Prayers and thoughts to our friends in England

• Prayers and thoughts to our friends in England - Sad day
  • Very sad day, indeed... - i remember

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Many Christians' prayers are said in the quiet of their hearts. 

I don't see your prayer anywhere....

As you read the piece (see link below) in the London Times, substitute "Obama" for Brown, and "Geithner" for "Darling".  Then multiply the billions in pounds by 1.5 to change them to US dollars.  You'll think you're reading about the US plan - and the same catastrophic results, among which the worst are:

1.  A burden on future generations of unparalleled and unprincipled proportions.

2.  An outflow of investment capital to other countries that do not penalize the engines of the economy.

What struck me about Brown's plan was his "soak the rich" approach, which exactly mirrors Obama's - i.e., hitting the "upper 2%" of the "wealthy".  It is more than passing strange to me that this is the precise percentage that Obama proposes - and is equally doubtful.  Given Brown's recent meetings with Obama, no one will ever convince me that he didn't get some tutoring from our superclown...er, I mean, superpresident.

Another thing that's striking is how Brown's proposals are structured so that the real pain will be imposed after the elections in GB next year.  In Obama's case, most of the real pain has also been scheduled for the "out years" - meaning that the public won't begin to feel them until beyond 2011. 

And finally, there is the criticism that Brown's program is based on a lot of rosy "recovery" predictions which are very doubtful.  Exactly the same criticism has been leveled at Obama's program, and in our case the criticism has come not from the opposition party but from within the government itself, i.e. the Office of Management and Budget - which is considered to be a very credible source of information on this sort of thing

Cut and paste, or follow the link at the bottom: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article6168950.ece?Submitted=true

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Unfortunately even though many of us feel we are responsible citizens on this earth, we can't rely on all our neighbors (whether globally or down the block) to also take the same care we do.  Recycling still is random from state to state and lots of folks still choose not to recycle....and therefore over time it has to become a mandate.  Historically that is when laws are needed, when some folks can be responsible but others can't.  It seems an odd riddle that older laws we easily embrace and defend (many which are kind of silly but still on the lawbooks), but yet as the need for new or revised ones crop up we resist and feel our liberty is at risk.

I'm not sure why anyone would balk at conservation.....or even many aspects of environmentalism.  My greatest hope is to leave this earth in as good of shape as possible for my children and grandchildren as well as other's children and grandchildren.  Unfortunately at this point I am hoping we can at least leave a habitable planet in 50 years to our future generations.  It is my true belief that our human discord will very soon become secondary to a global environmental breakdown that is a greater threat than any war has ever been.  Hope I am wrong. 

Although I tend to be Pro-Choice I am very much against abortion.  The whole idea of it is disturbing for me, to say the least.  As far as the death penalty, I think that's a bad idea also, but there are times when I find it hard to feel sympathy for the person being put to death.....I guess I'm human. 

Anyway, I've always wondered why the political belief systems align in such an odd manner, as you have alluded to.  It seems one group is totally against abortion but support the death penalty, support aggression in our foreign policy, support most military actions, and take a negative, hard line on government funding of programs to help the poor, particularly children of the poor.  Alternately, liberals seem to be more peaceful, war-as-a-last-resort, question the ethics of a death penalty, generosity toward those less fortunate by choice or by circumstance, yet also support Pro-Choice.  This has always puzzled me.

I am an agnostic and happy to let the mystery be without pretending and hoping to know the answers to the unknowable.  I find spiritualism most evident in nature and feel that man needs to protect and love his/her planet.  After all, it's all we have.  We need to be as conservation-minded as possible and reign in overpopulation to start with.....

First of all, if your sister has been attending the same church that long and doesn't know what they are preaching about......that is just sad.  As for Rev. Wright, he is all about African American Theology.  Look it up.......that kind of belief is downright scary.  It is all black power and no equality to it.  It is racism and that is that.

Finally, my husband and I use the comment of being thrown under the bus all the time.  The has been around long before the McCain campaign.

hatred comes from within; it is a fear-based, primitive emotion.  No one  can MAKE you hate.  You have to come to that conclusion based on the way you view the world.  Please do not project such things on a good man.

