And my grandfather died in WWII, defending the country where you live now in freedom (nm)
Posted By: To all Obama supporters on 2008-09-23
In Reply to: I grew up in extreme poverty myself - I am only 40 - I know (sm) - To all Obama supporters
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What about the thousands that died in WWII to
keep us free from the nazi regime/communism? What about the Korean War? They died, too, to keep communism from spreading.
Viet Nam was another story. They died and people here were so outspoken about it (just like it is happening now), and that it brought the moral of the tropps down. When our president pulled them out so quick, all he-- broke out. The Viet Cong and Cambodia armies slaughtered thousands.
Those fighting now mostly support and believe in what they are doing. If the troops are pulled out as quick as O wants, the same thing may happen there. This is why they are trying to get Iraq's military and police set up so another Viet Nam will not happen. Support our troops.
my grandmother until my grandfather died because...
My grandmother said they did not agree on politics and she would never vote for the same person he did, so therefore her vote would cancel his out and she felt like that was wrong because he was the head of the household!!! Can you believe - as soon as he died, she never missed voting again for who she wanted.
P.S. Thank you for defending our country and
keeping us free.
U.S. learns to live with less freedom...sm
U.S. learns to live with less freedom
Jun. 19, 2006. 05:30 AM
TIM HARPER
WASHINGTON BUREAU
MANCHESTER, N.H.—The fierce cultural aversion to the long reach of government is emblazoned on every licence plate here, an omnipresent statement that should make Rich Tomasso's job easier.
But even a man who makes it his business to protect individual liberties in a state where no government would dare collect a sales tax or personal income tax — or force a seatbelt around a driver or a helmet on a motorcyclist — has to face some harsh realities in George W. Bush's America.
People are more afraid of terror than having their privacy violated, says Tomasso, chair of the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. For so long the rhetoric has been about fear, not hope and more traditional American values.
Live Free or Die is not just a cheesy licence plate slogan in this tiny New England state. But even New Hampshire is not immune to the national erosion of civil liberties that has permeated every part of the United States since terrorists forced their way into airline cockpits almost five years ago, taking away a nation's bravado and replacing it with fear.
The exploitation of that fear by an administration intent on inflating the powers of the presidency, at the expense of a cowed Congress and with the tacit approval of an anxious nation, may be a cautionary tale for Canadians should some of that U.S.-style fear find its way north of the border in the wake of Toronto's recent terrorism arrests.
In recent years, it has become a truism that Americans will trade away some liberties because they have been attacked. Canadians have not.
But where is that rugged U.S. individuality that had helped define this nation?
That's the sheer freedom of our country...
we can say what we want, when we want.
This country was founded on the basis of religious freedom.
Actually, the original settlers left England to escape the religious fanatics and create a nation where they were free to believe and practice whatever religion they chose.
You must live in another country! Sorry, but the
I was better off, made more money, paid lower taxes, and had more job security during the Clinton Administration than now. Same with all my MT friends & co-workers.
And you must want to live in a socialist country
What part of my message didn't you understand? It was pretty simple. It was Biden's words himself. So let me spell it out for the intellectually challenged (maybe if you read this slowly you might understand it).
1. We don't need the liberals stealing from the american people who have worked hard (the ones who have small business, etc (words of Newt Gingrich).
2. Taking more money from the people who work hard to earn it while not stopping the spending will not help the economy grow.
Most importantly - now read this extra slow so you can understand it.
Stealing money from the american people under the guise of "taxes" while trying to make them believe its their patriotic duty to pay more, when we can hardly afford to live anymore and while government does not stop spending on uneccessary programs is not patriotism - it's socialism.
You do the research. And you say I'm not too bright???
Doesn't anyone know what it will mean for us to live in a socialist country?
While everyone is busy attacking the republicans while crying that everyone is attacking Obama, nobody has answered the question.
