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Yes, but missed it. Will try to catch it during

Posted By: week. Loved his special. on 2007-10-27
In Reply to: Any Bill Maher fans out there? - piglet

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catch - you know what I mean -

Iraq's Catch 22

Came across this earlier ~ My sentiments from another's pen.  Found on the Independent's web site.


Catch 22 in Iraq
Why American Troops Can’t Go Home


by Michael Schwartz


Every week or so, the Department of Defense conducts a video-conference press briefing for reporters in Washington, featuring an on-the-ground officer in Iraq. On November 15th, that briefing was with Col. Jeffrey Bannister, commander of the Second Brigade of the Second Infantry Division. He was chosen because of his unit’s successful application of surge tactics in three mainly Shia districts in eastern Baghdad. He had, among other things, set up several outposts in these districts offering a 24-hour American military presence; he had also made generous use of transportable concrete walls meant to separate and partition neighborhoods, and had established numerous checkpoints to prevent unauthorized entry or exit from these communities.


As Col. Bannister summed up the situation:



“We have been effective, and we’ve seen violence significantly reduced as our Iraqi security forces have taken a larger role in all aspects of operations, and we are starting to see harmony between Sunni and Shi’a alike.”


The briefing seemed uneventful — very much a reflection of the ongoing mood of the moment among American commanders in Iraq — and received no significant media coverage. However, there was news lurking in an answer Col. Bannister gave to a question from AP reporter Pauline Jelinek (about arming volunteer local citizens to patrol their neighborhoods), even if it passed unnoticed. The colonel made a remarkable reference to an unexplained “five-year plan” that, he indicated, was guiding his actions. Here was his answer in full:



“I mean, right now we’re focused just on security augmentation [by the volunteers] and growing them to be Iraqi police because that is where the gap is that we’re trying to help fill capacity for in the Iraqi security forces. The army and the national police, I mean, they’re fine. The Iraqi police is — you know, the five-year plan has — you know, it’s doubling in size. … [We expect to have] 4,000 Iraqi police on our side over the five-year plan.


“So that’s kind of what we’re doing. We’re helping on security now, growing them into IP [Iraqi police]…. They’ll have 650 slots that I fill in March, and over the five-year period we’ll grow up to another 2,500 or 3,500.


Most astonishing in his comments is the least astonishing word in our language: “the.” Colonel Bannister refers repeatedly to “the five-year plan,” assuming his audience understands that there is indeed a master plan for his unit — and for the American occupation — mandating a slow, many-year buildup of neighborhood-protection forces into full fledged police units. This, in turn, is all part of an even larger plan for the conduct of the occupation.


Included in this implicit understanding is the further assumption that Col. Bannister’s unit, or some future replacement unit, will be occupying these areas of eastern Baghdad for that five-year period until that 4,000 man police force is finally fully developed.


Staying the Course, Any Course


A recent Washington Post political cartoon by Tom Toles captured the irony and tragedy of this “five-year plan.” A big sign on the White House lawn has the message “We can’t leave Iraq because it’s going…” and a workman is adjusting a dial from “Badly” to “Well.”


This cartoon raises the relevant question: If things are “going well” in Iraq, then why aren’t American troops being withdrawn? This is a point raised persuasively by Robert Dreyfuss in a recent Tomdispatch post in which he argues that the decline in three major forms of violence (car bombs, death-squad executions, and roadside IEDs) should be the occasion for a reduction, and then withdrawal, of the American military presence. But, as Dreyfuss notes, the Bush administration has no intention of organizing such a withdrawal; nor, it seems, does the Democratic Party leadership — as indicated by their refusal to withhold funding for the war, and by the promises of the leading presidential candidates to maintain significant levels of American troops in Iraq, at least through any first term in office.


The question that emerges is why stay this course? If violence has been reduced by more than 50%, why not begin to withdraw significant numbers of troops in preparation for a complete withdrawal? The answer can be stated simply: A reduction in the violence does not mean that things are “going well,” only that they are going “less badly.”


You can tell things can’t be going well if your best-case plan is for an armed occupation force to remain in a major Baghdad community for the next five years. It means that the underlying causes of disorder are not being addressed. You can tell things are not going well if five more years are needed to train and activate a local police force, when police training takes about six months. (Consider this an indication that the recruits exhibit loyalties and goals that run contrary to those of the American military.) You can tell things are not going well when communities have to be surrounded by cement walls and checkpoints that naturally disrupt normal life, including work, school, and daily shopping. These are all signs that escalating discontent and protest may require new suppressive actions in the not-so-distant future.


