Home     Contact Us    
Main Board Job Seeker's Board Job Wanted Board Resume Bank Company Board Word Help Medquist New MTs Classifieds Offshore Concerns VR/Speech Recognition Tech Help Coding/Medical Billing
Gab Board Politics Comedy Stop Health Issues
ADVERTISEMENT




Serving Over 20,000 US Medical Transcriptionists

Valles and these parents see the light....nm

Posted By: Democrat on 2005-10-06
In Reply to: Parents want to abort Bennett's 3M pact - gt

x


Complete Discussion Below: marks the location of current message within thread

The messages you are viewing are archived/old.
To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select the boards given in left menu


Other related messages found in our database

You tried. Some of us do see the light.

A lot of us (family, neighbors, friends) could not believe how Obama spoke about the (SECRET MEETING).  Obama should not have discussed to anyone about the talk in the meeting.  As for Obama's so called aides he picked, should have fired them on the spot for a leak like that.  What if Obama was to talk with the President of Iran?  Look out.  Do not want to mention what I think of all this because I WILL GET BLASTED.  I guess some have to learn the hard way in life.  I see a lot of government me, me, me and LOOK AT ME approach.  Totally into one-self. 


You explained it completely clear and totally made sense.  Writing totally on the wall and so many others could not believe today's secret meeting.


Thanks, this does shed a different light.sm
I do admit, I have not been following this.
Here's another one that sheds even more light.

This also is pretty long and contains much of the same as the other link I provided, but this one also addresses how he should start a *small war* in order to be sucessful.  It also addresses how the George W. Bush camp tried to denigrate Mr. Herskowitz's character after he was pulled from the book (one of the classic trademarks of this administration), and that even after all that, former President George Herbert Walker Bush requested that Mr. Herskowitz write a book about his father, and he agreed.


 


http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1028-01.htm


 















Published on Thursday, October 28, 2004 by GNN.tv

Two Years Before 9/11, Candidate Bush was Already Talking Privately About Attacking Iraq, According to His Former Ghost Writer

by Russ Baker
 

HOUSTON -- Two years before the September 11 attacks, presidential candidate George W. Bush was already talking privately about the political benefits of attacking Iraq, according to his former ghost writer, who held many conversations with then-Texas Governor Bush in preparation for a planned autobiography.

He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999, said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. It was on his mind. He said to me: 'One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.' And he said, 'My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.' He said, 'If I have a chance to invade·.if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it. I'm going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I'm going to have a successful presidency. Herskowitz said that Bush expressed frustration at a lifetime as an underachiever in the shadow of an accomplished father. In aggressive military action, he saw the opportunity to emerge from his father's shadow. The moment, Herskowitz said, came in the wake of the September 11 attacks. Suddenly, he's at 91 percent in the polls, and he'd barely crawled out of the bunker.

That President Bush and his advisers had Iraq on their minds long before weapons inspectors had finished their work - and long before alleged Iraqi ties with terrorists became a central rationale for war - has been raised elsewhere, including in a book based on recollections of former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill. However, Herskowitz was in a unique position to hear Bush's unguarded and unfiltered views on Iraq, war and other matters - well before he became president.

In 1999, Herskowitz struck a deal with the campaign of George W. Bush about a ghost-written autobiography, which was ultimately titled A Charge to Keep : My Journey to the White House, and he and Bush signed a contract in which the two would split the proceeds. The publisher was William Morrow. Herskowitz was given unimpeded access to Bush, and the two met approximately 20 times so Bush could share his thoughts. Herskowitz began working on the book in May, 1999, and says that within two months he had completed and submitted some 10 chapters, with a remaining 4-6 chapters still on his computer. Herskowitz was replaced as Bush's ghostwriter after Bush's handlers concluded that the candidate's views and life experiences were not being cast in a sufficiently positive light.

According to Herskowitz, who has authored more than 30 books, many of them jointly written autobiographies of famous Americans in politics, sports and media (including that of Reagan adviser Michael Deaver), Bush and his advisers were sold on the idea that it was difficult for a president to accomplish an electoral agenda without the record-high approval numbers that accompany successful if modest wars.

The revelations on Bush's attitude toward Iraq emerged recently during two taped interviews of Herskowitz, which included a discussion of a variety of matters, including his continued closeness with the Bush family, indicated by his subsequent selection to pen an authorized biography of Bush's grandfather, written and published last year with the assistance and blessing of the Bush family.

Herskowitz also revealed the following:



  • In 2003, Bush's father indicated to him that he disagreed with his son's invasion of Iraq.