You can't even see the end of the nose on your face. Its a fact that democrats have put us economically where we are. Who cares about Bush! He did not vote on the FMFM thing 2 years ago. There are bills signed, records voted on. It is black and white. with Dodd, Franks, and Cox at the top (not to mention Obama). It is undeniable, yet you continue to ignore the facts (plus the democrats had control of the congress). Stop living in the victim state and face the facts.
Still just trying to find out what socialism will mean for us in our daily lives IF Obama is elected. Nobody knows yet if he will be elected or not - especially with the latest news of the swing states finding republican registration cards thrown in the garbage. I don't trust any poll until the day after election (look at the Bush/Gore election). That was close.
Anyway...guess I will have to do some research but not sure where to start.
Baloney, I live in coal country and I should know
Maybe you should look up some statistics from real sources.
Judging by all the twits that live in this country,
*
I want to live in a free country - I'm for McCain/Palin
If I want a socialist country I will go with Obama/Biden.
True freedom of religion if you are Christian, or freedom to Islam,Buddhist, Hindu, Jew, agnostic, a
all are religious beliefs, and if you are looking for true FREEDOM, all must be tolerated, understood, and welcomed. cannot put parameters on FREEDOM
WWII and Vietnam
I think that you have made a crucial error in believing that WWII and Vietnam are at all similar. WWII and the US Civil War were also very different wars. There are even major differences between Iraq and Vietnam and the Korean War although some historians would also find greater similarities in these three wars. You may rewrite the history of wars as well as US history to fit your agenda of political hatred, but you will never be able to present a convincing argument if you have completely questionable sources and facts to back it up.
You negate most historical records, which I admit often have some aspects of questionable validity, and you seem to re-create a fictionalized account to accommodate your rather far-out-there belief system based in hatred of the left. You rearrange and fictionalize facts and history to make your point. You provide spurious sources for your facts (I could probably find sources that prove that the earth is populated by aliens from Mars if I looked hard enough).
I also notice on the conservative board constant condemnation of liberals, leftists as a whole. We are characterized as stupid, immoral, crazy, unpatriotic, love the terrorists, cowards, angry, on and on. You are condemning at least 50 percent of the citizens of this country with those adjectives. Doesn't seem at all patriotic to me. Your group also points out nuts (like those who would spit on veterans) as representing the liberal mindset. I realize I am not going to be able to convince you of the great disservice you do to yourself with a narrow and naive mindset like that. I know many Republicans and with the exception of possibly one, none are as condemning and narrow-minded as the posts I see on your board. Thank heavens for that. While I have participated in bashing and see bashing on the liberal board, it rarely occurs in a generalized fashion toward all right-wingers. As I said, that would be a very naive assumption and the root of bigotry and prejudice and ultimately hatred is in the grouping of all peoples as being of one mindset.....think of Muslims, blacks in the south pre-Civil Rights, Native Americans in the 1800s (and even now). So easy to ridicule and oppress when we don't see folks as individuals. Actually the comments I see made about the liberal mindset are so far removed from the reality of most liberals in the United States it verges on the ridiculous, well no, it doesn't verge on the ridiculous, it IS ridiculous.
As far as your further condemnation of Democrats as far as blacks and their allegiances, I believe most informed political science folks would be the first to admit that the party doctrines have evolved over time. What probably counts most is the current party belief system. Just some common sense.
End of sermon.
he's the grandfather I wish I had
smart, capable, but sometimes says really goofy stuff. I have a bumper sticker on my car from his statement about Obama being clean, articulate, good-looking, etc.
Bush's grandfather
Bush-Nazi Link Confirmed - by John Buchanan
Documents in National Archives Prove
George W. Bush's Grandfather Traded
with Nazis - Even After Pearl Harbor
WASHINGTON -- After 60 years of inattention and even denial by the U.S. media, newly-uncovered government documents in The National Archives and Library of Congress reveal that Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, served as a business partner of and U.S. banking operative for the financial architect of the Nazi war machine from 1926 until 1942, when Congress took aggressive action against Bush and his "enemy national" partners.
