need to say, how to think and scold, scold, scold when they think we are out of line. Perhaps you should sign up for Michelle Bachmann's Committee on UnAmerican Activities so you can practice self-righteous indignation in a more official capacity.
Complete Discussion Below: marks the location of current message within thread
And I'm not even pro-Obama.
cold-hearted, aggressive, and
wouldn't give a hoot for your well-being any more than the wolves she's shooting just for the fun of it. She surely can't give the old cop out of hunting for food. she just wants to kill for the sake of killing.
Haha, these aggressive posts are too funny...
one thing to be assertive but these nasty comments, too much, and way too typical...outta here, good luck TTP
We all have experienced that...and we have all...
worked with managers who have no relevant experience in our field and we ALL know that is like.
Have not experienced it firsthand.....
but I don't see why pastors should be singled out and their free speech rights and threatened with losing their tax exempt status. It is discriminatory. There are other entities that are tax exempt, but they are not precluded from giving political opinions. Reverend Wright does it, we have seen him do it on video, and I don't see the IRS breathing down HIS neck. If it is okay for him, it is okay for other pastors? And he also preaches hate from the pulpit. Hate is okay, political opinion is not? So why should a pastor not be able to give a political opinion in a church? On the face of it, it seems discriminatory to me. They are American citizens just like the rest of us.
Just on the face of it, if you can lose your tax exempt status for stating a political opinion inside a church, then you should lose your tax exempt status if you give a political opinion in whatever facility enjoys that status. If you are going to allow it one place, you should allow it in other places. Just my opinion.
Wow! I experienced the same thing ages ago
She was a nutty right-winger. Just the fact she created ONLY a "Christianity" board and was biased and bigoted. I'm glad she's gone. I might start visiting the site again. She was very creepy.
Jewish family flees Delaware school district's aggressive Christianity
This is terrible. :-(
Jewish family flees Delaware school district's aggressive Christianity
by JewsOnFirst.org, June 28, 2006
Note: On July 11th, we posted two follow-up reports, which you can find here. And on August 23rd, we posted another update here.
Links to articles and documents cited in our report appear immediately below it
A large Delaware school district promoted Christianity so aggressively that a Jewish family felt it necessary to move to Wilmington, two hours away, because they feared retaliation for filing a lawsuit. The religion (if any) of a second family in the lawsuit is not known, because they're suing as Jane and John Doe; they also fear retaliation. Both families are asking relief from state-sponsored religion.
The behavior of the Indian River School District board suggests the families' fears are hardly groundless.
The district spreads over a considerable portion of southern Delaware. The families' complaint, filed in federal court in February 2005, alleges that the district had created an environment of religious exclusion and unconstitutional state-sponsored religion.
Among numerous specific examples in the complaint was what happened at plaintiff Samantha Dobrich's graduation in 2004 from the district's high school. She was the only Jewish student in her graduating class. The complaint relates that local pastor, Jerry Fike, in his invocation, followed requests for our heavenly Father's guidance for the graduates with:
I also pray for one specific student, that You be with her and guide her in the path that You have for her. And we ask all these things in Jesus' name.
In addition to the ruined graduation experience, the Dobrich-Doe lawsuit alleges that:
The district's custom and practice of school-sponsored prayer was frequently imposed on impressionable non-Christian students, which violated their constitutional rights.
The district ignored the Supreme Court's 1992 Lee decision limiting prayer at graduation ceremonies -- even after a district employee complained about the prayer at her child's 2003 graduation..
District teachers and staff led Bible clubs at several schools. Club members got to go to the head of the lunch line.
While Bible clubs were widely available, student book clubs were rare and often canceled by the district.
When Jane Doe complained that her non-Christian son Jordan Doe was left alone when his classmates when to Bible club meetings, district staff insisted that Jordan should attend the club, regardless of his religion.
The district schools attended by Jordan and his sister Jamie Doe distributed Bibles to students in 2003, giving them time off from class to pick up the books.
Prayer --often sectarian -- is a routine part of district sports programs and social events
One of the district's middle schools gave students the choice of attending a special Bible Club if they did not want to attend a lesson on evolution.
A middle school teacher told students there was only one true religion and gave them pamphlets for his surfing ministry.
Samantha Dobrich's honors English teacher frequently discussed Christianity, but no other religion.
Students frequently made mandatory appearances at district board meetings -- where they were a captive audience for board members' prayers to Jesus.
