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Soldiers and peace officers pledging to refuse to obey sm

Posted By: LVMT on 2009-03-19
In Reply to:

An invitation to soldiers and peace officers across the United States to pledge to refuse illegal orders – including "state of emergency" orders that could include disarming or detaining American citizens – has struck a chord, collecting more than 100,000 website visitors in a little over a week and hundreds of e-mails daily.

Link to article: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=91530

Oath Keepers website: http://oath-keepers.blogspot.com/2009/03/oath-keepers-declaration-of-orders-we.html


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Oh yes, I shall obey you

...oh master of the liberal board.  Too bad the only person you think might listen when you bark out orders is some poster on a LIBERAL forum.  Not very smart.   Nope, nope. 


I never said Vietnam and Korea were civil wars, you silly silly goose, now quit making things up!!!! 


Poster who implies anyone wanted officers shot was certainly slamming.
And if they did not mean to do it - which I doubt - they need to rethink their delivery if they don't want to be continually misunderstood (though I also doubt they were).
You are right. I will obey the rules from now on. sm

Have a nice holiday.


Perhaps I would *obey* that, but you do it on the conservative board.
So we are expected to stay off this board and you can bash on the conservative board.  Just trying to get the rules straight here.
Judges say Bush must obey the law like everyone else.
March 29, 2006


Judges on Secretive Panel Speak Out on Spy Program




WASHINGTON, March 28 — Five former judges on the nation's most secretive court, including one who resigned in apparent protest over President Bush's domestic eavesdropping, urged Congress on Tuesday to give the court a formal role in overseeing the surveillance program.


In a rare glimpse into the inner workings of the secretive court, known as the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, several former judges who served on the panel also voiced skepticism at a Senate hearing about the president's constitutional authority to order wiretapping on Americans without a court order. They also suggested that the program could imperil criminal prosecutions that grew out of the wiretaps.


Judge Harold A. Baker, a sitting federal judge in Illinois who served on the intelligence court until last year, said the president was bound by the law like everyone else. If a law like the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act is duly enacted by Congress and considered constitutional, Judge Baker said, the president ignores it at the president's peril.


Judge Baker and three other judges who served on the intelligence court testified at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing in support of a proposal by Senator Arlen Specter, Republican of Pennsylvania, to give the court formal oversight of the National Security Agency's eavesdropping program. Committee members also heard parts of a letter in support of the proposal from a fifth judge, James Robertson, who left the court last December, days after the eavesdropping program was disclosed.


The intelligence court, created by Congress in 1978, meets in a tightly guarded, windowless office at the Justice Department. The court produces no public findings except for a single tally to Congress each year on the number of warrants it has issued — more than 1,600 in 2004. Even its roster of judges serving seven-year terms was, for a time, considered secret.


But Mr. Bush's decision effectively to bypass the court in permitting eavesdropping without warrants has raised the court's profile. That was underscored by the appearance on Tuesday of the four former FISA judges: Judge Baker; Judge Stanley S. Brotman, who left the panel in 2004; Judge John F. Keenan, who left in 2001; and Judge William H. Stafford Jr., who left in 2003. All four sit on the federal judiciary.


At a hearing lasting more than three hours, the former FISA judges discussed in detail their views on the standards of proof required by the court, its relations with the Justice Department, and the constitutional, balance-of-power issues at the heart of the debate over the N.S.A. program. The agency monitored the international communications of people inside the United States believed to be linked to Al Qaeda.


The public broadcasting of the court's business struck some court watchers as extraordinary. This is unprecedented, said Magistrate Judge Allan Kornblum, who supervised Justice Department wiretap applications to the court for many years and testified alongside the four former judges.


But the most pointed testimony may have come from a man who was not at the hearing: Judge Robertson.


A sitting federal judge in Washington, Judge Robertson resigned from the intelligence court just days after the N.S.A. program was disclosed.


Colleagues say he resigned in frustration over the fact that none of the court's 11 judges, except for the presiding judge, were briefed on the program or knew of its existence. But Judge Robertson has remained silent, declining all requests for interviews, and his comments entered into The Congressional Record on Tuesday represented his first public remarks on the controversy.


In a March 23 letter in response to a query from Mr. Specter, the judge said he supported Mr. Specter's proposal to give approval authority over the administration's electronic surveillance program to the court.


The Bush administration, in its continued defense of the program, maintains that no change in the law is needed because the president has the inherent constitutional authority to order wiretaps without warrants in defense of the country.


Mr. Specter's proposal seeks to give the intelligence court a role in ruling on the legitimacy of the program. A competing proposal by Senator Mike DeWine, Republican of Ohio, would allow the president to authorize wiretaps for 45 days without Congressional oversight or judicial approval.


Judge Robertson made clear that he believed the FISA court should review the surveillance program. Seeking judicial approval for government activities that implicate constitutional protections is, of course, the American way, he wrote.


But Judge Robertson argued that the court should not conduct a general review of the surveillance operation, as Mr. Specter proposed. Instead, he said the court should rule on individual warrant applications for eavesdropping under the program lasting 45 or 90 days.


Acknowledging the need for secrecy surrounding such a program, he said the FISA court was best situated for the task. Its judges are independent, appropriately cleared, experienced in intelligence matters, and have a perfect security record, Judge Robertson said.


He did not weigh in on the ultimate question of whether he considered the N.S.A. program illegal. The judges at the committee hearing avoided that politically charged issue despite persistent questioning from Democrats, even as the judges raised concerns about how the program was put into effect.


Judge Baker said he felt most comfortable talking about possible changes to strengthen the foreign intelligence law. Whether something's legal or illegal goes beyond that, he said, and that's why I'm shying away from answering that.


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/29/politics/29nsa.html?ex=1301288400&en=603fa5fc610103fa&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss


CIA Director Panetta: Records Show CIA Officers Briefed Lawmakers Truthfully

WASHINGTON — Director Leon Panetta says agency records show CIA officers briefed lawmakers truthfully in 2002 on methods of interrogating terrorism suspects, but it is up to Congress to reach its own conclusions about what happened.


Panetta's message to agency employees came one day after Speaker Pelosi said bluntly the CIA had misled her and other lawmakers about the use of waterboarding and other harsh techniques seven years ago.


Panetta wrote that the political debates about interrogation "reached a new decibel level" with the charges.


He urged agency employees to "ignore the noise and stay focused on your mission."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/15/cia-director-panetta-reco_n_204005.html


==============================================


Pelosi Accuses CIA of 'Misleading' Congress on Waterboarding


House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Thursday accused the CIA of misleading Congress about its use of enhanced interrogation techniques on terror detainees.


"Yes I am saying the CIA was misleading the Congress, and at the same time the (Bush) administration was misleading the Congress on weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, to which I said that this intelligence doesn't support the imminent threat," Pelosi said at her weekly news conference.


"Every step of the way the administration was misleading the Congress and that is the issue and that's why we need a truth commission," she said.


Under a barrage of questioning, Pelosi adamantly insisted that she was not aware that waterboarding or other enhanced interrogation techniques were being used on terrorism suspects.


"I am telling you they told me they approved these and said they wanted to use them but said they were not using waterboarding," she said.


Growing increasingly frustrated throughout the briefing, Pelosi slowly started backing away from the podium as she tried to end the questioning.


As she backed out, she continued to accuse the CIA of not telling Congress that dissenting opinions had been filed within the administration suggesting the methods were not lawful.


The CIA immediately disputed Pelosi's accusation, saying the documents describing the particular enhanced interrogation techniques that had been employed are accurate. CIA spokesman George Little noted that CIA Director Leon Panetta made available to the House Intelligence Committee memos from individuals who led the briefings with House members.


"The language in the chart -- 'a description of the particular EITs that had been employed' -- is true to the language in the agency's records," Little said. "The chart I'm referring to is, of course, the list of member briefings on enhanced interrogation techniques."


Republicans also questioned Pelosi's charge.


"It's hard for me to imagine anyone in our intelligence area would ever mislead a member of Congress," House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said at his weekly news conference. "They come to the Hill to brief us because they're required to under the law. I don't know what motivation they would have to mislead anyone."


The top Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee, Sen. Kit Bond, R-Mo., told FOX News that Pelosi's accusation against the CIA is "not credible."