The documents also show that Bush and his colleagues, according to reports from the U.S. Department of the Treasury, tried to conceal their financial alliance with German industrialist Fritz Thyssen, a steel and coal baron who, beginning in the mid-1920s, personally funded Adolf Hitler's rise to power by the subversion of democratic principle and German law.
Furthermore, the declassified records demonstrate that Bush and his associates, who included E. Roland Harriman, younger brother of American icon W. Averell Harriman, and George Herbert Walker, President Bush's maternal great-grandfather, continued their dealings with the German industrial tycoon for nearly a year after the U.S. entered the war.
My grandfather rolled his own
Let's address obesity! That's costing us a fortune an absolute fortune... There are some people that are so friggin fat they can't leave the bed and are still eating.. that's costing us welfare money........
If I smoke and I can afford to buy them and I want to kill myself while I'm doing so, leave me alone..........
Like gourdpainter... if alcohol was government regulated, I guess Obama could have no more cocktail parties... yes I voted for him because I wanted change.... I thought he was going to help people like us, the working middle class... I'm still waiting...
People who carry guns want that right, and smokers want their rights as well. I am so tired of everyone blaming cigarettes for the deaths...
What about my aunt that died of cancer and didn't smoke. What about my mother who died of obesity and diabetes and didn't smoke. What about my uncle who just died of leukemia and didn't smoke... cut me a break!
My grandfather rolled his own
Let's address obesity! That's costing us a fortune an absolute fortune... There are some people that are so friggin fat they can't leave the bed and are still eating.. that's costing us welfare money........
If I smoke and I can afford to buy them and I want to kill myself while I'm doing so, leave me alone..........
Like gourdpainter... if alcohol was government regulated, I guess Obama could have no more cocktail parties... yes I voted for him because I wanted change.... I thought he was going to help people like us, the working middle class... I'm still waiting...
People who carry guns want that right, and smokers want their rights as well. I am so tired of everyone blaming cigarettes for the deaths...
What about my aunt that died of cancer and didn't smoke. What about my mother who died of obesity and diabetes and didn't smoke. What about my uncle who just died of leukemia and didn't smoke... cut me a break!
Dissent during WWII - A history lesson the right forgot....sm
Dissent during WWII - A history lesson the right forgot.
Posted by ChrisSal on Wednesday June 28, 2006 at 3:04 pm MST [ Send Story to Friend ]
One of the right’s favorite things to do is to compare the Iraq invasion to WWII and Saddam Hussein to Adolph Hitler. They claim that anyone who opposes the war is an appeaser, a terrorist sympathizer, or a traitor. This rhetoric is absolutely laughable not only because it is a huge stretch, but also because Republicans have obviously forgotten their own history.
Following the rejection of the League of Nations treaty in 1919, America developed a strong isolationist foreign policy. This was, perhaps, in response to the expansionist policies put in place by Teddy Roosevelt and the abject horror experienced in WWI. The citizenry wanted nothing more to do with sending its men to fight in foreign conflicts.
However, in 1935 Italy invaded Abyssina, which provided the first real test of America’s isolationist foreign policy. Congress passed the Neutrality Act, applying a mandatory ban on the shipment of arms from the U.S. to any combatant nation. FDR vehemently opposed the bill, but signed it under intense Congressional and public pressure. Two years later, Japan invaded China starting the Sino-Japanese war. As China was our ally and public opinion was favorable, FDR found ways to circumvent the Neutrality Act and assist China. Another two years later Germany invaded Czechoslovakia and began their conquest of Europe.
In May 1940 Germany overran the low countries, which left Britain open to invasion. By the end of 1940, Britain was financially ruined and the isolationist support was beginning to rapidly erode. 1941 brought about the Lend-Lease act and a more aggressive US posture in the Atlantic. Some claim, with some validity, that FDR provoked both Germany, with the US Naval presence in the Atlantic, and Japan, with support to China and crippling embargoes, particularly the oil embargo, into war. For the purpose of this discussion, that is neither here nor there.
