At least he was brave enough to serve his country..
Posted By: sm on 2008-09-10
In Reply to: OK. so education doesn't count and - he only lost 3 planes. Got it. szq
not like some politicians who dodge the draft.
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There are other ways to serve one's country
Some are big, and some are small. Just having a job, working hard and staying off welfare is one way. Being a legal immigrant and not an illegal one is another. Donating time and money to charities, philanthropic organizations (even the SPCA) are all little things that serve the greater good. Not committing crimes, voting in elections, working with the PTA, the local soccer team, or participating in 'cleanup day' in your town... those all count, too. I have the greatest respect and empathy for a man who served in the armed forces and suffered at the hands of the enemy. But that doesn't necessarily qualify him to lead the country in these particular times. In another time, perhaps. But not now. He's too old, his time is past, and his ideas (basically the same as Bush's, just painted over to look different) are outdated. They don't address the everyday problems this country and its people face today. His way has been tried, and it's not working very well. (Unless, of course, you breathe the rarified air of the wealthiest communities in the country.) Just about EVERYbody in the country needs a break, small & medium-sized businesses included, and there are ways to do that so that everyone benefits, and yet everyone pulls their fair share of the load.
If the everyday citizen of the country is doing better financially, and if big business is paying its share and not jumping through countless loopholes each tax season, then there's more money to support the country's infrastructure. We have potholed roads, rotting bridges, and our hospital emergency rooms are so overloaded with people with no health insurance, either there for their everyday care, or for the rash of gunshot casualties we have, that many of them have closed their doors.
So yes, it's time for a younger President and a fresh outlook, because what's gone on in the last decade or two has grown very, very stale.
Bush lied and our brave patriotic soldiers died..PERIOD
Of course Bush lied about WMD and the threat of Iraq..He needed a reason to invade Iraq..If you would do some research you would find many papers that document meetings between Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle and others who devised a way to take over the Middle East in the 1990's..all they needed was a way to present it to the American people, as we would not allow our children to die for no reason. With 9/11, they got the reason and tried to tie up 9/11 with Iraq..I, frankly, think they also had a hand in 9/11..For any who poo poo this..I ask you to do some surfing on the Northwoods Operation..same kind of thing, only in the 1960's..Let a few CIA Hispanic/Cuban operatives invade a few curise ships on Floridas coast, kill a few Americans and we would definitely agree to invading Cuba and killing Casto..Our govt did not agree to it, however, 9/11 seems to me like an updated plan..there are many who also wonder was this an inside job..
I agree...Imagine the brave soul who would give an oppositional opinion...sm
It would be career suicide IMHO.
Who will serve best? sm
Anybody see any hypocrisy here?
by Sen. Howard W. Carroll
Democrats:
Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts.
Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam.
Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.
Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Sol dier's Medal.
Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
Chuck Robb: Vietnam
Howell Heflin: Silver Star
George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but received #311.
Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg.
Republicans
These are the guys sending people to war
Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
Tom Delay: did not serve.
Roy Blunt: did not serve.
Bill Frist: did not serve.
Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
Rick Santorum: did not serve.
Trent Lott: did not serve.
John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
Jeb Bush: did not serve.
Karl Rove: did not serve.
Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. Bad knee. The man who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.
Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
Vin Weber: did not serve.
Douglas Feith: did not serve.
Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
Richard Shelby: did not serve.
Jon Kyl: did not serve.
Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
Christopher Cox: did not serve.
Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.
George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.
Phil Gramm: did not serve.
John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
John M. McHugh: did not serve.
JC Watts: did not serve.
Jack Kemp: did not serve. Knee problem, although continued in NFL for 8 years.
Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
George Pataki: did not serve.
Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
John Engler: did not serve.
Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.
Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making movies.
Pundits & Preachers
1 Sean Hannity: did not serve.
Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')
Michael Savage: did not serve.
George Will: did not serve.
Chris Matthews: did not serve.
