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If anyone can catch Hardball tonight

Posted By: MTME on 2005-08-04
In Reply to:

on MSNBC, there's a wonderful interview with parents of one of the Marines who was killed in the last couple days in Iraq.


These people gave the ultimate sacrifice, and IMHO their voices are very important.




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Hardball
Reporter said Palin being surrounded by Bush press handlers to control her exposure to press.  Achtung, baby.
I watched Hardball too
I saw the gentleman that you are talking about. I almost can't watch those shows anymore because it is so scary. I have a feeling that the candidates will have to discuss this issue more and more as the time goes by. Our economy is on the verge of very big trouble and the rising gas prices are a significant part of that. Hopefully, people will start demanding that the candidates come up with a plan.
That's why they call it Hardball....
The guests are well aware what they are in for by agreeing to go on his show - I wouldn't want to debate him, I know that!  Actually, the ratings of Olberman and Matthews is what keeps them on the air - they have the highest.
Hardball - Christopher Hitchens

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/  Click on Marching Towards War with Iran (but a perfect appetizer for this clip is the interview with Katherine Harris).


I was struck by one comment by Hitchens, below.  I've placed blanks where I felt another name could have been used:


Well, it can be a mistake to take the rhetoric of a nut case like President, so-called President puppet leader _____ at face value but from his rhetoric which at least the _____ allow him to utter, it does look as if _____ does appear to want to fight and believes that it has God on its side.  Now that's actually a very dangerous combination of things.


To Liberals intersted in the truth: Hardball
Tony Lagouranis, former Iraqi interrogator, is on there and is describing his personal experiences.  It's a very interesting show.  I'm watching it now on MSNBC, and it is reaired at 7:00 p.m. EST.
Another post below mentioned Hardball. This is an interview with parents

of a Marine who was killed this week in Iraq.  Here is the transcript of the show.  I think it's very compelling.  These people certainly gave the ultimate sacrifice, and to me, their views are very important. 


The interview with Ken Allard is also very interesting. This can all be found at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8838904/


MATTHEWS: Tonight, we begin with the parents of Lance Corporal Edward Schroeder, who was among the 14 Marines who lost their lives in yesterday's attack in Iraq. His parents, Rosemary Palmer and Paul Schroeder, join me now from their home outside Cleveland.

Well, it's a terrible thing to do, but I want to talk to you both about the war in Iraq and the loss of your son.

Ms. Palmer, did you sense that this war was very dangerous for your son, even before yesterday?


ROSEMARY PALMER, MOTHER OF KILLED U.S. MARINE: Well, war is always dangerous. And there were so many deaths that it was starting to mount to the point where I was actually thinking yesterday that if Auggie (ph) were not among the 14 killed, I was almost to the point of calling the Department of Defense and just saying, for mental health reasons, he had to come home, that I couldn't handle it anymore. It was just too much.


MATTHEWS: What made you feel that the danger was growing?


PALMER: Well, it's the old game of the fewer. And the 325 unit that he's in has been having more and more casualties. And if you have fewer guys and the same number of people, well, then, the other—the chances are growing that your person is going to be the one that's hit.


MATTHEWS: Let me ask you, Mr. Schroeder, why do you think we're in this war? What do you think is the real reason for this war in Iraq?


PAUL SCHROEDER, FATHER OF KILLED U.S. MARINE: Well, I really don't know why. I could guess, which might be unfair. But I would guess it has to do with oil. It has to do with deposing a dictator that we used to love and came to hate.


MATTHEWS: Yes.


SCHROEDER: That goes on repeatedly.


MATTHEWS: What did your son say was his motivation for fighting? Was it just patriotism to our country or a belief in the mission?


SCHROEDER: He did not have a motivation to fight. He had a motivation to do his duty to the Marine Corps and to be part of the Marines. His entire life was devoted to doing what he promised he would do.


MATTHEWS: What did he tell you...


(CROSSTALK)


MATTHEWS: What did he say about how the war was going?


SCHROEDER: Well, early on, when his unit arrived there in March, he was talking about the friendly Iraqi people. After May and June, he stopped talking about the friendly people, not that they weren't friendly. But he stopped talking about it.
Two weeks ago, in the last conversation I had with him, he simply said, the closer we get to coming home, the less worth it this is.


