As this has already been discussed
Posted By: Kim on 2008-11-18
In Reply to: What part of "you don't have a choice" don't you understand - Kaydie
I will not revisit any of the existing arguments from the other thread. I just want to point out that Obama will not be king able to make a decree on whim. A program like this, if it truly is like some are interpreting it, would have to be passed by Congress and would probably take years to implement if it did, which is doubtful. Besides, I sincerely doubt that the Dems will hold the majority at the midterm elections. I would suggest that any who are concerned about this take gourdpainter's advice posted above.
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Why is this being discussed?
This happened a long time ago. Is the point to make one party look bad and the other good? That is silly. Both parties at some point or another have made horrible decisions. Maybe I'm PMSing and emotional, but I'm a little offended by this thread. I certainly was not alive to vote those people into Congress, therefore why should I be 'punished' for something they did before I was even born. The whole thing is just very inflammatory. Why don't we discuss things that are in the present that we have some say over? Observer, I usually defend you at least a little, but you took this discussion to a hurtful place. That is an ugly time in our history and to make it sound like Democrats are responsible for it, or at least were the only ones who wanted it to continue, is very offensive. I know everyone will probably say that Bush bashing is hurtful, and maybe it is, but that is something that is happening currently that we have a right to discuss. We have the ability to vote in regards to these issues that are happening NOW.
This was discussed below.
I think it is just plain sad really. If you are white, you don't qualify for a job. If you are highly skilled, you don't qualify. Why wouldn't you want highly skilled people? That is just plain retarded right there. Things are bad enough right now that all people, including all races, are losing jobs and highly skilled people are losing jobs. Why should they be not included in this opportunity? Sounds to me like they would prefer to have unskilled minorities build stuff than highly skilled individuals. To me that suggests p*ss poor work being done and very poor management...but whatever.
Then again....we've always sort of had this problem. Companies have a certain quota of minorities they have to hire and often pick a minority with less skill and qualifications over someone who is skilled just to meet their quota of hiring minorities. So what is the point of being skilled? Once again....the dumbing down of America right there.
This is the experience currently being discussed.
Before answering the question, please read the following. This is posted in response to pub spin that would assert SP is better qualified to lead the country because of O's lack of experience. Of special note are the numerous foreign relations committee diplomatic initiatives listed below. Of course, I would be interested in any comparabl experience SP may have that the pubs can produce. I have saved this post and will be using it in reply to any similar assertions made by pubs in the future whenever I encounter them. Hope format is not too seedy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Senate_career_of_Barack_Obama
In Illinois senate O Worked to get BIPARTISAN support on legislation on:
1. Ethics reform.
2. Health care reform.
3. Sponsored bills for earned income tax credits for low-income workers.
4. Provisions for $100 million in tax cuts to families.
5. Provisions for early childhood education.
6. Welfare reform.
7. Childcare subsidies.
8. Funding for churches and community groups.
9. Chairman of the Health and Human Services Committee.
10. Instituted requirement for transparent videotaped police interrogations of suspects in capitol cases after a number of death row inmates were found innocent.
11. Measures against racial profiling.
12. Campaign finance reform.
13. Restrictions on lobbyists activities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_career_of_Barack_Obama
In US Senate:
1. Senate Committee (SC) on Foreign Relations.
2. SC on Health.
3. SC on Health.
4. SC on Labor and Pensions.
5. SC on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.
6. SC on Veterans' Affairs.
7. Member of Congressional Black Caucus.
8. Chairman of the Subcommitte on European Affairs.
9. Border security and Immigration reform. Cosponsor "Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act introduced by JM.
10. Added 3 amendments to the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act.
11. Supported Secure Fence Act for security improvements along US-Mexico border.
12. Cosponsored Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006.
13. Introduced expansions to Cooperative Threat Reduction Program to secure and dismantle weapons of mass destruction and their associated infrastructure in former Soviet Union states.
14. Sponsor of Democratic Republic of Congo Relief, Security and Democracy Promotion Act, signed by Bush, to restore basic services like clinics and schools, train a professional, integrated and accountable police force and military, and otherwise support the Congolese in protecting their human rights and rebuilding their nation.
15. As member of Foreign Relations Committee, he made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East and Africa. His 2005 trip to Russia, Ukraine and Azerbaijan focus on strategy planning for the control of world's supply of conventional weapons, biological weapons and WMDs and defense against potential terrorist attacks.
16. January 2006, met with US military in Kuwait and Iraq. Visited Jordan, Israel and Palestinian territories. Asserted preconditions that US will never recognize legitimacy of Hamas leadership until they renounce elimination of Israel.
