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Iraq: Insurgents infiltrate police

Posted By: Democrat on 2005-09-21
In Reply to:

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Insurgents have infiltrated Iraq's security forces, a senior Iraqi official said, as the fallout continued over British forces' use of armed vehicles to smash their way into a police station to rescue two undercover soldiers.


The British government said it would not pull troops out of Iraq after the fury over the controversial rescue of two special forces soldiers arrested in Basra and allegedly handed over to local militia.


Two Iraqis died in the violence, Reuters reported.


Iraq's National Security Adviser, Dr Mouwafak al-Rubaie, said he did not know how far security forces had been undermined by insurgents.


He told the BBC: Our Iraqi security forces in general, police in particular, in many parts of Iraq, I have to admit, have been penetrated by some of the insurgents, some of the terrorists as well.


I can't deny this. We are putting in place a very scrupulous, very meticulous vetting procedure in the process of recruiting a new batch of police and Iraqi army, which will, if you like, clean our security forces as well as stop any penetration in future from the insurgents and terrorists.


Al-Rubaie added: I can't give you a percentage of the extent of the penetration, but I have to admit that the Iraqi security forces are penetrated, to what extent I don't know.


Meanwhile U.S. officials revealed that nine Americans, including five soldiers, were killed by bombs in Iraq during Monday and Tuesday.


Four troops, assigned to the 2nd Marine Division, were killed Monday in Ramadi, the U.S. military said. The deaths brought to 1,904 the number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq. (Full story)


In Basra Wednesday the Iraqi Ministry of the Interior said it was looking into what led to UK armored fighting vehicles bulldozing the wall of a Basra police station jail in a bid to free the special forces soldiers.


Inside, troops discovered that the two men had been handed over to the militia by Iraqi police and freed them.


The men's capture Monday came just a day after British forces in Basra arrested two leading members of the outlawed Mahdi Army which is loyal to firebrand cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and is widely believed to have heavily infiltrated the local Iraqi police, the UK's Press Association reported.


The two arrested men from the Mahdi Army were the group's Basra area commander, Sheikh Ahmad Majid al-Fartusi, and his aide Sajjat al-Basri, PA said.


According to PA, the two British men detained by police were members of the Special Air Service and appeared to have been quickly handed over to militiamen by police.


The mission to rescue them, which was condemned by many Iraqis, was launched amid fears they could face summary execution, PA said.


One Iraqi member of parliament said that following the arrest of the SAS men, the Mahdi Army had tried to take them hostage to exchange them for its two leaders.


Four tanks invaded the area. A tank cannon struck a room where a policeman was praying, policeman Abbas Hassan told Reuters.


Standing next to mangled cars outside the police station and jail that he said were crushed by British military vehicles, he added: This is terrorism. All we had was rifles.


A spokesman for Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari said the British operation against the jail had been a very unfortunate development but his office later released a statement saying there was no crisis in relations with the British.


Iraqi policemen at the jail Tuesday surveyed a mass of rubble, broken plywood and air conditioning units where their perimeter wall and a number of prefabricated structures once stood.


A number of flattened cars appeared to have been run over by British Warrior armored fighting vehicles.


The two special forces soldiers, who were travelling undercover, were arrested after allegedly becoming involved in a firefight with Iraqi police at a checkpoint. Iraqi officials claimed they had shot dead a local policeman and wounded at least one other.


The British soldiers are believed to have feared the men were really insurgents dressed in police uniforms, PA said.


British Defence Secretary John Reid defended the subsequent action by British troops against the Jamiat police station jail, saying it was absolutely right.


We do not have designs to stay (in Iraq) as an occupying imperial power. Nor are we going to cut and run because of terrorists, Reid was quoted as saying by the Daily Telegraph newspaper.


The paper said that Reid and British defense chiefs would meet Iraqi PM al-Jaafari Wednesday in London to discuss security issues.


In dramatic scenes outside the jail Monday, British troops were confronted by an angry mob, hundreds strong, throwing stones and petrol bombs and several soldiers suffered minor injuries.


After they discovered the two SAS men were not in the jail, Iraqi police were confronted with a 30mm cannon and revealed they had been given to the militia.


Brigadier John Lorimer, commanding officer of 12 Mechanised Brigade in Basra, said: We will be following up with the authorities in Basra why the soldiers were not immediately handed over to the multinational forces as Iraqi law shows that they should have been.


It is of deep concern that British soldiers held by the police should then end up being held by militia, he added.




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Damage from insurgents is minimal?????
nm
On lookout for insurgents, Marines yearn for home - see article.

On lookout for insurgents, Marines yearn for home



Anna Badkhen, Chronicle Staff Writer


Friday, September 30, 2005


 








Marines Lance Chronicle






Outside Sada, Iraq -- As the crimson sun rolled behind the Taraq an-Naja Mountains, a group of U.S. Marines scraped their shovels across the infertile, rocky soil of western Iraq, trying to set their mortar launchers deeper into the dust.

In the Euphrates River valley before them twinkled the white and yellow lights of Sada and Karabila -- key Iraqi towns near the border with Syria controlled by fighters loyal to insurgency leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Marines from the 1st Mobile Assault Platoon, Weapons Company, 3rd Battalion, 6th Marine Regiment camped out Thursday on a moonless night in the desiccated expanse overlooking the towns, setting up mortar firing positions and keeping an eye for any insurgent movement inside the settlements.

As they set up their mortars, the Marines discarded the metal bindings of 81mm ammo cases, leaving the long metal strips on the ground like some strange petrified seaweed mysteriously beached onto the Iraqi desert. On the bottom of a dry riverbed, salt reflected the receding light. A lightning flash, an early sign of fall, lit up the horizon over Sada, and a thunderclap followed.

