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Marmann...... Don't know if you will even read this....... sm

Posted By: m on 2008-11-29
In Reply to: I'm willing to give the man a fair chance... - Marmann

but I just wanted to respond to a couple of things you said.

First off, I'm not a big Bush supporter, but he is our President and there's not a whole lot I can do about that. I will say, though, that there was not a question of Bush's citizenship before he even got into office to create for him the stumbling block that Obama is facing. To roughly paraphrase Obama in a speech he gave upon entering the US Senate in late 2004, he stated when asked about plans to run for President that he did not believe in hiring an unqualified person for job and that he himself was not qualified to serve as POTUS. Yet, 143 days later, he suddenly decided that he is qualified after making a couple of Senate speeches and barely raising the blip on the radar during his career thus far.

If the SC does overturn the popular vote, I agree, there will be h-e-double toothpicks to pay in terms of civil unrest, the likes this country has probably never seen before. However, OTOH, the thought of sending an unqualified individual (his words) into the highest office in the land and possibly the most powerful in the world conjures up images of not just civil unrest within our country but global unrest when he brings to pass the items on his agenda, of which I am reserving further comment on at this time.

In all honesty, I sincerely hope that your last statement will be proven true. If Obama is deemed qualified, inasmuch as his birth certificate (let's just put aside his own statement), I sincerely do hope that he is the best POTUS we could have put in, because anything less will prove disastrous for our country.

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Well said Marmann
This is one post I definitely agree with you on. Corruption is on both sides. I don't think any one party has any right to lump the other side into one category. I say if you do the crime you do the time and it doesn't matter what political party you belong to. Name me an honest politician and I'll....well actually I don't know what I'd do. HA HA. There are just a few that are decent but that is a very few.
Hey, Marmann.
Do you ever feel like you are trying to reason with cement? That is how I feel when I respond to some of these posts.
Hello Marmann:  I too hope you will be feeling better
Marmann...the OP would be 3rd under GP's
By OP, I meant "other post." I appreciate your reply which I am still digesting and will answer soon while trying to grab a bath in the meantime!
Marmann......... sm
Please don't ever apologize for sharing. I, for one, don't mind at all and find the information fascinating and useful. CF is such a cruel disease as it does attack so many different systems and causes general havoc. I had not heard about the GI symptoms, though.

May God bless you through your illness and bring about healing for you. There is a cure out there...they just have to find it. In the meantime, be kind to yourself and take good care of yourself. I do enjoy your "discourses" (hehe) here. :o)
Thanks Marmann
Oh I've made plenty of mistakes, but I learned a long time ago it's okay to say you are wrong. Keeps us human and humble. :-)

Also, thank you for being nice to me. I've read your posts on this board and you have actually changed my mind about some issues I used to believe in. I love hearing people's different opinions because it gives me a different perspective on things and more things to research.

Anthony Hopkins is one of the greatest actors of all time. When you can make a character so real it's just amazing. Hard to separate reality from fiction sometimes.

Have a great weekend yourself.
Hey Marmann............ sm
good to see you around. I know you don't get on very often because of health issues, as you have described here, and just wanted to say I hope you are doing better.

It's funny (funny - strange, not funny = haha) how a person's opinion can change based on their life issues. I know you would give almost anything not to be in the position that you are in now, but be glad that there is some help for you out there in the form of Medicaid and other agencies. My best to you!

It is for "people like you" that others fight for Medicaid and other social programs.  The purpose is to help.  You should feel no guilt or shame at all!  You have paid your dues, you have worked for years, and if at this time in your life you need to pull on the reserve of social programs that can help, then you, of all people, deserve to recieve those benefits.  That's what its there for.

I do realize it can be difficult for people in your positions being stuck with the label of "those people," but you should know better than anyone that that is not what its about.  There are people out here who do understand your situation and also understand that most people are only one incident/misfortune away from being in that same situation. 

Hang in there and don't let it get you down. 

Thank you for that, Marmann. s/m

I agree with your assessment of JTBB's posts, as I as well find them illuminating and well researched and knew she would find this movie as intriguing as I did, as I am sure you would, and I encourage you to to check it out and let me know what you think. 