MATTHEWS: How did you interpret that?


SCHROEDER: I took that to mean that his participation in Operation Matador, Operation New Market, Operation Sword, Operation Spear, and a couple others that I don't know the names of were failing. And that's, basically, the operations were intended to go into these towns, kick out the insurgents, take their weapons, arrest whoever they could, and then they would withdraw.

They only had to go back and find more insurgents in the same places. The fact that these 14 fellows were blown up indicates to me, logic would say, that this policy, this strategy, this tactic has failed.


MATTHEWS: Let me go to Rosemary...


SCHROEDER: If it was successful, if it was successful, then he would still be alive, as would all those other kids.


(CROSSTALK)


MATTHEWS: Rosemary, let me ask you about the—what is your feeling about this war and the goal of trying to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people? And do you think that was a smart thing for us to try to do?


PALMER: It was a very naive thing for us to do.

You don't go to another culture and try to impose yours and expect it to work. We're not Iraqis. We don't have the same culture. And while I understand that we're a multicultural nation, we don't act like it sometimes. We act like the whole world thinks exactly the way we do.


MATTHEWS: Do you think that the war is going to get any better now that your son—I mean, you have paid the ultimate price? And, by the way, thank you. I don't know what it means to say thank you for your service, except I mean it. The courage of these young guys and some women over there is unbelievable. And I guess everybody wonders about the conduct of the war, whether they're being—these lives are being wasted or these lives are being put to good purpose.
What is your feeling about that now?

PALMER: Well, I personally believe that, since it is not working, then we have to make a change, that it is not worth the sacrifice if it is just more bodies on to the heap.

Like President Bush said, he wanted to stay the course and honor the memory of the ones who died by continuing to fight. If it didn't work before, why does fighting more—you know, you do the same thing over and over, that's—expecting a different result is, I think, the explanation of insanity.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

Well, the way you describe it, it is like pouring water into a sand hole on the beach and having it drain right through and start over again. It seems like a repetitive process that doesn't seem to be getting anywhere.

PALMER: Exactly.

SCHROEDER: Well, the repetitive process has been going on for 27 months, since the active invasion phase ended, 27 months of doing the same thing over and over and over again, with no evidence that it is getting better.

If there were evidence it was getting better—and I have yet to see it—and I—frankly, if it was getting better, these fellows would still be alive after all of this strenuous effort. Then it is time to make a change. Either put the number of troops on the ground that you need to really do the job or get the heck out.

MATTHEWS: Do you have a sense...

SCHROEDER: We have a saying—we have a saying in the Midwest, piss or get off the pot.

MATTHEWS: Do you have a sense, because of your son's tremendous, permanent, total sacrifice of his life and his experience in these months fighting this war, that the middle-level officers, the majors, the captains, do they have a sense of a clear vision of what they're getting done over there?

SCHROEDER: I can't speak to those fellows. I have great respect for the Marine officers at that level and the sergeants who made these troops, great respect.
I would tell you that they probably are frustrated, just like a lot of the ground troops, the lance corporals and the privates are. I would say that one thing that we have to make crystal clear, which is why we agreed to talk today, is that there is a—you cannot equate. There is a clear difference between supporting the troops on the ground and supporting the policies that put them there.

The president likes to make those—to equate those two things. If you don't support the war, you don't support the troops. And too many American people are buying into that. I don't buy into that. Rosemary doesn't buy into that. It is time that we say, look, we can support the troops all until the cows come home.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHROEDER: We don't support the policies that put them there.

MATTHEWS: You two have more right to answer this question than anybody else in the country today. After reading those headline—and to most of us, they're just headlines. They're American G.I.s, Marines in this case, giving their lives for their country, 20-some this week, in that one part of the country in Iraq.

What should be the reaction of the American people who pick up their newspapers, watch television, and learn of these horrors? What should they do as a result of seeing that news, Mr. Schroeder?

SCHROEDER: They should stand up and tell President Bush, enough is enough. You've had your chance. Now let somebody else come up with a different plan. If you can't come up with a different plan that is going to work, in my view, that is more troops, then get out.