"I am afraid she has disremembered what she went through," he said. "We have had not only the records from the CIA but the contemporaries who were there with her had other views on it, so I am afraid that this is not a credible explanation."


Pelosi said she was briefed only once on the interrogation methods in September 2002. She acknowledged that her intelligence aide, Michael Sheehy, informed her about another briefing five months later in which Bush officials said waterboarding was being used on CIA terror detainee Abu Zubaydah.


Pelosi said she supported a letter drafted by Rep. Jane Harman, D-Calif., the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee who also attended the briefing in February 2003, and sent to the Bush administration, raising concerns over the technique.


Pelosi's account has changed several times in recent weeks as she has sought to clarify what she did or didn't know about the interrogation methods that she is pushing to investigate.


Pelosi said last month that she was never told that the controversial interrogation methods were being used. But a national intelligence report later showed that she was briefed seven years ago on the tactics while she was on the House Intelligence Committee.


Her spokesman then said the speaker thought the techniques were legal and that waterboarding was not used.


Democrats will hold a series of hearings on Justice Department memos released last month that justified rough tactics against detainees, including waterboarding and sleep deprivation.


While Democrats want the hearings to focus on what they call torture, Republicans have tried to turn the issue to their advantage by complaining that Pelosi and other Democrats knew of the tactics but didn't protest.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/14/pelosi-reiterates-didnt-know-waterboarding-use/


I refuse to discuss

religion with Moonies or Scientologists.  There is just no common ground.  The same way as I refuse to discuss politics with people who actually consider Fox a news station.  They are indoctrinated and innoculated from the truth by daily coordinated talking points to distort any event (such as saying Charlie Gibson looking down his nose at SP or was too rough on her) to favor their desire to keep the corrupt repubs in power. It's a waste of my time.


 


 


I'm sorry you refuse to see their teachings as
I can give you confession after confession of Muslims who have denounced those teachings once they were free from that country. They admit they are teachings of hate; even though they believed some of them were similar to Christian teachings, they couldn't understand why they were taught to hate by their teachings. I can give you many who say this....but of course I suupose you will say they don't know what they're talking about either.
Pay close attention to a paragraph under the head of Christianity and Islam, where he quotes a verse from Sura 5:51......and what he has to say after that.

http://www.everystudent.com/wires/abdul.html
But they refuse to understand.........
He has yet to prove citizenship.... and for those that say he IS a citizen, even if he were born in Hawaii, his stepfather (who is Muslim) adopted him in Indonesia. Once he was adopted by his stepfather, his stepfather renounced Obama's U.S. citizenship. The United States does NOT recognize dual citizenship with Indonesia....never has in the past either. Indonesia does NOT recognize dual citizenship, so Obama cannot have dual citizenship. The only way to reclaim his U.S. citizenship is to go through the Immigration Dept just like anyone else, fill out the necessary paperwork, and wait for his hearing. He has no paperwork to prove that either. He knows he does not. If he did, all he would have to do is show his immigration papers but he can't because he doesn't have them.

You can only have dual citizenship with a country that allows that. Obama's stepfather renounced Obama's U.S. citizenship and claimed him Muslim, as was his father. His stepsister even says he is Muslim through and through....

Now, that being said, supposedly Indonesia had tried to begin a new dual nationality law as of ག or so, but Obama hasn't filled out any paperwork for that as an Indonesian either. As of གྷ the new law in Indonesia had not even been implemented. There is a lot of red tape and still many who object to dual nationality allowances.

Our law says in order to be a "natural born citizen"..

The U.S. Law in effect during Obama's birth stated if you are born abroad to one U.S. parent and a foreign national, the U.S. parent must have resided in the United States for ten (10) years, five (5) of which were after the age of Fourteen (14) in order to register the child's birth abroad in the United States as a "natural born" U.S. citizen.

Either way.....he AIN'T a citizen of this country....
I refuse to waste my

time reading biased, inaccurate opinions. Got a prob with that? Yours only.


 


I did....you refuse to accept it.
Go tweak someone else for a while.
No, I refuse to try and debate you anymore
because you can't be anything but condescending and ugly. 
Those who refuse to learn from history..... sm
are doomed to repeat it.  The following is a link written by an elderly woman who grew up in Nazi Germany.  See how many dots you can connect. 

http://carylmatrisciana.com:80/x2/content/view/74/1/
I refuse to conform and I just don't fit in," .......so he was fired!!

 'TOO PATRIOTIC'??  That's reason for dismissal from a job?  What the h@ll is this country coming to?   


 


http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=576612


 


 


I was trying to illustrate that you REFUSE to see what's in front of your face, that you must twi

it and turn it and manipulate it until it becomes something completely different and ugly, and you adopt THAT as the truth, when it isn't even close to what the real truth is.


Three fingers are three fingers.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.  No hidden meaning.  Just three fingers that the rest of the sane, intelligent, reasonable WORLD sees and recognizes as THREE FINGERS, as I said in my post.


A simple "I refuse to hear the truth" would do.
What Conyers is doing is playing by the rules. This is a HJC hearing, not a congressional hearing. There have been a number of ridiculous restrictions on what they can or cannot say imposed on this process. For example, they are not allowed to utter the word "impeachment" and Bush's name in the same sentence. Absurd. In spite of all the obstacles, he opened the hearings and has vowed to see it through and to bring the truth into the public discourse once the investigation is concluded. He is quite aware of the fact that he is putting his reputation as a senior member of Congress on the line, so it would make sense that what goes on there is compelling. He is doing nothing to distract or circle around THE ISSUES. He is moving the process along. He is chairing the committee. All the details of the restrictions, who put them there and why, Conyer's position, etctera, can be found in the numerous links that have been provided and is well summarized in DK's interview.

The difference between him and you? Are you serious? He is familiar with every single player, position, stance, viewpoint, piece of evidence and rebuttal. He is a fact checker. He is not considering this evidence on the basis of hearsay. He is evaluating the integrity of the proof as it is presented. You, on the other hand, say you know all you need to know because you have "heard it from other democrats." In other words, you are not willing to even listen to the prosecution case or its evidence as it is presented directly from the source. Instead you talk all around what is really taking place inside those chambers. You are still doing it, trying to twist this into something it most definitely is not. Here's the deal. When you can't win on the issues, out comes the smear and smut.

No one said anything about your having made anything up about Niger. No matter how hard you try, you cannot make this about that one single subject. There are literally scores of talking points and hundreds of pieces of evidence to sift through. You are not the least bit interested in any evidence. If you were, you would watch the interview and post you rebuttals. You're not doing that. You are obsfuscating. It's what you do. What possible difference could it make in terms of valid claims and conclusive evidence whether this process occurs in formal or informal impeachment hearings? Truth is truth. Proof is proof.

You are not interested in hearing from all the witnesses or seeing all the proof. Exactly the opposite. You want to see no witnesses and no proof, unless of course it backs your own contentions. Stop trying to imply that the process is rigged. In the post 9/11 politics of fear world, the republicans would classify the White House address, if they could get away with it. Preponderance of the evidence usually is all that is required to achieve majority vote. If that evidence is incomplete, you have the republicans to thank for that. Do you really think that all that info held in secret is vital to national security? The only thing it is vital to is covering the neoCONS behinds.

You doest protest too much. More obstacles. Be honest. This is not about you want this and you want that. It's what you DON'T want that is plain to see. You don't want to face the reality that they just might be onto something. Another pot shot at Clinton. You really think that lying about an affair is a more serious impeachable offense than misleading an entire nation on the reasons for going to war? One thing is for sure here. As long as you continue to refuse to view the process as it is happening, instead of what you speculate about what may or may not be going on, you really do not have any way to justify anything you are saying about it. You say you have heard what DK has said. Okay. Did you watch the interview? What was in it? You must have skipped over the stuff about the live blogging from inside the chambers. The information is available for those who are interested. Go to the links. It's all in there….including information on how to follow it on a day-to-day basis.

Since the rest of this post has disintegrated into non-stop personal attack, I will not waste my time with it. Clearly, you will not engage yourself in any direct, honest, informed dialogue on this subject. This is still about your comfort zone. This just goes to show how extremely intolerant you are whenever anybody tries to challenge your ideas and how terrified you really are with what might be coming out of those chambers.

