Hamas live in Gaza.
Posted By: sm on 2008-12-30
In Reply to: I heard tonight sm - Zville MT
That makes them civilians, too, the same way our elected officials are also citizens and live in their respective states. If living in their own houses in their own neighborhoods is "hiding," then that statement is accurate.
Complete Discussion Below:  marks the location of current message within thread
The messages you are viewing
are archived/old.
To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select
the boards given in left menu
Other related messages found in our database
This is a lie. They live in Gaza. They don't hide there.
They were democratically elected into power, defeating the Fatah party, which retains its majority in the West Bank, but Hamas has won elections there, too.
The majority of the people in Gaza live in the squalor of refugee camps under the iron fist of their hostile occupiers who imposed an apartheid police state and enforce blockades of basic supplies such as food, medicine and MONEY. This strangles their economy and starves their people. Israel was supposed to lift the blockade as part of the cease fire conditions. They have had since June to do this and by the time the cease fire expired on December 19th, they had not done so and had no intention of doing so. THAT is why the cease fire did not hold. Surprise, surprise. More lies and broken promises from Israel, only these particular lies are creating deadly and fatal conditions for the entire population in Gaza. Can you say genocide? It's a war of attrition at the hands of Israel and sanctioned by the United States.
They do not hide behind women and children. The population in Gaza supports the resistance to the blockade, since they and their children are the ones who are being slowly starved to death. That's why they elected Hamas. An occupied population which has been invaded repeatedly, blockaded, has the highest unemployment rate in the world (Gaza at 45%), has no medical supplies and is on the verge of starvation tend to arm themselves and band together against their common enemy. It's human nature to do so. This is not about anything more than simple survival for them.
ONLY the Gaza Strip? Do you have an idea a tiny the Gaza Strip is?
Obiously not. Look it up online! And it is encircled by Israel in the East and by the Mediterranean Sea in the West. The Palestinians want also the Westbank, that Israel conquered from Jordan in the 1967 war.
Any of you live in the midwest? Just in case you live down the road from me...
I live in Wisconsin and am often also in Minnesota.
No, I'm not a stalker or a weirdo (my opinion, anyway).
Yeah, tell me again how liberals want to live and let live....what a joke!!!! nm
why not just tell the truth? That only extends to liberals.*I have had it with Republicans...* a whole group of people tossed out like garbage. *I will not respond to your posts nor read them.*
As to Ann Coulter...the left has their share..Michael Moore, AL Franken...do you ever look at your own party?
That is the most INtolerant post I have seen here in a LONG time.
Liberals true colors always come out...regardless of how much they say they are the MOST tolerant, and want EVERYone to live and let live...everyone if you happen to be liberal.
We are all Americans...and America is about debate. Tell me, liberal Democrat, again how you care about ALL Americans. Talk about ringing hollow.
Gaza Strip
Israel renews Gaza attacks.
The Jewish state launched about 100 strikes on the Gaza Strip on Saturday. |
|
|
|
Yeah, and Isreal took its own out of Gaza, yet
nm
Israel felt pulling out of Gaza was okay. sm
Oh, okay, that explains all those wailing Jews being forcefully removed from their homes of 30 plus years. Glad you cleared that up. Your statement is ridiculous. But then, they all are. Gosh, your lying comment is getting really old. Does anyone else think so?
I can't believe there are those who believe the 8000 peole in the Gaza strip should
occupy one-third of the land, while the other 1 MILLION people live in the other two-third.
Granted, I'll concede that I have not followed it except that I know the land is sacred, but the settlers themselves should be able to see the unfairness in this.
I think it was a standup think for the Israeli president to do from where I'm sitting.
You might want to check out the thread about Gaza before gloating about that. nm
Ahem. The West Bank is not theirs. Neither is Gaza.
So just how does that justify illegal settlements and settler violence against Palestinians in the West Bank?
'trying to take Gaza from Israel is wrong?'
In what century are you living? It was already given to the Palestinians by the Israelis. The area is recognized internationally as part of the Palestinian territories.
What happened in 1948, when the Israelis took Palestine from the Palestinians?
The name "Palestine" comes, via Greek and Latin, from the Philistines; see History of Palestine.
The Palestinians were in Palestine, called the Philistines, BEFORE the Israelis came along from Egypt!
If I were you I would exchange the Bible for a history book and brush up on your history. Read also about the 1957 war!
Also: Give me 1 example, only ONE that what is written in the Bible is true!
'trying to take Gaza from Israel is wrong?'
In what century are you living? It was already given to the Palestinians by the Israelis. The area is recognized internationally as part of the Palestinian territories.
