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Y'know....all these derisive remarks about McCain's service...

Posted By: sam on 2008-08-29
In Reply to: My thoughts - me

and his years in a POW camp...with all due respect, if enduring unspeakable torture for 5 years for refusing to make propaganda tapes for the enemy, turning down a release offered to him because his father was a high ranking military officer because there were men there who had been there longer than he had and suffering even more because he turned it down...the unimaginable suffering, the honor, integrity and love for his country he showed...separated from loved ones, family, friends and country for 5 long years...to be boiled down to a political phrase "lying in a POW camp for 5 years does not make you qualified to run a country." I say it does, in spades. THAT is character. THAT is integrity. THAT is patriotism.


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Community service and CIVIL service - not the same thing nm
x
It takes one to 'know' one, doesn't it?
x
How about your derisive comments to anything Christian?
Yours IS the most hateful voice on here. Bar none.

Remarks we can all do without

I pity you.


Nice cut and paste job.


You are not witty.


These are not your own words.


I feel really sorry for you.


I will pray for you.


You are so funny - NOT.


You are a (republican/democrat) clone.


You take your talking points right from the (democrat/republican) party play book.


You're a dope because you watch Fox.


You're a jerk because you watch MSNBC.


Beck and Limbaugh are gods.


Olbermann and Matthews are gods.


Yeah, well BUSH....Yeah, well CLINTON [these guys are not president anymore.]


Some remarks on your remarks --
I am not here to argue, but just to give my opinion. I basically am like gourdpainter, my vote was more against McCain/Palin (mostly just Palin) than for Obama.

There are some things you addressed that I dont agree with that Obama has done, but there are things he has done that I do agree with.

The deal with the cigarettes - I wholeheartedly agree with this. It does not make tobacco or nicotine illegal, it only gives oversight into what they can say in their advertising, their packaging, and the way they can target young people. As a person who has had many family members die of tobacco-related diseases, I say anything to keep young people from starting and getting hooked is a plus.

Murdering late term babies - I do not think that Obama is advocating murdering babies. I think he is just pro-choice, as am I. I personally would never have an abortion, and I would be devastated if I found out my child did, but I believe that a woman should have the right to choose that herself.

The lobbyists - yes, I believe he backtracked on that, but I also believe that it is probably pretty hard to find someone in Washington who is not connected in some way and he did not realize how hard it would be at the time.

Now, for Michelle - I do not see where she did anything illegal in her job and if the hospital felt she was worth over 300,000 a year, then it was not illegal for her to get that pay. I do not think it was wrong for them to try to find ways to get patients out of the emergency rooms for nonemergency treatments either. They said that a lot of times people were sitting there waiting 24 hours or more to be treated for a sore throat - what was wrong with offering them a ride to another clinic or hospital, especially since many times they said there were clinics closer to the person's home than where they were at.

As for the part of misusing government funds, I have not read that, but will look it up later as I have time.

