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excuse my typos today...I catch them after I post... :) nm

Posted By: Democrat on 2007-02-12
In Reply to: This is my first time hearing protestors against the Iraqi war...sm - Democrat




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Didn't quite catch the drift of this post.
su
Excuse me, I misread your post. Sorry...nm

Excuse me, but you will not dictate whether or not I include articles in my post.

I post articles here in order to encourage a debate about the articles.  In your limited Israel-is-always-right-and-anyone-who-questions-that-is-worthy-of-a-rabid-attack attitude, you can't see that and once again wish to control everything, even how people communicate with each other.


All you want to do is tear down, not build anything.  I gave my reasons for posting this article.  In those reasons I expressed some skepticism about Hezbollah's sincerity.  Instead of offering an intelligent response to those reasons, you once again slammed the door of dialogue and showed that your abilities to communicate are so limited that all you can do is berate and insult.  To call me anti-American only highlights your ignorance.  I am absolutely pro-American, and I'm very fearful where President Bush is leading us.  It's the duty of every American to question what he or she sees as failures or inadequacies in the administration that is in power regardless of party affiliation.  I felt the same way during the Clinton administration, and I feel the same way now.


If I were to come on here and say that Hezbollah is rebuilding Lebanon and now the Bush administration wants to compete with them, I would get responses that demand I provide my source, and rightly so.  That is the reason I post the entire article itself.  I want to gauge if it brings the same questions to the minds of other (repeat once again) LIBERALS as it does to me.


You're free to have your opinion of me, but you come off as pompous and controlling, demanding that everyone bow down and kiss Israel's feet.  The mere suggestion that Israel may be even slightly wrong elicits anger and rage from you, and you have shown that repeatedly.


No, you are not obligated to engage in debate with anyone here, but don't whine and complain that you're unable to when someone offers you the opportunity.  Your failure to do so when invited only proves how angry and full of rage you are.


For the record, I have never said you were sent to shut down the board.  It's laughable to even imagine you have the power to do that.  You are no more important or influential than I am or than any other poster on this board is.  Get over yourself already.


And, no, I have no idea which sentence of the original article you find disturbing.  I personally found several of them disturbing, but I refuse to engage in any guessing games with you.


Am I paranoid?  I sure am these days.  I'm pro-peace and I'm living in a country run by a President who is trigger happy and who has done nothing but incite the world.


If looking at Israel objectively is anti-Israel according to your definition, then so be it.  You said previously on this board that just because Israel didn't bother to send any troops to Iraq didn't mean they're an ally.  Please enlighten me.  With the BILLIONS of dollars we give Israel every year, along with weapons, we are definitely an ally to Israel.  Please explain how Israel is an ally to us.  Is it because they grace us with their agreement to take our money and then spy on us?  (I could post a number of articles regarding the spying, but since you don't like it when I do that, feel free to Google it on your own.)  What have they done for us in return?


I have always believed Israel was the underdog in the Middle East and have always favored them.  This is the first time I have ever questioned their actions.  We here in America still have freedom of thought and speech, whether you like it or not.  You know nothing of me, including how I believe.  Your assessment of me is not only wrong, it's absurd and only proves how you interact with people who disagree.  I am very relieved that you are not representative of all Israelis, as it gives me a small sense of hope. 


I doubt your sincerity in stating that I'm not worth the time to answer, considering all the time you spent doing just that.  Another example of your hypocrisy.  No doubt you will waste your time once again responding to this with more hatred and insults, only this time I will let you have the last word, since you are now no longer worth the time it takes to respond.


Excuse me. All I did was post a link to a CBS news story
the ideas you brought up in your original post trying to imply that O's AG nominee was somehow responsible for the 9/11 attacks. I think that kind of inaccurate accusation deserves some sort of defense. You evidently have a tough time digesting data that in any way contradicts your thinking, so now we have gotten to the place where I am a pouncing, bug-squashing know-it-all who slaughters innocent insects with my windshield? For posting a link to a reputable news article written directly in the aftermath of 9/11 (YEARS before Mr. Holder's nomination). Really? Don't you think you may be over-reacting just a tad?
Thanks for the post, here's some more info from today

Here's a snippet from a piece on CNN from today.  It's an interview with John Dean.  He points out that this Rove thing is not all that simple and there may be other things involved than just outing a CIA agent.


DOBBS: In a perhaps bizarre piece, it appears that Time magazine leaked some material to Newsweek magazine. I can't say that for certain, but it appears that way. The fact is: It's unclear whether what Karl Rove may or may not have done here is even illegal.