As it became more apparent that the US involvement in WWII was going to deepen, a group named ‘America First’ organized to put pressure on FDR to keep America out of the war. “America First” garnered the support of people from across all shades of the political spectrum, but it was the GOP, who hated FDR and everything he did, that started the ball rolling. Twelve days after Pearl Harbor, Sen. Taft (R-OH) gave a speech to the Executive Club in Chicago. He railed against US intervention into WWII and spoke on the need for dissent, particularly during wartime.
As a matter of general principle, I believe there can be no doubt that criticism in time of war is essential to the maintenance of any kind of democratic government ... too many people desire to suppress criticism simply because they think that it will give some comfort to the enemy to know that there is such criticism. If that comfort makes the enemy feel better for a few moments, they are welcome to it as far as I am concerned, because the maintenance of the right of criticism in the long run will do the country maintaining it a great deal more good than it will do the enemy, and will prevent mistakes which might otherwise occur. - Sen. Taft (R-OH) December 19, 1942
So, the next time a rabid right winger claims that opposition to the war is unpatriotic and treasonous, remind them that as Germany rolled through Europe, Japan rolled through the Pacific, and before the fires of Pearl Harbor were extinguished it was conservative Republicans that took the lead in opposing FDR and the American entry into WWII.
Like the Nuernberg Trial after WWII or the Internat'al criminalThe Hague Court..sm
what good does it make to show the torture picture to the public? None.
Any of you live in the midwest? Just in case you live down the road from me...
I live in Wisconsin and am often also in Minnesota.
No, I'm not a stalker or a weirdo (my opinion, anyway).
Yeah, tell me again how liberals want to live and let live....what a joke!!!! nm
why not just tell the truth? That only extends to liberals.*I have had it with Republicans...* a whole group of people tossed out like garbage. *I will not respond to your posts nor read them.*
As to Ann Coulter...the left has their share..Michael Moore, AL Franken...do you ever look at your own party?
That is the most INtolerant post I have seen here in a LONG time.
Liberals true colors always come out...regardless of how much they say they are the MOST tolerant, and want EVERYone to live and let live...everyone if you happen to be liberal.
We are all Americans...and America is about debate. Tell me, liberal Democrat, again how you care about ALL Americans. Talk about ringing hollow.
Not that she needs defending . . . sm
All of you haters have the nerve to call JTBB hateful? Are you kidding or extremely delusional? Don't bother -- I already know the answer to that one. First of all, just look at your comments. Very scary stuff, i must say, and extremely immature. Anybody with a brain can read the comments on this board and know who is hate-filled and it sure ain't JTBB. Should I run through the list of those on your hate list? Let's see: Democrats, homosexuals, non-Christians, anyone not American, your own President and ANYONE who has a different opinion than yours. When I read comments like these, I picture a crazed mob with pitchforks in hand out for blood! Pretty picture, huh?
As for the comment about JTBB going to the Faith board, I have read some of the very adult discussions she has had there, and they are nothing but thought-provoking, backed by historical or theological facts, and have a genuine curiosity about what Christians believe and is NEVER degrading, condescending or goading in any way, and usually the posters she engages there are likewise adult and willing to have an honest discourse without attacking or being as hateful as you people here.
"First they laughed at us...and then they died." (Hope your're proud of this very threatening comment; you should really seek some help).
"JTBB is the most bigoted voice on here." (Guess you don't listen to yourself much, do you?)
". . .no problem going to the Faith board in the hopes of goading someone into a fight."
I find most of the anger and and outright hatred expressed on this forum extremely distasteful and very disturbing and it makes me ashamed to share the same industry with people like you, as I consider the medical field to usually require a compassionate type of personality, and I see none of that here.
There is no defending this action. SM
But what makes you think this guy is a conservative? Did he say that. I read this and I don't see him making a statement. Your signs don't even begin to measure up to mine. I would have thought the cesspool DU could have come up with better than that.
I am not necessarily defending them.
