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oops - wherever I say Army I mean all branches of the military service

Posted By: Just me on 2008-10-30
In Reply to: For the soldiers - Just me

Not just the Army. The Marines, Air Force, Navy, everyone is included. Just wanted to clarify that.


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George's questionable military service...
flash back to Bill...who stated he hated the military and was too busy smoking pot (but not inhaling) to involve himself in military service. Puleezzeee. And we all know about Bill's...ahem...stones. Lent themselves to interns, black dresses and cigars (ewwwwww I mean REALLYYYYYY) instead of taking care of the country. Yup, there 's somethin' to be proud of!!! (not)
I would favor community service. We are talking about military (sm)
x
Community service and CIVIL service - not the same thing nm
x
You and what army?
.
You speak to an Army mom this way. Says a lot about you. nm

How is Army Mom sacrificing her son?
Do you really think people are that stupid?  Just like Casey Sheehan ENLISTED.  Army Mom's child ENLISTED too.   You feel the way you feel, but DON'T YOU DARE try to tell us how to feel.  DON'T YOU DARE tell a mother she's sacrificing her son or daughter.  Parent's don't hold that power.  It is completely up to the child  You don't hold the corner on how we should all feel and you will not preach to me and tell me how I should feel.
Army mom, you don't speak for all.
You have a right to voice your opinion and support whom you will. You do not have any more right than the next person to speak for all the troops. At the very moment you having your how DARE you moment, you yourself are attempting to speak for all of them. I know for a fact you are wrong in doing this because I read military message boards frequently and there is no one view represented on them. In fact the majority at this time are anti-Bush and anti-Iraq war. If you don't believe me go and read them yourself.

Isn't it time you stopped lecturing others for wanting to bring the military home from a mission they can't possibly win by any measure of the word and put your outrage to work where it will actually save lives? They can't win. I'm sorry. They could fight until 2020 and all they will do is die. They are not accomplishing anything. It is not their fault! It was the mission itself that was a losing proposition from the start and for that they can't be blamed, they are just doing their jobs as they were trained to do and for that we admire them. But they can't win. There is nothing TO win. There isn't any shame in that. We have bad leaders who did no planning, a bunch of war-avoiding chickenhawks. They are the ones you should be outraged against.

And don't hiss at me - I'm a veteran myself and I know a military snow-job when I see one. As our military deaths double, so does Halliburton stock. Our leaders and their rich friends have no reason to stop the killing and they have every reason to continue it. Our sons and daughters are the pawns in their money-making schemes and don't you think they know it? Most of them do. That doesn't stop them from performing their missions and it doesn't make them cowards simply because they see the game plan for what it is. They CAN'T protest the war. They are not in a position to do so. They rely on us to do it for them. Only we can bring them out of the hell hole. Our leaders are not going to do it unless we demand they do it in a unified voice they can't ignore. Demanding that the troops stay IN Iraq for an undefined mission without end in a war against a vague principle while war profiteers grow rich on their blood doesn't make any sense. THAT is what Cindy Sheehan is saying- not that America isn't worth fighting for like Sean Hannity loves to vomit every other sentence to the gullible and Viet Nam-shellshocked.

THE MISSION IS UNWINNABLE. It's the mission that is not worthwhile, not the troops themselves. Why waste more lives for no purpose? Sunnis want to kill Shiites and you care - why? They have been at it for 700 years or so. We won't change that whether we leave today or five years from now. Wake up. Look at it realistically. Every day we remain Cheney's friends get richer and more mothers lose their loved ones. Come on. Why do you support that? Why would you support the agenda of chickenhawk cowards with all its stinking profiteering undertones more than you support your family member's chance to live life? And why are you angry at those who want to save your son or daughter's life, at those who feel his chance at life is far more important than any contractor's bottom line or egotistical leader's plan to strut on a stage of war glory? Because that really makes no sense. I'm a mother too. I know you want your soldier home safe in one piece regardless of his political views. So why do you fight so hard against those who want exactly the same thing?

They are doing that at the Salvation Army
too. Firing people if they arent religious enough or if they wont rat on other employees who dont go to church enough etc. If we dont put a stop to this type of stuff soon, the republicans are going to take all the fun out of living. No dancing, no music, no love, no life, just hate disguised under the flag and religion. Its scary your right.
I was a leader in the Army
Serving in the Army, I know what it is like to be a leader. It not something you learn overnight and doesn't come automatically. It takes years to become a good leader and your actions determine whether or not you are one. A leader exhibits certain qualities (confidence, self-discipline, and intelligence to name a couple). To be a good leader you must listen to many. Communicate with your peers for advice to make the best informed decision. You need to back your people up. You need to stick by them and stick up for them. You need to treat them with respect. You need to be the first to put your foot down on enemy territory and the last to take your foot off. You need to have a vision and see the big picture. You need to communicate effectively and find common ground to work together. You need to be able to motivate and inspire, and most importantly hold yourself to the highest of standards. And you never ever quit. Quitting is not an option. I could probably go on at length about being a leader.

The post above has nothing to do with being a leader. Putting off a debate in the times that we are going through so that you can go back to Washington to do your job and help to fix the problem is the responsible thing to do, which goes to show again that Sen. John McCain is a truly responsible leader. He is putting the American people before his own self interest. This crisis must be resolved before anything further can go on. How do you expect to tackle any of the other issues if we can't even get our own country back on track.

