She didn't have to be leading going into the final round to win, obviously!

• Anyone else tired of hearing about Miss USA? - Trigger Happy
  • Ummm....(sm) - Just the big bad
    • The attack on this lady is an obvious political issue.... - it belongs here..... nm
    • In my opinion.... - Trigger Happy
    • You know something? I'll bet even al-Qaeda is laughing that - tsome idiots are calling these methods "torture
      • Here's the problem with that...(sm) - Just the big bad
        • I'm sorry....I must have missed - Trigger Happy
        • HELLO? We don't do what the terrorists do. That's precisely why they're - laughing.
          • Really? (sm) - Just the big bad
            • So, we are no better than terrorists? That answer - is absolutely crazy...nonsense.. THINK!!.nm
              • What is YOUR definition of a terrorist? nm - Just the big bad
                • Definition of terrorism. - TechSupport
                • Question with question:why bother answering JTBB - -who will twist any answer to suit them.nm
                  • The reason for the question...(sm) - Just the big bad
                    • We do not purposely kill, cut off heads, torture. - To say the USA does that is a flat lie...period.nm
                      • Wrong....(sm) - Just the big bad
                        • Wrong! I happen to love my country and its people. - Tough interrogation is NOT torture.nm
                      • Naivety and ignorance abound. - give me a break!!!
                        • Is an insult followed by **abound** all - you know how to say? Boring.
                        • You got that right. Describing supporters of - the CURRENT president. Perfect.nm
            • You conflate about 16 different issues here. If you would - correct this I'll be happy to answer.
              • Can't walk and chew gum? - Too bad for you.
                • That's right. I'm funny that way, wanting to keep - different issues separate.
              • JTBB wrote 7 lines, you say she conflated them into - give me a break!!!
                • He/she passed first lesson - lie. - Bush would have loved this one.
                • You're just a tad bit ummm....CONCRETE, aren't you?!? - Amazing. Do you work with that brain?
                • LOL....at least he/she isn't majoring in math....(sm) - Just the big bad
                  • You're simply pathetic, you know it? Your posts - make "juvenile" look sophisticated.
                  • What the brainiacs don't understand is they - give me a break!!!
                    • LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL - you got that on speed dial or something. - Talk about "brainiac".
                    • Well, I have never felt more unsafe in my country - as I do now with Obama in charge.nm
                      • Buck up!! We got through the Bush years, and how - give me a break!!!
                        • I would take Bush any day over this fake politician. - Friend of terrorists and dictators -a sham.nm
                      • That puts you in the 26% range...(sm) - Just the big bad
                        • Wonder how many who worked at the WTC felt safe on 9/10/01? - TechSupport
                        • Yeah, until the first time we get hit, which is - likely to happen with O in charge.nm
                          • Nah - first time we got hit was under Georgie-Porgie - Remember now?
                            • Actually, 9/11 was NOT the first time we got hit. - TechSupport
    • Hmmm, didn't a lot of the torture start - Sunflower
      • If it was such a right thing to do...(sm) - Just the big bad
        • It apparently worked in stopping attack on LA - Did you know that JTBB? nm
          • Once again, naivete and ignorance abound. - give me a break!!!
            • Who fed you this garbage? Even a DEM was on - talking how prevented LA attack..go read.nm
          • Your friend Obama does not want that part leaked. - only wants CIA/Bush to look bad..sickening.nm
  • Did you see Hilton's remark about - Miss California. It was horrible.
    • You're tired of it so you start a thread? - Maybe she didn't win cuz she's a ditz.
      • Oh come on! She stated she was nervous. - Like you could do any better
      • What are you talking about? - I did not start the thread, triggerhappy up above
  • the gay guy - said
  • Agreed, it was a loaded question... - Zville MT
  • I think it did cost her the crown - Just my 2 cents
    • Actually.... - Trigger Happy
      • She didn't have to be leading going into the final round to win, obviously! - TechSupport
        • Yes, and he said he gave her a ZERO. - This guy is garbage.nm
  • We don't know if the answer cost her the crown. - TechSupport
    • What bugs me the most about this... - TechSupport
      • Why didn't someone ask her how she voted because - it did come up in her state
      • Too bad for her she didn't just answer - Mythbuster
    • It may have cost her this crown........... sm - m
  • Perez Hilton is a troll and bottom feeder..... - MT and worn out
    • I agree with. Hilton should have never asked - a question like that to begin with.
    • I would have lost, too............ sm - m
      • I would have lost also... - TechSupport
        • Better watch out............ sm - m