The American military is well aware of this. They keep reminding us that the present decline in violence may be temporary, nothing more than a brief window of opportunity that could be used to resolve some of the “political problems” facing Iraq before the violence can be reinvigorated. The current surge — even “the five year plan” — is not designed to solve Iraq’s problems, just to hold down the violence while others, in theory, act.


What Does the Bush Administration Want in Iraq?


What are the political problems that require resolution? The typical mainstream media version of these problems makes them out to be uniquely Iraqi in nature. They stem — so the story goes — from deeply engrained friction among Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds, frustrating all efforts to resolve matters like the distribution of political power and oil revenues. In this version, the Americans are (usually inept) mediators in Iraqi disputes and are fated to remain in Iraq only because the Bush administration has little choice but to establish relatively peaceful and equitable solutions to these disputes before seriously considering leaving.


By now, however, most of us realize that there is much more to the American purpose in Iraq than a commitment to an elected government in Baghdad that could peacefully resolve sectarian tensions. The rhetoric of the Bush administration and its chief democratic opponents (most notably Senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama) is increasingly laced with references — to quote Clinton — to “vital national security interests” in the Middle East that will require a continuing “military as well as political mission.” In Iraq, leading Washington politicians of both parties agree on the necessity of establishing a friendly government that will welcome the presence of a “residual” American military force, oppose Iran’s regional aspirations, and prevent the country from becoming “a petri dish for insurgents.”


Let’s be clear about those “vital national security interests.” America’s vital interests in the Middle East derive from the region’s status as the world’s principle source of oil. President Jimmy Carter enunciated exactly this principle back in 1980 when he promulgated the Carter Doctrine, stating that the U.S. was willing to use “any means necessary, including military force,” to maintain access to supplies of Middle Eastern oil sufficient to keep the global economy running smoothly. All subsequent presidents have reiterated, amplified, and acted on this principle.


The Bush administration, in applying the Carter Doctrine, was faced with the need to access increasing amounts of Middle Eastern oil in light of constantly escalating world energy consumption. In 2001, Vice-President Cheney’s Energy Task Force responded to this challenge by designating Iraq as the linchpin in a general plan to double Middle Eastern oil production in the following years. It was reasonable, task force members decided, to hope for a genuine spurt in production in Iraq, whose oil industry had remained essentially stagnant (or worse) from 1980 to that moment. By ousting the backward-looking regime of Saddam Hussein and transferring the further development, production, and distribution of Iraq’s bounteous oil reserves to multinational oil companies, they would assure the introduction of modern methods of production, ample investment capital, and an aggressive urge to increase output. Indeed, after removing Saddam via invasion in 2003, the Bush administration has made repeated (if so far unsuccessful) efforts to implement this plan.


The desire for such an endpoint has hardly disappeared. It became increasingly clear, however, that successful implementation of such plans would, at best, take many years, and that the maintenance of a powerful American political and military presence within Iraq was a necessary prerequisite to everything else. Since sustaining such a presence was itself a major problem, however, it also became clear that America’s plans depended on dislodging powerful forces entrenched in all levels of Iraqi society — from public opinion to elected leaders to the insurgency itself.


American ambitions — far more than sectarian tensions — constitute the irresolvable core of Iraq’s political problems. The overwhelming majority of Iraqis oppose the occupation. They wish the Americans gone and a regime in place in Baghdad that is not an American ally. (This is true whether you are considering the Shiite majority or the Sunni minority.) As for a “residual” American military presence, the Iraqi Parliament recently passed a resolution demanding that the UN mandate for a U.S. occupation be rescinded.


Even the issue of terrorism is controversial. The American propensity to label as “terrorist” all violent opposition to the occupation means that most Iraqis (57% in August 2007), when asked, support terrorism as defined by the occupiers, since majorities in both the Sunni and Shia communities endorse using violent means to expel the Americans. Hillary Clinton’s ambition that the U.S. must prevent Iraq from becoming a “petri dish for insurgency” (like the President’s stated fear that the country could become the center of an al-Qaedan “caliphate”) will require the forcible suppression of most resistance to the American presence.