Sen John McCain is a true leader. He is telling us it should not fall upon us to bail out the execs while they walk away with millions, and he is the first to put his campaigning on hold to do this. This is the same courage he showed when he was in a POW camp and would not leave before the other soldiers in the camp. Sen. McCain stands up for what is right and will not quit until a solution has been set. He and Gov. Sarah Palin have proven they are not afraid to go against the "good ol boys", while Sen Obama goes along with the good ol boys. If Sen Obama would let the people know that the money he received as a kickback from FMFM he would be paying back would give me a little more confidence that he does care about the people, but Obama, Dodd, Kerry and others (and yes some republicans) are not about to hand back any of the money.

Sen Obama is a smooth talker and that is about all. He tells you what you want to hear but he does not follow through. He is just one more politician giving us a line of hooey thinking he has us fooled (obvious he does have some fooled) but luckily others see through him.

Also, not sure what TV station you watched but Sen McCain did not put off the convention. It went on just as it planned to exactly the dates it was supposed to. Just like the Democratic convention.
Join the Army and BYOB

(In this case, the *B* stands for body armor.)


From: http://www.optruth.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=258&Itemid=66







Body Armor Reimbursement | Print |




OEF/OIF Vets: Did you buy your own body armor, helmet, or other protective gear?  The Pentagon has finally agreed to reimburse you.  Read this article, and get paid back.

October 5, 2005: Once again, Operation Truth’s Online Army helped ensure that those who are risking their lives for this nation get the support they need. After receiving over 5,000 messages from Operation Truth members, the Senate approved an amendment offered by Senator Christopher Dodd, ordering the Secretary of Defense to follow the law and reimburse Troops who were forced to buy their own protective equipment for use in the war in Iraq.


Feeling the pressure from the Senate move, the Department of Defense immediately announced that it will end its stalling and pay Troops back, starting immediately.


OEF/OIF Troops: Here’s what you need to know to get paid back.


Requirements:


1) The equipment must be on a list of critical safety or health equipment that was in short supply. This list includes combat helmets, ballistic eye protection, hydration systems, and tactical vests, including body armor and body armor inserts.  Other equipment, like scopes, are likely to be added soon.


2) With receipts, you’ll be reimbursed for an item’s actual purchase price and shipping cost(up to $1,100 per item). If you don’t have receipts, you will be reimbursed a standard estimated cost for each item.  Here's a partial list of estimated costs:


reimburse.jpg 


3) All reimbursed items become property of the U.S. government and must be turned in to the unit logistics officer, unless they were destroyed in combat or are otherwise no longer available for good reason.


Here’s what you have to do:


Submit Department of Defense Form 2902, Claim for Reimbursement for Privately Purchased Protective, Safety or Health Equipment used in Combat form to your chain of command. If you’ve separated from the service, you can submit this form to an authorizing official designated by their former service at an address on the form.

All claims must be submitted by Oct. 3, 2006.


Army is now recruiting the disabled.






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This speaks volumes and is one of the saddest and most disgusting things I've read in a long time about the administration of compassionate conservatism.   


http://www.oregonlive.com/printer/printer.ssf?/base/news/1146882329307730.xml&coll=7







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An Army of one wrong recruit


Autism - The signing of a disabled Portland man despite warnings reflects problems nationally for military enlistment

Sunday, May 07, 2006
MICHELLE ROBERTS
The Oregonian

Jared Guinther is 18. Tall and lanky, he will graduate from Marshall High School in June. Girls think he's cute, until they try to talk to him and he stammers or just stands there -- silent.


Diagnosed with autism at age 3, Jared is polite but won't talk to people unless they address him first. It's hard for him to make friends. He lives in his own private world.


Jared didn't know there was a war raging in Iraq until his parents told him last fall -- shortly after a military recruiter stopped him outside a Southeast Portland strip mall and complimented him on his black Converse All Stars.


When Jared first started talking about joining the Army, I thought, 'Well, that isn't going to happen,' said Paul Guinther, Jared's father. I told my wife not to worry about it. They're not going to take anybody in the service who's autistic.


But they did. Last month, Jared came home with papers showing that he not only had enlisted, but also had signed up for the Army's most dangerous job: cavalry scout. He is scheduled to leave for basic training Aug. 16.


Officials are now investigating whether recruiters at the U.S. Army Recruiting Station in Southeast Portland improperly concealed Jared's disability, which should have made him ineligible for service.


Jared's story illustrates a growing national problem as the military faces increasing pressure to hit recruiting targets during an unpopular war.


Tracking by the Pentagon shows that complaints about recruiting improprieties are on pace to approach record highs set in 2003 and 2004. The active Army and the Reserve missed recruiting targets last year, and reports of recruiting abuses continue from across the country.


A family in Ohio reported that its mentally ill son was signed up, despite rules banning such enlistments and the fact that records about his illness were readily available.


In Houston, a recruiter warned a potential enlistee that if he backed out of a meeting he would be arrested.


And in Colorado, a high school student working undercover told recruiters he had dropped out and had a drug problem. The recruiter told the boy to fake a diploma and buy a product to help him beat a drug test.


Violations such as these forced the Army to halt recruiting for a day last May so recruiters could be retrained and reminded of the job's ethical requirements.


The Portland Army Recruiting Battalion Headquarters opened its investigation into Jared's case last week after his parents called The Oregonian and the newspaper began asking questions about his enlistment.


Maj. Curt Steinagel, commander of the Military Entrance Processing Station in Portland, said the papers filled out by Jared's recruiters contained no indication of his disability. Steinagel acknowledged that the current climate is tough on recruiters here and elsewhere.


I can't speak for the Army, he said, but it's no secret that recruiters stretch and bend the rules because of all the pressure they're under. The problem exists, and we all know it exists.


Diagnosis and struggle


Jared lives in a tiny brown house in Southeast Portland that looks as worn out as his parents do when they get home from work.


