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Posted By: Orange orange on 2008-12-09
In Reply to: Just a thought about this. - Backwards typist

You know what truly amazes me? EVERYONE srcutinizes Obama for EVERY LITTLE THING from the b/c issue to his education, whether he is muslim, is he a terrorist, does he believe in this or that,etc but while GWB did pretty much whatever he wanted especially outside of the law whether it be national/international and the level of scrutiny bestowed upon him when he was first elected to office up until now has been been pretty much nonexistent.. or people saying 'i don't trust him', ' he frightens me' 'he is scary'.  Should have been afraid of Bush and truly fear what you MAY NEVER know regarding the true state of this country of the last eight years..truly amazing


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Any so-called knowledge can later prove to be wrong.  There are very few absolutes in this world.   I do know that the 1990s saw a dessimation in our human intelligence gathering.  We need to get back to being good at that.  If a threat is there, I'm not willing to wait until people die to do something about it.   If you are, then I hope it's not one of my loved  ones in the next airplane or subway or building.  As for Al-Qaeda, there  has been much damage done to that organization.   Of course the news doesn't  play that up very much,  but it's happening.  We're still looking  for Bin Laden, we're still chasing  Al-Qaeda,  and  we're planting a seed in the middle east that will hopefully someday (and it may take longer than your  of my lifetime to accomplish) make a change in the middle east that will hopefully keep the horror of terrorism at least under control.  We fought the Japanese, we fought the Nazis...  I think we can handle Iraq and Al-Qaeda.  As for N. Korea, you can't do anything there because they already HAVE the nukes.   At least we can cross  Iraq off the list for sure in the nuke department.
Thanks for the reply. (nm)
nm
Reply....
You missed my point also, because you are still harping on abortion "against God's will." No matter how many times I say it, you will not hear it, because it does not further your agenda to hear it.

I am not against abortion because it is against God's will. I am against abortion because it is murder, and it is murder of the most innocent life that exists. That is a deeply moral issue, and it does not stem from what or what is not God's will. You said you and God parted company a long time ago, but I am willing to bet your morality did not part and go with God...you kept it, right? Of course you did. Because we all have basic morality, whether or not you choose to believe in God. Belief in God validates and enhances that morality, but even those of you who do not believe in God have morals...right? Of COURSE you do. There are people who are NOT religious who oppose abortion on a strictly moral level. As that article said that I posted, if I lost my faith today, I would still morally oppose abortion. Yet it is more comfortable for you to claim that I am against abortion "in the name of God." I am against abortion because it is morally wrong. PERIOD.

Being pro choice does mean being pro abortion. If you vote for the right to choose, you are putting the okay stamp on it. You can spin it however you like, but the truth remains. It is your choice to do so, yes, but at least have the guts say so.

I have already said that I work toward supporting women who decide to make a choice for life. If they decide to go ahead with the abortion, they do not get condemnation from me, but they certainly know were I stand, and they also respect what I am doing and understand why I am doing it. Much unlike you ladies.

Again....try to let this sink into your closed mind. I am trying to give the CHILD a choice. The CHILD has no voice. You are taking that away from them. They have no recourse, no place to run, no place to hide. All they can do is endure being sliced and diced to have their brain sucked out. You want the MOTHER to have the choice, the voice, the power. I am merely saying that the CHILD deserves SOMETHING here, doesn't it? Doesn't something in your moral structure scream out to you that the CHILD deserves SOME consideration in all this?? That is where I and others like me come in. Because we believe the child DOES deserve consideration, DOES deserve to have a voice.

You say "I have intolerance for those who cannot take another's opinion or perception without tearing it down." Is that not EXACTLY what all your posts do to my opinions and perceptions? Including completely ignoring what I am actually saying and trying to put words in my mouth to suit your anti-God agenda.

You can't see the forest for the trees.
my reply
was meant in a humorous, light tone.  Sorry you are so unhappy with current events. 
reply

As far as who can accomplish all these goals -- a journey begins with a single step. Barack is willing to start the journey. McCain stubbornly refuses to change course.   If he does not live up to his hopes - another election in 4 years. 


Experience -- time and time again current events have proven Barack's thoughtfulness and judgment have proven true.  Even the current administration is following the course for a time-table that Barack proposed so long ago.


I do not see Barack as a savior -- I see a fine man with a vision for our country that matches my own.


 


 


Reply...
THE FACTS: McCain's phrasing exaggerates both of these claims. Palin is governor of a state that ranks second nationally in crude oil production, but she's no more "responsible" for that resource than President Bush was when he was governor of Texas, another oil-producing state. In fact, her primary power is the ability to tax oil, which she did in concert with the Alaska Legislature. And where McCain called Alaska the largest state in America, he could as easily have called it the 47th largest state — by population.

