I'm not arguing this anymore, it's pointless
Posted By: DW on 2007-11-15
In Reply to: Okay, I get it....liberals believe that the mother's choice.... - Observer
but your last argument hit me. If abortion was made illegal and I got pregnant and carrying that baby was going to kill me - then someone would have the power to choose whether I live or die - the people who chose to make abortion illegal.
And before anyone argues that abortion would be allowed in those cases, who would get to decide? The courts? By the time the case went through the sluggish system, it could be too late.
This debate has no winner, everyone has their own views. However, from a legal standpoint it either has to be legal or illegal. A pregnant woman is not given the luxury of time for the court to decide whether it is okay in her particular case to be allowed to have an abortion.
God bless.
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Pointless with you....you definitely don't take your
xx
pointless investigations like
White Water, White House travel office . . . .
Pointless to argue....maybe but
we sat idley by while Madelyn Murray O'Hair trampled our "pearls".
so, just like I thought, the original post was pointless!
nm
Arguing with a know-it-all...nm
!
I believe she's arguing for something .....
xx
No use arguing. You have your
opinion and I have mine. Sorry but I heard it directly from McCain's own mouth that he would stay in Iraq 100 years if that's what it took? If that's what it took for what? The region has never been "stable" and it isn't going to be stable now. The people don't want us there. If they want freedom let them fight for it themselves. Read much about the American Revolution lately? This war was and is about oil. Wasn't Bush cronies with Sadam? As well as Cheney? Maybe even McCain?
No use arguing
we've been over this about 100 times and I'm not even going to waste my time.
I'm done arguing with you.
If you cannot see the massive difference between the RELIGION of Islam and the FAITH of Christianity, well then we don't even have a basis for discussion.
I pointed out that they are anti-gay to point out the fact that instead of FORGIVENESS, which the ONE TRUE GOD gives, they offer death. Where Jesus came to sacrifice Himself for atonement for us (who didn't deserve it), Muslims must work their entire lives to try to appease Allah by works alone. Where Jesus commanded us to love our enemies, Allah commands Muslims to kill theirs. Where our God tells us "thou shalt not lie" Allah tells Muslims it's okay to lie in order to further their religion.
That's just the beginning. I could go all night.
Oh one more thing. The founder of Islam's bones can still be found to this day. The founder of Christianity's bones cannot be found. Why? He was resurrected. No other religion even claims the resurrection of their god or founder. Why? Because their god, gods or founder cannot conquer death. If their god cannot conquer death, then how can he/she/them/it offer anything after this life to them?
It is not hypocritical to proclaim truth. Truth is not relative, as most postmodernist want to claim. The statement "truth is relative" in itself destroys the statement, for if truth is relative, then that means that statement cannot actually be true all the time, which means truth is not always relative. So the cop-out saying "what's true for you isn't true for me" is also a fallacy.
I don't understand you or those in line with you. If I only agreed with half the Bible, or changed it to be more politically correct, you all would point out that I am not a devoted Christian. But if I follow the Bible completely (at least try to) then I am close-minded, hypocritical, etc. It's d@mned if I do, d@mned if I don't. God commands Christian's to fight for what is TRUTH and to hold His Word above even the law of the land. We are told to go and tell, not to keep our faith to ourselves. We do as we are commanded and get bashed for it. But that's okay, because we were already told that would happen.
The only reason the USA has been such a great nation is because God was behind it. It USED to be a Christian nation. But I believe God is getting pretty fed up with the nation as a whole and will soon remove His protection from it, if He hasn't already. Our nation has become so arrogant as to believe that God is not involved or needed here, so I believe, being the gentleman He is, that He has stepped out, and that's why everywhere you look we are having problems and we are quickly going down the tubes.
That's all I can say on the subject. You obviously already have your mind made up about what Christianity is, so there is no use trying to discuss it any further.
No point in arguing with you though. So your
I suppose your comments will not bother me if I do not try to argue/respond, so I no longer will. Easy solution. It's not that I don't think you have some relatively reasonable views on providing health care to kids, you just aren't willing to have your taxes raised to provide that care, and that is your personal feeling. I could come up with some great solutions too, but the fact is that you and I are not a part of Congress, and any hypothetical solutions we come up with are going to do nothing to cover the families that could benefit from the S-SCHIP right now, which is when these families need help - right now. I will gladly support any bill that is designed to ease medical costs for any family. I will gladly have my taxes raised if it means children and families making middle-income wages suffer less.