The Dobriches said the prayers to Jesus' ruined the graduation experience for Samantha. Mona Dobrich, Samantha's mother, repeatedly called district officials to complain. A board member told her she would have to get the matter put on a meeting agenda -- then refused to put it on the agenda. The school superintendent slipped the topic onto the agenda and then told Mona Dobrich she would need to raise it during the public comment period.
School board unyielding The board opened the June 15, 2004 meeting at which Dobrich was prepared to speak with a prayer in Jesus' name. The board was not forthcoming to her request that official prayers be in God's name rather than in Jesus' name. The high school athletic director veered from his agenda topic to encourage the board to keep praying in Jesus' name.
Board member Donald Hattier followed Dobrich out and offered to compromise by keeping graduation free of prayers to Jesus. And, according to the complaint, he warned her not to hire a lawyer.
A large crowd turned out for the next board meeting and many people spoke in support of school prayer. Mona Dobrich spoke passionately of her own outsider experience as a student in Indian River District schools and of how hard she'd worked to make sure her children didn't also feel like outsiders.
Hattier again approached her after the meeting. This time, the complaint alleges, he told her he'd spoken with the Rutherford Institute, a religious right legal group.
Talk show calls out a mob The district board announced the formation of a committee to develop a religion policy. And the local talk radio station inflamed the issue.
On the evening in August 2004 when the board was to announce its new policy, hundreds of people turned out for the meetng. The Dobrich family and Jane Doe felt intimidated and asked a state trooper to escort them.
The complaint recounts that the raucous crowd applauded the board's opening prayer and then, when sixth-grader Alexander Dobrich stood up to read a statement, yelled at him: take your yarmulke off! His statement, read by Samantha, confided I feel bad when kids in my class call me Jew boy.
A state representative spoke in support of prayer and warned board members that the people would replace them if they faltered on the issue. Other representatives spoke against separating god and state.
A former board member suggested that Mona Dobrich might disappear like Madalyn Murray O'Hair, the atheist whose Supreme Court case resulted in ending organized school prayer. O'Hair disappeared in 1995 and her dismembered body was found six years later.
The crowd booed an ACLU speaker and told her to go back up north.
In the days after the meeting the community poured venom on the Dobriches. Callers to the local radio station said the family they should convert or leave the area. Someone called them and said the Ku Klux Klan was nearby.
Killing Christ Classmates accused Alex Dobrich of killing Christ and he became fearful about wearing his yarmulke, the complaint recounts. He took it off whenever he saw a police officer, fearing that the officer might see it and pull over his mother's car. When the family went grocery shopping, the complaint says, Alexander would remove the pin holding his yarmulke on his head for fear that someone would grab it and rip out some of his hair.
The Dobriches refinanced their home so that Mona and Alexander could move to Wilmington, away from a situation that had become untenable, according to the complaint; Marco stayed behind because of his job, .
Ultimately, it continues, the expense of two households forced the Dobriches to sell their home. And Samantha was forced to withdraw from the joint program she attended at Columbia University and the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York. She is being treated for depression.
The lawsuit states that the Doe family wants to remain anonymous in order to avoid the retaliation experienced by the Dobrich family. Jordan and Jane Doe are also suffering from depression related to their opposition with the Indian River School District's religion policy.
Elusive religion policy Even after Mona and Alexander Dobrich moved to Wilmington, the family and its lawyers continued to request the district's policy on religion in the schools and to ask for meetings with the board. Their requests were stonewalled, so in February 2005 they filed suit.
In a statement issued through her attorneys and quoted by the Delaware Wave, Mona Dobrichexplained why the families were suing: We are not trying to remove God from the schools or the public square. We simply don't think it is right for the district to impose a particular religious view on impressionable students.
The families seek to recover damages and to compel changes in the school district's policy.
That policy, however, remains elusive.
At the request of a board member soon after the infamous graduation, the Rutherford Institute, prepared a prayer policy for the school board, according to the complaint. In October 2004 the board reportedly adopted a new policy on religion in response to the Dobrich's complaint.
It is unclear if that policy is the one prepared by the Rutherford Institute -- because no one has seen it. The Dobrich's complaint states that the policy was unavailable and when the families requested it the district told them to file a freedom of information request.
This June, the board had a reading of a proposed change in the unseen policy. They said the policy and its changes would be posted on their website, (www.irsd.net) but on June 27th, it was nowhere to be found among several dozen policy documents.