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Yes, but just because Hitler made a case for exterminating the Jews by calling them socialists, and because Ford may have also hated them.....doesn't mean that in reality the Jews all really were socialists. 

As I said, they were propagandists, or at least Hitler was (and if Ford publicly wrote about or ridiculed the Jews then he would be included) and propagandists pass off LIES as the TRUTH.  So therefore we cannot draw a historically accurate conclusion that Jews are basically socialists.

I think pretty much this debate was McCain's best hope.  His strength, according to most, is foreign policy.  I thought that all O really needed to do was avoid being seen as weak on foreign affairs. He more than lived up to that. The clear frontrunner is O.  This debate did not change that.  The next two pres debates will show O's strengths and Mc weaknesses.  The Sarah/Joe debate is going to be high theatre.  I am so looking forward to that one.

Another point.  I don't get all misty when Mc tells his bracelet/POW stories.  I think they are blatant attempts at pulling emotional strings and I cringe when anyone, anywhere tries to manipulate me.  I am saying he uses stories for his benefit instead of feeling them. So as far as I am concerned they backfire.

I was very impressed with Charlie Gibson.  I am not an ABC news watcher, so I did not know what to expect.  He brought up all the important issues involved in the contradictions between Maverick and Reformer claims including per diem, keeping the money from bridge to nowhere, lobbyists for Alaska, abuse of power in Troopergate, etc. I thought he allowed her to expose her lack of knowledge on foreign affairs.  I thought he, for the most part, keep questioning her on points when she tried to evade questions by throwing out the slogans and talking points. 

The one point that I had not heard before was the fact that the sendoff for the soldiers she staged in Alaska was timed to be on 9/11 for the publicity, and that the soldiers were not in fact going to leave for 2 to 3 more weeks. 

All in all, I thought it was a good introduction of the actual Sarah Palin. When you add the tape of McCain disparaging mayors and short-time governors, it was a definitive package for those who have not yet made up their minds in this election.

his own personal reasons.

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20050620/why_george_went_to_war.php

The Downing Street memos have brought into focus an essential question: on what basis did President George W. Bush decide to invade Iraq? The memos are a government-level confirmation of what has been long believed by so many: that the administration was hell-bent on invading Iraq and was simply looking for justification, valid or not.

Despite such mounting evidence, Bush resolutely maintains total denial. In fact, when a British reporter asked the president recently about the Downing Street documents, Bush painted himself as a reluctant warrior. "Both of us didn't want to use our military," he said, answering for himself and British Prime Minister Blair. "Nobody wants to commit military into combat. It's the last option."

Yet there's evidence that Bush not only deliberately relied on false intelligence to justify an attack, but that he would have willingly used any excuse at all to invade Iraq. And that he was obsessed with the notion well before 9/11—indeed, even before he became president in early 2001.

In interviews I conducted last fall, a well-known journalist, biographer and Bush family friend who worked for a time with Bush on a ghostwritten memoir said that an Iraq war was always on Bush's brain.

"He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999," said author and Houston Chronicle journalist Mickey Herskowitz. "It was on his mind. He said, 'One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.' And he said, 'My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.' He went on, 'If I have a chance to invade…, if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it. I'm going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I'm going to have a successful presidency.'"

Bush apparently accepted a view that Herskowitz, with his long experience of writing books with top Republicans, says was a common sentiment: that no president could be considered truly successful without one military "win" under his belt. Leading Republicans had long been enthralled by the effect of the minuscule Falklands War on British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher's popularity, and ridiculed Democrats such as Jimmy Carter who were reluctant to use American force. Indeed, both Reagan and Bush's father successfully prosecuted limited invasions (Grenada, Panama and the Gulf War) without miring the United States in endless conflicts.