Then darkness enveloped the encampment, and all became smells and sounds.

A Marine laughed in the distance. Another one, closer, lit a cigarette, which glowed orange in the dark. Dogs barked in Sada, and a donkey screamed. A humvee smelled of diesel fuel. A muezzin started a solemn call for the evening prayer. Somewhere, a car sped down a road. From time to time, helicopters roared overhead. Marines whispered loudly over the racket of rotors.

Cool wind carried noises across the shadowy desert, and Marines listened and sniffed in the darkness.

Night is different, said Gunnery Sgt. Derrick Link, 32, as he listened to the static on the humvee radio, a lifeline for his platoon to battalion commanders. You rely on different senses in the night. Your hearing instead of your sight. Everything sounds a lot closer than it is.

Night is also a time to contemplate and reminisce. The Marines talked about home.

Navy medic Michael Larson, 30, talked about 19th century Russian writers (I love Gogol!) and food.

I used to make focaccia bread, with olives and Parmesan cheese, he said. I'd make pasta Alfredo. I love to cook. Make the whole course.

When I go home, it will be, like, my girlfriend, food and my daughter, these three, nothing else.

Pfc. Dale Fellows, 19, talked about his girlfriend, too. She was a year ahead of him in high school in upstate New York, and now she goes to Northeastern University in Boston. She is an intern at the Boston Globe.

Link talked about his 9-year-old daughter, Samantha, who started cheerleading classes this year.

Stephen Thomson, 30, talked about his dream to go to medical school to become a radiologist.

They work in teams, and they really know their anatomy, and I'm very interested in anatomy and physiology, he explained.

At 9 p.m., desert wind kicked up dust and carried it across the encampment. The temperature dropped from the daytime's 95 degrees to 62 in a matter of minutes. Marines materialized out of the opaque darkness, stopping by Link's truck to chat, rest and smoke. Some moved on, disappearing in the blowing sand; others stayed to seek the comfort of companionship.

They rarely attack in the dark, Lance Cpl. Jared Treadway, 22, consoled himself, his shoulder-mounted launcher leaning against Link's humvee.

Link disagreed.

Last time we stayed overnight, last week, the first night we got hit pretty bad, he said, standing near his humvee, which was parked facing the lights of Sada.

But this time the troops were luckier. An orange trace of a lone mortar round arched out of Sada at about 5:30 a.m., injuring no one.

Maybe they are just waiting it out; maybe they're feeling there's a big fight coming, they just don't know when, Link said. That's what I would have done.

At 1 a.m., the Marines start digging foxholes next to their humvees.

Earlier in the evening, when their convoy crept through the desert, the Marines had watched the tracks that crisscrossed the desert: humvee tire tracks; small tracks, from gerbils or mice; and larger ones, from foxes or stray dogs. The ones to watch out for were human tracks -- possible signs that someone had laid a roadside bomb in the fine, ankle-deep dust.

But where they finally made camp, the dirt was packed hard and strewn with small rocks, making the wasteland look like the surface of the moon.

Next to the passenger door of his humvee, Link drew a rectangular shape on the ground with the tip of his shovel, and forcefully stabbed the ground. The shovel went in less than one inch.

F -- ing not good, he muttered. He took off his Kevlar helmet and his body armor. This ground is hard as a f -- ing rock. There's no f -- ing way.

But he continued to dig, as did the troops around him. For several minutes, the air filled with the sound of metal scraping against rock.

At one point, Thomson stepped away from the 3-inch-deep hole he had managed to gouge in the ground, contemplating his work.

It's like digging a grave, he says. I'll lay in my little grave, I'll put my sleeping bag on top of me, and I'll be warm. I've found out that the deeper you dig, the warmer it gets.

Last time we were out, he continued, the first day, I dug like a champion. The second day, I didn't dig deep enough, and I was cold.

He paused, then smiled.

I talk about digging as though I'd been digging graves all my life, he said, shaking his head.

Soon, everyone except for the Marines pulling guard duty was lying in the foxholes they had managed to dig. It became so quiet that the ticking of Link's wristwatch filled the air.

Then there were steps.

A Marine carrying a backpack walked past Link's humvee, looking lost.

I'm just freaking -- oh yeah, he said, remembering something, and walked away.

Link stretched out in his foxhole and fell asleep. Two hours later, the muezzin's call for prayer once again filled the dark predawn air.

Wake up, wake up, prayer is better than sleep, the muezzin called in melodious Arabic.

The Marines' night in the desert was over.

E-mail Anna Badkhen at abadkhen@sfchronicle.com.