  • Bush admitted that he failed to fulfill his Vietnam-era domestic National Guard service obligation, but claimed that he had been excused.

  • Bush revealed that after he left his Texas National Guard unit in 1972 under murky circumstances, he never piloted a plane again. That casts doubt on the carefully-choreographed moment of Bush emerging in pilot's garb from a jet on the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln in 2003 to celebrate Mission Accomplished in Iraq. The image, instantly telegraphed around the globe, and subsequent hazy White House statements about his capacity in the cockpit, created the impression that a heroic Bush had played a role in landing the craft.

  • Bush described his own business ventures as floundering before campaign officials insisted on recasting them in a positive light.

Throughout the interviews for this article and in subsequent conversations, Herskowitz indicated he was conflicted over revealing information provided by a family with which he has longtime connections, and by how his candor could comport with the undefined operating principles of the as-told-to genre. Well after the interviews-in which he expressed consternation that Bush's true views, experience and basic essence had eluded the American people -Herskowitz communicated growing concern about the consequences for himself of the publication of his remarks, and said that he had been under the impression he would not be quoted by name. However, when conversations began, it was made clear to him that the material was intended for publication and attribution. A tape recorder was present and visible at all times.

Several people who know Herskowitz well addressed his character and the veracity of his recollections. I don't know anybody that's ever said a bad word about Mickey, said Barry Silverman, a well-known Houston executive and civic figure who worked with him on another book project. An informal survey of Texas journalists turned up uniform confidence that Herskowitz's account as contained in this article could be considered accurate.

One noted Texas journalist who spoke with Herskowitz about the book in 1999 recalls how the author mentioned to him at the time that Bush had revealed things the campaign found embarrassing and did not want in print. He requested anonymity because of the political climate in the state. I can't go near this, he said.

According to Herskowitz, George W. Bush's beliefs on Iraq were based in part on a notion dating back to the Reagan White House - ascribed in part to now-vice president Dick Cheney, Chairman of the House Republican Policy Committee under Reagan. Start a small war. Pick a country where there is justification you can jump on, go ahead and invade.

Bush's circle of pre-election advisers had a fixation on the political capital that British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher collected from the Falklands War. Said Herskowitz: They were just absolutely blown away, just enthralled by the scenes of the troops coming back, of the boats, people throwing flowers at [Thatcher] and her getting these standing ovations in Parliament and making these magnificent speeches.

Republicans, Herskowitz said, felt that Jimmy Carter's political downfall could be attributed largely to his failure to wage a war. He noted that President Reagan and President Bush's father himself had (besides the narrowly-focused Gulf War I) successfully waged limited wars against tiny opponents - Grenada and Panama - and gained politically. But there were successful small wars, and then there were quagmires, and apparently George H.W. Bush and his son did not see eye to eye.

I know [Bush senior] would not admit this now, but he was opposed to it. I asked him if he had talked to W about invading Iraq. He said, 'No I haven't, and I won't, but Brent [Scowcroft] has.' Brent would not have talked to him without the old man's okaying it. Scowcroft, national security adviser in the elder Bush's administration, penned a highly publicized warning to George W. Bush about the perils of an invasion.

Herskowitz's revelations are not the sole indicator of Bush's pre-election thinking on Iraq. In December 1999, some six months after his talks with Herskowitz, Bush surprised veteran political chroniclers, including the Boston Globe 's David Nyhan, with his blunt pronouncements about Saddam at a six-way New Hampshire primary event that got little notice: It was a gaffe-free evening for the rookie front-runner, till he was asked about Saddam's weapons stash, wrote Nyhan. 'I'd take 'em out,' [Bush] grinned cavalierly, 'take out the weapons of mass destruction·I'm surprised he's still there, said Bush of the despot who remains in power after losing the Gulf War to Bush Jr.'s father·It remains to be seen if that offhand declaration of war was just Texas talk, a sort of locker room braggadocio, or whether it was Bush's first big clinker.

The notion that President Bush held unrealistic or naïve views about the consequences of war was further advanced recently by a Bush supporter, the evangelist Pat Robertson, who revealed that Bush had told him the Iraq invasion would yield no casualties. In addition, in recent days, high-ranking US military officials have complained that the White House did not provide them with adequate resources for the task at hand.

Herskowitz considers himself a friend of the Bush family, and has been a guest at the family vacation home in Kennebunkport. In the late 1960s, Herskowitz, a longtime Houston Chronicle sports columnist designated President Bush's father, then-Congressman George HW Bush, to replace him as a guest columnist, and the two have remained close since then. (Herskowitz was suspended briefly in April without pay for reusing material from one of his own columns, about legendary UCLA basketball coach John Wooden.)

