actually your thought is very thoughtful...
Posted By: sooner than later on 2008-09-12
In Reply to: Actually, your post here is very thoughtful...sm - ms
I have been a Democrat for as long as I canb remember, and at the age of 51 years I find myself no longer wanting to be a Democrat, and I certainly do not want to be Republican. There are many valid points in your post; they make a lot of sense. I see this country going straight to the highest bidder; we are quickly becoming a Third World country and it's heartbreaking. Many of us here come from a background of hardworking, honest families, our parents raising us with what they had, and honestly, most of them did not have much. I too am extremely fristrated at the fact that some people on assistance fare better than the most of us who get up, rain or shine, to do what's expected - WORK. I know people on assistance who have said 'why work when I don't have to?..wtf!!?!?!?!!?
A good friend of mine who is a Social Worker has related to me time and time again that it makes her so upset and angry to have people come into her place of work getting assistance who are driving new cars, living in better housing than she is, etc. I too could go on and on but in my many years of living and paying taxes - SOCIAL PROGRAMS ARE INDEED A FORM OF SLAVERY and have hindered more than helped. I was a young mother and I was on assistance for only three years, and in that three years I did go to school, get training to become a MT and with the grace of the one above - WORKED. I also have MS; have had it since 1990 and if I did not have the health plan I have, my Avonex would cost $1,200/month. My MS is progressing but I am working but in Jan 2009 with the advent of voice recognition, my job will be no more. I was even told by my neurologist that I am not 'sick' enough to be placed on Social Security Disability; so I wonder what will happen when I no longer have a job, cannot afford my meds? It's frightening to say the least but I just think its criminal that someone who does not want to work can go to the nearest county assistance office and get help when I know I would be given the 3rd degree if I needed help. There is a LOT wrong with THAT
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Very thoughtful post...
....and I too, have tried to be objective, and listen to all sides.
But what I come away with, is this:
1. Economy. Neither one knows much about how it works. Obama was just a lot of rhetoric again last night (so my husband said, as I had to work). But if you really, really listen to him, he and Michelle are all about class warfare and class envy, and being for the little guy, when they are the big guy, and really on the opposite side of most of the people who think that they can "save" them in all things and make them completely dependent on the govt for work, jobs, healthcare, etc. That's a welfare state, and I DO NOT want a govt who has control over every aspect of my life. Give me tax cuts across the board for all, not just the poor and middle class (the poor don't pay taxes anyway, so really, they're not getting a tax break from nothing, are they?). Wait and see if you only tax the rich more..they alrady pay most of the taxes anyway...but there go the jobs for the poor and middle class, if the wealthy can't afford to stay in business....Tax cuts for all is proven to stimulate all aspects of the economy. More taxes, on just the rich, will not.
2. Foreign affairs. Picking Biden was a mistake. While trying to compensate for his own lack of experience, he picks someone with experience...but he is more of the same in Washington....when Obama is supposed to be about change...I don't think I need to explain that one..
3. Health care...yeah, it's a mess, but keep the govt out of it, please. It'll be worse, much worse if they are involved. Socialized medicine does not work.
4. Iraq. They're kicking us out anyway, and we're leaving anyway, so for Obama to say he will get us out of Iraq, is a non-issue, because it is going to be happen without him, and the next prez will be bringing most of them home anyway.
5. I do feel we are safer post 9/11. Bush has kept us safer than you or I will ever know. But truly, I do not want a president who will "talk" to our enemies, and make them see reason. Obama doesn't feel like we're threatened by any of these terrorists, and he is wrong. And you don't talk to terrorists.
6. No, being imprisoned in a POW camp does not make you qualified to run a country. But the character that shapes and defines you from that experience, does. He was a leader when he refused to be granted release early, and insisted on every POW to be released before him in the order they were captured. That took courage, and character.
I believe McCain has more strength of character than Obama.