I will try and make this short (ya - right) .  I'm reading the responses below and I am laughing.  Maybe because it's late right now, but I'm reading the responses and trying to picture what you all look like and the shock that must come across your faces with the responses you receive (because I know the face I make when someone throws me a line).  Just is making me giggle right now - like I say it's late. 

Okay, with that said this is my feelings about both sides.  I was anxious to watch the DNC this week and I will be anxious to watch the RNC next week.  I want to hear what everyone has to say on both sides.  I want to watch the movies about JM's life.  I saw BO's film about his life and I enjoyed it.  Barack seems like a very nice person who has worked hard to get where he is and has helped a lot of people (that is normal people like me, my family and friends who have lost jobs, housing etc).  It sounds like he was raised on the same values I was (about caring about other people, helping those you can).  I believe with the community service and past jobs he's had, and the time he has spent in the senate, he does have the experience and the common sense that a Commander in Chief needs to run a country.

At first I was hesitant to even watch tonight because the whole set up I felt was getting out of hand.  People were throwing out the terms rock star, greek, temple, etc, etc.  When I first saw it coming together I thought well that's a bit odd and why didn't they just have it where the convention has been all week, but once it filled in with all the people it didn't look like anything greek or a temple.  I just looked like a stage on a football field filled with lots of people, and he didn't come across as a rock star.  He looked very statesman like, and I could really look up to him as our Commander In Chief.  Listening to him speak I was reminded of how I felt when I watched Ronald Regan talk.  I felt very patriotic.  To me it looked like a lot of people just wanted to hear him speak.  I also didn't watch all the stuff before Barack came out because I can't stand Sheryl Crow, Bruce Springsteen (which for the life of me I wish someone could tell me the words to his songs - I listened to the music they played last night and honestly there was not one single word in his songs I could identify - not an "it" "and" or "but" it was all mumbled together - anyway...that's a whole other story).  And I certainly can't stand Algore so there was no way I was going to listen to anything he had to drone on about, so I waited until the story of Barack's life and that's when I watched.  I did feel that Baracks speech tonight was truly one of the more inspiring speeches I have heard in a long time.  I do believe he has the American people's best interest at heart.  He is a very caring person and has dedicated his life to trying to change Washington so it works for American's.  He has plans that will help get the American economy back on track.  It's not going to be instantly but at least I feel there will be someone who understand that America should not continue into a depression while we continue to send $1.8 billion dollars every week to Iraq when they have a surplus.  I sit back and think about that and am thinking when is the madness going to end.  Iraq has a surplus, we're heading for a depression yet we continue to send money to them.  I believe Barack has a responsible plan to bring our troops home.  The republicans are now coming out saying that the war has been a success and we won.  So if we won we don't need to be there anymore.  So I thought overall Barack's speech was very inspiring and gave me some hope for the future.

Also I listened to the commentaries tonight.  Not all cos I had to work, but I listened to the republican commenters from Fox and two of them said that Baracks speech was inspiring and they were saying that they (DNC) spent a lot of time and effort preparing for tonight and he came through and gave one of the best speeches and really pulled it through.

My mom told me that you will never agree with a candidate on every issue, so you just vote for the one that you agree with most of the issues on.  For me right now I'm seeing that I agree with more of Barack's issues than JM's, but I need to hear more. 

On the economy I believe Barack is more knowlegable.  I don't believe McCain knows what's going on with the economy.  He seems to be stuck on how the economy is great but ask him specific questions and he does not know the answers.  When he does not even know how many homes he owns how do you think he would even know how the economy is doing?  He's not in touch with what we are going through as Americans.  He doesn't know what it's like to worry if your going to be able to put food on your table, or put gas in the car to go to work or even have a job.  As for jobs, he has voted and supported jobs going overseas and those companies getting tax breaks for doing that.

