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well ending a useless war would give funds to other

Posted By: things, including health care on 2008-06-22
In Reply to: Health care - Cathie

maybe that's how he plans on funding it...doh!!!


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Useless dirt? Would not say useless.
After all, if JM wins, she will be heartbeat away from the most powerful position in the world.  It behooves us all to have all the information about EVERY candidate so as to make a wise decision.  Only fool would vote for someone without all the knowledge we can find about these four people, IMHO.
Ending the Hidden Agenda Behind Tax Cuts

by: Joe Brewer, t r u t h o u t | Perspective


photo
The way that taxation is viewed by the public has a lot to do with the way politicians frame the debate. (Artwork: inventions-guide.com)



    Something as simple as a metaphor can mean the difference between shared prosperity and widespread suffering.

    It's time to tell the truth about tax cuts. This phrase dominates political discourse and is coughed out every time a conservative public figure opens his mouth. It is treated like the basis of sound reasoning, yet no one points out what should be obvious - that "tax relief" and "tax cuts" are just code words for destroying the capacity of government to serve the public.

    We've heard over and over again that the source of society's problems is the government. The solution that follows is to "trim the fat," "cut out the waste," "shrink the government" and provide "relief" to millions of citizens who suffer the burden of exploitation by Washington elites. This story flies in the face of the facts, yet it makes sense to a significant portion of the US population. How can this be?

    The answer has to do with how we make sense of things in the world. Our experiences shape what seems legitimate by reinforcing (or undermining) our ideas about the way things work. So, for example, a progressive politician may speak honestly and forcefully about the positive role of government in our lives. But this will fall on deaf ears if our typical experience is at odds with such claims. This observation demonstrates a key element of what George Lakoff and I have dubbed the Cognitive Criterion for Public Support:

    An effective policy must be popular if it is to stand the test of time and it must be popular for the right reasons, namely because it promotes the right long-term values in the minds of citizens, reinforced through the lived experience.

    The reason many people accept conservative claims about taxation and government is that they hold up for many common experiences, especially when conservatives are in control of the government. Conservative officials enact policies that make life worse for people while claiming that things will get better. Then they draw upon these negative experiences to advance their agenda. No Child Left Behind is an excellent example. The strategy works like this (a more detailed analysis can be found here):

1. Declare that the agenda is to "improve" public education.


2. Pass legislation that cripples public schools.

3. Cry out for "reform" when people see how bad our schools are doing.

4. Get rid of public schools and replace them with private schools, especially schools that teach conservative ideology (e.g. elite charter schools, religious schools, etc.).


    This strategy demonstrates how *cognitive policy* works. Emphasis is given to how people understand what is happening. The goal is to ensure that our experiences are interpreted through a conservative lens. It is not literally the case that taxation is a burden (a provocative metaphor), but rather that our common sense is influenced by a combination of our experiences in the world and the interpretive filters that give them meaning. (A key feature of how the political mind works, as I discuss in The Great Political Blind Spot.)

    Back to the hidden agenda behind tax cuts; we can apply this insight to see that conservatives *want* people to have negative experiences with government. Why? Because it supports decades of propaganda - and an underlying belief that stems from their worldview - that government is the problem. In the early 1970's, conservative elites started investing heavily in the creation of idea factories to spread their views far and wide so that they eventually became the new common sense of our culture. They had to work tirelessly for years to change the underlying values of American citizens because our long history has been devoted to advancing our most cherished values, which happen to be progressive. But, as we can see by the pervasiveness of their ideas today, this effort has been catastrophically successful.

    Now is the time to nip their bankrupt idea about taxation in the bud. The way to do it is simple. Take their reasoning to its logical conclusion and see what happens if it is applied to the real world. We can test the conservative belief about taxation against our own and decide what's best by looking at the outcomes.

    First, we'll need to be very clear about just what conservatives and progressives mean by taxation. Then we can apply these understandings to the world to see their consequences. (The insights that follow come from linguistic analysis of cognitive "frames" that shape political thought.)

    Taxation as Conservatives Understand It

    I've already alluded to an interesting metaphor that helps make sense of conservative thought about taxes, which I'll call Taxes Are a Burden to make it explicit. The understanding of taxation that follows from this metaphor can be seen in this story:

    Hard-working Americans are in need of some tax relief. Years of mismanagement by tax-and-spend liberals have taken money out of the hands of working people and put it into bloated government programs that serve special interests. We need to cut taxes, return fiscal responsibility to government, and put money back in the hands of taxpayers who know best how to spend it.