Paul Gigot: did not serve.
Bill Bennett: did not serve.
Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
Bill Kristol: did not serve.
Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
Ralph Reed: did not serve.
Michael Medved: did not serve.
Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at things that don't shoot back.)
John Wayne: did not serve.
Please keep this information circulating
Sen. Howard W. Carroll
Memory does not serve you correctly.
began long before the dems to control of Congress. Do some research before you spout your partisan blather. That is exactly what is wrong with this country and this board. You are too busy placing blame, whether deserved or not, to realize that you do not know the truth. You believe spin, not facts.
Look up Glass-Steagall, Gram-Leach-Blilley, toxic mortagages, and packaged derivatives if you really want to know how this began. If not, well continue to blather.
Don't bother to respond. I am not bothering to come back here. I thought this board would be different because it is MTs who use their brains for a living, but I guess MTs can be trolls too, as proven by a majority of the posts here. Luckily, I did find a board where, even though they disagree, they do so with logic, intelligence, and reason.
Good luck to you all. You are going to need it.
MOST people who serve in the military are
..
It will serve her well when she faces the pit bull on the other side...
can't wait.
The victim in a breakin is more likely to serve time than the theif
if they are shot in self defense in Alabama. Criminals have so many rights that if you shoot them in the back in your house you could be liable. If you shoot them and they fall out of your door, you could be liable. It's a joke.
As far as the child molesters, in a day and time of Jessica Lunsford and the Groene masacre, I don't see how a judge could let a child rapist walk with 60 days of jail time. He's dead wrong and the governer of Vermont needs to be the one to take the first stand to push for tougher laws so that judges can not skate on sentencing. It should be a mandatory 25 years for raping a child 12 and under, just like in Florida.
You and she should apply to serve on Michelle Bachmann's McCarthyesque
so you can investigate dems in the Congress and Senate for unpatriotic subversion and help her define precisely what means to be and not to be an American and come up with some sort of homogenous morality that we can all follow. You two could be in charge of decency and common sense department.
No. I love the country side in Alabama...I'm a country girl...nm
Yes killing this country - have you been out of the country the last 3 months or so
Don't you have a clue as to what is happening in America? Where have you been? Don't you listen to what is happening or are you still drinking the kool-aid. That time is over. Put the aid down and wake up. The country is being destroyed. These have been the worst 4 months in the history of bad presidents. Foreclosures are on the rise, unemployment is on the rise, 3+ trillion more in deficit and on the rise, companies shutting down, Clinton for SoS. Napolitano - one of the biggest tragedies to happen to America. The list goes on and on and on and on.
Dubya is not in office anymore. You think dubya "pulled the trigger", well the O keeps reloading it and continues to pull the trigger.
this country
Please remember this country and its founding Christian principles were legislated by slave-owners, a practice that was condoned for another 100 years in this country, along with the near-annihilation of this country's indigenous peoples.
The past may not be as rosy as you might paint it to be.
Well, I don't think this country had anything to do with it....
and I don't think Musharraf himself had anything to do with it. That is not to say that radicals within the intelligence services of Pakistan did not have a hand in it. The way it was done, they probably did. With the goal in mind of stopping the elections and causing destabilization...and perhaps a chance to get their hands on nukes, that we all know Pakistan has. Nukes ready to use.
This is a very scary event, folks. Not just for Pakistan...for the world.
Just as an aside....if you really look at what is going on in this country....
Ron Paul is more of a threat than you think. Evangelical Christians want someone pro-life and they are not going to get it with Guiliani...and whether you believe it or not, there are a LOT of them out there. And a lot of young people are looking at Paul, and that is young people on BOTH sides of the political spectrum. And in most all issues, Ron Paul is a strict conservative. And a lot of people out there are VERY sick of tax and spend...even a lot of Democrats...hence the Congress approval rating LESS than Bush's. There is a ground swell going on out there that could very well take over and tsunami the Dem candidate...and if the candidate is Hillary I would be willing to BET it will happen. Your worst nightmare realized. A true conservative in the White House and a Congress to help him turn things around. The purse strings are sure to really tighten (which is what I meant by gravy train about to end...by that I meant the endless tax and spend tax and spend).
