Credit-Frenzied society
Posted By: fitz on 2008-09-30
In Reply to: I'm not against the idea - sm
I was raised with good old Irish ethics. Work hard. Get ahead. Save up. Pay cash.
Now, granted, that's not the norm these days, but it was the norm for most of the life of this great country.
I dislike the consumer mentality these days. Everyone thinks they need a new car every two years. A new computer every six months. A new cell phone every time a new model comes out. A new home every time they turn around. And they're swimming in debt because of it.
As Will Rogers said -
"We hold the distinction of being the only nation in the history of the world ever to go to the poor house in an automobile."
Complete Discussion Below:  marks the location of current message within thread
The messages you are viewing
are archived/old.
To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select
the boards given in left menu
Other related messages found in our database
The 2008 credit has to be paid back (no interest), but not the 2009 credit.
nm
credit for safety = credit for 9/11
If Bush wants takes credit for keeping us "safe" from terrorist attacks since 9/11, then he has to take credit for the fact that we experienced the largest terrorist attack in US history under his presidency, as well. He can't have it both ways!
I gave credit where credit was due.
I think Obama did a good job not saying anything about the hostage situation with the captain and I commend him for giving the order to the Navy Seals to do what they did. But still.....I think the heroes and the biggest thank yous need to go to the ones who risked their necks to save the captain.....and that would be the Navy Seals.
All in all, I don't like a lot of things that Obama has done. I know Bush didn't do us any favors in his 8 years either, but Obama is now in office and I do not like the way our country is heading.
As for not giving Obama any slack....how many of you people gave Bush slack on anything even when he did something good....cuz believe it or not.....he did some good things too. It goes both ways.
Because society is already
screwed up enough as it is. Why do we need to change the definition of the human language simply to make certain sects of people happy? I want to change the definition of "taxes" to mean money that the government gives me. The government can keep their understanding and I will keep mine. Why? Why? Why? That is why we have an English language. So that we can all understand the same definitions of the same words. It makes life so much more easier for us all. Let's change all the words and definitions we don't like. That way we'll all be happy little campers. NOT.. We are also denying pedophiles the right to pursue happiness. They can't help it that their definition of "happiness" includes children. Everyone has a different "definition" of happiness. I'm sure most inmates would love to change the definition of "incarceration." Why don't we let them do that? Let's let conmen change the definition of "fraud" so they can be happy. I think homosexuals can still be happy sodomizing away in their own little corner of the world without having to be "married." It is merely a ruse to try to fool the idjits of the world into thinking that this behavior has to be "normal" since these people can "marry." Not even close.
It affects society as a whole, something probably
foreign to you. Do you not understand that the purpose of marriage is to produce the next generation? Just how do queers do that? Queer adoption only propagates more perversion. It's the role model instilled, you know? Monkey see, monkey do.
Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by a Holy God because of blatant homosexuality. Is that what you want to participate in? The wrath of God?
Let's work towards a FREE society.....
If we want to be FREE, then we need to get rid of policemen, firemen - ALL govt organizations. Privatize everything. Hide your money under your mattress and hope your house doesn't catch fire. What should we do militarily? I don't want to pay taxes to support military - we should be able to check off what we want to support. I'll have my own weapons as I have the right to bear arms. The rich can afford their own small armies and sprinkler systems. We can model our country after the drug lords in South America - they protect their turf and everybody else is on their own. Makes sense to me. Nursing homes and hospitals provide such minimalistic care (due to corporate greed and line item economics) - we can just take out the oldsters like we would put down Ole Yeller when they become a burden. He!!, since all the nonworking people are such a burden - the righteous ones can target practice on them to hone our skills for deer/squirrel/raccoon hunting. If ya wanna be FREE - then, let's REALLY be FREE.
No, I'd rather they OD and stop being a drain on society.
The world doesn't need 'em. Good riddance. Why don't you show 'em how it's done?
This is how you collapse a "free" society and it becomes
))
Sho you right. Not enough room in society for evil perverts.
Keep it coming, you make plenty sense. I enjoy your posts so much :):)
In a civilized society government does the less fortunate
sorry if you would prefer to live in an uncivilized country
HSUS is not the local humane society....
