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No boyfriend sleepovers for parents in Michigan...sm

Posted By: Democrat on 2005-12-23
In Reply to:

Dad Pans Girlfriend Sleepover Ban

DETROIT, Dec. 22, 2005










 (AP / CBS)


Quote


This antiquated law allows the state to unconstitutionally interfere with a parent's relationship with his or her children.




Kary Moss, executive director, ACLU of Michigan



(AP) A divorced father will fight a ruling that keeps his girlfriend away from their Michigan home when his children visit overnight, the state chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union said Wednesday.

The ACLU said it would appeal to the state Supreme Court on behalf of Christian Muller, whose ex-wife sought the court order based on an 1838 state law that makes lewd and lascivious cohabitation a crime. Michigan is one of only seven states with such a law on the books, the ACLU said.

This antiquated law allows the state to unconstitutionally interfere with a parent's relationship with his or her children, said Kary Moss, executive director of the ACLU of Michigan.

Muller shares legal custody of his two daughters, ages 5 and 7, with his former wife, Nicolette Muller.

Oakland County Judge Daniel Patrick O'Brien ordered that both parents be prohibited from having overnight visitation with their children when they have unrelated overnight guests of the opposite sex.

The latest appeal argues that the Court of Appeals decision conflicts with its prior rulings and with the Child Custody Act of 1970, and relies on an unconstitutional statute — the 1838 state law.

Elizabeth Silverman, an attorney who had represented Nicolette Muller, said Wednesday her services had not been retained for the latest appeal.

A home telephone number could not be found for Nicolette Muller, who lives in southeastern Michigan.



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My mom's boyfriend used to take me

to the local high school where they had a firing range and taught me to shoot all calibers of handguns. I couldn't handle the 44 Magnum, though. Too heavy.


Anyway, he did it because DH was going to be away for 3 months and he thought I might need protection. I was a good shot, too. Hit the bull's eye quite a few times. I took all the targets home and taped them to my windows and doors with a little sign "This may happen to you if you enter without permission." Never had a problem.


I wish he would have willed me a handgun, or else given me one. I really liked the snubnose 38. I want to get one, but can't afford it. . . .and by the way, I WOULD use it if necessary. Better them than me.


I know. It's heartbreaking. My ex-boyfriend's...

son was born with Agent Orange.  He's extremely mentally challenged and has a severe cleft palate.  He is the sweetest boy with the biggest heart, and I'm very grateful for having had the privilege of knowing him.


Vietnam vets got treated very badly by America on many fronts.  At least, hopefully Americans have learned a lesson by separating the politics of the war from the soldiers themselves.  Any time I meet a "Nam vet," the first thing I say is, "Welcome home."  Just those two words bring tears to their eyes frequently.


We've (I hope) gotten smarter and realize these soldiers are putting their lives on the line for us, and it's the Commander-in-Chief who is ultimately to blame (or praise) for the orders given to these soldiers.


I feel sorry for her poor boyfriend - how do you spell
Her poor daughter probably wouldn't be in the preggers predicament if mamma had taught her about birth control instead of 'abstinence'.
The boyfriend's My Space page disappeared too. nm
.
The boyfriend never graduated high school.
nm
Aww dang it! I looove polar bears. My boyfriend will fix that too! nm
x
Three months after birth of baby Trip, SP's daughter and boyfriend kaput!
Now did anyone see that coming or is that just something out of the blue? My goodness, would have never believed that. They really seemed like good heads on their shoulders, graduates, college bound, career-minded, responsible. Really shocking to me.
Michigan
I live here in Michigan and we have the highest unemployment in the US. My husband got laid off right after Christmas and I have had no work since the beginning of January working for the Q, so I also am on unemployment. We are really struggling and worried about putting food on the table and paying the bills. Too much stress! We don't eat out at all or go shopping for anything that is not a necessity. Things are horrible here, everyone is hurting. I actually saw a lawyer this morning and am considering filing bankruptcy which I don't want to do but I really don't have a choice. We just keep praying that things get better which is about all we can do.
What are your opinions on Fla and Michigan

I keep hearing about HC wanting to push on getting Florida and Michigan votes to count, delegates to be seated, etc.  While I understand about every vote should count and they should, I also understand that Fla & Mich agreed on this so that they could vote early (i.e. they broke the rules and were punished) and both sides (Obama & Clinton) agreed to it.  I guess at that time she thought that the whole US was just going to vote for her and nobody would vote for Obama and now that she is seeing otherwise she wants to change the rules/laws.


Now I don't even understand why there is a meeting going on.  Doesn't anyone just tell them...No!  You agreed to this.  You were told of the consequences and you agreed and now that your losing you want to change the laws to be put in your favor.  Every time they don't win they want to change the rules, and I dont understand why they are not just being told "No".  If they are so concerned about all the votes counting why didn't they just wait until when they were supposed to vote and not push it earlier.  I can tell you - because they thought they would be winning more states and they didn't care enough about Fla or Mich to wait.