Yes, I agree with you that Obama seems like a good, family man, that says that he has only our best interests at heart. That's doesn't make him ready to lead a country. And I shudder to think of a more socialist welfare state, that he wants to put us all in.
Actually, your post here is very thoughtful...sm
and quite frankly, these days on this board, it's all a big joke to a lot of the democrats, you must agree with me on that one. What they see as jokes, and crude comparisons, usually are just plain crude, and are quite free with their zingers. I was trying to stay with the Halloween season, as I believe that last one from them was something about pig masks and lipstick for halloween. But I digress. My post was meant as a joke, but obviously not taken as one. My apologies to whoever mistook me.
But seriously, though, almost anytime there is a serious debate here, there's a few women on this board, with, shall we say, slight leftward leanings, who swoop down and ridicule the republican posters. Just watch...they are waiting to descend as oon as they see my post.....
They did it to me last night. Why would I want to engage anyone in that kind of senseless attack
As for your thoughtful post, I disagree with most of it, although I am polite enough to allow you your views.
Freedom to choose, freedom to post, freedom to be kind, freedom for hope and change.....
I'm not a rich republican. But I sure want to be able to think for myself, and work for myself, and take care of myself. I don't want any part of the socialism reform that Mr. Obama wants to bring about. I say no to big government. I say no to tax cuts that are really just a one time rebate to the poor, and then everything else will be hiked.
I say help people to help themselves. Don't keep them down on the "so called" welfare plantation. Enable them to help themselves, not take care of them from cradle to grave.
I applied for unemployment once, in my early 20s. It was an extremely horribly feeling, putting myself in the hands of someone who got to decide if I was telling the truth, and deserved to have unemployment. Much as I imagine it feels for those who have to apply for welfare, and social services.
But there are programs there for those that need them now. Those that need them, can have those services. We don't need bigger, and more of them.
Health reform? Yes, health care needs reforming. But social medicine doesn't work. Ask all the people in Canada that die before they can get in to see their specialist. Ask all the MS patients who can only have one drug prescribed that is covered under their social programs...they have to pay for everything else out of their pocket. I just did a tape on that very thing...shocking how long one has to wait for health care in a social society.
Social societies doesn't work.
Just look at your history.
Oh, it was thoughtful alright............
not much intelligence involved though. All the run around speeches he gives for those who refuse to see it, just are nothing more than he says one thing and completely intends to do another. It's not that hard to hear for those of us who aren't falling for that Obama love fest you have going.
Wow, what an intelligent answer, and thoughtful.
nm
Thanks, very kind and thoughtful of you to point that out....sm
I must have been thinking of the democrat they compared him to at the time, Gerry Studds.
Wow, thanks so much for that post, really thoughtful and true!!.....nm
nm
Thoughtful post. What bothers me is that religious
nm
Very nice, thoughtful, kind considerable post. sm
Also very small and closed minded. It's your way or no way.
I really wish you guys were nicer, but it doesn't seem to happen, does it?
Really, really good points, just shows how complicated it all is! provocative thoughtful post, than
nm
I just thought it might be nice to hear an original thought. sm
I guess I was reaching.
Thought this was good so I thought I'd share
Down the drain? Beware of Obama's plan to 'spread the wealth around'
By Betsy Newmark
High School History and Government Teacher/Blogger
If the McCain campaign can’t use this Obama quote to raise doubts about his attitude towards wealth and success, then they deserve the shellacking they seem headed for.
“Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn’t it?” the plumber asked, complaining that he was being taxed “more and more for fulfilling the American dream.”
“It’s not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they’ve got a chance for success too,” Obama responded. “My attitude is that if the economy’s good for folks from the bottom up, it’s gonna be good for everybody … I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.”
Plumbers of the country, unite! Forget about the work and effort you put into building up a business or the scummy work that you do that many of us don’t know or don’t want to do. If you have succeeded, you should be willing to give up more of what you earn to help those who haven’t had the great good luck that you have had to be a successful plumber. Remember how Obama is going to give 95% of all of us a tax cut even though over 30% of the population doesn’t pay taxes?