    This perspective is grounded in two beliefs: (1) The world is comprised of individuals; and (2) People are inherently bad and must learn right from wrong through self-discipline. I like to call this the "Me First" perspective because it assumes that people must help themselves before thinking about others. It can be summarized with the declaration, "You're on your own!" The Me First perspective assumes that any assistance from the community would be "coddling" or "spoiling" us. This claim is asserted as truth in the conservative worldview.

    Taxation as Progressives Understand It

    Progressives have a different understanding of taxation that can be expressed through a variety of metaphors: Taxes Are an Investment, Taxes Are Membership Dues, Taxes Are Pathways to Opportunity, Taxes Are Infrastructure and Taxes Are a Duty. (Read more about progressive taxation in "Progressive Taxation: Some Hidden Truths") Reasoning that emerges with these metaphors can be seen in this progressive story:

    Our great nation was founded on a promise of protection and opportunity. Through our shared wealth, pooled together by taxation with representation, we have invested in the public infrastructure that makes possible the creation of new wealth. We have a sacred trust to keep this promise alive throughout our lifetimes, expand it as we are able, and pass it along to our children.

    This perspective is grounded in the beliefs that (1) Individuals are influenced significantly by our communities; and (2) People are inherently good and benefit from cooperation with others. I like to call this the "People First" perspective because it assumes that people must help each other in order to enhance their ability to help themselves. It can be summarized with the declaration, "We're all in this together!" The People First perspective assumes that we are greater than the sum of our parts and that new opportunities emerge when we make wise investments with the common wealth we share.

    Truth and Consequences

    Now that we have a clear sense of what taxation means to conservatives and progressives, we can see what happens if these different ideas are used as governing principles for shaping society. This analysis accomplishes two purposes. First, it reveals key truths about taxation that complicate arguments made by conservatives, truths that don't get talked about nearly enough. And second, it exposes a covert agenda that deceptively exploits real concerns of people to advance an otherwise unpopular agenda.

    What happens if the Me First perspective is applied to taxation? Just look to the world we find ourselves in today. A problem defined as "too much spending" leads to budget cuts. This results in a diminished capacity to provide vital services. Public goods like education, civil and criminal courts, road maintenance and fundamental scientific research are too costly for individuals - or even multinational corporations - to afford. So these services are cut and people lose their jobs. Thousands of teachers no longer cultivating young minds. Countless construction workers laid off when city and state governments halt infrastructure projects. Graduates with advanced degrees unable to find work because public agencies are "tightening their belts" and cutting back on grants to academia, nonprofits and the private sector.

    Beyond the direct human suffering of disrupted lives, there is substantial reduction in government programs that protect the public against harm. The FDA cannot staff enough inspectors to keep toxic peanuts out of the food supply. The EPA lacks capacity to keep drinking water clean in cities and towns across the country. The SEC is unable to keep a watchful eye on runaway speculation and our economy spins wildly out of control. Bridges crumble and levies break because funds are in short supply.

    The consequence of conservative ideology is a self-fulfilling prophecy. People are forced to be "on their own" with no protection against serious threats and no assistance to get them beyond their current means. When disasters strike, there is widespread suffering and death because the tapestry of society - our precious safety net - has withered and decayed. Think I'm exaggerating? I'll just say one word - Katrina.

    And despite their claims to the contrary, conservative leaders want this to happen.

    Contrast this with the People First perspective. Again, we can let experience be our guide. A decade of rampant deregulation, perpetrated by a conservative mindset about the relationship between government and the economy, led to the great stock market crash of 1929. A visionary progressive leader, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, stepped in and vastly expanded a wide variety of public programs. The flood of revenues accompanying this expansion was enough to put millions of unemployed back to work. New programs that embody the spirit of progress emerged in the decades that followed. Social Security, the GI Bill, Medicare and the FDIC are a few examples of the legacy this pooling of resources delivered to the American people.