17. August 2006, official trip to South Africa, Kenya, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Chad where he made televised appearance addressing ethnic rivalries and corruption in Kenya.
18. Worked on Honest Leadership and Open Government Act, signed into law, to eliminate gifts of travel on corporate jets by lobbyists to members of Congress and require disclosure of bundled campaign contributions.
19. Cosponsored bill to criminalize deceptive practices in federal elections to include fraudulent flyers and automated phone calls.
20. Cosponsored climate change bill to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by two-thirds by 2050.
21. Promoted liquefied coal production of gas and diesel.
22. Introduced Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007 to cap troop levels as prelude to phased troop withdrawal and removal of all combat brigades.
23. Cosponsored amendment to Defense Authorization Act safeguarding personality disorder military discharges.
24. Sponsored Iran Sanctions Enabling Act in support of divestment of state pensions funds from Iran's oil and gas industry.
25. Introduced legislation to reduce risks of nuclear terrorism., provisions of which were added as amendments to the State-Foreign Operations appropriations bill.
26. Sponsored a Senate amendment to the State Children's Health Insurance program providing one-year job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries, which passed both houses of Congress with bipartisan support but was ultimately vetoed by fearless George.
It is so ridiculous that this is still being discussed.
nm
We discussed the same issue...
he is just another man elected to be president who just happens to be half black. Big deal. Also, for the state of the economy, there is certainly a lot of money being spent for this charade. A low key celebration would be fine, not the 150 million dollar price tag we are footing some of the bill for. He will never live up to the hype he has generated. The bloom will be off the rose before long and we will have a front row seat for the further decline of our economy, not to mention the terrorists who are anxiously awaiting an Obama administration.
Already been discussed on both boards. Catch up. nm
x
No - martial law discussed 9/18/09 - under Bush...
Sept.18: Congressional Leaders told US Economy Had Been Hours Away from Collapse
February 10, 2009, 4:32AM
A stunning video has surfaced of Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D-PA) describing Thursday September 18 when Bernanke and Paulson starkly informed Congressional leaders how close the economy had come to collapsing that day.
After $550 billion had been electronically drawn out of money market accounts and $105 billion had been poured back into the system with no effect, the Federal Reserve and the Treasury made the decision to shut down the money market accounts and announce a guarantee of $250,000 per account. Rep. Kanjorski:
If they had not done that their estimation was that by two o'clock that afternoon, $5.5 trillion would have been drawn out of the money market system of the United States, would have collapsed the entire economy of the United States, and within 24 hours the world economy would have collapsed.
It would have been the end of our economic system and our political system as we know it. [via Magnifico at Daily Kos]
Again via Magnifico, The Motley Fool adds some background as well as a possible connection to martial law in The One Jaw Dropping Video that Every Fool Must See. Both Sen. Inhofe, R-Okla., and Rep. Brad Sherman, D-Calif claim that Paulson brought up the possibility of a declaration of martial law.
The same article also revealed that a November 2008 Army War College Report discusses the possible use of the US military in the event of a domestic economic collapse.
Widespread civil violence inside the United States would force the defense establishment to reorient priorities in extremis to defend basic domestic order and human security. Deliberate employment of weapons of mass destruction or other catastrophic capabilities, unforeseen economic collapse... are all paths to disruptive domestic shock. [p.32] Support for Kanjorski's claims can be found in archives from that time period:
Congressional Leaders Stunned by Warnings, NY Times, Sept. 19, 2008.
...as the Fed chairman, Ben S. Bernanke, laid out the potentially devastating ramifications of the financial crisis before congressional leaders on Thursday night, there was a stunned silence at first. Mr. Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. had made an urgent and unusual evening visit to Capitol Hill...
Rushing to save money-market funds, CNN Money, Sept. 19, 2008
By Friday, federal officials worried that the strain on money-market funds had become too great and threatened the world's financial system.
As an aside, if all of this happened on Thursday, Sept. 18, why in the world did McCain wait until the last minute on the 24th to cancel his interview with David Letterman?
No - martial law discussed 9/18/08 - under Bush...
Sept.18: Congressional Leaders told US Economy Had Been Hours Away from Collapse
February 10, 2009, 4:32AM
A stunning video has surfaced of Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D-PA) describing Thursday September 18 when Bernanke and Paulson starkly informed Congressional leaders how close the economy had come to collapsing that day.