In 1999, when Herskowitz turned in his chapters for Charge to Keep, Bush's staff expressed displeasure -often over Herskowitz's use of language provided by Bush himself. In a chapter on the oil business, Herskowitz included Bush's own words to describe the Texan's unprofitable business ventures, writing: the companies were floundering. I got a call from one of the campaign lawyers, he was kind of angry, and he said, 'You've got some wrong information.' I didn't bother to say, 'Well you know where it came from.' [The lawyer] said, 'We do not consider that the governor struggled or floundered in the oil business. We consider him a successful oilman who started up at least two new businesses.'

In the end, campaign officials decided not to go with Herskowitz's account, and, moreover, demanded everything back. The lawyer called me and said, 'Delete it. Shred it. Just do it.'

They took it and [communications director] Karen [Hughes] rewrote it, he said. A campaign official arrived at his home at seven a.m. on a Monday morning and took his notes and computer files. However, Herskowitz, who is known for his memory of anecdotes from his long history in journalism and book publishing, says he is confident about his recollections.

According to Herskowitz, Bush was reluctant to discuss his time in the Texas Air National Guard - and inconsistent when he did so. Bush, he said, provided conflicting explanations of how he came to bypass a waiting list and obtain a coveted Guard slot as a domestic alternative to being sent to Vietnam. Herskowitz also said that Bush told him that after transferring from his Texas Guard unit two-thirds through his six-year military obligation to work on an Alabama political campaign, he did not attend any Alabama National Guard drills at all, because he was excused. This directly contradicts his public statements that he participated in obligatory training with the Alabama National Guard. Bush's claim to have fulfilled his military duty has been subject to intense scrutiny; he has insisted in the past that he did show up for monthly drills in Alabama - though commanding officers say they never saw him, and no Guardsmen have come forward to accept substantial rewards for anyone who can claim to have seen Bush on base.

Herskowitz said he asked Bush if he ever flew a plane again after leaving the Texas Air National Guard in 1972 - which was two years prior to his contractual obligation to fly jets was due to expire. He said Bush told him he never flew any plane - military or civilian - again. That would contradict published accounts in which Bush talks about his days in 1973 working with inner-city children, when he claimed to have taken some of the children up in a plane.

In 2002, three years after he had been pulled off the George W. Bush biography, Herskowitz was asked by Bush's father to write a book about the current president's grandfather, Prescott Bush, after getting a message that the senior Bush wanted to see him. Former President Bush just handed it to me. We were sitting there one day, and I was visiting him there in his office·He said, 'I wish somebody would do a book about my dad.'

He said to me, 'I know this has been a disappointing time for you, but it's amazing how many times something good will come out of it.' I passed it on to my agent, he jumped all over it. I asked [Bush senior], 'Would you support it and would you give me access to the rest of family?' He said yes.

That book, Duty, Honor, Country: The Life and Legacy of Prescott Bush , was published in 2003 by Routledge. If anything, the book has been criticized for its over-reliance on the Bush family's perspective and rosy interpretation of events. Herskowitz himself is considered the ultimate as-told-to author, lending credibility to his account of what George W. Bush told him. Herskowitz's other books run the gamut of public figures, and include the memoirs of Reagan aide Deaver, former Texas Governor and Nixon Treasury Secretary John Connally, newsman Dan Rather, astronaut Walter Cunningham, and baseball greats Mickey Mantle and Nolan Ryan.

After Herskowitz was pulled from the Bush book project, the biographer learned that a scenario was being prepared to explain his departure. I got a phone call from someone in the Bush campaign, confidentially, saying 'Watch your back.'

Reporters covering Bush say that when they inquired as to why Herskowitz was no longer on the project, Hughes intimated that Herskowitz had personal habits that interfered with his writing - a claim Herskowitz said is unfounded. Later, the campaign put out the word that Herskowitz had been removed for missing a deadline. Hughes subsequently finished the book herself - it received largely critical reviews for its self-serving qualities and lack of spontaneity or introspection.

So, said Herskowitz, the best material was left on the cutting room floor, including Bush's true feelings.

He told me that as a leader, you can never admit to a mistake, Herskowitz said. That was one of the keys to being a leader.

Research support for this article was provided by the Investigative Fund of The Nation Institute .