MORE FACTS: She is responsible for negotiating any drilling of those resources. "Primary power" may be taxation, but she also has to oversee environmental issues, etc. She cracked the monopoly and forced oil companies to bid again, and she made a necessary portion of the bid that they address environmental issues. That was left out of the FACTS. While the population of the state may not be in proportion to the size of the state, her latest approval rating is 86%. That is unheard of. None of the other candidates enjoy that as senators from their respective states. That was also left out of the FACTS.

THE FACTS: While governors are in charge of their state guard units, that authority ends whenever those units are called to actual military service. When guard units are deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, for example, they assume those duties under "federal status," which means they report to the Defense Department, not their governors. Alaska's national guard units have a total of about 4,200 personnel, among the smallest of state guard organizations.

MORE FACTS: When the National Guard is called up within a state, the governor does have the primary responsibility of mobilization and oversight. Since she is 50 miles from Russia, having control of the National Guard in that state is certainly central to our national security. And the operative word is AFTER the unit is deployed. Making the decision to call them up and send them to war IS her decision, and DOES affect national security.

THE FACTS: A Back-to-the-Future moment. George W. Bush, a conservative Republican, has been president for nearly eight years. And until last year, Republicans controlled Congress. Only since January of 2007 have Democrats have been in charge of the House and Senate.

MORE FACTS: This is true. But if Democrats truly believe in hope and change, they have had since January to actually do it. Have seen zip, zilch, nada. Got news for you...Bush is not a true conservative, especially fiscally obviously. McCain is.

THE FACTS: It's true that Obama voted "present" dozens of times, among the thousands of votes he cast in an eight-year span in Springfield. Illinois lawmakers commonly vote that way on a variety of issues for technical, legal or strategic reasons. Obama, for instance, voted "present" on some abortion measures to encourage wavering legislators to do the same instead of voting "yes." Their "present" votes had the same effect as "no" votes and helped defeat the bills. Voting this way also can be a way to duck a difficult issue, although that's difficult to prove.

MORE FACTS: Nice spin. He still voted "present." If he can't make a decision on those bills, he is going to be able to make the big ones to run the country? You can't vote present in the oval office. However, he did show up to vote NO to the Infants Born Alive act...twice.

THE FACTS: The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama's plan would increase after-tax income for middle-income taxpayers by about 5 percent by 2012, or nearly $2,200 annually. McCain's plan, which cuts taxes across all income levels, would raise after tax-income for middle-income taxpayers by 3 percent, the center concluded.



Obama would provide $80 billion in tax breaks, mainly for poor workers and the elderly, including tripling the Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credits for larger families.



He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest. He would raise payroll taxes on taxpayers with incomes over $250,000, and he would raise corporate taxes. Small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year would see taxes rise.

MORE FACTS: Look at this and digest it. First paragraph...Obama's plan will raise income for middle income taxpayers by 5% by 2012...he does not define "middle class." McCain's plan is going to CUT taxes across all levels and still raise the "middle income" by 3%. I think I will take the tax cut and the 3%. No brainer.

Obama wants to provide 80 billion in tax breaks to people who already pay almost 0 taxes. Where, pray tell, is that $80 billion going to come from?? Taxing the "rich" which will trickle down to loss of jobs and depression of the economy. Won't work. Never works. Case in point..small businesses that make more than $250,000 would see taxes rise. That is about every small family business in this country, who employ a lot of people. Just throw them all under the bus in order to cut taxes for people who pay the least taxes of all of us ANYWAY.

NO THANKS.



reply

Throw that hood in the wash, its getting dingy.  12 year olds, we know what you are saying there.


I made no "moral judgment" on SP's premarital pregnancy - merely pointing out the historical precedent she set.


 


 


I did reply, it is below....but I will reply again here...
I cannot find anything where Republicans voted for this issue before they voted against it. If you can, present it. I looked. In the case when McCain co-sponsored the bill that I have posted information about, where he predicted this exact thing happening, it never made it out of the committee. All the Republicans on the comittee voted for it, all of the Democrats on the comittee voted against it.

This is what the bill would have done:
1) in lieu of the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight of the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), an independent Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Agency which shall have authority over the Federal Home Loan Bank Finance Corporation, the Federal Home Loan Banks, the Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae), and the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie Mac); and (2) the Federal Housing Enterprise Board.
Sets forth operating, administrative, and regulatory provisions of the Agency, including provisions respecting: (1) assessment authority; (2) authority to limit nonmission-related assets; (3) minimum and critical capital levels; (4) risk-based capital test; (5) capital classifications and undercapitalized enterprises; (6) enforcement actions and penalties; (7) golden parachutes; and (8) reporting.

Sounds like the bailout bill doesn't it? Would have been nice if they had not blocked the legislation that would have fixed the problem and not stuck us with it?

I did not reply to it because I have not seen it -
I have not been on the news or TV today so am not aware of what you are talking about. Will, however, before I go to bed, find out what is going on so that I can discuss it later...
reply

poster says duh?  Exactly.  Overwrought rhetoric destroys the validity of any discussion.