I don't post on this board very much, although I do enjoy reading it, and I very much enjoy the comments that are worthwhile and thought-provoking, (even if sometimes I don't agree), and it's pretty easy to separate out the people who actually have a brain in their heads from the people who accomplish nothing more than being snide, inconsiderate, and really just want to "stir the pot" and be insulting just to satisfy some deeply buried sense of inadequacy by feeling like they need to post a CV which in some way is supposed to prove a person has a clue about anything.

Marmann, I always enjoy your posts as well, as we are usually of the same opinion on most matters, so keep it up!!  

Marmann: s/m

When I tried to send you one through this board, your address came up, but the message said MTStars does not forward e-mail to either comcast.net or aol.com.  For some reason there have been issues with these two carriers.  I had an old work e-mail on here that I used, but I just updated it and it's now under my personal e-mail.  Are you worried about security from this website?  I'm not too worried only because our carrier seems to have pretty tight filters and I have never had any problems.  If you decide to brave it, just holla back.

At any rate, just let me know.  The discussions on here have gotten too toxic for me -- talk about swimming in a river of piranha!  LOL


Hi Marmann............. sm
Good to "see" you! Hope you are feeling okay these days.

In a nutshell, what my statement had to do with was from a biblical perspective. Israel is God's chosen people and anyone who stands against them or harms them is in danger of losing God's favor. I feel, as a country, we are rapidly losing favor with God and I don't want to see what happens when He totally removes His hand of protection from us.
yes, Marmann, sometimes it is best to
takea break to 'clear one's head.' Have a great week, too. See ya...!
Well, I try to be kind, Marmann.......... sm
sometimes I do better than other times! HAHAHA

I agree that God favors honesty in His people and I don't mean to infer that the Israelis are without fault, but I also believe that trying to take Gaza from Israel is wrong because it wase given to Judah, one of the original 12 tribes of Israel, by God through Joshua to be inhabited by His chosen people. As a Christian, one thing that I want more than anything in this world is for Christ to come back and take me home. Some Christians believe that, in order for all prophetical events to be in place for Christ's return, Israel must occupy that land that was given to the original 12 tribes as well as the temple must be rebuilt in Jerusalem which, as you may know, is in the planning stages and materials are being gathered. The main sticking point with the temple being rebuilt is that the Jews believe the Dome of the Rock occupies at least part, if not all, of the original temple site in Jerusalem.

I said all that to say this. Whether we humans see the treatment of Palestine and Isreal of each other as fair through the lens of the media or not, God sees the whole picture and He is in control.
This is a great article, Marmann........ sm
Thanks for posting it.

Way back when the primary caucuses started, I mentioned Chuck Baldwin on this board but I don't think there was a single reply, good or bad, to my post. I wish he had had a little more exposure during the campaigns and was on the ticket in all states. He was not on the ticket in Texas.

To be honest, I really believe that the reason there is so much noise being made about Obama and none about what Bush has done while in office is that most people, myself included, are not aware of all the intricacies of the US Constitution. It is a very intricate document and most American people are only aware of what they had been taught in high-school or college civics classes and not tne entire document along with the US Code which is the law that helps fill in the spaces and further explain the Constitution. Even if there was an awareness on the part of the majority of the people, most would have been reluctant to bring any law suits against Bush due to the fact that we are (were) mired in Iraq and facing challenges on our homefront as well. Bush managed to get us through 9/11 in a way that made us all feel safe. While things might have gone kind of downhill after that with his administration, most people likely did not want to rock the boat and risk showing America as being weakened by the impeachment of her President. This is not said to excuse Bush's actions but just rather to explain how this American feels about the whole situation, and I doubt I am really alone in my feelings.

Now that a precident has been set with the Obama B/C situation, Americans seem to have awakened and started paying more attention to what is going on in our government and researching and finding out what the Constitution really says and not just what the media tells us. Maybe in 2012, Baldwin (or another Constitutional Party nominee) will step up to the plate and campaign more aggressively and win the presidency. It's time someone started running this country the way it was intended to be run.
Way to go, Marmann, I find it reprehensible
for someone so cowardly as to personally attack you for your opinion.  Just another perfect example of the quality (or lack of) people supporting the McPalin regime. 
To Marmann, Linda and others - see information
Please, PLEASE do not always think snopes is correct. They have been wrong on many occasions. Just type in "has snopes ever been wrong" in Google and many links come up to show they have been wrong. Snopes is run by Barbara and David Mikkelson, a California couple who met through an folklore urban newsgroup. And there is no credible sources whatsoever on snopes to prove that this is false. And being from California who are huge Obama supporters...well how convenient they just happen to have this website and can put up information without credible sources and everyone believes them???