DEAN: That's right. It isn't clear.


DOBBS: What's your sense of that?


DEAN: We can't tell on the facts we have alone whether we have a law that's been violated or which laws have been violated. The attention is focused on the CIA Identities Protection Act and that hasn't really been my concern.


I think probably the lawyers involved in this case are looking at the other potential concerns. You take the prima facie facts we have and this could very well be a couple statutes that are involved with Mr. Rove.


He could be, well, converting government information to his own political uses and putting it out, and that is a violation of the law. It could be the statute that got a lot of those of us involved in Watergate, which is if he is conspiring with others to do what he's not being paid as a government employee to do, which it would be in this instance, to leak information for political purposes. That in turn, could be a violation as well.


DOBBS: Effectively, fraud and conspiracy.


DEAN: Yes.


Bd has 1 post today. Slam has

. .  . oh, who cares enough to count!!


 


You're a tad early in your post. It's still 17 days today..
ho hum....boring....
Just today....and theboard is dominated by people piling on me every time I post.
What you don't like is anyone who disagrees with you. Sounds a whole lot more like Nazism than American democracy. But I don't suppose a socialist party would recognize that.
Typos and mistakes - sorry

I meant to spell *neocons* - sorry.


I also meant to say that Charles Shumer tried to pass a bill trying to fix the deplorable 5% of INSPECTED shipments that enter our ports daily and raise that percentage with the introduction of new technology that would enable most, if not all, shipments to be inspected for deadly substances.  The Republicans, who hold the majority vote, wanted nothing to do with that.


I apologize for any other errors I made.  I'm still not up to par after being discharged from the hospital recently.


oops - some typos
I meant she does not consider people who do service-oriented jobs as human beings (otherwise she would not have made the comment that she is going to start considering the cleaning lady as a real person).
I would have to put her (yeah I had some typos)...(sm)
in the same class as Palin and Hasselbeck --- intellectually disabled. 
Sorry bout the two typos
My fingers flew as my anger rose and I didn't proofread before sending. Still am miffed and the mindset of some people!
They are anal about typos and stuff, Rep. sm
It messes up their notebooks.  When challenged they have two strategies:  Call you a liar or say you aren't worth their time to argue with. Pretty consistent and predictable. 
Typos and grammar gaffes.
nm
I don't know how I do my job ... so many typos on off time! Now vs not. No message
:)
for smsg: Do you want to tell me that you never make typos?
Everybody has, in some way, his own writing style.

How can you say I am making the same "typos again", how can this be, typos are not 'intentional,' you see what garbage you are talking, brainless stuff.
You just have a small brain that's all.

And, wow, I must say, you really are 'wathcing and hiding,' even people on this forum?
What makes you think that all wha you mentioned applies to one and the same person?
Are you tracking and following posters in the board around and make your ridiculous assumptions?

Why don't you tell me something about yourself, e.g. what are you doing on this forum except following and tracing comments of various posters and insulting them?

The truth, for a change?
Preferred spelling is apropos. Nitpicking typos
Distraction politics won't either and it is a crushing bore.
catch - you know what I mean -

Iraq's Catch 22

Came across this earlier ~ My sentiments from another's pen.  Found on the Independent's web site.


Catch 22 in Iraq
Why American Troops Can’t Go Home


by Michael Schwartz


Every week or so, the Department of Defense conducts a video-conference press briefing for reporters in Washington, featuring an on-the-ground officer in Iraq. On November 15th, that briefing was with Col. Jeffrey Bannister, commander of the Second Brigade of the Second Infantry Division. He was chosen because of his unit’s successful application of surge tactics in three mainly Shia districts in eastern Baghdad. He had, among other things, set up several outposts in these districts offering a 24-hour American military presence; he had also made generous use of transportable concrete walls meant to separate and partition neighborhoods, and had established numerous checkpoints to prevent unauthorized entry or exit from these communities.


As Col. Bannister summed up the situation:



“We have been effective, and we’ve seen violence significantly reduced as our Iraqi security forces have taken a larger role in all aspects of operations, and we are starting to see harmony between Sunni and Shi’a alike.”


The briefing seemed uneventful — very much a reflection of the ongoing mood of the moment among American commanders in Iraq — and received no significant media coverage. However, there was news lurking in an answer Col. Bannister gave to a question from AP reporter Pauline Jelinek (about arming volunteer local citizens to patrol their neighborhoods), even if it passed unnoticed. The colonel made a remarkable reference to an unexplained “five-year plan” that, he indicated, was guiding his actions. Here was his answer in full:



“I mean, right now we’re focused just on security augmentation [by the volunteers] and growing them to be Iraqi police because that is where the gap is that we’re trying to help fill capacity for in the Iraqi security forces. The army and the national police, I mean, they’re fine. The Iraqi police is — you know, the five-year plan has — you know, it’s doubling in size. … [We expect to have] 4,000 Iraqi police on our side over the five-year plan.