I will not go so far as GP and say I am ready to eat crow yet, because I feel like Obama has done a relatively good job - I just feel like there are things he could do better and things I am still waiting on him to do that he promised... and if he doesn't, my next vote will definitely be against him.
Lowery's remarks
I was brought up during the times when blacks were told to sit in the back of buses, when we had sit-ins at the counters at 5&10 cent stores downtown where I lived, where the water fountains were marked with white and colored, bathrooms the same, when I personally saw on television blacks being attacked by dogs, black kids not allowed to go to school with whites- I have been there. I am white, I do have ancestors who were slave owners and think nothing of his speech and yes, whites should embrace what is right. You are true about racism being on both sides, absolutely true but as an older white lady and born and raised in the south, I think his comments were straight on. Why get so offensive when a remark about whites made? I remember my father calling black folks "coloreds" and I would always ask, well what color are they?
I certainly don't defend the remarks, but they were taken out of context
Obviously, the example Bennett used of aborting every black child was a very poorly thought out example, but his remarks were also taken grossly out of context by the mainstream media.  He went on say it would be a morally reprehensible thing to do.  He was commenting on the idiots that said that crime or poverty was down since the legalizing of abortion.  He thinks abortion of any kind is wrong...he was turning their logic around on them.  He certainly does not think that every black baby should be aborted.  GRANTED, there are radical right wingers (the KKK, aryan nation etc.) would think this was a great idea, but they are radical and not the mainstream as Ms. Libby FALSELY stated...
Im thinking those outrageous remarks
of pat Robertson about Sharon's stroke might just put a kink in this deal..
Everybody makes stupid remarks
If your an Obama "fan" you are going to defend Obama and say McCain was wrong, and if your a McCain "fan" your going to defend what McCain says and say Obama was wrong. Clearly McCain singing what he wants to do to Iran to the tune of a Beach Boys song was clearly way out of line and the way he covered it up was saying it was a joke. which everyone knows was not a joke. I think the latest two statements (well one of them has not been made recently but the republicans keep bringing it up like she just said it yesterday). Michelle Obama's statement about being proud of her country for the first time. We ALL knew what she meant and anyone who didn't is not being truthful. Everyone knew exactly what she meant. I am a veteran. I was in the Army serving under Reagan. I couldn't have been any more proud of my country back then and wanted to give my time to serve and make a difference. I loved my country. What's happened to it since I am not at all proud of. Politicians are crooked, self-serving, lyers (could think of lots of other things to say about them but I will stop there). With the leaders we have had since Reagan (every one of them) makes me ashamed. To see the greed of corporate american, people like Ken Lay, people like the guy who threw his wife a 40th birthday party that cost $2.1 million (he took the funds out of his company never paying for anything himself), how about the guy who spent $6,000 for a shower curtain for his apartment in Manhattan and took the funds from his business to pay for it. Those are only a fraction of the most "insane" things of the corrupt business americans (insane is the only word I can think of). John Edwards words are true - there are two American's and the rich and greedy sure don't want to live like the rest of us do. Sure its nice they have all the money they can do whatever they want with it, but where do you think they are getting their money from.

On the other hand the two America's I think about are the one's who want to live together as one nation, and the other who to this day are still bigots. Who can't see beyond the color of someone's skin. I am truly ashamed to be an American when we have people like that still living in this country. People who believe that politics and our president should only be white. Then again you have the religious side to America and that's where I am ashamed to be an American there too. Too many wars are being fought over religion in other countries and we have the same thing here. Pure hatred for others who are not in "their club". So I (and 99% of other americans) knew exactly what Michelle Obama was talking about and we agreed. Even Laura Bush came out and in an interview said she knew what Michelle Obama meant. But the republicans liked to turn it around and make it something it was not.

On the other hand what John McCain said about the cigarette incident was clearly a joke. Everyone knows that cigarettes can kill you. I thought it was funny (and I used to smoke and my family members still smoke), but there you go with the democrats being no better than the republicans, pulling at any straws to try and make something out of nothing.

So I just say everyone makes stupid remarks now and then. You can't say one side is better than the other. People have to get over it and move on. Man I can't wait for the election to be over.
Shopping and wardrobe remarks
Pleeease... what do you think all these first ladies do and have done for years? You think they have been buying all those fancy gowns, etc.? I guarantee they have all been guilty of it.
These remarks from Iran and Russia may not
RE: Response to Obama's election by Iran: What I see here is an opening for dialog in the recognition that there is a capacity for improvement of ties, not exactly the "Death to America" sentiments expressed in the past, this despite Obama's statement directed at those who would tear the world down (we will defeat you). I also see several implied preconditions. After all, preconditions are a two-way street:

1. I would be curious to have Aghamohammadi expand on what he means by Bush style "confrontation" in other countries. He is the spokesperson for the National Security Council in Iran, has been involved with the EU, Britian, France and Germany as a nuclear arms negotiator and would be directly involved in any dialog with the US on the subject of nuclear arms nonproliferation. We hardly have a leg to stand in this arena with our current "do as I say, not as I do and never mind the nuclear stockpiles in Israel we financed" approach. My guess would be he is condemning military invasion and occupation, hardly a radical position for any sovereign nation to take. In his own capacity, he should understand the US has unfinished business in Afghanistan and possibly Pakistan, so it is impossible to know in the absence of dialog what alternatives to military invasion may be possible. It might be worth a look-see.
2. His implied request for the US to "concentrate on state matters" might be seen by some as a little progress, especially since, at the moment, we do not even have an embassy in Iran. This also implies a possible opening to US business interests there (which were abundant under the Shah), a staging ground for diplomacy and establishing an avenue for articulating US foreign policy within their borders.
3. Concentrating on removing the American people's concerns would imply a desire on his part to repair and improve Iran's image abroad.

