 2010 if nothing is done - 29 billion euros

Healthcare deficit to account for 20% of total public deficit this year
It says the French consume three times as many antibiotics as the Germans, and more than twice as many anti-cholesterol drugs as the British.

The council also highlights the CSG welfare levy - a charge paid by workers, the unemployed and pensioners - as an area for possible reform.

"The High Council is unanimous in its refusal to turn to massive indebtedness to cover the growth in health insurance expenditure," the report said.

"The CSG, with its large base and the principle of proportionality that underpins it, could seem like a possible answer," it said.

The council said even a structural shake-up of the system would not necessarily rule out the need to raise further revenues.

Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin, which set up the council last October to advise the government on healthcare reform, said last week the government had not been planning a rise in the CSG as part of the healthcare reforms.

Growing deficit

The report says an ageing population and the high cost of advanced treatments will help push health spending past 9% of gross domestic product - one of the highest levels in the world.






"
Number of doctors per 1,000 people


Italy - 4.1

France - 3.3

Germany - 3.3

UK - 2.0

Japan - 1.9

Source: British Medical Association. Figures for 2000
Experts have already warned that a projected healthcare deficit of 10.9 billion euros this year could rise to 29 billion euros by 2010, unless action is taken.

Looking further ahead, the report says the deficit could rise to 66 billion euros by 2020.

Health Minister Jean-Francois Mattei has already put forward a plan known as "Hospital 2007" proposing management reforms and a new emphasis on cost assessment.

Problems in the French health system were exposed last year, when a heat wave killed around 15,000 mostly elderly people.

There was also a bed shortage in hospitals in December, when a nationwide flu and bronchitis epidemic broke out.


The US has the best health care system in the world...s/m


AP
US among worst in world for infant death





By The Associated Press 2 hours, 58 minutes ago



The rate at which infants die in the United States has dropped substantially over the past half-century, but broad disparities remain among racial groups, and the country stacks up poorly next to other industrialized nations.


In 2004, the most recent year for which statistics are available, roughly seven babies died for every 1,000 live births before reaching their first birthday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says. That was down from about 26 in 1960.


Babies born to black mothers died at two and a half times the rate of those born to white mothers, according to the CDC figures.


The United States ranks near the bottom for infant survival rates among modernized nations. A Save the Children report last year placed the United States ahead of only Latvia, and tied with Hungary, Malta, Poland and Slovakia.


The same report noted the United States had more neonatologists and newborn intensive care beds per person than Australia, Canada and the United Kingdom — but still had a higher rate of infant mortality than any of those nations.


Doctors and analysts blame broad disparities in access to health care among racial and income groups in the United States.


Not surprisingly, the picture is far bleaker in poorer countries, particularly in Africa. A 2005 World Health Organization report found infant mortality rates as high as 144 per 1,000 births — more than 20 times the U.S. rate — in Liberia.


The health care costs are the factor that
takes UAW hourly wages from $28 to $73, along with their other benefits, pension, matching funds and the like. The national insurance coverage was what I was referring when talking how the new administration may or may not impact this situation. The nonunion figures I gave are for the US Toyota workers. I don't think they can take advantage of the national insurance coverage the global Toyota workers have, but I could be mistaken. The more we talk about this, the more interesting it becomes. I wish I knew where to go to get reliable information on this.
The Candidate's Health Insurance Plans
MCCAIN:

• McCain's health care plan will increase taxes on employer-based insurance, and kick 20 million people off the rolls.

• McCain's plan will throw you into the individual market, where the same plan your employer offered will cost $2,000 more, and you can be refused care because you were sick 10 years ago.

• McCain's plan will shift costs onto the sick.

OBAMA:

• Obama's plan will cover tens of millions of Americans and reform the insurance industry such that everyone gets a fair deal and no one can be discriminated against because they were once sick or unlucky.

• It will create a group market that businesses can buy their employees into so that a small business that paints homes doesn't have to run a tiny insurance company on the side and an entrepreneur can pursue his idea without having to learn about health coverage regulations.

• It will cover all children. And Christ almighty, isn't it time we did at least that?
Because the health care plan we have does not work at all.
10,000 deductible a year which is taking 10 grand from my yearly income a year.

Canada's health care plan works. Duplicate it.

Figure something out that doesnt make lobbyists and CEOs of ins. co. filthy rich.

Sound unreasonable? If so, and you think everyth8ing is just ~fine~ you should seek some help for the sake of your country.
Canada's health plan does not work...
that is why people with critical illnesses cross the border to come HERE for treatment. Taxes have gone up dramatically trying to pay for the rising costs. You will pay it in deductibles or pay it in taxes...but you will pay it in a national health care system.

McCain has already enunciated his plan to take care of the "golden parachute" crowd. It is a good plan. He has a plan in place to handle earmarking and lobbying. Saying as President "I will veto those bills and name those who seek to add pork and you will know their names." Good for him!! And he means EITHER party. He puts his country first and wants to make government like it is supposed to be...to serve WE, the people. Yet another reason I am voting McCain. Country First is not just a slogan.
financial disaster, war, health care
You decide what is most important to think about. 
link to mcClain's health deregulation






The Ad: We've seen what Bush-McCain policies have done to our economy. Now John McCain wants to do the same to our health care. McCain just published an article praising Wall Street deregulation. Said he'd reduce oversight of the health insurance industry, too. Just "as we have done over the last decade in banking." Increasing costs and threatening coverage. A prescription for disaster. John McCain. A risk we just can't afford to take.

An article in the obscure journal Contingencies, published under McCain's name, says: "Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous, nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation."


In the article, the Arizona senator certainly sounds like the strong advocate of deregulation he has always been. And the timing makes McCain sound like he is defending the loosening of federal rules on banks, now widely blamed for the Wall Street turmoil that has led President Bush to propose a $700 billion bailout of the banking and credit industries


 


Deregulation of health care system...
kiss your butt good-bye. 
Obama says you can keep your employer health care....
but if you don't have, the government will step in. Under his tax proposals, how long do you think business will be able to afford health care for employees? Not very darned long. So, in the end, he gets what he wants...government controlled health care. He has changed the way he described it to try to end around the socialism tag of universal health care. Nice try, but no cigar. He is not fooling me. But, I don't take every word that falls out of his mouth as gospel like some do either (and I am not singling you out specifically).
off the subject of gyno and onto mental health -
In Georgia, my 16 year old son decided he wanted to kill himself (not really, it was a power struggle between me and him whether he could go to his girlfriend's house that day). Well, my mother went to where he was and took him to the ER. I went to the hospital and because my 16 year old son said he did not want to see me and that I did not have custody of him, they had the police escort me out of the hospital (after asking me to sign the financial forms). I did not sign anything and left the hospital.

I came back to my home, got my custody papers, went back to the hospital whereupon I found out he had been transferred to another facility. They refused to tell me where they sent him because they said they had already talked to a guardian (not true, my father happened to be in the ER visiting someone else and saw my son sitting in the examination room and was there when they transferred him).

However, I am now being sued by 2 different hospitals for around $10,000 because I am the parent that lives at the address my son put on his paperwork. My exhusband, where my son actually did live is not being sued. They told me I would have to get my half of the money back from him.

The law protects minors!