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We do not purposely kill, cut off heads, torture.

Posted By: To say the USA does that is a flat lie...period.nm on 2009-04-23
In Reply to: The reason for the question...(sm) - Just the big bad

nm


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Bush signs torture ban but reserves right to torture






Boston.com

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Bush could bypass new torture ban


Waiver right is reserved



WASHINGTON -- When President Bush last week signed the bill outlawing the torture of detainees, he quietly reserved the right to bypass the law under his powers as commander in chief.


After approving the bill last Friday, Bush issued a ''signing statement -- an official document in which a president lays out his interpretation of a new law -- declaring that he will view the interrogation limits in the context of his broader powers to protect national security. This means Bush believes he can waive the restrictions, the White House and legal specialists said.


''The executive branch shall construe [the law] in a manner consistent with the constitutional authority of the President . . . as Commander in Chief, Bush wrote, adding that this approach ''will assist in achieving the shared objective of the Congress and the President . . . of protecting the American people from further terrorist attacks.


Some legal specialists said yesterday that the president's signing statement, which was posted on the White House website but had gone unnoticed over the New Year's weekend, raises serious questions about whether he intends to follow the law.


A senior administration official, who spoke to a Globe reporter about the statement on condition of anonymity because he is not an official spokesman, said the president intended to reserve the right to use harsher methods in special situations involving national security.


''We are not going to ignore this law, the official said, noting that Bush, when signing laws, routinely issues signing statements saying he will construe them consistent with his own constitutional authority. ''We consider it a valid statute. We consider ourselves bound by the prohibition on cruel, unusual, and degrading treatment.


But, the official said, a situation could arise in which Bush may have to waive the law's restrictions to carry out his responsibilities to protect national security. He cited as an example a ''ticking time bomb scenario, in which a detainee is believed to have information that could prevent a planned terrorist attack.


''Of course the president has the obligation to follow this law, [but] he also has the obligation to defend and protect the country as the commander in chief, and he will have to square those two responsibilities in each case, the official added. ''We are not expecting that those two responsibilities will come into conflict, but it's possible that they will.


David Golove, a New York University law professor who specializes in executive power issues, said that the signing statement means that Bush believes he can still authorize harsh interrogation tactics when he sees fit.


''The signing statement is saying 'I will only comply with this law when I want to, and if something arises in the war on terrorism where I think it's important to torture or engage in cruel, inhuman, and degrading conduct, I have the authority to do so and nothing in this law is going to stop me,' he said. ''They don't want to come out and say it directly because it doesn't sound very nice, but it's unmistakable to anyone who has been following what's going on.


Golove and other legal specialists compared the signing statement to Bush's decision, revealed last month, to bypass a 1978 law forbidding domestic wiretapping without a warrant. Bush authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans' international phone calls and e-mails without a court order starting after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.


The president and his aides argued that the Constitution gives the commander in chief the authority to bypass the 1978 law when necessary to protect national security. They also argued that Congress implicitly endorsed that power when it authorized the use of force against the perpetrators of the attacks.


Legal academics and human rights organizations said Bush's signing statement and his stance on the wiretapping law are part of a larger agenda that claims exclusive control of war-related matters for the executive branch and holds that any involvement by Congress or the courts should be minimal.


Vice President Dick Cheney recently told reporters, ''I believe in a strong, robust executive authority, and I think that the world we live in demands it. . . . I would argue that the actions that we've taken are totally appropriate and consistent with the constitutional authority of the president.


Since the 2001 attacks, the administration has also asserted the power to bypass domestic and international laws in deciding how to detain prisoners captured in the Afghanistan war. It also has claimed the power to hold any US citizen Bush designates an ''enemy combatant without charges or access to an attorney.


And in 2002, the administration drafted a secret legal memo holding that Bush could authorize interrogators to violate antitorture laws when necessary to protect national security. After the memo was leaked to the press, the administration eliminated the language from a subsequent version, but it never repudiated the idea that Bush could authorize officials to ignore a law.