Now I understand that she is going to go to the meeting and push that even with FL and MI she doesn't have enough votes, but she's now going to push for them to just dismiss Obama (even though he has more delagates and votes, and states won), that they should just dump him and make her the nominee because she believes she can win over McCain. She really needs to wake up.  She's just like her husband - a legend in their own minds.  If she steals this from Obama and becomes the nominee (which I doubt very very much) but if she was to be able to finagle that so much dirt would come out going all the way back to Whitewater, Rose Law Firm, etc, etc,


Maybe what they should be doing is taking responsibility and telling the citizens of FL & MI the real reason why their votes are not being counted - because of her and her decisions she made and if they blame anyone they should blame her for not following the laws.


And on another side cannot anyone tell me why in the world Obama's name was not on the ticket in MI.  I have not for the life of me figured out that one.  Only her name was on the ticket?  Helloooo....the last time I looked there were two candidates.  Now they are trying to say Obama removed his name from the ticket.  Yeah, right, tell me another one.  I hear that and I think, what country do we live in where the person who wants to be president has only their name on the ballot.  That's what I hear happens in Cuba, Russia and all those other communist countries.


When wil the insanity end?


 


 


Michigan is in a depression.
I was born and raised in Michigan.  Your state has been hit hard.  I live in the Northwest and in my neighborhood, I have 8 new families who have moved in and guess where they are from?  Michigan.  A lot of my family members in Michigan believe that the Oil companies should bail out the 3 car companies, not from taxpayers money.  Family members do not seem to care if the car companies fold because they are already in worse shape.  My cousin, last family relative working for the GM, took an early retirement package given to him 2-3 weeks BEFORE the financial crisis hit US.  He was very lucky.  I have family members considering moving to the Northwest and 1 family already is here and just love it. 
am originally from Michigan sm
Oakland County and alot of my reltives still live there.  Some are retired from GM.  It is really bad up there.  Lots of folks on my sister's street with no jobs and more losing jobs every day.  I was up there in September and the houses for sale are unreal!
Being that I live in Michigan and s/m

have a father that retired from General Motors and have a lot of friends that have either retired from there or currently work there, it is a big combination of blame.  I blame the union, General Motors and the employees for letting a lot of this happen.  GM paid the "fat cats" (that is what they are called around here) big money for skilled trades for them to sit around and do nothing, literally nothing.  It is a big joke around here that some go and clock in and turn around and go straight to a bar and then go back to clock out.  If they are needed, someone will call their cell and let them know they are needed. 


It has been common for years to allow employees to work 70/80 hour weeks, massive overtime and my father was one of them.  He was making over $130k a year, if not more when he retired.  I know it was hard physically on him to do it, but he said that he mostly read on the job and exercised.  A friend's husband goes to work to sleep.


I am not saying that everyone does this, but a majority of them do and it is a real shame.  I know the ones on the lines cannot do it, but the skilled trades can and do.  If the salaried employees complain, then the union gets involved and they still get to keep their jobs no matter how many times they are written up.  It takes a lot to get an employee fired. 


Just think, something breaks on the line, so they call in the skilled trades guy who has been at the bar drinking, he comes and fixes whatever is wrong, creating a quality problem and then GM has to charge so much money to cover the expenses.  And we wonder why they are over priced? And they want to be bailed out?  No thank you!


The GM execs have been getting millions of dollars in bonuses for years as well and the employees get a nice check before Xmas as well for a bonus.  They should have been like any other company and budgeted their money.  Shame on them.  If they had quality vehicles at a reasonable price, people wouldn't be buying foreign cars.  I personally do drive a GM vehicle because of the discount that I get from my dad.  Otherwise, I would probably be buying foreign as well, you get what you pay for. 


Sorry to rant, but living in a GM town and not working there, you can get a different perspective on things than what is shown in the news/media.  Forgive me if I have offended anyone.


What?? Where's Michigan? Oh, yeah...
We have the Big 3 and Detroit. 'Nuf said.
Michigan is in a one state recession. sm
The big 3 are tanking, our unemployment numbers are higher than the nation as a whole, jobs are leaving like the spring thaw, and who does Obama pick as part of his "Financial Advisory Committee"....none other than our wonderful governor, Jennifer Granholm. She can't advise her own state let alone the country. She now says that we have to cut the budget even more than last time. There isn't a whole lot left to cut. Our education system is absolutely the pits, Detroit is bankrupting us all, and she gets picked for part of the financial advisory committee. Makes me wonder what's going in Obama's head.

Oh well, at least I have a trade I can take with me where ever I go. The ultimate in healthcare portability.
Michigan is a right to work state a well s/m
But if you have a union behind (once upon a time the union had much pull), it took a lot to get you fired. 
The last sentence is particularly worrisome for Michigan.....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/18/AR2009061804053.html?wpisrc=newsletter

Senate's Health-Care Draft Calls for Most to Buy Insurance, Nixes Obama's 'Public Option'

By Lori Montgomery and Shailagh Murray
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, June 19, 2009

A draft proposal in the Senate to overhaul the nation's health-care system would require most people to buy health insurance, authorize an expansion of Medicaid coverage and create consumer-owned cooperative plans instead of the government coverage that President Obama is seeking.