What happened in 1948, when the Israelis took Palestine from the Palestinians?
The name "Palestine" comes, via Greek and Latin, from the Philistines; see History of Palestine.
The Palestinians were in Palestine, called the Philistines, BEFORE the Israelis came along from Egypt!
If I were you I would exchange the Bible for a history book and brush up on your history. Read also about the 1957 war!
Also: Give me 1 example, only ONE that what is written in the Bible is true!
If Netanyahu continues to bomb Gaza,
then Obama has to do some action, words are not enough anymore regarding this conflict.
Most probably Obama, as he is a wise guy, he will curtail US' financial and weapon support to Israel.
Obama will not start the bombing and he will not torture.
Israel rams humanitarian aid boat destined for Gaza
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20081230/twl-israeli-patrol-boat-collides-with-ai-3cd7efd_2.html
Bloody butchers block 3 tons of medical supplies being transported to Gaza to help prevent severely injured Palestinians from becoming fatalities due to lack of medical supplies resulting from ongoing Israeli blockade of Israel. People who could be stabilized with provisions as basic as electrolytes, antibiotics, bandages, etc are being turned away from hospitals and left to die in the street. Dead bodies are being returned to the family to be taken home due to inability to prepare them for burial. Wonder how many Hamas were hiding out on that boat? Yesiree, our tax dollars are hard at work once again.
Condi lies through her teeth in her 1-minute Gaza statement.
"Hamas has held the people of Gaza hostage "ever since their illegal coup" against the forces of (Palestinian Authority) President Mahmoud Abbas." In the AP report, they attempted to scour this lie by stating that Rice pinned the blame for the violence on Hamas, the Islamist Resitance Movement that "seized power" in Gaza in June 2007 after "ousting" the US-backed Palestinian Authority of Mahmud Abbas. Neither statement even remotely resembles the truth.
Hamas won control of 28 municipalities in both the West Bank and Gaza in the municipal elections of 2005, including control in the West Bank's largest cities (Nablus, Jenin, Ramallah and East Jerusalem). They achieved a stunning victory in the legislative elections in 2006, which yielded a yielded a 78% voter turnout. Hamas won 76 out of 132 seats on the Legislative Council. Factoring in the 4 seats won by independents who support Hamas, they seized 80 seats, giving them control of 60.6% of the council. In other words, they did BETTER than the US democrats in 2008.
Hamas benefited in the election from the fractures in the secular, US-backed (kiss of death) Fatah party of Mahmoud Abbas. Fierce in-fighting between Hamas and Fatah factions erupted in the election aftermath. Israel and the US (along with Egypt) immediately tried to undermine Hamas and force them from power, even going so far as to arm and train Fatah for a war with Hamas! They hatched a plot that involved smuggling US arms for Fatah strongholds in Gaza through a suddenly porous Egyptian border with Israel's blessing.
As with countless other ill-advised US attempts to rearrange the political landscape in the Middle East, this stunt backfired all over the place. When this engineered conflict erupted later in the summer, Fatah and Hamas officers and leaders (including Abbas) were targeted by their respective militia's opponents. Things got really nasty and Abbas HIMSELF dissolved the Palestinian-Hamas unity government, declared a state of emergency, tried to dismiss the prime minister and declared himself ruler of Gaza by presidential decree. Can you say US-backed coup? Of course, this went over like a lead balloon with the newly elected Hamas leadership.
Ultimately, this led to the current division of government between Gaza (Hamas) and the West Bank (Palestinian National Authority), who the US and EU normalized relations with and began sending direct aid. Abbas relocated to the West Bank and is still the President of the Palestinian National Authority. In the meantime, he has found it increasingly more difficult to sustain the more moderate status quo support of US-brokered peace initiatives with Israel in view of the absence of such during Bush's second term. He has announced he will not run for office again at the end of his current term. In May 2008, he stated he would resign if Condi's impotent so-called peace talks did not produce results within 6 months. In July, he spoke not only of resigning, but also of dismantling the Palestinian Authority all together.
As a footnote, Gaza is held hostage by Israel occupation of Palestine and its 18-month blockade, which Condi failed to mention in her statement this morning, not by their democratically elected representatives.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/jun/16/israel.comment http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3412813,00.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/14/international/middleeast/14mideast.html?_r=2&ei=5094&en=d28cff5caa1702fa&hp=&ex=1139979600&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0525/p07s02-wome.html
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/14/MNGIPMV3N61.DTL
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article640747.ece
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/806603.html
Don't think they returned any from Hamas. nm
nm
And Hamas? Are they innocents? - sm
Heard one of the leaders of Hamas today state that they will never accept a peace agreement with Israel - that the "occupation" must stop. Occupation, occupation! Excuse me but didn't Israel win the war? And why not accept a peace agreement, better than doing what they are doing, what THEY are doing to their own people. How about all the buses, restaurants, etc. in Israel that have been blown up with innocent people and children in them? It is time for everyone perpetuating this hatred to give it up and try peace for a change. Hamas is a hate-filled bunch of terrorists and radicals.
