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Nope. You're definitely dangerous. I'm askeered of people who

Posted By: MTME on 2005-07-01
In Reply to: Any of you live in the midwest? Just in case you live down the road from me... - Observer....

"take the logical calm approach" when you're irritated "into a frenzy."


How dare you be logical and calm whilst in the midst of a frenzy?


(I'm getting the distinct feeling, however, that it wasn't YOU who was the "frenzied" one posting below.)


Sorry!  I just can't stop laughing at that one!


 




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Nope, she just made me think I really don't like rude people...

In day to day life or on this forum. 


Lila appears to have an ax to grind with her passive-aggressive insults and no real knowledge or insight to share. 


As I said, I don't care for rude people, whether liberal or right-wing or out of the box completely. 


wow, youre out there arent ya?
who are u even talking to????
Nope, we are "king of the world", and instead of taking care of our own people, we'll kick
with Korea, Iran, (but hey, remember when we harbored the Shah of Iran so he could get the best of care when he had cancer?? We were not worried about war atrocities by him back then!!), we are Big Brother, we can have all the nukes we want, you can't. We turn away from the Sudan and Darfur, the abominable atrocities, bloodshed, rape, torture, social cleansing, etc., because they are poor and we do not need anything from them. But boy, if we had some oil interests there, we would be there in a heartbeat! What a social conscience this nation has!
Youre not 'trying to get along', you're trying to
bombard the board with your narrow beliefs. In a word,
U R an
A$$H@LE.
youre babbling nonsense - does
not make any sense.  Move on dot arrgh.
Make sure youre read about today's
Meet the Press with David Gregory. It's embedded in this OP's news story. It's long, but for those who did not watch Meet the Press this morning, please read the whole thing, including Rep. Boehner's interview.
Dangerous............ sm
"If you try to engage them, they go all freakoid and can be dangerous."

Yeah.....I have a keyboard, and I'm not afraid to use it! BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA
This is dangerous misinformation. sm

I think the public, especially those on this board who think that embryonic stem cells are merely going to be retrieved from thrown away embryos, had better do some serious research.  People need to put down the emotional button and pick up the research button here. 



Misleading Missouri
The Show-Me State’s deceptive stem-cell initiative.

By Yuval Levin


This November, voters in Missouri will be asked to consider a ballot initiative on human cloning and embryonic-stem-cell research. The initiative has been the focus of an intense (if lopsided) campaign in the state for months, with millions of dollars in ads calling for passage. But many of the most basic facts about just what the proposal says and aims to do have not fully emerged.

The Kansas City Star this week reports that the initiative’s sponsor, the Coalition for Lifesaving Cures, has spent more than $28 million on the effort. More than 97 percent of the money has come from James and Virginia Stowers, the billionaire founders of American Century mutual funds, who have also founded a research institute in Kansas City that wants to take a leading role in the stem-cell game. $28 million is a lot of money, and would have paid for a lot of stem-cell research. Why spend it on this initiative campaign instead? What exactly is it buying?

The official summary that will appear on the ballot tells voters the initiative’s first purpose is to “ensure Missouri patients have access to any therapies and cures, and allow Missouri researchers to conduct any research, permitted under federal law.” In other words, to take away from state legislators the authority to govern the practices of stem-cell scientists in the state, and to hand that authority to the federal government alone instead. Missouri could not regulate any practice that Congress has not seen fit to regulate.

An Explanation Is Due
The initiative’s advocates have not done much to explain to voters why they should cede this bit of sovereignty, or why even those who support embryo-destructive stem-cell research should think that state legislators would restrict it more than Congress would. Indeed, while the U.S. House of Representatives has voted to ban all human cloning, and the Congress each year passes restrictions on federal funding of research in which human embryos are harmed, no such bills have ever even come up for a vote in the Missouri legislature.

More peculiar still, the actual text of the initiative does not quite match the summary’s assertion that all research permitted nationally would be protected in Missouri. In fact, the initiative bans the creation of human embryos through in vitro fertilization if it is undertaken solely for research purposes, and bans the extraction of cells from embryos older than 14 days. Neither is prohibited under federal law, and the former is a fairly regular practice. Stem-cell researchers, especially in the private sector, produce and destroy embryos solely for research purposes all the time. (Here, on page 22, for instance, is an ad from the Washington Post’s Express commuter paper asking women to provide their eggs for such endeavors.)

