"She" made it easy for "you" to lose control of yourself? sm

• Is there anyone on this board who has no savings...sm - nm
  • I thought I was the only one who thought - s/m
    • gee, ask the people on the MetroLink train out in LA the other week...sm - sm
      • Oh, c'mon, Grandma Gertie... it was a friggin' - FIGURE OF SPEECH, ' kay?
        • oh c'mon............sm - sm
          • Please grow a brain. Look up what the - figure-of-speech, 'train-wreck' means.
            • Grow your own. It's stuck in your little poor me world...nm - nm
              • Believe what you want. I still hope it crashes. - I want BLOOD & GORE on Wall St.
                • unbelievable - cj
                • at least you admitted it. -
                  • 'Wall Street". NOT "trains". - 'K ?
  • What I find so dang ironic about this bailout... - sam
    • bail out.. Amen, sam. Disgusted with - linda
      • That's EXACTLY what the gov't. should do to - those guys. And if they don't, -sm
      • Funny you should mention Enron.... - sam
        • yeah, and they politically - linda
  • I have $32 dollars in savings - sbMT
  • If $34 is savings, then yes, I have some. LOL (nm) - Backwards typist
  • I don't agree with the bailout - sm
    • only 24% of us support the bailout - dk
      • I know that lot of people hate Rush, but this is his take. sm - MT and worn out
        • Wouldn't it be cool if you could get EVERY - VOTER in the United States - sm
          • the voters don't decide the election- sm - cj
          • the death of Wall Street is the death of the USA...you really want that????? nm - nm
            • It died once before, remember? And the once - a few regulations were in place -sm
              • you obviously don't know .... - cj
              • Like I said above, you have no idea what you're wishing for....nm - nm
                • And like I said above, you're pathetically too - concrete in your thinking.
                  • tag your it -
                    • Wow - sm - ;p
                      • Figures. Eventually, there's name calling from you. Twice. You must be proud. nm -
                        • Sorry, you just make it 'way too EASY. - Y not paint a target on ur back?
                          • "She" made it easy for "you" to lose control of yourself? sm - amazing
                          • I just can't think of a snappy comeback...so you win...ciao..... - .
                            • Arrivederci. - n/m

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Title of you post is lifted straight out of TT112OldTimer's post responding to Free Speech Rocks.  When spinning soooo out of control that the brain becomes blank, you can always resort to plagiary.  Hello.  Are you listening?  Vitriol out, vitriol in.  You might be shocked by how much respect you earn with just the simple gesture of extending some.  Respect is NOT a 4-letter word. 

Common sense is exactly what I used when I decided to attack my own bigoted tendencies back when I was still a teenager.  I did not learn any of that from books or courses I took in school.  I took it to the streets and reaped benefits beyond measure from those lessons. 

Au contraire.  The bluster of bigots is easy to bury under fact and logic.  No need to be thwarted by that.  Their reservoir of insults runs very shallow, but the intellect is a well that one can dig as deep as is necessary.  Fact/truth is another arch-enemy of the bigot.  You at least had the wisdom not to attempt to ridicule the context post since you knew you would be in way over your head and besides, you are allergic to the other side of the coin.  As they say, if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.   It can’t be much fun to find yourself dumbfounded by your own narrow mind.  Frustrating too...remember it well. 

On the shortcut post:  That was your snipe, not mine.  Snipe begets tripe.  Vtriol out/vitriol in.  Garbage out/garbage in.  Is there an echo in here? 

Not the slightest bit interested in agreement, validation or vindication.  I am secure enough by now not to need all of that.  But in political contexts, the journey down the road to consensus will never begin in the absence of flexibility, open-mindedness and a good dose of patience.        

What part of my posts reflect your tactics do you not understand?  You absolutely refuse to look at yourself in the mirror, but you do know enough to be outranged when someone sends you your own reflection.  It’s not a pretty sight and furthermore, you become every bit as enraged as you seem to think I am.  You are constitutionally incapable of seeing what a spiteful little vixen you become when your brick-wall logic is thrown back in you face. 

No surprise there.  Bigotry is always blind.  Here’s another example you are bound to ignore:  You are so driven by your hatred of illegals that you would actually weigh in on the side of transnationals and cast your vote for the party who empowers them to outsource your profession overseas and drive your own wages into the ground.  

Well shut my mouth!  Could it be that you have finally run out of insults in the face of the realities of logic and have arrived on the threshold of the next level where most other right-wingers eventually find themselves...running for the hills and back into the open arms of the choir members?  You are big on cliché.  Here’s one for you...you can run, but you can’t hide.  Have a safe journey and I am “sending up a prayer” that you find the sanctuary you seek. 