The Rutherford Institute enters the fray At the boisterous August 2004 district board meeting, the head of the Rutherford Institute, John Whitehead, urged the board to set an example for other schools, according to the Daily Times, a local paper.
A Rutherford affiliated lawyer, Thomas Neuberger, came into the case representing one of the school board members. Before he left the case last August (because the judge dismissed the individual board members from the case), Neuberger was reportedly feuding with other lawyers.
While he was in the case, his client, Reginald L. Helms reportedly admitted one of the lawsuit's allegations: that school officials invited Pastor Fike to the 2004 graduation. That undermined the district's claim that students chose the speakers.
Neuberger was quoted by the Delaware Wave newspaper denying that the Dobrich's son Alex was taunted as a Jew by classmates. I seriously doubt that it ever occurred, he told the paper, contending that the plaintiffs were using the allegation used to defame the good citizens who serve on this school board.
In its response to the lawsuit, the district reportedly called some of the families' claims immaterial, impertinent and scandalous, and intended only to cast the district in a negative light.
Settlement rejected In February 2006, the board unanimously rejected a settlement offer that would have required renaming Christmas and Easter breaks to winter and spring, respectively, and to put a Dobrich child at the top of a waiting list for an arts school. It would have permitted board members to continue praying at their meetings. (US District Judge Joseph J. Farnan, Jr., who is hearing the case, ruled last year that the prayer was a historic tradition and could continue.)
In April the board's insurance company, which had been representing the district in the lawsuit, filed suit against it (and the individual board members) because they had, against its advice, rejected the settlement offer. The board then fired the attorneys that had been representing them and hired a new set. The insurance company is reportedly refusing to pay for the board's legal defense from the date the members rejected the settlement offer.
According to the Coastal Point, the insurance company's complaint is sealed, as is the district's response. The district's taxpayers, who will pay the bill if the insurer prevails, cannot know the details of the case.
Attorney Thomas Allingham, who represents the Dobrich family in their case against the school district, says the board's behavior suggests it was not negotiating in good faith. Allingham told JewsOnFirst that several board members attended the settlement negotiations, which were under the auspices of a federal mediator. He said the members approved the settlement during those negotiations. But, when the board voted on the offer, they rejected it unanimously.
Allingham said the plaintiffs remained open to the possibility that the case could be settled. But the case is set for trial in June 2007 in Wilmington.
Board prayer allowed with settlement
By Jonathan Starkey, Coastal Point (Sussex County, Delaware), June 16, 2006
A settlement offered by the plaintiffs in the Dobrich/Doe prayer suit and denied unanimously by the Indian River School board on Feb. 27 would have allowed board members to continue opening monthly meetings with a prayer, a board member and two other sources close to the case told the Coastal Point. Click here for the report (a PDF file).
School board to discuss religion policy
By Jonathan Starkey, Coastal Point (Sussex County, Delaware), June 23, 2006
The policies regarding prayer at graduations and religion in school that were adopted by the Indian River School Board on Oct. 19, 2004, after they heard complaints from a Jewish family, might be amended next week.
The board held a first reading on the amended ordinances Tuesday but deferred a vote until after an executive session on Tuesday, June 27. Board members and district Superintendent Lois Hobbs wouldn’t comment on the specifics of the proposed amendments. Click here for the report (a PDF file).
School prayer lawsuit filed against district
By Sean O'Sullivan, Gannett News Service, Delaware Wave, March 2, 2005
Two sets of parents filed a federal lawsuit in Wilmington on Monday that seeks to bar the Indian River School District from promoting religion at school functions.
The parents, who also are seeking damages, claim in the lawsuit that their rights to free speech and to be free from state-sponsored religion have been violated.
We didn't want a lawsuit, but at this point we feel like we don't have any other choice, said Mona Dobrich, one of the parents, in a statement provided by attorney Thomas J. Allingham. We are not trying to remove God from the schools or the public square. We simply don't think it is right for the district to impose a particular religious view on impressionable students. Continue
School district disputes lawsuit
By Sean O'Sullivan, Gannett News Service, Delaware Wave, May 4, 2005
WILMINGTON -- Indian River school officials have filed papers in federal court denying virtually every claim in a Jewish family's lawsuit over school-sponsored Christian prayer.