Russ Baker is an award-winning independent journalist who has been published in The New York Times ,The Nation ,Washington Post ,The Telegraph (UK), Sydney Morning-Herald , and Der Spiegel , among many others.

© Copyright 2004 gnn.tv


Why thank you....Ms sweetness and light....
Well, obviously your faith makes cursing a personal choice too. Try reading the post next time and do not, please, put words into my mouth. I was not comparing Hitler to a Jew. What a ridiculous statement. I was not comparing Hitler to abortion, even a more ridiculous statement. I was talking about moral relativity, and that the people in Germany during the rise of Hitler were probably defending his stand on Jews, just like you are defending abortion, because when people are led to believe that any life, at any stage, means nothing, or in your case state it does not even exist, it is a breeding ground for people like Hitler. I meant that people in Germany were probably rationalizing the killing of Jews like you are rationalizing the killing of babies, therefore making it easier to accept what Hitler was doing. You twist words and when you don't get your way you result to base name calling. Calm down, get a grip and a cup of coffee. I am not your enemy.
i am making light of the

attempts to discredit Barack by calling him a celebrity.  You will see the same issue repeated over and over on this board, only by those who seriously consider that a valid issues.


 


Perhaps because the book has only now come to light....
I didn't know about the book until now. The point being...it is known about now, she knew it then, she should not have taken the job. What if they had chosen Michelle Malkin or Ann Coulter? Would that be okay with you? Geez.
Glad you see the light.......
xx
Thanks for shedding that light sm
I had not considered what it would do to the lower income people. I had only considered that a straight-across-the board system would work better than our tiered/progressive/whatever you want to call it works now. I do like the flat-rate system, much more equitable.
The light at the end of the tunnel

"We hate you guys. Once you start issuing $1 trillion, 2 trillion …we know the dollar is going to depreciate, so we hate you guys but there is nothing much we can do."

So says Lueo Ping, China Regulatory Commission (02/11/09)


I will gladly eat crow if I'm wrong because our country needs help, but I still don't think it will work.  We have too many in Washington who are crooks and until we get our government to actually work FOR us instead of working for themselves......maybe we will get there.  Who knows.  Right now I don't like the road we are on.  I don't like spending so much money and borrowing from China or just printing money.  I don't like the idea of all these government programs providing welfare, etc.  This package isn't even going to help for a year or two, if it does at all, so regardless more people are going to lose jobs, homes, etc. 


I think the light will come back on again.

Obama is a very wise man. He has come up with an excellent plan to get distressed homeowners back on their feet. He is going to take away their vehicles. 


 


Anybody got a light? 


So shines a light in a dim world. sm
Loved the scene from Armageddon.  Great time to tie it in. Thanks!
Glad you can make light.
Put your political silliness aside and think of someone other than yourself, and yes, they can use body armor.  If you want to send them some, please do.  Let me tell you one thing, you don't intimidate me at all.  You can laugh and act like a fool all you want, but the truth is, you care about your political perversions and not a bit about the troops or you would be doing something to make their lives easier.  Like I said, I never ever met a soldier who didn't want a package from home.  Never.
I think you already have someone to light candles and pray to...
ahem.
Let us hope that the light at the end of the tunnel

isn't a freight train getting ready to run us over.  That is just how I feel about our economy and government right now.  I'm tired of the finger pointing.  I'm tired of republican versus democrat.  I'm tired of politicians and CEOs lining their pockets with money while the rest of us struggle to survive because of what they have done to our economy. 


After the debate my husband and I flipped back and forth between CNN and Fox.  All CNN talked about was how Barry won the debate and most people on Fox said McCain did.  LOL.  Personally, I think they both could have done better.  I think that time has come that we want more answers and we want specifics.  We are tired of being pacified just so these politicians can get elected and not do anything they promised us during their campaign. 


Mrs. Bridger, you need to chill and light
yourself up another fattie.
I kinda like the puff, light, etc.

Saves some money and if I put them down, they go out instead of burning away. I had my first carton of 'em last week. Took 7 days for that carton. Sunday I started my second carton. I'm almost through that one today because it's not a "puff and light."


Some day....