MATTHEWS: Rosemary, is that your view? Is that how we, all of us, not in the news business, regular Americans from your part of the country, across the country, getting this horrible news, how should they react to it?

PALMER: Well, I think most people are just saying, you know, the latter, just get out, because it is clearly—well, it is obvious that the politicians are not going to institute a draft. And with the number of deaths and the dangers being what they are, they are not going to get the recruits.

So, therefore, if you can't—you can't get enough guys to do the fighting, well, then you have to get out. Do it or get out of the game.

MATTHEWS: I got you. I heard your views and they sound similar.
Thank you very much for this hour of—this time of anguish, to be giving this information. I think the public needs to hear from folks like you.
Thank you very much, Rosemary Palmer and Paul Schroeder, who lost their son, Lance Corporal Edward Schroeder, just today, last 24 hours.
We'll be right back with HARDBALL.


Also, did anyone look at the Hardball segment listed on the Conservative board?
It was called "The Truth about Iraqi Freedom," I believe.  I THINK it was considered meaningful dialogue supporting the neocons.  However, I felt it was damning.  The only "Truth" the rather strange and creepy neocon lady reporter seemed to come up with was that the soldiers handed out candy and softballs.  The other guest was a former soldier in Iraq who, if only given time, was making some excellent statements regarding the real truth of the war.  The whole segment was rushed and, well, kind of weird. As I said, check out the lady reporter - she seemed most disagreeable and offensive.  Or maybe it was just my take on it!!!!
catch - you know what I mean -

Iraq's Catch 22

Came across this earlier ~ My sentiments from another's pen.  Found on the Independent's web site.


Catch 22 in Iraq
Why American Troops Can’t Go Home


by Michael Schwartz


Every week or so, the Department of Defense conducts a video-conference press briefing for reporters in Washington, featuring an on-the-ground officer in Iraq. On November 15th, that briefing was with Col. Jeffrey Bannister, commander of the Second Brigade of the Second Infantry Division. He was chosen because of his unit’s successful application of surge tactics in three mainly Shia districts in eastern Baghdad. He had, among other things, set up several outposts in these districts offering a 24-hour American military presence; he had also made generous use of transportable concrete walls meant to separate and partition neighborhoods, and had established numerous checkpoints to prevent unauthorized entry or exit from these communities.


As Col. Bannister summed up the situation:



“We have been effective, and we’ve seen violence significantly reduced as our Iraqi security forces have taken a larger role in all aspects of operations, and we are starting to see harmony between Sunni and Shi’a alike.”


The briefing seemed uneventful — very much a reflection of the ongoing mood of the moment among American commanders in Iraq — and received no significant media coverage. However, there was news lurking in an answer Col. Bannister gave to a question from AP reporter Pauline Jelinek (about arming volunteer local citizens to patrol their neighborhoods), even if it passed unnoticed. The colonel made a remarkable reference to an unexplained “five-year plan” that, he indicated, was guiding his actions. Here was his answer in full:



“I mean, right now we’re focused just on security augmentation [by the volunteers] and growing them to be Iraqi police because that is where the gap is that we’re trying to help fill capacity for in the Iraqi security forces. The army and the national police, I mean, they’re fine. The Iraqi police is — you know, the five-year plan has — you know, it’s doubling in size. … [We expect to have] 4,000 Iraqi police on our side over the five-year plan.


“So that’s kind of what we’re doing. We’re helping on security now, growing them into IP [Iraqi police]…. They’ll have 650 slots that I fill in March, and over the five-year period we’ll grow up to another 2,500 or 3,500.


Most astonishing in his comments is the least astonishing word in our language: “the.” Colonel Bannister refers repeatedly to “the five-year plan,” assuming his audience understands that there is indeed a master plan for his unit — and for the American occupation — mandating a slow, many-year buildup of neighborhood-protection forces into full fledged police units. This, in turn, is all part of an even larger plan for the conduct of the occupation.


Included in this implicit understanding is the further assumption that Col. Bannister’s unit, or some future replacement unit, will be occupying these areas of eastern Baghdad for that five-year period until that 4,000 man police force is finally fully developed.