Foreign affairs.  While Barack may not have years and years of experience, Joe Biden does.  I think John McCain isn't very knowlegeable when it comes to foreign affairs (not when he has to constantly be corrected by Lieberman and others close to him).

Heath care - I don't know where John McCain stands on this so I can't comment.

But those are the issues I face everyday.  Am I going to have a job with income to pay my bills and where is the economy going.  And it's time to bring our troops home with dignity and give them whatever help they need.  That's another issue I don't agree with John McCain/Bush about.  I do not believe the republican party is doing as much as they can to help our troops, especially when its time for them to come home where they belong.

I do not feel that America is any safer than we were before 9-11.  I know we have really p.o.'d other countries sticking our nose in where it doesn't belong trying to dictate to them how they should live and trying to force our viewpoints and political system on them making them fashion theirs as we do ours. 

Also, lying in a POW camp for 5 years does not make you qualified to run a country.

2.  The US Department of Energy last time I checked was a page or two before the "funnies."

I was referring to Obama's web site. 

3. Within the same time (or probably less) that we could drill for more oil here in the US (which wouldn't even come close to producing the quantity we use, and would not stand a chance on the market due to taxes that are already in place) we could implement other sources of energy.  In the course of this we would be providing renewable energy, decrease the horrific environmental impact on the environment, and create new jobs. 

Sure, we could grow corn or soybeans or other alternative fuels.  We could go with T. Boone Pickens' windfarm ideas, but these would all take years to implement as well as billions upon billions of dollars to bring to fruition.  Oil fields create jobs in the fields themselves, the refineries that are already in existence and other industries that use petroleum products in their manufacturing process.  Coal already comprises a large portion of the portfolio of electric companies.  Do away with the coal mines and coal plants and you do away with a lot of jobs in already economically depressed areas.  What are we gonna do, move all our West Virginia coal miners out to the mid west to grow soy beans?  You are basically taking jobs away from one sector to provide them to another sector so, in fact, are not creating new jobs but just shuffling them around. 

My point is not so much that we should not investigate other fuel alternatives, but until we have them in place, don't fine the coal plants for producing the energy our country needs and don't stop the drilling to save the caribou (they are amazingly adaptive critters).  Personally, I don't think energy concerns are going to be on anyone's minds in a few short years.  They will have other things to worry about. 

Please take note to the heading and paragraph 3.  Aren't we trying to put people to work? Don't white male construction workers need employment, too?  Please read some of the comments, too. The people that made comments seem to have a handle on the construction job market. I found some of their comments very interesting.

http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2009/01/stimulus-how-to-create-jobs-without.html

I made the comment at the local cafe the other day that this nation was so concerned with another President's sexual dalliance and subsequent lies that we wanted to impeach him.  But Bush and the "Vulcans" and their need for this war and all the "irregularities" in how its been presented and undertaken -- the general American public doesn't seem to notice or care all that much if there have been untruths or lies.  At least that is how it seems.  I certainly hope I am wrong.  In essence, it seems as though we as a nation are more concerned about sex than war and death.

And, geez, I practically wanted to move to Canada when this war started because I was so sick at heart.  I just had an overwhelming feeling that we didn't understand what we were getting into, and believe me, I'm not a Middle East expert.  My other question now is, how can we lend credence to and trust the judgment of this administration when they have shown such grievous lack of judgment with such poor advisors and "experts."  It seems to me, once again, that it doesn't take a genius to realize that "liberating" Iraq was not going to be like liberating France in 1944 (or maybe it was 1945).  I know that the administration was warned by many who know the Middle East that this was a grave mistake at the outset because of the innate political precariousness of Iraq and its warring factions.

As I said, I have been able to figure this out and I am certainly not a huge brain.  Why has it escaped those leading our country who are supposedly the most informed and best equipped to make these kinds of decisions?  And saddest of all, I do hope most of all it is not really about oil/money and power.  The idea of that makes me ill, but more and more it appears that this somehow played a major role.

Would appreciate hearing opinions.....