A well thought out response to these implied preconditions would be a logical place for Obama to start when speculating on his own preconditions.

RE: Russia's recent behavior and rhetoric is worrisome on many levels to more than a few countries in the region. Cold war with Russia is in NOBODY'S interest, including Russia's I fail to see how turning our backs, isolating ourselves or ratcheting up bellicose rhetoric toward them would do anything except give them a green light to proceed. It's an ugly world out there and Obama will inevitably be taking either a direct or an indirect diplomatic role in addressing this issue. Russia has expressed that same expectation.

I agree with you and find humor in the remarks from Sudan. Anyway, wait and watch is all we can do at this point. It certainly beats the heck out of prognostications of failure or defeat.

inappropriate racial remarks
I agree Terri - that remark was extremely unappropriate and does not belong here, and unfortunately such a remark can be attributed to ignorance and hatred - which DEFINITELY DOES NOT BELONG HERE.
Derogatory remarks about the Kennedy family.
Oh you mean like the fact that Joseph Kennedy thought Hitler was a great man.  That fact?  Or that he made much of his money bootlegging.  That fact?  Or maybe that Ted killed a young woman and was never prosecuted. That fact?  Okay.  I got it now. 
To add, the GDA remarks, in context, were about the potential effects of
America not living up to its ideals. Context is everything.

Somewhere I saw a link to a site that had the actual sermons. I did not agree with everything he said, but I did agree with some of it. I will have to find that link. I think it was on another MT board...


Outrageous remarks made by Clinton

The DNC should dismiss H Clinton IMMEDIATELY due to her offensive and despicable comments about why she is staying in the race (the assasination of Bobby Kennedy - in other words the same could happen to Barack and so she should stay in in case that happens).  I think it is a disgrace for her to continue in the race at this point.  There is no doubt in my mind (and others I have talked with) that she wants something dreadful to happen to Barack, but to blatently come out and mention the assination of Bobby Kennedy when referring to Barack Obama is the lowest of all time lows.  Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE should call for her removal from the race.  This is why we CANNOT have her as VP.  If so Barack would have to constantly be looking over her shoulder.  If nobody believes that they need to read the history of the Clintons and what they have done to people in the past.  It's fact and people need to wake up!  This is not some "right-winged" thing against her - it happened and you can read about it.


Then she tries to cover up her shameful statements with lies.  The media is treating her too kindly by saying they are sure she didn't mean that she believes something would happen to him.  I just want to scream - Don't you believe it.  Look at the past!  Yet once again another reason I'm not voting for her. 


And what part of NO doesn't the Hillary supporters understand that she is NOT going to be VP on his ticket.  NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!  If, and I doubt that would happen, but if she was to be on the ticket I would not vote for him.  I will write in Ron Paul. 


She goes on and on about all the people she has that will vote for McCain and not Obama if she doesn't get on the ticket - yeah, well there are an equal number that if she is on the ticket will absolutely not vote for her and will either go for McCain or just not vote.  I was watching the exit polls after the election on Tuesday and they said that its about a 50/50 split with Hillary supporters and Barack supporters saying they will not vote for the other.  


There's no way in the world I want that XXXXX anywhere near the white house.  I am just outraged that she made such a dispicable, appalling, shameful and vile statement.  And I don't even want to hear any Hillary lovers try and defend this.  If there is a meaning of evil she fits the description to a T.  This just confirms she is XXXXX in my books.


Funny how it was okay when Hillary made remarks
You all laughed then. Yeah, real cute! We're asking for a link. Looks like all you want is for more posters to jump on the bandwagon and bash Palin.

Stick to issues, not personal feelings. Talk about Obama's issues (plans/programs) & McCain's issues (plans/programs). Not Palin.
Any kind of inflammatory insinuating remarks
for the sole purpose of misleading uneducated voters, in my eyes, is a deliberate act of desperation by a group that has absolutely no integrity at all.  Someone who is so vile as to suggest that Obama would endanger our troops if he is elected is less than human.  Barack Obama wants nothing more than to get our poor troops out of an endless, senseless situation.  If I wasn't so disgusted by that kind of mindless drivel that many of you are so willing to bow down to, I could almost feel sorry for you. 
I've only seen racist remarks from "anybody would have"
What on earth are you talkinga about? Only this one person made a racist comment. I've been reading this board for 2 days. The comment was made by "anybody would have" and called HARLEM DUMBELLS responsible for Obama's win.
sound bite from barbara bush's remarks

Here is the sound bite from Barbara Bush (it actually was on The Drudge Report!)