Staying the Course, Any Course


A recent Washington Post political cartoon by Tom Toles captured the irony and tragedy of this “five-year plan.” A big sign on the White House lawn has the message “We can’t leave Iraq because it’s going…” and a workman is adjusting a dial from “Badly” to “Well.”


This cartoon raises the relevant question: If things are “going well” in Iraq, then why aren’t American troops being withdrawn? This is a point raised persuasively by Robert Dreyfuss in a recent Tomdispatch post in which he argues that the decline in three major forms of violence (car bombs, death-squad executions, and roadside IEDs) should be the occasion for a reduction, and then withdrawal, of the American military presence. But, as Dreyfuss notes, the Bush administration has no intention of organizing such a withdrawal; nor, it seems, does the Democratic Party leadership — as indicated by their refusal to withhold funding for the war, and by the promises of the leading presidential candidates to maintain significant levels of American troops in Iraq, at least through any first term in office.


The question that emerges is why stay this course? If violence has been reduced by more than 50%, why not begin to withdraw significant numbers of troops in preparation for a complete withdrawal? The answer can be stated simply: A reduction in the violence does not mean that things are “going well,” only that they are going “less badly.”


You can tell things can’t be going well if your best-case plan is for an armed occupation force to remain in a major Baghdad community for the next five years. It means that the underlying causes of disorder are not being addressed. You can tell things are not going well if five more years are needed to train and activate a local police force, when police training takes about six months. (Consider this an indication that the recruits exhibit loyalties and goals that run contrary to those of the American military.) You can tell things are not going well when communities have to be surrounded by cement walls and checkpoints that naturally disrupt normal life, including work, school, and daily shopping. These are all signs that escalating discontent and protest may require new suppressive actions in the not-so-distant future.


The American military is well aware of this. They keep reminding us that the present decline in violence may be temporary, nothing more than a brief window of opportunity that could be used to resolve some of the “political problems” facing Iraq before the violence can be reinvigorated. The current surge — even “the five year plan” — is not designed to solve Iraq’s problems, just to hold down the violence while others, in theory, act.


What Does the Bush Administration Want in Iraq?


What are the political problems that require resolution? The typical mainstream media version of these problems makes them out to be uniquely Iraqi in nature. They stem — so the story goes — from deeply engrained friction among Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds, frustrating all efforts to resolve matters like the distribution of political power and oil revenues. In this version, the Americans are (usually inept) mediators in Iraqi disputes and are fated to remain in Iraq only because the Bush administration has little choice but to establish relatively peaceful and equitable solutions to these disputes before seriously considering leaving.


By now, however, most of us realize that there is much more to the American purpose in Iraq than a commitment to an elected government in Baghdad that could peacefully resolve sectarian tensions. The rhetoric of the Bush administration and its chief democratic opponents (most notably Senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama) is increasingly laced with references — to quote Clinton — to “vital national security interests” in the Middle East that will require a continuing “military as well as political mission.” In Iraq, leading Washington politicians of both parties agree on the necessity of establishing a friendly government that will welcome the presence of a “residual” American military force, oppose Iran’s regional aspirations, and prevent the country from becoming “a petri dish for insurgents.”


Let’s be clear about those “vital national security interests.” America’s vital interests in the Middle East derive from the region’s status as the world’s principle source of oil. President Jimmy Carter enunciated exactly this principle back in 1980 when he promulgated the Carter Doctrine, stating that the U.S. was willing to use “any means necessary, including military force,” to maintain access to supplies of Middle Eastern oil sufficient to keep the global economy running smoothly. All subsequent presidents have reiterated, amplified, and acted on this principle.


The Bush administration, in applying the Carter Doctrine, was faced with the need to access increasing amounts of Middle Eastern oil in light of constantly escalating world energy consumption. In 2001, Vice-President Cheney’s Energy Task Force responded to this challenge by designating Iraq as the linchpin in a general plan to double Middle Eastern oil production in the following years. It was reasonable, task force members decided, to hope for a genuine spurt in production in Iraq, whose oil industry had remained essentially stagnant (or worse) from 1980 to that moment. By ousting the backward-looking regime of Saddam Hussein and transferring the further development, production, and distribution of Iraq’s bounteous oil reserves to multinational oil companies, they would assure the introduction of modern methods of production, ample investment capital, and an aggressive urge to increase output. Indeed, after removing Saddam via invasion in 2003, the Bush administration has made repeated (if so far unsuccessful) efforts to implement this plan.