Just ignore them, ms, obviously they refuse to read the whole thing....nm
x
And yet you STILL refuse to condemn child sexual abuse!

When this was first posted, it was posted before there were separate political boards.  Still, there was no response.


You people have done nothing by drive-by sniping posts for the last couple weeks, to the point where some of them had to be removed by the moderator.


Yet you're AFRAID to post outrage over child sexual abuse? 


I guess we can leave it at that.  You're obviously more outraged that I posted regarding this subject than you are at the subject itself.


And THAT speaks volumes.


Yeah, guess Obama supports refuse to look at all
nm
Yeah, agreed. Obama supporters refuse to see his
nm
It's actually more distracting to refuse to do someting that is a traditional symbol of our count
You are an American, right? You better enjoy your free speech while you still have it.
Facts are always called opinions by the left when they refuse to acknowledge them...sm
The facts within the article are true. No matter how much you want to ignore them.


You are so blind.
I refuse to forget history...can't afford to be "condemned to repeat it"

He created this cluster with his cronies and they should be held accountable.


Peace
Several people have told me I am wrong?  About what?  Jews and socialism/communism?  Guess those posts didnt come through on my computer.  Other things?  If you mean disagreeing, we all do on this board, so what.  I didnt think you kept track of who agrees with who.  That is what is meant by debate, disagreeing and agreeing and getting heated up and calming down and, shock..ending the debate with a hand shake and maybe a cup of coffee or cola afterwards.  Peace!
Another way to use soldiers
Out of respect for your request, Democrat, I will call myself Starcat.

It seems to me the last sentence sums it up very well, but Bush doesn't have the guts for that, does he? Just canned questions and canned answers.




Bush Teleconference With Soldiers Staged

By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press WriterThu Oct 13, 4:35 PM ET

It was billed as a conversation with U.S. troops, but the questions President Bush asked on a teleconference call Thursday were choreographed to match his goals for the war in Iraq and Saturday's vote on a new Iraqi constitution.

This is an important time, Allison Barber, deputy assistant defense secretary, said, coaching the soldiers before Bush arrived. The president is looking forward to having just a conversation with you.

Barber said the president was interested in three topics: the overall security situation in Iraq, security preparations for the weekend vote and efforts to train Iraqi troops.

As she spoke in Washington, a live shot of 10 soldiers from the Army's 42nd Infantry Division and one Iraqi soldier was beamed into the Eisenhower Executive Office Building from Tikrit — the birthplace of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.

I'm going to ask somebody to grab those two water bottles against the wall and move them out of the camera shot for me, Barber said.

A brief rehearsal ensued.

OK, so let's just walk through this, Barber said. Captain Kennedy, you answer the first question and you hand the mike to whom?

Captain Smith, Kennedy said.

Captain. Smith? You take the mike and you hand it to whom? she asked.

Captain Kennedy, the soldier replied.

And so it went.

If the question comes up about partnering — how often do we train with the Iraqi military — who does he go to? Barber asked.

That's going to go to Captain Pratt, one of the soldiers said.

And then if we're going to talk a little bit about the folks in Tikrit — the hometown — and how they're handling the political process, who are we going to give that to? she asked.

Before he took questions, Bush thanked the soldiers for serving and reassured them that the U.S. would not pull out of Iraq until the mission was complete.

So long as I'm the president, we're never going to back down, we're never going to give in, we'll never accept anything less than total victory, Bush said.

The president told them twice that the American people were behind them.

You've got tremendous support here at home, Bush said.

Less than 40 percent in an AP-Ipsos poll taken in October said they approved of the way Bush was handling Iraq. Just over half of the public now say the Iraq war was a mistake.

White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Thursday's event was coordinated with the Defense Department but that the troops were expressing their own thoughts. With satellite feeds, coordination often is needed to overcome technological challenges, such as delays, he said.

I think all they were doing was talking to the troops and letting them know what to expect, he said, adding that the president wanted to talk with troops on the ground who have firsthand knowledge about the situation.

The soldiers all gave Bush an upbeat view of the situation.

The president also got praise from the Iraqi soldier who was part of the chat.

Thank you very much for everything, he gushed. I like you.

On preparations for the vote, 1st Lt. Gregg Murphy of Tennessee said: Sir, we are prepared to do whatever it takes to make this thing a success. ... Back in January, when we were preparing for that election, we had to lead the way. We set up the coordination, we made the plan. We're really happy to see, during the preparation for this one, sir, they're doing everything.

On the training of Iraqi security forces, Master Sgt. Corine Lombardo from Scotia, N.Y., said to Bush: I can tell you over the past 10 months, we've seen a tremendous increase in the capabilities and the confidences of our Iraqi security force partners. ... Over the next month, we anticipate seeing at least one-third of those Iraqi forces conducting independent operations.

Lombardo told the president that she was in New York City on Nov. 11, 2001, when Bush attended an event recognizing soldiers for their recovery and rescue efforts at Ground Zero. She said the troops began the fight against terrorism in the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and were proud to continue it in Iraq.

I thought you looked familiar, Bush said, and then joked: I probably look familiar to you, too.

Paul Rieckhoff, director of the New York-based Operation Truth, an advocacy group for U.S. veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan, denounced the event as a carefully scripted publicity stunt. Five of the 10 U.S. troops involved were officers, he said.

If he wants the real opinions of the troops, he can't do it in a nationally televised teleconference, Rieckhoff said. He needs to be talking to the boots on the ground and that's not a bunch of captains.

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Soldiers are no different than anyone else....
in that there are those who disagree with this administration and the war. However, the overwhelming majority of the military respect the commander in chief and they believe in their mission. But, if you only watch CNN and liberal media, you will not hear from those soldiers. For every article from a liberal source you find that Bush did not listen to leaders, I can find one from a conservative source to counter. We will have to agree to disagree. I do not find this administration stubborn...I find this administration trying to stick to its guns so to speak, doing what is best in the long run for this country as far as countering terrorism. I know you do not understand nor want to understand the danger; however, I do. Every time Reid or Pelosi do something stupid, the liberal media lauds them as heroes and you can go right to the Arab news outlets and see how they pick it up and run with it. Al Qaeda must be lovin life right now. And that makes me SICK.

As to the half staff, talk about stubborness...I do not know and still do not understand why you cling to that as some kind of evidence that Bush doesn't care about the soldiers or people in Iraq, because he ordered a half staff for the VA Tech victims. And why you would say just because we have always done it that way... sheesh. Hanging onto this just screams at me that it is your problem with Bush personally and nothing else. I cannot see how you can find fault with the half staff and criticize the man for showing up at Va Tech. And..frankly...he cannot control what the governor said, but that being said...I do not understand the reaction of the left to it. But then I do not understand the reaction of the left to much of anything. I do not understand how you profess compassion for the Iraqi civilians yet want to cut and run and leave them to the terrorist thugs. That makes absolutely no sense to me. A President showing compassion for those kids at VA Tech, and you don't like that...what kind of sense does that make? The President shows compassion meeting with families of fallen soldiers, and if you look at him you can tell the toll this has all taken on him personally...if you took the time to look...not that you give a darn. I would like to say I understand you, but I don't. I used to think I did, but you have changed. It kinda reminds me of the at commercial I once saw that said: *You will be assimilated. Sadly, I believe you have been.


Who are these many soldiers?
I would be interested in knowing. I did not say you or anyone was Anti American...do not put words in my mouth. You used the word patriotic, I used it back to you. I said it was not illegal...and it is not. Congress voted for it. It is not illegal. If a soldier said it was immoral it is his right, like it is your right. However, when you talk about pulling funding when we have troops in battle, yes, I think that is unpatriotic, and if a soldier said we should pull funding, yes, I would say he was unpatriotic too. I have never heard a soldier say so. I have certainly never heard "many" soldiers call the war immoral either.
For the soldiers

As a tribute to our soldiers I felt a strong need to post this.  As a prior US Army soldier I was proud of my country when I served and I am proud of all our soldiers in today's Army, and proud of anyone who decides (past, present, and future), that they love our country so much and the freedoms it offers us to give their time to the military.  This is no small step.  Your whole life changes in the blink of an eye (or however long it takes you to sign your name) and you will never be the same again or look at things the same as you did before. 