The document, distributed among members of the Senate Finance Committee yesterday afternoon, addressed none of the funding questions that have consumed House and Senate negotiators in recent days. But it included an array of coverage provisions that were drastically scaled back from earlier versions, as lawmakers seek to shrink the bill's overall cost. The proposal, for instance, would reduce the pool of middle-class beneficiaries eligible for a new tax credit meant to make insurance more affordable.

The absence of a "public option" marks perhaps the most significant omission. Obama and many Democrats had sought a public option to ensure affordable, universal coverage, but as many as 10 Senate Democrats have protested the idea as unfair to private insurers. In its place, the draft circulated yesterday outlines a co-op approach modeled after rural electricity and telecom providers, subject to government oversight and funded with federal seed money.

Yesterday, Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.) met with four Republicans, including Sen. Charles Grassley (Iowa), the ranking GOP member on the panel, along with two Democratic colleagues in an attempt to find bipartisan consensus. Baucus dubbed the group "the coalition of the willing."

Meanwhile, in the House, Democrats are exploring a range of funding options, including a surtax on the rich and an increase in the payroll tax imposed on all U.S. workers. The list also includes new taxes on sugary drinks and alcohol, along with broader levies, such as a national value-added tax of up to 3 percent.

The Senate's preferred option -- taxing the health benefits that millions of Americans receive through their employers -- is also on the House list. So is Obama's favorite idea: limiting the value of itemized deductions for the nation's wealthiest 3 million taxpayers.

Rep. Richard Neal (D-Mass.), chairman of the Ways and Means subcommittee charged with developing a financing plan, said lawmakers have not "embraced any particular source of revenue." But he confirmed that big, broad-based taxes like the payroll tax and a value-added tax are under discussion, mainly because they have the potential to raise "a lot of money" for an expansion of health coverage expected to cost more than $1 trillion over the next decade.

The House will not unveil a financing plan until after the July 4 recess, Neal said, though House leaders were expected to release an outline of the rest of their plan today, with a goal of putting a bill to vote later this summer. The Senate is aiming to debate its legislation in July as well, and is seeking a bill that would cost less than $1 trillion.

Maintaining that tight schedule could prove difficult, though, because daunting issues remain in both chambers. One area of contention is the extent to which private employers must subsidize public coverage for their workers if the companies don't offer their own plan or if the premiums are unaffordable. The Congressional Budget Office has warned that if lawmakers don't find the right formula, employees may flee their company plans for federal coverage, sending government costs soaring.

The draft in the Senate committee spells out one possible solution: It would require employers to pay 50 percent of Medicaid costs for workers enrolled in the low-income program and 100 percent of the cost of health-insurance tax credits for eligible employees. Workers could forfeit employer coverage only if the cost exceeds 12.5 percent of their income.

The draft, earlier reported on by washingtonpost.com blogger Ezra Klein, spells out four options for requiring employers to provide coverage, with exemptions for firms with up to 200 employees. It would fine individuals who do not purchase coverage, though certain groups, including Native Americans and undocumented workers, would be exempted.

It also would loosen eligibility requirements for Medicaid, a proposal certain to alarm many governors who are grappling with budget crises.





Michigan Police Officer's Take on Obama...
This was forwarded to me by a boyhood friend who is a retired cop.

Please pass this along to everyone that you have on your e-mail list because this is just the beginning if this arrogant, egotistical, super liberal, president wannabe gets into office....

To all,

I have read all of the emails from not only some of the MTOA board members, but from other Law Enforcement & Military personnel about Barack Obama's rudeness and what seems to be disgust for basically anyone in uniform. Well, it's my turn to add to the list of emailers and here it is:

So members of the Calhoun County Sheriff's Department, Michigan State Police, (me included) and other local agencies inside Calhoun County are working with Secret Service in the security of Mr. Obama. Mr. Obama's bus arrives in Battle Creek and pulls into the stadium area. Before Mr. Obama exits the bus, he has the Secret Service get off and tell all Law Enforcement personnel in uniform that they now have to stand behind the bus so Mr. Obama is not seen with anyone in a Law Enforcement uniform before he gets off or while in the public view. So, everyone from Michigan State Police, Sheriff's Departments and other agencies look at each other for a brief second, go and stand behind the bus out of sight so Mr. Obama does not have to see, or been seen with, what to him is 'undesirables' since he refuses to been seen or even acknowledge Military or Law Enforcement personnel in uniform. And he wants to be our commander-in-chief!


At a time of war and terrorism in our world, this presidential candidate who is being protected by various branches of the military & law enforcement at the tax payers expense, refuses to acknowledge, be seen with, have in his photographed background, any type of Military or Law Enforcement in uniform.

But this is not in the headlines or in the news or on TV. The TV news doesn't show us marching around behind the bus. In the future, look and see if you can see a single soldier or police officer in uniform when you see Obama. Why? I wonder what the story or media frenzy would be if it was Muslims, blacks, whites, Jews, or any other race, gender, religion, and/or occupation, that Mr. Obama refused to be seen with or have around him.

Why would I make this up? Everyone in Law Enforcement knows we have traditionally had more funding under Democrats.

Just food for thought leading up to November 4th.

