What about the thousands that died in WWII to
Posted By: Backwards typist on 2009-02-11
In Reply to: Bush lied and thousands died! - sm
keep us free from the nazi regime/communism? What about the Korean War? They died, too, to keep communism from spreading.
Viet Nam was another story. They died and people here were so outspoken about it (just like it is happening now), and that it brought the moral of the tropps down. When our president pulled them out so quick, all he-- broke out. The Viet Cong and Cambodia armies slaughtered thousands.
Those fighting now mostly support and believe in what they are doing. If the troops are pulled out as quick as O wants, the same thing may happen there. This is why they are trying to get Iraq's military and police set up so another Viet Nam will not happen. Support our troops.
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And my grandfather died in WWII, defending the country where you live now in freedom (nm)
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Bush lied and thousands died!
Reaping the rewards.
WWII and Vietnam
I think that you have made a crucial error in believing that WWII and Vietnam are at all similar. WWII and the US Civil War were also very different wars. There are even major differences between Iraq and Vietnam and the Korean War although some historians would also find greater similarities in these three wars. You may rewrite the history of wars as well as US history to fit your agenda of political hatred, but you will never be able to present a convincing argument if you have completely questionable sources and facts to back it up.
You negate most historical records, which I admit often have some aspects of questionable validity, and you seem to re-create a fictionalized account to accommodate your rather far-out-there belief system based in hatred of the left. You rearrange and fictionalize facts and history to make your point. You provide spurious sources for your facts (I could probably find sources that prove that the earth is populated by aliens from Mars if I looked hard enough).
I also notice on the conservative board constant condemnation of liberals, leftists as a whole. We are characterized as stupid, immoral, crazy, unpatriotic, love the terrorists, cowards, angry, on and on. You are condemning at least 50 percent of the citizens of this country with those adjectives. Doesn't seem at all patriotic to me. Your group also points out nuts (like those who would spit on veterans) as representing the liberal mindset. I realize I am not going to be able to convince you of the great disservice you do to yourself with a narrow and naive mindset like that. I know many Republicans and with the exception of possibly one, none are as condemning and narrow-minded as the posts I see on your board. Thank heavens for that. While I have participated in bashing and see bashing on the liberal board, it rarely occurs in a generalized fashion toward all right-wingers. As I said, that would be a very naive assumption and the root of bigotry and prejudice and ultimately hatred is in the grouping of all peoples as being of one mindset.....think of Muslims, blacks in the south pre-Civil Rights, Native Americans in the 1800s (and even now). So easy to ridicule and oppress when we don't see folks as individuals. Actually the comments I see made about the liberal mindset are so far removed from the reality of most liberals in the United States it verges on the ridiculous, well no, it doesn't verge on the ridiculous, it IS ridiculous.
As far as your further condemnation of Democrats as far as blacks and their allegiances, I believe most informed political science folks would be the first to admit that the party doctrines have evolved over time. What probably counts most is the current party belief system. Just some common sense.
End of sermon.
Dissent during WWII - A history lesson the right forgot....sm
Dissent during WWII - A history lesson the right forgot.
Posted by ChrisSal on Wednesday June 28, 2006 at 3:04 pm MST [ Send Story to Friend ]
One of the right’s favorite things to do is to compare the Iraq invasion to WWII and Saddam Hussein to Adolph Hitler. They claim that anyone who opposes the war is an appeaser, a terrorist sympathizer, or a traitor. This rhetoric is absolutely laughable not only because it is a huge stretch, but also because Republicans have obviously forgotten their own history.
Following the rejection of the League of Nations treaty in 1919, America developed a strong isolationist foreign policy. This was, perhaps, in response to the expansionist policies put in place by Teddy Roosevelt and the abject horror experienced in WWI. The citizenry wanted nothing more to do with sending its men to fight in foreign conflicts.
However, in 1935 Italy invaded Abyssina, which provided the first real test of America’s isolationist foreign policy. Congress passed the Neutrality Act, applying a mandatory ban on the shipment of arms from the U.S. to any combatant nation. FDR vehemently opposed the bill, but signed it under intense Congressional and public pressure. Two years later, Japan invaded China starting the Sino-Japanese war. As China was our ally and public opinion was favorable, FDR found ways to circumvent the Neutrality Act and assist China. Another two years later Germany invaded Czechoslovakia and began their conquest of Europe.