Maybe your beloved Hamas SHOULD put God in it.
Then they might stand a chance.
As it is, they're on the way to defeat. (And good riddance to 'em.)
End of the year 2008 a total of 1.073 Palestinians were killed in Gaza and over 4,000 injured.
It is also a historical fact that the Palestinians were the FIRST to populate the Holy Land and that the Palestininas were driven from Palestine 1948, and again in the 1967 war Arab land went to Israel.
In the year 1993 the Palestinians concentrated in the 'Gaza Strip', this is a tiny, tiny land strip where 1.5 million Palestinians are living under horrible circumstances and in fear of Israeli attacks.
November 2008 Israel invaded Gaza and massacred Palestinians living there and the whole world condemned this act.
This is history!
Yeah, Hamas has already endorsed him...
and he had to give their money back.
How many Hamas do you supposed they killed
when they bombed the women's dormitory at the University? Explain to me what threat the five Ba'lousheh sisters, ages 17, 14, 8, 4 and 2 and residents of Jabalya refugee camp, posed to Israel? All five were buried today. It is not enough for Israel cripple and starve the refugees with its ongoing strangling blockade of food, supplies and medicine and turn Gaza and he West Bank into one huge armed prison camp. These blood thirsty barbarians will not rest until they have satisfied their appetites with their latest fix of Arab slaughter. After all, it's already been 2 long years since Lebanon....way too long for the more ravenous among them to endure.
Hamas was democratically elected by
the Palestinian National Authority and has won many local elections in Gaza, Qalqila and Nablus. The hold 72 of the 136 seats in the Palestinian Parliament, having unseated the former Fatah ruling party. Apparently, the Palestinian people do not agree with O.
He will have quite a dilemma on his hands reconciling this rhetoric with what democracy looks like in the Middle East, so let the games begin.
HAMAS is a terrorist group
nm
Yeah, and Hamas weapons also
they can sneak in through their tunnels from Iran, and I think we know the technololgy from Iran is a little more sophisticated than you are admitting. Not to mention the fact that they are embedding themselves into the civilian population in Gaza thereby holding them as hostages and using them for the rest of the world to say the very things you are saying. It sounds to me like you are so disgusted with the US, you may consider leaving and joining the Hamas yourself since they are so great in your eyes.
Yes, and Hamas once again broke the peace.
nm
Those "schools" are also where Hamas hides and
nm
There was a truce. Hamas broke it and sent
nm
Yeah, right. Hamas squelches any opposition, so you can't
really call their elections democracy in action.
Yeah, right. Hamas squelches any opposition, so you can't
really call their elections democracy in action.
Baloney. Israel is targeting Hamas, who are
nm
How many Hamas in UNRWA, media buildings?
Israel's national security is threatened by "symbols of power," ie reporters and aid workers? Just one more US-backed pack of war crimes based on lies.
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/articles/2009/01/03/hammond_top-5-lies-about-israels-assault-on-gaza.html
Refer to article for details.
Lie #1) Israel is only targeting legitimate military sites and is seeking to protect innocent lives. Israel never targets civilians.
Lie #2) Hamas violated the cease-fire. The Israeli bombardment is a response to Palestinian rocket fire and is designed to end such rocket attacks.
Lie #3) Hamas is using human shields, a war crime.
Lie #4) Arab nations have not condemned Israel’s actions because they understand Israel’s justification for its assault.
Lie #5) Israel is not responsible for civilian deaths because it warned the Palestinians of Gaza to flee areas that might be targeted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%932009_Israel%E2%80%93Gaza_conflict
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/civilian-casualties-human-rights-groups-accuse-israelis-of-war-crimes-1366727.html
Palestinian fatalities: 1055, 670 of which are civilians, more than 300 children.
Israel fatalities: 13, 3 civilians, 10 soldiers, 4 BY FRIENDLY FIRE.
Palestinian injuries: 4560, over 1500 children.
Israel wounded: 178, 120 soldiers and 58 civilians.
IDF forces: 176,500 who accumulated 2360 air strikes BEFORE the ground assault.