Herskowitz's revelations illuminate Bush's personal motivation for invading Iraq and, more importantly, his general inclination to use war to advance his domestic political ends. Furthermore, they establish that this thinking predated 9/11, predated his election to the presidency and predated his appointment of leading neoconservatives who had their own, separate, more complex geopolitical rationale for supporting an invasion.

Conversations With Bush The Candidate

Herskowitz—a longtime Houston newspaper columnist—has ghostwritten or co-authored autobiographies of a broad spectrum of famous people, including Reagan adviser Michael Deaver, Mickey Mantle, Dan Rather and Nixon cabinet secretary John B. Connally. Bush's 1999 comments to Herskowitz were made over the course of as many as 20 sessions together. Eventually, campaign staffers—expressing concern about things Bush had told the author that were included in the manuscript—pulled the project, and Bush campaign officials came to Herskowitz's house and took his original tapes and notes. Bush communications director Karen Hughes then assumed responsibility for the project, which was published in highly sanitized form as A Charge to Keep.

The revelations about Bush's attitude toward Iraq emerged during two taped sessions I held with Herskowitz. These conversations covered a variety of matters, including the journalist's continued closeness with the Bush family and fondness for Bush Senior—who clearly trusted Herskowitz enough to arrange for him to pen a subsequent authorized biography of Bush's grandfather, written and published in 2003.

I conducted those interviews last fall and published an article based on them during the final heated days of the 2004 campaign. Herskowitz's taped insights were verified to the satisfaction of editors at the Houston Chronicle, yet the story failed to gain broad mainstream coverage, primarily because news organization executives expressed concern about introducing such potent news so close to the election. Editors told me they worried about a huge backlash from the White House and charges of an "October Surprise."

Debating The Timeline For War

But today, as public doubts over the Iraq invasion grow, and with the Downing Street papers adding substance to those doubts, the Herskowitz interviews assume singular importance by providing profound insight into what motivated Bush—personally—in the days and weeks following 9/11. Those interviews introduce us to a George W. Bush, who, until 9/11, had no means for becoming "a great president"—because he had no easy path to war. Once handed the national tragedy of 9/11, Bush realized that the Afghanistan campaign and the covert war against terrorist organizations would not satisfy his ambitions for greatness. Thus, Bush shifted focus from Al Qaeda, perpetrator of the attacks on New York and Washington. Instead, he concentrated on ensuring his place in American history by going after a globally reviled and easily targeted state run by a ruthless dictator.

The Herskowitz interviews add an important dimension to our understanding of this presidency, especially in combination with further evidence that Bush's focus on Iraq was motivated by something other than credible intelligence. In their published accounts of the period between 9/11 and the March 2003 invasion, former White House Counterterrorism Coordinator Richard Clarke and journalist Bob Woodward both describe a president single-mindedly obsessed with Iraq. The first anecdote takes place the day after the World Trade Center collapsed, in the Situation Room of the White House. The witness is Richard Clarke, and the situation is captured in his book, Against All Enemies.

On September 12th, I left the Video Conferencing Center and there, wandering alone around the Situation Room, was the President. He looked like he wanted something to do. He grabbed a few of us and closed the door to the conference room. "Look," he told us, "I know you have a lot to do and all…but I want you, as soon as you can, to go back over everything, everything. See if Saddam did this. See if he's linked in any way…"

I was once again taken aback, incredulous, and it showed. "But, Mr. President, Al Qaeda did this."

"I know, I know, but…see if Saddam was involved. Just look. I want to know any shred…" …

"Look into Iraq, Saddam," the President said testily and left us. Lisa Gordon-Hagerty stared after him with her mouth hanging open.

Similarly, Bob Woodward, in a CBS News 60 Minutes interview about his book, Bush At War, captures a moment, on November 21, 2001, where the president expresses an acute sense of urgency that it is time to secretly plan the war with Iraq. Again, we know there was nothing in the way of credible intelligence to precipitate the president's actions.