 


In reply...

Let me just address a couple of points:


Science isn't a "numbers" game where if you line up 1000 scientists on your side and I line up 1500 on my side, I win.  The history of science is rife with examples of the majority of scientists being wrong.  It might even be argued that at the moment any scientific discovery is made, the person who makes the discovery is, DE facto, a minority of one.   The majority of scientists once thought the world was flat, that the sun revolved around the earth, and that human disease was caused by invisible gases or by imbalance of the "four elements", and scoffed at the notion of "germs". If we left science up to a vote and counted heads to determine what is true, we'd have never moved one inch beyond the stone age.


The real problem, though, is that it really doesn't take much information about the methods used by the "global warmists" (my term) for even a layman to recognize that they are far from conclusive, and in many cases their methods are highly questionable.  And since there is an enormous cost to all of us (or, enormous flow of money to the "warmists") to do battle with this "problem" - if it is one - it only makes sense to get the science right rather than jumping off the deep end and starting a lot of things in process that might very well be entirely unnecessary.  Before we get the villagers all up in arms with torches and pitchforks, let's bother to find out if there really is a dragon in the cave.  So far, I'm afraid that the best we can say is that all we have is rumors and that no one has actually seen the dragon.


Let's not conflate global warming with alternative energy, though.  Although there is some connection, they are really separate issues.  If there is global warming, it seems now that some scientists think that worm flatulence causes more warming than hydrocarbons, so on that basis we should be attacking worms, not fossil fuels. 


Certainly, we should be pursuing every realistic form of alternative energy, but for one simple reason which you have correctly stated:  There is only so much fossil fuel of any kind in the ground.  We're going to run out of it.  This means that even if oil were clean and cheap as water, we must seek alternatives. 


However, oil isn't as cheap as water, and we don't own most of it even if it were, so the second reason we must seek alternatives is that we cannot continue to send $billions to foreign countries, many of whom don't like us very much and who are using our own dollars to finance the operations of our enemies.  It's simply madness to finance our own destruction.


 


 


 


 


Not even worth a reply -

Above was in reply to Hmmm (nm)
z
Thanks for your reply, Lurker

Thought I'd switch back over to this board.


Thanks for your reply to my question about your leaving Florida.  It sounds like a big transition in many ways, both geographically and emotionally.  I had inquired because I have similar thoughts myself and so far I keep moving farther and farther north and away from civilization.   Anyway, good luck and it would be good to hear when you're settled in. 


Thanks for your reply. I was thinking that the more...
moderate and even conservative leaning Independents might be swayed. Enough of them swayed to vote him back in as an Independent as a senator. I realize that is only one state, but there are others of like mind across the country who are pretty sick of the Democratic Party and the Republican Party...and McCain is more moderate, as is Lieberman...not hard right or hard left. That is very appealing to some people right now who are tired of the infighting and the extremes. I think Lieberman is VERY astute and realizes this.

As to the war in Iraq...both Clinton and Obama have said they would not be for immediate withdrawal of troops. The only candidate I have heard who said they would end the war immediately is Ron Paul. Which, I know is an unpopular stance you. The only thing I can say at this point is that for whatever reason we went...which we cannot change...we are there. And you can't unscramble eggs. We need to do the best fix we can in the shortest time possible, and Petraeus is doing that. Amazing strides have been made. Hopefully they will continue and we are able to get most of our forces out of there in a year or two. Which is better than the 5-6 years they used to talk about. And to me, that is an amazing stride.

At any rate, thanks for your answer. I won't hold my breath to hear you, DW, being criticized as a one-issue voter (you said that you would not vote for McCain because of his stand on the war). lol.

Have a great day!
short reply
So the success in Iraq apparently means nothing.  Wow.
See me reply to your post.
nm
Typical lib reply
The name-calling.  You wear it so well.... Classy, honey.
How many times are you going to reply
about my name, does it bother you this much? You really got too much time on your hands!
LOL! Good reply!!!
*
Just got a generic reply
lol go figure.
I got generic reply, too... sm
When I sent him an email of condolence on his grandmother's passing.  Might not have been the proper place to send such an email, but I certainly didn't think I would get an email that told me where to go for answers about the "false and malicious emails" that were circulating about him.  It even gave me a helpful link that revealed the "hidden attacks" of the McCain campaign.  Very appropriate...NOT! 
Thank you - just read your reply
Oh my gosh - I get so exacerbated trying to explain the same thing over and over. I can't understand what is so difficult to understand. Even my children who are in the 6th grade understand the situation and why it is important to defend and obey the Constitution. They said they like Obama(they think he's cute), but they said "Mom just cos your cute doesn't mean you can break the law". I guess the country is getting pretty bad when 6th graders understand right from wrong but adults do not.