I've earned through my hard work to give to some lazy bum who would rather mooch than work for a living.  I'm not willing to lose my freedom.  To me....it seems like government wants to take control over more things and when will it end. 

I do not support our president because I do not believe his goals and agenda will help anyone who really needs the help.  It will continue to enable moochers to keep on mooching.  It will hurt charities by taxing the rich.....who, BTW, are the biggest donators to charities.  It will hurt businesses by taxing them more and in turn they will cut back and lay off workers, not hire more employees.  Cap and trade will hurt everyone as gas prices will sore, utility costs will sky rocket, and the price for all goods and services will go up.  That doesn't help people who have to decide which is more imporant....gas to get to work or food to put on the table. 

To stand by and let these things happen because we support our country and just have to see how things come together......to me that is just ignorant.  That is how we ended up in this situation in the first place.  We supported our country and put our trust in government (dems and pubs alike) and we ended up getting it stuck to us. 

Geraldine Ferraro.  Gore and Lieberman, etc.

Both Suzy Orman and Jim Cramer were on the Today show and they thought it was a good deal which, I might add, surprised me.

I wonder what will happen now.

There goes my 401K!

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-allsaints7nov07,0,592419,full.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Antiwar Sermon Brings IRS Warning

All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena risks losing its tax-exempt status because of a former rector's remarks in 2004.

By Patricia Ward Biederman and Jason Felch
Times Staff Writers

November 7, 2005

The Internal Revenue Service has warned one of Southern California's largest and most liberal churches that it is at risk of losing its tax-exempt status because of an antiwar sermon two days before the 2004 presidential election.

Rector J. Edwin Bacon of All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena told many congregants during morning services Sunday that a guest sermon by the church's former rector, the Rev. George F. Regas, on Oct. 31, 2004, had prompted a letter from the IRS.

In his sermon, Regas, who from the pulpit opposed both the Vietnam War and 1991's Gulf War, imagined Jesus participating in a political debate with then-candidates George W. Bush and John Kerry. Regas said that good people of profound faith could vote for either man, and did not tell parishioners whom to support.

But he criticized the war in Iraq, saying that Jesus would have told Bush, Mr. President, your doctrine of preemptive war is a failed doctrine. Forcibly changing the regime of an enemy that posed no imminent threat has led to disaster.

On June 9, the church received a letter from the IRS stating that a reasonable belief exists that you may not be tax-exempt as a church … The federal tax code prohibits tax-exempt organizations, including churches, from intervening in political campaigns and elections.

The letter went on to say that our concerns are based on a Nov. 1, 2004, newspaper article in the Los Angeles Times and a sermon presented at the All Saints Church discussed in the article.

The IRS cited The Times story's description of the sermon as a searing indictment of the Bush administration's policies in Iraq and noted that the sermon described tax cuts as inimical to the values of Jesus.

As Bacon spoke, 1984 Nobel Peace Prize winner Archbishop Desmond Tutu, a co-celebrant of Sunday's Requiem Eucharist, looked on.

We are so careful at our church never to endorse a candidate, Bacon said in a later interview.

One of the strongest sermons I've ever given was against President Clinton's fraying of the social safety net.

Telephone calls to IRS officials in Washington, D.C., and Los Angeles were not returned.

On a day when churches throughout California took stands on both sides of Proposition 73, which would bar abortions for minors unless parents are notified, some at All Saints feared the politically active church had been singled out.

I think obviously we were a bit shocked and dismayed, said Bob Long, senior warden for the church's oversight board. We felt somewhat targeted.

Bacon said the church had retained the services of a Washington law firm with expertise in tax-exempt organizations.

And he told the congregation: It's important for everyone to understand that the IRS concerns are not supported by the facts.

After the initial inquiry, the church provided the IRS with a copy of all literature given out before the election and copies of its policies, Bacon said.

But the IRS recently informed the church that it was not satisfied by those materials, and would proceed with a formal examination. Soon after that, church officials decided to inform the congregation about the dispute.

In an October letter to the IRS, Marcus Owens, the church's tax attorney and a former head of the IRS tax-exempt section, said, It seems ludicrous to suggest that a pastor cannot preach about the value of promoting peace simply because the nation happens to be at war during an election season.

Owens said that an IRS audit team had recently offered the church a settlement during a face-to-face meeting.

They said if there was a confession of wrongdoing, they would not proceed to the exam stage. They would be willing not to revoke tax-exempt status if the church admitted intervening in an election.

The church declined the offer.