Paul Guinther, 57, labors 50 to 60 hour weeks as a painter-sandblaster at Sundial Marine Tug & Barge Works in Troutdale. His wife, Brenda, 50, has the graveyard housekeeping shift at Kaiser Permanente Sunnyside Medical Center in Clackamas.


The couple got together nearly 16 years ago when Jared was 3. Brenda, who had two young children of her own, immediately noticed that Jared was different and pushed Paul to have the boy tested.


Jared would play with buttons for hours on end, she said. He'd play with one toy for days. Loud noises bothered him. He was scared to death of the toilet flushing, the lawn mower.


Jared didn't speak until he was almost 4 and could not tolerate the feel of grass on his feet.


Doctors diagnosed him with moderate to severe autism, a developmental disorder that strikes when children are toddlers. It causes problems with social interaction, language and intelligence. No one knows its cause or cure.


School and medical records show that Jared, whose recent verbal IQ tested very low, spent years in special education classes. It was only when he was a high school senior that Brenda pushed for Jared to take regular classes because she wanted him to get a normal rather than a modified diploma.


Jared required extensive tutoring and accommodations to pass, but in June he will graduate alongside his younger stepbrother, Matthew Thorsen.


Last fall, Jared began talking about joining the military after a recruiter stopped him on his way home from school and offered a $4,000 signing bonus, $67,000 for college and more buddies than he could count.


Matthew told his mother that military recruiting at the school and surrounding neighborhoods was so intense that one recruiter had pulled him out of football practice.


Recruiters in Portland and nationwide spend several hours a day cold-calling high school students, whose phone numbers are provided by schools under the No Child Left Behind Law. They also prospect at malls, high school cafeterias, colleges and wherever else young people gather.


Brenda phoned her two brothers, both veterans. She said they laughed and told her not to worry. The military would never take Jared.


The Guinthers, meanwhile, tried to refocus their son.


I told him, 'Jared, you get out of high school. I know you don't want to be a janitor all your life. You work this job, you go to community college, you find out what you want. You can live here as long as you want,' Paul said.


They thought it had worked until five weeks ago. Brenda said she called Jared on his cell phone to check what time he'd be home.


I said 'Jared, what are you doing?' 'I'm taking the test,' he said -- the entrance test. I go, 'Wait a minute.' I said, 'Who's giving you the test?' He said, 'Corporal.' I said, 'Well let me talk to him.'


Brenda said she spoke to Cpl. Ronan Ansley and explained that Jared had a disability, autism, that could not be outgrown. She said Ansley told her he had been in special classes, too -- for dyslexia.


I said, 'Wait a minute, there's a big difference between autism and your problem,' Brenda said.


Military rules prohibit enlisting anyone with a mental disorder that interferes with school or employment, unless a recruit can show he or she hasn't required special academic or job accommodations for 12 months.


Jared has been in special education classes since preschool. Through a special program for disabled workers, he has a part-time job scrubbing toilets and dumping trash.


Jared scored 43 out of 99 on the Army's basic entrance exam -- 31 is the lowest grade the Army allows for enlistment, military officials said.


After learning that Jared had cleared this first hurdle toward enlistment, Brenda said, she called and asked for Ansley's supervisor and got Sgt. Alejandro Velasco.


She said she begged Velasco to review Jared's medical and school records. Brenda said Velasco declined, asserting that he didn't need any paperwork. Under military rules, recruiters are required to gather all available information about a recruit and fill out a medical screening form.


He was real cocky and he says, 'Well, Jared's an 18-year-old man. He doesn't need his mommy to make his decisions for him.'


Question of comprehension


The Guinthers are not political activists. They supported the Iraq war in the beginning but have started to question it as fighting dragged on. Brenda Guinther said that if her son Matthew had enlisted, she wouldn't like it, but I would learn to live with it because I know he would understand the consequences.


But Jared doesn't understand the dangers or the details of what he has done, the Guinthers said.


When they asked Jared how long he would be in the Army, he said he didn't know. His enlistment papers show it's just over four years. Jared also was disappointed to learn that he wouldn't be paid the $4,000 signing bonus until after basic training.


During a recent family gathering, a relative asked Jared what he would do if an enemy was shooting at him. Jared ran to his video game console and killed a digital Xbox soldier and announced, See! I can do it!


My concern is that if he got into a combat situation he really couldn't take someone's back, said Mary Lou Perry, 51, a longtime friend of the Guinthers'. He wouldn't really know a dangerous thing. This job they have him doing, it's like send him in and if he doesn't get blown up, it's safe for the rest of us.


Steinagel, the processing station commander, told The Oregonian that Jared showed up after passing his written exam. None of his paperwork indicated that he was autistic, but if it had, Jared almost certainly would have been disqualified, he said.


On Tuesday, a reporter visited the U.S. Army Recruiting Station at the Eastport Plaza Shopping Center, where Velasco said he had not been told about Jared's autism.


Cpl. Ansley is Guinther's recruiter, he said. I was unaware of any type of autism or anything like that.


Velasco initially denied knowing Jared but later said he'd spent a lot of time mentoring him because Jared was going to become a cavalry scout. The job entails engaging the enemy with anti-armor weapons and scout vehicles, according to an Army recruiting Web site.


After he had spoken for a few moments, Velasco suddenly grabbed the reporter's tape recorder and tried to tear out the tape, stopping only after the reporter threatened to call the police.


With the Guinthers' permission, The Oregonian faxed Jared's medical records to the U.S. Army Recruiting Battalion commander, Lt. Col. David Carlton in Portland, who on Wednesday ordered the investigation.


The Guinthers said that on Tuesday evening, Cpl. Ansley showed up at their door. They said Ansley stated that he would probably lose his job and face dishonorable discharge unless they could stop the newspaper's story.