As for opposition to Iran, 60% of Iraqi citizens are Shiites, who have strong historic, religious, and economic ties to Iran, and who favor friendly relations with their neighbor. Even Prime Minister Maliki — the Bush administration’s staunchest ally — has repeatedly strengthened political, economic, and even military ties with Iran, causing numerous confrontations with American diplomats and military officials. As long as the Shia dominate national politics, they will oppose the American demand that Iraq support the United States campaign to isolate and control Iran. If the U.S. insists on an ally in its anti-Iran campaign, it must find a way in the next few years to alter these loyalties, as well as Sunni loyalties to the insurgency.


Finally there is that unresolved question of developing Iraqi oil reserves. For four years, Iraqis of all sectarian and political persuasions have (successfully) resisted American attempts to activate the plan first developed by Cheney’s Energy Task Force. They have wielded sabotage of pipelines, strikes by oil workers, and parliamentary maneuvering, among other acts. The vast majority of the population — including a large minority of Kurds and both the Sunni and Shia insurgencies — believes that Iraqi oil should be tightly controlled by the government and therefore support every effort — including in many cases violent resistance — to prevent the activation of any American plan to transfer control of significant aspects of the Iraqi energy industry to foreign companies. Implementation of the U.S. oil proposal therefore will require the long-term suppression of violent and non-violent local resistance, as well as strenuous maneuvering at all levels of government.


Foreigners (Americans Excepted) Not Welcome


This multidimensional opposition to American goals cannot be defeated simply by diplomatic maneuvering or negotiations between Washington and the still largely powerless government inside Baghdad’s Green Zone. The Bush administration has repeatedly gained the support of Prime Minister Maliki and his cabinet for one or another of its crucial goals — most recently for the public announcement that the two governments had agreed that the U.S. would maintain a “long-term troop presence” inside Iraq. Such an embrace is never enough, since the opposition operates at so many levels, and ultimately reaches deep into local communities, where violent and nonviolent resistance results in the sabotage of oil production, attacks on the government for its support of the U.S. presence, and direct attacks on American troops.


Nor can the pursuit of these goals be transferred — any time soon — to an American-trained Iraqi army and police force. All previous attempts at such a transfer have yielded Iraqi units that were reluctant to fight for U.S. goals and could not be trusted unsupervised in the field. The “five year plan” Colonel Bannister mentioned is an acknowledgement that training an Iraqi force that truly supports an American presence and would actively enforce American inspired policies is a distant hope. It would depend on the transformation of Iraqi political attitudes as well as of civic and government institutions that currently resist U.S. demands. It would involve a genuine, successful pacification of the country. In this context, a decline in the fighting and violence in Iraq, both against the Americans and between embittered Iraqi communities, is indeed only a first step.


So surge “success” doesn’t mean withdrawal — yes, some troops will come home slowly — but the rest will have to embed themselves in Iraqi communities for the long haul. This situation was summarized well by Captain Jon Brooks, the commander of Joint Security Station Thrasher in Western Baghdad, one of the small outposts that represent the front lines of the surge strategy. When asked by New Yorker reporter Jon Lee Anderson how long he thought the U.S. would remain in Iraq, he replied, “I’m not just blowing smoke up your ass, but it really depends on what the U.S. civilian-controlled government decides its goals are and what it tells the military to do.”


As long as that government is determined to install a friendly, anti-Iranian regime in Baghdad, one that is hostile to “foreigners,” including all jihadists, but welcomes an ongoing American military presence as well as multinational development of Iraqi oil, the American armed forces aren’t going anywhere, not for a long, long time; and no relative lull in the fighting — temporary or not — will change that reality. This is the Catch-22 of Bush administration policy in Iraq. The worse things go, the more our military is needed; the better they go, the more our military is needed.


did anyone catch how she said "nucular" ? --- OMG
Just gave me that warm McBush feeling all over...
catch ya later, babe.
nm
Anyone else catch the first dance?
Have you ever seen so much love between 2 people? 
He's not "my boy". I only catch him

a couple times a week early in the morning if I can't sleep.


I don't have stocks or bonds, so it's really a moot point. I just need some laughs once in a while over how upset he gets over some things.


