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this is not hateful, it is just an analysis and the truth...nm

Posted By: () on 2009-06-18
In Reply to: LOL ! And you are calling people hateful below?? - Good grief (NM)

I cannot believe the B* that is posted by the Rep on the Politics Board, especially the last 2 days, this has gone INSANE !


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Truth? You're delusional if those think those hateful . . .
signs portraying President Obama as Hitler, as a socialist, a lot of them extremely racist, are truthful.  And those are the signs that were shown on the coverage from Fox.  Inciting hate and racism is Un-American, no two ways about it.
What........your twisted or hateful idea of truth, grow a heart, okay?...nm
nm
analysis is exactly what you need
nm
Response to your analysis...sm
First, let's clear away everything you said about Obama's motives, because they are completely irrelevant. A man can act from the purest of motives and the best of intentions, and yet be entirely wrong.

So, to start us off let's just concede that Obama is a patriot, has the best interests of the country at heart and has no ulterior motives or personal interests driving his agenda.

Then, let's also set aside the desirability at least most of the agenda that Obama is promoting, because that, too, is irrelevant to our disagreement with him. At bottom, "we the people" of both/all parties want much the same things. No one would argue, or is arguing, that good schools for our kids, job security with a decent wage, equal opportunity for everyone, access to affordable healthcare, safe streets and national security.

We do have some problems with parts of Obama's agenda. The "science" of global warming, for instance, is simply abominably bad, and many scientists have said so. It has become a business, starting with AL Gore and spreading outward to the greedy hands that grasp for government money allocataed to "combat" this Don Quixote windmill. It is at least strongly possible that the earth is simply going through a cyclical climate change that has existed since the earth was formed - and some of us are saying that before we undertake the enormously expensive and economically damaging measures that the "sky-is-falling folks" are demanding, let's get the science right first and stop using models that start out by assuming the truth of global warming in order to prove global warming. The science has been hijacked by greed for government money.

We do have problems with Obama's policy of appeasement, and so far we have already had three very disturbing confirmations that appeasement is a very bad idea (Russia, Iran, and North Korea). It hasn't been pleasant watching Obama get slapped around in front of the world by Putin, the Ayatollah in Iran and Kim Jong Il.

But let's get closer to home. I said that people of all parties want much the same things. The questions that divide us are not what we should do, but how these things can best be achieved, at what cost, and how rapidly.

As to how these things can best be achieved, Obama believes that government should do them. He proposes to expand government more than Roosevelt did during the New Deal, and extend government's reach into every nook and cranny of American society. Under his budget, the government will account for 25% of the American economy - spending 1 in every 4 dollars. This alone should both stagger and worry everyone, because every government dollar must first be taken away from us (the government makes no money of its own), because the government is infamous for waste and corruption that will siphon dollars off as they do by the $billions with Medicare/Medicaid, and because government dollars always have very burdensome strings attached.

A good question to ask yourself is: Name 5 things that government does well (meaning, effectively and efficiently). You'll have a tough time filling out your list, if you're honest with yourself. Think about education, government-funded healthcare like Medicare/Medicaid, etc. and try to convince yourself that government is doing them well.

Time and again, it has been proven that private enterprise does a much better job of delivering desirable goods (an economic term for both "things" and "services") than government does. Rather than expanding an inept institution (government) to provide these goods, we should be encouraging the private sector to do so. The private sector is required to pay attention to costs, whereas the government is not (anyone can easily find millions of examples of that!).

Then, there is the second item of disagreement - "at what cost". This is related to the third item - "how rapidly". As desirable as many of the items on Obama's agenda might be, I have a lot of items on my personal agenda that are pretty desirable but that I simply cannot afford, or cannot afford RIGHT NOW. We, the people, are in exactly the same position. We have a deep recession that must be our first priority and perhaps, at this moment, our ONLY priority. In fact, so much money is being spent on this agenda item that it may well be the only thing we will be able to afford for quite some time to come, because the bill for all this stimulus spending has yet to come due. Make no mistake, though - we will pay, and pay, and pay, and pay.