Ggive me a break...now that the story has seen the light of day maybe.
What was wrong with the GOVERNOR wardrobe. Why did it need the RNC boost into the ELITE label league of NM and Saks? What part of HYPOCRISY do you not get? It's not so much about the money (though that aspect of it is an eye-opener), but rather the conflicting image/message of NM, Saks and Joe the Plumber.
Saved by the test. Undecided has seen the light.
with sense of clarity and purpose. What a relief. Lord, what a glorious day.
Thanks for the article, puts O in a good light really.
Told me how he is trying to rein in the lobbyists and get spending under better control and not things as usual in DC. I am Obama girl, thanks for posting!
Thank God there are parents who do not think as you.
x
If you mean John Edwards....the affair and a child that has just come to light. nm
nm
Does shed some light on how things work in Alaska. sm
It is interesting that she is against more taxes on the oil companies overall but has a 75% tax on oil profits in Alaska.
light-hearted politics topic: In your state, whose TV

This board has become quite ugly to come and visit.  Most folks know who they want to win and the arguments are becoming redundant.  So, on the lighter side, I'm wondering what's happening in other states.  Here in Michigan, McCain has pretty much stopped trying to advertise, and nearly all ads are Obama.  I think Michigan has been such a forgotten state, our own one-state recession has been going on for decades, and the majority of us are democrats.  Just wondering if other states are being overwhelmed with predominantly one candidate over the other...


Me too! My parents both Democrats....
the Zell Miller kind. THAT Democratic party is no more.
It wasn't the parents
It was the caretakers in the orphanages that physically and sexually abused these children and subsequently murdered them (approximately 1910-1940). The parents gave them up because they could not care for them. There are drugs that cause miscarriage. That is abortion. There are natural causes for miscarriage (dilating cervix, the fetus is still alive). That is abortion. Overturning Roe vs. Wade will not improve the quality of life for anyone. There will just be more backroom abortions and more unwanted children eking out a miserable existence. Like I said, I will leave the judgment part up to God. And abortion isn't the only thing they want abolished  -  birth control is on the list, too. I guess married couples should just abstain from sex after they have had their required amount of religiously acceptable children. Some countries impose abortion on their women, I guess we are lucky not to have been born in one of those countries, otherwise, we'd burn in heck!
I asked my parents about this
and they both laughed at me. My father comes from a very politically involved family. My dad tells me things were very charged when Kennedy ran and especially when Nixon ran. He has especially bad memories of the Nixon campaign.
that is, if the child does not want the parents to know at all
xx
I don't believe that the language of your parents. sm
has anything to do with being qualified to be the POTUS. We are about to have a POTUS whose father was not a US citizen.
But till the age of 18, it is the PARENTS
who decide what is, according to their opinion, better or worse.

And this applies also to abortion, if you like it or not.

Because there are responsible parents out there who think that producing a child entails also RAISING this child and not giving it up for adoption.

And if they cannot maintain this child, things happen!- they choose pro-choice.


Well, many parents would love to put
their children in Christian schools but you screaming God-hating liberals hate school vouchers.  :)  I suppose you don't mind sending your kids to public education.  You want them to be just like commie, perverted mom.
Elderly parents
I think what we are going to see more of in the future is multiple generations living under one roof. It's going to be the only way anyone will be able to afford to live. They've done this in other countries for years because of the high cost of living. The elderly will not be able to afford to live on their own. Our children will not be able to afford to live on their own because they won't be able to find jobs.
My parents were smart like that too.

My dad worked for GM for 30+ years and retired in his 60s only because he wasn't capable of working anymore.  They paid off their house.  They had one credit card that they paid off every month if they used it.  Dad had cash in the bank, stashed in other places, etc.  Now my dad has been gone for almost 2 years now and my mom is living in her paid off house by herself.  All that hard work that my father did to make sure that she would be taken care of after he was gone and now GM is doing horrible.  Not sure what will happen to my mother's healthcare through GM or the pension my father worked so hard for.  It is truly a shame if his blood, sweat, and tears of 30+ years didn't amount to anything.


A lot of younger people nowadays don't know what it is to work for what you have.  Everyone wants things given to them now and that is a huge reason why I have a problem with welfare.  It doesn't help the people who really need a hand up.  All of these government assistant programs will do nothing but make people more lazy and dependent on others to give to them.  I'd rather work for what I have and tell the government to leave me the heck alone, but that is just me. 


The average American has 10K in credit card debt and  think that is just sad.  My DH and I have one credit card and we pay it off every month.  The only thing we owe on is our house and it sucks that I'm terrified about losing it because the economy is so bad when my DH and I have been nothing but responsible with our money.  We just keep plugging along and hoping that DH's job isn't one of the ones on the chopping block.  If we keeps his job, we will be okay.  However, if he doesn't, especially with a new baby on the way, we are in deep sh!t!


The parents liked the idea of....(sm)

having a website that students could use for their class.  I have no problem with that.  A lot of teachers do that.  AGAIN, the problem is that it was a conservative website. 