 


Here's the clip. Let them try and spin it however they want. Her callous words cannot be denied. These are heartless group of elitists:
http://www.drudgereport.com/bb.mp3


Read on down. Some posters below are defending Bennett's remarks...sm
so while you may feel they are wrong, which I think the white house was right to condemn them. BENNETT having served in two high positions, Secretary of education and over drugs under Bush Sr with these views, is worrisome.

I think his true *colors* are shining through.
If anyone is dividing America it is Bennett by his remarks and Bush
No, Im not trying to defend the democratic party or help with dividing this country.  Bennetts remarks have nothing to do with political parties, they have to do with insensitive hurtful hateful remarks made by him..I divide the black white community?  I beg your pardon, I have always associated with minorities in America.  I have lived side by side with them, dated them, married one of them and I will continue to care for the minorities..the white republican capitalists do not need my support nor do they deserve my support..
Teacher Probed Over Bush Remarks (see article)

I'm glad we didn't have any whiners in our political science class in high school.  Our teacher was one that provoked thought, and this was during Clinton's presidency.   I think that's the whole point as unless you are a Bush loyalist who thinks any comment not praising him is against the law. 


Teacher Probed Over Bush Remarks


AURORA, Colo., March 3, 2006










Overland High School students demonstrate March 2, 2006, in Aurora, Colo., to protest the school district's decision to put geography teacher Jay Bennish on administrative leave. (AP Photo/Aurora Daily Sun)


Fast Fact


A student recorded about 20 minutes of Bennish's class during a Feb. 1st discussion about President Bush's State of the Union speech and gave the recording to his father, who complained to the principal.





(CBS/AP) About 150 students at a suburban Denver high school walked out of class to protest a decision to put a teacher on administrative leave while the school investigates remarks he allegedly made in class about President Bush, including a comment that some people compare Mr. Bush to Adolf Hitler.

The protest came Thursday as administrators began investigating whether Overland High School teacher Jay Bennish violated a policy requiring balancing viewpoints in the classroom, Cherry Creek School District spokeswoman Tustin Amole said.

It was peaceful. The students yelled, but there was no fighting, Amole said. Most of them did return to class.

The suspension, says Amole, is a paid leave and is not a punitive situation... It just gives us the opportunity to talk to him, to talk to students.

Overland High student Stacy Caruso says Bennish hasn't done anything wrong. In the classroom, says Caruso, everyone has their right to speak their opinion and he's not forcing any opinions on anyone.

Another student, Derek Belloni, tells CBS News Station KCNC-TV reporter Rick Sallinger that Bennish is out of line.

He's supposed to be teaching geography, says Belloni, and yet he's pushing a liberal agenda trying to convert kids to his side of the spectrum.

A telephone number listed for Bennish, who has been teaching social studies and American history at Overland since 2000, had been disconnected.

Sophomore Sean Allen recorded about 20 minutes of Bennish's class during a Feb. 1 discussion about President Bush's State of the Union speech and gave the recording to his father, who complained to the principal, Amole said.

After listening to the tape, it's evident the comments in the class were inappropriate. There were not adequate opportunities for opposing points of view, she said.

The student who made the tape agrees.

I've been his class four weeks, says Allen, and I've never heard another side.

Deborah Fallin, spokeswoman for the Colorado Education Association, which represents about 37,000 union teachers, said it will not represent Bennish because he is not a member.

He's terribly upset about the fact that he can't teach right now, says David Lane, an attorney who is now representing Bennish. He's so upset and I am now his lawyer and we will be going to federal court.

©MMVI, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.


I agree, I was responding to some of the ugly remarks made below nm
x
my take on his service
Having served in the US Army I am very proud of my time served. I love talking about my time in the Army to people who will listen. I was in when the Falklands War happened (we were on standby and were undergoing training 24 hours/7 days to prepare for war - thankfully it did not happen), but it was a very very scary time for all around me. Also I was in during the Cold War and stationed very close to our enemies and that was also very scary, but to have actually gone through a "real" war I couldn't imagine. Especially being captured and tortured. I do know a lot of veterans that were in the wars and they do want to talk about it, but every veteran is different. My opinion is (and yes its only my opinion) that John McCain gave so much to this country. Yes it was a long time ago, but he suffered and that is not something you can easily forget, especially when he lives with it every day.