Almost makes one giddy thinking about it.
I myself have a couple of real problems with Ron Paul...however...I could get behind him easier than I could Guiliani and so could a LOT of conservatives out there. So....I wouldn't be trashing Ron Paul and hawking that split the vote thing too loud...it could come back to bite you.
Have a good day!
country first
Theme of RNC. Sarah Palin was member of a group who advocated Alaska seceding from United States. Who first? Wno on second?
How are you get along with a country...
run by a man who calls for the annihilation of another country? As Ahmadinejad has said ad nauseam. Sure Mahmoud, let's sit down and talk about obliterating Israel. And that pesky little Death To America slogan...we need to talk about that. Have some tea.
Probably do everything they can to keep this country
from going to h*ll in a hand basket!!!!!
but it's okay with me if the country
x
If we had done to their country
We would have been in jail. Can you imagine going to a foreign country, standing on a corner until you got a job, sending your kids to school even though they did not speak the language and expecting to be accommodated, buying a house, car, getting a foreign credit card, not paying taxes, sending the money out of the country, and then trying to say you had rights to citizenship? It really boggles my mind when I think about it. And in my neighborhood we just loved and accepted everyone who came and were gracious and generous. I even took Spanish classes so I could speak to my neighbors. Then they left. They lost their jobs and they lost their homes and they left. The whole neighborhood is devastated, the school closed down and the houses are all empty. The really funny thing is to even get a job for awhile in my area, you had to be able to speak Spanish! What can you say, but that is absolutely insane!
What are you saying here? It's their country
Heads down? What does that mean? This transition is inevitable and I do not see anything wrong with the Iraqis expecting troops to live by the rule of law...their law. Iraqi is a sovereign nation, not an occupied territory (illegal by international standards).
I think everyone in THIS country should take off their
Just saw the video. Cracked me up.
You mean OUR country, don't you?
You may not be ashamed of America, but your love-it-or-leave-it attitude brings shame down on you. Country of diversity. Deal with it.
Please name one country---
Please give me the name of one nation in the history of humankind that grew great on the basis of 'gee, you like me, you reall, really like me.'
I don't think it's a good thing at all to have a pu$$isifed president apologizing for America. He's a weakling, and our country is not safe.
Do you remember the hostages in Iran? Do you remamber how long they were locked up by those monsters?
And the instant we elected a strong leader (Reagan) we got them home. Now we're getting the reverse effect. We've just become the world's byotch.
What's Obama going to do when he's faced with the next attack? Besides blaming Bush once again, I mean.
Country First??
So in the midst of an economic crisis that McCain never understood ("the economy is not my strong point"), he figures now is a good time to exploit the recession and collect email addresses and raise campaign money. That's what his Country First PAC is about.
He also laments "...partisanship driving our attempts to turn the economy around..." How can he say this with a straight face? Which party is engaging in partisanship with regards to the stimulus bill? Hint: it ain't Democrats.
And what's McCain's alternative? Payroll tax cuts? That's gonna turn our economy around? Please. The guy offers nothing else except the attitude that if the Democrats want it, it has to be bad. This is from a guy who lost the election in a landslide and was totally out of touch with the vast majority of the American people.
At least if you're gonna sign his petition, do try to find out what's actually in the bill.
our country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olT35FXhU2c
our country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAzbMqwr-J8&feature=related
our country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioKhEEypth0
our country
Anti-patriotism is the ideology that opposes patriotism; it usually refers to those with cosmopolitan views and is usually of an anti-nationalist nature as well. Normally, anti-patriotism stems from the belief that patriotism is wrong since it forces people born in a country, whether they like it or not, regardless of their individuality, to love the country or sacrifice themselves for it
our country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWeZ5SKXvj8&feature=related
Keep it up. This is why our country is going
nm
Yes we can...fuc& the country over and have everyone behind us!