Teaching our children partisan politics when they are supposed to be learning history is completely not acceptable.


I also happen to agree that "real" history for the most part is not taught in high school.  You only get the real stuff when you reach college, if you're lucky enough to get a good professor.  However, I doubt very seriously what you call "real history" and the facts would match up.


I listened to Bush speak last night. No light at the end of this tunnel. nm
nm
Both of my parents were registered Democrats....
I grew up in a Democrat household. That being said...my parents would not recognize the Democratic party as it is today. And they could not be classified as liberals, based on what I hear and see from those who call themselves liberals. I should be more specific I suppose...when I say "liberals" I am referring to those who post here who have identified themselves as liberals, and those I have seen in print and in the media who identify themselves as liberals. That is my basis. Really has nothing to do with registered Democrats...I have no way of knowing if the liberals who post here and identify themselves as such are registered Democrats. Color me confused because I was lamblasted by some who identified themselves as liberals, proceeded to tell me there were no true liberals in the Democratic party (well, that is news to them then, because many of them call themselves liberals). That is when I made the comment that it was hardly to understand what a liberal really was when there are those who define themselves as liberals who are also Democrats and those who define themselves as liberals and say there are no liberals in the democratic party. Yeah...that is a little confusing. However...that being said...when you see me post something about "liberals" I am talking about those I have come into contact with...either in my personal life, on this board, or in print or media...all who have defined themselves as "liberals." Certainly not everyone in the country...have not met them and have no idea what THEIR interpretation of liberal is. I just have to go with what I have experience with. That being said...in my personal life are two stepdaughters who define themselves as liberals, and we have lively debates, believe me. However, I see the same tendencies in them that I see in some here who define themselves as liberal. Doesn't mean we do not care about each other, because we do. We love each other through it. But those who do not have a personal relationship with someone with opposing view...seem to want to demonize the other side. We are all Americans...and we should be able to love each other through it. And as a country we are not doing that...we are doing the opposite, and letting people like Ann Coulter and AL Franken divide us even further...when we should be condemning both. That is all I am saying... :-)
Obama's parents were never married.
Do I have to do ALL the research around here?

Y'all are so naive!
What about parents who don't discuss with their kids?
And so you know right off, I'm not a Barack fan nor McCain fan. However, my own personal beliefs aside, I believe "it takes a village to raise a child" and there are FAR too many parents NOT doing their jobs these days, which forces schools, governments, etc. to jump in to help. I see far too many parents who'd just as soon go to the bar than raise their child. There are parents who are apathetic, and there are parents who are embarrassed or ill-informed themselves to teach their kids sex ed. I don't think sex ed is a problem at all in school, so long as it's in the context of health education and not presented to students in a biased manner of some sort. It IS how mammals reproduce and therefore does have a place in education.

God gave us free will and if you try to control the free will of someone else, how is that right? I believe in consequences of free will when someone chooses wrong, which is why we have laws in place. I don't believe it's any one person's or party's place to tell another how to live their life, period.

Personally, I'd like to see more parents do their jobs at home so gov't and schools didn't have to do it for them (and all the rest of us too as a result), and sure, ideally I'd like to see more kids abstaining from sex altogether. But I'm also a realist and know that my beliefs and willpower aren't the same as everyone else's. That's what is supposed to be great about USA.

The reality is that not all kids have the willpower to abstain in the heat of the moment, no matter WHAT their upbringing or what wonderful parents they have. As you said, it's everywhere - on TV, movies, ads, games, you name it! It's in their face now more than ever, so to ignore it and act like it won't ever happen isn't the answer, either. No, I don't know what the answer is, either, but I don't think that's it.

Also, to take away any access to sex ed and/or birth control at all is in a sense forcing the ideals/morals of one group of people on another and basically taking the free will of the other group - how do you reconcile that? I'm being sincere, as this question plagues me often when considering these issues.
Thank you Amanda..besides, I think that if most parents could send their
child to private schools..and he and his wife are PAYING for it, so what is the problem??
Yes, children are but NOT the ILLEGAL PARENTS...they
--
Well...if it puts Obama in a good light, it is probably owned by George Soros. nm
nm
Parents want to abort Bennett's 3M pact
Parents want to abort Bennett's $3M pact

By MENSAH M. DEAN
deanm@phillynews.com

Philadelphia parents and education activists are
demanding that the city school district end the $3
million contract it awarded in April to K12 Inc., in
light of controversial remarks the company's board
chairman made this week about aborting black babies.