In May 1940 Germany overran the low countries, which left Britain open to invasion. By the end of 1940, Britain was financially ruined and the isolationist support was beginning to rapidly erode. 1941 brought about the Lend-Lease act and a more aggressive US posture in the Atlantic. Some claim, with some validity, that FDR provoked both Germany, with the US Naval presence in the Atlantic, and Japan, with support to China and crippling embargoes, particularly the oil embargo, into war. For the purpose of this discussion, that is neither here nor there.
As it became more apparent that the US involvement in WWII was going to deepen, a group named ‘America First’ organized to put pressure on FDR to keep America out of the war. “America First” garnered the support of people from across all shades of the political spectrum, but it was the GOP, who hated FDR and everything he did, that started the ball rolling. Twelve days after Pearl Harbor, Sen. Taft (R-OH) gave a speech to the Executive Club in Chicago. He railed against US intervention into WWII and spoke on the need for dissent, particularly during wartime.
As a matter of general principle, I believe there can be no doubt that criticism in time of war is essential to the maintenance of any kind of democratic government ... too many people desire to suppress criticism simply because they think that it will give some comfort to the enemy to know that there is such criticism. If that comfort makes the enemy feel better for a few moments, they are welcome to it as far as I am concerned, because the maintenance of the right of criticism in the long run will do the country maintaining it a great deal more good than it will do the enemy, and will prevent mistakes which might otherwise occur. - Sen. Taft (R-OH) December 19, 1942
So, the next time a rabid right winger claims that opposition to the war is unpatriotic and treasonous, remind them that as Germany rolled through Europe, Japan rolled through the Pacific, and before the fires of Pearl Harbor were extinguished it was conservative Republicans that took the lead in opposing FDR and the American entry into WWII.
Like the Nuernberg Trial after WWII or the Internat'al criminalThe Hague Court..sm
what good does it make to show the torture picture to the public? None.
What about the thousands of men and women
who lost their lives in that "mistake" that Bush made. Maybe that should be in that post too. I bet their families feel like they had plenty of courage.
There were thousands of voters........ sm
who voted in this election who were not informed or educated on the issues or the candidates. I don't see much of a difference, do you?
tens of thousands dead
and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi's and 1,744+ brave American soldiers are dead. So..lets see here..Saddam was responsible for killing thousands and Bush is responsible for killing tens of thousands.hmmm..hey, are Bush and Saddam brothers separated at birth..two fools with a thirst for blood? Seems like they are both war criminals. Saddam thumbs his nose at the world community and does what he wants..Bush thumbs his nose at the world community, the International Court of Justice and Geneva Convention and does what he wants..hmmm..they gotta be brothers, well, at least blood brothers.
seems to me thousands spoke this weekend
Seems to me most of the country takes Cindy Sheehan seriously and are behind her 100%. This weekends protests in DC, CA, NY, Ohio and other states prove it..When you look at the anti war protests compared to the pro war protests, tells you what the majority of the country wants..ending of the Iraq war.
The ten's of thousands not covered by media
Perhaps that's why they declared open season on reporters who tried to get the truth out, especially about the heavy-handed police gestapo tactics, all too common in a post 9/11 Patriot Act world (where misdemeanors are ratcheted up to charges of terrorism), riddled with politics of fear and being promoted inside the convention hall.
unless you are talking thousands of friends,
I don't think your sample is statistically significant. Obama has led in the polls except for one week for the entire season. Once the Palin myth was unmasked, Obama bounced right back up. Never in the history of the any country anywhere has someone sustained such a lengthy lead and then went on to lose (if you don't count the last election's fraud).
No doubt there will be thousands more excuses
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I defend anyone who tried to save thousands of
nm
Thousands may have been dead at the hands of Saddam anyway, what with
x
torture,-if waterboarding can save thousands of
nm
The book of Revelations was written thousands of years ago.
Why do you think it pertains in any way to our time and not to the time in which it was written? Why do people think it is some sort of prophecy for their particular lifetime? Does no one study the history of the bible anymore? I am so saddened and appalled by the lack of theological and historical education in churches. If people don't even understand the documents of their own faiths,then there is never any hope for understand people of another faith.