“So that’s kind of what we’re doing. We’re helping on security now, growing them into IP [Iraqi police]…. They’ll have 650 slots that I fill in March, and over the five-year period we’ll grow up to another 2,500 or 3,500.


Most astonishing in his comments is the least astonishing word in our language: “the.” Colonel Bannister refers repeatedly to “the five-year plan,” assuming his audience understands that there is indeed a master plan for his unit — and for the American occupation — mandating a slow, many-year buildup of neighborhood-protection forces into full fledged police units. This, in turn, is all part of an even larger plan for the conduct of the occupation.


Included in this implicit understanding is the further assumption that Col. Bannister’s unit, or some future replacement unit, will be occupying these areas of eastern Baghdad for that five-year period until that 4,000 man police force is finally fully developed.


Staying the Course, Any Course


A recent Washington Post political cartoon by Tom Toles captured the irony and tragedy of this “five-year plan.” A big sign on the White House lawn has the message “We can’t leave Iraq because it’s going…” and a workman is adjusting a dial from “Badly” to “Well.”


This cartoon raises the relevant question: If things are “going well” in Iraq, then why aren’t American troops being withdrawn? This is a point raised persuasively by Robert Dreyfuss in a recent Tomdispatch post in which he argues that the decline in three major forms of violence (car bombs, death-squad executions, and roadside IEDs) should be the occasion for a reduction, and then withdrawal, of the American military presence. But, as Dreyfuss notes, the Bush administration has no intention of organizing such a withdrawal; nor, it seems, does the Democratic Party leadership — as indicated by their refusal to withhold funding for the war, and by the promises of the leading presidential candidates to maintain significant levels of American troops in Iraq, at least through any first term in office.


The question that emerges is why stay this course? If violence has been reduced by more than 50%, why not begin to withdraw significant numbers of troops in preparation for a complete withdrawal? The answer can be stated simply: A reduction in the violence does not mean that things are “going well,” only that they are going “less badly.”


You can tell things can’t be going well if your best-case plan is for an armed occupation force to remain in a major Baghdad community for the next five years. It means that the underlying causes of disorder are not being addressed. You can tell things are not going well if five more years are needed to train and activate a local police force, when police training takes about six months. (Consider this an indication that the recruits exhibit loyalties and goals that run contrary to those of the American military.) You can tell things are not going well when communities have to be surrounded by cement walls and checkpoints that naturally disrupt normal life, including work, school, and daily shopping. These are all signs that escalating discontent and protest may require new suppressive actions in the not-so-distant future.


The American military is well aware of this. They keep reminding us that the present decline in violence may be temporary, nothing more than a brief window of opportunity that could be used to resolve some of the “political problems” facing Iraq before the violence can be reinvigorated. The current surge — even “the five year plan” — is not designed to solve Iraq’s problems, just to hold down the violence while others, in theory, act.


What Does the Bush Administration Want in Iraq?


What are the political problems that require resolution? The typical mainstream media version of these problems makes them out to be uniquely Iraqi in nature. They stem — so the story goes — from deeply engrained friction among Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds, frustrating all efforts to resolve matters like the distribution of political power and oil revenues. In this version, the Americans are (usually inept) mediators in Iraqi disputes and are fated to remain in Iraq only because the Bush administration has little choice but to establish relatively peaceful and equitable solutions to these disputes before seriously considering leaving.


By now, however, most of us realize that there is much more to the American purpose in Iraq than a commitment to an elected government in Baghdad that could peacefully resolve sectarian tensions. The rhetoric of the Bush administration and its chief democratic opponents (most notably Senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama) is increasingly laced with references — to quote Clinton — to “vital national security interests” in the Middle East that will require a continuing “military as well as political mission.” In Iraq, leading Washington politicians of both parties agree on the necessity of establishing a friendly government that will welcome the presence of a “residual” American military force, oppose Iran’s regional aspirations, and prevent the country from becoming “a petri dish for insurgents.”