I'm not saying you, but I know a lot of people (especially a lot of posters here) who are supporting Obama and they get very upset that McCain brings up his service, but mainly because it shows he is a loyal patriot to the country and that is something that voters take very seriously and I believe it scares the Obama supporters.

What he did for his country is one of his proofs that he will stick up for the American people and he will fight for what is right for a better American and I believe that is why he keeps bringing it up. His voting record and time in the senate is his other proof.

Barack keeps changing his mind about everything, and I'm not saying he is not patriotic (nobody knows but he and his family), but when you don't wear a flag pin, or put your hand over your heart during the pledge of allegience and the national anthem, and removes the American Flag from his airplane it is one more reminder to us that Barack is not (I'm trying to find the right words without offending anyone or having it come out wrong). It's not unpatriotic, but its more like he doesn't care. Barack will take care of Barack (as he has been doing while accepting HUGE payouts from the latest FM/FM scandel). John McCain's time in the service is one of the things he is quite proud of and we all should honor and give him credit for his time and suffering he endured, but also let it be a reminder to us that he will not back out and run away when the going gets tough. He will stick it out and fight for us. He has already done so (you can look at his voting record). Unlike Obama who voted "present" I don't know how many times - lost track counting, therefore that leads me to believe he will not stick up for us and when the going gets tough I believe he will go with whoever puts money in his pocket. All you have to do is take a look at FM/FM and what he did.

So, I do know some Vietnam vets, and some World War II vets, and my dad was in the service during the Korean War, and they all want to talk about their service and what happened to them and what they went through. It was a very emotional time and they have every right to be proud of what they have done. His being a POW will have a lot of effect on people and I am one of them.
Thank you for your service. sm
I would vote for McCain if only out of support for our military men and women. Their votes should be counted first, yet only 30% of them will be counted at all (below poster should be feeling quite smug).

My son wants to join the Marines, and there are still people calling the Iraq war POINTLESS.

Looks like that white flag of surrender will be waving soon.
I like Stephen Colbert's attitude. He said concerning the remarks about colors: "That was th
Dr. Seuss book ever!"  We take ourselves so seriously.  Someone is always going to be offended. 
Should be the Secret Service! nm

CIA, Secret Service, etc.

Fact:  Obama wouldn't pass a background check for either of these organizations based on his associations alone (Wright, Ayers, Dohrn, etc.), yet somehow it's different to be President?


Don't waste your time arguing the point.  Look it up for yourselves and start paying attention to plain facts. 


As a side item, none of us would qualify based on associations like these.


According to the secret service
those statements weren't made at her meeting or whatever.

Personally I think it could have been some Obama supporters there doing it just to start things. It may have not been endorsed by the Obama campaign but it could happen. In the same sense, she could have not heard it being up on stage if her supporters were saying it. I was talking to my husband about this (he's been in a couple of bands) and you know how sometime the band members will talk with the audience? Well they have done that before and he said he could never figure out what the crowd was yelling back when they all got going and after awhile you just tune it out. Could have been the same deal. Now if she was up there saying "we need to kill the terrorist" I would have to question her...

The mud is being slung from both sides ya'll, gotta dig deep to find the truth. Stop believing what's on the surface.
According to the Secret Service...

who yelled "kill him" when Barack Obama's name was mentioned during a Sarah Palin rally?


 


After investigating the claim, the Secret Service concluded that no one actually heard the comment that was widely reported in the media


Thank you - Soon community service will
have to wear uniforms, and community service will turn into government. You can sugar coat it any way you want to - it's still FORCED! NOT an option. People do not have a choice. That is what we call a draft.
Community service

My "baby" is 37 years old.  I was just thinking..........he earned his private pilot's license at age 16.  MAYBE something like this is what Obama has in mind??


http://www.cap.gov/visitors/about/our_programs/cadet_programs.cfm


Who I feel bad for are the ones in the service now
I see so many stories that are just heart aching of the ones that are getting out of the service now. What do they have to come back to? There is nothing for them and it's awful. Our country has been in such disarray for so long, if I was in the service I would probably stay in. When I got out there was a thriving economy, but now??? Just a horrible situation for them.