John Balaguer, attorney for the school district, also asked a U.S. District judge to strike large sections of the complaint as immaterial, impertinent and scandalous.
Balaguer said the items were included solely to cast the district in a negative light. Continue
ACLU Sues to Stop School Board Prayer: Dobrich v. Walls
Rutherford Institute website entry on the Dobrich case.
JOF note: the ACLU is not involved in the case!
Attorneys for The Rutherford Institute have asked the U.S. District Court for the District of Delaware to dismiss a lawsuit recently filed by the ACLU against Reginald Helms in his official capacity as a member of the Indian River School District Board of Education. The lawsuit, which was filed by the ACLU in February 2005 against school board members in their personal and professional capacities, alleges that school- sponsored prayer “has pervaded the life of teachers and students” in the Indian River District schools. In their motion to have the case dismissed, Institute attorneys argue that as a school board member, Helms should have immunity from liability claims under the established doctrine of absolute legislative immunity.
An official with the Indian River School District Board of Education contacted The Rutherford Institute for help in August 2004, after the Wilmington, Del., branch of the ACLU demanded that IRSD board members stop opening their monthly business meetings with a prayer. Attorneys for The Rutherford Institute agreed to represent Reginald Helms, vice president of the IRSD Board of Education, in his individual capacity should the Delaware school district’s practice of opening meetings with a brief prayer be challenged. Despite pressure from the Wilmington chapter of the ACLU to cease issuing prayers at public events, officials with the IRSD opened a school board meeting on Aug. 24, 2004, with a brief invocation. Several hundred members of the community gathered at Frankford Elementary School for the monthly business meeting broke into applause after Board President Harvey Walls asked board member Dr. Donald G. Hattier to lead the board in a word of prayer. Hattier read a prayer given by George Washington during the Revolutionary War. During the business meeting, the board also issued a first reading of a policy concerning school prayer at baccalaureate and commencement ceremonies, which states that student-initiated, student-delivered, voluntary messages may be permitted during graduation ceremonies. Thomas Neuberger, a Rutherford affiliate attorney with the Neuberger Firm, which is based in Wilmington, Del., is defending school board member Reginald Helms against the ACLU’s lawsuit. (link)
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(I think the article is over the top, and wishful thinking by the author, BTW)
So, after Katrina in Gulfport, MS, here's what martial law was like:
1. When the troops moved in, they took over and started ordering us around like cattle. Offered to shoot us for even trying to ask 'em a question. Rude and mean to everyone. The skies were full of helicopters - felt like living in a MASH rerun. Jeeps raced up and down my street at double the speed limit, nearly running me over if I stuck a toe in the road. Nobody lifted a finger to help me clear the debris in my yard - in fact they were irritated that I dared set foot outside at all.
2. They commandeered any resource that was left, for the powers that be. They took over every airport, every gas station, every Walmart still standing, every hotel or restaurant that had a generator, jammed all the phone lines (and yes, folks, MINE STILL WORKED until the troops arrived, then suddenly it did not). All that stuff was appropriated for whoever they deemed important - the county officials, the media, rubbernecking senators they flew in. Woe unto you if you tried to get a drop of gas, a cold drink, or speak to anyone about why you could not - a gun gets stuck in your face.
3. Curfew makes you feel like a little kid when its given by your parents. It makes you feel like a criminal when its set by your government. Yeah, they offered to shoot me because I forgot something in my car and tried to leave my house to go get it. They had roadblocks on every corner. I worked at a hospital nights and daily had to show my ID just to get to work and back. People that didn't have a good reason to be out and about got turned back and threatened. They roadblocked all the highway exits to our town and turned away anybody that came offering help - saying it wasn't needed. Actually, they just weren't organized enough to accept donations or direct would-be heros where they could help - so they just turned them away, rudely. If you wanted to leave town after Katrina, forget it - they had taken all the gas away and didn't want us on the roads.
4. They sectioned off parts of our town with barbed wire and told us it was unsafe. Sorry, I walked through it right after the storm and knew it was no worse than the rest of the town. They threw residents that had survived the storm off their property and wouldn't let them come back without an armed escort and government permission. Sometimes they bulldozed their houses flat before letting them come back into the protected zone. All in the name of protecting them.