Jason Kern
Michigan Tactical Officer's Association
Michigan State Police

Executive Board Member

Stand in line behind Michigan. Our roads are probably almost as bad. sm
And we have the highest gas tax in the country that is supposed to take care of that. However, with Michigan being a 1 state recession and/or depression, roads might be the least of our worries.
Michigan will lose big time if no bailout
Here in Michigan 7 out of 10 jobs are related to the auto industry.  I don't know if the bailout is the right thing to do or not, but if the auto industry fails, Michigan will be in big trouble.  We already have the highest unemployment rates in the country and I believe the highest foreclosure rate.  I do believe most of the high executives need to go, their salaries and "benefits" are unbelievable with the bonuses, stock options, etc.
I heard this today.....and I live in Michigan....
Some governors are not going to take the stimulus money because there are too many strings attached to it. Well never fear......our wonderfully liberal Jennifer Granholm, who takes from the west side to give to the east side, has so nicely volunteered to take all the money that other governors have turned down and put it to good use. Not that we couldn't use it, but.....


DH and I live in Michigan. We called Hoekstra, Levin, and Stabenow....
We told them that they no longer had our vote as they voted FOR the "porkulus" bill, they voted for the first bailout, and had not accomplished anything for their constituents in ages. We also told them that we were going to get all our friends and friends of friends to vote for whoever runs against them. Levin has been in politics since Hector was a pup and the state of Michigan has nothing to show for it. Our unemployment rate is higher than the national average, our jobs have been leaving left and right, the Big 3 are tanking, our economy is tanking, and yet Levin and his cronies still keep sticking it to the little people.

And people ask if there is a recession? Michigan is in it's own one-state recession.
The whole country would crash and burn. Do you know how many jobs in Michigan alone are auto related
Michigan might as well hang a sign on the door saying last one out, turn out the lights. But then if Obama has his way, we won't have any electricity either because the coal companies will be bankrupted too. Domino effect in my opinion.
Thank God there are parents who do not think as you.
x
Me too! My parents both Democrats....
the Zell Miller kind. THAT Democratic party is no more.
It wasn't the parents
It was the caretakers in the orphanages that physically and sexually abused these children and subsequently murdered them (approximately 1910-1940). The parents gave them up because they could not care for them. There are drugs that cause miscarriage. That is abortion. There are natural causes for miscarriage (dilating cervix, the fetus is still alive). That is abortion. Overturning Roe vs. Wade will not improve the quality of life for anyone. There will just be more backroom abortions and more unwanted children eking out a miserable existence. Like I said, I will leave the judgment part up to God. And abortion isn't the only thing they want abolished  -  birth control is on the list, too. I guess married couples should just abstain from sex after they have had their required amount of religiously acceptable children. Some countries impose abortion on their women, I guess we are lucky not to have been born in one of those countries, otherwise, we'd burn in heck!
I asked my parents about this
and they both laughed at me. My father comes from a very politically involved family. My dad tells me things were very charged when Kennedy ran and especially when Nixon ran. He has especially bad memories of the Nixon campaign.
that is, if the child does not want the parents to know at all
xx
I don't believe that the language of your parents. sm
has anything to do with being qualified to be the POTUS. We are about to have a POTUS whose father was not a US citizen.
But till the age of 18, it is the PARENTS
who decide what is, according to their opinion, better or worse.

And this applies also to abortion, if you like it or not.

Because there are responsible parents out there who think that producing a child entails also RAISING this child and not giving it up for adoption.

And if they cannot maintain this child, things happen!- they choose pro-choice.


Well, many parents would love to put
their children in Christian schools but you screaming God-hating liberals hate school vouchers.  :)  I suppose you don't mind sending your kids to public education.  You want them to be just like commie, perverted mom.
Elderly parents
I think what we are going to see more of in the future is multiple generations living under one roof. It's going to be the only way anyone will be able to afford to live. They've done this in other countries for years because of the high cost of living. The elderly will not be able to afford to live on their own. Our children will not be able to afford to live on their own because they won't be able to find jobs.
My parents were smart like that too.

My dad worked for GM for 30+ years and retired in his 60s only because he wasn't capable of working anymore.  They paid off their house.  They had one credit card that they paid off every month if they used it.  Dad had cash in the bank, stashed in other places, etc.  Now my dad has been gone for almost 2 years now and my mom is living in her paid off house by herself.  All that hard work that my father did to make sure that she would be taken care of after he was gone and now GM is doing horrible.  Not sure what will happen to my mother's healthcare through GM or the pension my father worked so hard for.  It is truly a shame if his blood, sweat, and tears of 30+ years didn't amount to anything.


A lot of younger people nowadays don't know what it is to work for what you have.  Everyone wants things given to them now and that is a huge reason why I have a problem with welfare.  It doesn't help the people who really need a hand up.  All of these government assistant programs will do nothing but make people more lazy and dependent on others to give to them.  I'd rather work for what I have and tell the government to leave me the heck alone, but that is just me. 