Not sure his karma will catch up with him any time soon....
Remember he's got the power that he created backing him.  And yes, I did read that what he did, if he did it as claimed, could be punishable in the extreme.  But of course I think nothing will happen.  I am following this with great interest.  Here's from the AP:

WASHINGTON - For the better part of two years, the word coming out of the Bush White House was that presidential adviser Karl Rove had nothing to do with the leak of a female CIA officer's identity and that whoever did would be fired.




But Bush spokesman Scott McClellan wouldn't repeat those claims Monday in the face of Rove's own lawyer, Robert Luskin, acknowledging the political operative spoke to Matthew Cooper of Time magazine, one of the reporters who disclosed Valerie Plame's name.


McClellan repeatedly said he couldn't comment because the matter is under investigation. When it was pointed out he had commented previously even though the investigation was ongoing, he responded: "I've really said all I'm going to say on it."


_____________


Could it be that the White House has told a LIE????  How many is that now?


So anyway, if you hear any more interesting news on this please share.


 


If anyone can catch Hardball tonight

on MSNBC, there's a wonderful interview with parents of one of the Marines who was killed in the last couple days in Iraq.


These people gave the ultimate sacrifice, and IMHO their voices are very important.


Already been discussed on both boards. Catch up. nm
x
wow did anybody catch the daily show

depended on it.


 


Deliverance, anyone?


Evidently, she did't quite catch your drift.
nm
Hazel is that catch-all eye color,
not brown, not green, not gray, sort of indeterminate (too long a word to put on the driver's license, so they invented hazel.)
Well, at least you have a new catch phrase. Don't wear it out now, ya hear? nm

By any chance, you catch Larry King?
To begin with, I was a pregnant teen and most definitively will be voting for Obama. The other unwed mother poster is voting for Obama too in case you hadn't noticed. Bully, fear and threat tactics are not effective.

His candidacy is alive and well and has nothing to do with this issue and how it is going to play out. Tonight, Larry King's panel were talking this subject up one side and down the other. Every single issue that was raised today in these posts on this board were touched upon....every single one. SP is in the political arena now. Unfortunately, she has put her daughter there too. The issues surrounding this will be politicized. You can't stop this train.
Didn't quite catch the drift of this post.
su
excuse my typos today...I catch them after I post... :) nm

Anyone catch John Kerry's speech last night?

Scathing against McCain.  Fabulous speech.  He echoed some of my thoughts on McCain, about how much he has changed to pander to the base and get the nomination.  Here is a snippet:


 


Candidate McCain now supports the wartime tax cuts that Senator McCain once denounced as immoral. Candidate McCain criticizes Senator McCain’s own climate change bill. Candidate McCain says he would now vote against the immigration bill that Senator McCain wrote. Are you kidding? Talk about being for it before you’re against it.


 


I'm a left-leaning independent who thought I may vote Republican this time around if McCain ran.  Well, he did, and as time went on I could see how much he has changed his positions to pander to the far right and I have lost most of my respect for him.  I'll give him credit for being a veteran and a POW (a point that while it was once a powerful emotional point for him is now abused by him as an excuse for just about everything is sadly becoming a joke of his own making), but candidate McCain is NOT the same as Senator John McCain.  Anyway, great speech by Sen. Kerry.


I especially enjoyed the real refreshing lie I caught him in the other day...did you catch it?
...no, guess not...no one in the media called him on it either.


Here, let me give you a hint. Obama said that all of the conservative and liberal economists agreed that his economy recovery plan was good (or would work, or something like that).


The lie being that "all the conservative economists" part.

That was one, big, fat, honking lie.....no one even blinked and took his word for it.


My DH says there's at least a half dozen conservative economists out there that don't agree with Obama...and yet....if Obama says they do....everyone believes him.


He lies and you don't even know it, he's so smooth about it.....



But some of us know he does...lie that is......he's getting real good at talking both sides of the issues, so that if something does or doesn't come to pass, he can say I told you so....or whatever needs to be said to save his you know whatsis.