HIDDEN ENEMY :
HSUS – The Humane Society of the United States
Reptile breeders should feel pride in the progress they’ve helped achieve over the past several decades. We’ve unraveled many of the mysteries of inducing our animals to reproduce in captivity, and have made ‘Captive-Bred’ ( = 'CB' ) a common adjective in the hobby and industry. CB applied to herps is now understood to reflect ‘quality’ and ‘hardiness’ as pets. The percentage of CB herps available today dwarfs what we had just ten years ago, and is already making up a significant proportion of herps sold in pet shops.
Just as it seems obvious to us close to the herp industry that this natural evolution is proceeding well, new threats to our freedom to keep herps looms in the form of three ‘new’ enemies – the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS), The Fund For Animals, and People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA). The PETA are presently under scrutiny by the F.B.I. as a terrorism network because of their admission of funding extremists who have destroyed several facilities by fire. These closely-aligned organizations have remained largely hidden from our notice until recently. They have now set their sights on the reptile hobby and trade, their ultimate goals being to stop it completely.
The HSUS is a familiar group to most people. Its name seems to imply it all – humane treatment for animals. In the past, the group took in abandoned cats and dogs, prosecuted farms that allowed livestock to starve, and went after people who mistreated animals in some way. It created animal shelters, promoted spay-neuter programs, and developed modern euthanasia protocols. We all applauded the old HSUS efforts and supported it with our donations. We believed in what it stood for and helped make it a huge and powerful organization.
The HSUS was wildly successful in its efforts. The public was educated and abuse cases dwindled. Nowadays, it’s headline news when a rare case of neglect or other atrocity against animals is uncovered and prosecuted. Anyone who may have allowed care of an animal in their custody to become substandard is now frightfully aware of the consequences of such unacceptable behavior.
Why is this seemingly worthy organization a problem now?
Since 1954, the HSUS has grown into a huge bureaucratic organization with 200+ employees and well over $200,000,000 (by 2005) in their bank accounts. The money is stock-piled, and not one dollar of it is used to help the many ‘Humane Society’ shelters in cities across America . The HSUS long ago separated itself from all the smaller regional societies around the country, sharing no funding at all with them now. You are doing nothing to help your local community animal shelter by donating money to the Humane Society of the United States !
The HSUS got fat and prosperous capitalizing on our concern for the plight of homeless animals by bombarding us with tear-jerking fundraising campaigns. Its assets naturally attracted humaniac extremist groups like PETA that wished to tap into the war chest of funds. Radical animal rights proponents thoroughly infiltrated the HSUS and instilled their idealistic views as representing the whole organization’s doctrine. Then a subtle ‘coup’ occurred in 1973, warranted by the changing leadership because “the costs of running a local animal control operation [was] drawing off funds needed elsewhere”. (< That quote is from the HSUS’ own website!) They literally declared that supporting the small Humane Society shelters across the U.S. was 'stealing' the money needed to pursue their own new humaniac agendas.
The HSUS split away completely, dropping financial support of all the smaller state ‘Humane Society’ groups. But they did it quietly to leave everyone with the logical impression they were now just the national headquarters coordinating all ‘their local chapters’. They have purposely done nothing to erase that illusion of ‘umbrella organization’ to insure receiving all the same donation monies you thought were still supporting your home town animal shelters. The HSUS’s coffers swelled because they didn’t have to share the wealth anymore. It was a pretty sneaky and wildly successful move on their part!
The HSUS grew into a rich monster that basked in the glory of its past accomplishments of conquering cruelty to animals. But with that war largely won, the ‘new’ HSUS had a different agenda to set its sights on. Most importantly, it had to continue evoking sympathy donations from the public to keep the money flowing in. Creating a new, visible enemy became a necessity. They chose to refocus on non-traditional pets largely because the ranks of people in the bird, reptile and fish hobbies / industries were less unified, easier targets. This is why reptile-keeping has come under attack. We’re the new excuse – the new bad guys – to keep their paychecks coming in steadily.
In its distorted view (and the published rhetoric it distributes to back it), reptiles are totally unsuitable as pets. The HSUS preaches that nearly all reptiles suffer shortened life spans when kept in cages. It goes so far as to include all captive-bred herps in that appraisal, but not through sheer ignorance.