When you look at the stimulus package, for instance, there is an incredible number of items that are "compartmentalized" - meaning that the states will get the dollars ONLY if they use them to do certain things that are on Obama's social agenda. And, a large number of these things will generate few if any jobs. The CBO's own numbers confirm that job creation is likely to be only half of what you're hearing from the White House, and unlike the White House, the CBO can explain where they get their numbers.

If we press forward with Obama's programs, the forward deficit (not one that Obama inherited from Bush!) will be nearly $10 trillion. This number is so staggering that governments around the world are beginning to wonder if Washington has lost its mind, and to worry that Washington will be the fountainhead of global superinflation.

It's time to set aside any questions of whether you like Obama or not...or whether you like his agenda or not. IT DOESN'T MATTER whether you like him or his agenda or not. The simple fact is, WE CANNOT AFFORD IT. We seem to think that the government doesn't need to recognize its limits and live within its means, just like families must do. The prospect of a $10 trillion deficit should strike more fear into your heart than terrorists or Russian missiles. It will literally enslave the American taxpayer, while at the same time increasing the price of everything you buy. Some goods will no longer be available at all to the "middle class" because they will become luxury items. Don't just whistle past the graveyard - think!

No society is ever perfect. A hundred years from now, we will still be looking around and seeing things that need to be done, or things that could be improved, or things that need to be eliminated, or things that need to be done differently. And, in that year of 2109, we will still have to say "There are some things on this list that we can afford, and some things we can't afford." We will still have to say "There are some things on this list that government should do, and some things that the private sector should do". It's the ability to make those distinctions that marks the difference between people who are driven by "party politics" and agendas, and those who realize that there are very real constraints that trump any agenda. They are the constraints of the limitations of government, the budget and the longer-term unintended consequences of rushing headlong to achieve any agenda, no matter how desirable it might be.


Very well put Tired MT. Your analysis is spot on. sm
I have been reading the posts for quite a while and I have to agree with you. If you don't agree with political viewpoints on this board, you are jumped on with both feet. I have been on the receiving end of it alos. I figure it this way, I must have really struck a nerve to get people so incensed that they go ballistic. I do have to say that Sam can more than hold her own and I love reading what she has to say. Kudos to Sam for having the courage of her convictions and kudos to you for putting a finger on the problem.
Wow! Thanks! According to your analysis there is no need to hold an election!
X
I totally agree with your analysis.
The release would do more harm than good.

The only purpose to release these pictures can be to persecute the former administration. We all and they all know that they are guilty.

Also, right, NOW is not the time to go after them.
I respect your analysis about how the people in the
Middle East are going to react to the exposure of the torture pictures. But it is a risky thing. The Muslim people's, the everyday people that is, reaction was also standing in awe to the 9/11 catastrophy and condemning it, as they knew it will backfire on them, the people.

But, I guess, their reaction seeing the torture picture, would not be favorable to us, in no way. The pictures will be met with horror, not respect by the Muslim people and the people all over the world. It is cruel torture, and who wants to see humans suffer in such way?
They will ask, 'What is the logic and reason to post those pictures?' They most probably will misunderstand it and maybe judge it as provocation. No good can come out of this. And I do not even dare to think of the reaction of the extremists. Why should a country expose its humiliating mistakes so openly to the world?

Let's not exaggerate trying to repair America's image to the world and the Arab world, I think O is on the right path.
I agree with your analysis. It's gonna be ugly, especially if
Hezbullah wins in Lebanon.
EPA slants analysis to favor Bush's agenda

Report Accuses EPA of Slanting Analysis
Hill
Researchers Say Agency Fixed Pollution Study to Favor Bush's 'Clear
Skies'



By Juliet Eilperin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday,
December 3, 2005; A08


The Bush administration skewed its analysis of pending legislation on air
pollution to favor its bill over two competing proposals, according to a new
report by the Congressional Research Service.


The Environmental Protection Agency's Oct. 27 analysis of its plan -- along
with those of Sens. Thomas R. Carper (D-Del.) and James M. Jeffords (I-Vt.) --
exaggerated the costs and underestimated the benefits of imposing more stringent
pollution curbs, the independent, nonpartisan congressional researchers wrote in
a Nov. 23 report. The EPA issued its analysis -- which Carper had demanded this
spring, threatening to hold up the nomination of EPA Administrator Stephen L.
Johnson -- in part to revive its proposal, which is stalled in the Senate.