To others - If there was "nothing" to this story, Barack would not have been ordered by one of the supreme court justices to submit his original birth certificate which he never did. The phony birth certificate that the Annenberg foundation (P.S. the Annenberg foundation is a staunch supporter of Obama) claims is his birth certificate has too many flaws on it.

I know a lot of Obama supporters are trying to push this under the carpet and pretend it never happened and try to debunk anyone trying to search for the truth.

The truth is that the actual birth certificate was never submitted. And like one of the posters said below "Obama has not shown it. He does not have it and the hospital has no record of birth certificate" the copy they have I do believe will prove he was born in Kenya. If he had it and it was valid he would show it, not have it legally hidden away so that NOBODY can view it. Brother! Talk about sending out red flags. Anyone with any sense can see there is something very wrong with this. If he was legal he would have shown the real certificate a long time ago and proved the "so called rumors" to be false. But because he hasn't anyone with any sense has got to wonder why. Why isn't he showing the true certificate? Why did the DNC give him a pass without checking it out? Who is backing him? Why was he legally allowed to secure the certificate? Too many why's.

But to have the supreme court involved. They don't take "bogus" cases, so there must be something valid to the claim that it will show he was born in Kenya to an American woman and African father and became an Indonesia citizen (and we don't know if he ever applied for US Citizenship).

We will soon find out (I hope). If he does not provide proof then everything he does as a president will mean nothing because it will all be invalid.
I wish you well Marmann and good health
We may not agree on politics but I wish you all the best in whatever you are going through. Hope you won't have a long hospital stay. Take care.
I hope you feel better soon, Marmann.nm

Marmann, you're usually smarter than this....sm
You know that Cheney had to give up all interests in this company before becoming VP...he is also in no way responsible for this happening.

And I agree with the previous poster....you've gotten way out of hand with your hatred of Pres. Bush.

I wonder, when Obama is president, and things of this nature occur.....are you going to blame him, just as you are blaming Bush?

I think not...more's the pity....in your eyes, Obama can/will do no wrong.
I have to beg to differ with you on one point, Marmann.......... sm
Biracial offspring have existed in this country for many, many years, dating back to the days of slavery when white slave owners would take a slave to be their mistress or even rape an unwilling black slave just because they could. It has even been said that Thomas Jefferson fathered children by one of his slaves. And if Obama was born in Hawaii as he says he was, the culture there was much different than the mainland US, even though there were miscegenation laws in place at the time of his birth. If I understand Obama's family history correctly, his mother and father did not live together in the US, with the possible exception of Hawaii, during their marriage. Most, if not all of their marriage, was lived out in Indonesia.

But I digress........

Whether the man in the White House is black, white or another race or any combination thereof is of no consequence to me. The qualifications based on the Constitution and experience and knowledge to effectively and safely lead America are first and foremost and should be on the mind of every voting American.

Thank you, Marmann - funny not too many people here had anything to say about THAT..

Excellent post Marmann!!! nm

Marmann - what a great post
Well thought out and worded very well. I hoped for so much from someone who hadn't been in the DC crowd for years and years, but each day am disappointed more and more. I enjoyed the fresh ideas he presented. But, everything has changed from the campaign. It's heartbreaking to see our country headed the same way Germany was with WWII, being run by the same kind of leader.