Thousands show up to protest at UN today urging end to war Iraq.
Reuters: By Gertrude Chavez-Dreyfuss
NEW YORK, Sept 19 (Reuters) - Thousands of protesters including former American soldiers rallied outside U.N. headquarters on Tuesday, urging the U.S. government to end the war in Iraq and bring home the troops.
Nearby, about 200 other protesters demonstrated against the presence of the Iranian president, others called for human rights in Myanmar, and just a handful demonstrated to press claims the United States orchestrated the Sept. 11 attacks.
While world leaders gathered at the U.N. General Assembly inside, about 2,000 anti-Iraq war protesters chanted Peace can work, no more war half an hour before U.S. President George W. Bush spoke.
This war has drained the economy and has cost a lot of lives, said Claire Thompson, a nurse and union leader. We're calling on our leaders to end this unsustainable war and just bring the troops back home.
There have been 2,681 U.S. military deaths since the Iraq war began in March 2003, according to Pentagon figures, and 147,000 U.S. troops are serving there. At least tens of thousands of Iraqis also have died in the war.
People in Iraq also want to end the war. We want our country back, said Raed Jarrar, an Iraqi-American who moved to the United States last year.
Iranian-Americans rallied outside the U.N. headquarters, protesting the presence of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad at the General Assembly.
I am outraged by the presence of Iran at the U.N. general assembly. I think Ahmadinejad's actions and statements are pushing Iran to war, said Shirin Narunan, a leader of the Ad Hoc Committee to Stop Iran's Nuclear Weapons.
Iran, saying its nuclear program is for civilian purposes, has declined to suspend its uranium enrichment program despite U.N. Security Council demands to do so.
Burmese pro-democracy activists demanded the dissolution of the country's pro-junta organization, the Union Solidarity and Development Association, and the release of opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi who has been in prison since 1990.
A group of protesters claimed that the U.S. government orchestrated the attacks on Sept. 11. Les Jamison, an event coordinator of NY 911 Truth, said the 9/11 tragedy was scripted by the U.S. government to regain military might.
So the thousands getting laid off weekly are to blame for losing their homes???? nm
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Obama Plan Jeopardizes Thousands of Coal Jobs/his words
![](http://images.afa.net/onnnewsalert.jpg") |
Obama Plan Jeopardizes Thousands of Coal Jobs
Fred Jackson - OneNewsNow.com - 11/3/2008 7:35:00 AM
The nation's coal industry is in shock today with word that Barack Obama plans to put such severe penalties on coal-fired power plants that it will bankrupt them. A coalition of business leaders says such a move would jeopardize the jobs of hundreds of thousands of people who work in the coal industry.
Senator Obama's plan for putting severe financial penalties on coal-fired power plants has been made public on a YouTube video which contains audio of comments he made in San Francisco in January 2008.
"What I've said is that we would put a cap-and-trade system in place that is as aggressive, if not more aggressive, than anybody else's out there," the Democratic presidential candidate said. "I was the first to call for a hundred-percent auction on the cap-and-trade system, which means that every unit of carbon or greenhouse gases that was emitted would be charged to the polluter. That will create a market in which whatever technologies are out there that are being presented, whatever power plants that are being built, that they would have to meet the rigors of that market and the ratcheted-down caps that are imposed every year.
"So if somebody wants to build a coal power plant, they can," Obama concluded. "It's just that it will bankrupt them because they're going to be charged a huge sum for all that greeenhouse gas that's being emitted."
A press release from the Western Business Roundtable is calling on politicians of all stripes to denounce such a plan, and encouraging voters to hold those politicans accountable for whether they support the coal industry.
Below is the actual audio - click to listen.
!["](http://images.afa.net/onnd_obamacoal.jpg")
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It wasn't campaign donations that paid for thousands of dollars in kids' travel
nm
Yes, he died
He rose again and He lives today in the hearts of those who are His faithful. No one is forcing Him on you, that is your free choice...which He gives to you.