I loved the service when I was in it (except getting called out of bed at 2 am in the middle of winter to pack up gear, load equipment on the trucks, then get trucked out to the boonies and stand guard for nothing. :-) Or getting called out of bed at 4 am payday fridays' to run 5 miles (I hated running) :-) But my experience overall I'm glad I did it and had the chance to be in the service at the time I was in. Now I think it's just very sad for the soldier's facing getting out of the service.
Thank you for your service!..and Boxer is an
nm
And I think you have to read all of my posts, I am responding to arrogant inflammatory remarks, whic
Substantiation, no real substance, and yet these people are CHOOSING to start devisive threads with divisive remarks on this board, even making statements that historically are 100% inaccurate. Yes, I pray for unity, compassion, wisdom, etc., but the rabid Republicans on this board (and I do not mean all Rep., just a few loud ones), want to harshy judge and condemnn the new administration without giving things a chance, what would you call that? What about the "hit and run" posts by right wingers who continue to stir the pot with incorrect, slanted, and inflammatory remarks here? Fair is fair, I try to back up each statement I make with historical facts, I try to see both points of view (wow, I have actually agreed with Republicans on certain subjects!), but this board is not about me, or you, it is about all of us trying to hash out all the many struggles this nation now has, and with restraint, intelligence, and care look at each problem and try to help fix it. America comes first. Period.
I am sure the Secret Service all love

piling into that Ford Focus everyday....lol  Methinks he probably has a limo or two, just not in his name...


Another thank you for your service. White flag is right..

what a nation of wimps we will become under this man. He'll be hiding behind Michelle's skirt.


My kids do community service
They have participated in numerous community service programs and projects, from collecting and packing items for the homeless to refurbishing parks. They ask to participate in them based on the listings in our newspaper. How very sad for your children that you would not allow them to feel invested in their community and would deny them the wonderful feeling that comes from helping others.
Both my daughers belong to a service
organization that does things in the community year round. In fact, my oldest daughter got a scholarship at a private college mainly because of her community service. I believe that community service teaches our young people to give something back to the community to help those less fortunate. It is a very good plan in my opinion.
The Secret Service is idiotic?

George's questionable military service...
flash back to Bill...who stated he hated the military and was too busy smoking pot (but not inhaling) to involve himself in military service. Puleezzeee. And we all know about Bill's...ahem...stones. Lent themselves to interns, black dresses and cigars (ewwwwww I mean REALLYYYYYY) instead of taking care of the country. Yup, there 's somethin' to be proud of!!! (not)
my kids are not joining a community service org
nm
my kids have done community service in the past
They have been in girlscouts for years. I have a big problem with it being mandatory. You people just have no clue. I'm bitter and stupid and selfish I guess for wanting freedom of choice for me and my children.
Secret service has said "yes" they do have these weapons...
I agree, the U.S. should nEVER stick their nose in any country's business as far as I am concerned; however, with Obama, it is no secret he has never stayed silent with the asian countries but has bowed his way through the muslim countries.... O lovers can think what they want but O is Muslim, will always be Muslim, and that's that....don't really care what anyone else thinks...his silence speaks volumes. O says he wants to "reach out" to the muslim world... well folks, this is his chance to just say something. He doesn't have to interfere and shouldn't.

Don't worry about your precious Obama..... he has no power whatsoever. He is nothing more than a little puppet being pulled by very elite people.... how else do you think he was elected? Sure as heck not because he's qualified!!!

Mousavi is like choosing between bad and evil.... either way, those folks are screwed!! BTW, we should NEVER be involved with the UN. We don't need other countries to decide for us what we should and should not do....

And when you're paying through your nose in Obama's taxes for your wonderful government controlled life, see how much you love him then! And, yes, he will screw you over too!
Clinton and C, King's memoral service today....
Four presidents were present at Coretta King's memorial service today. Carter was there and blasted Bush by recalling how the Kings were illegally wiretapped. Bush Sr. was there and actually seemed quite amiable and pleasant. Bush Jr. got up and read his usual canned ghost-written blah blah.