The average American has 10K in credit card debt and  think that is just sad.  My DH and I have one credit card and we pay it off every month.  The only thing we owe on is our house and it sucks that I'm terrified about losing it because the economy is so bad when my DH and I have been nothing but responsible with our money.  We just keep plugging along and hoping that DH's job isn't one of the ones on the chopping block.  If we keeps his job, we will be okay.  However, if he doesn't, especially with a new baby on the way, we are in deep sh!t!


The parents liked the idea of....(sm)

having a website that students could use for their class.  I have no problem with that.  A lot of teachers do that.  AGAIN, the problem is that it was a conservative website. 


Teaching our children partisan politics when they are supposed to be learning history is completely not acceptable.


I also happen to agree that "real" history for the most part is not taught in high school.  You only get the real stuff when you reach college, if you're lucky enough to get a good professor.  However, I doubt very seriously what you call "real history" and the facts would match up.


Valles and these parents see the light....nm
x
Both of my parents were registered Democrats....
I grew up in a Democrat household. That being said...my parents would not recognize the Democratic party as it is today. And they could not be classified as liberals, based on what I hear and see from those who call themselves liberals. I should be more specific I suppose...when I say "liberals" I am referring to those who post here who have identified themselves as liberals, and those I have seen in print and in the media who identify themselves as liberals. That is my basis. Really has nothing to do with registered Democrats...I have no way of knowing if the liberals who post here and identify themselves as such are registered Democrats. Color me confused because I was lamblasted by some who identified themselves as liberals, proceeded to tell me there were no true liberals in the Democratic party (well, that is news to them then, because many of them call themselves liberals). That is when I made the comment that it was hardly to understand what a liberal really was when there are those who define themselves as liberals who are also Democrats and those who define themselves as liberals and say there are no liberals in the democratic party. Yeah...that is a little confusing. However...that being said...when you see me post something about "liberals" I am talking about those I have come into contact with...either in my personal life, on this board, or in print or media...all who have defined themselves as "liberals." Certainly not everyone in the country...have not met them and have no idea what THEIR interpretation of liberal is. I just have to go with what I have experience with. That being said...in my personal life are two stepdaughters who define themselves as liberals, and we have lively debates, believe me. However, I see the same tendencies in them that I see in some here who define themselves as liberal. Doesn't mean we do not care about each other, because we do. We love each other through it. But those who do not have a personal relationship with someone with opposing view...seem to want to demonize the other side. We are all Americans...and we should be able to love each other through it. And as a country we are not doing that...we are doing the opposite, and letting people like Ann Coulter and AL Franken divide us even further...when we should be condemning both. That is all I am saying... :-)
Obama's parents were never married.
Do I have to do ALL the research around here?

Y'all are so naive!
What about parents who don't discuss with their kids?
And so you know right off, I'm not a Barack fan nor McCain fan. However, my own personal beliefs aside, I believe "it takes a village to raise a child" and there are FAR too many parents NOT doing their jobs these days, which forces schools, governments, etc. to jump in to help. I see far too many parents who'd just as soon go to the bar than raise their child. There are parents who are apathetic, and there are parents who are embarrassed or ill-informed themselves to teach their kids sex ed. I don't think sex ed is a problem at all in school, so long as it's in the context of health education and not presented to students in a biased manner of some sort. It IS how mammals reproduce and therefore does have a place in education.

God gave us free will and if you try to control the free will of someone else, how is that right? I believe in consequences of free will when someone chooses wrong, which is why we have laws in place. I don't believe it's any one person's or party's place to tell another how to live their life, period.

Personally, I'd like to see more parents do their jobs at home so gov't and schools didn't have to do it for them (and all the rest of us too as a result), and sure, ideally I'd like to see more kids abstaining from sex altogether. But I'm also a realist and know that my beliefs and willpower aren't the same as everyone else's. That's what is supposed to be great about USA.

The reality is that not all kids have the willpower to abstain in the heat of the moment, no matter WHAT their upbringing or what wonderful parents they have. As you said, it's everywhere - on TV, movies, ads, games, you name it! It's in their face now more than ever, so to ignore it and act like it won't ever happen isn't the answer, either. No, I don't know what the answer is, either, but I don't think that's it.

Also, to take away any access to sex ed and/or birth control at all is in a sense forcing the ideals/morals of one group of people on another and basically taking the free will of the other group - how do you reconcile that? I'm being sincere, as this question plagues me often when considering these issues.
Thank you Amanda..besides, I think that if most parents could send their
child to private schools..and he and his wife are PAYING for it, so what is the problem??
Yes, children are but NOT the ILLEGAL PARENTS...they
--
Parents want to abort Bennett's 3M pact
Parents want to abort Bennett's $3M pact

By MENSAH M. DEAN
deanm@phillynews.com

Philadelphia parents and education activists are
demanding that the city school district end the $3
million contract it awarded in April to K12 Inc., in
light of controversial remarks the company's board
chairman made this week about aborting black babies.

William J. Bennett, chairman of the board of the
Washington-area education company and a former U.S.
Education Secretary, set off protests with remarks he
made during his nationally syndicated radio talk show
Wednesday.

Responding to a caller, Bennett took issue with the
hypothesis put forth in a recent book that one reason
crime is down is that abortion is up. Bennett said:
If you wanted to reduce crime, you could - if that
were your sole purpose - you could abort every black
baby in this country and your crime rate would go
down.