Hamas militia: 20,000 total
How many Hamas in UNRWA, media buildings?
Israel's national security is threatened by "symbols of power," ie reporters and aid workers? Just one more US-backed pack of war crimes based on lies.
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/articles/2009/01/03/hammond_top-5-lies-about-israels-assault-on-gaza.html
Refer to article for details.
Lie #1) Israel is only targeting legitimate military sites and is seeking to protect innocent lives. Israel never targets civilians.
Lie #2) Hamas violated the cease-fire. The Israeli bombardment is a response to Palestinian rocket fire and is designed to end such rocket attacks.
Lie #3) Hamas is using human shields, a war crime.
Lie #4) Arab nations have not condemned Israel’s actions because they understand Israel’s justification for its assault.
Lie #5) Israel is not responsible for civilian deaths because it warned the Palestinians of Gaza to flee areas that might be targeted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%932009_Israel%E2%80%93Gaza_conflict
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/civilian-casualties-human-rights-groups-accuse-israelis-of-war-crimes-1366727.html
Palestinian fatalities: 1055, 670 of which are civilians, more than 300 children.
Israel fatalities: 13, 3 civilians, 10 soldiers, 4 BY FRIENDLY FIRE.
Palestinian injuries: 4560, over 1500 children.
Israel wounded: 178, 120 soldiers and 58 civilians.
IDF forces: 176,500 who accumulated 2360 air strikes BEFORE the ground assault.
Hamas militia: 20,000 total
Well, they already made him give back Hamas' money.
nm
Good. Hope Israel can destroy HAMAS.
nm
So.....3000-4000 rockets lobbed by Hamas into Israel...sm
in the last year, what about that? Does that bother you in the slightest?
Or in your twisted view of the world, please explain why that is A-0kay in your book.
Are you suggesting Hamas has 1017-mile-long tunnels?
Do you hear yourself? You are regurgitating more propaganda from US media sources, which act as mouthpieces of the US, AIPAC, and Israel policies. Do you understand how one-sided US news coverage really is? The only smuggling of any significance going on is between Gaza and Egypt and, for the most part, the contraband is food, clothing, medicine, fuel and cash, which they have been cut off from for the past 18 months due to Israel's blockade. If there is weapon smuggling, the majority of it would be coming from the Muslim Brotherhood who is not exactly able to engage in such activities openly since they are repressed by the Egyptian government and are not even allowed to run for office as a legitimate political party, are subjected to mass arrests, etc.
The Brotherhood is a Sunni organization and does not even operate in Iran, whose relations with Egypt are pretty icy, to say the least. These factors make high-level, successful arms smuggling connected to Iran difficult at best and fairly unlikely. It should come as no surprise that Iran is entirely supportive of Palestine, but the way US depicts the relationship between Iran and other Islamic political parties is highly exaggerated and often inaccurate.
In any case, the weapons that have been able to be smuggled in quite OBVIOUSLY do not measure up to the caliber of weapons Israel has been able to amass with US financial backing and direct arms provisions. Take a long look at the list I put in the other post. Israel is able to conduct its wars FROM OUTER SPACE.
If Hamas had such weaponry, we would not have a 125:1 fatality ratio between the two sides, would we now? I hate to break this to you, but Iranians DO NOT imbed themselves in Gaza. You really need to educate yourself on the difference between an Arab and a Persian, when and how they support each other and where they draw their lines.
BTW, no place in any of my posts have you seen me say I think Hamas is "so great." In fact, I support secular social democratic parties in the Middle East, including Iran. I simply view the area's politics from a different standpoint than most Americans because I have had occasion to live there, to work with refugees, to marry into a Moslem family and to befriend man Iranians, Iraqis Jordanians, Syrians, Turks, Lebanese, Palestinians and even a couple of liberal Israelis over the last 40 years.
No. "Evil" is Saddam. "Evil" is Hamas.
nm
live and let live
I read your post. It is based on accusations, which is all anyone can really go on as Hitler is not here to pick his brain. It also states Hitler felt they were capitalists, which was a reason why he wanted to destroy them. I also know what my many NYC jewish friends talk about when we talk about WWII and concentration camps which we have talked a lot about over the years. As an aside, from someone who calls me hateful all the time, you do need to look within. To call Chomsky despicable filth for no reason other than you disagree with him and his ideology is really quite scarey and sad. This is America, where we can believe and worship anything we want and if a person does not like it, they can put it out of their mind and live their life and let Chomsky and every one else, who does not think like you, live theirs. Long live Chomsky and every other Communist, Socialist and Capitalist in America. Viva America!!
we DO want to live and let live
We just get a might testy when a board specifically set up for our group is invaded by people who just want to name call, endlessly recycle false propanganda, and obsess over foibles. Separate but equal, I say. You can go to the conservatve board and just rehash and regurgitate all 10 Fox talking points and you won't be bothered by me, rest assured.
