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Jewish Voice For Peace

Posted By: Liberal2 on 2006-08-19
In Reply to:

It is Jewish Voice For Peace.Org, not Jewish Voices For Peace as I previously posted.  Sorry.


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Jewish Voices For Peace
Not all jews agree with this latest Israeli/Bush aggression, myself included.  Check out the web site Jewish Voices For Peace.Org.
There's an old Jewish saying. TI
Prepare yourself with truth before you argue.  You speak about debate, but I haven't seen any real debate here.  A lot of hysteria.  A lot of disinformation.  No debate.  Israel is not an ally because we haven't sent troops to Iraq. When I finished laughing about that, I had to be disturbed from the lack of real knowledge among you.  You get all your facts from news sources, I am guessing most of them partisan. I am not only speaking to you but to other posters here.  You give yourselves names like Liberal and Democrat and you speak from political points and not humanity.  There is no humanity in your words.  You have no idea what goes on in Israel.  Unless you are there or have lived and breathed there, or know what the struggles are from minute to minute, you know only what you read.  That is the truth.  My Jooish friends and I won't bother to educate you.  You already know everything and my time here is wasted.  It's a big contest about who can paste here articles they find that say what they want.  Whether they be true or no.  Les enfants israeliens meurent aussi.
I didn't say because you were Jewish
I said it's not right to think that Christianity should be taken out of everything just because you don't agree.

And you did say that you are getting "Christian things shoved down your throat" everywhere. Usually when you say something is shoved down your throat it means you take offense to it.

I have a serious question to ask you though - do you not believe in Jesus? If not, what is the reasoning as far as you are concerned for getting into heaven? I mean what are the requirements from a Jewish point of view? I'm asking this in all honesty, not sarcastically or anything like that.
Not all Jewish grandparents think the way you do
@@
Republican Jewish Ad

What's with all this hating of the Jews, anyway?  Sickening!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq9u3GRa97w


So, gt, are YOU the Jewish expert on this board. sm
So what are your thoughts on Gaza and it's historical and Biblical significance?  Do you think Egypt will encroach upon the left bank?  How about Hamas and their recent aggressive actions.  Do you think they will rebuilt Gaza?   What do you think about the relocation of the Gaza settlers?  What is the significance of losing Gaza?   Do you think the Arabs will uphold their part of the peace agreement, and if so, why?   Don't you think Sharon is doomed as far as ever being reelected.  Netinyahu is pretty steamed as are most Israeli.  Do you think they should vote him back in?   Tell us your thoughts.
try this Republican Jewish Coalition

Not sure why it didn't show up.  When I clicked on it here, it worked. 


http://www.rjchq.org/Multimedia/multimediadetail.aspx?id=0c46d45c-b77a-47de-ac9c-b618e36b39b8


I also just googled RJC, so this is another alternative.  Look for the "see our new tv ad."   ...and much more.  I'm glad I signed up for it.


Republican Jewish Coalition


Obama pressures Philly area synagogue to drop RJC Rrepresentative from a ... The RJC has launched a new series of ads raising critical issues for the Jewish ...
www.rjchq.org/ - 44k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this














 


Replace Republican with Jewish and think...
Germany. Do you really hate a group of people that much? Really?? That you want to go down the marxist path of quashing or belitting any kind of dissent or disagreement? I thought liberals were all about the right to dissent! Oh...what on earth am I thinking? They are for THEIR right to dissent and dam* anyone who doesn't agree with them.
Does really need to be said that Israel is predominantly Jewish?

When I speak of Israel, I speak of the Jews. 


 


You Said:  "And yes, I did bring Hitler into the conversation.  He systematically tied to wipe out a group of people, which is exactly what Israel is doing right now."


That statement is exactly what makes you anti-Semitic.  The fact that you can compare Israel to Nazi Germany is obscene and anti-Semitic.  You are using something horrific done to the Jews (who make up 75% or more of the Israeli population) and using it to illustrate what you perceive is going on in the Gaza Strip.  Can you not find some other means to make your point other than conjuring up prejudice perpetrated by Hitler?  Could you have maybe made your comparison to Kosovo/Bosnia?  Nope, you chose the holocaust to illustrate your point.  You intent was to shock and to be controversial.  You wanted to provoke a reaction. 