More Radical Than the U.N.
The official summary’s next item, and by far its most deceptive, only complicates things further. It tells voters the initiative would “ban human cloning or attempted cloning.” But in fact, the ballot initiative would create a new state constitutional right to human cloning.

Human cloning, sometimes known by its technical name “somatic-cell nuclear transfer” or SCNT, involves creating a new human being that is genetically identical to an existing human being. It could be done by removing the contents of a woman’s egg cell, and filling it with the contents of an adult cell (for instance, a skin cell) taken from the body of a donor. The result would be a developing human embryo with the genetic identity of the donor of the adult cell — an embryo like any other, but with only one genetic parent rather than two. This is how Dolly the sheep was created, and many other mammals since, though no one seems to have mastered the technique in humans just yet.

Once created, this cloned human embryo would be in the same situation as any other embryo produced in the lab, and one of two things could be done with it: It could be implanted in a woman to grow to term and be born, or it could be destroyed so that its stem cells could be removed for research. SCNT therefore means either bringing a cloned child into the world, or creating human embryos solely to destroy them for science. Huge majorities of the public agree that cloned children should not be produced, and even the ballot initiative itself seems to disapprove of creating a human life solely to destroy it for research. Therefore, since creating a cloned embryo by SCNT would allow only for two unethical options, the ethical option is to prohibit the practice altogether, and avoid that impossible choice. President Bush has called for such a ban, and the House of Representatives (though not the Senate) has voted for it. Even the U.N. General Assembly last year adopted a declaration calling on member states to “prohibit all forms of human cloning.”

On their face, the Missouri initiative and the campaign supporting it imply that is what the proposed constitutional amendment would do. But further down, tucked away in its definition section, we find that when it speaks of human cloning the initiative refers only to efforts “to implant in a uterus” the embryo produced by SCNT in an attempt to initiate a pregnancy.

The act of implanting an embryo in a woman’s womb, performed with IVF embryos many times every day, is not what makes human cloning different. What is different is the act of cloning — somatic-cell nuclear transfer — by which the embryo is originally created. Cloning to produce an embryo to be developed to birth and cloning to produce an embryo to be destroyed for research are both human cloning, carried out identically. As James Battey, chair of the NIH Stem Cell Task Force, told a congressional committee in March, “The first step, the cloning step, is the same, but the intended result is different” (emphasis added). But the initiative, by redefining cloning, protects the practice while pretending to prohibit it.

Moreover, the combination of the first and second sections of the initiative would mean that the Missouri constitution would first privilege and protect the creation of cloned human embryos for research (as long as federal law did not prohibit it) and then would mandate the destruction of these embryos.

CLONING ABOVE THE LAW
And that’s not all. In what must rank as the most peculiar section of this very odd proposal, the initiative goes on to state that research using these embryos needs to abide by state and local laws, but only as long as these laws do not “prevent, restrict, obstruct, or discourage any stem cell research or stem cell therapies and cures that are permitted by the provisions of this section,” and do not even “create disincentives for any person to engage in or otherwise associate with such research or therapies and cures.”

This quite simply puts human cloning above the law in Missouri. How far would it go? Do labor laws or the fire code “restrict” cloning research? Do property taxes on the Stowers Institute “discourage” it? Surely income taxes on cloning researchers who might move to Missouri “create a disincentive” to engage in the research, and limits on political contributions by the Institute discourage politicians from associating with it. If inserted in Missouri’s constitution, this amendment would essentially permit cloning researchers in the state to flout any law they found constraining, and permit the Stowers Institute to be a law onto itself. Not a bad deal, and one that may even be worth $28 million to the Institute.

But why should the people of Missouri put up with it? The extravagantly funded campaign to get them to do so has of course avoided mentioning that the initiative creates a constitutional right to human cloning and sets those who clone above the law. It has also neglected to note that human cloning research on any serious scale would require massive numbers of eggs from massive numbers of women, and that extracting those eggs carries serious risks. It even skips any mention of the fact that embryonic stem cells are derived by destroying developing human embryos — whether cloned or otherwise. Instead, the campaign has coined the euphemism “early stem cell research” to avoid the word “embryonic,” and in one television ad tells Missourians that “Early stem cells come from a microscopic group of cells smaller than a period.” Cells from cells, and not an embryo in sight.