The HSUS’s clever strategy is to focus the public’s attention on isolated problems it can capture in pictures or on video to invoke sympathy, then imply that those disturbing images represent the norm in the entire industry. Recognizing the huge progress in herpetoculture over the past couple decades would not strengthen the gloomy ecological scenario it wants people to remember when filling out those donation checks. The HSUS purposely ignores captive breeding success and how it is rapidly replacing the need for some wild-caught herps. It's crucial the public stay duped into believing that stopping reptile-keeping is the only way to protect animals in nature. The HSUS needs this manufactured image to focus public condemnation and thus assure continued funding of their efforts.
Another HSUS approach is to scare us into believing that reptile-related Salmonella has reached plague proportions. Its well-paid advertising staff uses the craftiest psychology to twist facts and statistics and to publicize the ‘huge’ health threat herps pose. It knows such tactics weigh heavily on parents’ minds, hoping those frightened parents will prohibit their children from having herps at all.
Just how big a problem is Salmonella anyway? Bill and I do not know, or even know of, anyone who has ever contracted Salmonella from reptiles in their entire lives. We don’t even personally know of any Salmonella cases, period, and we know and meet lots of herp keepers! We don't doubt that it happens occasionally, but the HSUS is blowing public health fears all out of proportion to achieve their animal rights goals.
Unlike the old HSUS, the new PETAphile leaders have declared total war on all pet keepers, intending to end the practice of owning pets completely. They’ve stated that goal repeatedly, though they try to subtly disguise the true, hidden agenda so not to scare away contributions from cat and dog owners. On their website’s home page (http://www.hsus.org), they state “Promoting the protection of all animals”. What they mean is to protect ALL animals from any use by humans - as pets, as food, as leather, for medical research --- EVERYthing! Don’t let them fool you --- HSUS and PETA are essentially synonymous today.
The HSUS is presently trying to make virtually every act of pet keeping an offense by emphasizing every imperfection in our ability to draft new species into captivity / domestication. They subtly bombard schools with free 'animal information' that carries their propaganda, preaching their private agenda to children so their 'conservation message' is taken to heart early. When indoctrinated while young and impressionable, they hope those children will support the HSUS as future voters / donators. The HSUS is no longer composed of soldiers for a noble cause. They’re more like mercenaries who must create an enemy to assure their continued employment. The modern HSUS is an animal rights organization masquerading as an animal welfare organization. Supporting them is like supplying terrorists with money to hurt us.
The HSUS published this book {>>>} in 2001 - a persuasive political ploy disguised as a 'scientific report'. It was freely distributed to all U.S. governmental regulatory bodies to sway them to help their cause. This is how donation money sent to the HSUS is put to 'good' use. The last paragraph of the entire 'study' sums up their position:
"Finally, we recommend that [government] regulatory bodies put an end to the reptile trade: State and local authorities are encouraged to ban the commercial collection of reptiles to protect wild populations of reptiles and ban the sale of reptiles as pets to the general public in order to protect human health..." |
![](http://www.corn-utopia.com/Corn%20Utopia%20on%20the%20Web/Photo%20&%20Image%20Stockpile%20-%20CornUtopia/Humane%20Society%20book%20cover.jpg") |
For more info on the dark side of the HSUS and PETA, go to http://www.animalscam.com . Or read the book The Hijacking of the Humane Movement: Animal Extremism by Patti & Rod Strand.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Don’t abandon the local Humane Society animal shelters in your own community – they’re still doing their commendable work as always.
We have not suddenly become political activists. This exposé is just an honest response to the attack the HSUS initiated upon all herp keepers. We hope it may convince you to spread the word to friends and family. Avoid doing anything that benefits the Humane Society of the United States, the reptile hobby and industry's new sworn enemy.
- - - Kathy Love / CornUtopia & Bill Love / Blue Chameleon Ventures
For those that understand capitalism and a FREE society...
nm
I live very happily with myself by ignoring the gnats of society and all of their
self-righteous, superior, ignorant, totally irrelevant and insignificant DISDAIN.
Have a happy day. 
American Cancer Society focuses its ads on the uninsured
Has anyone seen the ads yet?