P.S. - I don't have the patience to write anything more than what I do on this site.
Should be posted in reply to jm.
x
You should know a stupid reply...
How can Clinton by accused of something that didn't happen on his watch? I don't think being psychic is a job requirement to be president. Though I could be wrong...
What a witless reply. sm
You post, you're asking for replies. Don't post, you won't get replies. I can have my 5-year-old neighbor explain it to you in simple terms if you'd like.
Reply to ok, Trying to figure this out...

 


... I know we don't want to digress, but please stop blaming the fact that we have to resort to these measures on the current administration


Here’s what a lot of us believe:  We don't 'have' to print or borrow money to buy our way out of this mess.  That is the thing most people will not acknowledge.  The mortgage crisis and  the housing ‘bubble’ were caused by government meddling with Fannie/Freddie loan standards. That sent the whole house of cards tumbling and the cascade of threatened failures that resulted.  More government meddling will not fix this.  You cannot shore up a house of cards.  It's still cards.  It should have been allowed to fall and be rebuilt, even if that meant starting from the ground up.  Sucks to be us.


Foolish people who bought too much house for their means must be allowed to lose them.  Bad companies have to be allowed to fail.  Bad politicians with worse ideas also should to be allowed to fail; I'm doing my part not to get in their way.


I don't think anyone can name three things government does as efficiently and/or cheaply as private industry.  Now government will part owners in AIG, banks, and other failing concerns.  Now government wants to control  health care?  And all of this - plus much more - was put in an 1100-page document nobody who voted on it could even read?


Even though this is all mostly a done deal, I still cannot go along with the can't-we-all-get-along; wait-and-see crowd.  Of course we’ll all just have to ‘sweat it out’ now, what choice?  This is so reminiscent of the FDR New Deal 70 years ago that I cannot believe we have learned nothing from history.  What am I saying?  Of course I can believe it.  We’re still idiots! 


Tell me if any of this sounds familiar:


‘We seldom know six weeks in advance, what we are going to do.’  ‘It is common sense, to take a method and try it: if it fails, admit it frankly and try another.  But above all, try something.’  FDR 


Some of the things he tried:


National Recovery Act (fixed prices and wages).  Forced smaller companies out of business, since lower wages and prices where the only way they could compete with big companies. 


A law in Washington, DC, mandating a minimum monthly wage for women (only), resulting in women losing their jobs to men who were willing to work for much less than that guaranteed wage. 


Agricultural Adjustment Act (subsidized farms by taking acreage out of production and fixed prices).  Designed to curb overproduction and support prices.  In reality production rose because farmers used their cash subsidies to buy fertilizer, and they had taken their worst acreage out of production anyway.  They switched to the crops whose prices were guaranteed, hence, even more overproduction. 


Works Progress Administration (to provide employment and improve infrastructure).  Turned into a giant political patronage system to reward supporters with ‘shovel-leaning’ jobs and to punish detractors.  To get most such jobs, you had to declare your political party, ‘vote right’ and ‘tithe’ to the D party.


Emergency Relief Act (made available to governors to assist the needy in their states).  Since it was supported by huge tax increases, it all but shut off voluntary charitable contributions that traditionally went to the needy.


Excise taxes arbitrarily levied on a few luxury items of the rich such as yachts, furs and jewelry, but also on cars, gasoline, radios, cosmetics, cameras, bank checks, long-distance phone calls and movie tickets used by lower-income groups.


Tariffs on imported goods, which caused other countries to retaliate by taxing or not buying our goods and damaged our export business.


Top income tax bracket for the too-rich (only) 79%  and the IRS was used as a weapon to harass and punish the wealthy, as well as critics of New Deal policies.  Roosevelt was incensed that the wealthy (though he was born to wealth)  used tax loopholes such as charitable deductions and business losses to legally avoid taxes, so he instructed the IRS and Congress to close them.  Meanwhile, FDR himself used such loopholes to deduct the value of materials he donated for his own future presidential library.  He took business losses and farm losses on his personal tax returns. 


Roosevelt was one of those silver-spoon guys, subsidized by someone else’s money (his mother’s) his entire life.  He failed repeatedly in businesses financed by family money.  He had a solid record of picking losers; he thought the airplane was a fad.  He had a lackluster academic career.  Never held a ‘real’ job. His only talents were his personality and charisma.  


Yes, FDR inherited the beginnings of the Great Depression from Herbert Hoover in 1933,  but  Roosevelt’s repeated ‘try something’ efforts to fix it kept it going until World War II. 


Any of this starting to sound familiar?  We’ve been at this exact pivotal point before and we are blowing it again.  Elected another snake oil salesman.  Way to go.


Reply....and some advice. sm
First, the advice. You never want to put yourself out on a limb like this by crowing over a one-day move in the stock market.

Now, the reply. It's odd to me that the very people who have discounted the idea that there is any "meaning" to stock market movements when the market is crashing would turn around and now propose that we garner some significance from the fact that it has recently had a rally.