That would be an impossibly ridiculous and morally
reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would
go down, Bennett said.

White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan yesterday
said The president believes the comments were not
appropriate.

Bennett later said his comments had been
mischaracterized and that his point was that the idea
of supporting abortion to reduce crime was morally
reprehensible.

Though some of the Philadelphia school district's top
science teachers raised concerns about K12's
qualifications and experience, the district awarded
the company the contract to supply kindergarten
through third-grade science curriculum materials in
April.

I find it hard to see any explanation for why they're
here in Philadelphia educating many of the black
children Mr. Bennett clearly finds it provocative to
call expendable, said Helen Gym, a mother of a
district third-grader.

I am very rarely struck speechless anymore. However,
I could not get words out of my mouth this morning
when I realized that my school district is somehow
providing support to this company, said Ellayne
Bender, mother of a district 11th-grader.

On a moral level, as a human being, Bender added, I
would like to see the contract voided.

Last fall, Bennett publicly touted district schools
CEO Paul Vallas as a good candidate to become the next
U.S. Secretary of Education. Last night, however,
Vallas stepped away from the man with whom he had been
cordial.

I read his comments, and his comments are outrageous
and offensive to all of us, Vallas said of Bennett.
We do not have a relationship with Bill Bennett. Our
contract is with K12, who are doing an excellent job
in our schools. In my opinion, any extension of the
contract could be jeopardized by his continued
presence on the board.

The length of the contract was not immediately known.

Bennett was education secretary under President Reagan
and director of drug control policy when Bush's father
was president.


I can't begin to imagine what the parents must feel.
I would be so enraged if I were in their position that I'm not sure what I'd do. I hope I would remember that keeping my family together and supporting my child (or children if there are siblings) has to be a priority, but on the other hand, to know that this monster is free to walk the streets and do this to other children... I'm not sure I wouldn't do whatever was necessary to put him either behind bars or underground. I certainly couldn't condemn a parent in that situation who made that choice.

I really hope there is enough uproar over this to change things. Otherwise, what choice do people have to protect their children but to take the law into their own hands? These judges (and legislators, for that matter) need to realize that, like guards in a prison, government rules by consent of the governed. Fail to protect the governed or to enforce reasonable laws in a just manner, and the governed will assume control one way or another. I am not an anarchist by any means, but law and order is one of the most basic governmental responsibilities. We can argue til the cows come home about everything else we would or wouldn't like the government involved in, but if they fail on too large a scale in this most basic duty, vigilantism and anarchy become inevitable.
I don't care how much the parents make per year...

Their kids still deserve affordable healthcare.  You keep talking about people making $80,000 per year, and yes that is a lot of money, and more than double what I make, but those people can still get into trouble with medical bills of $100,000 to $200,000, and is it fair for that hard-working upper-middle-class family to have to sell their house simply to pay medical bills for a sick child?  Not in my personal opinion.


Some people don't prioritize their spending well - I agree with you there, but should their kids suffer health-wise because of their parents horrible spending habits? Is it fair that many parents have to take a 2nd job simply to pay for their health insurance premiums?  Is it fair that they cannot afford to take simple family vacations because ALL of their money goes to bills and health insurance?  Is it right that many parents don't spend quality time with their children at night and aren't there to help their kids with their homework because they have had to take a 2nd job to cover health care for the family?  For most families it is not a choice between cable TV and healthcare.  Cable TV costs about $60 to $100 per month.  Health insurance premiums can be upwards of $1000 per month plus additional costs.  $12,000 per year on cable TV?  I don't think so.


I personally don't go out and buy extravagant things, and that is fine with me.  I can barely afford to take the kids on a weekend trip to the museum in the next town, but I know if I keep working hard someday I might be able to take my kids on more trips and broaden their herizons a bit more.  In the meantime, we have a lot of love to go around, and I know that is what kids needs most, but I long for the freedom to show them a little more of the beautiful state we live in without having to worry about a $1000 per month health insurance premium.


I was raised by very conservative, strict parents. - sm
But once you get beyond high school, and into college or out into the working world, you meet so many different kinds of people. I'd be lying if I said I got along with all of them (or even maybe most of them?) But in my own experience, beginning back when I met the first gay person I ever knew (he had his own horse, and he let me ride it all the time), my personal friendships have been good ones. I wouldn't trade any of them for anything, and feel sad when I think they sometimes have to live certain aspects of their lives as ƈnd-class' citizens. Especially when each and every one contributes so much to society, and to life in general. So I really have no idea, as well.
I agree - parents are always proud of their children
And I guess if all the Billy Boy Clinton fans think its okay for Billy to say the things he is about his daughter (who has never been involved in politics herself) then I think Bush Sr. can think highly of his sons too.
If my grandparents and great parents were alive
They would slap me upside the head and say "Snap out of it. When I was your age I had to walk to school in the snow without a coat and shoes up hill - both ways". My grandmother would then call me pannywaste (whatever that is but when someone was wimpy she'd call them that), and my other grandmother would call me wimpy, whoos, or other words like that.