He might call it a tax credit, but what he’s really doing is his vision of “spreading the wealth around.” It sounds a lot like Huey Long’s 1935 plan to “Share the Wealth.” And when he finds that he can’t tax the top 5% of the population to gain enough wealth to spread to the 95% of the rest of us, do you really think that he’ll stop with that 5%?
Remember…This is the guy who said in the ABC debate during the primary season that his approach to raising tax on capital gains is not based on whether it would provide more revenue but on his idea of what is fair:
GIBSON: All right. You have, however, said you would favor an increase in the capital gains tax. As a matter of fact, you said on CNBC, and I quote, “I certainly would not go above what existed under Bill Clinton,” which was 28 percent. It’s now 15 percent. That’s almost a doubling, if you went to 28 percent.
But actually, Bill Clinton, in 1997, signed legislation that dropped the capital gains tax to 20 percent.
OBAMA: Right.
GIBSON: And George Bush has taken it down to 15 percent.
OBAMA: Right.
GIBSON: And in each instance, when the rate dropped, revenues from the tax increased; the government took in more money. And in the 1980s, when the tax was increased to 28 percent, the revenues went down.
So why raise it at all, especially given the fact that 100 million people in this country own stock and would be affected?
OBAMA: Well, Charlie, what I’ve said is that I would look at raising the capital gains tax for purposes of fairness.
Just what we need in these fragile economic times — a guy who wants to raise taxes because he thinks it’s a matter of “fairness” and time to “spread the wealth around.”
That will be some incentive for other plumbers who want to work hard and build up a successful business.
But don’t worry - according to Joe Biden, it’s the patriotic thing to do.
Haha! I thought I was the only one who thought he looked
I told you what I thought he thought....
and thank you so much for reducing it to "a piece."
That being said, here is link to article from Wall Street Journal about both candidates and outsourcing...Obama is not going to stop it either. He has said on the stump the answer is more highly educated American workers to compete.
It seems to me, and although you may think this is also a "piece," that if you put our corporate tax rates lower, if that corporation is inclined to hire Americans and not outsource then they will do so.
You honestly think the majority of corporations just WANT to outsource and taxes don't matter?
I thought I was alone.
So refreshing to have someone on this board that can actually think for themselves. I have such vivid memories of my dad dressing up in his class A's to go to war, and coming into my room crying at 4:00 a.m. in the morning to say goodbye, not knowing if we would ever see one another again. Thankfully, he did 1 tour in Korea before I was born, two tours in VN, and we lived on an Army base 25 miles from the Berlin wall when I was 6 years old. If there was ever an american girl, it is me and my brother. That "american girl" posting on here all the time, if she had to earn her FFFF freedom she would learn to keep her mouth shut.
Same thought here
It seems like one of first major priorities would be to ensure fair voting practices. I'm very worried about the accuracy of computerized voting and possible tampering.
I thought you were new here?sm
People are somewhat like-minded here, but I see distinct posting styles here. I am a conservative (ex-Republican), but I do not post on their board; their ideology does not reflect my beliefs. I have never once been bashed by liberals, even if they do not agree with me.
Just a thought....
Before too long the number of Iraq War troop deaths will be as high as the ones here on 9/11. And all for what? So sad.
You know what I thought when I saw it?
I thought it was posted by someone from the rabid right, so they could come back and respond to their very own post and blame the liberals because people post things like this. LoL!
I thought he was
putting his money where his mouth is. He has donated a large amount of his personal funds to this project, as well as fundraising efforts A lot of celebs just talk, Brad is actually doing something. Why does he have to live in the 9th ward to help.
I sponsor kids on the Salvation Army Angel Tree. Should I have to live with them to help them?
Gimme a break!
Never thought of it this way
You brought some good thoughts to mind. I definitely agree with you.