Ansley, reached at his recruiting office Thursday, declined to comment for this story.


S. Douglas Smith, spokesman for the U.S. Army Recruiting Command, in Fort Knox, Ky., said he could not comment on specifics of the investigation in Portland. But he defended the 8,200 recruiters working for the active Army and Army Reserve.


Last year, the Army relieved 44 recruiters from duty and admonished 369.


Everyone in recruiting is let down when one of our recruiters fails to uphold the Army's and Recruiting Command's standards, Smith said.


The Guinthers are eager to hear whether the Army will release Jared from his enlistment. Jared is disappointed he might not go because he thought the recruiters were his friends, they said. But they're willing to accept that.


If he went to Iraq and got hurt or killed, Paul Guinther said, I couldn't live with myself knowing I didn't try to stop it.


©2006 The Oregonian


 


The sicko who shot the army soldier

and murdered him justifies himself by saying it was not a murder; it was a justified killing.......    Our liberal media has been so hush hush about the murder of this solider, maybe they think they same thing!!  They sure have talked about the baby murderer's murder til I'm sick to death of hearing it!!! 


Too bad Obama thought discussing the tiller murder was more important than mentioning a soldier's murder in THIS country due to a sicko islamic convert within our own country....  speaks volumes to me...


The sicko who shot the army soldier

and murdered him justifies himself by saying it was not a murder; it was a justified killing.......    Our liberal media has been so hush hush about the murder of this solider, maybe they think they same thing!!  They sure have talked about the baby murderer's murder til I'm sick to death of hearing it!!! 


Too bad Obama thought discussing the tiller murder was more important than mentioning a soldier's murder in THIS country due to a sicko islamic convert within our own country....  speaks volumes to me...


You fail to note that the Army Corp of Engineers....
is a federal entity and it was THEIR job to fix the levies, too bad W cut all the funding so he could play Monopoly in Iraq.
U.S. Army Intelligence Analyst Accused of Disloyaty for Doubts...

Thousands are rallying behind this guy as the story makes its way around the web.  The story is just below the picture. 


http://www.williambowles.info/gispecial/2006/0806/280806/gi_4h28_280806.html


 


So a FREE society cuts billions from the army corp of engineers....
so, literally, whole cities drown but we can spend trillions on a war based on lies and support corporations like Halliburton. Sure, why not. It has worked very, very well.
Army order soldiers to get rid of better body armor or lose death benefits
Army Orders Soldiers to Shed Dragon Skin or Lose SGLI Death Benefits

By Nathaniel R. Helms

Two deploying soldiers and a concerned mother reported Friday afternoon that the U.S. Army appears to be singling out soldiers who have purchased Pinnacle's Dragon Skin Body Armor for special treatment. The soldiers, who are currently staging for combat operations from a secret location, reported that their commander told them if they were wearing Pinnacle Dragon Skin and were killed their beneficiaries might not receive the death benefits from their $400,000 SGLI life insurance policies. The soldiers were ordered to leave their privately purchased body armor at home or face the possibility of both losing their life insurance benefit and facing disciplinary action.

The soldiers asked for anonymity because they are concerned they will face retaliation for going public with the Army's apparently new directive. At the sources' requests DefenseWatch has also agreed not to reveal the unit at which the incident occured for operational security reasons.

On Saturday morning a soldier affected by the order reported to DefenseWatch that the directive specified that all commercially available body armor was prohibited. The soldier said the order came down Friday morning from Headquarters, United States Special Operations Command (HQ, USSOCOM), located at MacDill Air Force Base, Florida. It arrived unexpectedly while his unit was preparing to deploy on combat operations. The soldier said the order was deeply disturbiing to many of the men who had used their own money to purchase Dragon Skin because it will affect both their mobility and ballistic protection.

We have to be able to move. It (Dragon Skin) is heavy, but it is made so we have mobility and the best ballistic protection out there. This is crazy. And they are threatening us with our benefits if we don't comply. he said.

The soldier reiterated Friday's reports that any soldier who refused to comply with the order and was subsequently killed in action could be denied the $400,000 death benefit provided by their SGLI life insurance policy as well as face disciplinary action.

As of this report Saturday morning the Army has not yet responded to a DefenseWatch inquiry.

Recently Dragon Skin became an item of contention between proponents of the Interceptor OTV body armor generally issued to all service members deploying in combat theaters and its growing legion of critics. Critics of the Interceptor OTV system say it is ineffective and inferior to Dragon Skin, as well as several other commercially available body armor systems on the market. Last week DefenseWatch released a secret Marine Corps report that determined that 80% of the 401 Marines killed in Iraq between April 2004 and June 2005 might have been saved if the Interceptor OTV body armor they were wearing was more effective. The Army has declined to comment on the report because doing so could aid the enemy, an Army spokesman has repeatedly said.

A U.S. Army spokesman was not available for comment at the time DW's original report (Friday - 1700 CST) was published. DefenseWatch continues to seek a response from the Army and will post one as soon as it becomes available. Yesterday the DoD released a news story through the Armed Forces News Service that quoted Maj. Gen. Steven Speaks, the Army's director of force development, who countered critical media reports by denying that the U.S. military is behind the curve in providing appropriate force protection gear for troops deployed to Iraq and elsewhere in the global war against terrorism. The New York Tiimes and Washington Post led the bandwagon of mainstream media that capitalized on DefenseWatch's release of the Marine Corps study. Both newspapers released the forensic information the Army and Marines are unwilling to discuss.

Those headlines entirely miss the point, Speaks said.

The effort to improve body armor has been a programmatic effort in the case of the Army that has gone on with great intensity for the last five months, he noted.