I do believe you and are I starting to agree on many issues. For me, when I voted for the O I had hoped that things would finally turn around for our country. But slowly any "hope" he offered kept dwindling away. There is no reason to hope anymore because it's just getting worse. He's kept his promise of "change", but he portrayed change for the good, and as we're waking up we are realizing, this is not change for the good. It's getting worse. But he does have quite a way with the words and still makes some people feel good about getting "screwed". But I do not blame the O. He is simply a puppet for the people who are really running the country. He is just a "bearer of bad news". Unfortunately he will be the "fall guy". My best guess is if things keep going this way, he will be a one-term failed present just like J. Carter and Bush Sr. That is of course if they don't change the laws and he be allowed to stay in for 3, 4, 5 or more terms. Don't think they would do it? Well we never thought the constitution would be changed either.
Marmann, I think you need to do a little history review....
Marmann: Would you mind if I sent you an e-mail? s/m
I already tried, but MT Stars will not deliver to your server, which also happens to be my server as well.  I would like to continue an intelligent rational conversation with a grownup and it is just not possible on this board.  LOL
Correct Marmann, and as MTs this will help our pay rate and jobs sm
If companies are rewarded for staying in the U.S., bye bye philipines and barbados and india for MT cheapo transcription. Hello USA hard working MTs finally making DECENT MONEY.
AND.... getting tax breaks.
You made plenty sense, Marmann.... sm
I hope you feel better soon!
For Marmann's post below..... "big corporations

Why aren't you more concerned about how Obama made 2.7 million dollars last year but claims they are still paying off their student loans?  Pleeze!  That is definitely "selective ignorance" if ever I saw it.  He claims he made most of the 2.7 million on the sell of his books.............. yea, right!   I guess you believe that too! 

AND you don't think for one minute he has the best little 'ol CPA he can find (crooked or whatever) finding him all kinds of loopholes for his big bucks?  Funny you don't seem to care what the leader of your country is doing with his big bucks and where he has his big bucks invested and with what corporations; the same ones he is bailing out big time!    Get a clue!

For Marmann's post below..... "big corporations

Why aren't you more concerned about how Obama made 2.7 million dollars last year but claims they are still paying off their student loans?  Pleeze!  That is definitely "selective ignorance" if ever I saw it.  He claims he made most of the 2.7 million on the sell of his books.............. yea, right!   I guess you believe that too! 

AND you don't think for one minute he has the best little 'ol CPA he can find (crooked or whatever) finding him all kinds of loopholes for his big bucks?  Funny you don't seem to care what the leader of your country is doing with his big bucks and where he has his big bucks invested and with what corporations; the same ones he is bailing out big time!    Get a clue.  Oh no, let's not go there!

For Marmann's post below..... "big corporations

Why aren't you more concerned about how Obama made 2.7 million dollars last year but claims they are still paying off their student loans?  Pleeze!  That is definitely "selective ignorance" if ever I saw it.  He claims he made most of the 2.7 million on the sell of his books.............. yea, right!   I guess you believe that too! 

AND you don't think for one minute he has the best little 'ol CPA he can find (crooked or whatever) finding him all kinds of loopholes for his big bucks?  Funny you don't seem to care what the leader of your country is doing with his big bucks and where he has his big bucks invested and with what corporations; the same ones he is bailing out big time!    Get a clue.  Oh no, let's not go there!

Watch out, Marmann, here I come kissing your butt again! s/m

You are so right in your description of yellow jackets!  Just a bunch of brainless aggressors that attack blindly and viciously.  LOL

I am enjoying this very much and find it oh so entertaining!  Mob mentality is the only fitting way to describe these people.  I just haven't figured out if it's just mental defectiveness, self-loathing or just plain needing a good 'ole roll in the sheets!!  

Wow, usually people that work in the same industry find a common kinship and are very supportive of each other.  Sadly, I don't feel any kinship with a lot of these people.  In fact, I go out of my way to avoid people like this because their joy is killing other people's joy and that's a "disease" I just don't want to catch!  Besides, I have a feeling that all the negative posts on this thread are all done by the same person.  It must be awkward to be so socially inept.

I look forward to more posts by you and JTBB and, disturbingly, to the putrid spewing that will then ensue!!    Bring it own, bee-atches!

Happy Thanksgiving right back atcha, Marmann
Hope you're feeling better.
thanks, Marmann, I miss JTBB, hasn't post since yesterday evening, you o.k?..nm
This looks interesting. A long read, so will read it when I get home from work. nm
Obviously u didnt read, I said NONE of them are moral. Read the post before spouting off.

I read on CNN (yes, I do read liberal stuff too..hehe)...sm
...that Karl Rove was actually very disappointed in the McCain campaign for airing negative type ads against Obama.