It was almost embarrassing though to see the difference in the way the mourners responded to Bush Jr and to Bill Clinton. The crowd greeted Clinton with resounding cheers and a standing ovation when he came into the church - no such greeting for Bush, only a polite clapping. When Clinton took his turn to speak - the only speaker of the Presidents by the way not to be reading a notepad or turning pages on the podium - he got a another standing ovation for his eulogy, which was delivered off the cuff, from the heart, and just seemed to hit a nerve with the audience like Bush Jr. has never been able to do.

I think it's clear - despite the smear jobs and the hypocritical railroading, the vast majority of America still loves Bill Clinton and in fact I think always has. Sure, he's not perfect and did some questionable things. But, his intelligence, charisma, ability to speak eloquently without teleprompters or earpieces, and just plain good empathy, diplomacy and people-sense, when compared side by side with Bush's obvious discomfort and absorption in his script pages, just really made clear how much we are lacking in the White House today - painfully clear.

The memorial service was great though, with a tone of worship and celebration rather than sadness. Goodbye to a truly great lady.
First President Bush Attends Lay's Memorial Service

I'm surprised Dubya didn't attend this since he recently told Larry King that Lay was such a *good guy.*


Friends remember Lay at memorial service





By KRISTEN HAYS, AP Business WriterWed Jul 12, 7:17 PM ET



Enron Corp. founder Kenneth Lay was a high-powered businessman, philanthropist and family man who didn't succumb to despair despite the scandal that destroyed his company and left him a vilified felon, friends and family members said at a memorial service Wednesday where mourners included former President George Bush.


Lay's 90-minute service drew some of the high-profile guests who were close to him before he was convicted in May of fraud and conspiracy for lying to investors and the public about the energy company's financial health. Enron collapsed in late 2001.


Neither the Bushes nor former Secretary of State James Baker III, Houston Astros owner Drayton McLane Jr. and noted heart surgeon Denton Cooley spoke. The Bushes sat directly behind Lay's wife, Linda.


Instead, Lay's family and friends sought to show a kinder view of him than had been seen publicly since the company's collapse. Some expressed bitterness over their — and Lay's — steadfast belief that he was wrongly convicted in one of the biggest corporate frauds in history.


I am angry because of the way he was treated in the last five years of his life, and I think I'll leave it there, leave it at that, said Lay's stepson, David Herrold, who attended much of the four-month trial.


I am glad he's not in a position anymore to be whipped by his enemy, Herrold said to the hundreds in attendance at Houston's First United Methodist Church, which Lay attended for 12 years.


His mother, Linda Lay, dabbed tears with a handkerchief.


Lay died of heart disease July 5 in Aspen, Colo., where he was vacationing with his wife. About 200 friends and family, including his co-defendant, former Enron chief executive Jeffrey Skilling, attended a small memorial service there on Sunday.


But Skilling decided not to attend Wednesday's service because of heavy media coverage, said his attorney, Daniel Petrocelli. His wife, former Enron corporate secretary Rebecca Carter, attended both services.


As guests entered the sanctuary, they passed a framed photo of a smiling Lay wearing a red Enron T-shirt, blue athletic shorts and gym shoes. Two large bouquets of sunflowers sat on either side of the pulpit, while two burning candles sat on each side of an open Bible in the center.


The Rev. Bill Lawson, prominent pastor of the African-American Wheeler Avenue Baptist Church in Houston, said the Lay he knew wasn't the target of late-night TV jokes or a pariah. Lawson called Lay a victim of a lynching and praised mourners for staying friends with him through the scandal.


The folks who don't like him have had their say. I'd like to have mine and I don't care what you think about it, he said, eliciting brief applause. Now his grandchildren won't ask, `Why is Papia in jail?' No more persecution. That is behind him, Lawson said.


Lawson evoked leaders who he said were vilified in life but vindicated by history, including the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., John F. Kennedy and our Lord Jesus Christ.


Minutes before Wednesday's service began, shrieks pierced the sanctuary as Lay friend and former Houston Mayor Bob Lanier, 81, collapsed in an aisle. Carter and Lawson comforted Lanier's distraught wife, Elyse, before paramedics whisked him to a hospital, where was in stable condition with an irregular heartbeat.


Lay and Skilling were the faces of Enron throughout the company's meteoric rise from a stodgy pipeline company to a powerhouse energy trader.


Their reputations shattered alongside the company as their images switched from business visionaries to perpetrators of fraud that fueled a spectacular crash that evaporated $60 billion in market value and left thousands jobless.