5. The majority of the soliders raced around acting important. Never saw any lift a finger to help anyone in any type of distress. I guess their orders were to stand around and wait for more orders, while intimidating us (obviously that's what the confused, scared, and needful survivors required from their government?). They also took over our local radio and had them tell us to just sit isolated in our houses and wait for help, and discouraged us from helping one another or traveling across town to help a friend. Nobody ever knocked on our door and asked us if we needed anything - so if I'd obeyed orders and believed help was coming I would have waited until I died. I suppose they wanted us to just sit there and die, so we'd be less hassle.
6. The only help we received were from average citizens brave enough to argue their way through the military road blocks. Not the government. Their function was to take over, snatch whatever comforts still existed, and isolate and scare us.
I was shocked I could be treated the way I was on American soil, and I realized it can happen anywhere to anyone, if and when the powers that be decide to take over an area for whatever reason they deem necessary. I suddenly realized this happens all over the world in wartime, when our troops move in to occupy their country - and I realized I felt like those people must have felt at the sight of the soldiers. Most people just don't think it can happen here - well trust me, it can and it does. Maybe next time, in your neighborhood.
(I think the article is over the top, and wishful thinking by the author, BTW)
So, after Katrina in Gulfport, MS, here's what martial law was like:
1. When the troops moved in, they took over and started ordering us around like cattle. Offered to shoot us for even trying to ask 'em a question. Rude and mean to everyone. The skies were full of helicopters - felt like living in a MASH rerun. Jeeps raced up and down my street at double the speed limit, nearly running me over if I stuck a toe in the road. Nobody lifted a finger to help me clear the debris in my yard - in fact they were irritated that I dared set foot outside at all.
2. They commandeered any resource that was left, for the powers that be. They took over every airport, every gas station, every Walmart still standing, every hotel or restaurant that had a generator, jammed all the phone lines (and yes, folks, MINE STILL WORKED until the troops arrived, then suddenly it did not). All that stuff was appropriated for whoever they deemed important - the county officials, the media, rubbernecking senators they flew in. Woe unto you if you tried to get a drop of gas, a cold drink, or speak to anyone about why you could not - a gun gets stuck in your face.
3. Curfew makes you feel like a little kid when its given by your parents. It makes you feel like a criminal when its set by your government. Yeah, they offered to shoot me because I forgot something in my car and tried to leave my house to go get it. They had roadblocks on every corner. I worked at a hospital nights and daily had to show my ID just to get to work and back. People that didn't have a good reason to be out and about got turned back and threatened. They roadblocked all the highway exits to our town and turned away anybody that came offering help - saying it wasn't needed. Actually, they just weren't organized enough to accept donations or direct would-be heros where they could help - so they just turned them away, rudely. If you wanted to leave town after Katrina, forget it - they had taken all the gas away and didn't want us on the roads.
4. They sectioned off parts of our town with barbed wire and told us it was unsafe. Sorry, I walked through it right after the storm and knew it was no worse than the rest of the town. They threw residents that had survived the storm off their property and wouldn't let them come back without an armed escort and government permission. Sometimes they bulldozed their houses flat before letting them come back into the protected zone. All in the name of protecting them.
5. The majority of the soliders raced around acting important. Never saw any lift a finger to help anyone in any type of distress. I guess their orders were to stand around and wait for more orders, while intimidating us (obviously that's what the confused, scared, and needful survivors required from their government?). They also took over our local radio and had them tell us to just sit isolated in our houses and wait for help, and discouraged us from helping one another or traveling across town to help a friend. Nobody ever knocked on our door and asked us if we needed anything - so if I'd obeyed orders and believed help was coming I would have waited until I died. I suppose they wanted us to just sit there and die, so we'd be less hassle.
6. The only help we received were from average citizens brave enough to argue their way through the military road blocks. Not the government. Their function was to take over, snatch whatever comforts still existed, and isolate and scare us.
I was shocked I could be treated the way I was on American soil, and I realized it can happen anywhere to anyone, if and when the powers that be decide to take over an area for whatever reason they deem necessary. I suddenly realized this happens all over the world in wartime, when our troops move in to occupy their country - and I realized I felt like those people must have felt at the sight of the soldiers. Most people just don't think it can happen here - well trust me, it can and it does. Maybe next time, in your neighborhood.