Our grandparents went through a depression, a couple of wars. They went hungry and went without. My grandfather told me his family was so poor he didn't even have shoes to go to school in. He had to wait for his brother to outgrow his so he could inherit them. They went through worse than us and they survived and they didn't have any government office telling them how to get through it.

I wonder if this new website was part of the spendulous plan (is this where our tax money is going?).

When are people who have any power to be able to do anything going to say enough is enough, your all fired. When people are inept and destroying a country (oops, mean corporation), it's time to fire them. Not them them spend more years in the seats continuing to put the country in ruins.
If my grandparents and great parents were alive
They would slap me upside the head and say "Snap out of it. When I was your age I had to walk to school in the snow without a coat and shoes up hill - both ways". My grandmother would then call me pannywaste (whatever that is but when someone was wimpy she'd call them that), and my other grandmother would call me wimpy, whoos, or other words like that.

Our grandparents went through a depression, a couple of wars. They went hungry and went without. My grandfather told me his family was so poor he didn't even have shoes to go to school in. He had to wait for his brother to outgrow his so he could inherit them. They went through worse than us and they survived and they didn't have any government office telling them how to get through it.

I wonder if this new website was part of the spendulous plan (is this where our tax money is going?).

When are people who have any power to be able to do anything going to say enough is enough, your all fired. When people are inept and destroying a country (oops, mean corporation), it's time to fire them. Not them them spend more years in the seats continuing to put the country in ruins.
just like sex ed, they should make kids parents decide
ever remember having to have a permission slip for sex ed or even for your kids? They should do the same thing for the gay thing. For a species to thrive it needs to have male and female parts to reproduce, so why teach something that would not benefit the species? I am not against gay people. I am just against my kids being forced to think that it is something that they might have to look into and that it might be "cool".
For many parents of military personnel, a flag
--
It seemingly is hard for a lot of parents to understand....(sm)

as that idea is obviously either not being taught or just doesn't work.  If that were working, this wouldn't be an issue.


 


Another post below mentioned Hardball. This is an interview with parents

of a Marine who was killed this week in Iraq.  Here is the transcript of the show.  I think it's very compelling.  These people certainly gave the ultimate sacrifice, and to me, their views are very important. 


The interview with Ken Allard is also very interesting. This can all be found at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8838904/


MATTHEWS: Tonight, we begin with the parents of Lance Corporal Edward Schroeder, who was among the 14 Marines who lost their lives in yesterday's attack in Iraq. His parents, Rosemary Palmer and Paul Schroeder, join me now from their home outside Cleveland.

Well, it's a terrible thing to do, but I want to talk to you both about the war in Iraq and the loss of your son.

Ms. Palmer, did you sense that this war was very dangerous for your son, even before yesterday?


ROSEMARY PALMER, MOTHER OF KILLED U.S. MARINE: Well, war is always dangerous. And there were so many deaths that it was starting to mount to the point where I was actually thinking yesterday that if Auggie (ph) were not among the 14 killed, I was almost to the point of calling the Department of Defense and just saying, for mental health reasons, he had to come home, that I couldn't handle it anymore. It was just too much.


MATTHEWS: What made you feel that the danger was growing?


PALMER: Well, it's the old game of the fewer. And the 325 unit that he's in has been having more and more casualties. And if you have fewer guys and the same number of people, well, then, the other—the chances are growing that your person is going to be the one that's hit.


MATTHEWS: Let me ask you, Mr. Schroeder, why do you think we're in this war? What do you think is the real reason for this war in Iraq?


PAUL SCHROEDER, FATHER OF KILLED U.S. MARINE: Well, I really don't know why. I could guess, which might be unfair. But I would guess it has to do with oil. It has to do with deposing a dictator that we used to love and came to hate.


MATTHEWS: Yes.


SCHROEDER: That goes on repeatedly.


MATTHEWS: What did your son say was his motivation for fighting? Was it just patriotism to our country or a belief in the mission?


SCHROEDER: He did not have a motivation to fight. He had a motivation to do his duty to the Marine Corps and to be part of the Marines. His entire life was devoted to doing what he promised he would do.


MATTHEWS: What did he tell you...


(CROSSTALK)


MATTHEWS: What did he say about how the war was going?


SCHROEDER: Well, early on, when his unit arrived there in March, he was talking about the friendly Iraqi people. After May and June, he stopped talking about the friendly people, not that they weren't friendly. But he stopped talking about it.
Two weeks ago, in the last conversation I had with him, he simply said, the closer we get to coming home, the less worth it this is.


MATTHEWS: How did you interpret that?


SCHROEDER: I took that to mean that his participation in Operation Matador, Operation New Market, Operation Sword, Operation Spear, and a couple others that I don't know the names of were failing. And that's, basically, the operations were intended to go into these towns, kick out the insurgents, take their weapons, arrest whoever they could, and then they would withdraw.

They only had to go back and find more insurgents in the same places. The fact that these 14 fellows were blown up indicates to me, logic would say, that this policy, this strategy, this tactic has failed.


MATTHEWS: Let me go to Rosemary...


SCHROEDER: If it was successful, if it was successful, then he would still be alive, as would all those other kids.