Second, there are always rallies during bear markets, just like there are always down moves in bull markets. No market moves straight up or straight down.

Third, I see the markets are back down today.

Fourth, the problems that Obama's budget and bank bailout proposals will cause won't show up today or tomorrow. They'll be a long time coming...but mark my words, they're coming.

Fifth, a small percentage uptick in existing home sales from its previous disastrous levels means virtually nothing.

Sixth, it's very common these days to see even so-called sophisticated financial analysts wax poetic every time there is the slightest bit of "positive" news. They are, after all, in the investment industry and their jobs and incomes depend - even more so than yours or mine - on "things getting better". It's been rather funny, although pathetic, to watch them throughout this whole mess, grasping at every straw. You should pay less attention to them - they have an axe to grind.

It is possible that in time Obama will grow into this job. Every American has reason to hope so. To date, however, he has shown very little leadership, has stumbled badly on both the domestic and world diplomatic stage, and has shown himself to be impulsive and rather inept. So far, the American people aren't sure whether they have a man or a boy (and please, no "PC" comments) in the White House.

In my personal opinion, the President of this country is actually Nancy Pelosi, and Obama is little more than her obedient puppet.
ok, please read my reply

to you closer to the top of this board this date.  I personally am blaming him for using this situation as a power grab to insert himself into control over every aspect of our lives.  Not like we don't have historical precident for all this, and how very badly it went.   


Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.  Benjamin Franklin


Reply to a Canadian

How long do you consider too long on wait times?  I have alot of friends in Canada that complain all the time about how long it takes them to get in for diagnostic testing.  An MRI of the knee = 6 months.  An abnormal mammogram, ultrasound took = 3 months.  And the stories go on and on.  I worked in QA for about 8-years on one of the largest HMO's here in the US.  One of our projects was a lesion tracking program for breast cancer.  Our acceptable time frame which we entitled "sleepless nights" was 48 hours from time of an abnormal mammogram until the pt. had an ultrasound.  I have worked in several imaging centers where an abnormality was found and additional tests were worked in that day.  From everything I have heard from many of my friends in Canada, is that just doesn't happen there.  A woman I know broke her leg skiing, and she spent 4 days on morphine before they could get it set, it was over a weekend and no ortho doc was available. 


This is what makes me say NO to the type of healthcare system, it reminds me of our county systems here where you go and wait and wait for treatment.


my reply was for watcher', not for you.
Don't you know how to use this board?
Your reply does not seem referable to my post.
What you cite as your concerns in your post does not correlate to what I talked about in my post.  Perhaps you are referring to some other posting.
just to say loved your reply...GREAT!

Then get in the mix and reply to Observers posts rather than
on the board, just as you have a right to post on the Conservative board.  Moderator
Do you even read the posts you reply to?

If so, are you sure you comprehend them?  You said, "I, personally, don't think it's the government's job to provide you a job you will love be it a manufacturing job or a higher level professional one."  No one said anything about the government providing you with a job.  She was talking about keeping a job you already have.  A job that you may well love and want to do until the day you retire.


We worry about immigrants coming into our country and taking our jobs, and everyone in the government seems at least slightly concerned about this, yet the government has no problem off-shoring countless American jobs to other countries.  Gee, what's wrong with that picture?  It seems that our middle class is slipping into lower class, and the rich keep getting richer.  Each man for himself seems to be the American way as of late, and some of us, many of us liberals, want to change that mentality.  We need to look out for our working class.


Since I post in reply to other posts...
it would appear I am not the only one who has time to spend on a computer, though that has somehow escaped your attention. Monica moniker...cute. LOL.
It was a reply to the post directly above it...
"In his private career, seems like he did a lot of work for the poor and several civil rights cases. I guess that would make some conservatives a little afraid of him :-)"

It is the taunt I was replying to. Democrats have not in the past had a stellar reputation for championing the civil rights of African Americans and I pointed that out. And they became interested in the poor African American AFTER they finally got the right to vote. Coincidence?

Again, respectfully...replying the the taunt.
Your reply is equally mature.
nm
In reply to the concerns you raised.
My first reaction when reading your post was one of curiosity. I was an IC during the latter Clinton years and I do not recall paying 40% of my earnings to tax. What I remember was an aggregate tax payment composed of income tax, social security tax and self-employment tax, which essentially represented a burden I shouldered as an IC that compensated for the lack of employer contribution to SS, Medicare and FICA. To my knowledge, this tax structure has not changed since then for ICs. I also remember paying my taxes quarterly, and being responsible for calculating enough tax not only to cover my required amounts, but also to pay in extra each time if I wanted to generate a return at the end of the year. I made a decision NOT to be an independent contractor because I was a single parent with a mortgage. The self-employment levy felt like double tax to me as compared to what I had been accustomed to as an employee and, most definitely the total percentage of tax burden as an IC was greater than that of a full employee status.