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/31/us/31cancer.html
Good Article. The American Cancer Society sm
is also advocating national health care as are a lot of medical organizations. They see the problems with the current system every day and know things cannot continue as they are.
Oh, that is just decay of modern society; found in any city.
Issue is the maintenance and you can bet your sweet probably big butt that if there were mansions (campaign donators) rather than shabby homes but generation after generation of welfare recipients in the way of a levy failure, the Corp of engineers would have reinforced the barriers long long ago.
Losing millions of low income, noncontributing citizens just isn't seen as a big problem, is it?
What can we expect should H5N1 take ahold and go into epidemic proportions may be a magnified version of NO only we will be the unlucky irrelevant citizens. Sure would solve a lot of problems by whipping out 1/4 of the world's population, the bottom 1/4 though, not the top; they are special.
The only problem I can see with what you are describing is 20 years of suboptimal Family Planning strategies. Thanks to republicans right wing religious zealots who have a magical view of life thanks to very effective brainwashing techniques. I see it worked on you.
So a FREE society cuts billions from the army corp of engineers....
so, literally, whole cities drown but we can spend trillions on a war based on lies and support corporations like Halliburton. Sure, why not. It has worked very, very well.
What did he say? Did he take credit for somebody else's
x
President Obama=bigger taxes, bigger government, and a profound change in society and culture
You give him a lot of credit
In your view one man single-handedly has brought the world down in 5-1/2 years. That's really giving Bush a lot of power. If Clinton and other Democratic presidents were soooo great then why didn't they single handedly make the world a utopian place when they were in office? Wow, Democratic presidents must have really sucked if you have the view that the Office of the President of the United States holds the power to either make the world Heaven or Hell. It seems the Dems could do neither. Man, they were lamer than I ever imagined if your view is correct.
You are giving her credit for something
she will NEVER do. She will never unite the party. She will only go on and on and on until it is impossible for a democrat to win this year, making McCain the president. All she wants is to be president, and if Obama gets in there, she will have to wait until 2016 when she'll be going on age 68. She doesn't care about the country or the democratic party. All she cares about is power, not about anything but HER and Bill. Sad, but the truth.
You sure do hand her credit for ...
having a lot of power. I like Palin, but I don't believe that she has the power to "almost single handedly divide the country." Perhaps she is a better leader than I thought...
the education credit -
Obama says the first $4000 of an education would be free and that you would have to work doing community service to pay for that. That being said, if you want a community college education, $4000 would pay that - if you want an advnaced degree, then of course it would not be free.
the Hope credit is available for the 1st 2 yrs for everyone
From IRS website: Who can claim the Hope Credit?
Generally, you can claim the Hope Credit if all three of the following requirements are met.
You pay qualified tuition and related expenses for the first 2 years of postsecondary education.
You pay the tuition and related expenses for an eligible student.
The eligible student is you, your spouse, or a dependent for whom you claim an exemption on your tax return.
It's worth a $1,500 tax credit, which according to my professor was so that anyone could afford two years at a community college, because it was essentially free since you would get it back as a tax refund.
well, i clearly said hope CREDIT
how many first and second year community college students are making over $47,000 per year anyway?
No. Show me where he has said the tax CREDIT will
Becuase if it is not a refundable credit (like he earned income credit is) then it can only apply toward tax LIABILITY...meaning you cannot get it unless you owe tax. This is not the same thing as a tax cut. A tax CREDIT has more value than a tax cut, because it is paid directly against owed tax liability.
With regard to the tax CUT, this is simply a TAX RATE DECREASE. He is not proposing to send every man, woman and child $500 or $1000. In fact, the language clearly states "up to" $500 for an individual worker and "up to" $1000 for working couples. This is a top cap limiting the benefit on can receive from the adjusted tax rate.
An economic stimulus is a SEPARATE ISSUE...as I have pointed out below and as SAM herself has referred to. It is a one-time issuance of monies that will be paid to 95% of workers. The stimulus would be structured very similar to the one we have already received under Bush.
Now here this. The ONLY WAY that a person who has no tax liability could receive any benefit would be if the tax CREDIT (not tax cut) is a refundable credit. THAT is the language I am looking for. Where does it say that the tax credit is a refundable credit?