Speaks' assessment contradicts earlier Army, Marine and DoD statements that indicated as late as last week that the Army was certain there was nothing wrong with Interceptor OTV body armor and that it was and remains the best body armor in the world.

One of the soldiers who lost his coveted Dragon Skin is a veteran operator. He reported that his commander expressed deep regret upon issuing his orders directing him to leave his Dragon Skin body armor behind. The commander reportedly told his subordinates that he had no choice because the orders came from very high up and had to be enforced, the soldier said. Another soldier's story was corroborated by his mother, who helped defray the $6,000 cost of buying the Dragon Skin, she said.

The mother of the soldier, who hails from the Providence, Rhode Island area, said she helped pay for the Dragon Skin as a Christmas present because her son told her it was so much better than the Interceptor OTV they expected to be issued when arriving in country for a combat tour.

He didn't want to use that other stuff, she said. He told me that if anything happened to him I am supposed to raise hell.

At the time the orders were issued the two soldiers had already loaded their Dragon Skin body armor onto the pallets being used to air freight their gear into the operational theater, the soldiers said. They subsequently removed it pursuant to their orders.

Currently nine U.S. generals stationed in Afghanistan are reportedly wearing Pinnacle Dragon Skin body armor, according to company spokesman Paul Chopra. Chopra, a retired Army chief warrant officer and 20+-year pilot in the famed 160th Nightstalkers Special Operations Aviation Regiment (Airborne), said his company was merely told the generals wanted to evaluate the body armor in a combat environment. Chopra said he did not know the names of the general officers wearing the Dragon Skin.

Pinnacle claims more than 3,000 soldiers and civilians stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan are wearing Dragon Skin body armor, Chopra said. Several months ago DefenseWatch began receiving anecdotal reports from individual soldiers that they were being forced to remove all non-issue gear while in theater, including Dragon Skin body armor, boots, and various kinds of non-issue ancillary equipment.

Last year the DoD, under severe pressure from Congress, authorized a one-time $1,000 reimbursement to soldiers who had purchased civilian equipment to supplement either inadequate or unavailable equipment they needed for combat operations. At the time there was no restriction on what the soldiers could buy as long as it was specifically intended to offer personal protection or further their mission capabilities while in theater.

my take on his service
Having served in the US Army I am very proud of my time served. I love talking about my time in the Army to people who will listen. I was in when the Falklands War happened (we were on standby and were undergoing training 24 hours/7 days to prepare for war - thankfully it did not happen), but it was a very very scary time for all around me. Also I was in during the Cold War and stationed very close to our enemies and that was also very scary, but to have actually gone through a "real" war I couldn't imagine. Especially being captured and tortured. I do know a lot of veterans that were in the wars and they do want to talk about it, but every veteran is different. My opinion is (and yes its only my opinion) that John McCain gave so much to this country. Yes it was a long time ago, but he suffered and that is not something you can easily forget, especially when he lives with it every day.

I'm not saying you, but I know a lot of people (especially a lot of posters here) who are supporting Obama and they get very upset that McCain brings up his service, but mainly because it shows he is a loyal patriot to the country and that is something that voters take very seriously and I believe it scares the Obama supporters.

What he did for his country is one of his proofs that he will stick up for the American people and he will fight for what is right for a better American and I believe that is why he keeps bringing it up. His voting record and time in the senate is his other proof.

Barack keeps changing his mind about everything, and I'm not saying he is not patriotic (nobody knows but he and his family), but when you don't wear a flag pin, or put your hand over your heart during the pledge of allegience and the national anthem, and removes the American Flag from his airplane it is one more reminder to us that Barack is not (I'm trying to find the right words without offending anyone or having it come out wrong). It's not unpatriotic, but its more like he doesn't care. Barack will take care of Barack (as he has been doing while accepting HUGE payouts from the latest FM/FM scandel). John McCain's time in the service is one of the things he is quite proud of and we all should honor and give him credit for his time and suffering he endured, but also let it be a reminder to us that he will not back out and run away when the going gets tough. He will stick it out and fight for us. He has already done so (you can look at his voting record). Unlike Obama who voted "present" I don't know how many times - lost track counting, therefore that leads me to believe he will not stick up for us and when the going gets tough I believe he will go with whoever puts money in his pocket. All you have to do is take a look at FM/FM and what he did.

So, I do know some Vietnam vets, and some World War II vets, and my dad was in the service during the Korean War, and they all want to talk about their service and what happened to them and what they went through. It was a very emotional time and they have every right to be proud of what they have done. His being a POW will have a lot of effect on people and I am one of them.
Thank you for your service. sm
I would vote for McCain if only out of support for our military men and women. Their votes should be counted first, yet only 30% of them will be counted at all (below poster should be feeling quite smug).

My son wants to join the Marines, and there are still people calling the Iraq war POINTLESS.

Looks like that white flag of surrender will be waving soon.
Should be the Secret Service! nm

CIA, Secret Service, etc.

Fact:  Obama wouldn't pass a background check for either of these organizations based on his associations alone (Wright, Ayers, Dohrn, etc.), yet somehow it's different to be President?


Don't waste your time arguing the point.  Look it up for yourselves and start paying attention to plain facts. 


As a side item, none of us would qualify based on associations like these.


According to the secret service
those statements weren't made at her meeting or whatever.

Personally I think it could have been some Obama supporters there doing it just to start things. It may have not been endorsed by the Obama campaign but it could happen. In the same sense, she could have not heard it being up on stage if her supporters were saying it. I was talking to my husband about this (he's been in a couple of bands) and you know how sometime the band members will talk with the audience? Well they have done that before and he said he could never figure out what the crowd was yelling back when they all got going and after awhile you just tune it out. Could have been the same deal. Now if she was up there saying "we need to kill the terrorist" I would have to question her...