What exactly did you think using the name "Hitler" would provoke?  You argument in and of itself is anti-Semitic. 


By the way, I am a messianic Jew.  I know a little bit about anti-Semitism.  So before you continue to insult both my intelligence and my homeland, choose your words wisely.


I was quoting from a Jewish website publication.
It wasn't "my statement."  And it made perfect sense if you had read the article.  The Gaza strip pull-out was not instigated by the settlers who were moved but by their government which is ISRAELI and is therefore JEWISH.  You should read the news a little more. 
Arresting officer, who is Jewish, took no offense. sm

He pretty much said what I did below.


Arresting Deputy Didn’t Want To ‘Defame’ Gibson

‘I don’t take pride in hurting Mr. Gibson’ says officer, who is Jewish

MSNBC
The Associated Press
Updated: 7:56 p.m. PT July 31, 2006

Excerpt:

CALABASAS, Calif. - The deputy who arrested Mel Gibson on suspicion of drunken driving said Monday that he feels bad for damage to the star’s reputation but hopes Gibson thinks twice before drinking and getting behind the wheel.

James Mee, a Los Angeles County sheriff’s deputy, told the Associated Press that he considered it a routine arrest and didn’t take seriously any comments that Gibson made.

Gibson reportedly unleashed an anti-Semitic tirade and made other offensive comments when he was pulled over, initially for speeding, early Friday along the Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu. He was then arrested on suspicion of driving under the influence of alcohol.

Gibson has issued a public apology for his conduct without specifying what he said or did.

“I don’t take pride in hurting Mr. Gibson,” said Mee, a 17-year deputy who is Jewish. “What I had hoped out of this is that he would think twice before he gets behind the wheel of a car and was drinking. ... I don’t want to ruin his career. I don’t want to defame him in any way or hurt him.”

*snip*

TMZ reported that Gibson said, “The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world,” and asked the arresting officer, “Are you a Jew?”

In the interview outside his home, Mee would not comment specifically on what Gibson said.

“That stuff is booze talking,” the deputy said. “There’s two things that booze does. It amplifies your basic personality. If you are a laid-back kind of person, just an easygoing kind of person, booze is going to amplify that and you’ll be just sitting around going how it’s a wonderful day.


Linked to a Jewish blog? I assume someone from sm
the conservative board did that. I am opposed to war and weep for all victims of war. My criticism is aimed at the state-nations responsible for them, including my own.
Who belittled Kfir's Jewish beliefs?

I might be missing something here but I can't find posts by Kfir discussing her Jewish faith.  It was all about the war.  It was about the state of Israel not about the Jewish religion.  Isn't that 2 different things?


If you're Jewish why are you posting in French instead of Hebrew?

Les enfants israeliens meurent aussi.


And yes, Israeli children die, as well.  But many more Lebanese children died at your hands.


http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N15364953.htm


Citing U.N. statistics, the IMC said more than 300 children were killed in Lebanon and 1,000 wounded while a further half million youngsters were displaced by battles between Hizbollah guerrillas and Israeli forces in southern Lebanon.



The Israeli Foreign Ministry names eight Israeli children killed by Hizbollah rockets, including two 18-year olds. The total Israeli death toll is estimated at more than 150. It is unclear how many Israeli children were wounded.


Do you agree with this analysis of Jewish abortion stance? sm
Jewish beliefs and practice not neatly match either the "pro-life" nor the "pro-choice" points of view. The general principles of modern-day Judaism are that:

The fetus has great value because it is potentially a human life. It gains "full human status at birth only." 2

Abortions are not permitted on the grounds of genetic imperfections of the fetus.

Abortions are permitted to save the mother's life or health.

With the exception of some Orthodox authorities, Judaism supports abortion access for women.

"...each case must be decided individually by a rabbi well-versed in Jewish law." 5


Historical Christianity has considered "ensoulment," the point at which the soul enters the body) as the time when abortions should normally be prohibited. Belief about the timing of this event has varied from the instant of fertilization of the ovum, to 90 days after conception, or later. There has been no consensus among historical Jewish sources about when ensoulment happens. It is regarded as "one of the 'secrets of God' that will be revealed only when the Messiah comes."