(CROSSTALK)


MATTHEWS: Rosemary, let me ask you about the—what is your feeling about this war and the goal of trying to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people? And do you think that was a smart thing for us to try to do?


PALMER: It was a very naive thing for us to do.

You don't go to another culture and try to impose yours and expect it to work. We're not Iraqis. We don't have the same culture. And while I understand that we're a multicultural nation, we don't act like it sometimes. We act like the whole world thinks exactly the way we do.


MATTHEWS: Do you think that the war is going to get any better now that your son—I mean, you have paid the ultimate price? And, by the way, thank you. I don't know what it means to say thank you for your service, except I mean it. The courage of these young guys and some women over there is unbelievable. And I guess everybody wonders about the conduct of the war, whether they're being—these lives are being wasted or these lives are being put to good purpose.
What is your feeling about that now?

PALMER: Well, I personally believe that, since it is not working, then we have to make a change, that it is not worth the sacrifice if it is just more bodies on to the heap.

Like President Bush said, he wanted to stay the course and honor the memory of the ones who died by continuing to fight. If it didn't work before, why does fighting more—you know, you do the same thing over and over, that's—expecting a different result is, I think, the explanation of insanity.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

Well, the way you describe it, it is like pouring water into a sand hole on the beach and having it drain right through and start over again. It seems like a repetitive process that doesn't seem to be getting anywhere.

PALMER: Exactly.

SCHROEDER: Well, the repetitive process has been going on for 27 months, since the active invasion phase ended, 27 months of doing the same thing over and over and over again, with no evidence that it is getting better.

If there were evidence it was getting better—and I have yet to see it—and I—frankly, if it was getting better, these fellows would still be alive after all of this strenuous effort. Then it is time to make a change. Either put the number of troops on the ground that you need to really do the job or get the heck out.

MATTHEWS: Do you have a sense...

SCHROEDER: We have a saying—we have a saying in the Midwest, piss or get off the pot.

MATTHEWS: Do you have a sense, because of your son's tremendous, permanent, total sacrifice of his life and his experience in these months fighting this war, that the middle-level officers, the majors, the captains, do they have a sense of a clear vision of what they're getting done over there?

SCHROEDER: I can't speak to those fellows. I have great respect for the Marine officers at that level and the sergeants who made these troops, great respect.
I would tell you that they probably are frustrated, just like a lot of the ground troops, the lance corporals and the privates are. I would say that one thing that we have to make crystal clear, which is why we agreed to talk today, is that there is a—you cannot equate. There is a clear difference between supporting the troops on the ground and supporting the policies that put them there.

The president likes to make those—to equate those two things. If you don't support the war, you don't support the troops. And too many American people are buying into that. I don't buy into that. Rosemary doesn't buy into that. It is time that we say, look, we can support the troops all until the cows come home.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHROEDER: We don't support the policies that put them there.

MATTHEWS: You two have more right to answer this question than anybody else in the country today. After reading those headline—and to most of us, they're just headlines. They're American G.I.s, Marines in this case, giving their lives for their country, 20-some this week, in that one part of the country in Iraq.

What should be the reaction of the American people who pick up their newspapers, watch television, and learn of these horrors? What should they do as a result of seeing that news, Mr. Schroeder?

SCHROEDER: They should stand up and tell President Bush, enough is enough. You've had your chance. Now let somebody else come up with a different plan. If you can't come up with a different plan that is going to work, in my view, that is more troops, then get out.

MATTHEWS: Rosemary, is that your view? Is that how we, all of us, not in the news business, regular Americans from your part of the country, across the country, getting this horrible news, how should they react to it?

PALMER: Well, I think most people are just saying, you know, the latter, just get out, because it is clearly—well, it is obvious that the politicians are not going to institute a draft. And with the number of deaths and the dangers being what they are, they are not going to get the recruits.

So, therefore, if you can't—you can't get enough guys to do the fighting, well, then you have to get out. Do it or get out of the game.

MATTHEWS: I got you. I heard your views and they sound similar.
Thank you very much for this hour of—this time of anguish, to be giving this information. I think the public needs to hear from folks like you.
Thank you very much, Rosemary Palmer and Paul Schroeder, who lost their son, Lance Corporal Edward Schroeder, just today, last 24 hours.
We'll be right back with HARDBALL.


Great solution. Skip healthcare for the parents.
Because it is great for kids to be motherless and fatherless?  Right.  I actually do not have any health insurance, and since I put my kids first (who are covered btw), that is okay for now, but should I really have to do without?  I agree tax refunds would be good for people who pay health insurance, but I think a better solution would be for government to force the health insurance companies to offer more affordable, straight-forward plans.  WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE SO AGAINST FREE OR AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE FOR KIDS WHO DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE WHAT INCOME LEVEL/INTELLIGENCE LEVEL THEIR PARENTS ARE.  I am a broken record here.  I don't care what argument you give me, I will still believe that government should cover all kids, just like it already covers all poor people.  Does a poor adult deserve better healthcare than a middle-income child?  No, of course not, but God forbid someone raise your taxes (even though they will continue to rise regardless) to fund health care for kids.