After $550 billion had been electronically drawn out of money market accounts and $105 billion had been poured back into the system with no effect, the Federal Reserve and the Treasury made the decision to shut down the money market accounts and announce a guarantee of $250,000 per account. Rep. Kanjorski:
If they had not done that their estimation was that by two o'clock that afternoon, $5.5 trillion would have been drawn out of the money market system of the United States, would have collapsed the entire economy of the United States, and within 24 hours the world economy would have collapsed.
It would have been the end of our economic system and our political system as we know it. [via Magnifico at Daily Kos]
Again via Magnifico, The Motley Fool adds some background as well as a possible connection to martial law in The One Jaw Dropping Video that Every Fool Must See. Both Sen. Inhofe, R-Okla., and Rep. Brad Sherman, D-Calif claim that Paulson brought up the possibility of a declaration of martial law.
The same article also revealed that a November 2008 Army War College Report discusses the possible use of the US military in the event of a domestic economic collapse.
Widespread civil violence inside the United States would force the defense establishment to reorient priorities in extremis to defend basic domestic order and human security. Deliberate employment of weapons of mass destruction or other catastrophic capabilities, unforeseen economic collapse... are all paths to disruptive domestic shock. [p.32] Support for Kanjorski's claims can be found in archives from that time period:
Congressional Leaders Stunned by Warnings, NY Times, Sept. 19, 2008.
...as the Fed chairman, Ben S. Bernanke, laid out the potentially devastating ramifications of the financial crisis before congressional leaders on Thursday night, there was a stunned silence at first. Mr. Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. had made an urgent and unusual evening visit to Capitol Hill...
Rushing to save money-market funds, CNN Money, Sept. 19, 2008
By Friday, federal officials worried that the strain on money-market funds had become too great and threatened the world's financial system.
As an aside, if all of this happened on Thursday, Sept. 18, why in the world did McCain wait until the last minute on the 24th to cancel his interview with David Letterman?
Yes, but it was not going to be discussed and your pictures posted on the internet...
for the entire country to see and discuss. Her privacy, which she is entitled to as a 16-year-old, has been invaded in a very nasty way. Sorry, that is the way I feel about it. I think it was terribly wrong for dailykrap to post it and terribly wrong for someone to spread it even further here. But that is just me.
as part of a phased withdrawal, discussed with and
There is a specified end sight as posted on O's website for those who are interested in fact over fiction. http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/#phased-withdrawal
Excuse me. Clearly, the women, children, babies and elders in that video posed no immediate threat to US troops there. No need for pudit expert analysis on that one.
Obama actually does differ on McCain in his Afghanistan plan, especially when it comes to more precise targeting (like OBL, to name one instance) and measures that would protect and spare civilian populations from blanket bombing of entire villages to "flush out" a half dozen "known" Taliban.
Diplomacy has not been tried with Taliban or any other theocratic leadership in view of the "we don't negotiate with terrorist" W dogma...that is, of course, until recently when he decided to flip to the O side of diplomatic policy and explore the idea of establishing an American "Interests" Section in Tehran.
You cannot possibly pretend to know what sort of progress can be made under leadership guided by a president who has the kind of insight O has into Islamic cultures until those initiatives are explored. What is apparent from that video is that ANY and ALL efforts should be undertaken to succeed in disarming terrorist arsenals AND appeal and that measures should be undertaken to prevent the slaughter of women, children, babies and old men.
O has very clearly articulated his approach and policies on diplomacy on his website, which have been available since the day he launched his campaign. Show me the McCain plan for diplomacy. Don't just claim he "knows what he is doing" because he knows his way around a battlefield. Show me the plan. I will not address the rest of the post because it reflects all that tired out politics of fear warmongering rhetoric that 80% of the nation has clearly indicated it no longer buys into.
yeah, when religion is discussed, it is the left
nm
This was all discussed ad nauseum in this morning's thread.
he said it before the election? I am not going to spend my time repeating verbatim the information that is sitting immediately under this thread. No one, including the MILLIONS of your fellow citizens who support the closing of Gitmo, thought it was going to be easy, but it IS going to be done, not by finding another way, but by doing it the way Obama has already put into action.
BTW, sodiers have been speaking up against the govt for quite some time now...in fact, for years before Obama ever took office. Ever heard of the Winter Soldiers?
Enter the elephant in the room not beind discussed
Under the Obama administration, reform in trade agreements, incentives to keep jobs stateside and targets plans to make it easier to unionize will be changing that picture. Pubs have lost this grip, no matter how loud they protest, how many GOP alert memos they send or how hard they pretend otherwise. Look for the unions to make a long overdue comeback. Then we shall see just how outdated they are.
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