And that statement is ridiculous, Iran and Iraq enemies, remember the Iran-Iraq war? Iraq would jus
nm
Bush didn't destroy Iraq. He helped to liberate Iraq.
m
One of the police chiefs
of one of the parishes in LA said that civilian water management people and civilian engineers etc. were being recruited to come there because the National Guard was overwhelmed in size and in capability. He said some had just come for 2 or 3 missions in Iraq or Afghanistan and were exhausted. I'm sorry I did not get his name. I will be more vigilant next time so if you want to tell someone they are alledging something that is untrue you'll get the right person.  I's just the messenger. Since I am not there I have no idea how many National Guard are there, on call, whatever, but I still believe they are needed here more than there.
The US is becoming a police state.sm
It is not full-fledged yet, but 95% there. There is a rush to incarcerate (1 in 136 Americans are in jails and prisons). National ID card by 2010, RFID chips, face scanners installed at high schools, those who disagree with government are called homegrown terrorists (another false flag) or traitors. It is very well known that both Bush presidents support the one world government (NWO). The USA no longer resembles the Constitutional Republic it is supposed to be. Land of the free is an illusion.
We are not world police
So Saddam was a bad person..so what..that means we are supposed to sacrifice our hard earned taxes to pay for a war in Iraq?  That means we are supposed to sacrifice our brave military to invade a nonthreatening country?  There are many places in this old tired world where people are being brutalized..It is not our responsibility to be the world police, it is not our place to save the world from itself.  If Iraq was a threat to America, that would have been a different story.   This invasion and control of a Middle Eastern country was thought up in the early 1990s by Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz.  On the other hand, we are no better than Saddam now..We have killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis, destroyed an ancient country, we cant even give them full time electricity or fresh water or safe secure homes and jobs.  The war was wrong, the situation in Iraq is worse than when Saddam ruled.  Iraq was better off with Saddam in power.  However, keep trying to justify the war..It provides me a chuckle daily when I see the republican spinmeisters come up with a different reason for invasion almost daily. Bush says Iraq will be a comma in the history books..I disagree, Bush will be looked upon as a warmonger who got it so wrong, a failed presidency
Not our job to police the world...
Clinton - Kosovo. Clinton - Somalia. People died there too. If we had stayed in Somalia and nipped AL Qaeda in the bud there...if Clinton had accepted bin Laden from the Sudan...if, if, if. Have you read the Iraq Liberation bill? The idea for invading Iraq to topple saddam was born during Clinton's term...Bush did not invent it. All the same people who protest it now voted it into law. How would you expect anyone to take you seriously? It is never the liberal's fault. That is the one thread that remains true.

Yes, it is a matter of CHOICE. Why, though, is it only YOUR choice?

You danced around it, but it is very true...because there were some botched abortions in the 40's and 50's, we now have abortion on demand, our own genocide to the tune of 1.2 million a year, and somehow this is acceptable to you in the name of CHOICE. TO some of us, it isn't. You get choice, we don't. You need to change the name of your party, because it has little to do with democracy. If abortion was put to a vote of the people it would fail. Precisely why your party will not allow that to happen.

Because of this war we have ignited the fires of extremists and terrorists? Where were you for the first world trade center bombing? Where were you for Khobar Towers...the USS Cole, the african embassies? Somalia when your soliders bodies were dragged through the streets? They have been ignited for years, but were ignored for 8 of those years by Bill Clinton!

You enable abortion in the name of choice...you advocate it. If it went to ballot, you would vote for it. That is advocating it, no matter how you try to parse words.

Why is it easier to get incensed about war than about abortion? Do you think those infants want to be killed? Do they not have a right to life? Where is their choice?
Have you ever lived in police state?

Because if you had you'd definitely be able to see the VAST difference between a police state and the American state.


Also, your one-world government theory about the Bush's doesn't sync with your view that Bush is alienating the rest of the world, but I guess you think because Bush wants democracy for the world he somehow is planning to take over the world.


Wow, you are very steeped in conspiracy theory I'll give you that.


Why the spelling police have shown up! sm
I make typos all the time and so does everyone else. 
Call off the typo police.
nm
spoken by the grammar police.
xx
Your point? Are you the spell police? nm
.
Oh no...the swearing police are back.
.
And who appointed you the "Posting Police?" sm
Everybody is entitled to an opinion just as you are. You should be able to get a pretty good idea of what the posts will say from the subject line. If you are so thin-skinned that you have to take offense at somebody elses posting, then either leave the board and go elsewhere or just don't open the thread. Easy as that.
Humor police in the house....(sm)

The intent of the post was not to compare an embryo to a turkey, but rather simply a joke saying that she would take up one cause but not the other.  If you read the posts below you might understand the joke.


However, since you mentioned it, I'm sure I could make that comparrison.  Our ideas of when life begins are obviously not the same.


 


Police Memorial Week
Still another example of a President to be ashamed of. He is the First President to show such disrespect!
 
Hello everyone,
  
May 10-16 was Police Memorial Week.   It is a week to honor those who have made the ultimate sacrifice while serving as a law enforcement officer in the United States
.  The week is filled with various events to honor fallen police officers and their families.To provide you with Just a little background,  May 15 was established by President John Kennedy as "Peace Officers Memorial Day" and the calendar week of May 15 is known as "Police Week" according to presidential proclamation 537. 
 
     http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=24099
 
The point of this email is to inform you of something I believe everyone should be aware of. President Barrack Obama did not attend this event. This may seem insignificant, but every year for at the past 21 years the president, regardless of political affiliation, has given a speech on May 15 on the steps of the
U.S. capitol to the family members of fallen hero's.

I am sure the president has more pressing issues to focus on than attending a ceremony for the widows, parents, and children of fallen police officers. It is understandable he may have needed to miss the ceremony for a more urgent matter and I say that with all seriousness. But, at the time of the ceremony where do you think Barrack Obama was? He was giving a tour of the White House to the 2008 world series champion Philadelphia Phillie's. I know the Phillie's are important and all, but the man could not take 30 minutes out of his day to take a short car ride 10 minutes down Pennsylvania Ave. to the Capitol, give a 10 minute speech and then drive back to the Whitehouse?
 
This is not a political issue and has nothing to do with being a democrat, republican, green party, independent, or whatever other political affiliation you may have chosen. This is about honoring fallen officers and paying your respects. It is obvious we know where Barrack Obama stands when it comes to supporting your local, state, and federal law enforcement officers.
 
I feel everyone should know what occurred on
May 15, 2009. You will probably not hear this in the mainstream media so I would encourage you to share this with anyone and everyone you want. 