The election recently has brought this to mind.  I can remember the times my mom sending me an absentee ballot to vote and when I turned it in to my First Sergeant he looked at it and said Soldiers do not have the right to vote.  You are a soldier in the Army and you will serve your country.  We were "An Army of One" and our individual viewpoints do not matter.  (When I joined J. Carter was president and this was the next election when Carter/Regan were running).  So I threw my ballot in the garbage and followed my First Sergeant's order as a soldier is trained to do.


I have been reading that 68% of our veterans support J. McCain and only 23% support B. Obama.  There is a post below that has an article that is focusing on only those 23%.  In any organization you are going to have disgruntled employees, but if you were trying to judge a company would you base your decision on the few disgruntled or what the company employees have to say as a whole about their company.


Here are what some of the veterans are saying about their choices (link will follow below to the actual article) - This is how many in the military feels. 


Most military will not vote for Obama, with every rule there is an exception but I personally know that the majority of the military will never vote for someone like him!


Because he is too inexperienced, and unfit to be the commander in chief of the Military!


His stance on foreign policy terrifies me!


He preaches change, but never says what that change will entail, but if you look at his record you can deduce that the change he talks about is a dumbed down version socialism, which sounds nice on paper but never works!


I’d much rather have a Commander in Chief who’s been in the military and one who knows what war is like, and McCain has 2 sons who are both in the Marine Corps and have fought in Iraq…


I’m sick of people telling me that they need to pull the troops out, when I am trying as hard as I can to rehabilitate and get back out there to finish the job! pulling us out would undo everything that we’ve worked for, everything that I sweat and bled for out there, everything that some very dear friends have died for! And by pulling us out you’d be saying that what we did didn’t amount to anything, and those lives lost were in vein.


There is a responsible way of pulling the troops out and there is an irresponsible way. If we just got pulled out of there then there would be a vacuum effect that would turn Iraq into more of a terrorist breeding ground than it ever was before, more so than even Afghanistan. And that would undo everything that we worked so hard to accomplish!!! I have been for this war from the very beginning, and even after facing death, being shot, and having all the surgeries I’ve had since I’ve been home I believe in the cause now more than ever. But even if you opposed the war to begin with we can’t abandon those people now it would be selfish, reckless, and utterly irresponsible to do so and would actually make things much worse for us in the long run.


I’m not the biggest McCain supporter there are many issues I don’t agree with him on but he at least understands all of this, he understands what we are going through over there, he understands combat, and he understands what is at stake in this war that the American people have seemingly abandoned and forgotten, not only our future but the future of an entire nation of people is at risk if we give in and pull out!


Some people don’t think it’s our responsibility to fight for other countries and stabilize their governments but as I’ve said before in previous blogs “It’s a good thing France didn’t have that attitude during our revolution, otherwise we never would have won our own Independence!!!”


Obama is not a competent Commander in Chief! You tell me what exactly he stands for???????? CHANGE? what the he!! is he gonna change? HOPE? what kind of hope? are you kidding me? he never says what the he!! he’s talking about, he just throws out what people want to hear but never provides a solution!!! Most people I talk to that say they’re gonna vote for him can’t even answer those questions, but they’re gonna vote for him because someone they know and respect says they are gonna vote for him! Why don’t you at least look into it yourself and make an educated decision! I can at least respect that! But that doesn’t seem to be the case in most people I’ve come across.


http://twana.wordpress.com/2008/09/08/veterans-against-obama/


One other note is that we need a person like McCain who will be workign towards winning the war and bring our troops home as the hero's they are.  Not Obama's idea of pulling them all out irresponsibly and then they'll end up like the soldier's after the Vietnam War.  They'll be called everything you can thing of (invader's, murderers, etc.).  They'll be treated the same exact way the soldier's were treated from the Vietnam War.


I pray for our troops every day, and will pray until the election is over the the right person (McCain), will win this election.


Do you actually know any soldiers?
Are you honestly suggesting that the soldiers who are on the front lines are less informed than you are?

You think you 'have more opportunity to see the big picture and the real motives behind it' than the men and women putting their lives on the line.

Lady, please get a grip.

Maybe go volunteer at a VA Hospital. Then perhaps you will stop preaching your uninformed views from your keyboard.
I am sure that our soldiers would sm
rather shoot these terrorists too. They can't, they have to do what they have to do to get information out of them.

I can think a whole lot worse I would do to them that would get the information out of them a whole lot faster. Think I will save that though.

Sounds like you want to create a military force of a bunch of "mamby pambies" who do nothing but make sure the terrorists/prisoners are so comfy in their little beds. Good grief should we sing them to sleep to?

What do you think they do to Americans when they capture them? A whole lot more than we ever do to them. Come down to reality will ya?
Not only will we not leave them with peace,

deficit in American history, caused by WHAT?


And I just love how anyone who doesn't agree with them is labeled as having no values.


What kind of values does someone have to take a healthy surplus upon entering office and not only SQUANDERING it but then going on to create the biggest deficit in American history?


What kind of values does someone have to send our children to an unnecessary war to die and/or be injured while neglecting to give them inadequate supplies?


What kind of values does someone have to send our children off to a foreign land to die for his own personal bogus war, when he was too much of a coward to serve in combat duty himself?


What kind of values does someone have to take the blood of 9/11 victims and the fear of all other Americans and USE it to wage a bogus war against Iraq when that was his goal before he was even elected President?


What kind of values does someone have to not care enough about securing or borders or our ports or protecting our airspace and chemical/nuclear plants and decreases the budget for rail and subway security?


What kind of values does someone have to have to neglect to develop enough smallpox vaccines FOUR YEARS after the worst attack in American history, when bio attacks using smallpox was felt to be a threat?


What kind of values does someone have to have to make sure that his huge war budget includes FREE comprehensive medical benefits for all Iraqi citizens while he presides over a country where many of his own citizens who work 40 hours or more a week can't even afford health insurance?


What kind of values does someone have to have to deny American scientists the opportunity to study stem cell research, using the argument that he wants to "protect life" when he presides over a country where our children are being routinely molested and MURDERED by animals who the government refuses to keep in jail? 


Out of all the talk on these boards about life being "precious" as it regards stem cell research, I have yet to see ONE SINGLE POST about the multitude of children that have been abducted, sexually abused and murdered in this country in the last six months.  What kind of values does someone have to have to care more about cells in a petrie dish than the children who are already here?


Those examples aren't values. Those examples do nothing but reflect the values that are ABSENT in an egotistical moron of a president who, at his very BEST, is nothing but DANGEROUS.


No problem. Peace to you. NM
...
I hope for peace
Well, Im gonna post more than I would normally about myself..sigh..Im Jewish (though not practicing)..so that kind of makes my heart, mind and soul a bit concerned and tied up with all this, however, I am an American first and foremost and what happens in Israel and Palestine, that is their concern.  I do not live there.  I see what is happening and frankly I agree with Sharon's decision.  It pains me cause I cannot believe how it would feel giving up a home after 30+ years or so..where are these people going to relocate..My heart truly is heavy for them.  I dont like Sharon, never have and I think his political life is quite over.  I think the land has to be shared by both Palestine and Israel.  Whatever decisions their leaders make, I as an American truly have no say.  Quite a few in Israel are fanatics, totally Orthodox.  My family, my friends, my ex, my boyfriend, we all look upon the Orthodox as kind of radical as can be.  If you dont agree, I invite you to visit New City in upstate NY or Borough Park in Brooklyn (many other areas too, of course, but these two areas are my *home areas*).  You will find extremely fanatical Jews who if you are not Orthodox Jew wouldnt even look your way or give you the time of day.  I think the situation between Israel and Palestine is quite complex, longstanding, for sure, and something we as Americans really dont understand.  A childhood friend of mine went to Israel after high school to join the Army.  She was an American citizen and did not have to.  She and I have had long discussions, believe me.  This is too complex a situation that has been going on for eons. When Sadat and Begin signed a peace accord, my heart was full of joy, I cried my eyes out.  My father was more leery.  The Middle East is a complex land and we as Americans really cannot understand all the turmoil, passion, pain, etc., that has occurred and is still occurring.  Sure, to debate it is fine but to make an absolute decision about how you feel.  Please keep an open mind.  All I hope for is peace in the Middle East and peace in America.
Can we keep the peace and also debate, please?
Here we go..how many days was there peace over here on the liberal board..three?  Five?  Oh geez..I did not generalize..I most certainly have seen many anti choice people screaming out against a womans right to choose about her body..all I was stating is I sure hope they are screaming also for the children who are lost in the system, living in horrible homes or group homes.  From what I can see, there are so many children waiting for adoption, in foster care. Lets help them FIRST..
I am sad you feel that way. Peace will sm
only come with justice. This is still very much an open wound for America, half of us that is.