On checking my returns from those years (which I still keep in the house) I find the total tax burden I had for all the components of my tax liability amounted to 27%. I am wondering if you did not get a return back then because you did not contribute more than the minimum rate during the course of the year and that later on, your contributions did allow you to have a return. Also, to account for the lower rate during Bush years, did your family situation change between Clinton years and Bush years, did you get married, have children, add an earned income tax credit deduction, add dependents, start itemizing your taxes. All these changes would account for a lower percentage rate of your tax liability, thus allowing for a return.

I am also wondering why you would look back instead of forward when assessing the issue of whether or not you will be "taxed more." Have you read Obama's tax plan? If not, please go to this link and take a look. http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/#tax-relief
Essentially this is what you will find (please excuse the format challenges of cut and paste).
Provide Middle Class Americans Tax Relief
Obama will cut income taxes by $1,000 for working families to offset the payroll tax they pay.
• Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Obama will restore fairness to the tax code and provide 150 million workers the tax relief they need. Obama will create a new "Making Work Pay" tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family. The "Making Work Pay" tax credit will completely eliminate income taxes for 10 million Americans.
• Eliminate Income Taxes for Seniors Making Less than $50,000: Barack Obama will eliminate all income taxation of seniors making less than $50,000 per year. This proposal will eliminate income taxes for 7 million seniors and provide these seniors with an average savings of $1,400 each year. Under the Obama plan, 27 million American seniors will also not need to file an income tax return.
• Simplify Tax Filings for Middle Class Americans: Obama will dramatically simplify tax filings so that millions of Americans will be able to do their taxes in less than five minutes. Obama will ensure that the IRS uses the information it already gets from banks and employers to give taxpayers the option of pre-filled tax forms to verify, sign and return. Experts estimate that the Obama proposal will save Americans up to 200 million total hours of work and aggravation and up to $2 billion in tax preparer fees.

It also might be worthwhile to check out the plan on the economy here
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/
Scroll down to At a Glance and browse the links of interest to you.

Here's the link for healthcare
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/
Again, scroll down to At a Glance and select links of interest.

I have provided Obama website links because you expressed doubts about democratic policy. McCain's website also should have similar information available on these issues as well for your comparison. After reviewing the information (if you were not already familiar with it), ask yourself where the information is coming from that is making you fearful that your taxes will be raised. I would really be interested in any response you may feel inclined to post in this regard. On a personal note, I will not be trusting McCain with the economy or with handling my HARD EARNED tax money. I do NOT want one more single penny to be used to fund the war, bankroll Israel's apartheid and nuclear weapons arsenal, prop up our struggling corporations or trickle up into the pockets of the richest among us in the form of continued Bush tax cuts to the rich, which McCain has openly stated he will continue if elected.
Reply to pub challenge to show O's

This is posted in response to pub spin that would assert SP is better qualified to lead the country because of O's lack of experience.  Of special note are the numerous foreign relations committee diplomatic initiatives listed below.  Of course, I would be interested in any comparable experience SP may have that the pubs can produce.  I have saved this post and will be using it in reply to any similar assertions made by pubs in the future whenever I encounter them.  Hope format is not too seedy. 


 


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Senate_career_of_Barack_Obama


In Illinois senate O Worked to get BIPARTISAN support on legislation on:


1.       Ethics reform.


2.       Health care reform.


3.       Sponsored bills for earned income tax credits for low-income workers.


4.       Provisions for $100 million in tax cuts to families.


5.       Provisions for early childhood education. 


6.       Welfare reform. 


7.       Childcare subsidies. 


8.       Funding for churches and community groups. 


9.       Chairman of the Health and Human Services Committee. 


10.    Instituted requirement for transparent videotaped police interrogations of suspects in capitol cases after a number of death row inmates were found innocent. 


11.    Measures against racial profiling.


12.    Campaign finance reform. 


13.    Restrictions on lobbyists activities.


 


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_career_of_Barack_Obama


In US Senate:


1.       Senate Committee (SC) on Foreign Relations.


2.       SC on Health.


3.       SC on Health.


4.       SC on Labor and Pensions.


5.       SC on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.


6.       SC on Veterans' Affairs.


7.       Member of Congressional Black Caucus.


8.       Chairman of the Subcommitte on European Affairs.


9.       Border security and Immigration reform.  Cosponsor "Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act introduced by JM. 


10.    Added 3 amendments to the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act.


11.    Supported Secure Fence Act for security improvements along US-Mexico border.


12.    Cosponsored Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006.  


13.    Introduced expansions to Cooperative Threat Reduction Program to secure and dismantle weapons of mass destruction and their associated infrastructure in former Soviet Union states.


14.    Sponsor of Democratic Republic of Congo Relief, Security and Democracy Promotion Act, signed by Bush, to restore basic services like clinics and schools, train a professional, integrated and accountable police force and military, and otherwise support the Congolese in protecting their human rights and rebuilding their nation.