Reckless Hype and Overselling
Most of the campaign’s other ads have focused on “cures.” One shows a doctor saying that far from endangering women stem-cell research “could lead to cures for diseases that concern women like ovarian cancer.” Presumably the stem-cell treatment in question is bone marrow transplantation, an adult stem-cell technique widely in use for decades, and one in no way threatened by any legal barriers or related to embryonic stem cells or cloning. Another ad shows a pediatrician saying stem cells could help his patients, but offering no details. Another shows an Alzheimer’s researcher saying “stem cell research offers the promise of cures” for “so many devastating diseases like Alzheimer’s disease,” but offers no evidence to counter the near consensus in the field that this simply is not so. Many of these disingenuous ads repeat the claim that the initiative would ban human cloning, and none of the ads mention that all stem-cell research is already legal in Missouri and there are no prospects for that changing, or that the referendum would not support any new research.

Many stem-cell scientists are uneasy about this kind of reckless hype and overselling, and are trying to bring coverage of the field down to earth, where the prospects for stem-cell cures for all that ails us are not what they used to be. And many blame non-scientific motives for it all. “It is true that Alzheimer’s is not a promising candidate for stem-cell therapies,” British stem-cell scientist Stephen Minger told the London Times, “but it was not scientists who suggested it was — that was all politics in the US driven by Nancy Reagan.”

Scientists are not so blameless, as the ads in the Show-Me State show, but “politics in the US” does indeed seem to lie at the heart of the Missouri stem-cell story. Beyond putting themselves above the law in Missouri, embryonic-stem-cell research advocates see an opportunity to have a relatively red state endorse embryo-destructive research and human cloning. Unlike California’s 2004 referendum, the Missouri initiative would not direct any new funds to the research or establish any new institution. It would simply allow advocates nationwide to say “even Missouri” supports embryo-destructive research and human cloning, so surely less conservative or less pro-life states should have no objection.

The initiative is a talking point in the larger campaign for human-cloning research. And that larger campaign itself seems increasingly to be a mere political ploy for advantage, rather than the future of medicine, as scientists discover alternatives to cloning that offer more promise both ethically and scientifically. Stem-cell pioneer James Thomson put it this way in an interview last month: 


My personal bet is that so-called therapeutic cloning will not be therapeutically useful in terms of applying those cells for transplantation. It's not that they couldn't be theoretically. I think there's no reason why the procedure won't work. It's more about cost and where the technology's likely to go in the next 10 years or so. I could be wrong because again my colleagues disagree with me on this. But I believe that there ultimately will be other technologies to accomplish the same thing, that don't require a human oocyte. It's the cost of the human oocyte and the ethics of obtaining those oocytes in reasonable numbers.

 

Those “other technologies” that don’t require human eggs or embryos include new cell reprogramming techniques that could turn adult cells into embryonic stem cells without embryos (as teams at Harvard and more recently in Japan have shown), newly discovered germ-line stem cells that might possess the abilities of embryonic cells, and other emerging alternatives. They are still in development, to be sure, but most are further along in human experiments than somatic cell nuclear transfer, and they offer the promise of advancing stem-cell science without human cloning or the destruction of nascent life.

All of which should make the people of Missouri wonder just what they’re being asked to vote for and why. A vote for the state’s ballot initiative would be a vote for a constitutional right to clone, for super-legal status for stem-cell scientists and their employers, for making their state a prop in a political fight that has little to do with Missouri, and for hype and false hope for millions of patients who have been made pawns in that struggle.

A vote against the initiative, meanwhile, would not be a vote against any science, any technique, any ongoing or new research. It would be a vote against hypocrisy and deception, and a vote for keeping legislative options open as the facts change. The Show-Me State should not be duped.

 — Yuval Levin is a fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center and senior editor of the The New Atlantis magazine


O a dangerous man? He freaks me out.

So it could get worse if he is president? Yes, he is very intelligent.  He knows how to manipulate and knows exactly what to say and what people want to hear.  He now wants to "change the WORLD."  He is now trying to "kill people's expectations" of him.  Some of the things he is now saying is like we are going to have to make sacrifices.  What that is? I am afraid to find out.  I don't want America to change the way he wants it to change.  I love the USA, but the O is scary and I am afraid to the point that I was considering (if I can) moving to Canada if he is our new president. 