Police Memorial Week
Still another example of a President to be ashamed of. He is the First President to show such disrespect!
 
Hello everyone,
  
May 10-16 was Police Memorial Week.   It is a week to honor those who have made the ultimate sacrifice while serving as a law enforcement officer in the United States
.  The week is filled with various events to honor fallen police officers and their families.To provide you with Just a little background,  May 15 was established by President John Kennedy as "Peace Officers Memorial Day" and the calendar week of May 15 is known as "Police Week" according to presidential proclamation 537. 
 
     http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=24099
 
The point of this email is to inform you of something I believe everyone should be aware of. President Barrack Obama did not attend this event. This may seem insignificant, but every year for at the past 21 years the president, regardless of political affiliation, has given a speech on May 15 on the steps of the
U.S. capitol to the family members of fallen hero's.

I am sure the president has more pressing issues to focus on than attending a ceremony for the widows, parents, and children of fallen police officers. It is understandable he may have needed to miss the ceremony for a more urgent matter and I say that with all seriousness. But, at the time of the ceremony where do you think Barrack Obama was? He was giving a tour of the White House to the 2008 world series champion Philadelphia Phillie's. I know the Phillie's are important and all, but the man could not take 30 minutes out of his day to take a short car ride 10 minutes down Pennsylvania Ave. to the Capitol, give a 10 minute speech and then drive back to the Whitehouse?
 
This is not a political issue and has nothing to do with being a democrat, republican, green party, independent, or whatever other political affiliation you may have chosen. This is about honoring fallen officers and paying your respects. It is obvious we know where Barrack Obama stands when it comes to supporting your local, state, and federal law enforcement officers.
 
I feel everyone should know what occurred on
May 15, 2009. You will probably not hear this in the mainstream media so I would encourage you to share this with anyone and everyone you want. 

Aha! SPELLING POLICE starts again!
This is a sign that you feel in the weaker position. It was a TYPO, o.k.!

Everone who starts with grammar and spelling police, insults and bashing admits that he has been cornered and his weakness shows.

Playing grammar- and spelling-police is NOT tolerated on this Forum, read the rules of this forum!

Got it!


Chertoff says bird flu = police state.
It may not be foreign terrorists you have to fear at your door! - This week Chertoff announced that in the event of a widespread bird flu epidemic here it would not be the medical authorities or health departments who will be running the show - the Department of Homeland Security intends to take over and make our medical and quarantine decisions for us.

Apparently with the migrations of the world's birds about to begin, all the experts are saying that this bird flu could rapidly spread across the world and become a really serious threat.

What has the Bush Admin. done to prepare? They bought themselves 100,000 doses of Tamiflu. You, on the other hand, can wing it. There's no more left. Let's see, 100,000 doses ought to just about make sure his haves and have-more base will have plenty to go around.

Bush supporters in la la land will have no trouble believing those doses are meant for babies and the elderly, and of course somehow for themselves. For the rest of us, the word is: Garlic, goldenseal and echinacea, and stop filling the bird baths.
You need some serious education on fascist police states
if you are referring to the U.S. Now, parts of France on the other hand has had to become a police state at times due to the riots against almighty socialism. Irony is a fun thing to watch play out sometimes and also how people think the grass is greener anywhere but where they are.
ROFL. Enter the typo police....
at least you found a different subject to attack on. Still snide, but nevertheless...attack, attack, attack. I look forward to your report on all the other posts and then posting our QA scores. Hop to it! LOL. geezzzzz.
St. Paul Police Protest the Press

Be careful of your constitutional rights - they are rapidly disappearing.


http://www.truthout.org/article/st-pauls-police-protest-press


hope there are no spelling police today...
good thing I am not running for president, huh? But then, hmmm, maybe I could too. Seems like just anybody these days can do it.
Who made you the spell police? - see message
You don't have anything to say cos you know she's right so you come back with a "you spelled a word wrong"?????

We've been told over and over and over....leave your QAing out of this board.
Spelling police not allowed on this board.
.
Michigan Police Officer's Take on Obama...
This was forwarded to me by a boyhood friend who is a retired cop.

Please pass this along to everyone that you have on your e-mail list because this is just the beginning if this arrogant, egotistical, super liberal, president wannabe gets into office....

To all,

I have read all of the emails from not only some of the MTOA board members, but from other Law Enforcement & Military personnel about Barack Obama's rudeness and what seems to be disgust for basically anyone in uniform. Well, it's my turn to add to the list of emailers and here it is:

So members of the Calhoun County Sheriff's Department, Michigan State Police, (me included) and other local agencies inside Calhoun County are working with Secret Service in the security of Mr. Obama. Mr. Obama's bus arrives in Battle Creek and pulls into the stadium area. Before Mr. Obama exits the bus, he has the Secret Service get off and tell all Law Enforcement personnel in uniform that they now have to stand behind the bus so Mr. Obama is not seen with anyone in a Law Enforcement uniform before he gets off or while in the public view. So, everyone from Michigan State Police, Sheriff's Departments and other agencies look at each other for a brief second, go and stand behind the bus out of sight so Mr. Obama does not have to see, or been seen with, what to him is 'undesirables' since he refuses to been seen or even acknowledge Military or Law Enforcement personnel in uniform. And he wants to be our commander-in-chief!


At a time of war and terrorism in our world, this presidential candidate who is being protected by various branches of the military & law enforcement at the tax payers expense, refuses to acknowledge, be seen with, have in his photographed background, any type of Military or Law Enforcement in uniform.