Let’s be clear about those “vital national security interests.” America’s vital interests in the Middle East derive from the region’s status as the world’s principle source of oil. President Jimmy Carter enunciated exactly this principle back in 1980 when he promulgated the Carter Doctrine, stating that the U.S. was willing to use “any means necessary, including military force,” to maintain access to supplies of Middle Eastern oil sufficient to keep the global economy running smoothly. All subsequent presidents have reiterated, amplified, and acted on this principle.


The Bush administration, in applying the Carter Doctrine, was faced with the need to access increasing amounts of Middle Eastern oil in light of constantly escalating world energy consumption. In 2001, Vice-President Cheney’s Energy Task Force responded to this challenge by designating Iraq as the linchpin in a general plan to double Middle Eastern oil production in the following years. It was reasonable, task force members decided, to hope for a genuine spurt in production in Iraq, whose oil industry had remained essentially stagnant (or worse) from 1980 to that moment. By ousting the backward-looking regime of Saddam Hussein and transferring the further development, production, and distribution of Iraq’s bounteous oil reserves to multinational oil companies, they would assure the introduction of modern methods of production, ample investment capital, and an aggressive urge to increase output. Indeed, after removing Saddam via invasion in 2003, the Bush administration has made repeated (if so far unsuccessful) efforts to implement this plan.


The desire for such an endpoint has hardly disappeared. It became increasingly clear, however, that successful implementation of such plans would, at best, take many years, and that the maintenance of a powerful American political and military presence within Iraq was a necessary prerequisite to everything else. Since sustaining such a presence was itself a major problem, however, it also became clear that America’s plans depended on dislodging powerful forces entrenched in all levels of Iraqi society — from public opinion to elected leaders to the insurgency itself.


American ambitions — far more than sectarian tensions — constitute the irresolvable core of Iraq’s political problems. The overwhelming majority of Iraqis oppose the occupation. They wish the Americans gone and a regime in place in Baghdad that is not an American ally. (This is true whether you are considering the Shiite majority or the Sunni minority.) As for a “residual” American military presence, the Iraqi Parliament recently passed a resolution demanding that the UN mandate for a U.S. occupation be rescinded.


Even the issue of terrorism is controversial. The American propensity to label as “terrorist” all violent opposition to the occupation means that most Iraqis (57% in August 2007), when asked, support terrorism as defined by the occupiers, since majorities in both the Sunni and Shia communities endorse using violent means to expel the Americans. Hillary Clinton’s ambition that the U.S. must prevent Iraq from becoming a “petri dish for insurgency” (like the President’s stated fear that the country could become the center of an al-Qaedan “caliphate”) will require the forcible suppression of most resistance to the American presence.


As for opposition to Iran, 60% of Iraqi citizens are Shiites, who have strong historic, religious, and economic ties to Iran, and who favor friendly relations with their neighbor. Even Prime Minister Maliki — the Bush administration’s staunchest ally — has repeatedly strengthened political, economic, and even military ties with Iran, causing numerous confrontations with American diplomats and military officials. As long as the Shia dominate national politics, they will oppose the American demand that Iraq support the United States campaign to isolate and control Iran. If the U.S. insists on an ally in its anti-Iran campaign, it must find a way in the next few years to alter these loyalties, as well as Sunni loyalties to the insurgency.


Finally there is that unresolved question of developing Iraqi oil reserves. For four years, Iraqis of all sectarian and political persuasions have (successfully) resisted American attempts to activate the plan first developed by Cheney’s Energy Task Force. They have wielded sabotage of pipelines, strikes by oil workers, and parliamentary maneuvering, among other acts. The vast majority of the population — including a large minority of Kurds and both the Sunni and Shia insurgencies — believes that Iraqi oil should be tightly controlled by the government and therefore support every effort — including in many cases violent resistance — to prevent the activation of any American plan to transfer control of significant aspects of the Iraqi energy industry to foreign companies. Implementation of the U.S. oil proposal therefore will require the long-term suppression of violent and non-violent local resistance, as well as strenuous maneuvering at all levels of government.


Foreigners (Americans Excepted) Not Welcome


This multidimensional opposition to American goals cannot be defeated simply by diplomatic maneuvering or negotiations between Washington and the still largely powerless government inside Baghdad’s Green Zone. The Bush administration has repeatedly gained the support of Prime Minister Maliki and his cabinet for one or another of its crucial goals — most recently for the public announcement that the two governments had agreed that the U.S. would maintain a “long-term troop presence” inside Iraq. Such an embrace is never enough, since the opposition operates at so many levels, and ultimately reaches deep into local communities, where violent and nonviolent resistance results in the sabotage of oil production, attacks on the government for its support of the U.S. presence, and direct attacks on American troops.