The desire for such an endpoint has hardly disappeared. It became increasingly clear, however, that successful implementation of such plans would, at best, take many years, and that the maintenance of a powerful American political and military presence within Iraq was a necessary prerequisite to everything else. Since sustaining such a presence was itself a major problem, however, it also became clear that America’s plans depended on dislodging powerful forces entrenched in all levels of Iraqi society — from public opinion to elected leaders to the insurgency itself.


American ambitions — far more than sectarian tensions — constitute the irresolvable core of Iraq’s political problems. The overwhelming majority of Iraqis oppose the occupation. They wish the Americans gone and a regime in place in Baghdad that is not an American ally. (This is true whether you are considering the Shiite majority or the Sunni minority.) As for a “residual” American military presence, the Iraqi Parliament recently passed a resolution demanding that the UN mandate for a U.S. occupation be rescinded.


Even the issue of terrorism is controversial. The American propensity to label as “terrorist” all violent opposition to the occupation means that most Iraqis (57% in August 2007), when asked, support terrorism as defined by the occupiers, since majorities in both the Sunni and Shia communities endorse using violent means to expel the Americans. Hillary Clinton’s ambition that the U.S. must prevent Iraq from becoming a “petri dish for insurgency” (like the President’s stated fear that the country could become the center of an al-Qaedan “caliphate”) will require the forcible suppression of most resistance to the American presence.


As for opposition to Iran, 60% of Iraqi citizens are Shiites, who have strong historic, religious, and economic ties to Iran, and who favor friendly relations with their neighbor. Even Prime Minister Maliki — the Bush administration’s staunchest ally — has repeatedly strengthened political, economic, and even military ties with Iran, causing numerous confrontations with American diplomats and military officials. As long as the Shia dominate national politics, they will oppose the American demand that Iraq support the United States campaign to isolate and control Iran. If the U.S. insists on an ally in its anti-Iran campaign, it must find a way in the next few years to alter these loyalties, as well as Sunni loyalties to the insurgency.


Finally there is that unresolved question of developing Iraqi oil reserves. For four years, Iraqis of all sectarian and political persuasions have (successfully) resisted American attempts to activate the plan first developed by Cheney’s Energy Task Force. They have wielded sabotage of pipelines, strikes by oil workers, and parliamentary maneuvering, among other acts. The vast majority of the population — including a large minority of Kurds and both the Sunni and Shia insurgencies — believes that Iraqi oil should be tightly controlled by the government and therefore support every effort — including in many cases violent resistance — to prevent the activation of any American plan to transfer control of significant aspects of the Iraqi energy industry to foreign companies. Implementation of the U.S. oil proposal therefore will require the long-term suppression of violent and non-violent local resistance, as well as strenuous maneuvering at all levels of government.


Foreigners (Americans Excepted) Not Welcome


This multidimensional opposition to American goals cannot be defeated simply by diplomatic maneuvering or negotiations between Washington and the still largely powerless government inside Baghdad’s Green Zone. The Bush administration has repeatedly gained the support of Prime Minister Maliki and his cabinet for one or another of its crucial goals — most recently for the public announcement that the two governments had agreed that the U.S. would maintain a “long-term troop presence” inside Iraq. Such an embrace is never enough, since the opposition operates at so many levels, and ultimately reaches deep into local communities, where violent and nonviolent resistance results in the sabotage of oil production, attacks on the government for its support of the U.S. presence, and direct attacks on American troops.