But this is not in the headlines or in the news or on TV. The TV news doesn't show us marching around behind the bus. In the future, look and see if you can see a single soldier or police officer in uniform when you see Obama. Why? I wonder what the story or media frenzy would be if it was Muslims, blacks, whites, Jews, or any other race, gender, religion, and/or occupation, that Mr. Obama refused to be seen with or have around him.

Why would I make this up? Everyone in Law Enforcement knows we have traditionally had more funding under Democrats.

Just food for thought leading up to November 4th.

Jason Kern
Michigan Tactical Officer's Association
Michigan State Police

Executive Board Member

Befoire you sic the typo police on me, make that
x
Um, excuse me, NO spelling police here - read the
nm
They also tried to call police on the news reporter that
was there. Stated  he wasn't allowed to be there. The reporter checked with their lawyer and he's allowed to be 10 feet away, but although he was 10 feet away, the Black Panther still tried to get rid of him. The BP also stated there was no BP there with a night stick. Yet I think the reporter saw him for himself.
Are you okay with police shooting a man who's about to kill his wife?
I'm sure you are, unless you're really as nutz as I think you are.

So...'Splain the difference to me, Lucy! The justification is precisely the same regarding a terrorist who's planning to kill thousands - except MORE SO.

You pathetic boob.
Capitol Police say they *screwed up* when arresting Sheehan









Sure they did.  Some lowly rogue Capitol cop decided on his own to arrest Cindy Sheehan. 

 

Just like the lowly rogue soldiers in Iraq who have been arrested and convicted and punished because one of them had the bright idea that they should torture prisoners.  None of these people could possibly have gotten orders from the Oval Office, right?  Of course not.  Bush hates torture, right?  LOL! 

 

Sometimes the lies are so transparent and ridiculous, all I can do is laugh. 

 





  MSNBC.com

NBC: Charges against Sheehan to be dropped
Antiwar mom removed from State of the Union for wearing protest shirt


NBC News and news services

Updated: 5:42 p.m. ET Feb. 1, 2006



WASHINGTON - Charges against antiwar protester Cindy Sheehan, who was arrested after an incident involving a T-shirt she wore to the State of the Union address, will be dropped, officials told NBC News Wednesday.


U.S. Capitol Police took Sheehan away in handcuffs and charged her with unlawful conduct, a misdemeanor, when she showed up to President Bush’s address Tuesday night wearing a shirt that read, “2245 Dead. How many more?” — a reference to the number of soldiers killed in Iraq.


But Capitol Police will ask the U.S. attorney's office to drop the charges, NBC News’ Mike Viqueira reported Wednesday.


“We screwed up,” a top Capitol Police official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.


He said Sheehan didn't violate any rules or laws.


Sheehan, whose son Casey died in Iraq, was not the only one ejected from the House gallery. The wife of a powerful Republican congressman was also asked to leave, but she was not arrested.


Beverly Young, wife of Rep. C.W. Bill Young of Florida — chairman of the House Defense Appropriations subcommittee — was removed from the gallery because she was wearing a T-shirt that read, “Support the Troops — Defending Our Freedom.”


The Capitol Police official said officers never should have approached Young.


Criticism from Rep. Young
Holding up the shirt his wife wore, Rep. Young said on the House floor Wednesday morning: “Because she had on a shirt that someone didn’t like that said support our troops, she was kicked out of this gallery.”


“Shame, shame,” he scolded.


Beverly Young was sitting about six rows from first lady Laura Bush and was asked to leave. She argued with police in the hallway outside the House chamber.


“They said I was protesting,” she told the St. Petersburg Times. “I said, ‘Read my shirt, it is not a protest.’ They said, ‘We consider that a protest.’ I said, ‘Then you are an idiot.”’


They told her she was being treated the same as Sheehan, who was ejected before the speech. Sheehan wrote in her blog Wednesday that she intended to file a First Amendment lawsuit.


She did not issue an immediate response to the charges being dropped.


“I don’t want to live in a country that prohibits any person, whether he/she has paid the ultimate price for that country, from wearing, saying, writing, or telephoning any negative statements about the government,” Sheehan wrote in her blog.


Sheehan was invited as a guest of Rep. Lynn Woolsey, D-Calif. She later was released on her own recognizance.


Told she could not wear shirt?
Capitol Police Sgt. Kimberly Schneider said police warned Sheehan that such displays were not allowed in the House chamber, but Sheehan did not respond, she said.


Sheehan, however, told a different story in her blog.


“I was never told that I couldn’t wear that shirt into the Congress,” Sheehan wrote. “I was never asked to take it off or zip my jacket back up. If I had been asked to do any of those things, ... I would have, and written about the suppression of my freedom of speech later.”


She said she felt uncomfortable about attending the speech.


“I knew George Bush would say things that would hurt me and anger me and I knew that I couldn’t disrupt the address because Lynn had given me the ticket,” Sheehan wrote. “I didn’t want to be disruptive out of respect for her.”


She said she had one arm out of her coat when an officer yelled, “Protester.”


“He then ran over to me, hauled me out of my seat and roughly (with my hands behind my back) shoved me up the stairs,” she wrote in her blog. She was then cuffed and driven to police headquarters a few blocks away.


Sheehan was arrested in September with about 300 other anti-war activists in front of the White House after a weekend of protests against the war in Iraq. In August, she spent 26 days camped near Bush’s ranch in Crawford, Texas, where he was spending a working vacation.


The Associated Press and NBC News contributed to this report.




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Who died and made you the "free speech" police? sm
Who cares what you think of Sam's posts. You are free to read or not read. That is what debate is all about. And I use that term loosely in regards to some of posters on this board. Most of the posters have legitimate points of view. If you are that upset over what she posts, then feel free to disregard what she puts. You should be able to figure out what the message is about by reading what is under the thread and not having to open the thread.