Jewish family flees Delaware school district's aggressive Christianity

This is terrible.  :-(















Jewish family flees Delaware school district's aggressive Christianity


by JewsOnFirst.org, June 28, 2006

Note: On July 11th, we posted two follow-up reports, which you can find here. And on August 23rd, we posted another update here.

Links to articles and documents cited in our report appear immediately below it

A large Delaware school district promoted Christianity so aggressively that a Jewish family felt it necessary to move to Wilmington, two hours away, because they feared retaliation for filing a lawsuit. The religion (if any) of a second family in the lawsuit is not known, because they're suing as Jane and John Doe; they also fear retaliation. Both families are asking relief from state-sponsored religion.

The behavior of the Indian River School District board suggests the families' fears are hardly groundless.

The district spreads over a considerable portion of southern Delaware. The families' complaint, filed in federal court in February 2005, alleges that the district had created an environment of religious exclusion and unconstitutional state-sponsored religion.

Among numerous specific examples in the complaint was what happened at plaintiff Samantha Dobrich's graduation in 2004 from the district's high school. She was the only Jewish student in her graduating class. The complaint relates that local pastor, Jerry Fike, in his invocation, followed requests for our heavenly Father's guidance for the graduates with:

I also pray for one specific student, that You be with her and guide her in the path that You have for her. And we ask all these things in Jesus' name.

In addition to the ruined graduation experience, the Dobrich-Doe lawsuit alleges that:


  • The district's custom and practice of school-sponsored prayer was frequently imposed on impressionable non-Christian students, which violated their constitutional rights.
  • The district ignored the Supreme Court's 1992 Lee decision limiting prayer at graduation ceremonies -- even after a district employee complained about the prayer at her child's 2003 graduation..
  • District teachers and staff led Bible clubs at several schools. Club members got to go to the head of the lunch line.
  • While Bible clubs were widely available, student book clubs were rare and often canceled by the district.
  • When Jane Doe complained that her non-Christian son Jordan Doe was left alone when his classmates when to Bible club meetings, district staff insisted that Jordan should attend the club, regardless of his religion.
  • The district schools attended by Jordan and his sister Jamie Doe distributed Bibles to students in 2003, giving them time off from class to pick up the books.
  • Prayer --often sectarian -- is a routine part of district sports programs and social events
  • One of the district's middle schools gave students the choice of attending a special Bible Club if they did not want to attend a lesson on evolution.
  • A middle school teacher told students there was only one true religion and gave them pamphlets for his surfing ministry.
  • Samantha Dobrich's honors English teacher frequently discussed Christianity, but no other religion.
  • Students frequently made mandatory appearances at district board meetings -- where they were a captive audience for board members' prayers to Jesus.

The Dobriches said the prayers to Jesus' ruined the graduation experience for Samantha. Mona Dobrich, Samantha's mother, repeatedly called district officials to complain. A board member told her she would have to get the matter put on a meeting agenda -- then refused to put it on the agenda. The school superintendent slipped the topic onto the agenda and then told Mona Dobrich she would need to raise it during the public comment period.

School board unyielding
The board opened the June 15, 2004 meeting at which Dobrich was prepared to speak with a prayer in Jesus' name. The board was not forthcoming to her request that official prayers be in God's name rather than in Jesus' name. The high school athletic director veered from his agenda topic to encourage the board to keep praying in Jesus' name.

Board member Donald Hattier followed Dobrich out and offered to compromise by keeping graduation free of prayers to Jesus. And, according to the complaint, he warned her not to hire a lawyer.

A large crowd turned out for the next board meeting and many people spoke in support of school prayer. Mona Dobrich spoke passionately of her own outsider experience as a student in Indian River District schools and of how hard she'd worked to make sure her children didn't also feel like outsiders.

Hattier again approached her after the meeting. This time, the complaint alleges, he told her he'd spoken with the Rutherford Institute, a religious right legal group.