So I would say that Rove is definitely not in the hip pocket of the McCain campaign.
Good research sam - but a lot to read right now so gotta read it later
I've been goofing off too much from work. I appreciate what you wrote and will read when I'm done with work here.
Great, great post. Thank you, Marmann! nm
sorry, should read I did not read post that way.
All you have to do is read up on Marxism, read up on...
black liberation theology, and look at what Obama is proposing. All of it a matter of public record, most of it from his own mouth. Your denial of it does not change the facts. If you support socialism, vote for him. Certainly your right. You are already wanting to squelch any kind of dissent...what's up with that? If you seriously consider calling someone a socialist a smear, you really need to read up on your candidate. I did not post a smear, I posted a fact. Redistribution of wealth is socialist and he already said he was going to do it...I heard him say it and it is now a campaign commercial. Sigh.
Some on this board can only read what they want to read (nm)
Nan please read what I have to say

I've read your latest posts.  You fit the decription of a troll at times, but I don't really care about that.  DOesn't matter. What I do notice is that you incite other posters with calculated insults, condescension and twisted and sometimes cruel logic.  Then when the object of your insults becomes angry and lashes back you pretend to be an unfairly accused innocent and the object of someone else's crazy, uncalled-for rage.

This is compatible with borderline personality disorder. My mother had it, a brother-in-law battles it and I am all too familiar with it.

I did read it.
Not posting the whole article puts the quote out of context. It's not really a way to do things on a chat forum, but then maybe you don't post in a lot of other forums.  Those I frequent always post the whole article or at least a link. It would give you a lot more credibility.  Take it for what it's worth.
Read this...
Pandora's Box
September 22, 2005
By Ken Sanders

You have to hand it to the Bush administration. No matter how bad things might be in Iraq, and no matter how dim the prospects are for Iraq's future, Bush & Co. still manage to look the public straight in the eye, smirk, and insist that the decision to invade Iraq was a good one. Call them determined, even stubborn. Call them dishonest, perhaps delusional. Regardless, the fact is that by invading Iraq, the Bush administration opened a Pandora's Box with global consequences.

Bush and his apologists have frequently promised that the invasion of Iraq will spread democracy and stability throughout the entire Middle East. That naive declaration could not be farther from the truth. Not only is Iraq itself in the clutches of a civil war, the U.S.-led invasion threatens to destabilize the whole of the Middle East, if not the world. It may have irrevocably done so already.

By most definitions and standards, Iraq is already in the throes of civil war. Whether defined as an internal conflict resulting in at least 1,000 combat-related fatalities, five percent of which are sustained by government and rebel forces; or as organized violence designed to change the governance of a country; or as a systematic and coordinated sectarian-based conflict; the requirements of civil war have long since been satisfied.

While our television screens are saturated by images of chaos and death in Iraq, the stories beneath the images are even more disturbing. Purely sectarian attacks, largely between Iraq's Sunni and Shiite populations, have been rising dramatically for months. According to Iraqi government statistics, such targeted attacks have doubled over the past twelve months. Police in Iraq are finding scores of bodies littering the streets, bodies of people who were blindfolded or handcuffed, shot or beheaded. The Baghdad morgue is constantly overwhelmed by bodies showing tell-tale signs of torture and gradual, drawn-out, agonizing death.

In Baghdad, Sunni neighborhoods live in fear of Shiite death squads like the Iranian-backed Badr Brigade of the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI), Iraq's leading Shiite governing coalition. Such death squads operate openly, in full uniform, and with the deliberate ignorance, if not outright sanction, of the Iraqi government. On a single day in August, the bodies of 36 Sunni Arabs were found blindfolded, handcuffed, tortured and executed in a dry riverbed in the Shiite-dominated Wasit province.

At the other end, Shiites face each day burdened by the terror and trauma of being the targets of constant suicide bombings. The army and police recruits killed by suicide bombs are predominantly Shia. In Ramadi, a Sunni stronghold, Shiites are fleeing their homes, driven out by murder and intimidation. On August 17, 43 Shiites were killed by bombings at a bus stop and then at the hospital where the casualties were to be treated.

