Do you even read the posts you reply to?

If so, are you sure you comprehend them?  You said, "I, personally, don't think it's the government's job to provide you a job you will love be it a manufacturing job or a higher level professional one."  No one said anything about the government providing you with a job.  She was talking about keeping a job you already have.  A job that you may well love and want to do until the day you retire.

We worry about immigrants coming into our country and taking our jobs, and everyone in the government seems at least slightly concerned about this, yet the government has no problem off-shoring countless American jobs to other countries.  Gee, what's wrong with that picture?  It seems that our middle class is slipping into lower class, and the rich keep getting richer.  Each man for himself seems to be the American way as of late, and some of us, many of us liberals, want to change that mentality.  We need to look out for our working class.

• I'm a little offended - DW
  • No one owes you a job, especially one tailor made for you - Americangirl
    • Yes, but the government shouldn't be - that's asinine
    • Do you even read the posts you reply to? - kam
    • I don't think the government owes me a job - DW
  • okay I wasn't done yet... - DW
    • Overseas equals cheap labor - liberal democrat
      • Any business, no matter what it is, is consumer driven... - Observer
      • Great posts DW and lib democrat! - kam
        • Both on 60 minutes and Letterman - vrt
          • And what did he say was the cause of it? - Observer
        • Yes, great posts! It's very concerning sm - whorn
          • And do you know why the cost of living for the middle class has gone down...? - Observer
          • Yes! You made my point exactly - DW
            • Okay, I can agree with pressure to stop offshoring... - Observer

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Surely you would agree that when accused of something we should have a chance for rebuttal? And that our rebuttal would surely include proof/evidence of why we took a particular stand?  Would you deny the liberal board that right?  SOME of us may be tolerant (or as Nan put it, "sissies") but some of us are very capable of speaking up for ourselves.

I have read Nan on this board (and others as well) for almost two years so I think I have a pretty fair grasp of her opinion and style of posting.

to you closer to the top of this board this date.  I personally am blaming him for using this situation as a power grab to insert himself into control over every aspect of our lives.  Not like we don't have historical precident for all this, and how very badly it went.   

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.  Benjamin Franklin

you start sermonizing?

You said:

I think that you have made a crucial error in believing that WWII and Vietnam are at all similar.  WWII and the US Civil War were also very different wars.  There are even major differences between Iraq and Vietnam and the Korean War although some historians would also find greater similarities in these three wars.  You may rewrite the history of wars as well as US history to fit your agenda of political hatred, but you will never be able to present a convincing argument if you have completely questionable sources and facts to back it up.

If you will please read my post, I was alluding to the differences in the mindset of 18-year-olds at the time of the draft in the 60's and at the time of the draft in the 40's.  It was an opinion, one I believe is justified in looking at the correlation between mindset of young people then and of young people now.  When morals decay, and the character weakens.  That is my opinion and frankly I don't care whether you share it or not.  I was NOT comparing the two wars.  try reading it AGAIN before lecturing me.

You negate most historical records, which I admit often have some aspects of questionable validity, and you seem to re-create a fictionalized account to accommodate your rather far-out-there belief system based in hatred of the left. 

Please explain what in my post led you to say that...that I fictionalized something for my rather far-out-there belief.  And again, how many times do I have to say it...I have no hatred for the left.  A lot of sympathy, but no hatred.

You rearrange and fictionalize facts and history to make your point.  You provide spurious sources for your facts (I could probably find sources that prove that the earth is populated by aliens from Mars if I looked hard enough).

What the heck are you talking about?  Spurious sources?  Did I post any sources?  I was answering a question and then giving an opinion.  I rearrange facts and fictionalize?  What did I fictionalize?

I also notice on the conservative board constant condemnation of liberals, leftists as a whole.

No, not leftists as a whole.  I based my opinion of leftists who speak out and speak *for the left*, the poster children of the left, on these boards, blogs, in print, on TV, etc.  I form my opinion of the left on what I hear coming out of their mouths, mostly, and here from their fingers as it were.  That is plenty.  The rest is icing.