It amazes me that Americans were gung-ho to spend 30 million investigating Clinton's famous BJ, yet do not question why only 1/4 of that amount was spent investigating 911 - a blow job was more important to America than 3,000 of its citizens murdered.

In the long run it has everything to do with peace
As it disrupts the global economy and the ability of this planet to feed its population it will have very much to do with peace.  Power struggles, especially over oil/food/usable land = wars, historically. 
The peace party......
and what ultimately might get us into a nuclear confrontation.
Peace offering up above.

We all love our country.  Let's focus on that.  No matter who wins, there is a lot of work to be done.


G'night.


Peace back at ya.

Peace? And Unity?
If peace and unity is what obama supporters are touting, well then heaven forbid anyone disagree or have different opinions.  That has been shown on these very boards today.  Peace and unity indeed.
Yes, our soldiers deserved better.

I think these are fallen soldiers...nm

soldiers votes
you know, on the news last evening, in a very mild manner, it was mentioned that maybe only 30% of the overseas military's votes will be counted this election, due to mail problems, time constraints, etc. OUTRAGEOUS!!! To boot, this also happened 4 yr ago, and still no one has fixed it (tho 1 senator is allegedly trying). Where are all the hanging chad type screaming complaints, the concern for the (hate this word now): disenfranchised????  IMO this would not be a hard problem to fix, so why is it still broke?  A soldier's vote should be most definitely counted, WITHOUT FAIL.  Grrrrrr.  not to mention, that in Ohio, reported also last night, the homeless can now list their park benches as their addresses, and vote.  Mind you, you cannot collect help in the form of welfare/food stamps etc without a solid normal address, but you can vote.  nevermind that the homeless are likely uninformed. (don't feed or house them, just give them a ballot and tell them who to vote for...) all the while, our military's votes are casually tossed aside, with an "oh well..."  i am still fuming the next day.
Tell that to the soldiers there who have heard
##
And you know this, how? Talk to the soldiers
We have several in our town who have been stationed down there and they will certainly tell you it scares the he!! out of them to see Obama is shutting Gitmo down. They personally have heard those incarcerated bragging about what has been done and laughing at the U.S. til the next attack when they heard Obama is closing it down.

Yea, why don't ya just feel sorry for all those poor guys down there, right up until the next attack!
Winter Soldiers

Short script on article of our war on terror - a sad commentary on what is really going on and how our soldiers are responding to it.......


http://www.truthout.org/031709A


Winter Soldiers Speak Out in Europe



by: Maya Schenwar, t r u t h o u t | Report




USPennsylvania before the Winter Solider hearings last March." src=http://www.truthout.org/files/images/A1_031709A.jpg>

US veterans march from Philadelphia to Valley Forge before the Winter Solider hearings last March. (Photo: Susie Husted)




    Last March, a group of soldiers and veterans gathered in Washington, DC, to recount their experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan. They spent three days testifying, confessing and mourning. They revealed atrocities never before spoken of - the brutal murders of civilians, the destruction of homes and villages, the rape and sexual assault of both civilians and US military women - and displayed photos and video footage to back up their claims. The event was titled "Winter Soldier," harkening back to the 1971 Winter Soldier Investigation, in which veterans gathered in Detroit to give testimony about war crimes they had committed or witnessed in Vietnam. Both Winter Soldiers zeroed in on the US military policy's devastating effects, straight from the mouths of those charged with carrying out that policy.


Full article excerpt can be found at:  http://www.truthout.org/031709A


    


and you can smoke your reefer in peace

Bush peace prize, LOL
I dont think any leader would try to invade America..unless, like what they are trying to do in Europe..create a European Union, band together as one.  Then one day..probably many years off, they just might be stronger than America or equal to America's strength.  I think things in the world would be much more stable with a fairer playing field..you know, countries just as strong as America who could keep a watch on our administrations who are too over-zealous.  Kind of makes me a little ashamed that our president was not nominated, that a *dictator revoluntary* got nominated..not that I would ever think Bush or his ilk would be nominated..The Noble Peace Prize does not nominate warmonger/chickenhawks..and I question the brainwashing of Americans that Chavez is so bad, such a *dictator, revoluntary*.  Maybe America needs a *revoluntary*, in ideology, of course (I am not suggesting strong arm tactics)  to get this country turned around on the right track.  However, the way America describes Chavez, I wonder if it is true..Gotta do some checking.  I know one of my *heros* was Che Guevara (even named one of my cats after him..smile)..and when you read the history of Che Guevara..He was a privileged person who became a doctor, saw the poverty and injustice and inequality in the world and became a revoluntary..and, of course, America had a hand in his assassination. 
Ann Wright, a Felon for Peace
Ann Wright: A Felon for Peace
    Tomdispatch Interview with Ann Wright

    Friday 11 November 2005

    She's just off the plane from Tulsa, Oklahoma, the cheapest route back from a reunion in the little Arkansas town where she grew up in the 1950s. For thirty years, she and her childhood friends have climbed to the top of Penitentiary Mountain, where the local persimmon trees grow, for a persimmon-spitting contest. (All in the great spirit of just having fun and being crazy.) She holds out her hands and says, I probably still have persimmon goop on me!

    We seat ourselves at a table in my dining room, two small tape recorders between us. She's dressed all in black with a bright green over-shirt, a middle-aged blond woman wearing gold earrings and a thin gold necklace. As she settles in, her sleeves pull back, revealing the jewelry she'd rather talk about. On her right wrist is a pink, plastic band. This one was to be a volunteer in the Astrodome for Hurricane Katrina. I did two days work there, then three days in Covington, Louisiana, the first week after. On her left wrist, next to a watch from another age, are two blue plastic bands: And this one, she says with growing animation, fingering the nearest of them, was my very first arrest of my whole life on September 26th in front of the White House with 400 of my closest friends. This is the bus number I was on and this is the arrest number they gave me and then, later on, I had to date it because now I have two. She fingers the second band. Last week 26 of us were arrested after a die-in right in front of the White House in commemoration of the two thousandth American and maybe one hundred thousandth Iraqi who died in this war. So now, she announces, chuckling heartily, I'm a felon for peace.

    When she speaks - and in the final g's she drops from words (It's freezin' in Mongolia!) - you can catch just a hint of the drawl of that long-gone child from Bentonville, Arkansas. In her blunt, straightforward manner, you can catch something of her 29 years in the Army; and in her ease perhaps, the 16 years she spent as a State Department diplomat. Animated, amused by her foibles (and those of her interviewer), articulate and thoughtful, she's just the sort of person you would want to defend - and then represent - your country, a task she continues to perform, after her own fashion, as one of the more out-of-the-ordinary antiwar activists of our moment.

    Last August, she had a large hand in running Camp Casey for Cindy Sheehan at the President's doorstep in Crawford, Texas; then again, that wasn't such a feat, given that in 1997 she had overseen the evacuation of 2,500 foreigners from the war zone that was then Sierra Leone, a harrowing experience for which she was given the State Department's Award for Heroism. That's why I joined the Foreign Service, she comments, her voice still filled with some residual excitement from those years. I wanted to go to places you wouldn't visit on vacation. In fact, the retired colonel opened and closed embassies from Africa to Uzbekistan and took some of the roughest diplomatic assignments on Earth, including the reopening of the American embassy in Kabul in December 2001.

    On March 19, 2003, the day before the first Cruise missiles were launched against Baghdad, she resigned from the Foreign Service in an open letter sent from the U.S. embassy in Mongolia (where she was then Deputy Chief of Mission) to Secretary of State Colin Powell. In it she wrote, in part:

    This is the only time in my many years serving America that I have felt I cannot represent the policies of an Administration of the United States. I disagree with the Administration's policies on Iraq, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, North Korea and curtailment of civil liberties in the U.S. itself. I believe the Administration's policies are making the world a more dangerous, not a safer, place. I feel obligated morally and professionally to set out my very deep and firm concerns on these policies and to resign from government service as I cannot defend or implement them.