    Along with this massive investment in societal infrastructure, Americans experienced tremendous growth of shared prosperity. For the first time in our history, an entire generation of children from working-class families moved up the economic ladder with college degrees in hand. Home ownership skyrocketed. Literacy rates went through the roof and new skills emerged to expand the capacity of markets. And two generations of people experienced the benefits of cooperation in their daily lives, codifying the ethic that we're all in it together as a bedrock of sound reason.

    I can attest to this from personal experience. Both of my parents came from working-class families. I was the first to get a college degree. Federal and state scholarships delivered me from the rural farm to the hallowed halls. And now society gets to benefit from the fruits of my labor as I work to transform our political system for the betterment of society. The cognitive policy of the People First perspective is a foundation of my identity in the world.

    The Hidden Agenda Exposed

    The progress of our nation is being held hostage by a malicious metaphor. Treating taxation as nothing more than a burden is tantamount to declaring that citizenship is nothing more than getting all you can for yourself … everyone else be damned. Conservative elites have undermined the responsibilities we have to one another to advance their agenda. They are fully committed to crafting the world in their image, as we've seen all too clearly these last eight years and throughout the current debate about economic recovery under the Obama administration.

    I say enough is enough. Let's call this tactic out for what it is. People are hurting in every corner of the land and they're looking for help where they haven't dared to look for quite some time - in the service of our representatives in the federal government. Conservatives will try to convince us that our hardships are caused by excessive government. The truth is that we are suffering under excessive conservative ideology of governance, which is a very different beast. They continue to claim that we can't get ahead because we're overtaxed. This claim is absurd!

    Not a single home foreclosure throughout this crisis has been caused by excessive taxation. The misfortune of illness in a dysfunctional health system has burdened people with horrendous debt. Where did this problem come from? Profit-driven health care created under the Nixon administration.

    Banks haven't failed catastrophically through oversized personal W-2 forms. Radical deregulation is the culprit. Who deregulated the market? Conservative ideologues from both political parties. (This is what the word "centrist" really means - conservatives who've infiltrated the Democratic Party.)

    Companies haven't been driven to huge layoffs because their tax burden is too high. They are victims of an unraveling market. What undermined the integrity of the global economy? An extremist philosophy of governance that is blind to the role of the regulatory frameworks that give stabilizing structure to our markets.

    What can we do to stop the conservative agenda? Call it out for what it is. When someone says, "People need tax relief," respond by letting them know that "We really need to invest in one another." Make it clear what the consequences of tax cuts really are - the destruction of our mechanisms for protecting and empowering one another. And let's stop taking their language for granted just because everyone is doing it. That logic didn't make much sense in middle school. It's all the more dangerous to follow as adults. Challenge the conservative meaning of taxation directly. Declare that we are decidedly NOT on our own. Point to the benefits we've taken for granted too long, things like education and schools and roads and courts.

    We mustn't stop with a critique of their ideas either. We need to fervently argue for our own. Together we are greater than the sum of our parts. A prosperous community is a place where neighbors pool their efforts for the greater good. Taxes provide resources for investments larger than anything we could build on our own. And these benefits create a space for new ideas to take hold and expand our wealth.

    Ideas matter. Words are important. We cannot afford to let a radical minority set the tone of public debate any longer. The time is ripe for moving beyond the era of misguided individualism. Let's take the momentum we've built in the last few years and place the United States back on a course that resonates with our deeply held values - caring for one another, expanding freedoms to the marginalized, and recognizing that our shared prosperity is at the core of our success as a nation.


Will Bush tap the TARP funds............ sm

to bail out the car companies?  Initially he had refused to do that, but he has been lobbying heavily for Congress to pass the auto bailout.  Will be interesting to watch and see what he does.  Would you consider it waffling on his previous stance or just following "plan B?"