I don't know why I find certain posters/postings so darn disturbing.  I know in my heart they do NOT represent most right-wingers.  I have two very close friends who are right-wingers and quite a few acquaintances.  These folks in no way resemble the posters I refer to.  I also know they are pretty much a lunatic fringe.  I know I should just ignore them....but I can't sometimes, especially when I see postings that are so grievously factually erroneous (i.e., this country takes care of its poor - which I might add in many ways this country TRIES to help its poor but there is still much to be done).  I just think I could address these factual errors without becoming personally embroiled. 

The up side is that I learn so much from the research I have ended up doing as well reading some of the eloquent and inspiring posts I have seen on this board.  That by itself is worth a lot.

Yesterday I felt my blood pressure rise and felt sick to my stomach for a while.  But at sunset I took my three ill-behaved dogs-of-uncertain-heritage for a walkl in a snowy woods out here in the boonies where I live and my appreciation for the world that l am able live in came back to me....and I mean my own personal space, my mental place as well as geographic world. 

I am interested to hear what the other Democrats on the board think of Barack Obama thus far.  I know Republicans have a right to speak up as well, but I don't expect them to agree with him on much, so I am most interested in hearing what other Democrats think of him.  I have nothing against Hilary (I think she is highly intelligent and could do the job just fine), but I just am so inspired by Barack and think he is just what this country needs.  I think he can bring about positive changes that are long overdue!!  He is an exceptional man.

He gave a powerful, electrifying speech over the weekend in Iowa.  I am posting the link below if anyone wants to check it out and see some of the reasons I think he is so very grand. :)

(The link is also asking for donations, but that's only because it was in an email that I signed up for - I'm not trying to get you to donate, honest!)

Hope the racist crazies did not keep you away from the forum.  Last night in the midst of history in the making and again tonight, while the excitement builds as the moment of the presidential nominee acceptance speech draws near, I find myself thinking of you and remembering the anger and pain you were expressing last week about this time in response to those reprehensible Buchanan posts.  I want to share a few thoughts with you.

I am watching the coverage on CSPAN, minus all the reporter's and network's hidden agendas, spin, drama, bias and play-by-play punditry.  This kind of coverage helps the viewer feel that they have a front-row seat with wings that transports them all around and above the scene, giving them the bird's eye view of all the best this joyous, beautiful, uplifting, spiritual event has to offer as it plays itself out. It is being shared by men, women and children from all walks of life, all classes, varieties of gender, creeds, colors and cultures, one big beautiful mass of humanity, all gathered to witness and celebrate this one single moment, unparalleled in the history of our country, as we watch Barack Obama accept his party's nomination for the highest and most honorable office in the land and be acknowledged worthy to lead our nation. 

For all those who played a part, no matter how small, this is their time to stand up and be proud to have participated, on any and all levels, in the struggle that brought us to this place in time.  It is by the Grace of God we come to know that His blessings are now bestowed upon us.  It is my heartfelt wish that you can take the comfort I take in believing the in the notion that when one is on the "right side of history," as Mr. Clinton so eloquently stated, good things can happen and all things are possible.  Take care of yourself.            

M:

If they don't show progress and default on the loans, then the gov would have a controlling interest because they gave out those loans.  This would lead to restructuring, and probably more of a government run industry.  And yeah, they could mess it up just as bad, but we have to at least try something.

Some thoughts:

Even if they are supported financially during re-education, what would they go into?  Just about every industry across the board is being hit with this financial mess, so their options would be limited. Also, we're talking about millions of people, and not everyone is cut out for higher education, which is a good thing because we actually do need workers in this country.

This also leaves us with an auto industry that would consist of imports, so we would still be oil dependent.

Some of my political views are not the norm here, but that is ok, viva LA difference! I will just explain a couple,

1- I do not understand why anyone, particularly women, would vote for the Republicans- they are sort of like the Chinese Communist Party, or the govt. in 1984. For example, a few years ago, the said Murphy Brown was a terrible influence. Never mind that the character was financially well established, and a mature woman actually making a decision, rather than a teenage whoops! This year at the convention, lots of folks wore buttons talking about how much they support unwed mothers. My feeling is they only support them while pregnant, and don’t care about them once the baby is born. In fact, they scorn them. If a woman works, and something happens to her child, she is viewed as an unfit mother because she should have been home. On the other hand, the whole “welfare mom “was demonized because she just “sat at home making babies rather than working”

In addition why support a party who does not have your best interests at heart? Most people are middle/lower middle/ and lower class… why support the elite few?