15.    As member of Foreign Relations Committee, he made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East and Africa.  His 2005 trip to Russia, Ukraine and Azerbaijan focus on strategy planning for the control of world's supply of conventional weapons, biological weapons and WMDs and defense against potential terrorist attacks. 


16.    January 2006, met with US military in Kuwait and Iraq.  Visited Jordan, Israel and Palestinian territories.   Asserted preconditions that US will never recognize legitimacy of Hamas leadership until they renounce elimination of Israel. 


17.    August 2006, official trip to South Africa, Kenya, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Chad where he made televised appearance addressing ethnic rivalries and corruption in Kenya.


18.    Worked on Honest Leadership and Open Government Act, signed into law, to eliminate gifts of travel on corporate jets by lobbyists to members of Congress and require disclosure of bundled campaign contributions. 


19.    Cosponsored bill to criminalize deceptive practices in federal elections to include fraudulent flyers and automated phone calls.


20.    Cosponsored climate change bill to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by two-thirds by 2050.  


21.    Promoted liquefied coal production of gas and diesel.


22.    Introduced Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007 to cap troop levels as prelude to phased troop withdrawal and removal of all combat brigades.


23.    Cosponsored amendment to Defense Authorization Act safeguarding personality disorder military discharges.


24.    Sponsored Iran Sanctions Enabling Act in support of divestment of state pensions funds from Iran's oil and gas industry. 


25.    Introduced legislation to reduce risks of nuclear terrorism., provisions of which were added as amendments to the State-Foreign Operations appropriations bill.  


26.    Sponsored a Senate amendment to the State Children's Health Insurance program providing one-year job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries, which passed both houses of Congress with bipartisan support but was ultimately vetoed by fearless George. 


Reply to pub claim that O's accomplishments

When a senator sponsor a bill, he originates the concept, surveys the landscape for support or lack thereof, identifies targets for persuasion, and works for bipartisan consensus.  This would involve extensive research on the content of the bill, assessment of benefits versus cost, knowledge of past voting records of constituents and fashioning persuasive arguments using pros and cons, according to who his individual target is and where he or she is coming from.  He determines constitutionality, legality and any possible conflict of interests.  He authors the bill.  He introduces the bill, debates the bill in the chambers, takes and answers criticism, compromises, rewrites and so forth until passage is achieved.  He then turns around and goes through much the same process to promote the bill in the house.  Then he holds his breath and hopes the president from his opposition party does not wipe out all his hard work with the stroke of a veto pen.  When he cosponsors a bill, he does much the same thing with a partner or partners. 


 


The accomplishments I listed under the state experience section actually were Obama's initiatives.  The US senate list does not just reflect legislation.  It also demonstrates varied committee membership, which reflects a completely different type of experience, much along the lines of study groups and research focused on strategy building of national and internation consequence.   


 


Two final observations.  Every single item listed under O's experience indicates the issues he takes most seriously and aligns consistently with the platform he now proposes on a national level in the presidential campaign.  Thus, this addresses the trust issue so often raised by his detractors.  O obviously has been a quick study, or he would not have been able to successfully seize the nomination of his party. 


 


I do not understand how SP's so-called executive experiences trumps this record.  In fact, my question would be where then DID she get her consensus-building experience from if she was so totally in charge of people she expected to simply fall in line.  Lastly, I am still wondering exactly how SP's record is comparable in this regard...or in words of one syllable...how does she stack up?


I posted under the wrong reply.

Posted by "There is no truth in the assertion...." one down.


"I do not agree with the absolute pronouncement that you are a full-blown psychopath. However, I do see you consistently have tendencies to take a certain measure of pleasure in following aggressive impulses when it comes to validating your obvious adversion to the President-Elect, illustrated by the current post in question. You have been doing this for quite some time, so it would be safe to assume that could be an integral part of who you are. You do seem to gain a great deal of satisfaction out of promoting some of the more far-fetched right-wingnut fantasies out there about O, and you seem to have no particular conscience about doing it. No sarcasm intended. This is the way you come across to some of us."


Thank you for your reply - good post
It's been awhile since I've been able to get back and read the response. I feel the same exact way. A woman's health issues to include pregnancy and everything else about her health should not be an issue in politics. Makes me wonder, what other part of our personal health are they going to make into political issues.

Good response on the job question too. I think I worded my original question wrong but this answered it. Thanks
Very good reply, Kaydie...

From hearing John McCain's POW days, it shows me a courageous man who was beaten repeatedly and severely and continued to encourage his fellow POWs as well as refused to be sent home ahead of other men who had been there longer.  What does this say about him?  It tells me that he is a he11 of a bigger man than most.  He has been through the worst of times and survived.  He put others before him.  That is what his story means to me.  So when he says country first.....I believe him.  He has put country first.  Tell me when Obama has put country first!  Show me the changes he has made in the senate that have benefited this country.  Show me when he has stood up to his own party.  Show me the executive decisions he has made. 