There are less-violent examples of the deepening rifts between Iraq's Sunnis and Shiites since the U.S.-led invasion. By some estimates, nearly half of the weddings performed in Baghdad before the invasion were of mixed Sunni/Shiite couples. Since the invasion and its resulting instability and strife, such mixed weddings are all but extinct. This new-found reluctance of Sunnis and Shiites to marry each other is just another indication of the increasing isolation and animosity between the two populations.

The recently finalized Iraqi constitution does little to bridge Iraq's growing sectarian divides. The culmination of sectarian feuds passing for political debates, Iraq's constitution only ratifies the sectarian divisions of the nation. In the north are the Kurds who long ago abandoned their Iraqi identity, refusing to even fly the Iraqi flag. In the south is a burgeoning Shiite Islamic state, patterned after and influenced by Iran. Both groups have divvied up Iraq's oil reserves amongst themselves. Left in the nation's oil-free center are the Sunni Arabs, dismissed as obstructionist by the Kurds and Shiites. So unconcerned are the Kurds and Shiites with a unified Iraq that they both maintain their own large and heavily-armed militias.

Of course, the constitution still has to be ratified. If it is ratified, it will likely be by a Shiite/Kurdish minority, effectively maintaining the status quo that motivates, in part, the Sunni-led insurgency. If, on the other hand, the constitution is defeated, there's little reason not to believe that the three major factions in Iraq won't resort to forcibly taking what they want. Either way, in the words of one Iraqi civilian, God help us.

The discord in Iraq is not limited to fighting between Shiites and Sunnis. In Basra, for instance, rival Shiite militia groups constantly fight each other. The notorious Badr Brigade, backed by SCIRI, have repeatedly clashed with dissident cleric Moqtada al-Sadr's Mehdi militia. The Badr Brigade frequently works in conjunction with Basra police and are suspected of recently kidnapping and killing two journalists. Suspecting that the Basra police have been infiltrated by both the Badr and Mehdi militias, the British military sent in two undercover operatives to make arrests. The British operatives were themselves arrested by the Basra police. When the British went to liberate their men, they found themselves exchanging fire with the Basra police, their heretofore allies, and smashing through the prison walls with armored vehicles.

Iraqis aren't merely growing increasingly alienated from each other, as well as progressively opposed to coalition forces. Iraq's estrangement from the rest of the Middle East and the Arab world is widening as well. Seen more and more as a proxy of the Iranian government, the Shiite/Kurd dominated Iraq finds itself at odds with the Sunni-dominated Middle East. For instance, since the U.S.-led invasion, not a single Middle East nation has sent an ambassador to Baghdad. And, despite promises to do so, the Arab League (of which Iraq was a founder) has yet to open a Baghdad office.

There are, clearly, many reasons other than sectarianism for Iraq's estrangement from the Middle East and Arab nations, security being the foremost. However, Iraqi diplomacy, or lack thereof, is also to blame. From chiding Qatar for sending aid to Katrina victims but not to Iraq, to arguing with Kuwait over border issues, to blaming Syria for the insurgency, Iraq's fledgling government seems to have taken diplomacy lessons from the Bush administration. In fact, with the exception of Iran, Iraq has butted heads recently with nearly every Middle East nation.

Iraq's constitution hasn't won it any friends in the Arab world, either. For instance, Iraq drew strong condemnation from the Arab world when a draft of its constitution read that just its Arab people are part of the Arab nation. Only after the outcry from the Arab League and numerous Arab nations, did Iraq change its constitution's offending language. (The argument by Bush's apologists that the Iraqi constitution's alleged enshrinement of democratic principles threatens neighboring countries is unconvincing. Syria and Egypt both have constitutions that guarantee political and individual freedoms. In practice, however, such guarantees have proven meaningless. Why, then, should they feel threatened?)

Iraq's varied relationships with Middle Eastern nations will be immeasurably significant should Iraq descend further into civil war. For example, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Jordan would most likely come to the support of Iraq's Sunnis. (There are already signs that the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq has impacted Saudi Arabia's Sunni population. According to a recent study, the invasion of Iraq has radicalized previously non-militant Saudis, sickened by the occupation of an Arab nation by non-Arabs.) Iran would only increase its already staunch support for Iraq's Shiites. Turkey would also likely be drawn in, hoping to prevent any Kurdish success in Iraq from spilling across its border. Moreover, Iraq's violent Sunni-Shiite discord could easily spark similar strife in Middle East countries like Bahrain, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia.