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=98174992&ft=1&f=1001


O would never vote no on Katrina funds unless
Just for good measure, I am going to post the reasons I know that to be fact.
http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/2007/08/29/when-the-cameras-are-off-barack-obamas-hurricane-katrina-record/
1. Here is O's record on rebuilding after Hurriane Katrina
2. Sept. 2, 2005: Obama holds press conference urging Illinoisans to contribute to the Hurricane Katrina relief efforts.
3. Sept. 5, 2005: Obama goes to Houston to visit evacuees with Presidents Clinton and Bush.
4. Sept. 7, 2005: Obama introduces bill to create a national emergency family locator system
5. Sept. 8, 2005: Obama introduces bill to create a National Emergency Volunteers Corps. Sept. 8, 2005: Obama co-sponsors the Katrina Emergency Relief Act of 2005 introduced by Senator Harry Reid
6. Sept. 8, 2005: Obama co-sponsors the Hurricane Katrina Bankruptcy Relief and Community Protection Act of 2005 introduced by Senator Russ Feingold
7. Sept. 12, 2005: Obama introduces legislation requiring states to create an emergency evacuation plan for society’s most vulnerable
8. Sept. 15, 2005: Obama issues public response to President Bush’s speech about Gulf Coast rebuilding.
9. Sept. 21, 2005: Obama co-sponsors bill to establish a Katrina commission to investigate response to the disaster introduced by Hillary Clinton
10. Sept. 21, 2005: Obama appears on NPR to discuss the role of poverty in Hurricane Katrina.
11. Sept. 22, 2005: Obama and Coburn’s Hurricane Katrina financial oversight bill unanimously passes Senate committee.
12. Sept. 22, 2005: Obama’s amendment requiring evacuation plans unanimously passes Senate committee.
13. Sept. 28, 2005: Obama and Coburn issue statement about the need for a Chief Financial Officer to oversee the financial mismanagement and suspicious contracts occurring in the reconstruction process
14. Sept. 29, 2005: Obama and Coburn investigate possible FEMA refusal of free cruise ship offer
15. Oct. 6, 2005: Obama and Coburn issue statement on FEMA Decision to re-bid Katrina contracts
16. Oct. 6, 2005: Obama co-sponsors Gulf Coast Infrastructure Redevelopment and Recovery Act of 2005.
17. Oct. 21, 2005: Obama releases statement decrying the extension of FEMA director, Michael “Brownie” Brown’s contract. Obama calls Brown’s contract extension, “unconscionable.”
18. Nov. 17, 2005: Obama and Coburn introduce legislation asking FEMA to immediately re-bid all Katrina reconstruction contracts.
19. Feb. 1, 2006: Obama gives Senate floor speech on his legislation to help children affected by Hurricane Katrina
20. Feb. 2, 2006: Obama introduces legislation to help low-income children affected by Hurricane Katrina
21. Feb. 23, 2006: Obama issues statement responding to a White House report on Hurricane Katrina. Obama noted that the top two recommendations that the report had for the federal government were initiatives he had been working on since immediately after the storm hit. Obama called the administration’s response “delinquent.”
22. May 2, 2006: Obama gives speech about no-bid contracts in Hurricane Katrina reconstruction
23. May 4, 2006: Obama’s legislation to end no-bid contracts for Hurricane Katrina reconstruction passed the Senate.
24. June 15, 2006: Obama and Coburn announce legislation to require amendment to create competitive bidding for Hurricane Katrina reconstruction for federal contracts over $500,000. Although it passed previously, the language was stripped in conference.
25. June 15, 2006: Obama releases podcast about his pending Katrina reconstruction legislation in the Senate.
26. June 16, 2006: Obama and Coburn get no-bid Hurricane Katrina reconstruction amendment into Department of Defense authorization bill.
27. July 14, 2006: Obama and Coburn’s legislation to end abuse of no-bid contracts passes senate as amendment to Department of Defense authorization bill.
28. August 11, 2006: Obama visits Xavier University in New Orleans to give Commencement address
29. August 14, 2006: Obama and Coburn ask FEMA to address ballooning no-bid contracts for Gulf Coast reconstruction
30. Sept. 29, 2006: Obama and Coburn legislation to prevent abuse of no-bid contracts in the wake of disaster passes Senate to be sent to President’s desk to become law.
31. Feb. 2007-Present: As Obama begins his Presidential campaign he references Katrina as a part of his stump speech as he travels around the country in his familiar line, “That we are not a country which preaches compassion and justice to others while we allow bodies to float down the streets of a major American city. That is not who we are.”
32. June 20, 2007: Obama co-sponsors Gulf Coast Housing Recovery Act of 2007 introduced by Senator Chris Dodd.
33. July 27, 2007: Obama and colleagues get a measure in the Homeland Security bill that will investigate FEMA trailers that may contain the toxic chemical, formaldehyde.
34. Aug. 26, 2007: Obama outlines a detailed Hurricane Katrina recovery plan.
35. December 18, 2007: Obama calls on President Bush to protect affordable housing in New Orleans
36. February 16, 2008: Obama releases statement on toxic Gulf Coast trailers

Please explain, forego what funds? And
*become self-supportive by their own congregation members?*
It'd be useless anyway - they can't help themselves.
Interesting how the ones who screamed so loud about liberals needing to stay off their board in the beginning are the very same ones who can't resist invading ours. Moths to the flame of truth, no doubt.
Mayors seek bailout funds
The first of many?