If you don't agree with our consitutional right to freedom of speech, then you need to rethink your priorities. Nobody will ever agree with anybody else 100% on this board and in real life, and I wouldn't expect them to. That is what makes our world go around.

Don't like the posts?? Don't read or go to another board. I agree with Sam.
ROFL...don't make me call the spelling bee police....nm

It is all about timing and the fact that there was a pet chimp shot by the police the other day.
Give it a rest.
Oops, before the spell police come I meant I feel, not Il fee
Ha HA ha....too funny.
Fascist police state vs. socialism - great choices.nm
z
Civil Liberty Effects - Police State Pizza
http://www.adcritic.com/interactive/view.php?id=5927
Police putting names of activists on terrorist lists. sm
Dissent is patriotic. I wonder how many people are on these lists. It's creepy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/07/AR2008100703245_pf.html
oops - to the spelling police I meant family not famiy (nm)
x
Oh my. Spelled leery wrong. Forgive me O spelling police (nm)
.
YEAH!! You tell it girlfriend. My grammer police are at the door until Monday morning!
nm
She's going to talk to police and possibly make public statment tmrw
Will be interesting. I'm sure we'll know soon enough if this story is true.
whoops, typing too fast and made errors .. be 4 the spelling police get me
s
why are we in iraq?
I think the reasons we are in Iraq were said best at the Downing Street Memo hearing held by Representative Conyers and attended by Joe Wilson, Cindy Sheehan (mother of a son killed in Iraq), Ray McGovern, an ex-CIA analyst and Mr. Bonifaz, attorney.  We are there because of *OIL* - Oil, Israel and Location.  We need to get out of Iraq NOW.  Bush lied to America and the world.  There were no WMD, which most of us enlightened people knew, there was no threat from a country broken down by sanctions we placed on it after the Gulf War.  Bush needs to be impeached..Just my 2 cents, folks..
why are we in Iraq?
BUSH---Bring our boys back home...they don't need to be there to get killed...and every day there are more and
more....lucky Bush had daughters...or maybe he would ha ve the boys home by now..but he got away doing things so, his daughters if they were sons...would too....
LETS START A WAR WITH BUSH
BRING OUR BOYS BACK HOME!!!!
Iraq
Gee, wasnt one of the many reasons Bush and Blair told America and England for invading a soverign country was that it would make us safer??  Doesnt the warmonger in the White House still say that??  Lying once again..It has made us less safe and has caused a few terrorists to grow to thousands around the world that hate us totally and want to destroy us.  Thanks, Bush, you screwed up again. 
Why we're really in Iraq.



Two years before 9/11, candidate Bush was already talking privately about attacking Iraq, according to his former ghost writer


Houston: Two years before the September 11 attacks, presidential candidate George W. Bush was already talking privately about the political benefits of attacking Iraq, according to his former ghost writer, who held many conversations with then-Texas Governor Bush in preparation for a planned autobiography.


“He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999,” said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. “It was on his mind. He said to me: ‘One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.’ And he said, ‘My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.’ He said, ‘If I have a chance to invade….if I had that much capital, I’m not going to waste it. I’m going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I’m going to have a successful presidency.”


Herskowitz said that Bush expressed frustration at a lifetime as an underachiever in the shadow of an accomplished father. In aggressive military action, he saw the opportunity to emerge from his father’s shadow. The moment, Herskowitz said, came in the wake of the September 11 attacks. “Suddenly, he’s at 91 percent in the polls, and he’d barely crawled out of the bunker.”


That President Bush and his advisers had Iraq on their minds long before weapons inspectors had finished their work – and long before alleged Iraqi ties with terrorists became a central rationale for war – has been raised elsewhere, including in a book based on recollections of former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill. However, Herskowitz was in a unique position to hear Bush’s unguarded and unfiltered views on Iraq, war and other matters – well before he became president.


In 1999, Herskowitz struck a deal with the campaign of George W. Bush about a ghost-written autobiography, which was ultimately titled A Charge to Keep : My Journey to the White House, and he and Bush signed a contract in which the two would split the proceeds. The publisher was William Morrow. Herskowitz was given unimpeded access to Bush, and the two met approximately 20 times so Bush could share his thoughts. Herskowitz began working on the book in May, 1999, and says that within two months he had completed and submitted some 10 chapters, with a remaining 4-6 chapters still on his computer. Herskowitz was replaced as Bush’s ghostwriter after Bush’s handlers concluded that the candidate’s views and life experiences were not being cast in a sufficiently positive light.


According to Herskowitz, who has authored more than 30 books, many of them jointly written autobiographies of famous Americans in politics, sports and media (including that of Reagan adviser Michael Deaver), Bush and his advisers were sold on the idea that it was difficult for a president to accomplish an electoral agenda without the record-high approval numbers that accompany successful if modest wars.


The revelations on Bush’s attitude toward Iraq emerged recently during two taped interviews of Herskowitz, which included a discussion of a variety of matters, including his continued closeness with the Bush family, indicated by his subsequent selection to pen an authorized biography of Bush’s grandfather, written and published last year with the assistance and blessing of the Bush family.


Herskowitz also revealed the following:


-In 2003, Bush’s father indicated to him that he disagreed with his son’s invasion of Iraq.


-Bush admitted that he failed to fulfill his Vietnam-era domestic National Guard service obligation, but claimed that he had been “excused.”