 We are characterized as stupid, immoral, crazy, unpatriotic, love the terrorists, cowards, angry, on and on. 

Well, to me abortion IS immoral.  To me cloning embryos just to kill them IS immoral.  To me oppressing people with social programs instead of helping them grow into productive citizens is immoral.  If that is you, then I think you are immoral. 

I never called anyone crazy.  So far you are the only one I have ever seen call anyone mentally ill....when you compared me to your mother.

I believe patriotism is supporting the military when they are engaged in a war.  If you do not do that, then I believe you are unpatriotic.  You will notice I said I believe.  I did not say all Republicans believe, all conservatives believe....I, myself, believe.

I never said you or anyone else loves the terrorists.  I said when you get out and protest against the war and carry nasty signs about the commander in chief when we are engaged in a war you are aiding the enemy.  I, me, myself, speaking only for ME, believe that you are.  I did not say you love them, and if you cannot figure out how they would use that video as propaganda....not my fault.  I still have my opinion.  You, if you are carrying those signs or support those who do carry those signs, are aiding the enemy.  It should not be done in war time when we have soldiers fighting.  Again, MY opinion.

Cowards....well, to me it is cowardly to call yourself a *peace* movement and be unwilling to take that movement to the real enemies of peace....you know, the ones who have been attacking us for years now, with the big hit on 9-11.  The people who are really interested in snuffing you, and I mean literally.  The people who are really interested in making this a Muslim nation.  Those people.  Talk to THEM about peace.  Because if you change THEIR minds, your problem is over, sis.

Angry...yes, I believe you as an individual are angry.  The left as a whole...sure, I believe they are angry.  They act angry.  They talk angry.  They can't even get along among themselves (kind of like radical Muslims seem to be) ---and before you go there, I am not comparing the left to radical Muslims...just the fact that they cannot get along in their own ranks.  The Republicans seem to be having the same problem, though not to as large a degree....yet. 

You are condemning at least 50 percent of the citizens of this country with those adjectives.

I am not *condemning* anyone.  You escalate each post with needless inflammatory rhetoric.  I am merely stating an opinion.  And yes, when I see that some 41% of Democrats are not sure they want the surge of troops to succeed, 51% say right up front they DONT want the surge of troops to succeed, and the rest are undecided, my opinion of those folks is not very high, and yes I think they are unpatriotic.  If you can say bold faced that you do not want your troops to succeed in battle .... yep, that is about as UNpatriotic as you can get...my opinion, my own, me, myself. 

Doesn't seem at all patriotic to me. 

Of course not.  I would not expect that it would.

 Your group also points out nuts (like those who would spit on veterans) as representing the liberal mindset.

*Your group.*  There you go, doing the same thing you accuse me of...demonizing an entire group.

 I realize I am not going to be able to convince you of the great disservice you do to yourself with a narrow and naive mindset like that. 

Oh here comes the compassionate I know so much more than you do let me lead you along speech.  I swear it must be in some leftist handout because I have heard those same words from others.  And I mean the EXACT same words.  Your mindset is not only narrow, it consists of the opinions of others.  Leftists seem to be incapable of forming an individual opinion and instead repeat what I have read in a million articles, full of buzz words, yada yada.  Do you know what you yourself honestly believe as an individual?  In your own words?

 I know many Republicans and with the exception of possibly one, none are as condemning and narrow-minded as the posts I see on your board. 

You are paranoid.  I do not see any condemning.  All I see is rebuttal with opinions that differ from yours.  Thank Heavens for that! 

While I have participated in bashing and see bashing on the liberal board, it rarely occurs in a generalized fashion toward all right-wingers. 

That is true.  You have participated in bashing.  You are, in my opinion, the worst offender.  But again...MY opinion.  Oh come onnnnn.....*your group,* *you guys*...gimme a break.  You are into the group bashing as much as anyone.  The reason I refer to *the left* as a group is because you all say the same things.  Nearly the exact same things.  If I could find any individuals, it would be different.  I can't.