Nor can the pursuit of these goals be transferred — any time soon — to an American-trained Iraqi army and police force. All previous attempts at such a transfer have yielded Iraqi units that were reluctant to fight for U.S. goals and could not be trusted unsupervised in the field. The “five year plan” Colonel Bannister mentioned is an acknowledgement that training an Iraqi force that truly supports an American presence and would actively enforce American inspired policies is a distant hope. It would depend on the transformation of Iraqi political attitudes as well as of civic and government institutions that currently resist U.S. demands. It would involve a genuine, successful pacification of the country. In this context, a decline in the fighting and violence in Iraq, both against the Americans and between embittered Iraqi communities, is indeed only a first step.


So surge “success” doesn’t mean withdrawal — yes, some troops will come home slowly — but the rest will have to embed themselves in Iraqi communities for the long haul. This situation was summarized well by Captain Jon Brooks, the commander of Joint Security Station Thrasher in Western Baghdad, one of the small outposts that represent the front lines of the surge strategy. When asked by New Yorker reporter Jon Lee Anderson how long he thought the U.S. would remain in Iraq, he replied, “I’m not just blowing smoke up your ass, but it really depends on what the U.S. civilian-controlled government decides its goals are and what it tells the military to do.”


As long as that government is determined to install a friendly, anti-Iranian regime in Baghdad, one that is hostile to “foreigners,” including all jihadists, but welcomes an ongoing American military presence as well as multinational development of Iraqi oil, the American armed forces aren’t going anywhere, not for a long, long time; and no relative lull in the fighting — temporary or not — will change that reality. This is the Catch-22 of Bush administration policy in Iraq. The worse things go, the more our military is needed; the better they go, the more our military is needed.


Yes, but missed it. Will try to catch it during
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
did anyone catch how she said "nucular" ? --- OMG
Just gave me that warm McBush feeling all over...
catch ya later, babe.
nm
Anyone else catch the first dance?
Have you ever seen so much love between 2 people? 
He's not "my boy". I only catch him

a couple times a week early in the morning if I can't sleep.


I don't have stocks or bonds, so it's really a moot point. I just need some laughs once in a while over how upset he gets over some things.


Not sure his karma will catch up with him any time soon....
Remember he's got the power that he created backing him.  And yes, I did read that what he did, if he did it as claimed, could be punishable in the extreme.  But of course I think nothing will happen.  I am following this with great interest.  Here's from the AP:

WASHINGTON - For the better part of two years, the word coming out of the Bush White House was that presidential adviser Karl Rove had nothing to do with the leak of a female CIA officer's identity and that whoever did would be fired.




But Bush spokesman Scott McClellan wouldn't repeat those claims Monday in the face of Rove's own lawyer, Robert Luskin, acknowledging the political operative spoke to Matthew Cooper of Time magazine, one of the reporters who disclosed Valerie Plame's name.


McClellan repeatedly said he couldn't comment because the matter is under investigation. When it was pointed out he had commented previously even though the investigation was ongoing, he responded: "I've really said all I'm going to say on it."


_____________


Could it be that the White House has told a LIE????  How many is that now?


So anyway, if you hear any more interesting news on this please share.


 


If anyone can catch Hardball tonight

on MSNBC, there's a wonderful interview with parents of one of the Marines who was killed in the last couple days in Iraq.


These people gave the ultimate sacrifice, and IMHO their voices are very important.


Already been discussed on both boards. Catch up. nm
x
wow did anybody catch the daily show

depended on it.


 


Deliverance, anyone?


Evidently, she did't quite catch your drift.
nm
Hazel is that catch-all eye color,
not brown, not green, not gray, sort of indeterminate (too long a word to put on the driver's license, so they invented hazel.)
Well, at least you have a new catch phrase. Don't wear it out now, ya hear? nm

By any chance, you catch Larry King?
To begin with, I was a pregnant teen and most definitively will be voting for Obama. The other unwed mother poster is voting for Obama too in case you hadn't noticed. Bully, fear and threat tactics are not effective.

His candidacy is alive and well and has nothing to do with this issue and how it is going to play out. Tonight, Larry King's panel were talking this subject up one side and down the other. Every single issue that was raised today in these posts on this board were touched upon....every single one. SP is in the political arena now. Unfortunately, she has put her daughter there too. The issues surrounding this will be politicized. You can't stop this train.
Anyone catch John Kerry's speech last night?