I am trying to make people have a broader view of them. Gadfly seemed to be headed in that direction, but, of course, that was too much for you to bear. One mind, I know the drill. Hateful? Not at all. Truth, gt. It's called truth. It's my truth and I am sticking to it. More might be truthful with you if they weren't afraid of getting their leg chewed off to the knee. You won't argue with me, because you can't. You don't operate on logic, you operate on emotion. Kill the messenger was invented as a slogan exactly for people like you. If you move outside your comfort zone, you attack the messenger, cut them off at the knees, with an airy 'this just isn't worth discussing' or some such. Surely, I am not the first to have pointed this out to you. I won't be the last either. I have had my fill. My expectations were far too high on finding this board. I will move on along, before you revoke my privileges. As far as racism, I posted many excellent examples of it up at the top of the board, not that you would read it. I can imagine that you are the type who never reads posts, only the headings, or at the very least a line or two, and then just responds out of sheer emotion. One can do that on chat boards. How you get away with it in life, I have an idea. I won't say it here though, lest you endanger yourself with a stroke at hearing the truth.
Geez. Of course I would be defending her....
her wealth has NOTHING to do with it. She is a first-time offender. You hate her because she is rich, that's obvious. I don't care how much money she has or does not have. She is a first offender. She should be treated like any other first offender. Barack Obama AND John McCain are for rehab, not incarceration, for first-time offenders. Neither of them tie it to wealth. Barack Obama is a millionaire. What if we were talking about Michelle Obama instead of Cindy McCain? You would be screaming at the top of your lungs to defend Michelle Obama and guess what...SO WOULD I. Even though I don't want her husband to be President and even though they are RICH. Your bias is showing.
defending these thugs? Wow,
nm
Defending Obama
He does not really need defending. He is out there for all to see. There will always be a fringe element passing along conspiracy theories and innuendo -- that's what the Atwaters of the world depend on. The sensible majority has spoken and Obama was elected. I have noticed that traffic at this site has dropped drastically since the neocons were so soundly trounced. I would expect that the few remaining will eventually run out of gas as Obama continues to forge ahead with his principled approach to the country's problems. Future's so bright I have to wear shades. Obama and Michelle interviewed by Barbara Walters tonight - a happy pre-Thanksgiving treat.
I'm not defending Republicans. sm
If Bush were still President, they would sign the bill. Both sides are bunch of rats to me.
None of you are doing a good job in defending
nm
Anyone defending what Garofalo said the other day
nm
stop defending the rich
Either you are rich or a fool..Do you actually think the rich are defending us the way you are defending them? We need to take care of the people who carry America on their backs, the middle class. The rich could not care less about us. They dont even know the workings of every day life. I have an extremely well off friend..he does not use credit cards..pays with cash..told me I should just pay with cash for my new Jeep that I bought a few years ago instead of monthly payments..yeah, right, LOL..thanks for the advice...moon beam..he never even used an ATM..thinks being rich is justified cause they can show us Renoir paintings (as when Bellagio had Steve Wynns paintings on show), they can show the little people the beauty of life..Oh geez..the rich do not even realize that the middle class exists..other than to work at their companies and factories, so they can stay rich.
Not defending violent protesters, but for the 10,000 others
nm
It gets tiring defending her too, but some people are
nm
I too am for defending innocent animals
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. ALL animals should be treated in a humane fashion.
I am offended that people will defend wildlife and endangered species but they think nothing of eating meat and animals that have been treated cruelly.
How can you say it's cruel to hunt animals, but you don't think it's cruel how chickens, cattle, pigs and other animals are treated before you (no, not you personally because I don't know if your a vegetarian) but people who are not vegetarians will think nothing and don't care how the animals they are eating are being treated.
He called you a 'crone', why do you keep defending him?...nm
nm
No. I love the country side in Alabama...I'm a country girl...nm
So you have nothing to offer when it comes to defending Bennett's statements...sm
as you posted earlier that they were taken out of context. When asked to enlighten us on the context, you instead want to take Zauber to task. I know why, because there is no defense for these statements and a sound minded person wouldn't even try. Even the dupes on capitol hill are criticizing the statements.