Nor can the pursuit of these goals be transferred — any time soon — to an American-trained Iraqi army and police force. All previous attempts at such a transfer have yielded Iraqi units that were reluctant to fight for U.S. goals and could not be trusted unsupervised in the field. The “five year plan” Colonel Bannister mentioned is an acknowledgement that training an Iraqi force that truly supports an American presence and would actively enforce American inspired policies is a distant hope. It would depend on the transformation of Iraqi political attitudes as well as of civic and government institutions that currently resist U.S. demands. It would involve a genuine, successful pacification of the country. In this context, a decline in the fighting and violence in Iraq, both against the Americans and between embittered Iraqi communities, is indeed only a first step.


So surge “success” doesn’t mean withdrawal — yes, some troops will come home slowly — but the rest will have to embed themselves in Iraqi communities for the long haul. This situation was summarized well by Captain Jon Brooks, the commander of Joint Security Station Thrasher in Western Baghdad, one of the small outposts that represent the front lines of the surge strategy. When asked by New Yorker reporter Jon Lee Anderson how long he thought the U.S. would remain in Iraq, he replied, “I’m not just blowing smoke up your ass, but it really depends on what the U.S. civilian-controlled government decides its goals are and what it tells the military to do.”


As long as that government is determined to install a friendly, anti-Iranian regime in Baghdad, one that is hostile to “foreigners,” including all jihadists, but welcomes an ongoing American military presence as well as multinational development of Iraqi oil, the American armed forces aren’t going anywhere, not for a long, long time; and no relative lull in the fighting — temporary or not — will change that reality. This is the Catch-22 of Bush administration policy in Iraq. The worse things go, the more our military is needed; the better they go, the more our military is needed.


Yes, but missed it. Will try to catch it during
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
did anyone catch how she said "nucular" ? --- OMG
Just gave me that warm McBush feeling all over...
catch ya later, babe.
nm
Anyone else catch the first dance?
Have you ever seen so much love between 2 people? 
He's not "my boy". I only catch him

a couple times a week early in the morning if I can't sleep.


I don't have stocks or bonds, so it's really a moot point. I just need some laughs once in a while over how upset he gets over some things.


Not sure his karma will catch up with him any time soon....
Remember he's got the power that he created backing him.  And yes, I did read that what he did, if he did it as claimed, could be punishable in the extreme.  But of course I think nothing will happen.  I am following this with great interest.  Here's from the AP:

WASHINGTON - For the better part of two years, the word coming out of the Bush White House was that presidential adviser Karl Rove had nothing to do with the leak of a female CIA officer's identity and that whoever did would be fired.




But Bush spokesman Scott McClellan wouldn't repeat those claims Monday in the face of Rove's own lawyer, Robert Luskin, acknowledging the political operative spoke to Matthew Cooper of Time magazine, one of the reporters who disclosed Valerie Plame's name.


McClellan repeatedly said he couldn't comment because the matter is under investigation. When it was pointed out he had commented previously even though the investigation was ongoing, he responded: "I've really said all I'm going to say on it."


_____________


Could it be that the White House has told a LIE????  How many is that now?


So anyway, if you hear any more interesting news on this please share.


 


Already been discussed on both boards. Catch up. nm
x
wow did anybody catch the daily show

depended on it.


 


Deliverance, anyone?


Evidently, she did't quite catch your drift.
nm
Hazel is that catch-all eye color,
not brown, not green, not gray, sort of indeterminate (too long a word to put on the driver's license, so they invented hazel.)
Well, at least you have a new catch phrase. Don't wear it out now, ya hear? nm

By any chance, you catch Larry King?
To begin with, I was a pregnant teen and most definitively will be voting for Obama. The other unwed mother poster is voting for Obama too in case you hadn't noticed. Bully, fear and threat tactics are not effective.

His candidacy is alive and well and has nothing to do with this issue and how it is going to play out. Tonight, Larry King's panel were talking this subject up one side and down the other. Every single issue that was raised today in these posts on this board were touched upon....every single one. SP is in the political arena now. Unfortunately, she has put her daughter there too. The issues surrounding this will be politicized. You can't stop this train.
Didn't quite catch the drift of this post.
su
excuse my typos today...I catch them after I post... :) nm

Anyone catch John Kerry's speech last night?