As I said, that would be a very naive assumption and the root of bigotry and prejudice and ultimately hatred is in the grouping of all peoples as being of one mindset.....

I would not group you all together if you were not all saying exactly the same things?  And I am so glad that you are so all-knowing that you have laid down the edict that  the root of all bigotry and prejudice and ultimately hatred is the grouping of all peoples as being of one mindset....geez, which article did THAT come from?  But, you know, you might try flying that one at Bin Laden.  See if it will bring HIM around, because he has kinda put the West into one big group he HATES. 

Lurker is the only one that I can honestly say does not fall into direct lockstep.

think of Muslims, blacks in the south pre-Civil Rights, Native Americans in the 1800s (and even now). 

So easy to ridicule and oppress when we don't see folks as individuals.  Actually the comments I see made about the liberal mindset are so far removed from the reality of most liberals in the United States it verges on the ridiculous, well no, it doesn't verge on the ridiculous, it IS ridiculous.

Okay....let me see.  You said so easy to ridicule and oppress when we don't see folks as individuals.  Well, if you were all saying something different perhaps that would be easier to find those individuals.    Then you say *the comments I see about the liberal mindset*....hmmm...that does not sound individual to me at all.   How, dear Teddy, do you expect us to know the *reality of most liberals* when all we hear, see, read, are saying almost exactly the same thing? 

Well, I feel so privileged that you took my simple little post as a stepping stone to rant.  Please do not get me started on which board is the worst on bashing.  I have seen comments on both sides, but the liberal board has been far more virulent and tasteless (I feel like I have been defecated upon, sit your butt in your chair).  I have seen far worse than that.  The reason we do not see that now is that they probably have been banned.   And so should they be. On EITHER board. There is no need for belitting and name calling, and you are a master at it.  Your lecturing, condescending, holier-than-thou attitude wears real thin.   We all read it, we all recognize it, including other liberal posters who do not want to join in on your name-calling, condescending manner.    If you are so smart, and you have it all right, why don't you take it somewhere it will do some good?  Take the antiwar rhetoric, all the noble ideas about we are all the same, and it is wrong to group everybody together because that is where hate comes from, yada yada.  Why not take that message to the real enemy?  Quit preaching and sermonizing to conservatives and talk to your real enemies, the terrorists.  Except...oh...how silly of me.  You don't view them as a threat.  Or, more truthfully I am sure...you like your head where it is on your shoulders.   

As far as your further condemnation of Democrats as far as blacks and their allegiances, I believe most informed political science folks would be the first to admit that the party doctrines have evolved over time.  What probably counts most is the current party belief system.  Just some common sense.

*Party doctrine evolve over time.*  Now that is funny.  The only reason it evolved is because Republicans forced it to evolve.  Check the votes on civil rights legislation as close as the 60's, Teddy.  Democrats voted AGAINST, in great numbers.  Had it not been for the Republicans outvoting them, no civil rights legislation would have passed.  The filibustered it for days.  All that has evolved is now Democrats choose to enslave in a different way....through social programs that do not encourage people to do any better and stay tethered to the government for their existence.  Whenever you have 3 generations of a family on welfare, something is VERY wrong with that system.  Again, Teddy....pay attention now...that is my OPINION.

Rebuttal to sermon ended.

you will see that I think the blame should go all around.  This isn't just dems versus reps.  They are both to blame for this.  I am just sick and tired of turning on the news and hearing nothing but ridicule of McCain when Obama had his whole hand in the cookie jar. 

Even if McCain was for deregulation....he still stood up and said something about this before it got to this point.  That should account for something. 

you would know that I included pubs in my criticism as well.  I personally think both parties should be spending their own money and not relying on lobbyists money for the spa retreat, as the pubs did, and not using taxpayer money, like the dems did.  I couldn't care less if this was planned since last years retreat.  Doesn't mean they couldn't foot the bill themselves or cancel it. 