No, you're too busy defending an incompetent
I am not defending the thugs. Read my post again. Thanks.
nm
Thank the dems for defending Freddie, Fannie,etc.
nm
Yes, he died
He rose again and He lives today in the hearts of those who are His faithful. No one is forcing Him on you, that is your free choice...which He gives to you.
Read on down. Some posters below are defending Bennett's remarks...sm
so while you may feel they are wrong, which I think the white house was right to condemn them. BENNETT having served in two high positions, Secretary of education and over drugs under Bush Sr with these views, is worrisome.
I think his true *colors* are shining through.
Tell me how many people have died
in Iraq compared to Vietnam? We have lost 1,700 soldiers in Iraq compared to what, nearly 100,000 or more in Vietnam. Give us a break. Nobody believed it before the 2004 election. Why do you all keep spouting the same unsubtantiated crap over and over? It really makes you all look stupid. I'm beginning to wonder if the left has any original thoughts. You all sound like clones of each other. EVERY milestone for Iraq has been met thus far. We turned sovereignty over to the Iraqi's and they've had elections. They are re-building infrastructure at an alarming rate....Iraq is a success. The loser John Kerry put out a letter today stating that we needed to have definite goals in Iraq. Everytime John Kerry said we couldn't accomplish something in Iraq we did!! John Kerry doesn't know when to shut up and realize "he lost", but obviously thinks he's a contender for 2008...I almost feel sorry for the guy...almost.
Sure there are insurgents, but the damage they ar inflicting is minimal....and yes, there are Iraqi's who LOVE Americans, believe it or not. I live near a military base, and several soliders have told me how the Iraqi people cry when they leave.
You can believe all the crap the media is telling you, but your precious Downing Street Memo is not evidence of anything. Bush has not been proven to lie, period. You can say it all you want, but it doesn't make it true. The little fairy tales the left make up about Bush and then get their buddies in the media to echo are just that "fairy tales."
Some of them are in Iraq. And some of them have died. sm
The issue of illegal immigration has been around way long than Bush's term in office. While I do agree it is an even bigger problem with terrorism looming, this was something that should have been addressed long long ago.
Father died at age 70 nm
nm
It died once before, remember? And the once
(which the dear ol' boys in the 'Pub-Club' want to get rid of, remember?), Wall St. and the USA did even better than before. It collapsed because of a major flaw, and too much GREED. The same things we're faced with today. I can survive a Depression just fine. I'm an MT, and we're already experiencing one.
how dare you say that anyone died for no...
reason!!!? Saddam was a terrible mass murderer and needed to be taken care of. We should have never let it get this far. I am sure that the men and women who died did not think that it was for no reason.
And I am right there with you, my Mom is 90, my dad died last year, my mom........sm
after paying for her wonderful Part D in addition to her Medicare to cover them was left with a few hundreds of thousands of dollars for his care, like antibiotics, like respiratory therapy for his pneumonia which he acquired from the surgery, like weeks in the ICU and RICU.......my Dad's life savings gone in a heartbeat, literally. Yes, so much better!!!
working poor and middle class need defending not rich
Believe me, the rich do not need to be defended. They are getting along just fine and can pay for the best defense in the world. Debating about how the rich should have their money, on and on..if anyone needs defending, it is the working poor and the middle class whose salary for the past five years has gone down, not increased.
You've got to be kidding me? Defending their actions and blaming on Bush?
Sure, they have a right to be "activists" and to march and to protest. They do not have a right to smash in windows and vandalize property. What's worse is that many of these are not ativists. They have NO IDEA what they are protesting against. Ask them who the vice president of our country is, they can't tell you. They are young foolish kids who think it's fun to be out there causing trouble and posing as "activists" with a cause. It's rather inane to equate these things with true activists.
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