The mud is being slung from both sides ya'll, gotta dig deep to find the truth. Stop believing what's on the surface.
According to the Secret Service...

who yelled "kill him" when Barack Obama's name was mentioned during a Sarah Palin rally?


 


After investigating the claim, the Secret Service concluded that no one actually heard the comment that was widely reported in the media


Thank you - Soon community service will
have to wear uniforms, and community service will turn into government. You can sugar coat it any way you want to - it's still FORCED! NOT an option. People do not have a choice. That is what we call a draft.
Community service

My "baby" is 37 years old.  I was just thinking..........he earned his private pilot's license at age 16.  MAYBE something like this is what Obama has in mind??


http://www.cap.gov/visitors/about/our_programs/cadet_programs.cfm


Who I feel bad for are the ones in the service now
I see so many stories that are just heart aching of the ones that are getting out of the service now. What do they have to come back to? There is nothing for them and it's awful. Our country has been in such disarray for so long, if I was in the service I would probably stay in. When I got out there was a thriving economy, but now??? Just a horrible situation for them.

I loved the service when I was in it (except getting called out of bed at 2 am in the middle of winter to pack up gear, load equipment on the trucks, then get trucked out to the boonies and stand guard for nothing. :-) Or getting called out of bed at 4 am payday fridays' to run 5 miles (I hated running) :-) But my experience overall I'm glad I did it and had the chance to be in the service at the time I was in. Now I think it's just very sad for the soldier's facing getting out of the service.
Thank you for your service!..and Boxer is an
nm
I am sure the Secret Service all love

piling into that Ford Focus everyday....lol  Methinks he probably has a limo or two, just not in his name...


Another thank you for your service. White flag is right..

what a nation of wimps we will become under this man. He'll be hiding behind Michelle's skirt.


My kids do community service
They have participated in numerous community service programs and projects, from collecting and packing items for the homeless to refurbishing parks. They ask to participate in them based on the listings in our newspaper. How very sad for your children that you would not allow them to feel invested in their community and would deny them the wonderful feeling that comes from helping others.
Both my daughers belong to a service
organization that does things in the community year round. In fact, my oldest daughter got a scholarship at a private college mainly because of her community service. I believe that community service teaches our young people to give something back to the community to help those less fortunate. It is a very good plan in my opinion.
The Secret Service is idiotic?

my kids are not joining a community service org
nm
my kids have done community service in the past
They have been in girlscouts for years. I have a big problem with it being mandatory. You people just have no clue. I'm bitter and stupid and selfish I guess for wanting freedom of choice for me and my children.
Secret service has said "yes" they do have these weapons...
I agree, the U.S. should nEVER stick their nose in any country's business as far as I am concerned; however, with Obama, it is no secret he has never stayed silent with the asian countries but has bowed his way through the muslim countries.... O lovers can think what they want but O is Muslim, will always be Muslim, and that's that....don't really care what anyone else thinks...his silence speaks volumes. O says he wants to "reach out" to the muslim world... well folks, this is his chance to just say something. He doesn't have to interfere and shouldn't.

Don't worry about your precious Obama..... he has no power whatsoever. He is nothing more than a little puppet being pulled by very elite people.... how else do you think he was elected? Sure as heck not because he's qualified!!!

Mousavi is like choosing between bad and evil.... either way, those folks are screwed!! BTW, we should NEVER be involved with the UN. We don't need other countries to decide for us what we should and should not do....

And when you're paying through your nose in Obama's taxes for your wonderful government controlled life, see how much you love him then! And, yes, he will screw you over too!
Clinton and C, King's memoral service today....
Four presidents were present at Coretta King's memorial service today. Carter was there and blasted Bush by recalling how the Kings were illegally wiretapped. Bush Sr. was there and actually seemed quite amiable and pleasant. Bush Jr. got up and read his usual canned ghost-written blah blah.

It was almost embarrassing though to see the difference in the way the mourners responded to Bush Jr and to Bill Clinton. The crowd greeted Clinton with resounding cheers and a standing ovation when he came into the church - no such greeting for Bush, only a polite clapping. When Clinton took his turn to speak - the only speaker of the Presidents by the way not to be reading a notepad or turning pages on the podium - he got a another standing ovation for his eulogy, which was delivered off the cuff, from the heart, and just seemed to hit a nerve with the audience like Bush Jr. has never been able to do.

I think it's clear - despite the smear jobs and the hypocritical railroading, the vast majority of America still loves Bill Clinton and in fact I think always has. Sure, he's not perfect and did some questionable things. But, his intelligence, charisma, ability to speak eloquently without teleprompters or earpieces, and just plain good empathy, diplomacy and people-sense, when compared side by side with Bush's obvious discomfort and absorption in his script pages, just really made clear how much we are lacking in the White House today - painfully clear.

The memorial service was great though, with a tone of worship and celebration rather than sadness. Goodbye to a truly great lady.
First President Bush Attends Lay's Memorial Service

I'm surprised Dubya didn't attend this since he recently told Larry King that Lay was such a *good guy.*


Friends remember Lay at memorial service





By KRISTEN HAYS, AP Business WriterWed Jul 12, 7:17 PM ET



Enron Corp. founder Kenneth Lay was a high-powered businessman, philanthropist and family man who didn't succumb to despair despite the scandal that destroyed his company and left him a vilified felon, friends and family members said at a memorial service Wednesday where mourners included former President George Bush.


Lay's 90-minute service drew some of the high-profile guests who were close to him before he was convicted in May of fraud and conspiracy for lying to investors and the public about the energy company's financial health. Enron collapsed in late 2001.