The administration's Clear Skies legislation aims to achieve a 70 percent cut
in emissions of sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide after 2018, while Carper's and
Jeffords's bills demand steeper and faster cuts and would also reduce emissions
of carbon dioxide, which are linked to global warming. The Bush plan would also
cut emissions of neurotoxic mercury by 70 percent, while Jeffords's bill reduces
them by 90 percent.


Although it represents a step toward understanding the impacts of legislative
options, EPA's analysis is not as useful as one could hope, the Research Service
report said. The result is an analysis that some will argue is no longer
sufficiently up-to-date to contribute substantially to congressional debate.


The congressional report, which was not commissioned by a lawmaker as is
customary, said the EPA analysis boosted its own proposal by overestimating the
cost of controlling mercury and playing down the economic benefits of reducing
premature deaths and illnesses linked to air pollution.


EPA estimated the administration's plan would cost coal-fired power plants as
much as $6 billion annually, compared with up to $10 billion in Carper's measure
and as much as $51 billion for Jeffords's. It calculated that Bush's proposal
would produce $143 billion a year in health benefits while Carper's would
generate $161 billion and Jeffords would yield $211 billion. Carper's measure
would achieve most of its reductions by 2013, while Jeffords's bill would enact
even more ambitious pollution cuts by 2010.


EPA spokeswoman Eryn Witcher said the agency based its cost estimates on
mercury controls by gathering comments from boilermaker workers, power companies
and emission control companies, whereas the Research Service used a single study
to reach its conclusions on mercury.


Clear Skies delivers dramatic health benefits across the nation without
raising energy costs and does it with certainty and simplicity, instead of
regulation and litigation, Witcher said. Because of our commitment to see this
become a reality, EPA went above and beyond to provide the most comprehensive
legislative analysis of air ever prepared by the agency, so it does a real
disservice to this discussion to have a report that largely ignores and
misinterprets our analysis.


But aides to Carper and Jeffords said they felt vindicated by the
congressional study.


The CRS report backs up a lot of what we initially said about EPA's latest
analysis, that it overstated the costs of controlling mercury and understated
the overall health benefits of Senator Carper's legislation, said Carper
spokesman Bill Ghent. The report clearly states that there's no reason to settle
for the president's Clear Skies plan because the legislation doesn't clean the
air much better than current law.


© 2005 The Washington Post
Company

Do you agree with this analysis of Jewish abortion stance? sm
Jewish beliefs and practice not neatly match either the "pro-life" nor the "pro-choice" points of view. The general principles of modern-day Judaism are that:

The fetus has great value because it is potentially a human life. It gains "full human status at birth only." 2

Abortions are not permitted on the grounds of genetic imperfections of the fetus.

Abortions are permitted to save the mother's life or health.

With the exception of some Orthodox authorities, Judaism supports abortion access for women.

"...each case must be decided individually by a rabbi well-versed in Jewish law." 5


Historical Christianity has considered "ensoulment," the point at which the soul enters the body) as the time when abortions should normally be prohibited. Belief about the timing of this event has varied from the instant of fertilization of the ovum, to 90 days after conception, or later. There has been no consensus among historical Jewish sources about when ensoulment happens. It is regarded as "one of the 'secrets of God' that will be revealed only when the Messiah comes."