I think he's learned a lot from the Clintons lately, don't you?
dont worry, you wont catch on fire when you read them!
i have to go know and pick up my daughter.  I might do some bible thumping on the way to the school, who knows.
We're just trying to catch our breath after laughing over some of the blind right posts (and W. i
nm
Hey, JTBB, did you happen to catch Janene Garofolo last night on Olbermann? sm
Her psychological analysis of Lamebaugh and the type of people who ""follow""him was right on the money!!  I guess there is whole lot of self-loathing going around on this board!!  LOL
If there was........I missed it

Check website for Today show and get the advisor's name - Suze "Orzeman?" somebody.......she has a website, you can get answers there. Watch stock fluctuations.


I must have missed it
But obviously anyone who elected to high office unconstitutionally or illegally should be removed from that office. It would be a crime and should be punished.
Yes, GP, so sad, so bad. Where were you, we missed you...nm
nm
I must have missed that...(sm)
Where is this news?
Has the SC met and I missed it? sm
The only place it has been cleared up is in the minds of the Obamatrons who blindly follow and believe everything the man has to say.
Hey, GP. You were missed.
Where've you been?
WHAT? I missed that one!!

There's just no accountin' for some people's moods!!


I'm sorry....I must have missed

where we blew up the terrorists ship killing soldiers.  I missed where we hijacked their planes and killed thousands and thousands of them in one day and then danced in the street praising Allah.  I missed where we bombed their WTC using a car bomb.  I missed where we beheaded anyone we held prisoner of theirs. 


We aren't doing things to terrorists just for sh!ts and giggles here.  They have been at war with us for a long time.  We finally go to war with them and WE are the bad guys?  How so?  Should we go back in history and put every president on trial for things that happened during the wars?  Cuz there would be several presidents that would be put away if we go that route.  This is war. We do what we have to do to keep Americans safe.  What would you have said if we didn't interrogate these prisoners and LA was hit like they were planning.  Or what about the Brooklyn Bridge they were planning on attacking as well.  What would you think then? 


I know exactly what you would think....you would ridicule Bush for not seeing it coming just like people did with 9/11.  The warnings were there.....he should have known, etc.  Well....Bush did what he did and we found out and stopped those attacks saving American lives and all you guys talk about is how two known terrorists were waterboarded.  Cry me a friggin river.  They are still living and breathing with their heads attached to their bodies which is more than I can say for some Americans they have captured. 


GET A CLUE!  These harsh interrogations saved American lives.  The president is to serve and protect and he did and all you can do is cut him down for keeping YOU safe after 9/11.


I would waterboard a terrorist to keep YOU safe.  Why...because you are my fellow American and I care about YOUR life. 


Do you even remember 9/11?  The phone calls from the people stuck in the building to their spouses to say goodbye.  I sat in front of the TV for a whole week with tears in my eyes each time I heard one of those phone calls saying goodbye.  Or how about the brave people who overtook the plane from the terrorists and plunged to their death.  What about the people who were trapped in the building and jumped to their death?  Do you not remember any of this? 


How in the world can you feel sympathy for anyone who finds joy in what they did to us on 9/11...especially since they want to do more?


You probably missed the map.
//
You missed something...(sm)
the discussion kind of switched over to homosexuality in ancient Greece.  That's why I say historical facts.
Brunson, I think you missed
 the point. Democrat was being I believe satirical and quite humorous at that. No notorized documents or right-wing-approved web sites or links are needed here...and she is right, if Hillary or any other Democrat jaywalks we will hear endless monologue on the moral decay of the left. Chill.
I must have missed the humor in this.

And you must have missed that on a daily basis, the far left have developed a gang mentality where all the usual rules have been thrown aside.  You aren't debating here, you realize?  I could go on, but I won't.  There is no point. 


I think you missed my point. sm
But I think this points out where the disonnect lies between those who understand the deadly threat of what we are fighting against and those who do not.
Wow. Looks like I missed that part.
One blurb just said Bush will speak via satellite and RG was "bumped." Still curious about why. Please post if you hear anything.
Must be lunchtime. Missed you this a.m.
Author of the best one-liners on the board. Keep 'em coming, whenever you get the chance.
And you have missed my point entirely.

Michelle Obama is a career woman herself.  Between her and Obama....they make like 1 million bucks a year.  That isn't all his income....that is hers as well.  She spends time campaigning and traveling to give speeches.  You say SP shouldn't be VP because she has young children.  Here Obama is with young children and nothing is said.  We assume Michelle is with them 24/7.....did Michelle personally call you and tell you that??  I am just saying that this whole argument about not liking SP because she should stay home with her children is just as relevent to argue when it comes to B. Hussein Obama and Michelle Obama and their children.