William J. Bennett, chairman of the board of the
Washington-area education company and a former U.S.
Education Secretary, set off protests with remarks he
made during his nationally syndicated radio talk show
Wednesday.

Responding to a caller, Bennett took issue with the
hypothesis put forth in a recent book that one reason
crime is down is that abortion is up. Bennett said:
If you wanted to reduce crime, you could - if that
were your sole purpose - you could abort every black
baby in this country and your crime rate would go
down.

That would be an impossibly ridiculous and morally
reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would
go down, Bennett said.

White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan yesterday
said The president believes the comments were not
appropriate.

Bennett later said his comments had been
mischaracterized and that his point was that the idea
of supporting abortion to reduce crime was morally
reprehensible.

Though some of the Philadelphia school district's top
science teachers raised concerns about K12's
qualifications and experience, the district awarded
the company the contract to supply kindergarten
through third-grade science curriculum materials in
April.

I find it hard to see any explanation for why they're
here in Philadelphia educating many of the black
children Mr. Bennett clearly finds it provocative to
call expendable, said Helen Gym, a mother of a
district third-grader.

I am very rarely struck speechless anymore. However,
I could not get words out of my mouth this morning
when I realized that my school district is somehow
providing support to this company, said Ellayne
Bender, mother of a district 11th-grader.

On a moral level, as a human being, Bender added, I
would like to see the contract voided.

Last fall, Bennett publicly touted district schools
CEO Paul Vallas as a good candidate to become the next
U.S. Secretary of Education. Last night, however,
Vallas stepped away from the man with whom he had been
cordial.

I read his comments, and his comments are outrageous
and offensive to all of us, Vallas said of Bennett.
We do not have a relationship with Bill Bennett. Our
contract is with K12, who are doing an excellent job
in our schools. In my opinion, any extension of the
contract could be jeopardized by his continued
presence on the board.

The length of the contract was not immediately known.

Bennett was education secretary under President Reagan
and director of drug control policy when Bush's father
was president.


No boyfriend sleepovers for parents in Michigan...sm
Dad Pans Girlfriend Sleepover Ban

DETROIT, Dec. 22, 2005










 (AP / CBS)


Quote


This antiquated law allows the state to unconstitutionally interfere with a parent's relationship with his or her children.




Kary Moss, executive director, ACLU of Michigan



(AP) A divorced father will fight a ruling that keeps his girlfriend away from their Michigan home when his children visit overnight, the state chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union said Wednesday.

The ACLU said it would appeal to the state Supreme Court on behalf of Christian Muller, whose ex-wife sought the court order based on an 1838 state law that makes lewd and lascivious cohabitation a crime. Michigan is one of only seven states with such a law on the books, the ACLU said.

This antiquated law allows the state to unconstitutionally interfere with a parent's relationship with his or her children, said Kary Moss, executive director of the ACLU of Michigan.

Muller shares legal custody of his two daughters, ages 5 and 7, with his former wife, Nicolette Muller.

Oakland County Judge Daniel Patrick O'Brien ordered that both parents be prohibited from having overnight visitation with their children when they have unrelated overnight guests of the opposite sex.

The latest appeal argues that the Court of Appeals decision conflicts with its prior rulings and with the Child Custody Act of 1970, and relies on an unconstitutional statute — the 1838 state law.

Elizabeth Silverman, an attorney who had represented Nicolette Muller, said Wednesday her services had not been retained for the latest appeal.

A home telephone number could not be found for Nicolette Muller, who lives in southeastern Michigan.

I can't begin to imagine what the parents must feel.
I would be so enraged if I were in their position that I'm not sure what I'd do. I hope I would remember that keeping my family together and supporting my child (or children if there are siblings) has to be a priority, but on the other hand, to know that this monster is free to walk the streets and do this to other children... I'm not sure I wouldn't do whatever was necessary to put him either behind bars or underground. I certainly couldn't condemn a parent in that situation who made that choice.

I really hope there is enough uproar over this to change things. Otherwise, what choice do people have to protect their children but to take the law into their own hands? These judges (and legislators, for that matter) need to realize that, like guards in a prison, government rules by consent of the governed. Fail to protect the governed or to enforce reasonable laws in a just manner, and the governed will assume control one way or another. I am not an anarchist by any means, but law and order is one of the most basic governmental responsibilities. We can argue til the cows come home about everything else we would or wouldn't like the government involved in, but if they fail on too large a scale in this most basic duty, vigilantism and anarchy become inevitable.
I don't care how much the parents make per year...