Long said Bacon is fond of saying it's a sin not to vote, but has never told anyone how to vote. We don't do that. We preach to people how to vote their values, the biblical principles.

Regas, who was rector of All Saints from 1967 to 1995, said in an interview that he was surprised by the IRS action and then I became suspicious, suspicious that they were going after a progressive church person.

Regas helped the current church leadership collect information for the IRS on his sermon and the church's policies on involvement in political campaigns.

Some congregants were upset that a sermon citing Jesus Christ's championing of peace and the poor was the occasion for an IRS probe.

I'm appalled, said 70-year-old Anne Thompson of Altadena, a professional singer who also makes vestments for the church.

In a government that leans so heavily on religious values, that they would pull a stunt like this, it makes me heartsick.

Joe Mirando, an engineer from Burbank, questioned whether the 3,500-member church would be under scrutiny if it were not known for its activism and its liberal stands on social issues.

The question is, is it politically motivated? he said. That's the underlying feeling of everyone here. I don't have enough information to make a decision, but there's a suspicion.

Bacon revealed the IRS investigation at both morning services. Until his announcement, the mood of the congregation had been solemn because the services remembered, by name, those associated with the church who had died since last All Saints Day.

Regas' 2004 sermon imagined how Jesus would admonish Bush and Kerry if he debated them. Regas never urged parishioners to vote for one candidate over the other, but he did say that he believes Jesus would oppose the war in Iraq, and that Jesus would be saddened by Bush's positions on the use and testing of nuclear weapons.

In the sermon, Regas said, President Bush has led us into war with Iraq as a response to terrorism. Yet I believe Jesus would say to Bush and Kerry: 'War is itself the most extreme form of terrorism. President Bush, you have not made dramatically clear what have been the human consequences of the war in Iraq.'

Later, he had Jesus confront both Kerry and Bush: I will tell you what I think of your war: The sin at the heart of this war against Iraq is your belief that an American life is of more value than an Iraqi life. That an American child is more precious than an Iraqi baby. God loathes war.

If Jesus debated Bush and Kerry, Regas said, he would say to them, Why is so little mentioned about the poor?''

In his own voice, Regas said: ''The religious right has drowned out everyone else. Now the faith of Jesus has come to be known as pro-rich, pro-war and pro-American…. I'm not pro-abortion, but pro-choice. There is something vicious and violent about coercing a woman to carry to term an unwanted child.

When you go into the voting booth, Regas told the congregation, take with you all that you know about Jesus, the peacemaker. Take all that Jesus means to you. Then vote your deepest values.

Owens, the tax attorney, said he was surprised that the IRS is pursuing the case despite explicit statements by Regas that he was not trying to influence the congregation's vote.

I doubt it's politically motivated, Owens said. I think it is more a case of senior management at IRS not paying attention to what the rules are.

According to Owens, six years ago the IRS used to send about 20 such letters to churches a year. That number has increased sharply because of the agency's recent delegation of audit authority to agents on the front lines, he said.

He knew of two other churches, both critical of government policies, that had received similar letters, Owens said.

It's unclear how often the IRS raises questions about the tax-exempt status of churches.

While such action is rare, the IRS has at least once revoked the charitable designation of a church.

Shortly before the 1992 presidential election, a church in Binghamton, N.Y., ran advertisements against Bill Clinton's candidacy, and the tax agency ruled that the congregation could not retain its tax-exempt status because it had intervened in an election.

Bacon said he thought the IRS would eventually drop its case against All Saints.

It is a social action church, but not a politically partisan church, he said.

Hillary's supporters like General Wesley Clark and others are starting to come out now in full force making statements that are not favorable towards Barack.  Even though Clark's statements are true (just cos you are shot down in an aircraft doesn't mean your qualified to be President) but it doesn't help in getting your party elected to the white house.  I knew she was going to do it so that McCain would win and because he's so weak he'll only be in four years then she and Bill will run again in 4 years.  I just didn't know how she was planning it until I watched the news this a.m.  She is such a skum bag in my opinion.  The worry of having to listen to her again in 4 years is enough to put me through the roof again.

thus spats out another great repub VP choice, Dan Potatoe Quayle.

McCain did himself in by choosing Palin.  It is exhibit A of his bad judgement.

It is possible.  It has happened before.  I think now especially in these final two days, when people are hearing Obama saying in a radio interview that he will bankrupt coal companies and skyrocket electricity bills, a lot of people are really wondering.  Especially the states where coal is their major industry.  They are starting to realize that a vote for the O means they'll be out of work.  Along with the birth certificate issue not being resolved, and other the other numerous questions about the O people are really wondering about him. 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081103/ap_on_el_pr/split_decision_4