Wow, and you can ascertain all that from 4 weeks in office? Amazingly rapid political analysis!.....
nm
The truth sounds rude when put bluntly but still is the truth. nm
!!!! hahaha
Liberal truth vs. Conservative truth.
x
You just can't see how hateful you are
can you?  You just accused someone of being and alcoholic without knowing one thing about him or her.  You are the one who gets loopier the longer you post.  You are the reason along with your ilk that no one can post anyone where on this forum and I sincerely hope that the moderator bans you.
If you act this hateful, then you probably
nm
You should know by know how hateful
nm
What is hateful about it? sm
It's a protest. We do that in this country. She's a politician. People disagree with her political positions and policies and it's hateful? You're taking it waaaay too personally. If you go out and protest against your governor's policies, does that make you hateful, for expressing your opinion and disagreeing with your governor? Of course not. Ladies, SP is not your mother/daughter/sister/BFF. She can handle herself. Keep in mind, she's a *politician.* They all are in this race.
it is not hateful until the end, where it says...
"Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds." This was clearly not meant to be nice. Also, posting near a Nativity scene was just trying to pick a fight. However, destroying the sign, stealing it or anything else is not the right thing to do either. Rather, I think that I just feel for someone who needs to be so controversial in a happy season and would ignore it, shaking my head.
It is hateful in that
it is totally unnecessary.  They sure go to a lot of trouble to fight against something they don't believe in.
Exactly how have I been hateful.
x
I am sorry! But I did not mean it in a hateful
way, really, but it is what it is, isn't it?
I admit I better shouldn't have posted it, but I have the same associations DePass has when I look at her.
Maybe it is also because Obama is so much handsomer than Michelle.
It always amazes me when people see Michelle as beautiful! Only in the eye of the beholder.
JMHO, sorry about that.

You are clueless and hateful
and EVERYTHING stated in that article is LIES!
WOW the Conservatives are hateful here.
I was looking on the conservative board and there is so much aggression and anger there.  What is up with that? WHY?
Are you just naturally hateful...
or do you practice? Time for your meds? For someome supposedly sympathetic to the mentally ill (i.e. those on meds), that was a pretty hateful catty little statement. Sticks and stones, Teddy. Sticks and stones.
Yes, he may be hateful and that is why Obama
Obama has distanced himself from Rev. Wright. He does not believe what Rev. Wright has started spewing. What part of this don't you and others understand.

I had a lot of very good and close friends in high school we had a lot in common and were inseparable. Now I've heard from them and their viewpoints are no where near mine and they are nobody I would ever be friends with. This goes to show that people do change.

I for one believe Obama when he says he does not agree with Rev. Wright. I'm just wondering why people won't accept that, but McCain who is still affiliated with his biggoted and hateful pastors say "I don't feel agree with them" and everyone says ok and belives him????
Please explain where Sam is hateful?
I have seen nothing hateful posted. Seriously, I want to know what you consider "hateful."
Does ot make him any less hateful.
nm
Sam argues, but is not hateful in the way
nm
Probably the same reason the hateful right is
XX
Have you always been this hateful toward the poor?
such hostility toward the working class you so strongly assert to be defending is dead-end dialog. That 95% IS the "working class", as you call them. I prefer the term income earners. If you had any clue about the true state of this economy, you would realize that not only is the 95% tax cut feasible, it is exactly what we need and it will be coming at exactly the right time when we all need it the most.

I do not live in a universe where taxpayers line up and bend over while they bail out corporate welfare deadbeats and turn a blind eye on themselves and their children. It must be a very dark world you come from where you seem to thrive on the energy it takes to sustain such hatred in your heart for the poor. My sympathies.
Is This Sign Hateful?

SEE BOTTOM OF MESSAGE FOR SIGN PIC FIRST.


======================================


CNN) -- An atheist sign criticizing Christianity that was erected alongside a Nativity scene was taken from the Legislative Building in Olympia, Washington, on Friday and later found in a ditch.


An employee from country radio station KMPS-FM in Seattle told CNN the sign was dropped off at the station by someone who found it in a ditch. "I thought it would be safe," Freedom From Religion Foundation co-founder Annie Laurie Gaylor told CNN earlier Friday. "It's always a shock when your sign is censored or stolen or mutilated. It's not something you get used to." The sign, which celebrates the winter solstice, has had some residents and Christian organizations calling atheists Scrooges because they said it was attacking the celebration of Jesus Christ's birth.
"Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds," the sign from the Freedom From Religion Foundation says in part. The sign, which was at the Legislative Building at 6:30 a.m. PT, was gone by 7:30 a.m., Gaylor said. The incident will not stifle the group's message, Gaylor said. Before reports of the placard's recovery, she said a temporary sign with the same message would be placed in the building's Rotunda. Gaylor said a note would be attached saying, "Thou shalt not steal."