The issue heated up again in January 2005. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales disclosed during his confirmation hearing that the administration believed that antitorture laws and treaties did not restrict interrogators at overseas prisons because the Constitution does not apply abroad.


In response, Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, filed an amendment to a Defense Department bill explicitly saying that that the cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment of detainees in US custody is illegal regardless of where they are held.


McCain's office did not return calls seeking comment yesterday.


The White House tried hard to kill the McCain amendment. Cheney lobbied Congress to exempt the CIA from any interrogation limits, and Bush threatened to veto the bill, arguing that the executive branch has exclusive authority over war policy.


But after veto-proof majorities in both houses of Congress approved it, Bush called a press conference with McCain, praised the measure, and said he would accept it.


Legal specialists said the president's signing statement called into question his comments at the press conference.


''The whole point of the McCain Amendment was to close every loophole, said Marty Lederman, a Georgetown University law professor who served in the Justice Department from 1997 to 2002. ''The president has re-opened the loophole by asserting the constitutional authority to act in violation of the statute where it would assist in the war on terrorism.


Elisa Massimino, Washington director for Human Rights Watch, called Bush's signing statement an ''in-your-face affront to both McCain and to Congress.


''The basic civics lesson that there are three co-equal branches of government that provide checks and balances on each other is being fundamentally rejected by this executive branch, she said.


''Congress is trying to flex its muscle to provide those checks [on detainee abuse], and it's being told through the signing statement that it's impotent. It's quite a radical view. src=http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/File-Based_Image_Resource/dingbat_story_end_icon.gif



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© Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company
 












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Anyone purposely pointing out Hussein
Is just a stupid loser.  You are a racist.  Obama is not Muslim but what if he was????  Timothy McVeigh was a Christian and he blew up government buildings.  There are many good muslims and good Christians AND good atheists.  Can you wrap your hands around that?  Anyone drawing attention to the middle name HUSSEIN is trying to cause trouble or fear that it sounds like a terrorist name.  How small minded you are.  Did you even graduate high school?  I won't be looking for your reply.  I'm busy planning a victory party for Obama.
How can you trust him otherwise? He could be purposely disrespecting our flag (sm)
as a sign to those he truly sides with that he is on their team. The mere thought that someone could be elected to be our President while refusing to accept our flag is just insane! Do you have any idea how good we have it in America compared to other countries? Do you want to become a third world country? Do you know how possible it is?
Still, nobody puts a gun to their heads

and makes them sign on the dotted line.  You can always change your phone number and address.


Personaly, I don't believe much of that crap you're posting is true.  I know recruiters can be persistent, but all this conspiracy theory is just that, conspiracy.


Heads up on PA taxes

Everyone has to know about this. I posted this on the tax board and main board, too. If PA gets away with this, all states are liable to start doing it.


How desperate are the governors getting? PA sent out tax forms to everyone that bought cigarettes from a Native American reservation and they want their tax money. One woman in PA was hit up for over $4,800 and last week, they slapped a Sheriff's Sale sign on her property.


Now, my DH received a letter today. They want anyone in business who bought anything from out-of-state companies (office supplies, equipment, tools, etc.) that don't reciprocate taxes to PA, to pay up. This doesn't just apply to last year. This goes all the way back to 1981!!! Since when, since records do not have to be kept after a certain amount of years, how can they do this?  DH doesn't have to worry about it that much. He usually always buys in PA.


I certainly do not have any receipts back to 1981 when I was an IC!


It's bad enough the governor is "threatening" to raise property taxes if he can't pass the higher income tax, but now this. I think our state government should stop the spending like he's always done. We're broke, yet he keeps handing out money.


What kind of government do you call this? More like communism than socialism. They can kiss my butt. I paid sales tax every year I was an IC since we had to charge clients 6% and had a client I didn't know was tax exampt. So they received almost $4000 extra from me, which my great financial advisor at the time did not deduct the extra off our income taxes.


Their accusations as empty as their heads.
That was how they managed to cow the opposition on the other board, Reader - by initiating shocking personal attacks, maybe you recall that if you were there.