    Once used to delivering official U.S. statements to other governments, she now says things like: Everyone should have to be handcuffed with the flexi-cuffs they use now and feel just how unflexible they are, just how they cut, and then imagine Iraqis, Afghans, and other people we pick up in them 24 hours a day. She relaxes, sits back, awaits the first question, and responds with gusto.

    Tomdispatch: I thought we'd start by talking about two important but quite different moments in your life. The first was not so long ago. Let me quote from a New York Times article on a recent Condoleezza Rice appearance before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. It was a day that echoed the anguish, anger and skepticism that opinion polls show have begun to dominate the thinking of Americans. The hearing was punctuated by a heckler who called for an end to the war, only to be hustled out. Now, I believe this was you.

    Ann Wright: [She chuckles.] Yes! Not a heckler, I was a protester.

    TD: Tell me about it.

    AW: It was as much a protest against the Senators as against Condoleezza Rice, because they were not holding our Secretary of State responsible. I picked up the Washington Post that morning and noticed that Condoleezza was going to testify on Iraq, and I thought, well, I'm free until noon. When I walked in, I was not planning on doing anything.

    But I sat there for two hours and Senators were saying: We've heard the administration is discussing a military option in Syria and perhaps Iran. The committee needs to be brought in on this, because we've only given you authorization for military action in Iraq. In an almost rude, dismissive tone, the Secretary of State essentially replied: We'll talk to you when we want to; all options are on the table; and thank you very much. Then the senators just kind of sat there. It was like: Come on, guys talk! Pin that woman down! We, the people, want to know. I want to know. And then they just started off on something else. It was like: No! Come back to this question. We don't want to go to war in Syria or Iran...

    TD: And did you stand up?

    AW: So I stood up. I was back in the peanut gallery. I've never done anything like it before in my whole life. I took a deep breath and went, Stop the killing! Stop the war! Hold this woman accountable! You, the Senate, were bamboozled by the administration on Iraq and you cannot be bamboozled again! Stop this woman from killing!

    At that point, I ran out of things to say because I hadn't really planned it. [She laughs.] I was looking around. There was only one police officer and he was just ambling toward me. It was like he enjoyed what I was saying. I thought, until he gets here I've got to say something more, so I went: You failed us in Iraq, you can't fail us on Syria! The police office finally said, Uh, ma'am, you've got to come with me. This is the first time - somebody told me later - anyone's ever seen a protester put her arm around a police officer. [She laughs.]

    TD: So you weren't hustled out?

    AW: Noooooo. It was a slow walk and there was silence in the room, so I thought: Well, I can't let this go by and I started another little rant on the way out. That part wasn't mentioned in the news reports.

    TD: At least some papers like the Washington Post mentioned you by name. The Times merely called you a heckler.

    AW: Well, how rude! I wasn't heckling anyway. I was speaking on behalf of the people of America.

    TD: This obviously takes you a long way from your professional life, because you were in the Foreign Service for...

    AW: Sixteen years...

    TD: ... and in all those years this would have been rather inconceivable.

    AW: Having testified at congressional hearings as a Foreign Service officer, particularly on Somalia issues back in '93 and '94, I was always humbled to go into those rooms as a government employee. I always found it interesting when people in the audience stood up to say something. You know, I learned later that most protestors do it in the first ten minutes because that's when the cameras and all the reporters are sure to be there.

    As it happened, the chairman of the committee declined to have me arrested. The police officer said, Well, if you're disappointed, I can arrest you. I replied, If you don't mind, I'll just run on over to my lunch appointment. I was actually on my way to a presentation by Larry Wilkerson, Colin Powell's former chief of staff, where he would describe the secrecy of the administration and the way the State Department was isolated by the White House and the National Security Council.

    TD: Another moment of protest, one I'm sure you thought about very carefully, took place the day before the shock-and-awe campaign against Iraq began. That day you sent a letter of public resignation to Colin Powell which began - and not many people could have written such a sentence - When I last saw you in Kabul in 2002...

    AW: Indeed I had volunteered to go to Kabul, Afghanistan in December 2001 to be part of a small team that reopened the U.S. embassy. It had been closed for twelve years. I have a background in opening and closing embassies. I helped open an embassy in Uzbekistan, closed and reopened an embassy in Sierra Leone. I've been evacuated from Somalia and Sierra Leone. And with my military background, I've worked in a lot in combat environments.

    I volunteered because I felt the United States needed to respond to the events of 9/11, and the logical place to go after al-Qaeda was where they trained, knowing full well that you probably weren't going to get a lot of people. The al-Qaeda group is very smart and few of them, in my estimation, would have been hanging out where we were most likely to go after them in Afghanistan. Actually, I was amazed the administration went in physically. I thought, like the Clinton administration, they would send in cruise missiles. Considering the severity of September 11, I guess the military finally said: Well, it looks like we're going into that hell-hole where the Russians got their butts whipped. Everybody knew it was going to be tough.

    TD: You've commented elsewhere that a crucial moment for you was watching the President's Axis of Evil State of the Union address from a bunker in Kabul.

    AW: A bunker outside the chancellery building meant to protect against the rockets the mujahedeen were sending against each other after they defeated the Soviets. We had taken [then interim leader] Hamid Karzai, who had been invited to the State of the Union, to Bagram Air Base and sent him off three days before. We told him, You've got to start getting together some detailed plans for economic development funds because the attention of the United States doesn't stay on any country for long; so, get your little fledgling cabinet moving fast. Well, the President started talking about other interests that the United States had after 9/11 and these interests were Iran, Iraq, and North Korea. Just as he said that, the cameras focused on Karzai and you could almost see him going: Hmmmm [she mugs a wince], now I know what they were telling me at the embassy. And we were sitting there thinking, Oh my God...

    TD: You had a functioning TV?

    AW: Barely. We had a satellite dish made of pounded-out coke cans - these were being sold down in Kabul - and a computer chip sent in from Islamabad, because we wanted to hear from Washington what was going to happen with Afghanistan. When, instead of talking much about Afghanistan, the President started in on this axis-of-evil stuff we were stunned. We were thinking: Hell's bells, we're here in a very dangerous place without enough military. So for the President to start talking about this axis of evil... everyone in the bunker just went: Oh Christ, here we go! No wonder we're not getting the economic development specialists in here yet. If the American government was going after al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, and clearing out the Taliban and preparing to help the people of Afghanistan, why the hell was it taking so long? Well, that statement said it all.

    TD: Did you at that moment suspect a future invasion of Iraq?

    AW: I'm a little naïve sometimes. I really never, ever suspected we would go to war in Iraq. There was no attempt at that moment to tie 9/11 to Iraq, so it didn't even dawn on me.

    Anyway, that was the preface to my letter of resignation. I wanted to emphasize that I had seen Colin Powell on his first trip to Kabul. I wanted to show that this was a person who had lots of experience.

    TD: In the whole Vietnam era, few, if any, government officials offered public resignations of protest, but before the invasion of Iraq even began, three diplomats - Brady Kiesling, John Brown, and yourself - resigned in a most public fashion. It must have been a wrenching decision.

    AW: I had been concerned since September 2002 when I read in the papers that we had something like 100,000 troops already in the Middle East, many left behind after the Bright Star [military] exercise we have every two years in Egypt. I thought: Uh-oh, the administration is doing some sneaky-Pete stuff on us. They were claiming they wanted UN inspectors to go back into Iraq, when a military build-up was already underway. It's one thing to put troops in the region for pressure, but if you're leaving that many behind, you're going to be using them. Then, as the mushroom-cloud rhetoric started getting stronger, it was like: Good God! These guys mean to go to war, no matter what the evidence is.

    By November, I was having trouble sleeping. I would wake up at three, four in the morning - this was in Mongolia where it was freezing cold - wrap up in blankets, go to the kitchen table, and just start pouring my soul out. By the time I finally sent that resignation letter in, I had a stack of drafts like this. [She lifts her hand a couple of feet off the table.] I did know two others had resigned, but quite honestly I hadn't read their letters and I didn't know them.