"I guess they don't follow their own commandments," Gaylor said. "There's nothing out there with the atheist point of view, and now there is such a firestorm that we have the audacity to exist. And then [whoever took the sign] stifles our speech."


Gaylor said that police are checking security cameras pointed at the building's entrances and exits to see if they can see anyone stealing the sign.
 
"It's probably about 50 pounds, " Gaylor said. "My brother-in-law was huffing and puffing carrying it up the stairs. It's definitely not something you can stick under your arm or conceal."


The Washington State Patrol, which is handling the incident, could not be reached for comment.


Dan Barker, a former evangelical preacher and co-founder of the group, said it was important for atheists to see their viewpoints validated alongside everyone else's.


Barker said the display is especially important given that 25 percent of Washington state residents are unaffiliated with religion or do not believe in God. (A recent survey by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life found 23 percent of Washingtonians said they were unaffiliated with a religion and 7 percent said they didn't believe in God.)
"It's not that we are trying to coerce anyone; in a way our sign is a signal of protest," Barker said. "If there can be a Nativity scene saying that we are all going to he**ll if we don't bow down to Jesus, we should be at the table to share our views."


He said if anything, it's the Nativity scene that is the intrusion.


"Most people think December is for Christians and view our signs as an intrusion, when actually it's the other way around," he said. "People have been celebrating the winter solstice long before Christmas. We see Christianity as the intruder, trying to steal the holiday from all of us humans."


The scene in Washington state is not unfamiliar. Barker has had signs in Madison, Wisconsin, for 13 years. The placard is often turned around so the message can't be seen, and one year, someone threw acid on it, forcing the group to encase it in Plexiglas.


In Washington, D.C., the American Humanist Association began a bus ad campaign this month questioning belief in God.


"Why believe in a God?" the advertisement asks. "Just be good for goodness sake."


That ad has caused the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority to field hundreds of complaints, the group said, but it has heard just as much positive feedback, said Fred Edwords, the association's spokesman.


Edwords said the ad campaign, which features a shrugging Santa Claus, was not meant to attack Christmas but rather to reach out to an untapped audience.


Edwords maintains the campaign began in December mostly because the group had extra money left over for the year. The connection to Christmas is a coincidence, he said.


"There are a lot of people out there who don't know there are organizations like ours to serve their needs," Edwords said. "The thing is, to reach a minority group, in order to be heard, everyone in the room has to hear you, even when they don't want to."


The ad campaign, Edwords said, is to make people think. He said he doesn't expect to "convert" anyone.
But the Christian Coalition of America is urging members to oppose the advertisements.


"Although a number of humanists and atheists continue to attempt to rid God and Christmas from the public square, the American people are overwhelmingly opposed to such efforts," Roberta Combs, the group's president said in a press release.


"We will ask our millions of supporters to call the city of Washington, D.C., and Congress to stop this un-Godly campaign."


As far as the criticism goes, Edwords said there are far more controversial placards in Washington.
"That's D.C. -- this is a political center," he said. "If I can see a placard with dead fetuses on it, I think someone can look at our question and just think about it."


The anger over the display in Olympia began after it was assembled Monday. The sentiment grew after some national media personalities called upon viewers to flood the phone lines of the governor's office.


The governor's office told The Seattle Times it received more than 200 calls an hour afterward.


"I happen to be a Christian, and I don't agree with the display that is up there," Washington Gov. Christine Gregoire told The Olympian newspaper. "But that doesn't mean that as governor, I have the right to deny their ability to express their free speech."


For some, the issue isn't even that the atheists are putting their thoughts on display, but rather the way in which they are doing it.


"They are shooting themselves in the foot," said iReport contributor Rich Phillips, who describes himself as an atheist. "Everyone's out there for the holidays, trying to represent their religion, their beliefs, and it's a time to be positive."
The atheist message was never intended to attack anyone, Barker said.


"When people ask us, 'Why are you hateful? Why are you putting up something critical of people's holidays? -- we respond that we kind of feel that the Christian message is the hate message," he said. "On that Nativity scene, there is this threat of internal violence if we don't submit to that master. Hate speech goes both ways."