Talk show calls out a mob
The district board announced the formation of a committee to develop a religion policy. And the local talk radio station inflamed the issue.

On the evening in August 2004 when the board was to announce its new policy, hundreds of people turned out for the meetng. The Dobrich family and Jane Doe felt intimidated and asked a state trooper to escort them.

The complaint recounts that the raucous crowd applauded the board's opening prayer and then, when sixth-grader Alexander Dobrich stood up to read a statement, yelled at him: take your yarmulke off! His statement, read by Samantha, confided I feel bad when kids in my class call me Jew boy.

A state representative spoke in support of prayer and warned board members that the people would replace them if they faltered on the issue. Other representatives spoke against separating god and state.

A former board member suggested that Mona Dobrich might disappear like Madalyn Murray O'Hair, the atheist whose Supreme Court case resulted in ending organized school prayer. O'Hair disappeared in 1995 and her dismembered body was found six years later.

The crowd booed an ACLU speaker and told her to go back up north.

In the days after the meeting the community poured venom on the Dobriches. Callers to the local radio station said the family they should convert or leave the area. Someone called them and said the Ku Klux Klan was nearby.

Killing Christ
Classmates accused Alex Dobrich of killing Christ and he became fearful about wearing his yarmulke, the complaint recounts. He took it off whenever he saw a police officer, fearing that the officer might see it and pull over his mother's car. When the family went grocery shopping, the complaint says, Alexander would remove the pin holding his yarmulke on his head for fear that someone would grab it and rip out some of his hair.

The Dobriches refinanced their home so that Mona and Alexander could move to Wilmington, away from a situation that had become untenable, according to the complaint; Marco stayed behind because of his job, .

Ultimately, it continues, the expense of two households forced the Dobriches to sell their home. And Samantha was forced to withdraw from the joint program she attended at Columbia University and the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York. She is being treated for depression.

The lawsuit states that the Doe family wants to remain anonymous in order to avoid the retaliation experienced by the Dobrich family. Jordan and Jane Doe are also suffering from depression related to their opposition with the Indian River School District's religion policy.

Elusive religion policy
Even after Mona and Alexander Dobrich moved to Wilmington, the family and its lawyers continued to request the district's policy on religion in the schools and to ask for meetings with the board. Their requests were stonewalled, so in February 2005 they filed suit.

In a statement issued through her attorneys and quoted by the Delaware Wave, Mona Dobrichexplained why the families were suing: We are not trying to remove God from the schools or the public square. We simply don't think it is right for the district to impose a particular religious view on impressionable students.

The families seek to recover damages and to compel changes in the school district's policy.

That policy, however, remains elusive.

At the request of a board member soon after the infamous graduation, the Rutherford Institute, prepared a prayer policy for the school board, according to the complaint. In October 2004 the board reportedly adopted a new policy on religion in response to the Dobrich's complaint.

It is unclear if that policy is the one prepared by the Rutherford Institute -- because no one has seen it. The Dobrich's complaint states that the policy was unavailable and when the families requested it the district told them to file a freedom of information request.

This June, the board had a reading of a proposed change in the unseen policy. They said the policy and its changes would be posted on their website, (www.irsd.net) but on June 27th, it was nowhere to be found among several dozen policy documents.

The Rutherford Institute enters the fray
At the boisterous August 2004 district board meeting, the head of the Rutherford Institute, John Whitehead, urged the board to set an example for other schools, according to the Daily Times, a local paper.

A Rutherford affiliated lawyer, Thomas Neuberger, came into the case representing one of the school board members. Before he left the case last August (because the judge dismissed the individual board members from the case), Neuberger was reportedly feuding with other lawyers.

While he was in the case, his client, Reginald L. Helms reportedly admitted one of the lawsuit's allegations: that school officials invited Pastor Fike to the 2004 graduation. That undermined the district's claim that students chose the speakers.

Neuberger was quoted by the Delaware Wave newspaper denying that the Dobrich's son Alex was taunted as a Jew by classmates. I seriously doubt that it ever occurred, he told the paper, contending that the plaintiffs were using the allegation used to defame the good citizens who serve on this school board.