To me....Obama is so lacking it isn't even funny.  He lacks in character, integrity, and experience.  His association with certain people and his racist tendencies....that right there is enough for me to say NO TO OBAMA!  His campaign slogan of change is great at at time like this.  Obama is the bringer of false hope. 


McCain & Palin ང 


Reply posted above this by accident.
x
Still can't come up with an intelligent reply to the refute?
SRU
haha reply to my own message
i did NOT see her imply is what i meant to say.
I posted your reply above by mistake....
the "You don't have to look" post.
just had to comment on what a great reply this was
and quite funny!
Reply and a link enclosed
There is so much wrong going on and sometimes it just feels like you want to explode (or implode). Can someone actually give names of some people in politics that actually are working for the good of the people and the country? There maybe a handful, but to me for the most part they are all working for themselves. They automatically vote themselves in pay raises behind closed doors after dark when nobody is watching. Then the politicians that I always believed were working for the good of the country and people of the country I hear they vote for giving themselves a pay raise. But it's just not that issue. It's all the other decisions they are making back there. I just don't know who to trust/believe anymore. There are a lot of politicians who are doing deals, hoarding money in off-shore accounts, living in mansions and not paying anything, not paying taxes, people being pitted against each other solely because of what political party they belong to, organizations doing whatever they want to do (which is why I'm not posting anything bad towards anyone on this board - never know who is reading). But over the past few years I have lost just about all faith in the government doing anything for the good of the country. You look at who's being picked for cabinet members, SoS, etc. People now don't need any experience to get into positions of power and deal with other countries. It's very scary, and we're becoming the laughing stock of the world (you can say it started with GW, but it's continuing on) - other countries don't respect us no matter who is the Grand Pubah. I get emails saying sign this petition and send it on to your congressman or so-n-so to let them know your not supporting this idea or that idea, but you know what...it doesn't matter. They could get every single citizen in this country to sign any petition and they don't care. They are going to do whatever they want to. The teabag thing...maybe it makes the people feel good, makes you feel like you've got a word, but they ignore it. I think they just throw them in the garbage and they continue to do whatever they want and don't care if the people are happy about it or not.

Also, I believe the country is run by much bigger people than what we are seeing. I have nothing against the O, or Present Bush, President Clinton, Carter, Reagan, etc, etc, because they are all just puppets for the people who run the country. They aren't actually the ones making the decisions, they are just the ones delivering the speeches.

As for Ted Kennedy. Did not realize he's still in office. Thought he was recuperating and living out the rest of his life (however much longer it will be) at his home. Didn't realize he is still making decisions. I really have no opinion on the Chapaquidik thing. Not enough knowlege about that, but there are a lot of older politicians you could say the same for (senile). There should be an age limit and term limit someone can remain in politics. Two terms. That's it. Then they have to go to the public sector. No more politics for them. Doesn't surprise me about the pension thing. Pelosi said to an incoming politician once. "If your not a millionaire now you will be one by the time you leave here". Well isn't that just special.

I'm just fed up with all politics/politicians, talk shows that whine about issues but offer no solutions. Sick of hearing Hannity say to his guests about how he's all set financially but such-n-such a decision will affect the "little people". If I hear how well off Hannity, O'Reilly, Olbermann or any of those talk shows hosts are doing I'd like to just spit.

I wish things were different, but here I am the only one who works in this family - husband has not been able to find a job in years, and now there's no hope of a future for him. I wish I could retire and do something else. Never in my life did I ever think I'd have to work and support us until the day I die. Now with the illegals being able to draw off the social security system I doubt very much there will be anything for me when I hit retirement age (15 more years to go) but yet I still have to pay 12% of my income into it.

Anyway...don't mean to ramble on here. Just tired of all the crooked deals going on in the news, then at the same time crime is going up and it seems like it's getting closer and closer to the day when people are going to have the right taken away to protect themselves in their own homes. It really makes me think we're getting closer and closer to some of the movies I've watched (Children of Men, and a good one is Equilibrium). Who knows what the future will bring, but it just doesn't look good and I'm ready to unplug from it all.

I take things as they come. I may not like them, but the world is changing and know we have to adapt or else we'll be prisoners in our own minds. I look back and think of the changes that have occurred in our grandparents lifetimes (telephone, computers, etc), and if they didn't adapt things would not have come as far as they have. I just hope things turn around and we see some growth for the country. Otherwise I look forward to 2012 (end of the Mayan calendar).

Here's a link I thought you might like. I wish we had this guy in our country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lW6Y4tBXs

Reply - more liberal fail
Actually Cavuto didn't say Fox News. He said Fox.

Murdock and Fox have been in the business since 1985.

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2009/04/tea-party-more-liberal-fail.html