    TD: You were ending your life in a way, life as you had known it...

    AW: Thirty-five years in the government between my military service and the State Department, under seven administrations. It was hard. I liked representing America.

    TD: Was there a moment when you knew you couldn't represent this government anymore?

    AW: I kept hoping the administration would go back to the Security Council for its authorization to go to war. That's why I held off until virtually the bombs were being dropped. I was hoping against hope that our government would not go into what really is an illegal war of aggression that meets no criteria of international law. When it was finally evident we were going to do so, I said to myself: It ain't going to be on my watch.

    TD: Was it like crossing a border into a different world?

    AW: It was a great relief. During the lead-up to war, I had begun showing symptoms of an impending heart attack. The State Department put me on a medivac flight to Singapore for heart tests. The doctors said, Lady, you're as strong as a horse. Are you just under some kind of stress? Yes, I am! The moment I sent in that letter, it was like a great burden had been lifted from my shoulders. At least I had made my stand and joined the other two who had resigned.

    TD: And what of those you left behind?

    AW: In the first couple of days, while I was still in Mongolia, I received over 400 emails from colleagues in the State Department saying: We're so sad you're not going to be with us, but we're so proud of the three of you who resigned because we think this going-to-war is just so horrible; then each one would describe how anti-American feeling was growing in the country where they were serving. It was so poignant, all those emails.

    TD: Why don't you think more people in the government - and in the military where there's clearly been opposition to Iraq at a very high level - quit and speak out?

    AW: There were a few. [General] Eric Shinseki talked about the shortchanging of the [Iraq] operations plan by a couple of hundred thousand people. He was forced out. But see, in the military, in the Foreign Service, you're not supposed to be speaking your own mind. Your job is to implement the policies of an administration elected by the people of America. If you don't want to, your only option is to resign. I understood that and that's one of the reasons I resigned - to give myself the freedom to talk out.

    There are a lot of people still in government service speaking out, but you've got to read between the lines. The senior military leaders in Iraq, what they've been saying is very different from what Donald Rumsfeld and the gang in Washington say. These guys are being honest and truthful about the lack of Iraqi battalions really ready for military work, the dangers the troops are under, the days when the military doesn't go out on the streets. They're signaling to America: We're up a creek on this one, guys, and you, the people of America, are going to have to help us out.

    TD: ...Let's talk about [Colin Powell's chief of staff] Larry Wilkerson as an example. He assumedly left after the election when Colin Powell did, so almost a year has passed. He saw what he believed was a secret cabal running the government and it took him that long after he was gone to tell us about it. I'm glad he spoke out. But I wonder why there isn't a more urgent impulse to do so?

    AW: If you look at Dick Clarke [the President's former chief adviser on terrorism on the National Security Council], he had all the secrets from the very beginning and he retired in January 2003. Yet he didn't say anything for over a year and a half, until he published that book [Against All Enemies] in 2004. If he had gone public before the war started, that man could have told us those same secrets right then. So could [the National Security Council's senior director for combating terrorism] Randy Beers. I worked with both of them on Somalia, on Sierra Leone. I know these guys personally and it's like: Guys, why didn't you come forward then?

    As you probably know, on the key issues of the first four years of the Bush administration, the State Department was essentially iced out. I mean, look at the Iraq War. Colin Powell and the State Department were just shoved aside and all State's functions put into the Department of Defense. Tragically, Colin Powell, who was trying to counsel Donald Rumsfeld behind the scenes that there weren't enough troops in Iraq, never stood up to say, Hold it, guys, I'll resign if we don't get this under control so that logical functions go in logical organizations and you, the Defense Department, don't do post-combat civil reconstruction stuff. That's ours. He just didn't do it. To me, he was more loyal to the Bush family than he was to the country. His resignation was possibly the one thing that could have deterred the war. Then the people of America would really have looked closely at what was going on. But tragically he decided loyalty to the administration was more valuable than loyalty to the country. I mean, it breaks my heart to say that, but it's what really happened.

    TD: So what is it that actually holds people back?

    AW: I think the higher up you go, the more common it is for people to retire, or maybe even resign, and not say what the reasons are, because they may hope to get back into government in a different administration. Dick Clarke had served every administration since George Washington and maybe he was looking toward being called back as a political appointee again. Sometimes such people don't speak out because they feel loyalty to the person who appointed them. Nobody appointed me to nothin', except the American people. I'm a career foreign service officer and I serve the American people. When an administration wasn't serving the best interests of the American people, I felt I had to stand up.

    TD: And are you now pretty much a full-time antiwar activist?

    AW: [She laughs.] That's the way it's turned out.

    TD: What, if anything, do you think your military career, your State Department career, and this... well, I can't call it a career... have in common?

    AW: Service to America. It's all just a continuation of a real concern I have about my country.

    TD: And what would you say to your former compatriots still in the military and the State Department?

    AW: Many of the emails I received from Foreign Service officers said, I wish I could resign right now, but I've got kids in college, I've got mortgages, and I'm going to try really hard, by staying, to ameliorate the intensity of these policies. All I can say is that they must be in agony about not being able to affect policy. There have been plenty of early retirements by people who finally realized they couldn't moderate the policies of the Bush administration.

    TD: What message would you send to the person you once were from the person you are now?

    AW: You trained me well.

    TD: If in this room you had the thirty-five year-old woman about to go into Grenada, as you did back in 1983, what would you want her to mull over.

    AW: I would say: You were a good Army officer and Foreign Service officer. You weren't blind to the faults of America. In many jobs, you tried to rectify things that were going badly and you succeeded a couple of times. My resignation wasn't the first time I spoke out. For instance, I was loaned, or seconded, from the State Department to the staff of the United Nations operation in Somalia and ended up writing a memo concerning the military operations the UN was conducting to kill a warlord named Addid. They started taking helicopters, standing off, and just blowing up buildings where they had intelligence indicating perhaps he was there. Well, tragically he never was, and here we were blowing up all these Somali families. Of course the Somalis were outraged and that outrage ultimately led to Blackhawk Down.

    I wrote a legal opinion to the special representative of the Secretary General, saying the UN operations were illegal and had to stop. It was leaked to the Washington Post and I got in a bit of hot water initially, but ultimately my analysis proved correct. I was also a bit of a rabble-rouser on the utilization of women in the military back in the eighties, part of a small group of women who took on the Army when it was trying to reduce the career potentials of women. I ended up getting right in the thick of some major problems which ultimately cost the Army millions of dollars in the reassessment of units that had been given incorrect direct-combat probability codings. I was also part of a team which discovered that some of our troops had been looting private homes in Grenada. The Army court-martialed a lot of our soldiers for this violation of the law of land warfare. We used their example in rewriting how you teach the code of conduct and, actually, the Geneva Convention on the responsibility of occupiers.

    TD: You know a good deal about the obligations of an occupying power to protect public and private property, partially because in the 1980s you were doing planning on the Middle East, right?

    AW: Yes, from 1982 to 1984, I was at Fort Bragg, North Carolina when the Army was planning for potential operations using the Rapid Deployment Force - what ultimately became the Central Command. One of the first forces used in rapid deployment operations was the 82 Airborne at Fort Bragg. I was in the special operations end of it with civil affairs. Those are the people who write up the annexes to operations plans about how you interact with the civilian population, how you protect the facilities - sewage, water, electrical grids, libraries. We were doing it for the whole Middle East. I mean, we have operations plans on the shelf for every country in the world, or virtually. So we did one on Iraq; we did one on Syria; on Jordan, Egypt. All of them.

    We would, for instance, take the UNESCO list of treasures of the world and go through it. Okay, any in Iraq? Yep. Okay, mark 'em, circle 'em on a map, put 'em in the op-plan. Whatever you do, don't bomb this. Make sure we've got enough troops to protect this. It's our obligation under the law of land warfare. We'd be circling all the electrical grids, all the oil grids, all the museums. So for us to go into Iraq and let all that looting happen. Well, Rumsfeld wanted a light, mobile force, and screw the obligations of treaties. Typical of this administration on any treaty thing. Forget 'em.