-Bush revealed that after he left his Texas National Guard unit in 1972 under murky circumstances, he never piloted a plane again. That casts doubt on the carefully-choreographed moment of Bush emerging in pilot’s garb from a jet on the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln in 2003 to celebrate “Mission Accomplished” in Iraq. The image, instantly telegraphed around the globe, and subsequent hazy White House statements about his capacity in the cockpit, created the impression that a heroic Bush had played a role in landing the craft.


-Bush described his own business ventures as “floundering” before campaign officials insisted on recasting them in a positive light.


Throughout the interviews for this article and in subsequent conversations, Herskowitz indicated he was conflicted over revealing information provided by a family with which he has longtime connections, and by how his candor could comport with the undefined operating principles of the as-told-to genre. Well after the interviews—in which he expressed consternation that Bush’s true views, experience and basic essence had eluded the American people —Herskowitz communicated growing concern about the consequences for himself of the publication of his remarks, and said that he had been under the impression he would not be quoted by name. However, when conversations began, it was made clear to him that the material was intended for publication and attribution. A tape recorder was present and visible at all times.


Several people who know Herskowitz well addressed his character and the veracity of his recollections. “I don’t know anybody that’s ever said a bad word about Mickey,” said Barry Silverman, a well-known Houston executive and civic figure who worked with him on another book project. An informal survey of Texas journalists turned up uniform confidence that Herskowitz’s account as contained in this article could be considered accurate.


One noted Texas journalist who spoke with Herskowitz about the book in 1999 recalls how the author mentioned to him at the time that Bush had revealed things the campaign found embarrassing and did not want in print. He requested anonymity because of the political climate in the state. “I can’t go near this,” he said.


According to Herskowitz, George W. Bush’s beliefs on Iraq were based in part on a notion dating back to the Reagan White House – ascribed in part to now-vice president Dick Cheney, Chairman of the House Republican Policy Committee under Reagan. “Start a small war. Pick a country where there is justification you can jump on, go ahead and invade.”


Bush’s circle of pre-election advisers had a fixation on the political capital that British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher collected from the Falklands War. Said Herskowitz: “They were just absolutely blown away, just enthralled by the scenes of the troops coming back, of the boats, people throwing flowers at [Thatcher] and her getting these standing ovations in Parliament and making these magnificent speeches.”


Republicans, Herskowitz said, felt that Jimmy Carter’s political downfall could be attributed largely to his failure to wage a war. He noted that President Reagan and President Bush’s father himself had (besides the narrowly-focused Gulf War I) successfully waged limited wars against tiny opponents – Grenada and Panama – and gained politically. But there were successful small wars, and then there were quagmires, and apparently George H.W. Bush and his son did not see eye to eye.


“I know [Bush senior] would not admit this now, but he was opposed to it. I asked him if he had talked to W about invading Iraq. “He said, ‘No I haven’t, and I won’t, but Brent [Scowcroft] has.’ Brent would not have talked to him without the old man’s okaying it.” Scowcroft, national security adviser in the elder Bush’s administration, penned a highly publicized warning to George W. Bush about the perils of an invasion.


Herskowitz’s revelations are not the sole indicator of Bush’s pre-election thinking on Iraq. In December 1999, some six months after his talks with Herskowitz, Bush surprised veteran political chroniclers, including the Boston Globe’s David Nyhan, with his blunt pronouncements about Saddam at a six-way New Hampshire primary event that got little notice: “It was a gaffe-free evening for the rookie front-runner, till he was asked about Saddam’s weapons stash,” wrote Nyhan. ‘I’d take ‘em out,’ [Bush] grinned cavalierly, ‘take out the weapons of mass destruction…I’m surprised he’s still there,” said Bush of the despot who remains in power after losing the Gulf War to Bush Jr.’s father…It remains to be seen if that offhand declaration of war was just Texas talk, a sort of locker room braggadocio, or whether it was Bush’s first big clinker. ”


The notion that President Bush held unrealistic or naďve views about the consequences of war was further advanced recently by a Bush supporter, the evangelist Pat Robertson, who revealed that Bush had told him the Iraq invasion would yield no casualties. In addition, in recent days, high-ranking US military officials have complained that the White House did not provide them with adequate resources for the task at hand.


Herskowitz considers himself a friend of the Bush family, and has been a guest at the family vacation home in Kennebunkport. In the late 1960s, Herskowitz, a longtime Houston Chronicle sports columnist designated President Bush’s father, then-Congressman George HW Bush, to replace him as a guest columnist, and the two have remained close since then. (Herskowitz was suspended briefly in April without pay for reusing material from one of his own columns, about legendary UCLA basketball coach John Wooden.)


In 1999, when Herskowitz turned in his chapters for Charge to Keep, Bush’s staff expressed displeasure —often over Herskowitz’s use of language provided by Bush himself. In a chapter on the oil business, Herskowitz included Bush’s own words to describe the Texan’s unprofitable business ventures, writing: “the companies were floundering”. “I got a call from one of the campaign lawyers, he was kind of angry, and he said, ‘You’ve got some wrong information.’ I didn’t bother to say, ‘Well you know where it came from.’ [The lawyer] said, ‘We do not consider that the governor struggled or floundered in the oil business. We consider him a successful oilman who started up at least two new businesses.’ ”


In the end, campaign officials decided not to go with Herskowitz’s account, and, moreover, demanded everything back. “The lawyer called me and said, ‘Delete it. Shred it. Just do it.’ ”


“They took it and [communications director] Karen [Hughes] rewrote it,” he said. A campaign official arrived at his home at seven a.m. on a Monday morning and took his notes and computer files. However, Herskowitz, who is known for his memory of anecdotes from his long history in journalism and book publishing, says he is confident about his recollections.