Scathing against McCain.  Fabulous speech.  He echoed some of my thoughts on McCain, about how much he has changed to pander to the base and get the nomination.  Here is a snippet:


 


Candidate McCain now supports the wartime tax cuts that Senator McCain once denounced as immoral. Candidate McCain criticizes Senator McCain’s own climate change bill. Candidate McCain says he would now vote against the immigration bill that Senator McCain wrote. Are you kidding? Talk about being for it before you’re against it.


 


I'm a left-leaning independent who thought I may vote Republican this time around if McCain ran.  Well, he did, and as time went on I could see how much he has changed his positions to pander to the far right and I have lost most of my respect for him.  I'll give him credit for being a veteran and a POW (a point that while it was once a powerful emotional point for him is now abused by him as an excuse for just about everything is sadly becoming a joke of his own making), but candidate McCain is NOT the same as Senator John McCain.  Anyway, great speech by Sen. Kerry.


I especially enjoyed the real refreshing lie I caught him in the other day...did you catch it?
...no, guess not...no one in the media called him on it either.


Here, let me give you a hint. Obama said that all of the conservative and liberal economists agreed that his economy recovery plan was good (or would work, or something like that).


The lie being that "all the conservative economists" part.

That was one, big, fat, honking lie.....no one even blinked and took his word for it.


My DH says there's at least a half dozen conservative economists out there that don't agree with Obama...and yet....if Obama says they do....everyone believes him.


He lies and you don't even know it, he's so smooth about it.....



But some of us know he does...lie that is......he's getting real good at talking both sides of the issues, so that if something does or doesn't come to pass, he can say I told you so....or whatever needs to be said to save his you know whatsis.

I think he's learned a lot from the Clintons lately, don't you?
dont worry, you wont catch on fire when you read them!
i have to go know and pick up my daughter.  I might do some bible thumping on the way to the school, who knows.
We're just trying to catch our breath after laughing over some of the blind right posts (and W. i
nm
Hey, JTBB, did you happen to catch Janene Garofolo last night on Olbermann? sm
Her psychological analysis of Lamebaugh and the type of people who ""follow""him was right on the money!!  I guess there is whole lot of self-loathing going around on this board!!  LOL
Excuse me.....

How can it be easy enough to prove with ISP numbers if the ISP numbers are not available?  Yes, I may be blowing this out of proportion but you seem to be contradicting yourself and your posts, as well as some others did raise the specter (sp?) of this being a nonsecure website.


I do know such outings' with a lot more info that just ISP numbers have occurred on other political forums, i.e., proteswarrior.com (although I am bracing myself right now for the retaliation this mention will bring from right-wingers).


Golly, I kind of feel like this forum is in the midst of being hijacked by the conservative in-your-face folks somewhat. 


Excuse me, but I'm AO.

You are careless.  Even a small brain like mine can see there are major differences in gt and ao's writing styles.  Check it out.  Besides, we don't even live in the same part of the country.  I'm sure the administrator can verify that for you if it makes an important difference in your life.


Also, AO is not Another Observer, in case that was your next accusation.  See, there's more than one of us out here. 


Excuse me but it should have said *did not*

Geesh, I forgot that this forum doesn't like apostrophes.  Do you ever make a mistake?  I don't make fun of people's typos, but evidently because you can't stick to the subject or respond directly to my post without calling names it's just a rabbit trail to discredit me.  You know, whatever, you've proven that you're not worth my time.


See ya...


Excuse me, but it's a law. sm
She was asked to comply by the police and she IGNORED THEM.  She is not above the law.  None of us are.  Everyone should be concerned about this behavior.  Bush had nothing to do with it!  My gosh, the things you say.
Excuse me.
If you don't want my opinions then don't read them. It's that simple.

Sorry I dared to enter your high and mighty world. I'll leave you to your hate.
Excuse me, but yes you did. sm

I usually don't post here, but here is what you said below.  You have posted on our board, so I am posting here.  By the way, your temper tantrums and attacks are not doing anyone any favors.  Not an attack but an observation. Here is what you said below. 


 


*The neocons, of course, can't have this, so they send our threads to people like you to crash the liberal board, utilizing their very own name calling and intimidation tactics.  They never gave a hoot about Israel in the past, but suddenly they see Israel as their new best friend.  They're winking at God and saying, See?  We're on Israel's side now and won't be one of the groups against Israel, so bring on the Rapture.  We've secured our place with God.  The Rapture Index has indicated it's fasten your seatbelt time and they can't wait.*


 


As far as for the rest of what you have said, most of us have always been on Israel's side.  You are showing how really and truly uninformed you are by statements like this.