In such a worst-case scenario, Iraq's instability would spread and infect an already unstable region. If the Gulf region were to further destabilize, so too would the global economy as oil prices would skyrocket, plunging the U.S. and so many others into recession.

Put another way, Bush's illegal, ill-conceived, short-sighted, and naive venture in Iraq could reasonably result in total chaos in not just Iraq and the Middle East, but the world over.

A Pandora's Box, if there ever was one.
Sorry, but can you read?
pizza. Don't you think they've thought of moving? It isn't always practical to simply uproot. In this case, there is an elderly family member and children. Again, from the throne passing judgement.

This makes no sense: I'm talking about a certain segment of our society who refuse to learn, refuse to work, and who YOU wish to bring up to an equal place as the rest of society who works hard and earns what they have. Huh? You still missed the point...good grief.

I read that. And then MT goes on

to criticize you for suggesting that posters visit eXtremely Political and is aghast at the post that calls for shooting someone who doesn't agree...... she just FAILS to mention that it's a NEOCON who wants to shoot LIBERALS!!!

This is what she wrote:

Sorry, had to answer this one.  There have a Whine to Management option.  That is PERFECT for gt.  Talking about shooting other posters, atheism and porno.  Yeah, that's a great place alright.  And now they have THE gt as a member.  Does it get any better than that.  Although, my thoughts are they won't suffer her long.  Those people are pirrhanas.

Well, if that ain't the pirrhana calling the shark hungry!

Perhaps you need to read
No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor... otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief... All men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain their opinions in matters of religion, and... the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities. --Thomas Jefferson: Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779. ME 2:302, Papers 2:546

Our civil rights have no dependence upon our religious opinions more than our opinions in physics or geometry. --Thomas Jefferson: Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779. ME 2:301, Papers 2:545

We have no right to prejudice another in his civil enjoyments because he is of another church. --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Religion, 1776. Papers 1:546

I am for freedom of religion, and against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendency of one sect over another. --Thomas Jefferson to Elbridge Gerry, 1799. ME 10:78

Religion is a subject on which I have ever been most scrupulously reserved. I have considered it as a matter between every man and his Maker in which no other, and far less the public, had a right to intermeddle. --Thomas Jefferson to Richard Rush, 1813.

I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others. --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Dowse, 1803. ME 10:378

Our particular principles of religion are a subject of accountability to God alone. I inquire after no man's, and trouble none with mine. --Thomas Jefferson to Miles King, 1814. ME 14:198

and many more: http://www.theology.edu/journal/volume2/ushistor.htm
You need to read that again.
Yes, it is US law, according to the Constitution.

The United States signed the UN Charter -- which is a treaty. Let me repeat:

Article VI of the U.S. Constitution makes treaties into which the U.S. has entered the supreme Law of the Land.

In other words, we made a treaty with a bunch of other countries to abide by certain rules, including the use of force. Since we entered into this treaty with the UN, that makes it the supreme Law of the Land -- US Law.

Sure, you can say, So what? Nobody's going to take us to court. We can do anything we want. But if we as a country aren't going to respect our agreements with other countries and our own laws, why should anybody else? Nobody is above the law, right?

By the way, I think we were fully justified in invading Afghanistan.

I have read this...

So what. At one point you say he was involved with AIM and had a lackey break someone's arm. Now you are providing us with an article that disavows any connection with AIM at all. Which is it? Could it be that some folks who were involved with AIM in the late 60s early 70s are no longer involved, or are dead or have had major disagreements along the way about what should be done. Banks, Russell Means and Peltier don't even speak to each other any more. That is sad, in my opinion. Trudell, on the other hand, is still around. (I had the pleasure of meeting him last Saturday in Hollywood Florida at the Native American Music Awards) and still fights the good fight although his wife and children were burned to death in an FBI arson. There is a video, called simply Trudell. It has aired on PBS stations. It is also available from Trudell's web site. It you get a chance, see it. There is so much information out there that no one seems to care much about as regards the American Indian from Columbus to today. The history is always written by the victor and the American Indian history is distorted.