(I think the article is over the top, and wishful thinking by the author, BTW)
So, after Katrina in Gulfport, MS, here's what martial law was like:
1. When the troops moved in, they took over and started ordering us around like cattle. Offered to shoot us for even trying to ask 'em a question. Rude and mean to everyone. The skies were full of helicopters - felt like living in a MASH rerun. Jeeps raced up and down my street at double the speed limit, nearly running me over if I stuck a toe in the road. Nobody lifted a finger to help me clear the debris in my yard - in fact they were irritated that I dared set foot outside at all.
2. They commandeered any resource that was left, for the powers that be. They took over every airport, every gas station, every Walmart still standing, every hotel or restaurant that had a generator, jammed all the phone lines (and yes, folks, MINE STILL WORKED until the troops arrived, then suddenly it did not). All that stuff was appropriated for whoever they deemed important - the county officials, the media, rubbernecking senators they flew in. Woe unto you if you tried to get a drop of gas, a cold drink, or speak to anyone about why you could not - a gun gets stuck in your face.
3. Curfew makes you feel like a little kid when its given by your parents. It makes you feel like a criminal when its set by your government. Yeah, they offered to shoot me because I forgot something in my car and tried to leave my house to go get it. They had roadblocks on every corner. I worked at a hospital nights and daily had to show my ID just to get to work and back. People that didn't have a good reason to be out and about got turned back and threatened. They roadblocked all the highway exits to our town and turned away anybody that came offering help - saying it wasn't needed. Actually, they just weren't organized enough to accept donations or direct would-be heros where they could help - so they just turned them away, rudely. If you wanted to leave town after Katrina, forget it - they had taken all the gas away and didn't want us on the roads.
4. They sectioned off parts of our town with barbed wire and told us it was unsafe. Sorry, I walked through it right after the storm and knew it was no worse than the rest of the town. They threw residents that had survived the storm off their property and wouldn't let them come back without an armed escort and government permission. Sometimes they bulldozed their houses flat before letting them come back into the protected zone. All in the name of protecting them.
5. The majority of the soliders raced around acting important. Never saw any lift a finger to help anyone in any type of distress. I guess their orders were to stand around and wait for more orders, while intimidating us (obviously that's what the confused, scared, and needful survivors required from their government?). They also took over our local radio and had them tell us to just sit isolated in our houses and wait for help, and discouraged us from helping one another or traveling across town to help a friend. Nobody ever knocked on our door and asked us if we needed anything - so if I'd obeyed orders and believed help was coming I would have waited until I died. I suppose they wanted us to just sit there and die, so we'd be less hassle.
6. The only help we received were from average citizens brave enough to argue their way through the military road blocks. Not the government. Their function was to take over, snatch whatever comforts still existed, and isolate and scare us.
I was shocked I could be treated the way I was on American soil, and I realized it can happen anywhere to anyone, if and when the powers that be decide to take over an area for whatever reason they deem necessary. I suddenly realized this happens all over the world in wartime, when our troops move in to occupy their country - and I realized I felt like those people must have felt at the sight of the soldiers. Most people just don't think it can happen here - well trust me, it can and it does. Maybe next time, in your neighborhood.
Yes, right, because all of the women who
have abortions are simply sluts who can't keep their legs closed. Nobody has an abortion because they were raped and victims of a horrible abuse.
But I sure do dislike a bunch of women, and most of the ones I dislike happen to be democrats, who want to be taken care of by the social democrat party.
So much for your women libbers and feminists. I never could quite understand how feminists could be dems, as they sure don't want to be taken care of by men. Then why would they let the government try to take complete control over their lives. Explain that one for me, please. I just shake my head at you all, I really do.
And by the way, do you have some crystal ball that you know exactly why McCain chose Palin to be his running mate? I sincerely doubt any women will come running over to his side to vote, but you can sure bet he shored up his conservative base, which I believe was his intention. And it's going to work, too.
Obama/Biden don't stand a chance. Just wait and watch.
We will....and so will a lot of women out there in America...
who identify with her. THere is a reason Obama said to leave her alone.
embarassment to women?
I'm a woman and not embarassed, that would be your opinion. There were plenty of more qualified democratic candidates also but look who we got, Barack Obama.
Sure, most all women who believe in murdering
@
Seriously. Why do you suppose women
The onus of birth control is not gender specific. My own son learned this lesson when he was 9 years old when his only cousin was diagnosed with HIV. He takes precautions and asks the right questions. He does not have sex with women who are not willing to show him the pill or discuss openly with him how they would respond to an unwanted pregnancy...and he makes his own views plainly known in no uncertain terms...that he does not feel he is ready for the responsibilities of fatherhood and that he ALSO has the right to make this decision without moral persecution.