I live on the GC.
I don't hate anyone! They ignored the warnings and blamed the government because they did not listen.
Again look at Andrew and Ivan people prepared and then WORKED to rebuild their lives and they did not blame FEMA.
I am not from PA, but I live in PA....
and the people I know were offended. And so they should be. Lots of folks in flyover America are offended. He made a blanket statement and it offended a lot of rural folks whose jobs are on their farms. There are a lot of people in PA whose jobs have not been outsourced. That is the trouble with blanket statements. There are a lot of small towns in PA and not all of us are bitter. We do not cling, we embrace our second amendment rights and our religous beliefs...through good times and bad. If we did not, then we might indeed BE bitter.
Obama does not know me. And I suspect he does not know a lot of rural America. Our vote counts too. Maybe he should not have painted such a broad stroke.
Maybe where you live......not here
I have known plumbing business owners my entire life and they ain't rich by a long shot. They do okay. They employ lots of people, which should be the main concern here.....employment. They perform a service you sure as shoot would want.
Same with electricians. Both professions are tough jobs and I have no problem with them doing well if they can. My brother worked for a plumbing company when he was younger and was called out in the freezing cold to crawl under homes to replace pipes, homes that might at any minute collapse they were so old. He found himself in so many dangerous situations replacing pipes. H@ll fire....they couldn't pay him enough for what he did.
Electricians crawling around in spaces I wouldn't want to go. In the middle of summer here in the south, one had to crawl around in a very small space above our home to run wires and you couldn't pay me enough to do that job. I thought they were going to pass out from the heat. I was more worried about them.
And the A/C - heating guys. Aren't you glad they're there when you need them. Do I want to see them taxed out of business? Who would?
I'm sure good 'ole Obama would want one of them showing up in the middle of the night if his heat went out and he wants warmth. Of course, he has the money to pay for that middle of the night housecall. We don't but that's not the company owners fault. We're slapping down the very people who keep this country rolling.
Obama is a joke! Snide hypocrit.
I and others do not want to live like the
people from the Holocaust had to. This is coming from other countries too.
Obama's own words - I will change the world. That will not be his job if he is elected. People from Germany see hitler in him. People in Brittain say he's a bad choice. People from all over say the Obama camp was how Hitler rose to power in Germany. Not my words theirs.
So go ahead and praise lord Obama. Others have enough sense to see him for what he is.
Most of us do not live
in your parallel universe on the fringes, including a good number of life-long REAL conservative economists found in my citations. It does not take more than a minute or 2 to come up with references and resources, that is if you do anything else with your time other than spend it reading the info on walls of the right-rag outhouses. It comes as no surprise you cannot find any info from the real world there.
But suit yourself. You don't have time to educate yourself or do any research before you open your potty mouth? Fine with me, but don't expect anybody with a triple-digit IQ to take you seriously.
Ain't bipartisan support a b*itch?
Don't know where you live, but in LA,
they cannot arrest someone who is a known illegal criminal who has already been deported, unless a new crime is committed, so police can spot dangerous gange members whom they have already arrested and deported in the past, but there is nothing they can do until another crime is committed. It is ridiculous.
Where do you live?
If you voted for Obama, you are one of the two types of voters. Now, you either live in an area where there is enough working people that you never really see the downside of where all your taxes really go, or you know plenty who mooch already and feel you must stick up for them for some reason, why is that? Afraid you won't be "loyal" or do you feel you're entitled?
I believe in working for a living.... unfortunately, our government has long since forgot what a sovereign country is all about and managed to create an entire welfare country in just a few short decades!
Do you live in CA?
x
I don't know where you live....
but people do not jack off in libraries in my neighborhood. Evidently, since you are implying this is LAW or a proposed bill that is imminent (which it is not), you have failed to notice that people are NOT flaunting their wedding tackle in your local library.
Because MOST of them live off YOU and ME!!
--
I don't know where you live....(sm)
but you should really try getting out of your little box. The issue with marriage isn't whether or not a man and woman can marry, but rather whether a gay or lesbian couple can marry. Remember Prop 8? That would be the law that just recently passed saying it was illegal for gays and lesbians to be married. They previously had this right -- It has now been taken away with Prop 8, funded by the religious community.
Good for you...Where you live that is...nm
|