    So everything was Katy-bar-the-door. Anybody could go in and rip up anything. Many of the explosives now being used to kill our troops come from the ammo dumps we did not secure. It was a total violation of every principle we had for planning military operations and their aftermath. People in the civil affairs units, they were just shaking their heads, wondering how in the hell this could have happened. We've been doing these operations plans forever, so I can only imagine the bitchin' and moanin' about - how come we don't have this civilian/military annex? It's in every other op-plan. And where are the troops, where are the MPs?

    TD: If back in the early eighties you were planning to save the antiquities of every country in the Middle East, then obviously the Pentagon was also planning for a range of possible invasions in the region. Do you look back now and ask: What kind of a country has contingency plans to invade any country you can imagine?

    AW: One of the things you are likely to do at a certain point in your military career is operations plans. It did not then seem abnormal to me at all that we had contingency plans for the Middle East, or for countries in the Caribbean or South America. At that stage, I was not looking at the imperialism of the United States. I just didn't equate those contingency plans with empire-building goals. However, depending on how those plans are used, they certainly can be just that. Remember as well that this was in the days of the Cold War and, by God, that camouflaged a lot of stuff. You could always say: You never can tell what those Soviets are going to do, so you better be prepared anywhere in the world to defeat them.

    TD: And we're still prepared anywhere in the world...

    AW: Well, we are and now, let's see, where are the Russians? [She laughs heartily.]

    TD: Tell me briefly the story of your life.

    AW: I grew up in Arkansas, just a normal childhood. I think the Girl Scouts was a formative organization for me. It had a plan to it, opportunity to travel outside Arkansas, good goals - working on those little badges. Early State Department. Early military too. It's kind of interesting, the militarization of our society, how we don't really think of some things, and yet when I look back, there I was a little Girl Scout in my green uniform, and so putting on an Army uniform after college wasn't that big a deal. I'd been in a uniform before and I knew how to salute, three fingers. [She demonstrates.]

    If you look, we now have junior ROTC in the high schools. We have child soldiers in America. We're good at getting kids used to those uniforms. And then there's the militarization of industries and corporations, the necessity every ten years to have a war because we need a new generation of weaponry. Corporations in the military-industrial complex are making lots of money off of new types of weaponry and vehicles.

    TD: While you were in the military, did you have any sense that these wars were actually living weapons labs?

    AW: Particularly seeing the privatization after Gulf War I, going into Somalia. All of a sudden, as fast as military troops were arriving, you had Halliburton and Kellogg, Brown, and Root in Somalia. They started saying, You need mess halls, oh, we'll do the mess halls for you. And it turned out they had staged a lot of their equipment in the Middle East after the Gulf War. So it was in Somalia lickety-split. The privatization of military functions is now so pervasive that the military can no longer function by itself, without the contractors and corporations. These contractors, these mercenaries really, are now fundamentally critical to the operations of the U.S. military.

    TD: So a Girl Scout and...

    AW: In my junior year at the University of Arkansas, a recruiter came through town with the film, Join the Army, See the World. I had been an education major for three years. Nurse, teacher, those were the careers for women. I didn't want any of it. So, in the middle of the Vietnam War, I signed up to go to a three-week Army training program, just to see if I liked it. And I found it challenging. Even though there were protests going on all over America, I divorced myself from what the military actually did versus what opportunities it offered me. I hated all these people getting killed in Vietnam, but I said to myself: I'm not going to kill anyone and I'm taking the place of somebody who will be able to go do something else. All these arguments that... now you look at it and go: Oh my God, what did you do?

    TD: Don't you think this happens now?

    AW: Absolutely! I sympathize with the people in the military right now. The majority didn't sign up to kill anybody. You always prayed that, whatever administration it was, it didn't go off on some wild goose chase that got you into a war you personally thought was really stupid.

    TD: Would you counsel a young woman now to go into the military?

    AW: I think we will always have a military and I think the military is honorable service as long as the civilian leadership uses it in appropriate ways and is very cautious about sending us to war. And yes, I would encourage people to look at a military career, but I would also tell them that, if they're sent to do something they think is wrong, they don't have to stay in, though they may have to take some consequences for saying, Thank you very much but I'm not going to kill anybody.

    In fact, if I were recalled to active duty, which is possible... I put myself purposely at the Retired Ready Reserve so that, if there was ever an emergency and my country needed me, I could be recalled, and in fact there are people my age, 59, who are agreeing to be recalled. The ultimate irony would be resigning from my career in the diplomatic corps and then having the Bush administration recall me, because my specialty, civil affairs, reconstruction, is in really short supply. I'm a colonel. I know how to run battalions and brigades. I can do this stuff. But I would have to tell them, sorry, I refuse to be placed on active duty. And if they push hard enough, then I'd just have to be court-martialed and I'd go to Leavenworth. I will not serve this administration in the Iraq war which I firmly believe is an illegal war of aggression.

    TD: You know, if someone had said to me back in the 1960s that a Vice President of the United States might go to Congress to lobby for a torture exemption for the CIA the way Dick Cheney has done, I would have said: This couldn't happen. Never in American history. I'm staggered by this.

    AW: Me, too. The other thing that's quite interesting is the number of women who are involved in it. There were something like eighty women I've identified, ranging from high officers to CIA contractors being used as interrogators in Guantanamo. Talking about things that will come back to bite us big time, this is it. And we are complicit, all of us, because, quite honestly, we're not standing out in front of the White House every single day, and every time that Vice President leaves throwing our bodies in front of his car, throwing blood on it. We need to get tough with these guys. They're not listening to us. They think we're a bunch of wimps. We've got to get tougher and tougher with them to show them we're not going to put up with this stuff.

    TD: You've quoted Teddy Roosevelt as saying: To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. I was particularly struck by that word servile. Do you want to talk about dissent for a moment?

    AW: Well, we shouldn't be hesitant about voicing our opinions, even in the most difficult of times which generally is when your nation is going to war and you're standing up to say, this isn't right. That's tough and, in fact, the first couple of months after I resigned, oh man, all that TV and nothing on but the war, and very few people wanted to hear me. It probably was a good four months before anybody even asked me to come speak about why I had dissented, and that was a little lonely. [She chuckles.]

    TD: Any final thoughts?

    AW: We now have a two-and-a-half-year track record of being a very brutal country. We are the cause of the violence in Iraq. That violence will continue as long as we're there, and the administration maintains that we will be there until we win. That means to me that this administration is planning for a long-term siege in Iraq. It means that young men and women in America should be prepared for the draft because the military right now cannot support what this administration wants. In fact, yesterday I was talking to about ninety high school seniors in Fayetteville, Arkansas, a very Republican part of the United States. I said: Your parents may support this war, but how strongly do you feel about it? If it drags on for years and there's a draft, how many of you will willingly go? Only three put up their hands.

    We are continuing down a very dangerous road. The United States and its citizenry are held in disdain in world opinion for not being able to stop this war machine. So one of the things I'm doing is ratcheting up my own level of response. A dear friend, Joe Palambo, a Vietnam veteran in Veterans for Peace who went to hear the President in Norfolk when he talked about terrorism, was recently cited in the newspapers this way: There was one protestor in the second row of the audience who stood up and railed against the President, saying: You're the terrorist! This war is a war of terrorism! Joe called me right after that happened and said, Hey, Ann, I heard what you did in the Senate and I thought, I'm going to go do the same thing to the President.

    I mean, we're going to dog these guys all over the country. Our Secretary of State, our Secretary of Defense, our Vice President, our President, our National Security Adviser, the head of the CIA, any of these people who are the warmongers, who are the murderers in the name of our country, wherever they go, the people of America need to stand up to them to say, No! Stop! Stop this war. Stop this killing. Get us out of this mess. Because that's the only time they hear it, when we stand up in these venues. They don't come out to the street in front of the White House to see the hundreds of thousands of people who are protesting. They ignore that. But for those fifteen seconds, if you can stand up so that everybody in that audience sees that there's one person, or maybe even two or three... Who knows?


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Jewish Voices For Peace
Not all jews agree with this latest Israeli/Bush aggression, myself included.  Check out the web site Jewish Voices For Peace.Org.
Jewish Voice For Peace
It is Jewish Voice For Peace.Org, not Jewish Voices For Peace as I previously posted.  Sorry.