According to Herskowitz, Bush was reluctant to discuss his time in the Texas Air National Guard – and inconsistent when he did so. Bush, he said, provided conflicting explanations of how he came to bypass a waiting list and obtain a coveted Guard slot as a domestic alternative to being sent to Vietnam. Herskowitz also said that Bush told him that after transferring from his Texas Guard unit two-thirds through his six-year military obligation to work on an Alabama political campaign, he did not attend any Alabama National Guard drills at all, because he was “excused.” This directly contradicts his public statements that he participated in obligatory training with the Alabama National Guard. Bush’s claim to have fulfilled his military duty has been subject to intense scrutiny; he has insisted in the past that he did show up for monthly drills in Alabama – though commanding officers say they never saw him, and no Guardsmen have come forward to accept substantial “rewards” for anyone who can claim to have seen Bush on base.


Herskowitz said he asked Bush if he ever flew a plane again after leaving the Texas Air National Guard in 1972 – which was two years prior to his contractual obligation to fly jets was due to expire. He said Bush told him he never flew any plane – military or civilian – again. That would contradict published accounts in which Bush talks about his days in 1973 working with inner-city children, when he claimed to have taken some of the children up in a plane.


In 2002, three years after he had been pulled off the George W. Bush biography, Herskowitz was asked by Bush’s father to write a book about the current president’s grandfather, Prescott Bush, after getting a message that the senior Bush wanted to see him. “Former President Bush just handed it to me. We were sitting there one day, and I was visiting him there in his office…He said, ‘I wish somebody would do a book about my dad.’ ”


“He said to me, ‘I know this has been a disappointing time for you, but it’s amazing how many times something good will come out of it.’ I passed it on to my agent, he jumped all over it. I asked [Bush senior], ‘Would you support it and would you give me access to the rest of family?’ He said yes.”


That book, Duty, Honor, Country: The Life and Legacy of Prescott Bush, was published in 2003 by Routledge. If anything, the book has been criticized for its over-reliance on the Bush family’s perspective and rosy interpretation of events. Herskowitz himself is considered the ultimate “as-told-to” author, lending credibility to his account of what George W. Bush told him. Herskowitz’s other books run the gamut of public figures, and include the memoirs of Reagan aide Deaver, former Texas Governor and Nixon Treasury Secretary John Connally, newsman Dan Rather, astronaut Walter Cunningham, and baseball greats Mickey Mantle and Nolan Ryan.


After Herskowitz was pulled from the Bush book project, the biographer learned that a scenario was being prepared to explain his departure. “I got a phone call from someone in the Bush campaign, confidentially, saying ‘Watch your back.’ ”


Reporters covering Bush say that when they inquired as to why Herskowitz was no longer on the project, Hughes intimated that Herskowitz had personal habits that interfered with his writing – a claim Herskowitz said is unfounded. Later, the campaign put out the word that Herskowitz had been removed for missing a deadline. Hughes subsequently finished the book herself – it received largely critical reviews for its self-serving qualities and lack of spontaneity or introspection.


So, said Herskowitz, the best material was left on the cutting room floor, including Bush’s true feelings.


“He told me that as a leader, you can never admit to a mistake,” Herskowitz said. “That was one of the keys to being a leader.”


URL: http://www.gnn.tv/articles/article.php?id=761


Iraq.
I wonder if any conservatives have noticed that this adminstration is not allowing "live combat" on TV, like they did when President Bush, Sr. was president and we were whipping butt.  I received horrible, horrible pictures this week, how they have to dig big holes in the sand, to protect their eyes from sand damage, not to mention being shot upon at the same time.  How could anyone come on here and flame J. Carter, a man, not the smartest, but who has built thousands of homes for needy people AT HOME and not worried about foreign policy, which his failed, but my goodness, the current president is doing no better. I have actual war pictures from my nephew, infantry in Iraq, this adminstration does not want the American people to know how brutal this war is - if they did CNN would be permitted to be in there with their cameras, and yet right wingers wave the flag and don't have a clue of the bloodshed - until it is their own and it WILL come to that.  I guarantee you, there will be a drastic change of heart when one of their's dies over there.
Iraq war
I agree, no war. But, look, has anyone really done research on the Muslims and their plan for all of us infidels? Even if we hadn't gone to war, they would still be doing their terrorist thing. Yes, there are some Muslims who are peaceful, but Muhammad was a piece of crap and so are most of the men who belong to that, ah, religion? Whatever, don't think that by not reacting they won't terrorize. That's the mistake some European countries are making. I've lived in Europe and I know what the Muslims are like firsthand. Having said that, we have plenty of our own sh*t right here in the U.S. I still kiss the ground when I return home from other countries! Believe this, there will be no more peace, only government take-over in the name of peace, and we, the people, will lose our freedom.
Iraq better off, LOL
and..we are any better in Iraq now?  We are allowing them to vote for a constitution which is controlled by religious fanatics, aligned with Iran, which takes away rights women had under Saddam..We have allowed the Taliban to come back into Afghanistan and they are now running for office..the opium trade in Afghanistan is thriving, Osama, our **real** enemy is still on the loose..sooo....what did we accomplish?  Nothing.  At least under Saddam, they had security, electricity, jobs, clean bacteria free water, knowing what the future held..the Iraqis have nothing now because of the USA..We are gonna invade and bring democracy to a foreign country..How naive..How stupid..You do not bring democracy into a country by invading it and forcing your beliefs upon it..OMG, idiotic and we are paying a severe price for it now..Frankly, I think the only ones who should be paying a price for this debacle are Bush and his administration..they ought to be tried as war criminals and tarred and feathered..then given to the relatives who lost loved ones in this immoral war and let them do what they want..