Excuse me.....
the first settlers were not slave owners and came here for religious freedom. The founding fathers were deeply seated in Christianity. The country WAS founded on those principles. However, others came who did not ascribe to those principles, just as there are those who do not ascribe to those principles now. May I also remind you that slavery was introduced here by Dutch traders who bought slaves in Africa and brought them to America...much later. And who sold those slaves to Dutch traders? I believe it was other Africans, who enslaved and sold their own people. The original colonists at first got along with the Indians. It was much later, in the plains, where the near annihilation as you call it occurred. All during that time were present the Christian missionaries who tried to intervene, were often killed for it, by whites and Indians alike. I am Choctaw, I am descended from the indigenous peoples. Indians also killed and enslaved one another. It is not an *American* invention. And...who said I was painting anything as *rosy?* My point was, and still is, and is borne out daily, that the further you travel from Christian principles the more acceptable killing, slavery, and all other ill of the world becomes. Turning the blind eye so to speak. And it is generalizations like you state above, that the entire country is responsible for what a few did...it is that kind of mindset, like the other poster who thinks *Republicans* need to be destroyed. That kind of generalization is dangerous. Blaming an entire country, an entire group of people, for what a few do is not realistic. Not everyone in the country condoned everything. All through history you will see Christians spoke out against slavery, spoke out against what was happening with the Indians, spoke out against segregation, spoke out against abortion, and on and on and on. Perhap I should stop saying *this country* and say *the people in it.* *This country* was founded on Christian principles, and for a long time for the most part most of the people in it followed those principles. As time went on, fewer did. And somehow, the tide has completely turned and Christians are the enemy. But, I do stand corrected. America, the concept of America, has not chnaged. But the people in it most certainly have.
Excuse me again...
See my responses below.

You said: You need to read up on your history of this country.

I say: Right back at you. And you need to look deeply into books published 100 years ago as well as ones published in this century so you get the whole picture.


You said: Why does it matter what the origins of slavery were? The fact is, most of the founding fathers either owned slaves or families' had owned slaves. Washington owned hundreds of slaves, although he freed them as part of his will upon his death.

I say: I never said the founding fathers did not hold slaves. Re-read my post. I said that the original colonists did not hold slaves, and they did not. Jamestown was settled in 1607...slaves were introduced to this country around 1640, several years later. That is the truth and that is what I said. What matters about the origins of slavery is you want to condemn this country for holding slaves. I don't see you railing against Africa for starting the slave trade...if no slaves to sell, none would be bought. If you are going to rail against something, rail at the source. That is like blaming the school child for taking the drugs the dealer sold him.

You said: What do you mean, slavery came much later. Later than what?


I say: See my answer above.

You said: This country still condoned slavery for 100 years.

I say: Please do not say *this country condoned* because this country as a whole did NOT *condone.* Huge numbers of people did not own slaves. You know that. Only the more well to do folks could afford it. And through the years several thousand people did speak out about it and did what they could, and in case it escaped your attention, we finally fought a civil war in which one of the principles was to abolish slavery.

You sid:
As far as the founding fathers and our rights we protect here's some info:

It's important to differentiate the Constitution that the Founding Fathers cooked up from the Bill of Rights. Today when we think of the protections of the American system, we usually think of the shining example of ethics and goodness contained in the Bill of Rights. These are the first ten amendments to the Constitution. They are primarily the work of George Mason (1725-1792). He would have been a Founding Father because he was a delegate to the convention from Virginia, but he refused to sign the Constitution. He realized that it failed to protect individual liberties and failed to oppose slavery.

I say:
Excuse me, yet again, but isn't this the same George Mason who himself held slaves? Yes, he did. What he did was speak out about the slave trade, but he did not give up the slaves he already had. Don't know if he released them upon his death or not, like Washington did. He was holding slaves at the time he was criticizing the practice. Pardon me if I do not see that as the height of hypocrisy. And you are wrong,because the Constitution did not address slavery is NOT one of the reasons he did not sign it. You are correct that he did not sign it because he did not feel it addressed individual freedoms; but, in fact, he spoke OUT against including mention of slavery in the Constitution (probably because he owned slaves himself). Get your facts straight.

I can find no mention at all of the founding fathers lobbying against the Bill of Rights. Please supply me with the historical references.

You said: Mr. Mason lobbied against adoption of the Constitution just as many of the Founding Fathers lobbied against the Bill of Rights. Most of the Founding Fathers disapproved of giving ordinary citizens such liberties as freedom of religion, freedom from unreasonable search and torture, the right of free speech and so forth. In fact, when John Adams (1735-1826) was president (1797-1801), he took away freedom of speech.