Neither the Bushes nor former Secretary of State James Baker III, Houston Astros owner Drayton McLane Jr. and noted heart surgeon Denton Cooley spoke. The Bushes sat directly behind Lay's wife, Linda.


Instead, Lay's family and friends sought to show a kinder view of him than had been seen publicly since the company's collapse. Some expressed bitterness over their — and Lay's — steadfast belief that he was wrongly convicted in one of the biggest corporate frauds in history.


I am angry because of the way he was treated in the last five years of his life, and I think I'll leave it there, leave it at that, said Lay's stepson, David Herrold, who attended much of the four-month trial.


I am glad he's not in a position anymore to be whipped by his enemy, Herrold said to the hundreds in attendance at Houston's First United Methodist Church, which Lay attended for 12 years.


His mother, Linda Lay, dabbed tears with a handkerchief.


Lay died of heart disease July 5 in Aspen, Colo., where he was vacationing with his wife. About 200 friends and family, including his co-defendant, former Enron chief executive Jeffrey Skilling, attended a small memorial service there on Sunday.


But Skilling decided not to attend Wednesday's service because of heavy media coverage, said his attorney, Daniel Petrocelli. His wife, former Enron corporate secretary Rebecca Carter, attended both services.


As guests entered the sanctuary, they passed a framed photo of a smiling Lay wearing a red Enron T-shirt, blue athletic shorts and gym shoes. Two large bouquets of sunflowers sat on either side of the pulpit, while two burning candles sat on each side of an open Bible in the center.


The Rev. Bill Lawson, prominent pastor of the African-American Wheeler Avenue Baptist Church in Houston, said the Lay he knew wasn't the target of late-night TV jokes or a pariah. Lawson called Lay a victim of a lynching and praised mourners for staying friends with him through the scandal.


The folks who don't like him have had their say. I'd like to have mine and I don't care what you think about it, he said, eliciting brief applause. Now his grandchildren won't ask, `Why is Papia in jail?' No more persecution. That is behind him, Lawson said.


Lawson evoked leaders who he said were vilified in life but vindicated by history, including the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., John F. Kennedy and our Lord Jesus Christ.


Minutes before Wednesday's service began, shrieks pierced the sanctuary as Lay friend and former Houston Mayor Bob Lanier, 81, collapsed in an aisle. Carter and Lawson comforted Lanier's distraught wife, Elyse, before paramedics whisked him to a hospital, where was in stable condition with an irregular heartbeat.


Lay and Skilling were the faces of Enron throughout the company's meteoric rise from a stodgy pipeline company to a powerhouse energy trader.


Their reputations shattered alongside the company as their images switched from business visionaries to perpetrators of fraud that fueled a spectacular crash that evaporated $60 billion in market value and left thousands jobless.


A jury convicted Lay of six counts of fraud and conspiracy and Skilling of 19 of 28 counts of fraud, conspiracy, insider trading and lying to auditors. Lay also was convicted of bank fraud and lying to banks in a separate, non-jury trial related to his personal banking.


Lay died awaiting their Oct. 23 sentencing, and his lawyers are expected to ask a judge to erase his conviction because his death left his case unfinished. Skilling still faces sentencing on that date and could be ordered to serve decades in prison.

Beau Herrold, another Lay stepson who manages the family's finances, read from a letter he had begun writing to U.S. District Judge Sim Lake that he intended to deliver before Lay's sentencing.

In the letter, he described Lay as a devoted husband, father, grandfather and brother who always found a way to make time for family. Lay is survived by his wife, children, two sisters and 12 grandchildren.

___

Associated Press photographers David Phillip and Pat Sullivan, viedographer Rich Matthews and writer Chris Duncan contributed to this report.





Copyright © 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060712/ap_on_bi_ge/lay_memorial_service;_ylt=Ak8bN9MlqcDqW3FxUR78CzOs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3bGI2aDNqBHNlYwM3NDk-







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Y'know....all these derisive remarks about McCain's service...
and his years in a POW camp...with all due respect, if enduring unspeakable torture for 5 years for refusing to make propaganda tapes for the enemy, turning down a release offered to him because his father was a high ranking military officer because there were men there who had been there longer than he had and suffering even more because he turned it down...the unimaginable suffering, the honor, integrity and love for his country he showed...separated from loved ones, family, friends and country for 5 long years...to be boiled down to a political phrase "lying in a POW camp for 5 years does not make you qualified to run a country." I say it does, in spades. THAT is character. THAT is integrity. THAT is patriotism.
Secret Service to investigate hate speech
Now that campaign is a real class act.
Secret Service Shows Up At Texas Mom's Door...














Quote:
They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up.








Quote:
Last week, here in America, they came for Jessica Hughes, and I will not be silent. I will not turn away, hoping, in the end, they will not come for me.

Jessica Hughes of Lufkin, Texas, former Marine, mother of three, answered her cell phone in the car, coming home from the emergency room. Her 9-year-old had suffered a mild concussion, but was OK.

The caller was a female Obama volunteer who asked if Jessica would support Obama for president.

Jessica replied, "No, I don't support him. Your guy is a socialist who voted four times in the state Senate to let little babies die in hospital closets; I think you should find something better to do with your time." Then Jessica hung up.

The next day, a man and a woman in suits showed up at the door of her home, identifying themselves as members of the Secret Service.

The Secret Service agents stated that the Obama campaign had complained of a death threat. They had quoted Jessica as saying, "I will never support Obama, and he will wind up dead on a hospital floor."