So you can respond to this if you want, but I will no longer respond to any of your posts.
Sam is officially arguing with herself.
nm
Looks like you want to keep arguing on a subject that's old and done with
We don't need to keep going over issues on abortion. We all know what abortion is. I started reading your post and didn't know if you were trying to give us a medical course on "what to expect when your expecting" or if you were preaching to us from a religious standpoint. This issue was discussed and debated and argued over extensively below. It looks like you were'nt satisfied and want to argue some more - and from what it sounds like from others this has just bored all of us to sleep. I thought the political board was for political discussions, not pregnancy lessons or religious beliefs about when a fetus actually becomes a human being.
Move on...too many other topics to discuss. BTW, no need to shout at us with your headline.
I wasn't arguing!
All I was saying to Stardust was that Obama has said the same thing Mccain has. She is the one who said that we needed to "check our facts" before saying something about Obama because Mccain had said that he was going to be president. I was just pointing out and providing proof that Obama has said the same thing on multiple occasions, meaning I was pointing out that there IS NO ARGUMENT on this issue because BOTH CANDIDATES have said "WHEN I AM PRESIDENT" or something along those lines.
If I didn't like arguing with you...(sm)
I wouldn't have responded...ROFL. I enjoy engaging you, and several others on here (most with opposite views from mine -- go figure) as the conversation is always stimulating and thought provoking. Yeah, we need to have this discussion on the faith board....LOL.
There is no arguing with that kind of logic.
Alex Jones is not a physicist or a structuralist, I presume. The people who built the WTC explained how the extreme heat from the jet fuel caused the buildings to topple. There is no use arguing this with you. You have chosen to believe it and there you have it.
I'm really not interested in arguing the point...sm
Of who is worst because you are right they all were wrong. I just don't understand why when someone does something wrong people expect you to not say anything about it because *others* have committed similar crimes in the past and got away with it. And??
I understand being upset about Studd and even Clinton if you feel that strongly about it, but don't expect business as usual when a scandal like this hits the fan. People are going to talk about it. 23 years ago when Studd was having his affair I was in grade school so excuse me for first not knowing what you were talking about (until I researched it) and second not seeing the relevance of it in the case of Foley. I'm sure there was outrage for what Studd did too. Now upon learning about Studd and his (I can't say that here), I even said I do not know how or why the people continued to vote him in and yeah he should have had the decency to step down. Sorry you think I'm being partisan - NO far from it. I am always disgusted with people who prey on children, birth to the day before they turn 18, sexually.
Oh and don't expect me or anyone else to think Foley is some stand up type of guy because he stepped down AFTER GETTING CAUGHT, mind you. Had he not been caught he would still be IM'ing children.
Yeah Clinton was wrong for lying under oath. He should have told the truth and apologized *to his wife*. It's not like it is illegal to have an extramarital affair.
Like you said, they are all morally wrong, but I tend to be more disgusted with child predators. It doesn't matter if you agree with me (there are plenty of people who do). We'll just have to agree to disagree.
One point you didn't bring up was Foley's job responsibility. That makes it a little more eerie. Are people not supposed to be disappointed that this is who we have in charge of protecting our children?
No sense arguing with "Spam" ---
This is like arguing with a fence post....lol.
I said that Cuba started with a socialist revolution, all the people thought it was going to be wonderful, enter Che Guevara, Marxist (oh there is that word again), and it went quickly from socialism to communism, and the only ones doing well in Cuba are the ones close to Castro. Even Guevara didn't stay, he moved on to Bolivia to start another revolution (still looking for that perfect Marxist society that never happens)...and he died there. If you really cared about this and what might happen to your country more than you care about getting one over on me, you would get informed. But...obviously that is not your modus operandi. So attack away. Knock yourself out. Pat yourself on the back. Mea culpa. lol.
A lot of this arguing back and forth seems futile
when it is the undecided people who will probably count. If you are republican you vote McCain, democrat Obama. I could never understand why we always end up to only 2 candidates. How is that any kind of progress. Shouldn't there be 2 or 3 nominees from each party. Could that be worse than what we have now?