In its response to the lawsuit, the district reportedly called some of the families' claims immaterial, impertinent and scandalous, and intended only to cast the district in a negative light.

Settlement rejected
In February 2006, the board unanimously rejected a settlement offer that would have required renaming Christmas and Easter breaks to winter and spring, respectively, and to put a Dobrich child at the top of a waiting list for an arts school. It would have permitted board members to continue praying at their meetings. (US District Judge Joseph J. Farnan, Jr., who is hearing the case, ruled last year that the prayer was a historic tradition and could continue.)

In April the board's insurance company, which had been representing the district in the lawsuit, filed suit against it (and the individual board members) because they had, against its advice, rejected the settlement offer. The board then fired the attorneys that had been representing them and hired a new set. The insurance company is reportedly refusing to pay for the board's legal defense from the date the members rejected the settlement offer.

According to the Coastal Point, the insurance company's complaint is sealed, as is the district's response. The district's taxpayers, who will pay the bill if the insurer prevails, cannot know the details of the case.

Attorney Thomas Allingham, who represents the Dobrich family in their case against the school district, says the board's behavior suggests it was not negotiating in good faith. Allingham told JewsOnFirst that several board members attended the settlement negotiations, which were under the auspices of a federal mediator. He said the members approved the settlement during those negotiations. But, when the board voted on the offer, they rejected it unanimously.

Allingham said the plaintiffs remained open to the possibility that the case could be settled. But the case is set for trial in June 2007 in Wilmington.







Board prayer allowed with settlement

By Jonathan Starkey, Coastal Point (Sussex County, Delaware), June 16, 2006

A settlement offered by the plaintiffs in the Dobrich/Doe prayer suit and denied unanimously by the Indian River School board on Feb. 27 would have allowed board members to continue opening monthly meetings with a prayer, a board member and two other sources close to the case told the Coastal Point. Click here for the report (a PDF file).

School board to discuss religion policy

By Jonathan Starkey, Coastal Point (Sussex County, Delaware), June 23, 2006

The policies regarding prayer at graduations and religion in school that were adopted by the Indian River School Board on Oct. 19, 2004, after they heard complaints from a Jewish family, might be amended next week.

The board held a first reading on the amended ordinances Tuesday but deferred a vote until after an executive session on Tuesday, June 27. Board members and district Superintendent Lois Hobbs wouldn’t comment on the specifics of the proposed amendments. Click here for the report (a PDF file).

School prayer lawsuit filed against district

By Sean O'Sullivan, Gannett News Service, Delaware Wave, March 2, 2005

Two sets of parents filed a federal lawsuit in Wilmington on Monday that seeks to bar the Indian River School District from promoting religion at school functions.

The parents, who also are seeking damages, claim in the lawsuit that their rights to free speech and to be free from state-sponsored religion have been violated.

We didn't want a lawsuit, but at this point we feel like we don't have any other choice, said Mona Dobrich, one of the parents, in a statement provided by attorney Thomas J. Allingham. We are not trying to remove God from the schools or the public square. We simply don't think it is right for the district to impose a particular religious view on impressionable students. Continue

School district disputes lawsuit

By Sean O'Sullivan, Gannett News Service, Delaware Wave, May 4, 2005

WILMINGTON -- Indian River school officials have filed papers in federal court denying virtually every claim in a Jewish family's lawsuit over school-sponsored Christian prayer.

John Balaguer, attorney for the school district, also asked a U.S. District judge to strike large sections of the complaint as immaterial, impertinent and scandalous.

Balaguer said the items were included solely to cast the district in a negative light. Continue

ACLU Sues to Stop School Board Prayer: Dobrich v. Walls

Rutherford Institute website entry on the Dobrich case.

JOF note: the ACLU is not involved in the case!

Attorneys for The Rutherford Institute have asked the U.S. District Court for the District of Delaware to dismiss a lawsuit recently filed by the ACLU against Reginald Helms in his official capacity as a member of the Indian River School District Board of Education. The lawsuit, which was filed by the ACLU in February 2005 against school board members in their personal and professional capacities, alleges that school- sponsored prayer “has pervaded the life of teachers and students” in the Indian River District schools. In their motion to have the case dismissed, Institute attorneys argue that as a school board member, Helms should have immunity from liability claims under the established doctrine of absolute legislative immunity.