Woodward: "President Bush, after a National Security Council meeting, takes Don Rumsfeld aside, collars him physically and takes him into a little cubbyhole room and closes the door and says, 'What have you got in terms of plans for Iraq? What is the status of the war plan? I want you to get on it. I want you to keep it secret.'"

Wallace (voiceover): Woodward says immediately after that, Rumsfeld told Gen. Tommy Franks to develop a war plan to invade Iraq and remove Saddam—and that Rumsfeld gave Franks a blank check.

Woodward: "Rumsfeld and Franks work out a deal essentially where Franks can spend any money he needs. And so he starts building runways and pipelines and doing all the necessary preparations in Kuwait specifically to make war possible."

Bush wanted a war so that he could build the political capital necessary to achieve his domestic agenda and become, in his mind, "a great president." Blair and the members of his cabinet, unaware of the Herskowitz conversations, placed Bush's decision to mount an invasion in or about July of 2002. But for Bush, the question that summer was not whether, it was only how and when. The most important question, why, was left for later.

Eventually, there would be a succession of answers to that question: weapons of mass destruction, links to Al Qaeda, the promotion of democracy, the domino theory of the Middle East. But none of them have been as convincing as the reason George W. Bush gave way back in the summer of 1999.

in AR's post that she was against it.  Instead, she acted as if the topic has no place on this board and shouldn't be discussed... like some kind of dirty little secret.

The *attack the messenger* technique has been used constantly in the last 5 years by the current administration (and his followers) when someone gets too close to the truth.  Don't believe me?  Ask Valerie Plame.

Same old.  Same old. 

But, it IS the RNC, so they are damned either way with socialists oops I mean democRATS like yourself. 

I received a call from an friend who was so upset and said Obama called Palin a pig in lipstick.  I responded, surely no, you must be mistaken.  Obama is running for office of the President of the United States.  Why would he ruin his chances of winning by calling this lady a pig.  That doesn't sound like rational behavior for a presidential candidate.  However, to my surprise I opened several different news sources (both liberal and conservative) and sure enough he did.  I'm thinking why, why in the world would you fall down that path of being so low that you would call Palin a pig saying "you can put lipstick on a pig and it will still be a pig".  If he was trying to make a joke in reference to her joke about the difference between a soccer mom and a pit bull is lipstick, this joke could not have come at a worse time for him.  How in the world is he going to explain that one.

Shame shame Barack Obama.  This has to be one of the lowest comments anyone can make about another candidate. - Not funny!  Why would you go and ruin any chance you had that people may have thought you had a little bit of "class" to you.

I haven't watched MSNBC but am curious as to how they are going to respond.  How can they support someone when this is his opinion of other people.

Talk about low class.  One more reason I will not be voting democrat this election. 