Scathing against McCain.  Fabulous speech.  He echoed some of my thoughts on McCain, about how much he has changed to pander to the base and get the nomination.  Here is a snippet:


 


Candidate McCain now supports the wartime tax cuts that Senator McCain once denounced as immoral. Candidate McCain criticizes Senator McCain’s own climate change bill. Candidate McCain says he would now vote against the immigration bill that Senator McCain wrote. Are you kidding? Talk about being for it before you’re against it.


 


I'm a left-leaning independent who thought I may vote Republican this time around if McCain ran.  Well, he did, and as time went on I could see how much he has changed his positions to pander to the far right and I have lost most of my respect for him.  I'll give him credit for being a veteran and a POW (a point that while it was once a powerful emotional point for him is now abused by him as an excuse for just about everything is sadly becoming a joke of his own making), but candidate McCain is NOT the same as Senator John McCain.  Anyway, great speech by Sen. Kerry.


I especially enjoyed the real refreshing lie I caught him in the other day...did you catch it?
...no, guess not...no one in the media called him on it either.


Here, let me give you a hint. Obama said that all of the conservative and liberal economists agreed that his economy recovery plan was good (or would work, or something like that).


The lie being that "all the conservative economists" part.

That was one, big, fat, honking lie.....no one even blinked and took his word for it.


My DH says there's at least a half dozen conservative economists out there that don't agree with Obama...and yet....if Obama says they do....everyone believes him.


He lies and you don't even know it, he's so smooth about it.....



But some of us know he does...lie that is......he's getting real good at talking both sides of the issues, so that if something does or doesn't come to pass, he can say I told you so....or whatever needs to be said to save his you know whatsis.

I think he's learned a lot from the Clintons lately, don't you?
dont worry, you wont catch on fire when you read them!
i have to go know and pick up my daughter.  I might do some bible thumping on the way to the school, who knows.
We're just trying to catch our breath after laughing over some of the blind right posts (and W. i
nm
Hey, JTBB, did you happen to catch Janene Garofolo last night on Olbermann? sm
Her psychological analysis of Lamebaugh and the type of people who ""follow""him was right on the money!!  I guess there is whole lot of self-loathing going around on this board!!  LOL
tonight on CBS

Katie Couric will ask her to discuss any supreme court case other than Roe v Wade.  She sits there blankly.  She knows of no other cases. Nobody makes her appear anything.  They ask her questions relevant to history and our government and she demonstrates her lack of knowledge.


 


 


where would I see him tonight?
I want to hear it! thanks.
The trolls are out to tonight..the trolls are out tonight
When they smell blood in the water they come swimming.
That ought to work well for you, at least for tonight.
nm
On 60 minutes tonight

mr Mcclain said he had no problem with going to war with Russia as per NATO if they attack Georgia again.  I dont know even where Georgia is so I was not sure I would agree the US should have a war with the big country over some were I don't know even where it is.  Aren't we enough war already?


 


I cannot believe this board tonight!!!

I actually come here for some stimulating conversation and lately it has gotten to where I wonder why I do it anyway -- nothing but ranting and raving and bashing - YES, FROM BOTH SIDES -- but what is on here tonight is just ridiculous!!!


Who cares if there is a spelling mistake?  When you are a beautician, do you always fix your own hair when you are off work?  When you are a mechanic, is your car always in perfect condition?  If you are a janitor, is your house always perfect?  If you are a carpenter, is your home always in perfect repair?  My goodness, what is the problem?  I come here to unwind and have a conversation with somebody besides the cat and the dog and who cares if I have a problem typing the correct spelling sometimes? 


And why can't we discuss what we want to discuss without someone telling us how wrong we are, or how we are going to be regretting the decisions we made in a few months, or how terrible Obama is, or what he is doing wrong already (when he is not even the POTUS yet), or how big a mistake it was for McCain to pick Palin, or how terrible it was that she spent all that money on clothes? 


Issues, folks!  Issues and answers - that is what we should be worrying about.  How many of us are going to be homeless ourselves in a few months through no fault of our own?  How many of us are going to be losing what little we have left in a few months through no fault of our own? 