An official with the Indian River School District Board of Education contacted The Rutherford Institute for help in August 2004, after the Wilmington, Del., branch of the ACLU demanded that IRSD board members stop opening their monthly business meetings with a prayer. Attorneys for The Rutherford Institute agreed to represent Reginald Helms, vice president of the IRSD Board of Education, in his individual capacity should the Delaware school district’s practice of opening meetings with a brief prayer be challenged. Despite pressure from the Wilmington chapter of the ACLU to cease issuing prayers at public events, officials with the IRSD opened a school board meeting on Aug. 24, 2004, with a brief invocation. Several hundred members of the community gathered at Frankford Elementary School for the monthly business meeting broke into applause after Board President Harvey Walls asked board member Dr. Donald G. Hattier to lead the board in a word of prayer. Hattier read a prayer given by George Washington during the Revolutionary War. During the business meeting, the board also issued a first reading of a policy concerning school prayer at baccalaureate and commencement ceremonies, which states that student-initiated, student-delivered, voluntary messages may be permitted during graduation ceremonies. Thomas Neuberger, a Rutherford affiliate attorney with the Neuberger Firm, which is based in Wilmington, Del., is defending school board member Reginald Helms against the ACLU’s lawsuit. (link)




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1


Jon, our voice
Isn't it amazing the length that people that have such closed minds will go to, a matter of loss of control.
another voice from
the "you are on your own party" that the next prez, Barack, talked about in his wonderful acceptance speech. 
In the voice of........

Rodney King "why can't we all just get along." Name-calling serves no purpose. Can't we just refer to ourselves as Americans. Can we agree to disagree? I see a bright future. I am sorry your future is so dark and meaningless.


So because you don't like her voice and demeanor? (sm)
You aren't voting for your high school class president, or best personality for your year book. You need to base your decision on facts.
that voice is like a needle in the eye!...

Aw, the voice of wisdom.
x
Thank you - the voice of reason (nm)
x
no, it's not about Voice recognition, it's about
using medical computerized charts and "check boxes" if you will... cutting out the work of the MT by using generic charts and filling in information... at least where i come from
I am all for EMR, just not voice recognition -
EMR is just a way of keeping up with your records and not having all the paper at a bunch of different doctor's office.

Voice recognition on the other hand is what is killing our profession. Of course, the hospital I just left implemented voice recognition the week I left and the feedback from my ex-coworkers so far is that the Transcriptionist hate the system, the doctors hate the system, and they are already thinking about having to change it --- and they actually only bought the initial license for 10 of the 200 doctors to use the voice (and they put the good American doctors in that 10, of course).

I don't think that transcription will totally be replaced by computers in my lifetime at least, but I do think as technology advances, transcription will face even more changes.

We all have to keep in mind that typing these reports is based on an antiquated concept and that as the doctors are getting younger and younger, it means they have grown up using all this new technology that our older doctors did not have and are resistant to.

Like it or not, Obama or not, times are achangin'!
Peace
Several people have told me I am wrong?  About what?  Jews and socialism/communism?  Guess those posts didnt come through on my computer.  Other things?  If you mean disagreeing, we all do on this board, so what.  I didnt think you kept track of who agrees with who.  That is what is meant by debate, disagreeing and agreeing and getting heated up and calming down and, shock..ending the debate with a hand shake and maybe a cup of coffee or cola afterwards.  Peace!
Thanks Dem for the lone sane voice here
Thanks for affirming that the *genocide* comment was was WAYYY off base. There is a difference between you and the far leftists here, and the gap widens between the two on a daily basis.

Ann Coulter is a very vocal (sometimes over vocal) conservative. Many of us don't always agree with her approach or tactics. However, Ann says what she feels, and her free speech is as protected as anyone elses. Now, when Michael Moore says the same things in the same way and in the same style he's lauded here. So, to say that people like Ann are uniquely on the right is completely untruthful.