Most women share the news of a pregnancy with the father in the hopes that he will take on the responsibilities of fatherhood. The ones who do not more than likely already know what the answer will be. Unwanted pregnancies have a way isolating the mother, blaming her for having gotten pregnant in the first place in much the same way you have inferred in your parting shot (as though the father has suddenly become canceled out of the equation) and giving all sorts of folks license to condemn and weigh in on the decision. In the event that support is forthcoming, most women WILL have the child more often than not.
What about the thousands of men and women
who lost their lives in that "mistake" that Bush made. Maybe that should be in that post too. I bet their families feel like they had plenty of courage.
So, it's okay with you for women to not receive....
equal wages for equal work. Maybe you would be okay with us just going back to the stick at home and support your man theory. Maybe we shouldn't think for ourselves. Why don't you come to the rescue for Obama, or anyone else for that matter? She is a politician by choice, and we all know the scrutiny and criticism that comes with that. I don't plan on treating her with kid gloves just because she has a vagina. You, on the other hand seem to have a double standard, and that double standard does not help with the cause for equality for women.
So are you saying that all women should be pro-choice or
they are an insult to women as a whole?
They are not children. They are grown women.
It's their choice. Can you say with certainty that if one of them or both of them came to George Bush and said I am joining the Marines he would talk them out of it? I just don't see it that way. At any rate, again, they have a mind of their own.
I agree. Women will have them - legal or not
Although I don't think I would ever consider abortion personally and am also sickened by people who have them over and over again (get your tubes tied darn it!!!), I believe women will have them regardless of if they are legal or not, so I think it is much safer if they remain legal.
I also think the woman should have the choice of what to do with something that is actually inside of her body. She is the one ultimately 100% responsible for the medical bills due to the pregnancy, the emotional toll and physical risks of the pregnancy, and the child's well being afterwards. The man can get off scott free if he wants and skip from job to job to avoid paying child support, so it should definitely be up to the woman.
I also find it odd that many pro-life Republicans are so adamant that each baby have a chance to be born, but yet if that baby is born to a lower-class mother many (not all) don't want a dime of their money to go to help that baby with healthcare costs or any other costs that could help the child after it's actually born. Where is the deep concern for the children that are actually living?
Though the thought of abortion is definitely disturbing to me, I do not believe at less than 3 months old a baby's nerves are developed enough to feel pain as they are aborted, but I know for a fact many children in the USA are being abused and neglected on a daily basis because they were unwanted, and my heart breaks for them. There are over 100,000 foster kids in the USA right now that need good homes and more resources, and I think our focus should be on helping these children first. My sister has 2 amazing foster kids, and I really wish the anti-abortion activists would focus on fostering or helping the kids that are here now instead of focusing so much on fetuses that are inside of other women's bodies, and therefore really none of their business in my personal opinion. (I know some do foster and volunteer, but I have a sneaking suspicion that not all of them do!)
Where women are little more than breeding stock???
If some women were a little more discerning about who they slept with and a little more careful about taking precautions, we would not have to fix 2000+ "oopses" in a day. So go right ahead...fund irresponsibility, infanticide, and baby killing. Knock yourself out. Make planned parenthood richer. don't you think there is something sick about making a profit from killing babies??
Like women who are resistant to every form of BC
Before you start preaching to me about adoption, been there, done that. Easy for you to say from your ivory tower pulpit. Try it once of twice, like I did, and then come back and tell us all how right it is for "everyone concerned." Blinded to your own gender by right-wing dogma. Not exactly the perfect example to follow. Stay out of other people's business unless you know what you are talking about.
Women who "do" ABs or adoptions do NOT
None of us need spend a single second defending ourselves against this santimonious slop. Take it back to the church where it belongs and remember the Sermon on the Mount while you are at it...judge not, lest ye be judged.
You have a lot of nerve assuming these women
xoxoxo
Not according to what the public is saying out there...women are upset...sm
Palin is the complete opposite of Hillary being pro-Choice. Hillary voters are not voting for just any woman...go to other sites and read for yourself...
The conservative posters on this board are no more sensitive about Palin than the other side is about Obama.
It is not personal for me either. I'm sure Obama is a nice person...and I am personally sure he is not the right man for the #1 job. He has a socialist agenda and socialist policies and I think that would be disastrous for America. That in a nutshell is my problem with him.