Here I am sitting at home hoping and praying that my job as an MT isn't shipped over to India leaving me jobless.  I'm hoping and praying that my husband's dealership can survive this even though sales keep dropping.  My husband and I have paid our bills.  We have an incredibly high credit score.  We have worked for what we have.  We don't live off of the government.  Yet we are scared sh!tless and hurting because banks were made to give risky loans to people who couldn't pay for them.  We are being forced to pay for irresponsible people and you know when it is all said and done....you know who will benefit from this......the same scum that couldn't afford those loans and ran up credit cards.  They will benefit because the government will bail THEM OUT.  You think they are going to help me and my husband........HECK NO!  They will take everything we have worked for.

So I guess you can say I'm a tad bit bitter about government as a whole.  I think both parties need to be scrutinized but since the dems are currently running the show wouldn't it just make sense that criticism would be more focused on them because they hold the power right now. I don't agree with the far left and I don't agree with the far right either.  I think there are nut cases on both sides. 

I am just sick and tired of lazy people who were irresponsible keep getting help while the harding working people who are suffering get absolutely nothing.  Giving assistance and money to these lazy people is like giving alcohol to an alcoholic going through withdrawal.  Yes, it will stop the tremors and the alcoholic will be content but he will need more alcohol or he will start to shake again.  Once you keep giving these scum money....you have to keep giving it.  This is what I don't understand about government.  Sometimes helping people isn't helping.....it is enabling them to mooch and continue to be lazy. 

We are all suffering because of irresponsible people and government enabling them to get risky loans, BTW, thank ole Billy boy for that one.

bus, it would probably be on purpose just to get away from you.

I'm sure you think you **know** for a fact everything that your religion has taught you.  My opinion is that religion is based on faith, though, not fact.  That's why it's called faith. Just because my religious beliefs may not exactly match yours doesn't mean that mine are right or yours are wrong.  They're just different. 

My faith is very personal to me, and I would never try to force my beliefs on someone else by claiming I **know** the truth when what I believe is based on faith and not fact.  On the other hand, I resent people who tell me I'm going to hell unless I convert and adhere to their specific religion because they hold the exclusive keys to heaven.  I find that kind of behavior to be obnoxious, intrusive and insulting.

President Bush has thrown more money at poverty than Clinton, and I do not dispute the fact that Clinton went a long way in reducing poverty.  Workfare is one of the best programs to come along in a long time, and one thing Clinton did right, however, it needs to be to be expanded.

Poverty is not solely a lack of financial means for many people (not everyone), but poverty in this country seems to stem from moral poverty in many cases.

Don't know if I read them all, but I did read the one where you asked the person to go to the conservative board if they had anything to say about you.  Of course, we all know how that person would have been ganged up on by you and your friends if he/she would have done so. 

I have also read posts by you and your friends on the conservative board that are dedicated to bashing liberal posters on this board, sometimes using their initials, sometimes referring to them by their posts and sometimes coming right out with their monikers.  They are all usually cleverly hidden in the text of the message and not in the subject line. 

You certainly do this and have done it long before the person posting here last night did.

Don't you find it hypocritical to post on this board, complaining because someone did the same thing you routinely do?  Nobody came back on the conservative board to challenge you when you did it.  Instead, they just ignored your posts, respected your freedom of speech and left you alone.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.  :-(

I saw the posts for myself, no one "ran" to me. Note that all boards were reviewed for inappropriate posts.

As far as who can accomplish all these goals -- a journey begins with a single step. Barack is willing to start the journey. McCain stubbornly refuses to change course.   If he does not live up to his hopes - another election in 4 years. 

Experience -- time and time again current events have proven Barack's thoughtfulness and judgment have proven true.  Even the current administration is following the course for a time-table that Barack proposed so long ago.

I do not see Barack as a savior -- I see a fine man with a vision for our country that matches my own.

Throw that hood in the wash, its getting dingy.  12 year olds, we know what you are saying there.

I made no "moral judgment" on SP's premarital pregnancy - merely pointing out the historical precedent she set.

poster says duh?  Exactly.  Overwrought rhetoric destroys the validity of any discussion.