Ann is out to make money, of course! So is Michael Moore, and to a large extent so are the 9/11 widows. I don't minimize their loss, but I think exploiting their husband's memory for money politics, and 15 minutes of fame is pretty low.

Another voice in Utah last week.

 This is quite long but if you just read the the last lines, the no mores, it will move you. While our **leaders** were out there borrowing rhetoric from WWII and not from the good guys either, the mayor of Salt Lake City had some words of his own to share.


I have not been on the boards much lately because I just don't know what to say. There is so much that is so wrong that I am completely overwhelmed, so much death, so much torture, so much pain, so much greed, so much **depraved indifference***, so much deceit and on and on and on.   I am grateful there are still those who can put words together and produce a piece of coherent outrage. The mayor of Salt Lake is one of them.


http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0902-03.htm


Piglet, thank you for your voice of reason
It's very refreshing. Thanks again...
AAMT was supposed to be our voice
in Washington. I finally dropped my membership in disgust at their lack of action. All I saw them do was puff themselves up, making up all sorts of education and standards wish lists that have never been applied to the field which certainly would have helped keep work on shore and our wages more in line with our knowledge and services to the medical community.
More like a voice of scare tactics.
XX
Bravo. A voice of compassion and

wisdom.  Not often seen herewithin.


 


A voice of reason and balance.
nm
THANK YOU!! Finally, a voice of reason!
My head has been spinning so much over the abc comment about not starting to live until after the fourth month, or whatever it was she said, that I was just too baffled to address this. And then going on in another post about a life is a life when talking about a frog and a ferret . . . apparently totally missing the point of that post.

I believe, however, that a lot of abortions occur because the male involved does not want a child. I am not sticking up, necessarily, for the females who still have this done, but, IMHO, we STILL live in a male-dominated world and that is a huge reason for why this has become legal. I think that oftentimes it is young, scared GIRLS who subject themselves and their fetuses to this, in order to please their "man". I think that in many cases, if the female in question felt that she would have support, either from the father or from her family, she might make a different choice. Not excusing it, just saying . . . IMHO. Heck, I've seen it, and more than once.
Not only will we not leave them with peace,

deficit in American history, caused by WHAT?


And I just love how anyone who doesn't agree with them is labeled as having no values.


What kind of values does someone have to take a healthy surplus upon entering office and not only SQUANDERING it but then going on to create the biggest deficit in American history?


What kind of values does someone have to send our children to an unnecessary war to die and/or be injured while neglecting to give them inadequate supplies?


What kind of values does someone have to send our children off to a foreign land to die for his own personal bogus war, when he was too much of a coward to serve in combat duty himself?


What kind of values does someone have to take the blood of 9/11 victims and the fear of all other Americans and USE it to wage a bogus war against Iraq when that was his goal before he was even elected President?


What kind of values does someone have to not care enough about securing or borders or our ports or protecting our airspace and chemical/nuclear plants and decreases the budget for rail and subway security?


What kind of values does someone have to have to neglect to develop enough smallpox vaccines FOUR YEARS after the worst attack in American history, when bio attacks using smallpox was felt to be a threat?


What kind of values does someone have to have to make sure that his huge war budget includes FREE comprehensive medical benefits for all Iraqi citizens while he presides over a country where many of his own citizens who work 40 hours or more a week can't even afford health insurance?


What kind of values does someone have to have to deny American scientists the opportunity to study stem cell research, using the argument that he wants to "protect life" when he presides over a country where our children are being routinely molested and MURDERED by animals who the government refuses to keep in jail? 


Out of all the talk on these boards about life being "precious" as it regards stem cell research, I have yet to see ONE SINGLE POST about the multitude of children that have been abducted, sexually abused and murdered in this country in the last six months.  What kind of values does someone have to have to care more about cells in a petrie dish than the children who are already here?


Those examples aren't values. Those examples do nothing but reflect the values that are ABSENT in an egotistical moron of a president who, at his very BEST, is nothing but DANGEROUS.