Tell me how many people have died
in Iraq compared to Vietnam? We have lost 1,700 soldiers in Iraq compared to what, nearly 100,000 or more in Vietnam. Give us a break. Nobody believed it before the 2004 election. Why do you all keep spouting the same unsubtantiated crap over and over? It really makes you all look stupid. I'm beginning to wonder if the left has any original thoughts. You all sound like clones of each other. EVERY milestone for Iraq has been met thus far. We turned sovereignty over to the Iraqi's and they've had elections. They are re-building infrastructure at an alarming rate....Iraq is a success. The loser John Kerry put out a letter today stating that we needed to have definite goals in Iraq. Everytime John Kerry said we couldn't accomplish something in Iraq we did!! John Kerry doesn't know when to shut up and realize "he lost", but obviously thinks he's a contender for 2008...I almost feel sorry for the guy...almost.
Sure there are insurgents, but the damage they ar inflicting is minimal....and yes, there are Iraqi's who LOVE Americans, believe it or not. I live near a military base, and several soliders have told me how the Iraqi people cry when they leave.
You can believe all the crap the media is telling you, but your precious Downing Street Memo is not evidence of anything. Bush has not been proven to lie, period. You can say it all you want, but it doesn't make it true. The little fairy tales the left make up about Bush and then get their buddies in the media to echo are just that "fairy tales."
Some of them are in Iraq. And some of them have died. sm
The issue of illegal immigration has been around way long than Bush's term in office. While I do agree it is an even bigger problem with terrorism looming, this was something that should have been addressed long long ago.
Father died at age 70 nm
nm
It died once before, remember? And the once
(which the dear ol' boys in the 'Pub-Club' want to get rid of, remember?), Wall St. and the USA did even better than before. It collapsed because of a major flaw, and too much GREED. The same things we're faced with today. I can survive a Depression just fine. I'm an MT, and we're already experiencing one.
how dare you say that anyone died for no...
reason!!!? Saddam was a terrible mass murderer and needed to be taken care of. We should have never let it get this far. I am sure that the men and women who died did not think that it was for no reason.
And I am right there with you, my Mom is 90, my dad died last year, my mom........sm
after paying for her wonderful Part D in addition to her Medicare to cover them was left with a few hundreds of thousands of dollars for his care, like antibiotics, like respiratory therapy for his pneumonia which he acquired from the surgery, like weeks in the ICU and RICU.......my Dad's life savings gone in a heartbeat, literally. Yes, so much better!!!
What about the 3000 people who died on 9-11?
What about them? When is it big enough to fight over? Ever?
my grandmother until my grandfather died because...
My grandmother said they did not agree on politics and she would never vote for the same person he did, so therefore her vote would cancel his out and she felt like that was wrong because he was the head of the household!!! Can you believe - as soon as he died, she never missed voting again for who she wanted.
I'm a died-in-the-wool feminist, and have -
I can see through his reasons for picking a woman as Veep. But if things are allowed to continue on the downward spiral America's been on for the past 8 years, we're in big trouble.
In Obama, I see HOPE for middle class America.
In McCain,I see NO HOPE for us at all.
I knew an MT who did just that - died at her desk.
!
I think his dad died of a heart attack at 70? nm
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Obama has said his mom who died of ovarian
cancer greatly influenced his life. He said she was gentle, kind, and strong.
Barack's grandmother died
Stating our servicemen died for nothing.....
is misinterpreted. No one wants to lose one single troop. The war is senseless and our troops have to believe in what they are doing in order to survive. But, most could claim all wars are senseless. No, I did not know people were protesting our service people (the war, YES, but not our actual service members - head in the sand on that point). Ignorance, if they understood anything at all, they would understand that our troops are doing their jobs by following orders.
Try being happy that people died so you have a right to complain
*FOR WHAT??? So people halfway around the globe can have democracy? Please....*
That is about as selfish a statement I've heard as of late.
What if the soldiers had gotten *so tired* in World War I or II?
What if the revoluntary soldiers had gotten *so tired* in the Revoluntionary war?
Your world would be different today, that is, if you would have existed at all.
Even if you have family or friends in Iraq or Afghanistan right now your complaining and fussing about all the work they are doing is doing nothing to help them. Support them. Send them a letter or a care package. It would make a soldier's day, be it someone you know or someone you don't, and it would certainly brighten your mood in the process. You don't have to support the president or the war, but your frustrations can be turned around into producing something good for someone else.
Marine in Fahrenheit 9/11 has died in Iraq...sm
May he rest in peace.