**
Which is exactly why our country is the way it is
The whole -if it feels good, do it- mentality has put our society right down the crapper and opened the door for gay marriages and who knows what else can be far behind.
Yes, I am. I have never seen our country
in such turmoil. If they keep it up, we won't be a super power country much longer, only a weak nation like the poorer middle east countries and indonesia with no power or say on what happens to us.
WAKE UP AMERICA!
Thank God someone in this country still
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=572106
Everything is not fine in our country
... but I will put my flag up on the 4th of July.
I find it so sad that our country is so very divided and the ugliness and meaness has come out of everyone's mouths.
It seems that some of it is the religious versus the nonreligious, the gay and the hetero, our way or no way..
no matter who is president, we are all equal and should all be treated wiht respect.
Peace.
We have had several posters here from out of this country.
They were dispatched post haste by the people on this board because they did not espouse their views.
Country's problems...
We will have to agree to disagree on some things. But is nice to know that we also agree on some things. One more step toward the unity that this country SO desperately needs. We need that feeling we all had the morning of 9-11...not the horror, but the unity standing shoulder to shoulder that no matter what, we were Americans and we would stand together. We need that back, and we should not need a national disaster to get it back. But I digress. I don't think we can blame this country's problems on Bush. Most of them are long-standing, where there when he took office and will be there when he leaves. That is because Congress never goes to Washington and does the work of the people. They are the body with the power to change things. They just don't have the guts to do it. And, frankly, the base of the Democratic party has gone so far left I don't even recognize it anymore. But again I digress.
As to people formerly in the petroleum industry....Bush is from Texas. You can't throw a rock in Texas without hitting someone in the petroleum industry. Same for my home state, Oklahoma. I don't think being in the petroleum industry qualifies you as causing the nation's problems.
I don't know how you can profess, with all due respect, to know someone's heart. One of the things I believe about Bush is that he DOES care about the American people, and he demonstrates that by trying to stop things he thinks will be detrimental to them. Kinda like a parent and a child...you can't give them EVERYthing they want, because it would not be good for them. I do not think it is "I do what I want" at all. He just does not cave to every political wind that blows....he doesn't pander...and that makes him stand out from all the panderers in Washington. Taking a firm stand against the political wind is NEVER a popular stand to take. I for one am glad he has the courage to do so. That being said, I don't agree with every decision he has ever made, and I doubt I will ever agree with every decision any President makes. However, he was one of the few I saw break down and cry over 9-11. And he is also the man who held this country together after that horrible disaster. We looked to him to be strong and decisive, and he was. I will always admire him for that. Always. Again, doesn't mean I agree with everything he has said or done. But I am still able to see the good things he did and is still trying to do. I remember the picture of he and the daughter of that woman killed on 9-11, and the tears in his eyes...and I have seen how much he has aged since 9-11. You will never convince me that that man does not care about the American people. I never saw Clinton cry. I never saw not one congressman or woman cry. I have never seen a President engage the common American the way Bush has...I had the distinct pleasure to be at a speech he gave and much to the extreme displeasure of his Secret Service people, he goes right up very close to crowds where it could be very dangerous for him...and engages the people. He did it in Louisianna and Mississippi after Katrina. If you talk to the people he sat on the porches with, they will tell you that he has a heart. He also put a sizeable chunk of his own money into Katrina relief. He didn't have to do that. But he did. Nope, you will never convince me that George Bush does not care about his fellow Americans. Sometimes caring carries the responsibility of making the hard decisions, even if they are unpopular ones. And I have to admire him for that too. None before him have semeed willing to do that...if it meant danger to their political future, they will sway with every wind that blows. It is THAT kind of person whose care for fellow Americans concerns me.