Subject: Bet Ya didn't hear about this on NBC Family with Down Syndrome Child Meets John McCain and Sarah Palin September 9, 2008 ((( BEGIN PHONE TRANSCRIPT WITH RUSH LIMBAUGH ))) RUSH:  Kurt in Pittsburgh, hello, sir.  Nice to have you on the EIB Network, and how about the Steelers defense? CALLER:  How about those Steelers, huh? RUSH:  How about that? CALLER:  Hey, listen, Rush, longtime listener, first-time caller, one of those Bible, family, gun clingers from western Pennsylvania. RUSH:  Thank you. CALLER:  And I wanted to share a story with you.  A week ago last Saturday we went to the Palin-McCain rally in Washington, Pennsylvania, was the day after he announced her, and we have a five-year-old daughter with Down syndrome, and we made a sign that said: "We Love Kids with Down Syndrome."  So when they pulled in their bus, the sign did catch their eye (McCain and Palin and the rest of their family) it caught their eye, we could tell, they gave us a thumbs-up from the bus, so we were all excited just by that -- RUSH:  Wait, wait, wait.  Who gave you the thumbs up, McCain and Palin? CALLER:  McCain, Palin, Cindy McCain, we could see them from the bus. We were in a position where we had eye contact with them -- RUSH:  Oh, cool! CALLER:  My wife was holding our daughter. RUSH:  Very, very, very cool. CALLER:  It was really cool, Rush. I was like, "Wow, that's awesome," because I love Governor Palin and so I thought that's really neat.  So then we moved around as the bus was getting ready to pull out, we kind of positioned ourselves so we could just wave them on and a Secret Service agent came up to us and said, "Hey, can you come with us?"  I was like, "Do we have a choice?" RUSH: (laughing) You shouldn't have worried.  It's not the Clinton administration. CALLER: Right. So we accompanied them up the hill, we went right to the bus, where it was, and Governor Palin, Senator McCain, Cindy, Todd Palin, they're all standing there. We're in this inner circle with just us and them, and the Secret Service agent, and they came right up to us and thanked us for coming out, said they loved our sign, and Governor Palin immediately said, "May I hold your daughter?" and our daughter Chloe, who's five, went right to her, and I have some pictures I'd love to send you maybe when I'm done here, but Governor Palin was hugging Chloe, and then her little daughter brought their baby Trig who has Down syndrome from the bus, he was napping, and Chloe went right over and kissed him on the cheek, and my son Nolan who's nine, he thanked her. RUSH: This is amazing. CALLER: I will send you all the stuff, Senator McCain was talking to my son, and we thanked him for his service, and he asked my son if he wanted to see the bus, and we were hanging out and it was very surreal. I felt like we could have had a pizza and a beer with them, they were so warm. RUSH: You know what? I want to put you on hold. I want Snerdley to give you our super-secret, known-only-to-three-people here, e-mail address. CALLER: I will send you everything, Rush. RUSH: And then could you send us these pictures? Would you mind if we put them on the website? CALLER: I would be honored, and my main thing is they are warm, kind, genuine people, and they represent the best of this country. RUSH:  That's right.  And when you send these pictures, make sure you identify them.  I mean, we'll know Palin and McCain, of course.  Identify yourselves. CALLER:  I will, I will identify everybody in the picture, Rush, and God bless you for being a beacon of hope and truth in this country. RUSH:  Oh, no, no.  It's nothing, it's nothing.  You're doing the Lord's work. CALLER:  Well, we're very blessed and I want people to know what a blessing it is to have a child with Down syndrome. These kids, they're angels. RUSH:  That's the thing.  There's always good to be found in everything that happens.  It may be a while before it reveals itself. CALLER:  Absolutely. RUSH:  Right, and when she hugged my daughter I said, here's the difference, this candidate embraces life and all its limitless possibilities. RUSH:  All right. CALLER:  That's what she is. RUSH:  Terrific, okay, I gotta run here, but I'm going to put you on hold. CALLER:  Thank you, Rush. RUSH:  Thank you, Kurt.  I really appreciate it. ((( END TRANSCRIPT )))

you didn't agree with everything in that propaganda.  Therein lies the problem.  Don't put stuff out there as fact if you don't agree with it.

Sorry the Dems didn't have enough votes to pass the bail-out without their Pub counterparts.  They are all a greedy bunch of vipers and I intend to vote AGAINST my Senator (Democrat) and Represent (Republican) when they come up for re-election and I have told them so!  Both have voted to support big business in their district and gone against the will of there constituents on every issue.

Obama told an evangelical church in South Carolina: "I am confident we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth."

hmmm.

"My job this morning is to be so persuasive....that a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany, and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Barack."

- Barack Obama, January 8, 2008, speaking at Dartmouth College, New Hampshire

What in the heck?  He really does think he is the messiah!  Anyone else ever see or hear of this? I came across it somewhere, googled it and it's out there...

You are the one getting defensive because we don't see your point of view.  She asked for facts to back up your statement when it was just your opinion and not a fact at all. 

If that was your opinion...fine.  I do not agree but that is my opinion.  However, when people ask for facts...don't get all bent out of shape when you can't give them any.