Amanda....it says that the credit will...
eliminate federal taxes for 10 million low income families. Someone has to make up for that lost revenue. Or are you saying they are really not paying taxes anyway so when he says he is giving them a tax credit he is not, he is lying about it? So which part is lying and which part is true? They were paying taxes and now they are not going to be because of the credit, or they were never paying taxes anyway so it is a credit name only. Please advise.
it would if they owed less than the credit - nm
x
Sam, I don't see where he says only certain people will get that credit - nm
x
credit to the repub congress
Are you KIDDING me? They shut down the government in a tiffy fit. They fought him tooth and nail on everything. They spent countless time and money trying to impeach him. You need to get a library card an USE it, girlfriend.
Ok, I was wrong...gave you too much credit.
Go ahead and Bush-bash. Probably giving someone else a rest.
I'm sorry LVMT........ credit should have gone to you for posting! My bad! nm
x
credit crunch resolved
Now we will be able to borrow our own money from the banks for all the things we need and pay taxes, interest and inflation. I am firing all this jokers in November.
Get Ready to Pay off your credit cards
The government is looking into buying some banks instead of subprime mortgages. They are going to need some capital. All ready to pay up?
actually he says he will tax credit them for keeping jobs here... nm
x
okay - what do you think earned income credit is?
My sister pays no taxes - she has no taxes taken out of her check every week - she works a full time job, but she still every year gets back $5000-6000. Now why do you think that is any different than what you are talking about now? It is the same thing...
Still can't come up with that refundable credit language?
x
Please explain how the refundable tax credit...
that was outlined from his own documentation, that states the credit will eliminate federal taxes for 10 million low income workers...figures into that table. And then explain to me how taxing others higher than those low income folks to make up the loss of that revenue is not marxist re-distribution of wealth. Thank you.
Yeah and I give him credit
that's one time he told the truth.
There is also all that untraceable credit card...
money. I imagine a few campaign law restrictions were shattered with that. and yes, he took money from lobbyists in the form of bundlers. Mccain did too. They ALL do.
You are giving the Republicans WAY too much credit.. sm
Clinton was the one who started the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac fiasco by "helping" folks who couldn't afford a house to have one. Bush called for reforming FM/FM, but the Democrats fought him down on that one, with Barney Frank leading the charge saying that they were not in trouble.
Now with Obama leading the way to financial disaster for the US with his frantic spending, you just can't lay this all at the door of the Republicans.
Personally, I think both parties are flawed and there needs to be a thorough housecleaning, starting at the top, but I don't know if there is anyone left in this country, even T. Boone Pickens or H. Ross Perot, who could straighten this mess out.
I think you give the public too much credit!
They won't even know about it until someone shows up at the door to take their kids to the "campus." The American public is too apathetic to act in their own best interests AND too easily fooled by pretty words.
You are correct and I will give him credit for that, but SM
we need to remember that it takes money to train the SEALS and he is going to cut the military budget. Also we need to stop referring to these pirates and terrists as criminals. Remember what Bin Laden said back in the 90s. When Clinton pulled us out of Somalia because the soldiers were killed and drug in the street (Black Hawk Down), he knew the US was weak. You cant show weakness to your enemies.
I will give The Teleprompter credit. nm
xx
Long but interesting ....tax credit
Sorry the link would not post correctly. This is from the AP
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 14 mins ago
WASHINGTON – Millions of Americans enjoying their small windfall from President Barack Obama's "Making Work Pay" tax credit are in for an unpleasant surprise next spring.
The government is going to want some of that money back. The tax credit is supposed to provide up to $400 to individuals and $800 to married couples as part of the massive economic recovery package enacted in February. Most workers started receiving the credit through small increases in their paychecks in the past month. But new tax withholding tables issued by the IRS could cause millions of taxpayers to get hundreds of dollars more than they are entitled to under the credit, money that will have to be repaid at tax time. At-risk taxpayers include a broad swath of the public: married couples in which both spouses work; workers with more than one job; retirees who have federal income taxes withheld from their pension payments and Social Security recipients with jobs that provide taxable income. The Internal Revenue Service acknowledges problems with the withholding tables but has done little to warn average taxpayers.
"They need to get the Goodyear blimp out there on this," said Tom Ochsenschlager, vice president of taxation for the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants.