But I totally agree with you, you can't fend off a pack of snarling wolves with toy gun - predictable that that is what they WISH we would do . You can't be courteous to them because they see that as a sign of weakness and take it as the signal to go in for the kill. Then they call you hateful if you point out what a lawless and opportunistic group they really are.
We should hang our heads in shame that
xoxoxo
It's a meltdown, and heads are starting

to explode!


Heads up Governor Schwarzenegger!!!!

If you want to resolve most of the problems in California, how about trying to boot all all the illegals and their anchor babies with all the freebies they are not entitled to, all the jobs they are taking away from legal citizens, and stop giving them free healthcare, free money, free shelter, free subsidies, all NOT FREE TO ME!!!


 


Obey the law and kick them out and that would take care of most of your financial woes!


Exactly!.. Obama="cut off our heads, but sorry
nm
Conservative talking heads at it again...(sm)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uaK4ZXvClE


Anyone see a theme here? 


Do not fall for this hysteria... we all need calm heads
or we will all be in trouble, republican and democrats.  This is becoming the perfect storm for socialism if we do not stop being led around by those trying to play on our emotions. 
Well, then. That explains why calling them towel heads
do a pretty good "blend" themselves and many among us find them every bit as scary as Jihadist terrorists...does not justify calling all Christians Bible-thumping idiots, hate-mongering racists, bigoted boobs and the like, now does it?
Heads up Bush and Cheney lovers...(sm)
from what I understand, the govt will be releasing more of the redacted portions of the torture memos on Friday.  Soon to be followed by more info.  Hold onto your hats. 
Me thinks some people's brains do not reside in their heads. nm
.
I have never in my life seen a group of people in such denial over EVERYTHING!! Get your heads out
You people deny that the dems are responsible for the housing crisis.  Do some objective research!!  They most certainly DID cause the crisis!  You deny that the voter fraud from ACORN is a big deal, and that they are not trying to sway the election to any particular side!!!  There were over 200,000 fraudulent votes in Ohio alone!!  I was watching on CNN about this (the station that NEVER says anything negative towards liberals), and they were even talking about what a huge problem this is.  They showed a ballot with the name of Jimmie Johns.  They found the address, and it was Jimmie Johns restaurant - and there are 10s of thousands of ballots like this.  And who worked for ACORN?  Yup - the people's Messiah Obama.  And somehow you all will find a way to minimize this and twist the facts, and probably blame me for telling this to you...
You must spend more time listening to talking heads

Heads dems win, tails pubs lose. I'm just sayin'........

x


Okay to kill one but not the other?

I heard her on Sean Hannity's radio show a few days ago. 


Another real dandy is that Killer the Baby Killer in Kansas.


This so-called pro-choice types are the same ones who tore into Joe Horn for killing an illegal thug who was threatening private property.  Diane Sawyer is only one of these utopian elites.


Funny how the twisted logic of the left works.


And from Mr. Pro-torture
Powell Aide: Torture 'Guidance' from VP
CNN News

Monday 21 November 2005

Former staff chief says Cheney's 'flexibility' helped lead to abuse.
Retired U.S. Army Col. Larry Wilkerson, who served as former Secretary of State Colin Powell's chief of staff, told CNN that the practice of torture may be continuing in U.S.-run facilities.

There's no question in my mind that we did. There's no question in my mind that we may be still doing it, Wilkerson said on CNN's Late Edition.

There's no question in my mind where the philosophical guidance and the flexibility in order to do so originated - in the vice president of the United States' office, he said. His implementer in this case was [Defense Secretary] Donald Rumsfeld and the Defense Department.

At another point in the interview, Wilkerson said the vice president had to cover this in order for it to happen and in order for Secretary Rumsfeld to feel as though he had freedom of action.

Traveling in Latin America earlier this month, President Bush defended U.S. treatment of prisoners, saying flatly, We do not torture. (Full story)

Cheney has lobbied against a measure in Congress that would outlaw cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment of prisoners, calling for an exception for the CIA in cases that involve a detainee who may have knowledge of an imminent attack.