2- Roe v. Wade is a very smart ruling, and anyone who really understands constitutional law, would agree. “Roe v. Wade was decided primarily on the Ninth Amendment to the United States Constitution, a part of the Bill of Rights. The Court's decision in this case was that the Ninth Amendment, in stating that "the enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people," protected a person's right to privacy.”
No one has the right to say that their belief should supersede mine. I believe life does not begin at conception, ergo, no one should legislate my body, worry about your own.

3- I believe in gun control. No one needs anything more than a hunting rifle (if that) in their home. Period. No one is keeping the government in check by keeping a gun- it is a load of malarkey. Crime has decreased- not because of guns, but because people were more prosperous. That has ended. We need social programs, and for corporations to be a part of society and not just answer to share holders so that we can all work together to turn things around. That will keep crime down- not everyone owning killing machines.

4- Everyone is entitled to health care. It should be a right, not the privilege of the few. We call ourselves civilized, yet we have people starving or dying from lack of health care right in our midst.

5- I am against the death penalty. I never got the eye for an eye thing. Yes, I have been the victim of a violent crime, but a violent reaction doesn’t undo what happened, it only re-enforces the whole cycle.

My DH and I were talking the other day and we were talking about the criticism of GM.  For one, we are both so sick and tired of hearing people say that GM was stupid for building bigger trucks and SUVs.  Once again....GM built these because that is what consumers wanted. 

Remember back when your parents had a smaller vehicles and we used to cram 5 kids in the back seat.  How many of those kids were in car seats?  How many even had their seat belts on?  Nowadays....you can't do that.  Kids have to be in a booster seat until they are 4 feet 7 inches and all people must wear a seat belt.  Now tell me this.....how many car seats can you fit in a small car?  If you have more than 2 children....you are really pushing it.

I've heard numerous complaints about why GM didn't make more fuel efficient vehicles.  Well....let's discuss this a tad bit shall we.  The government regulates certain safety standards for vehicles.  They go through several crash tests to see which cars are safer.  What does this mean.....this means more reinforcement in the vehicles frame which makes vehicles heavier.  What does the weight do?  Well, the extra material as well as the crash testing causes prices to go up and the extra weight makes the vehicles less fuel efficient. GM made the vehicles it did because at the time....that is what consumers wanted and they also had to meet Government safety standards. 

Compact cars are great for single people or married couples without children, but I'd like to see you take a trip in one of those with three kids in car seats plus all of your luggage, etc. 

Palin said she did not believe in abortion.  When she found she had a late-in-life Down syndrome pregnancy, she did not have an abortion.  When her daughter became pregnant SHE did not abort.  I see no hypocracy there. 

As for letting the boy move in, it may have been to ensure the health and safety of Palin's daughter and grandchild.  You know how at that age you think you cannot live another second without the object of your affection?  Her daughter might have moved out, lived and delivered the child God knows where.  Maybe her daughter even threatened do do this to be with her boyfriend.   

Knowing what political hay would be made of all this, Palin stood by and protected her child.  Not an ideal situation, but maybe preferable to the alternative.  I'm sure Palin would much have preferred her daughter not be knocked up out of wedlock, but presented with a done deed, not sure how most of us would have handled it. I don't see hypocracy there either. 

People we love will often disappoint and/or embarrass us, and we cannot control their actions.  All we can control is how we handle the situations they present us with.  Hypocracy would have been for Palin to slip away for a secret abortion of her Down syndrome baby, or sneak her daughter out of town for the same procedure.  Or send her daughter and the boyfriend off somewhere to live incognito or, try to hide the daughter's pregnancy.