What mean and hateful things you say...
It makes sense that a lot of MT's are conservative. It is a job that can be done from home, earning income and still raising your own family (why I do it), which really is a pretty conservative thing to do. Being conservative does not make me stupid or any of the other hateful words that you alluded to, nor does disagreeing with you.
Her comments are not hateful, considering
the general consensus is that Palin has hurt McCain more than his connection to Bush.  By the way, MrsM never said she hated Palin, but she obviously has a strong opinion about her, and MrsM did not personally attack by namecalling anyone else on here for their opinion.  And yet another example of twisting someone's words to suit their own agenda.  McPalin has taught you well, Grasshopper.
See how hateful liberals are? Which is why I no
nm
He's a hateful person if ever I saw one......
-
The truth, the whole truth and nothing but...It's probably the biggest...sm
reason why I am voting democrat...they seem more honest than the the republicans and it looks like people are starting to get smart and *bailin' Palin*... We don't need to keep hearing her *greatest hits" version of her acceptance speech over and over and McSame's POW story...that was then, this is now...we need REAL change and we need it NOW. I don't need someone to push the red button, I need someone to fix the economy!
Truth? The truth is she is nuts!
nm
Could you possibly be any more bitter and hateful? sm
I see your posts all over.  You just posted on the conservative board but didn't have the nerve to put your usual "gt" signature.  I have never seen someone so totally consumed with bitterness, rage and, well, just plain ugliness. 
posts are vile and hateful
Your posts are vile and hateful..I really truly dont know why you defend Bennetts comments cause they are indefensible..and now we come to this..poverty and crime..this is getting uglier and uglier and I will not respond..
No gt you're never hateful or nasty
don't stand in an open field during a thunderstorm.
Yes, Sam -these people are vicious and hateful.
nm
It IS hateful and it IS totally unnecessary

As a Christian, I personally find it offensive, hateful, rude and totally unnessary.


Hateful because it implies that the atheists or whoever wrote the sign has the handle on "good," as in "just be good for goodness sake."  Rude because it implies that people who believe in God are not as smart as they are.  Totally UNNECESSARY.  No one forces anyone to believe in God and you have NO right to try to ram your nonbelief down my throat.  If you want to put a Hannakuh or however you spell it, tree or whatever next to the Nativity scene, fine, that is not offensive.  OTH atheists believe in  nothing so what the heck are they protesting?  Do they also protest every commercian Santa Claus becaue "THEY" don't believe in Santa Claus?  This  politically correct cr*p has gotten completely out of hand.


It IS hateful and it IS totally unnecessary

As a Christian, I personally find it offensive, hateful, rude and totally unnessary.


Hateful because it implies that the atheists or whoever wrote the sign has the handle on "good," as in "just be good for goodness sake."  Rude because it implies that people who believe in God are not as smart as they are.  Totally UNNECESSARY.  No one forces anyone to believe in God and you have NO right to try to ram your nonbelief down my throat.  If you want to put a Hannakuh or however you spell it, tree or whatever next to the Nativity scene, fine, that is not offensive.  OTH atheists believe in  nothing so what the heck are they protesting?  Do they also protest every commercian Santa Claus becaue "THEY" don't believe in Santa Claus?  This  politically correct cr*p has gotten completely out of hand.


Funny how you don't think Mrs. M comments above are hateful..nm

Me too... boo hoo. How I shall miss the hateful left.
nm
Some of the most bitter and hateful people I have
nm
Bitter, hateful and jealous? (sm)

You must be kidding.


Problems that dems have:


8 years of failed economic and foreign policy, a president who ignored the warnings for 9/11 as well as warnings of an economic meltdown, thousands of unnecessary deaths because of a cowboy mentality, war crimes instituted by the highest offices in the US, civil liberties taken away, right of privacy taken away, a barrage of last minute policies that negatively impact the environment, social well-being, and who knows what else.  And this is just the tip of the iceburg.  We are still paying for all of these actions, not only financially as well as with our country's reputation, but most importantly with lives. 


Problems that pubs have:


Obama is the President-Elect and you guys are worried because of rumors about what he MIGHT do.


HMMMMMM.....


He is extremely hateful. Why would Obama go to
nm
The guy has said a list of hateful garbage.
nm
as said: jealous and hateful losers...nm
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