The amendment was included in a $491 billion Pentagon spending bill that declared 2006 to be a period of significant transition for Iraq. (Full story)

Proposed by Sen. John McCain, an Arizona Republican who was tortured as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam, the amendment was approved in the Senate last month by a 90-9 vote. It was not included in the House version of the bill.

The White House has said that Bush would likely veto the bill if McCain's language is included, calling the amendment unnecessary and duplicative.

Rumsfeld told ABC's This Week on Sunday that the White House was in negotiations with the Senate over the amendment.

There's a discussion and debate taking place as to what the implications might be and what is supportable and what is not, he told the program. But the fact of the matter is the president from the outset has said that he required that there be humane treatment.

Cheney has come under mounting criticism for his position. Last week, Stansfield Turner, a military veteran who served as director of the CIA during the Carter administration, labeled him the vice president for torture. (Full story)

In a statement responding to Turner's remark, Cheney said his views are reflected in the administration's policy. Our country is at war and our government has an obligation to protect the American people from a brutal enemy that has declared war upon us.

We are aggressively finding terrorists and bringing them to justice and anything we do within this effort is within the law, the statement said, adding that the United States does not torture.

Rumsfeld Denies 'Cabal' Charge

Bush administration officials, including Rumsfeld and military officials, have denied that instances of torture were ever officially condoned. Some personnel accused of torture have been convicted and sentenced for prisoner abuse.

All the instructions I issued required humane treatment, Rumsfeld told ABC. Anything that was done that was not humane has been prosecuted.

But Wilkerson argued last month in a speech that Cheney and Rumsfeld formed a cabal that made decisions that the bureaucracy did not know were being made.

Wilkerson told CNN Sunday he does not know if the president was witting in this or not.

I voted for him twice, he said. I prefer to think that he was not.

Earlier, on the same CNN program, Rumsfeld dismissed as ridiculous the claim that he was involved in a cabal.

Rumsfeld and Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said they had no recollection of Wilkerson having attended meetings with Rumsfeld or Cheney.

In terms of having first-hand information, I just can't imagine that he does, said Rumsfeld. The allegation is ridiculous.

I was in every meeting with the joint chiefs. I was in every meeting with the combatant commanders. I went to the White House multiple times to meet with the National Security Council and with the president of the United States. I have never seen that colonel, added Pace.

They made my point for me, responded Wilkerson. The decisions were not made in the principals' process, in the deputies' process, in the policy coordinating committee process. They were not made in the statutory process.

Wilkerson said his insights came from Powell walking through my door in April or March of 2004 and telling me to get everything I could get my hands on with regard to the detainee abuse issue - ICRC [International Committee of the Red Cross] reporting, memoranda, open-source information and so forth - so that I could build some kind of story, some kind of audit trail so we could understand the chronology and we can understand how it developed.

While he acknowledged having no proof that the United States is torturing detainees, Wilkerson said, I can only assume that, when the vice president of the United States lobbies the Congress on behalf of cruel and unusual punishment and the need to be able to do that in order to get information out of potential terrorists... that it's still going on.

He said U.S. officials should realize they are involved in a war of ideas that cannot be advanced with torture.

In a war of ideas, you cannot damage your own ideas, your own position by seeming to do things that are in contradiction of your values, he said.

Rumsfeld told ABC that the military has overwhelmingly treated people humanely.

The history of the United States military is clear. Torture doesn't work. The military knows that. We want our people treated humanely, he said.

So torture is okay?
Sorry, don't watch TV. Homeland security - horse and pony show.........Our current govt is hiring people left and right, recruiting nonstop to hire people to protect our country. We will get attacked again. Can't blame anyone but the perps for that. It is what Obama will do about it that I am concerned with. Bush promised to get bin laden and invaded Iraq instead. Look at Katrina. Bush could not fix the knot in his own undershorts, let alone run a country. 
Torture is torture
Torture is wrong, no matter where it took place. Do you think God is going to look kindly on anyone torturing another human being...A.K.A. "Playing God"??
Who have they threatened to kill?