Yeah he's dangerous all right...
LOL, be careful what you "research" - there might be scintilla of truth to it...

Why don't you name your "sources" showing us how 'dangerous' PRESIDENT ELECT Obama is, so we can see how 'factual' your information is?

You can certainly defend your position, right? So name the sources!
Delusional and extremely dangerous.

I just hope he doesn't get us all killed in the next 3 years.


Thanks very much for posting this. 


They scare me, as well, on a very dangerous level.

Religious Fanatics are FAR more dangerous
You are absolutely right. You can tell that just by reading 99.9% of the posts on this board.
I'm not - NOPE.
X
Nope...sm
The Billy part was childish but he was right on with his anti-war part of the debate.

Bill was the one who threw his nephew in there and tried to make it like he was being denigrated. Phil simply asked him would he let his children go fight in this war and that's when Bill threw a hissy fit about his nephew.

Remember the factor is a NO SPIN ZONE, but Bill was spinning.

Again, I'll give you the point Billy was childish. I guess that's why he said he would not have Phil back on the show.
Nope!

Nope.
Not overestimating your own ability to debate, be witty and intelligent either, unfortunately.  Those insults are really lame.  I mean they really are.  I can't believe people let you get away with that.
Nope, cuz you are always

Nope I'm not

I'm defending a president who has the courage to do what is right.


God bless GWB.  I'm glad he doesn't cower to lilly-livers like you.


Nope. Not a he. nm
nm
Nope.
My opinion is right. Everyone else is wrong.
Nope..........
If ACORN really was interested in oversight, they would have woke up the first time they were investigated and some of their "followers" indicted for crimes committed. They know this is going on because some of their own workers have spoken out and said they were coerced, threatened, etc., by ACORN heads to go out and do this, and ACORN did what they needed to do to make sure there was no one looking through these false registrations.

It's still happening, so you gonna sit there and tell me they STILL don't now it's going on?
Nope
Steal job...steal food......what's the difference.  Apples=apples, oranges=oranges.
Nope, not mad at you, not at all.
not mad at anyone. Just stating a simple fact...I do not trust Obama and I do not respect him simply because he holds the office. He has to earn both. I do not think that any of the democrats here would do any less if McCain had won the election, and I do not think I would be seeing as many unity posts from democrats if McCain had won, which makes me doubt the sincerity.

However, that is not at issue. This is between the President elect and me...as I said, he is the master of his own destiny and my opinion of him going forward will be crafted by him and him alone...not by his followers or detractors.

:-)
Nope
I blame the repeal of Glass-Steagall, the passage of the Gramm-Leach-Biley Act for creating, in large part, the mess we are in today. Without those occurrences, there would not have been 80% of subprime mortages doled out by entities not covered by CRA.

Combine that with the Ponzi scheme of bundling derivatives, and it brings global economy to its knees.
Nope...(sm)
As pointed out I don't know how many times on this board...HE'S NOT THE PRESIDENT YET!  I think that both parties would agree that it would send a very conflicting message were both Bush and Obama to attend.  That is why he's not going.
Nope I can't
The posters on this board say it all. Some are so in love with the O, others worship the ground he walks on. I'm not putting everyone in the same boat, but for the most part if you read the posts it is a clear love/worship affair they have with the O. I won't categorize you in the same boat because you have shown some good thoughts to your posts, but others do not. And yes it is repulsive.

They do say love is blind and you sure can tell on this board.

I do like your saying though "Good grief gertie". :-)
Nope, she's right on. - nm
x
Nope
Not buying it.  I certainly can expect to raise my children as I see fit w/o the government coming into my home and taking over.  I also can certainly expect, as all parents SHOULD, that the government would have certain regulations and laws about public internet access and pornography.  I should NOT have to sit with my 17-year-old son in the library and hold his hand while he is on the computer doing research just because the government has decided that pornography is a God given right and all can see it.  I certainly have a RIGHT to expect my government to provide decent public environments in such places as libraries for the good of our children.  My parenting skills are my responsibility 100% yes I agree.  However, the government has a RESPONSIBILITY to ensure our children are not exposed to this kind of stuff in places such as this.  WHY??   Because there are freaks out there that think that anything is okay and they don't care about our children and as long as we have to live in this world with people like that, we should, as parents, be able to DEPEND on our government to keep our children safe and unexposed to trash like this.  I mean hey, why dont we just get rid of R rated movies for kids under 17 and then why NOT let any kid of any age go into the adult video stores and do whatever they want.  Why not just show porn shows on public TV?  I mean, isnt it censorship NOT to allow a TV channel air whatever they want? 
Nope yourself.
That's how it works, dear.
Nope....that's not what I said...(sm)