Their kids still deserve affordable healthcare.  You keep talking about people making $80,000 per year, and yes that is a lot of money, and more than double what I make, but those people can still get into trouble with medical bills of $100,000 to $200,000, and is it fair for that hard-working upper-middle-class family to have to sell their house simply to pay medical bills for a sick child?  Not in my personal opinion.


Some people don't prioritize their spending well - I agree with you there, but should their kids suffer health-wise because of their parents horrible spending habits? Is it fair that many parents have to take a 2nd job simply to pay for their health insurance premiums?  Is it fair that they cannot afford to take simple family vacations because ALL of their money goes to bills and health insurance?  Is it right that many parents don't spend quality time with their children at night and aren't there to help their kids with their homework because they have had to take a 2nd job to cover health care for the family?  For most families it is not a choice between cable TV and healthcare.  Cable TV costs about $60 to $100 per month.  Health insurance premiums can be upwards of $1000 per month plus additional costs.  $12,000 per year on cable TV?  I don't think so.


I personally don't go out and buy extravagant things, and that is fine with me.  I can barely afford to take the kids on a weekend trip to the museum in the next town, but I know if I keep working hard someday I might be able to take my kids on more trips and broaden their herizons a bit more.  In the meantime, we have a lot of love to go around, and I know that is what kids needs most, but I long for the freedom to show them a little more of the beautiful state we live in without having to worry about a $1000 per month health insurance premium.


I was raised by very conservative, strict parents. - sm
But once you get beyond high school, and into college or out into the working world, you meet so many different kinds of people. I'd be lying if I said I got along with all of them (or even maybe most of them?) But in my own experience, beginning back when I met the first gay person I ever knew (he had his own horse, and he let me ride it all the time), my personal friendships have been good ones. I wouldn't trade any of them for anything, and feel sad when I think they sometimes have to live certain aspects of their lives as ƈnd-class' citizens. Especially when each and every one contributes so much to society, and to life in general. So I really have no idea, as well.
I agree - parents are always proud of their children
And I guess if all the Billy Boy Clinton fans think its okay for Billy to say the things he is about his daughter (who has never been involved in politics herself) then I think Bush Sr. can think highly of his sons too.
If my grandparents and great parents were alive
They would slap me upside the head and say "Snap out of it. When I was your age I had to walk to school in the snow without a coat and shoes up hill - both ways". My grandmother would then call me pannywaste (whatever that is but when someone was wimpy she'd call them that), and my other grandmother would call me wimpy, whoos, or other words like that.

Our grandparents went through a depression, a couple of wars. They went hungry and went without. My grandfather told me his family was so poor he didn't even have shoes to go to school in. He had to wait for his brother to outgrow his so he could inherit them. They went through worse than us and they survived and they didn't have any government office telling them how to get through it.

I wonder if this new website was part of the spendulous plan (is this where our tax money is going?).

When are people who have any power to be able to do anything going to say enough is enough, your all fired. When people are inept and destroying a country (oops, mean corporation), it's time to fire them. Not them them spend more years in the seats continuing to put the country in ruins.
If my grandparents and great parents were alive
They would slap me upside the head and say "Snap out of it. When I was your age I had to walk to school in the snow without a coat and shoes up hill - both ways". My grandmother would then call me pannywaste (whatever that is but when someone was wimpy she'd call them that), and my other grandmother would call me wimpy, whoos, or other words like that.

Our grandparents went through a depression, a couple of wars. They went hungry and went without. My grandfather told me his family was so poor he didn't even have shoes to go to school in. He had to wait for his brother to outgrow his so he could inherit them. They went through worse than us and they survived and they didn't have any government office telling them how to get through it.

I wonder if this new website was part of the spendulous plan (is this where our tax money is going?).

When are people who have any power to be able to do anything going to say enough is enough, your all fired. When people are inept and destroying a country (oops, mean corporation), it's time to fire them. Not them them spend more years in the seats continuing to put the country in ruins.
just like sex ed, they should make kids parents decide
ever remember having to have a permission slip for sex ed or even for your kids? They should do the same thing for the gay thing. For a species to thrive it needs to have male and female parts to reproduce, so why teach something that would not benefit the species? I am not against gay people. I am just against my kids being forced to think that it is something that they might have to look into and that it might be "cool".
For many parents of military personnel, a flag
--
It seemingly is hard for a lot of parents to understand....(sm)

as that idea is obviously either not being taught or just doesn't work.  If that were working, this wouldn't be an issue.