NYT ad alone cost $200,000 in taxpayer funds. Not a big deal?nm
z
Just keep trying to dig up your useless dirt on her.
nm
Right, and it's useless, just venting...
anger and disappointment by the losers.
there were more, but I think it's useless trying to point them out....sm
obama has said so many things, especially about his past associations...but when any of it is pointed out, i.e., news clips or video played on it...obama just explains it away, and all his supporters believe whatever he has to say.

latest one is the governor, blago, whatever his name is.

obama always has a slick excuse/response, to explain away past statements.


I am not even religious. Take your useless
nm
All the useless hysteria here lately.



McCain diverted money from campaign funds


and N. Korea is laughing at the useless UN
nm
Trailblazing refusal of public funds, record-breaking fundraising

That guy sure knows how to raise mountains of money.  Small donors, big votes.  Innovative and successful.  Now that's what I'm talkin' about.  T-minus 18 and counting. 


EVERYBODY laughs at the Useless Nations, not just North Korea. nm
nm
Don't give up......
Hey, how about the URL?
Give it up.
.
You get the job they give you. sm
I honor all our military, no matter what job they do.
Okay - I give up. LOL.

I was hoping for a better result the second time, but I didn't get one.  Please use the link if you're interested in reading this in its entirety.


Sorry! 


http://www.rense.com/general84/close.htm


Maybe we all should give ourselves
a mini bail-out and take a tax holiday next April by filing hundreds of millions of extensions.
I can give you my take on it.....
he is trying to give tax breaks to them in order to get them out from under the heavy tax burden put ON them by Democrats which caused them to outsource in the first place. If corporate taxes are lower here that only encourages companies to keep their employees here, their operations here, and even encourages overseas companies to but divisions here and employ even more Americans. It is just common sense if you look at it on the face of it. We have the second highest corporate/business taxes in the entire world. If you had a business, would you not want to make money? We ask employers to do huge benefits packages for employees, and then turn right around and tax them into oblivion. They have to do something...either offshore or go under. High taxes and big government are NOT helpful to business, and if business does not thrive, we the people don't either.
Yes, but it would only give those who
act like fools now regardless of their situation an excuse to be hostile. More intelligent people might harbor deep feelings but the ignorant ones will be out on the streets acting like they normally would, only worse.
Give me an 0-B-A-M-A and what do you have?...
  OBAMA!
Okay.....I will give you that....sm
Some are Christians....but look at what only a few were able to accomplish on 9/11. Think of what thousands more could accomplish. Look at what Hitler and Idi Amin and Saddam Hussein were able to accomplish. They were not the majority in their respective countries, but they were able to exterminate millions of people. Are you ready for that? And don't think it could never happen in America.
Maybe O will give me the....... sm
family rate........... NOT! 
Okay, I give up.

All I see is promises. calm demeanor is another. He was a bit rattled at some of the questions asked of him throughout the campaign.


I'm afraid of his "form of thinking"...  "world view, plans and policies". His voting record leaves something to be desired. He is not focusing on the middle class, but is focusing on the have-nots. 


His "voting record, his biography?" Not good. His "accomplishments"? What, that he came up so fast in government? That's a little quizzical. How did he accomplish that?


I am truly worried about his "orientation towards the future," his "multicultural global outlook, his global appeal". Love for his country? We shall see.


We know he loves his family. That I won't argue with, but other things you wrote, yes. I'm not sure he has the gumption to do it all.


 


Give me......... sm
a big old bowl of mustard greens with fat back, fried salt pork, baked sweet taters, fried hot water cornbread and a tall glass of cold buttermilk topped of by a big old slice of chocolate pie any day! I got a good case of gastric distress just reading that menu!!!
Give me one that was NOT! ! !
.
No, you just give them, they take and ask for more.
nm
give me an example
And don't list penis & breast enhancement ads. These have nothing to do with atheism. I want to know when you have been watching a religious program and had an ad for atheism show up, & what the ad was about.