I'm serious.  WHO?  I honestly don't know because I don't listen to them, either.  But if they have aired similar threats upon a group of people, then I believe they are equally wrong.


If you are offended by my liberal beliefs being posted on the LIBERAL BOARD, then perhaps you would feel more comfortable on the Conservative Board.  Just a thought.


He did kill his own people
Hundreds of mass graves prove it.  Saddam's sons killed their own people for bloodsport.
To Kill an American...sm
Disclaimer: Not sure if this is a true story or not, but it is a great write.

To Kill an American

You probably missed it in the rush of news last week, but there was actually a report that someone in Pakistan had published in a newspaper an offer of a reward to anyone who killed an American, any American.


So an Australian dentist wrote an editorial the following day to let everyone know what an American is . So they would know when they found one. (Good one, mate!!!!)


An American is English, or French, or Italian, Irish, German, Spanish, Polish, Russian or Greek. An American may also be Canadian, Mexican, Puertorican, South American, African, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Australian, Iranian, Asian, or Arab, or Pakistani or Afghan.


An American may also be a Comanche, Cherokee, Osage, Blackfoot, Navaho, Apache, Seminole or one of the many other tribes known as native Americans.


An American is Christian, or he could be Jewish, or Buddhist, or Muslim.
In fact, there are more Muslims in America than in Afghanistan . The only difference is that in America they are free to worship as each of them chooses.


An American is also free to believe in no religion. For that he will answer only to God, not to the government, or to armed thugs claiming to speak for the government and for God.


An American lives in the most prosperous land in the history of the world.
The root of that prosperity can be found in the Declaration of Independence , which recognizes the God given right of each person to the pursuit of happiness.


An American is generous. Americans have helped out just about every other nation in the world in their time of need, never asking a thing in return.


When Afghanistan was over-run by the Soviet army 20 years ago, Americans came with arms and supplies to enable the people to win back their country!


As of the morning of September 11, Americans had given more than any other nation to the poor in Afghanistan . Americans welcome the best of everything...the best products, the best books, the best music, the best food, the best services. But they also welcome the least.


The national symbol of America, The Statue of Liberty , welcomes your tired and your poor, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores, the homeless, tempest tossed. These in fact are the people who built America .


Some of them were working in the Twin Towers the morning of September 11, 2001 earning a better life for their families. It's been told that the World Trade Center victims were from at least 30 different countries, cultures, and first languages, including those that aided and abetted the terrorists.


So you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did. So did General Tojo, and Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung, and other blood-thirsty tyrants in the world. But, in doing so you would just be killing yourself. Because Americans are not a particular people from a particular place. They are the embodiment of the human spirit of freedom. Everyone who holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an American.
Thou shall not kill
If we follow your logic, then we better not remove warts or cancer growths, either. They are both alive and growing.
Regardless, this means we kill them all?
It is their right to live the way they chose. We can't go attacking every one who is a possible threat on more levels than I'm going to go into here. I would rather see our leaders spend the time and money on securing things here rather than wage war there. We are just formulating more hatred. We CAN change whether we are the ones in the war by not going to war, and I shall not blindly trust our leaders to do the right thing because it has been proven time and again that they rarely do.
Geez. You kill me....
however, I do like the moniker "spiteful little vixen." I may get stationery printed.

Good grief...you are the one exhibiting intolerance and hatred...yikes, someone must have spit in your post toasties this morning!!

You have slipped off the deep end, my friend. I don't know what cliches you mean, but if you are talking about the prayer at the top that was sincere...try to get hold of this, although your monster ego may not allow you to...there are OTHER posters here who live in South Texas or have family there, perhaps some I don't even know about, that was posted out of genuine concern and although I think you are several bricks shy of a load, I don't want to see you blown off the face of the earth, and whether you can get off your high horse down here to where there is enough air for your brain to work properly, I don't want illegals blown off the face of the earth either. I just want them to obey the law, come here legally, pay taxes like the rest of us and live happily ever after. And for that you want me tarred and feathered. Go figure.