I insinuated that that is how we have evolved, into 2 main separate parties.  No, I don't think we have to have 2 parties.  One would be fine so long as decisions that are made are made in the best interest of the people.  That's one thing I like about Obama, his willingness to work with the other side, regardless of whether or not they return the favor.  However, quite frankly, the republican side of the equation is not doing very well.  They have managed to stampede all over the constitution (founding father stuff, btw), take away rights, left us with a deficit when they started with a surplus (while they are calling us the spending party), and completely destroyed any credibility we had worldwide.  What I see in the democratic party IS common sense.


Nope
My mother was a police officer who killed a man, but she didn't have an abortion, so I guess she is okay then right?   What about my dad, grandfather and brother who killed people in the war?  Are they okay too?   Oh and my uncle who is a police officer, he shot and killed people.  Is he okay?   I mean a life is a life, right? 
Nope.
But I still have my McCain/Palin sticker on my car.
Nope.......
The quran has many many many words said against (hate) Christians and Jews by Mohammed.

Quran 8:39 “So fight them (Arabic quran says murder them) until there is no more Fitnah (sanity; 'disbelief' [ of/to/by non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone".

This is speaking of Christians, Jews, and ANYONE who is not Muslim.

Sounds like love doesn't it?

Nope.....LOL.(sm)

The couple that just had the union would also have the same opportunity to practice whatever ceremony that applied to them, and just like the christians, would not be recognized legally without a union.


Look at it like this (and this is probably a bad analogy, but I'll try it anyway):  Everyone has to go to high school (unions), but if they want to go that extra mile to excell they go to college (practice whatever religious beliefs).


And before you guys start, yes, I do know that not everyone goes to high school.


Nope, wrong again! SM
Wrong wrong wrong.  That must make you...wrongle!  A wrong person.  Yassah!
Not true....nope.
x
Nope we aren't

you can believe that but it just ain't so...


Nope. Not happy yet.

Most, if not all, of YOUR posts are incredibly tasteless, in addition to being rude, crude, offensive and frequently untrue.  Yet, NO liberal has accused you of saying they aren't allowed to speak.


Incredibly tasteless = Not permitted to speak IN WHAT WAY?


Are you agreeing that the poster lied in saying that Army Mom was told she wasn't allowed to speak?


No, of course you're not doing that.


Never mind.


 


Nope, afraid we can't

as long as libs wan't to dig up dirt we'll continue throwing the mud you throw from your huge pig stye right back at ya... 



Nope. Mohammed's. nm
/
Nope, just a bad link. sm
It says it is corrupted or something like that.  I didn't pay that much attention.  It won't open though. 
Huckabee...? Nope....
from defintion of facism: Fascist movements usually try to retain some supposedly healthy parts of the nation's existing political and social life, but they place more emphasis on creating a new society. In this way fascism is directly opposed to conservatism—the idea that it is best to avoid dramatic social and political change. Instead, fascist movements set out to create a new type of total culture in which values, politics, art, social norms, and economic activity are all part of a single organic national community.

With all due respect, that sounds much more like where liberals are heading than where conservatives are heading...?
Nope, exactly how I meant it
Pretty self explanatory.
Nope, just honest...get over it!

Nope...but I would like your opinion who...
slur an innocent 16-year-old girl in the name of politics. Personally, I think it reeks, but that is just me.
Nope, thrilled.
Most of the reasons you listed are reasons I would want her in office, including against gun control, against gay marriage, drilling in Alaska, and global warming.  And who in the he!! cares what she named her kids.  That's just petty.  I think if the drive-bys and the dems are in such an uproar about this lady, she must have been the perfect choice.
Nope. Sam is so much smarter than you, which is
nm
Nope. NOTHING I have, in or out of my body,
YOUR 'god' is not necessarily MY God. My God does not happen to be a judgemental control-freak like your 'god' is.
Nope. Quite the opposite.

Nope, just accurate.