How are your rights being taken away? Before you answer, make sure that the "right" you list is NOT one that infringes on the rights of others. Give me some legitimate, concrete examples.

I can't give.......

this package an A. It is so complicated and I am getting mixed messages all over the place. We have to wrap Iraq up (that'll save us $12 billion a month) - don't know how they'll accomplish that and then there's Afghanistan, what a mess. They have to do something and they have to do it now. We have witnessed how the "free market" will take care of it - it won't. I am disgusted and disappointed with Congress. The longer this freefall continues, the longer it will be before the banks can extend credit. And, I agree with Obama, cap the CEOs salaries as long as they are accepting taxpayers money. STOPPING spending is what everyone is doing right now.....and the freefall continues. Spending to stimulate the economy seems to be our only option right now. This country has so may ills - it can't be boiled down to a couple of paragraphs.


GIve em' he!! Mrs. B!!!

That is very big of you to give your
your permission for differing opinions from your own.
GIVE Act
Link below
I don't like it when they give

military information either.  I also cringe when I see documentaries on how our weapons are made and what they do.  Nothing like giving the enemy a play by play on what we are doing and how our weapons are supposed to work. 


As far as I am concerned, we don't need to know every little thing like that.  It puts us at a disadvantage and I personally feel it endangers our troops just throwing out information like that.


I will give you this....

I'm sure that there were some folks there that were there basically because they hate Obama.  But you cannot stereotype everyone into that group.  I, for one, don't hate Obama.  I wasn't there trying to have him impeached for being black....okay.  It amazes me that you people tell conservatives to be openminded, at the same time you can be some of the most closed minded of all of us.  You want us to see things from your point of view and yet at the same time spit on our point of view.  


We are called racist and unpatriotic for disagreeing with our current president and yet it was quite okay to disagree with Bush.  You want to cry and whine about how this is about Obama and how we hate Obama and yet you say nothing of the black people who voted for Obama merely because he was black.....or about the black people who continue to support him merely because he is black.  If you want to throw up the race card, by all mean do it but please report the racism from all sides.  I'm not saying all black people voted for Obama for that reason.....but some did.  I'm sure some white people didn't vote him for because he is black.....but that isn't the reason for all of us.  You can't use racism as a cop out for everything here.


If the tea parties were truly about hating Obama and all brought about by racism....then by all means we have a right to be ridiculed because that would be a wrong reason to protest and would show how bigotted we are.  However, that WAS NOT the reason behind the tea parties.  It wasn't even about Obama entirely.  It was about GOVERNMENT and that includes the president, pubs, and crats as well as any independent that might be in there if there are any. 


It amazes me that liberal groups can protest and be physical with people in their protests and spray paint graffiti and that is okay but when concerned Americans get together in protest where there is no violence and no destruction of public or private property.....you all scream and call us hate mongers.....are you kidding me?   


There may not have been many black people in the crowd but there were some out there.  I don't recall seeing any burning crosses.  There were no Obama effigies hung from a rope....although I do recall one of Sarah Palin being hung during the campaign at someone's house during Halloween and I guess that was okay, huh?


Double standards and the race card.....I'm sick sick sick of it.


I give up
You don't get what I just said. The money was used for something else whether is was supposed to be or not. Check the history. The money was "borrowed" for other purposes. I also acknowledged that it is paid by current workers and that the benefit is determined by what you earned and not what you paid in, but what you earned would be very tied to what you paid in. The more you earned, the more you paid. I will say one last time this system was supposed to be a savings acct for retirement. No, my own actual dollars would not be paid to me, but if I paid in, I should be paid out. The govt had no right to squander that surplus thus leaving the system unable to provide for those citizens who worked hard, paid in and who trusted them with the money. Most seniors could have done a lot better putting their own dollars in their own bank rather than having the govt do their investing for them. That is all this boils down to whether you wish to acknowledge it not. I am done and gone.
I don't think you give Bush

Although I totally agree with EVERYTHING you said, I'm sure that Bush will find a way to keep all the kids of his rich "base" out of combat, the same way he was kept out of combat by his rich dad.  Maybe if Dubya had the GUTS to see some combat action on his own, he'd think twice before sending our children out to die for a bogus war that he needs because he feels that no president could be considered truly successful without one military "win" under his belt.