And now that I have ascended to your level of sniping (thank you, I am learning much from you about verbal abuse), here's hoping I never do again...you have that area well covered.

What happened to that sabbatical? Gotta have the last word...sister, you got it. LOL. Signed, the spiteful little vixen....LOL
Better to kill it....?? sigh. nm
nm
You got it, Sam.... and socialism will kill our
nm
Don't kill people in other
countries where terrorists are plotting against use....but by all means let viable infants die if they are failed abortions because it would be detrimental to the mother's health for her child to survive after she tried to murder it. 
Ah. Okay to kill a child rather than own up to ...
responsibility. I see. Why not just force feed "the pill" from the time a girl reaches menarche. Better than killing the "mistakes" from "raging hormones" along the way. If you can't teach responsibility, and don't intend to make them responsible...put them on the pill.
pay to kill people?
what an awful thing to say about our men and women who are put in harm's way every day
they are doing theiR JOB, you are saying we are paying them to kill??? no we are paying them to do their job... and that is what they are doing!

you should be ashamed of that statement
We don't kill an adult
when they are found to have terminal cancer. Why then should we kill a baby who is terminal? No logic there whatsoever.
Now Mr. Pro-torture is scheduled
Cheney to raise funds for DeLay

The White House is not distancing itself from embattled former U.S. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas), who is facing charges of breaking state campaign finance law.

Vice President Cheney is scheduled to appear at a December 5, Houston fundraiser on DeLay's behalf. Donors are being asked to contribute at least $500, according to an e-mail sent by the Fort Bend (Texas) Republican Party. Shannon Flaherty, DeLay's spokeswoman, confirmed details of the fundraiser.

For five years, Congressman DeLay has served as a key ally to pass the White House's agenda through Congress, and Ronnie Earle's political sideshow isn't going to get in the way of the real business at hand, said Flaherty. This event shows the Democrat strategy of avenging their ballot box losses with smear tactics and lawsuits is not going to work -- Republicans stick by their friends and don't back down from a fight.

DeLay was forced to step down from his leadership position in late September after Earle, the Travis County (Texas) district attorney, charged him with illegally directing corporate donations to Texas candidates. DeLay has asked that his trial be moved from Travis to Fort Bend County.

As of September 30, 2005, DeLay had $1.164 million in his warchest. Former Rep. Nick Lampson (D-Texas) is challenging DeLay for his seat.
Gitmo Torture
This will undoubtably shake some things up. If the detainees' trials cannot proceed because the "enhanced interrogation techniques" authorized by the Bush administration have tainted the process so much that prosecutors cannot proceed in some of their cases, what happens now?


"We tortured [Mohammed al-]Qahtani," said Susan J. Crawford, in her first interview since being named convening authority of military commissions by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates in February 2007. "His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that's why I did not refer the case" for prosecution.

....

Crawford, 61, said the combination of the interrogation techniques, their duration and the impact on Qahtani's health led to her conclusion. "The techniques they used were all authorized, but the manner in which they applied them was overly aggressive and too persistent. . . . You think of torture, you think of some horrendous physical act done to an individual. This was not any one particular act; this was just a combination of things that had a medical impact on him, that hurt his health. It was abusive and uncalled for. And coercive. Clearly coercive. It was that medical impact that pushed me over the edge" to call it torture, she said.
Torture and Oppression?
What kind of marshmallow life have you been living, my dear? Do you have any idea what some people go through in other parts of the world?

How can we help but laugh at you if you insist on making a fool of yourself?
Religulous torture....(sm)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The more often Americans go to church, the more likely they are to support the torture of suspected terrorists, according to a new survey.





The Washington Region Religious Campaign Against Torture rallied on Capitol Hill in March 2008.


More than half of people who attend services at least once a week -- 54 percent -- said the use of torture against suspected terrorists is "often" or "sometimes" justified. Only 42 percent of people who "seldom or never" go to services agreed, according the analysis released Wednesday by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life.