DETROIT - A Marine and one-time recruiter who appeared in Michael Moore's documentary film Fahrenheit 9/11 has died in a roadside bombing in Iraq.
Staff Sgt. Raymond J. Plouhar, 30, died Monday of wounds suffered while conducting combat operations in Iraq's volatile Anbar province, the Defense Department said Tuesday.
Plouhar, who was stationed at Camp Pendleton, Calif., had taken four years off from active duty to serve as a recruiter in Flint after donating one of his kidneys to his uncle. He is seen in the 2004 film approaching prospective recruits in a mall parking lot.
It's better to get them when they're in ones and twos and work on them that way, he says in the film.
Although Plouhar willingly appeared in the movie, which is critical of the Bush administration's actions after Sept. 11, his father said Plouhar didn't realize it would criticize the war.
I'm proud that my son wanted to protect the freedom of this country whether we all agree with the war or not, he said.
Plouhar grew up in Lake Orion, about 30 miles north of Detroit.
He is survived by a wife and two children, ages 5 and 9. They live in Arizona.
Yep....the rights that the military have fought and died for...
over the years. You know, the might want to say thank you once nin awhile for that too...but that would take common courtesy. Too much to expect I guess. Take, take, take, but never say thank you for those who sacrificed for what is being taken...and taken...and taken FOR GRANTED.
"Who died and made you boss?"
OMG!! Toooooooooo funny! 
When you described the various religious beliefs of your family members, you illustrated very well why government and religion don't mix.
Whether I (or you) agree with their views, they still have the right to have those views. 
Rick James died in 2004
of a heart attack. That was too bad. I loved Superfreak.
Mexico has universal health...how many have died
from the swine flu?
Who died and made you the "free speech" police? sm
Who cares what you think of Sam's posts. You are free to read or not read. That is what debate is all about. And I use that term loosely in regards to some of posters on this board. Most of the posters have legitimate points of view. If you are that upset over what she posts, then feel free to disregard what she puts. You should be able to figure out what the message is about by reading what is under the thread and not having to open the thread.
If you don't agree with our consitutional right to freedom of speech, then you need to rethink your priorities. Nobody will ever agree with anybody else 100% on this board and in real life, and I wouldn't expect them to. That is what makes our world go around.
Don't like the posts?? Don't read or go to another board. I agree with Sam.
Bush's lies and people died for NO cause, NO reason!
That's the difference. We gave AL Queida and Taliban a gift they never thought they would receive when we invaded Iraq. They took out the guy who was keeping Iran as quiet as possible, not allowing them to enter their air space/borders. Now, Al Queida has a GREAT recruiting tool!! No, they couldn't have asked for more. And that's the DIFFERENCE!!!
of course he lied - but no one died - he had a young daughter to protect...
All men would lie - when, in fact, it was nobody's freakin' business........that was Hillary's problem
My dad died of lung ca. from 2nd-hand smoke. I hope
nm
My mom died of obesity-related diabetes. I hope we tax food out of
x
Bush lied and our brave patriotic soldiers died..PERIOD
Of course Bush lied about WMD and the threat of Iraq..He needed a reason to invade Iraq..If you would do some research you would find many papers that document meetings between Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle and others who devised a way to take over the Middle East in the 1990's..all they needed was a way to present it to the American people, as we would not allow our children to die for no reason. With 9/11, they got the reason and tried to tie up 9/11 with Iraq..I, frankly, think they also had a hand in 9/11..For any who poo poo this..I ask you to do some surfing on the Northwoods Operation..same kind of thing, only in the 1960's..Let a few CIA Hispanic/Cuban operatives invade a few curise ships on Floridas coast, kill a few Americans and we would definitely agree to invading Cuba and killing Casto..Our govt did not agree to it, however, 9/11 seems to me like an updated plan..there are many who also wonder was this an inside job..
FYI. Paul Newman died today. What a guy! A hero of mine. God Bless! nm
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Ovarian cancer. McCain's father died of a heart attach...sm
around 70 I think. FYI, Obama quit.
Yeah, lets talk about Billo the Clown and not the guy that died in US custody! (sm)
Wow...that's what I call total disregard for others.
He died a long, long time ago! (If he was ever
Don't force your beliefs on others. It further devalues your faith in the eyes of others.
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