For many, the new tax tables will simply mean smaller-than-expected tax refunds next year, IRS spokesman Terry Lemons said. The average refund was nearly $2,700 this year.
But taxpayers who calculate their withholding so they get only small refunds could face an unwelcome tax bill next April, said Jackie Perlman, an analyst with the Tax Institute at H&R Block.
"They are going to get a surprise," she said.
Perlman's advice: check your federal withholding to make sure sufficient taxes are being taken out of your pay. If you are married and both spouses work, you might consider having taxes withheld at the higher rate for single filers. If you have multiple jobs, you might consider having extra taxes withheld by one of your employers. You can make that request with a Form W-4.
The IRS has a calculator on its Web site to help taxpayers figure withholding. So do many private tax preparers.
Obama has touted the tax credit as one of the big achievements of his first 100 days in office, boasting that 95 percent of working families will qualify in 2009 and 2010.
The credit pays workers 6.2 percent of their earned income, up to a maximum of $400 for individuals and $800 for married couples who file jointly. Individuals making more $95,000 and couples making more than $190,000 are ineligible.
The tax credit was designed to help boost the economy by getting more money to consumers in their regular paychecks. Employers were required to start using the new withholding tables by April 1.
The tables, however, don't take into account several common categories of taxpayers, experts said.
For example:
_A single worker with two jobs making $20,000 a year at each job will get a $400 boost in take-home pay at each of them, for a total of $800. That worker, however, is eligible for a maximum credit of $400, so the remaining $400 will have to be paid back at tax time — either through a smaller refund or a payment to the IRS.
The IRS recognized there could be a similar problem for married couples if both spouses work, so it adjusted the withholding tables. The fix, however, was imperfect.
• A married couple with a combined income of $50,000 is eligible for an $800 credit. However, if both spouses work and make more than $13,000, the new withholding tables give them each a $600 boost — for a total of $1,200.
There were 33 million married couples in 2008 in which both spouses worked. That's 55 percent of all married couples, according to the Census Bureau.
• A single college student with a part-time job making $10,000 would get a $400 boost in pay. However, if that student is claimed as a dependent on a parent's tax return, she doesn't qualify for the credit and would have to repay it when she files next year.
Some retirees face even bigger headaches.
The Social Security Administration is sending out $250 payments to more than 50 million retirees in May as part of the economic stimulus package. The payments will go to people who receive Social Security, Supplemental Security Income, railroad retirement benefits or veteran's disability benefits.
The payments are meant to provide a boost for people who don't qualify for the tax credit. However, they will go to retirees even if they have earned income and receive the credit. Those retirees will have the $250 payment deducted from their tax credit — but not until they file their tax returns next year, long after the money may have been spent.
Retirees who have federal income taxes withheld from pension benefits also are getting an income boost as a result of the new withholding tables. However, pension benefits are not earned income, so they don't qualify for the tax credit. That money will have to paid back next year when tax returns are filed.
More than 20 million retirees and survivors receive payments from defined benefit pension plans, according to the Employee Benefit Research Institute. However, it is unclear how many have federal taxes withheld from their payments.
The American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees union raised concerns about the effect of the tax credit on pension payments in a letter to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner in March.
Geithner responded that Treasury and IRS understood the concerns and were "exploring ways to mitigate that effect."
Rep. Dave Camp of Michigan, the top Republican on the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee, said Geithner has yet to respond to concerns raised by committee members.
"So far we've got the, 'If we don't address this maybe it will go away' approach," Camp said.
___
It seems "Barack" takes credit for a lot and blame for nothing.
Marx: Centralize credit in the banks.
private property. Right any bells?
How about that larger refundable tax credit of McCain's?
x
REQUIRED IN ORDER TO GET THE COLLEGE CREDIT! NM
x
It may be hard to credit Bush with no attacks when there is...sm
nothing tangible to show for it, right?
But then, that's the whole point.
No attacks on U.S. soil since 9/11.
There's the proof.
I'll be a believer and give President Bush the credit for this one.
Yes, earned income credit, we pay our taxes....
Whaddya you make? 7 cents a line? LOL. You call that paying taxes? HAHAHAHA!
|