Guess you got tired of arguing with your
self!
Please STOP! The arguing back and forth about what you would do (sm)
is so disrespectful. Please just drop that subject. You have no idea what you would really do in his situation. I am voting for McCain, but I can still have respect for others.
Wow, you sound pretty miserable. I am not arguing about anything...
simply stating my opinion. It seems like many here on this board have some bug up their behinds, are bitter and angry (most tend to be O supporters, go figure) and can't have adult conversation without resorting to name calling.
I stand by both my posts...meanwhile, you're arguing with someone else
....argued with oldtimer's post, and she's for Obama.
Too funny, you just attack anyone that you think is putting Obama or Biden down.
Get a grip!
politics are so heated in my family sometimes we actually find ourselves arguing about who gets to l
x
Again my point is made - you just like arguing and bashing people that don't agree with you
Your bringing up a dead subject while shouting it at us. You started an abortion post on 8/25 and bashed everyone who didn't agree with you, and you were bashing people on 8/22 about the same subject. Everytime someone brought up their viewpoint you be arguing or bashing them. The point I (and others) are making is you keep bringing this up again and again and again and again and when people don't agree with you you bash them, then when they come back to say something you bash them even more. Then when we finally get a break and have new topics, you start another post about the abortion thing again. The abortion issue is getting tiring for all. We know what abortions are, how horrible they are, and we know how babies are made and the stages of their lives (we are MT's and all took the course) but you feel the need to keep it up and up and up and it's getting real old. Besides that it looks like you are posting under other names and then answering yourself.
I want to read people's opinions and questions of issues we are facing. Abortion is not one of them for most of us. Let it go and move on. What I am trying to say is that while I'd like to hear your viewpoints on other issues enough with the abortion and try and not be so argumentative all the time.
Yes, we all have the right to post things, but it looks like you are posting just for the sake of arguing and we're all getting tired of it.
So go ahead bash me some more.
they don't do that anymore...
You get a maxium amount regardless of how many kids you have.
what I would do is make them take a class a month towards a trade, CNA, teaching assist, something in demand, in order to get their welfare for the next month, unless they were getting it b/c they were disabled.
Not anymore they don't!
--
This is not an option anymore
I've been listening to the news people talking and this is not an option anymore. Barack is being polite about this, but I see no way for them to run together. Her time has passed. He is now looking at other very qualified people to be VP. One is a woman and one is even a republican. A lot of people think that it will be so easy to win over republicans this fall, but if McCain is running against Hillary he for sure will win as there is too much negativity about Hillary. I cannot stand McCain, but I for one would vote for him over Hillary. First I would change my party to independent, and then I would vote for McCain. People are saying there are three parties running here. The republicans, the democrats and the Clintons. The Clintons have put themselves into their own party. Although a vote for Clinton and a vote for McCain are virtually the same thing. She used to be a republican before she switched to democrat years ago, and her voting record is quite conservative. I for one am glad that Obama is looking at other people for VP slot and his list is pretty impressive. The candidates all seem to be very good choices and I hear many people really respect these people. There are even a lot of republicans who do not want McCain in there, however, they want Hillary even less. I believe that if Obama is the nominee he will win as a lot of republicans will back him, but if Hillary is in there McCain will win as she and Bill have so much bad history attached to them. The only people who are now pushing for an Obama/Hillary ticket are the Hillary supporters as they are trying anything and everything to get her in there, but none of the talk of them running together is coming from Obama's side. Makes you kind of think about that.
On another note it seems as if every state she wins she tries to convince people that if you don't win that state you will not win in November. Funny how these states never include the ones she lost in. You don't hear her saying that about Iowa or Minnesota. We sit and laugh and say nice try Hillary. Then we listen to the news and they say the same thing.
I really don't care anymore.
They can call me what they want. Only I know if I am or not a racist. I do know I am against the dems so if that makes me a racist, so be it.
Will not be a river anymore is why we
So hot that the rivers and lakes are drying up.
Okay, I can't stand it anymore....
the answer is......Hitler. His directive 51 was pretty much the same thing.