God bless!
You seriously, seriously need to move out of the country sm
with that way of thinking because I EARN my money, GREW UP ON WELFARE and absolutely refuse to be poor! I work my DAM* A** off every single day and those so called people you keep saying "need our help" with the use of my tax money can get a job just like I can.
I was also diagnosed with dyslexia while in grade school and that didn't stop me from living the American Dream.
Yes, I am a conservative because I don't want my hard-earned money to pay for those who can help themselves. And guess what??I don't even listen to Rush or Glen Beck, OR watch Oprah! I don't like any of those people! I like my freedom to earn my own money, buy my OWN health insurance and don't want Hillary, Obama, or even another Republican telling me that MY money should go to pay for YOUR NATIONAL HEALTHCARE PLAN!
I want my govt to protect me and my family, not pay for the woman down the street with no job on welfare or even pay for her kids health insurance. I have 3 kids myself. How come I can do it with my diagnosis and she can't??
I have an even grander idea. Why don't you, and all of your liberal friends who want to pay for national healthcare of GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS cut Uncle Sam a check every 2 weeks to pay for these programs and let me use my money to do with what I please......
I think the entire country knows how old he is...
I think they use the picture of him in his uniform to underscore his military service...which I don't think hurts his cause but helps it, in this world we live in now.
As to his mind...that is kind of a cheap shot, don't you think? I haven't seen any evidence of an unsound mind. Obama is not "old" but take him away from a teleprompter or a planned statement and he stumbles and stutters with the best of them...just trying to be fair here.
You must live in another country! Sorry, but the
I was better off, made more money, paid lower taxes, and had more job security during the Clinton Administration than now. Same with all my MT friends & co-workers.
Apparently, so does more than 1/2 the country.
nm
Not when the rest of the country = 61%
mm
Our country is definitely divided.
He11....just look at this board. LOL!
I think it took a lot of guts for her to come out and say she was supporting McCain. I saw part of her interview this morning and she gave a great interview. She was very well spoken and said a lot of good things.
At least he knows how many states are in the country..
he is running to be President of. Hee hee.
This country is in such trouble.
I will not vote for someone who wants to create more government assisted programs. We are in deep crap now because of government spending. That will only make our economy worse. All of our money will be put into government programs, the spending will go up instead of down, and all the money we dish out in taxes to pay for all of this crap will most definitely not go towards our deficit. It will only get bigger than it is now and it is HUGE right now. There is no way that Obama can only go after rich people and tax them more. It still wouldn't be enough to pay for all these "plans" he has. God help us!
NOBAMA!!!
Actually, the founders of this country
were very radical. Just the very fact they went against Great Britain was radical. Don't you think dressing up as Indians and then throwing tea into the Boston Harbor was not radical? Yep, this country was founded by radicalism. Sorry to burst your bubble about radicalism. Radical, radical, radical.
At least he knows how many states are in the country.....
he says he can lead. At least his #2 has not said publically that he is not fit for the job. At least his #2 is not badmouthing his campaign ads. At least he is not buds with domestic self-confessed communist terrorists. At least he did not study the Alinsky method of Marxist socialist organizing. At least he puts his country first, not his party. Sorry...no way,no how, nobama.
if he was putting country first, he would have
pick a more qualified VP candidate. That pick was to help him with the base. In the whole country, he believed she was the MOST qualified? Lieberman was his personal choice. But Lieberman certainly would not have gotten him the Christian vote.
COUNTRY FIRST. Debate later.
.
Country first or Couric first?
After announcing he was suspending his campaign, McCain rushed back to Washington. Oh no, he rushed over to CBS to be interviewed. Here is the transcript
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/24/eveningnews/main4476614.shtml
I think the country can survive
if this debate is postponed as elections are in November. However, our economic crisis is happening RIGHT NOW and if something isn't done soon.....God help us all.
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