Jessica's husband had heard Jessica's side of the original phone call and verified the actual quote. To which the female agent replied, "Oh? Well why would she (the Obama volunteer) make that up?"

Jessica replied that the Obama volunteer was probably unhappy about what Jessica had said about her candidate. The female agent then said "That's right, you were rude!"

The male agent then displayed a file with Jessica's full name prominently printed on it and asked her how she felt about Obama. At this point, the former Marine told the agent "in no uncertain terms" (as she later recounted) that this was America and that the last time she checked, she was allowed to think whatever she wanted without being questioned by the Secret Service. And was being "rude" a federal crime now too?

The agents then admitted they had no tape of the conversation, just the quote from the Obama campaign.

Responding to Jessica's questions, the agents would not identify themselves by name, nor reveal the name of the Obama volunteer who had made the complaint. The agents did indicate that Jessica was not in a court of law yet, and that they were trying to not embarrass her "by going to all her family and neighbors."

To these implied threats, Jessica invited the agents to speak to whomever they wanted, and stated she would happily go to court since she had done nothing wrong.

Jessica asked the agents, "Look, someone calls me unsolicited on my cell phone to ask me to support their candidate, and I can't tell them why I don't?"

The Secret Service left Jessica that day, but she could not get the "visit" out of her mind.


Source:http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=77825

they had to join a community service organization to graduate?
x
Sarah Palin blamed by the US Secret Service over
Sarah Palin's attacks on Barack Obama's patriotism provoked a spike in death threats against the future president, Secret Service agents revealed during the final weeks of the campaign.

The Republican vice presidential candidate attracted criticism for accusing Mr Obama of "palling around with terrorists", citing his association with the sixties radical William Ayers.

The attacks provoked a near lynch mob atmosphere at her rallies, with supporters yelling "terrorist" and "kill him" until the McCain campaign ordered her to tone down the rhetoric.

But it has now emerged that her demagogic tone may have unintentionally encouraged white supremacists to go even further.

The Secret Service warned the Obama family in mid October that they had seen a dramatic increase in the number of threats against the Democratic candidate, coinciding with Mrs Palin's attacks.
So how many threats on Palin's life is the Secret Service
THAT'S what!
Rahm Emanuel wants forced civil service

Listen to the link.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfV8iXiB9Xg


DH said its disgusting that he's laughing about it.


Not shaking, just hopping mad at his denigration of his nephews service and his rudeness
x
Thank you, President Bush, for your service and especially for keeping us safe at home. nm

Bush first ex-prez to face limit on Secret Service protection

By Maria Recio McClatchy Newspapers


WASHINGTON — President George W. Bush's "after-life," as Laura Bush calls the post-presidency, is shaping up to be pretty comfortable, with a Dallas office, staffers, Secret Service protection, a travel budget, medical coverage and a $196,700 annual pension, all at taxpayers' expense.


However, Bush will be the first president not to benefit from one former lifetime benefit: Secret Service protection.


"He'll be the first one to receive it for 10 years," said Malcolm Wiley, Secret Service spokesman. Congress changed the law in the 1990s so that any president elected after Jan. 1, 1997, and his or her spouse will receive the federal protection for only 10 years.


The Bushes will move to their new $2 million, 8,500-square-foot Dallas home — not paid for by taxpayers — on Jan. 20, and there Bush will be close to his future presidential library at Southern Methodist University.


"We're working on a conceptual design for the building," said Mark Langdale, president of the George W. Bush Foundation. The president will help develop the $300 million structure, which will include a library, museum and policy institute.


Fundraising is just beginning, Langdale said. Once the project is finished in 2013, the National Archives and Records Administration will take over the operation of the library and museum, at federal expense. Construction will be paid for with private funds, and Bush is expected to be involved in organizing the fundraising drive.


"He is enthusiastic about spending a lot of his time and effort working on the programs of the institute," Langdale said.


Bush will maintain an office nearby in space acquired by the General Services Administration, which, under the Former Presidents Act, will pay for the office suite and staff to assist him for the rest of his life.


Bush's pension, which is tied to the base pay of the most senior government executives and increases with federal cost-of-living adjustments, will be about half the $400,000 annual presidential salary. He and Vice President Dick Cheney will receive transition expenses as well for seven months — one month before the inauguration and six months afterward — "to facilitate their transition to private life," according to the Congressional Research Service.


The GSA also covers travel expenses for any official activities attended by a former president, as well as two staff members. Former President Bill Clinton was allocated $50,000 for travel in fiscal year 2008 and former President George H.W. Bush, $56,000.


Former presidents and their families are entitled to health care in military hospitals, although they have to pay a reimbursement rate set by the Office of Management and Budget.


Bush will receive a state funeral upon his death, with full military honors for the former commander in chief.


We ARE the military.
You forget that when it comes time to put themselves on the line, you have just as many Democrats stepping forward as you do Republicans - and many more Dems go on for careers in public service. You think you own the Army? The Marines? The Navy? Well you're wrong. The military is a BIPARTISAN operation. Your problem in understanding this is that you refuse to listen to anything BUT soldiers confirming your tunnel vision. I watched the C-Span coverage of Saturday's march AND the C-Span coverage of Sunday's pro-war attempt. I listen to what all veterans have to say, not just a few that I can brand as like me. You won't have any kind of a realistic view of the whole picture until you consider BOTH sides of the issue.
I was in the military all through the 80s.
Ex-husband is a 100 percent disabled Vietnam vet with PTSD. Currently 1 son in the Army on his 2nd enlistment (in Korea even as we speak, as well as serving in both Afghanistan and Iraq). My other son and daughter-in-law also served in the Army.


The military is not the only way
su
The military could get him...yes
I can't say enough good about our young warriers but they can only follow orders.