Some liberal dem women are = most cruel to their own sex ....sm
than any people I've ever known in my life.
Well, there are liberal women in Alaska....
no kiddin! Geez. They borrowed the signs from the lower 48; heck, they may BE from the lower 48. Did anybody really think there were not liberal Democratic women in Alaska? This is news?
If men checking out women's butts ....
means they are not qualified to be President...take out the whole male race. Sheesh.
And you could have been a little less crude in your description.
Being led by his anatomy didn't seem to bother Clinton's ability to govern. Multiple affairs including one in the white house, but many Democrats think he was the second coming.
If Slick Willie could do it, I have no problem believing McCain could.
JFK had affairs. RFK had affairs. Why don't we just go down a tick list? Where was all the righteous indignation then?
That one, I'm all for - if they could use that to find a cure for or treat cancer, MD, or anything else, imagine how fabulous that would be!!!
Why don't women have a right to choose suicide?
Why is it a woman can chose to murder an unborn child because it's "her body" - a scientific impossibility...
But if that woman decided to kill HERSELF - when it actually IS her body - it's a crime.
You promote abortion. The fact that you don't want to admit it proves that somewhere in your dank, shriveled-up little soul, there's at least one ounce of decency that knows what you're professing is wrong.
You are pro-abortion. You're just in denial about it. LIke every other "proud Liberal" lunatic.
Yes, many of them hire good-looking women
nm
You got your wish. An MP was shot in the leg by looters. Women are being raped.
Police are turning in their badges because they say their homes are gone and it isn't worth it to them to get shot stopping looters. There is anarchy in New Orleans. Your with come true.
Throwing bleach on 70-year-old women...
destroying property...not necessary to do either of those to exercise free speech. They were acting like thugs. I believe they were going to engage in "civil" disobedience. Injuring innocent people and destroying private property is hardly civil.
I am all for free speech...I am also for respecting innocent people and the property of others.
I am proud of strong, intelligent women... sm
Expressing their opinion and speaking out. Just because they're not infatuated with SP and disagree with her idealogy doesn't mean what they're saying is hateful. I've seen much more hateful things here on this board than on that blog.
You (and a lot of people) seem to be taking any negative comments about SP very personally. Is there no critism of her you'll stand? Come on. McCain wants her to be the VP and no one who thinks otherwise can say anything about her w/o it being "hateful" ? How ridiculous.
I don't agree with her views on the issues. It's not personal. I'm sure she's a lovely person, I'm just not convinced she's the best person for the job. In a nutshell, that is my problem with McCain's choice of her for his VP.
your statement/sarcasm is proof women have NOT
x
I find it fascinating that women really hate her...
so much for that feminist mantra I am woman, hear me roar...oh, wait, only roar if you think and act like us or else get back in the kitchen where you belong. They hate her because she is either everything they aren't or can't be or they feel guilty. Anger comes from fear. While I agree that she does have little experience in foreign affairs, the top guy on the other ticket doesn't have that much either. For that fact, Clinton and Carter had little foreign affairs experience also. Didn't stop them from becoming president; this lady is running for VP. And please don't give the song and dance about McCain's health, any one can die at any time, age has nothing to do with it. Biden has had 2 brain aneuryms in the past. Eight presidents have died in office, 4 assassinated, and 7 VPs have died in office.
News flash for you.......their women are scared
They are afraid to even move the wrong way for fear of retribution. THey are afraid to let their daughters go to school because they fear what will happen to them on the way to school. Of course, the women will treat you with respect. The women aren't usually the problem. It's the beliefs the men have forced down their throats and those of their daughters. Don't misinterpret respect for fear, fear of doing anything that could get them beaten to death. There are some more liberal areas where beliefs are not as harsh and families are not so demanding of their women and daughters; Saudi Arabia and Iran are two of them, but even Iranian women are coming under attack again and are fearful of even crossing the street.
Like I have been told by Muslim women in this country who are no longer under the control of men from those countries, they feel such a relief and do not have to fear for their lives every day. They will tell you their sons are taught from a small age to chant verses of hate over and over again, brainwashing them. Only those that are lucky enough to be in a more liberal environment and even leave the country abroad for education purposes realize the difference in the teachings from other religions, where love is actually taught.
Alaksa Women Reject Palin sm
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