I refuse to continue to banter back and forth with you about this.  No...I don't know personally if Todd is giving up his career to stay home with the children but I see Michelle doing a he11 of a lot that keeps her away from her and Barry's children. 


You missed the point. I was not just
the people in the path of Ike, I AM in the path of Ike myself. I have small children and animals to worry about and there is no one else but me. You cannot understand what it is like to know that evacuation orders are being called, some voluntary, others mandatory, that the path of the storm changes every 3 or 4 hours and you have to make decisions about whether or not to stay or leave. You either stock up on nonperishibles which go flying off the shelves within hours, board up and hunker down or you board up and get the heck out of Dodge.

All day yesterday and last night, the weather channel was announcing that some mandatory evacs had been called, but NOBODY, including local media outlets, was actually saying which ones they were. My comments were more or less about the lack of media coverage but I am also not apologetic about feeling some resentment toward the herd mentality and worship of one single SKIRT, a word which I intentionally chose because as far as I am concerned, up against 5 million people running for their lives and MY OWN CHILDREN, her comings and goings and all the smut politics that has been surrounding the nonstop media blitz was trivial and insignificant. If it were your home, your car, your chldren and your life, you would get that. What is even more disturbing is the fact that some of you do not even seem to have the capacity to take a single moment out of all this juvenile rhetoric and tit-for-tat outrage to stop and just simply try to put yourselves into somebody elses' shoes. Next to my children, SP is a pipsqueak, a skirt....a NOBODY. Wee needed some HELP and we couldn't get it because of all this stupid nonsense. Don't you get that?
I'm sure you would have missed it since all you are interested in sm
is your own agenda. You can't even listen to anyone else's point of view and all you can respond with is sarcasm.
You missed the point....
I really don't care if it offends you. If McCain and Palin were taking donations from Muslim countries, I would say the same thing. I am just not one who cares for all that politically correct garbage. Where does that get us?

Considering Obama's "buddies" in the middle east, wouldn't surprise me at all if he doesn't have all kinds of donations by "questionable" people/terrorists....wonder why they felt the need to lie about their name? If you can't deal with that.....too bad!!!
You have missed my point entirely.
I have no problem with an African-American president if that person is the right person for the job.  I know there were assassination attempts on white presidents obviously as they all have been white...duh!  I'm just saying that there are plenty of crazy whackos out there......just look at the KKK.....who would do anything to not be ruled by a black man.  The KKK is just pure hatred against blacks.  I'm not saying I believe that or agree with that.  I'm just saying that the risk is higher for Obama because of this bigotry.  I do not wish anything bad to happen to Obama so don't play the race card or call me a racist.  I'm just saying that everyone keeps talking about McCain killing over and dying but no one mentions the fact that Obama could very well be assassinated by some crazy-@ssed KKK groupie.
I think you missed the point here.

Of course the economy is important and on everyone's mind right now.  This is the worst economic fiasco since the Great Depression. 


It's not always about the money. 


Yes you missed something. The point!
Oh, self-proclaimed guru of the message boards. Go back to digging up rocks with your husband.
I must have missed that book
in the bible that calls for voting for McCain/Palin. I'll have to look again.

I believe Jesus was a radical, but I still don't see where he calls for a specific candidate.
Gee....you must have missed the chapters
about Babylon and you must have not read the whole book of Revelations.
p.s....missed you, sam....glad to see you...:-)

WELCOME BACK SAM!!!!! You have been missed..by me at least. nm
nm
I might have missed that thread but I...
didn't miss the thread of negativity in your posts.
Welcome back GP...You were missed. nm
nm
I think you missed the part where I said...
*and I do believe in making stipulations for how that money is spent.*
You obviously missed the point. (sm)

While this legislation is targeted at abortion, it doesn't actually say abortion.  It says "procedures."  Given it's broad language it can be translated into any type of procedure.


But lets take this scenario into consideration.  Girl gets pregnant and wants to have the baby.  Girl's health is at risk if she has the baby.  Doctor does not believe in abortion at all, so does not have to give that patient the option of abortion.  Get the picture yet?  It's not all about abortion.  It's about limiting health care in general.