Have any of you took a minute to think that when people can't eat, they don't go to the doctor, and when people don't go to the doctor, we have no work?  That means no pay for most of us...  that is what I am worrying about - my pay has already gone down about $50 a day in the last month because the hospital I work for has no work for me...  I am worried about losing my home that I bought "responsibly", I am worried about not eating one day soon because I have no money to buy groceries... 


Let's talk about these things and figure out where to go or what to do from here to build our country up and our friends up, to help the person that is reading the next message you post to have some hope that things are going to get better, or at least that they are not getting worse - quit tearing each other down and fussing and arguing all the time!!! 


CAN'T WE JUST ALL GET ALONG??? 


I heard tonight sm
that the reason people get so outraged when Israel retaliates is that the Hamas purposefully hide themselves among civilians so that when they are struck, so are the civilians and that makes the Israelis look bad - at least worse than when the Hamas send their missiles over.
Mrs M - are we just a little bit RIPPED tonight?
X
Me too, MS....I look forward to all who are speaking tonight.
Guiliani is speaking, Huckabee....though I am not a Republican, I have to admire them. When one of theirs has some issues that they disagree on (like Guiliani being pro choice), they don't excommunicate and demonize them. MUCH more democratic party than the Democratic party.
I am as well.. can't wait for the speakers tonight, especially SP
nm
Anybody watch ABC News tonight?

Charlies Gibson had a personal interview with JM about Sarah. Very interesting. He has the utmost confidence in her as VP. 


Most of the news tonight was on the convention.


Trace Adkins Tonight at RNC
He'll be singing the National Anthem at about 7:30 PM EST.
my goodness....am I ever popular tonight....lol...
almost as much as you sam!!

When I told them to carry on, they reallllyyyyy carried on.....lol....

Gotta love those dems....
Bidens 14 lies tonight

1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.


2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.


3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”


4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.


5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.


6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.


7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false


8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.


9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.


10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.


11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.


12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.


13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”


14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.


True - it's been all over the news tonight how
So yeah, I hope she and the rest of 'em keep it up. It's gonna cost 'em the election.
The vile posts tonight.
I understand and appreciate the fact that the moderators do not want to censor this forum, but the posts tonight by someone who shall remain nameless are beyond vile. Unfortunately, by responding to this person's posts, we are encouraging her to continue spewing hate. There is no way to reason with someone like this, and I think it is best to do as the moderators suggest and ignore the posts in the hopes that she will just go away. Tonight's posts have been absolutely sickening.
How many thread do you need to dominate tonight?
You could post your question down under your newly brought up to the top post and while you are at it, you might consider answering the questions I have been posing to you since lunch time. Otherwise, do you mind if I solicit opinions on this progressive tax table from posters other than yourself?
I heard tonight that Obama

was planning on asking Hillary Clinton to be Secretary of State.  Remembering back to the primary days, I'm not sure I think this is a good idea.  For that matter, I'm not even sure it's true; just something I heard, nothing official.


I'm having a rough night and feel there's another hospitalization for me looming in my very near future, so I might not be able to post on here for a while for feedback from you on this.  (To some on this board, go ahead and flame away.)  Good thing they have TV sets in the hospital, though, so I can at least keep up with the news.  LOL.


Anyway, take care. 


About Hannity, don’t have to watch tonight
I swear, if you miss him 1 day you can tune in next week, the week after or next year and he will repeat word by word by word what he has been talking about. I do not listen of a day except yesterday drove down to my store, about 5 minutes away and then back- he was STILL talking about Rev. Wright. He sounds like a broken record, should give it up, did not work the first time around, not working now.
There's a special on PBS tonight about Lincoln

The author stated Lincoln suspended the right of habeus corpus and the constitution to justify his causes....so maybe this is why O is following along those lines.


Hope it's not on late. I can't stay awake past 8:30 anymore.


 


Just saying something to placate before the "speech" tonight.
The weather man is better in his predictions!
What will you be watching instead of ObamABC tonight?
Let's all give ABC the lowest rating they've ever had, which will still be more than the scumbags deserve.
I wasn't talking about your posts tonight, gt, and you know it. sm
Your old posts are still on this board.  Like the poster who asked if you were strapped to the White House gate, I found your posts out of control and over the line.  Laugh all you want.