White evangelical Protestants were the religious group most likely to say torture is often or sometimes justified -- more than six in 10 supported it. People unaffiliated with any religious organization were least likely to back it. Only four in 10 of them did.


The analysis is based on a Pew Research Center survey of 742 American adults conducted April 14-21. It did not include analysis of groups other than white evangelicals, white non-Hispanic Catholics, white mainline Protestants and the religiously unaffiliated, because the sample size was too small. " See results of the survey »


The president of the National Association of Evangelicals, Leith Anderson, did not immediately respond to a request for comment.


The survey asked: "Do you think the use of torture against suspected terrorists in order to gain important information can often be justified, sometimes be justified, rarely be justified, or never be justified?"


Roughly half of all respondents -- 49 percent -- said it is often or sometimes justified. A quarter said it never is.


The religious group most likely to say torture is never justified was Protestant denominations -- such as Episcopalians, Lutherans and Presbyterians -- categorized as "mainline" Protestants, in contrast to evangelicals. Just over three in 10 of them said torture is never justified. A quarter of the religiously unaffiliated said the same, compared with two in 10 white non-Hispanic Catholics and one in eight evangelicals


http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/30/religion.torture/index.html#cnnSTCText


Obviously, "torture is torture".
The question is what constitutes torture. In my view, none of the techniques used, under the conditions in which they were used, constitute torture, including waterboarding.

I'd get into the notion of waterboarding as torture if we didn't do it to our own troops by way of training. That, to me, puts the tin hat on any idea that waterboarding constitutes torture.

This idea that interrogation should constitute nothing more severe than a game of "Simon Says" or "Mother May I?" suggests to me that we should bring back the draft and extend it to both sexes. There are too many people in this country who have never had to confront anything in this world more evil than their best friend running off with their boyfriend. They seem to think the world is made of gingerbread, and populated by Sunday School teachers. A stint in the military would open their eyes to reality.
If waterboarding isn't torture...(sm)
then why did we execute Japanese war criminals for waterboarding American POWs after WWII?  Maybe it's just considered torture when done to Americans?  You can't have it both ways. 
Definitely NOT by torture, If I were Obama I would probably know how!...nm
nm
O is not going to engage in torture. He does not
believe in torture.
Bush's and Cheney's way DID NOT WORK.

How can you say that I am naive, maybe you are. Who knows?

Time will tell.

I can only pray, hope and wish that O will be successful in protecting and promoting the United States of America.
Germany didn't kill
The whole fricken country didn't kill jews - the leadership of that country did!!!!! Just like every Muslim is not a terrorist, every person who lives south of Maryland is not a red neck. I don't agree with prosecuting Rumsfeld for Murder, but let's keep the bigotry off the liberal board and take it back over to the conservative board where it is welcome.
Relax. It is the law. You are free to kill at will...
does not make it right.
They support NRA so you can kill the guy who rapes you but
xx stupid you are
No to torture ! This brings only hate and more war! ..nm
nm
NO to torture. YES to tough interrogations!
nm
No, you are wrong. Obama is against torture,
he does not want to go the same path like Bush and Cheney, the wrong path.

He wants to compromise and negotiate. He started already with Iran and Netanyahu. He snubbed Natanyahu and told him that Natanyahu has to accept and agree to a 2-state solution or there will most probably be war.

O is very, very smart and I pray to God that he will stay strong and prevail when even certain Americans wish him failure.
It proves the extent of the torture that was used...(sm)
as well as shows the public exactly what the last admin did.  It puts in front of the public (in particular republicans who would be against prosecuting the Bush admin) the facts.  I honestly think the main point of showing pics is to gain public support for the prosecution of the last admin.  I think dems are kind of fighting the battle before it gets there to make prosecution easier......but that's just my opinion.
yes, I agree, the torture was extreme, we just
got a 'glimpse' of it. But this is not the right time to expose it when the US troops are still in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Torture memos update
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#31378360