I don't think it matters anymore
We are on the brink of a major depression. I don't know that anything they do will prevent it. The best they can do is maybe lessen the severity and length. The automakers, credit card companies, and banks are going to end up like the airlines (at best) in having to be propped up for an indefinite period of time by the government.
I know. So did I but I don't care anymore.
I was called a racist just because I don't trust O. So be it. It sure was a surprise to my foster son.
We don't buy dog food anymore....
and that saves a lot of money.
That's why we don't watch TV anymore -
TV is just for movies and entertainment. Can't expect to get any "real" news from the tube.
Does it get anymore juvenile than this?
Or is it just party dumb we see here?
Not anymore. We are THEIR servants. They are not ours. (nm)
.
You won't be anymore uninformed than he will....he
NM
No, I refuse to try and debate you anymore
because you can't be anything but condescending and ugly.
MT doesn't hang around here much anymore. sm
So I am going to take up for her. Frankly, I am not sure why you are so upset. So your friend exaggerated. Lots of people do that. MT (and most of us) have certainly taken our licks on these boards a lot of times. I really don't see why you being so mean about it.
Is this the liberal board anymore?
I give you Democrats and/or liberals credit for even being able to respond to the right wing who for some reason, I just cannot understand why, constantly come over to the liberal board and post more than the liberals do and every post is a disagreement or outright attack towards the liberal poster who posted on the liberal board..I frankly have had it with the Republicans. They have messed up America with their backward way of thinking and they still dont get it. Their party is falling apart and they are looking at more Democrats being voted in yet they still spew their hate, bias, closed mindedness..From Limbaugh to Coulter to Falwell to Robertson, Dobson, Hannity, etc., etc., they show the world how uninformed and racist and backward they are..and the Republican masses follow blindly. I just about choked on the latest idiotic comment by Coulter concerning Christians and Jews. Someone needs to set that broad straight real fast. The comments she made that Jews need to be perfected is a mind set right out of Hitlers Germany. Oh and all you Republicans who will wander over to the liberal board and real this, dont waste the energy, I will not respond to your posts nor read them. This is a post to my fellow Democrats/liberals.
Oh my God. You really sound ignorant, but I am not going to say anymore. nm
/....
Well, I don't trust any politician anymore
It seems they're only out to rip us off. As soon as I heard of this "buying" votes, the idea of the O coming so quick from nothing to president elect and was from Illinois gave me the idea that he bought his seat. I've been watching the news and maybe that's what they do in Illinois without realizing it's wrong. After all, there have been so many politicians from there that have been indicted for political crimes, I'm thinking that it's a natural way of doing "business" there. Even the governor doesn't think he did anything wrong. Are they a different country and we don't know it?
No one would listen and he is not an option anymore sm
I started preparing and investing in sound money 2 years ago because of him. My silver may end up being worth $200 an ounce and all the Federal Reserve Notes will be worth the same as Monopoly money. We all knew this was coming and it is going to get worse. Note the date:
Congressman Ron Paul
U.S. House of Representatives
July 16, 2002
Mr. Speaker, I rise to introduce the Free Housing Market Enhancement Act. This legislation restores a free market in housing by repealing special privileges for housing-related government sponsored enterprises (GSEs). These entities are the Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie), the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie), and the National Home Loan Bank Board (HLBB). According to the Congressional Budget Office, the housing-related GSEs received $13.6 billion worth of indirect federal subsidies in fiscal year 2000 alone.
One of the major government privileges granted these GSEs is a line of credit to the United States Treasury. According to some estimates, the line of credit may be worth over $2 billion. This explicit promise by the Treasury to bail out these GSEs in times of economic difficulty helps them attract investors who are willing to settle for lower yields than they would demand in the absence of the subsidy. Thus, the line of credit distorts the allocation of capital. More importantly, the line of credit is a promise on behalf of the government to engage in a massive unconstitutional and immoral income transfer from working Americans to holders of GSE debt.
The Free Housing Market Enhancement Act also repeals the explicit grant of legal authority given to the Federal Reserve to purchase the debt of housing-related GSEs. GSEs are the only institutions besides the United States Treasury granted explicit statutory authority to monetize their debt through the Federal Reserve. This provision gives the GSEs a source of liquidity unavailable to their competitors.