No problem. Peace to you. NM
...
I hope for peace
Well, Im gonna post more than I would normally about myself..sigh..Im Jewish (though not practicing)..so that kind of makes my heart, mind and soul a bit concerned and tied up with all this, however, I am an American first and foremost and what happens in Israel and Palestine, that is their concern.  I do not live there.  I see what is happening and frankly I agree with Sharon's decision.  It pains me cause I cannot believe how it would feel giving up a home after 30+ years or so..where are these people going to relocate..My heart truly is heavy for them.  I dont like Sharon, never have and I think his political life is quite over.  I think the land has to be shared by both Palestine and Israel.  Whatever decisions their leaders make, I as an American truly have no say.  Quite a few in Israel are fanatics, totally Orthodox.  My family, my friends, my ex, my boyfriend, we all look upon the Orthodox as kind of radical as can be.  If you dont agree, I invite you to visit New City in upstate NY or Borough Park in Brooklyn (many other areas too, of course, but these two areas are my *home areas*).  You will find extremely fanatical Jews who if you are not Orthodox Jew wouldnt even look your way or give you the time of day.  I think the situation between Israel and Palestine is quite complex, longstanding, for sure, and something we as Americans really dont understand.  A childhood friend of mine went to Israel after high school to join the Army.  She was an American citizen and did not have to.  She and I have had long discussions, believe me.  This is too complex a situation that has been going on for eons. When Sadat and Begin signed a peace accord, my heart was full of joy, I cried my eyes out.  My father was more leery.  The Middle East is a complex land and we as Americans really cannot understand all the turmoil, passion, pain, etc., that has occurred and is still occurring.  Sure, to debate it is fine but to make an absolute decision about how you feel.  Please keep an open mind.  All I hope for is peace in the Middle East and peace in America.
Can we keep the peace and also debate, please?
Here we go..how many days was there peace over here on the liberal board..three?  Five?  Oh geez..I did not generalize..I most certainly have seen many anti choice people screaming out against a womans right to choose about her body..all I was stating is I sure hope they are screaming also for the children who are lost in the system, living in horrible homes or group homes.  From what I can see, there are so many children waiting for adoption, in foster care. Lets help them FIRST..
I am sad you feel that way. Peace will sm
only come with justice. This is still very much an open wound for America, half of us that is.

It amazes me that Americans were gung-ho to spend 30 million investigating Clinton's famous BJ, yet do not question why only 1/4 of that amount was spent investigating 911 - a blow job was more important to America than 3,000 of its citizens murdered.

In the long run it has everything to do with peace
As it disrupts the global economy and the ability of this planet to feed its population it will have very much to do with peace.  Power struggles, especially over oil/food/usable land = wars, historically. 
The peace party......
and what ultimately might get us into a nuclear confrontation.
Peace offering up above.

We all love our country.  Let's focus on that.  No matter who wins, there is a lot of work to be done.


G'night.


Peace back at ya.

Peace? And Unity?
If peace and unity is what obama supporters are touting, well then heaven forbid anyone disagree or have different opinions.  That has been shown on these very boards today.  Peace and unity indeed.
The MSM has been a liberal political voice for years
what's the beef about. What does freedom of the press have to do with foreign countries? That argument withstanding the military has published articles for years in foreign newspapers. It happened after WWII and wars previous and subsequent to that, but just because this administration is doing it it's all of the sudden a problem.
Thank you...nice to have a second voice crying out in the wilderness...
just put on your kevlar and come right on in. :)
Do not patronize. Bristol has no real voice here.
She, her baby and her husband be living their private lives out on the alter of sacrifice for the sake of SP, regardless of how the news got out there. It's out now and mom's ambitions played just as much role in this tragedy as any rumor factory you will repeatedly try to use as a scapegoat. No need to beat this dead horse and repeat youself a thousand times tonight. The media will not show restraint and the internet, even less. We will all have our bellies full of this as the convention grinds on. One thing is certain, Palin just rained on her own parade.
I cannot STAND to listen to that woman's voice!
Any one else feel this way about Palin?  She irks me.
Right on - another voice of reason and truth (no message)
x
the voice of reason! completely true. nm
x
Yeah, and you're ALWAYS the voice of reason
Oh brother!