A jury convicted Lay of six counts of fraud and conspiracy and Skilling of 19 of 28 counts of fraud, conspiracy, insider trading and lying to auditors. Lay also was convicted of bank fraud and lying to banks in a separate, non-jury trial related to his personal banking.


Lay died awaiting their Oct. 23 sentencing, and his lawyers are expected to ask a judge to erase his conviction because his death left his case unfinished. Skilling still faces sentencing on that date and could be ordered to serve decades in prison.

Beau Herrold, another Lay stepson who manages the family's finances, read from a letter he had begun writing to U.S. District Judge Sim Lake that he intended to deliver before Lay's sentencing.

In the letter, he described Lay as a devoted husband, father, grandfather and brother who always found a way to make time for family. Lay is survived by his wife, children, two sisters and 12 grandchildren.

___

Associated Press photographers David Phillip and Pat Sullivan, viedographer Rich Matthews and writer Chris Duncan contributed to this report.





Copyright © 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.


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Secret Service to investigate hate speech
Now that campaign is a real class act.
Secret Service Shows Up At Texas Mom's Door...














Quote:
They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up.








Quote:
Last week, here in America, they came for Jessica Hughes, and I will not be silent. I will not turn away, hoping, in the end, they will not come for me.

Jessica Hughes of Lufkin, Texas, former Marine, mother of three, answered her cell phone in the car, coming home from the emergency room. Her 9-year-old had suffered a mild concussion, but was OK.

The caller was a female Obama volunteer who asked if Jessica would support Obama for president.

Jessica replied, "No, I don't support him. Your guy is a socialist who voted four times in the state Senate to let little babies die in hospital closets; I think you should find something better to do with your time." Then Jessica hung up.

The next day, a man and a woman in suits showed up at the door of her home, identifying themselves as members of the Secret Service.

The Secret Service agents stated that the Obama campaign had complained of a death threat. They had quoted Jessica as saying, "I will never support Obama, and he will wind up dead on a hospital floor."

Jessica's husband had heard Jessica's side of the original phone call and verified the actual quote. To which the female agent replied, "Oh? Well why would she (the Obama volunteer) make that up?"

Jessica replied that the Obama volunteer was probably unhappy about what Jessica had said about her candidate. The female agent then said "That's right, you were rude!"

The male agent then displayed a file with Jessica's full name prominently printed on it and asked her how she felt about Obama. At this point, the former Marine told the agent "in no uncertain terms" (as she later recounted) that this was America and that the last time she checked, she was allowed to think whatever she wanted without being questioned by the Secret Service. And was being "rude" a federal crime now too?

The agents then admitted they had no tape of the conversation, just the quote from the Obama campaign.

Responding to Jessica's questions, the agents would not identify themselves by name, nor reveal the name of the Obama volunteer who had made the complaint. The agents did indicate that Jessica was not in a court of law yet, and that they were trying to not embarrass her "by going to all her family and neighbors."

To these implied threats, Jessica invited the agents to speak to whomever they wanted, and stated she would happily go to court since she had done nothing wrong.

Jessica asked the agents, "Look, someone calls me unsolicited on my cell phone to ask me to support their candidate, and I can't tell them why I don't?"

The Secret Service left Jessica that day, but she could not get the "visit" out of her mind.


Source:http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=77825

oops - wherever I say Army I mean all branches of the military service
Not just the Army. The Marines, Air Force, Navy, everyone is included. Just wanted to clarify that.
they had to join a community service organization to graduate?
x
Sarah Palin blamed by the US Secret Service over
Sarah Palin's attacks on Barack Obama's patriotism provoked a spike in death threats against the future president, Secret Service agents revealed during the final weeks of the campaign.

The Republican vice presidential candidate attracted criticism for accusing Mr Obama of "palling around with terrorists", citing his association with the sixties radical William Ayers.

The attacks provoked a near lynch mob atmosphere at her rallies, with supporters yelling "terrorist" and "kill him" until the McCain campaign ordered her to tone down the rhetoric.

But it has now emerged that her demagogic tone may have unintentionally encouraged white supremacists to go even further.

The Secret Service warned the Obama family in mid October that they had seen a dramatic increase in the number of threats against the Democratic candidate, coinciding with Mrs Palin's attacks.