I say: Well, what John Adams did then is no different than what the Democrats are trying to do now in shutting down talk radio. Same song, second verse. Get after them with equal zeal, I challenge you.

You said:
The Bill of Rights is really the people's voice against the Founding Fathers; liberty against conformity.

I say:
You are very liberal with your interpretation.

_________



You said:
As far as the Native American disgrace/slaughter, all I can say is you have an interesting viewpoint that is not shared by many indigenous. Bhoo-zhoo.

I say:
It is shared by many more than you are aware. But remember my friend...we are still entitled to our opinion, whether or not it agrees with yours. Question for you: if you still hold such emnity today, hundreds of years later, what could be done about it? You cannot turn back time. Most tribes are doing very well, have their own lands, pay no federal taxes on those lands, and are among some of the more well-to-do among us. If the Nation does not share that wealth properly with the tribe, then the people should take it up with the Nation, which many of us are doing. Native Americans did not just suffer at the hands of white men. They have also suffered a great deal at the hands of their own, and that has nothing to do with this country and everything to do with human beings. There are the good and bad among us, always have been, always will be...in every culture, every population, until the end of time. And dwelling in the past does nothing to help. Learn from the past, yes; but do not dwell there.

And try to get your information from several sources. Study for yourself, research for yourself. I learned long ago that is necessary.

Excuse me....
Thou shalt not kill - there is a federal law against murder. Thou shalt not steal - there is a federal law against stealing...you will have to do better than separation of church and state. That being said, the words "separation of church and state" are not in the Constitution. It says that there shall be no state-sponsored religion. To my knowledge there is no religion called United States of America. Did that happen while I wasn't looking? Funny to me that the government can pull many laws right out of the Bible, but come to one that that doesn't suit the more liberal ones among us and they start yelling separation of church and state. Go figure.

That being said, most of the laws on the books today have "religious wacko" origins. This country was founded by "religious wackos," or was that missed in history class? Oh yes, I forgot...the more liberal among us stopped teaching that inconvenient truth. However, one can still do searches and read the original writings of the founding fathers...if one is really interested in the truth.

What would folks like in place of "religious wacko" laws? Just let everyone do whatever they want...kill you if you are annoying or a burden to them? Kill you if you are no longer wanted? Steal from you if you have something they want and can't afford to buy for themselves? America was basically a ""Christian theocracy in its infancy, meaning the basic laws all came straight from the Bible. It was also a democracy...the two are not mutually exclusive. And there it goes again, lumping Christians and any other religious group into one group of "religious wackos." Extremely divisive and unnecessary. And, it looks to me like it is not the "religious wackos" on this site who are going bananas when someone doesn't agree with them....
Excuse me?

Excuse me but I do not believe

I bashed SAHMs.  I think it should be a personal decision and one should not be looked down upon if they choose to work or choose to stay home.  You have no right to bash her any more than she has right to bash you for staying home.  I work out of my home because my husband and I need this extra income I bring in.  My sister-in-law stays home with her kids and my brother works his @ss off trying to support them and he hardly ever gets to see his kids because he is supporting his family.  He wants to spend more time with them but he cannot.  So why is it fair for him to never see his kids to support his family working 2 jobs?  My mom stayed at home and I hardly ever saw my dad because he was working to support us.  Don't you think that sucked with me never seeing my dad or was that okay because my mom was there.  If my sister-in-law would get a job, my brother wouldn't have to work 2 jobs and he could see his kids more.  If my mom would have worked, my dad wouldn't have had to work that OT and I would have seen him more. 


It is great that you can stay at home if that is what you choose to do, but don't bash others for their choice.  It isn't like SP is up and walking out of the door to never see her kids again and they do have Todd Palin, their dad, to be with them.


Excuse me, but I think that

"Divine and perfect order" originates in God and only God. 


Excuse you. lol. nm
nm
Any excuse at all

Black Republican Activist Bob Parks predicts riots will ensue if Obama wins or loses the election.


Parks, a syndicated writer, talk show host, and Republican activist, lists his reasons in the video, Obama’s America: Win or Lose, as to why he believes an Obama loss would mean “things could get ugly on a grand scale” or that an Obama win would give ‘”punks” the “greatest of reasons” to take to the streets:


“Now what occasionally happens when a city’s team wins a championship? We have riots! There’s looting, hooliganism, vandalism, drunk and disorderliness, assaults, and sometimes injury or death, and this wouldn’t be about one single city. Can you imagine the potential for nationwide rioting by punks, looking an excuse and now having the greatest of reasons to do so?”