He said this in 1999, TWO YEARS before 9/11:


"My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it." He went on, 'If I have a chance to invade…, if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it. I'm going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I'm going to have a successful presidency.'"


He's beyond moronic.  What kind of SUBHUMANOID USES 9/11 and all its victims as an EXCUSE to do what he's wanted to do all along?


And yes, you'd better believe there's going to be a draft.  I have 2 reasons for believing that.


1.  Because, as you said, we can't meet recruitment quotas because our bright young people are opening their eyes and aren't willing to die in an unnecessary war for a government that does nothing but lie; and


2. Read my lips:  BECAUSE HE PROMISED THERE WOULDN'T BE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Give it up, sm, I did. Come on over to the C board. :) NM

kennedy does not give?
Does not put his money where his mouth is?  Do you have an inside as to how he spends and donates his money?  I dont but I would suspect coming from the Kennedy family that he donates pretty significantly to situations that need it..If you dont know for sure, then I would suggest you not post derogatory posts about the Kennedy family..if you do know for sure, post the information here, just dont rant and rave without proof..Thanks!
Give me a break.
The CON board has been demoralized by nonstop drive-by vitriol for months. Forgive me if I'm neither surprised nor particularly perturbed to see that the worm has turned here. My congratulations, though, extend to all those who post with the very obvious intent of ridiculing and harassing those with opposing views to the point of eliminating rational discussion on these boards. If their purpose is to eliminate rational discussion of important political issues, they seem to be succeeding.
They may give us Jeb. Gasp! nm
z
I will. If you want a reference I will give it to you. You may not like it though...sm

You give him a lot of credit

In your view one man single-handedly has brought the world down in 5-1/2 years.  That's really giving Bush a lot of power.  If Clinton and other Democratic presidents were soooo great then why didn't they single handedly make the world a utopian place when they were in office?   Wow, Democratic presidents must have really sucked if you have the view that the Office of the President of the United States holds the power to either make the world Heaven or Hell.  It seems the Dems could do neither.  Man, they were lamer than I ever imagined if your view is correct.


Isn't Bush the one trying to give them
??
Can you give some examples?
I am interested in hearing your common sense solutions to the problems our President has faced and how you would have handled the issues differently. Have you thought about running for President? You should if you're up for the great task. I'll vote for you!
Can you give links on any of this....
other than..."I heard..." Believe me, the way auto sales are falling, if they could manufacture one that ran on water and sold for $1200 they would be selling them, because $1200 is better than zero...good grief. Talk about your conspiracy theories. All the automakers are downsizing and grasping to try to sell cars and they would NOT ignore something they could build and sell cheap...simple economics 101. The Wal-mart approach to car sales, and they all know how successful wal-mart is, because all the pieties about "I only buy American" and "offshoring" fall to the wayside in favor of "cheap." All those same people who gripe about wal-mart buying overseas and supposedly mistreating their employees run over each other to get to the sales, and don't think they don't. Typical Democrat mantra...do as we say, not as we DO.

As to the car McCain offered the bounty for on the battery...he was talking about one that would replace what is in use now...not one whose top end is 30 mph and you have to charge it after an hour. Good grief, get your facts straight. :-) I am sure he meant one that would at least do 50 mph and you could drive it to the quick pick and back without having to plug it in. That being said, I did see where Toyota (on the US side) is working on technology to attach solar panels to charge batteries. Of course, that would mean leaving that sweeetttt little sports car out in the sun...ahem. Bet Teddy Kennedy won't be buying one and I bet RFK Jr. won't either...lol. Gotta love'em. DO as we SAY...not as we DO.
oh give me a break!
as the person said above, ive never used his whole name, and i said it for impact, not because i care about him. Honestly, I don't know McCain's Middle name! or Joe Biden's or Sara Palin's. pathetic that you talk about me in third person. ask like the person above. again you know nothing about me, i have pics all up on my myspace of me shaking Obama's hand and me at his speech... you know the old saying if you assume you make an a$$ out of you and me!
give it a rest ....nm
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