Ironically, by transferring the risk of a widespread mortgage default, the government increases the likelihood of a painful crash in the housing market. This is because the special privileges of Fannie, Freddie, and HLBB have distorted the housing market by allowing them to attract capital they could not attract under pure market conditions. As a result, capital is diverted from its most productive use into housing. This reduces the efficacy of the entire market and thus reduces the standard of living of all Americans.
However, despite the long-term damage to the economy inflicted by the government’s interference in the housing market, the government’s policies of diverting capital to other uses creates a short-term boom in housing. Like all artificially-created bubbles, the boom in housing prices cannot last forever. When housing prices fall, homeowners will experience difficulty as their equity is wiped out. Furthermore, the holders of the mortgage debt will also have a loss. These losses will be greater than they would have otherwise been had government policy not actively encouraged over-investment in housing.
Perhaps the Federal Reserve can stave off the day of reckoning by purchasing GSE debt and pumping liquidity into the housing market, but this cannot hold off the inevitable drop in the housing market forever. In fact, postponing the necessary but painful market corrections will only deepen the inevitable fall. The more people invested in the market, the greater the effects across the economy when the bubble bursts.
No less an authority than Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan has expressed concern that government subsidies provided to the GSEs make investors underestimate the risk of investing in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Mr. Speaker, it is time for Congress to act to remove taxpayer support from the housing GSEs before the bubble bursts and taxpayers are once again forced to bail out investors misled by foolish government interference in the market. I therefore hope my colleagues will stand up for American taxpayers and investors by cosponsoring the Free Housing Market Enhancement Act.
I agree with you. I was on the fence, too, but not anymore
I thought Obama was going to be my choice then I did some research because I wondered how he was going to accomplish all those ideas. It's a dream scheme, nothing but a lot of hot air and higher taxes as usual. There's no way he can do what he wants to do.
McCain is not promising the world on a silver platter. He's not the greatest speaker, but I believe he'll do a better job.
Families abandon their own a lot anymore.
nm
He isn't unskilled anymore then. Why do you want to argue about EVERYTHING? SM
BS
More the reason we don't need anymore taxes
@
Not anymore monotonous than the rote...
ohhhbaaamaaa can do no wrong. What alternate reality do you exist in that you think just because he won the election people who are concerned about what he will do will just fold their tents and go home? That we would all join the Obama lovefest? Seriously???? lol.
I can't write too fast anymore, but here's what I did get
1. Fiscal Stimulus Plan: Before or after inauguration (sp). Wants to get it moving quickly, but if he has to wait until January 20, so be it, but states he will try during these couple months to push one through now.
2. Retooling assistance plan for automakers for fuel-effieicnt cars. He realizes that the auto industry employs thousands and other companies depend on the auto industry for their jobs. Wants this package done quickly.
3. Review implementaion of plans and not rewarding management for housing problems that are caused.
4. Grow middle class in the long term.
Reporters asked questions but couldn't get them all.
1. He wants to help the states financially.
2. As to going to other countries for conferences: He is developing a team and weighing all his options. Iran's nuclear weapons are unacceptable along with the militants. This has to cease. It's not something he can do in a knee-jerk fashion and wants to be careful (not to p--s them off).
3. Tax plan: 95% of WORKING Americans will get it. His first goal is tax relief for struggling families and to build the economy from the bottom up.
That's all I could get.
Unions don't work anymore.
Some union members are afraid to vote for better benefits or strike because management threatens to move, like the other posters stated.
Case in point: A small manufacturing shop. Union wanted higher wages or strike, and health care benefits to stay the same, both in cost and care. The union wanted a $.25 an hour raise. Owner said No. Union asked for $.15. Owner said no. Union said strike. Workers said no. They were afraid the owner would shut down and they had their jobs for 30 years.
The union steward fought for better benefits but when the workers voted against the better benefits, the company won. Two weeks later, the steward was laid off, along with a member of my family just because he was friends with the union steward. That was 3 years ago. The workers are still working for the same hourly rate this year. How's that for being fair?
I was a member of the Teamster's. When we went on strike for better wages back in the ྂs, he company threatened to move out.. We also wanted (women) equal pay for equal work because we did the same work the men did, but got paid $.25 an hour less. They moved and 100 jobs were lost. So, you see, companies still have the upper hand, not unions. They only want your money anymore. They really don't care about the workers.
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