I know it's not very PC, but I'm sure the thought has
x
Another Thought
If Sara Palin came on the scene as an Independent and ran against McCain & Obama, think how that could've changed things!
As a conservative, I'm thrilled to see someone who knows how to play ball with the big boys. Funny how the feminists want all this equal rights stuff, then shoot this lady down before they really know anything about her.
I wonder how upset Hillary's supporters are over this. Time will tell, not just polls.
It should be interesting what history reveals in the end. Either way, this race will go down in the books as a first. That in itself is interesting.
Okay, that's what I thought lol
Two late nights in a row for me...thank GOD it's Friday! :)
I thought so............
x
Just a thought about this.
Since I only heard a snippet of this so far, the governor was trying to have others pay him to appoint them to take the O's senate seat?
If so (and don't bash, I'm asking a very serious question here), could this be how the O came up so quick? He paid for his senate seat?
The gov doesn't look like he thinks he did anything wrong. He's kinda young looking too. Could it be because Illinois has always had corruption like this? Gee, I think I'll go to Illinois and run for senator. LOL
Nobody thought that
Patriotism shouldn't be an issue, because there should be NO question whether a candidate for president is loyal to this country. The fact that there IS a question should scare people a lot more than it apparently does.
Do tell. I thought she did too. nm
.
I thought that was odd too
I was trying to figure out the strategy was with that. Maybe it was to convey that McCain thinks Obama is so inferior to him, he can't even bother looking at him? I don't know. They were supposed to be debating each other, and I wanted some more interaction.
I kept waiting for him to look Obama in the eye and say you are wrong. Even Bush looked in Putin's eyes and saw his soul or whatever.
I thought I was the only one who thought
as you do. I've been pulling $ out of my savings every month to pay the bills that my paychecks do not. I work longer and longer hours, for less and less money.
I, too, am 100% against this so-called 'bailout'. WHO, exactly, are they bailing out? I would actually LIKE to see the 'train-wreck'. I WANT to see Wall Street crash and all of the banks fail. I don't have any money in them anyway... it all gets spent on month-to-month survival.
I already know how to get by on next-to-nothing. So it would be just EVER-SO-ENTERTAINING if we could sit back and watch all this high-flyin' corporate con-men lose their shirts and have to learn to live on nothing, as well.
The best thing about allowing things to just take their own course, instead of falsely propping it all up with the crutch of a federal bailout, is that maybe, just MAYBE, if the whole system had to be re-built from the ground up, maybe they might do a better job this time around.
So, fire those locomotives up, and point those suckers right at each other! Train-wreck! YEAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!
okay , that's what I thought, so why --
why does everybody say that Obama wants socialized medicine then? That is not what I read. My take on Obama's plan is that he wants insurance available for everyone but that most people will still be insured through their employers, but the government will have insurance plans for those who do not get it through their employer. That is not socialized medicine to me, that is just providing insurance coverage for people who need it.
Just another thought
You say you want someone with experience. Then the obvious choice is John McCain if you want business as usual, dishonesty, immorality, everything that is wrong with our government. Give me a candidate who is moral, honest and has integrity and that's the candidate I want. THAT could and would change the government that has almost already destroyed America as we know it. Sara Palin's inexperience is absolutely NOT what I have against her. If she had the other qualities, which I don't believe she does, I would vote for her although I think she might consider gettingt busy studying as even I knew the name of the General in Afghanastan. More "experience" in Washington D.C. is exactly what we DO NOT need.
Another thought s/m
While I'm on a housecleaning campaign, the only woman I find more distasteful than Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton is Nancy Pelosi. She had her friends need to GO.
STILL VOTING A WRITE-IN VOTE FOR LOU DOBBS!!!! and T. Boone Pickens.
I thought about it some more and
here's what I think: IF Obama is elected, then look out for the White Supremists, a dispicable group, IMHO, right up there with the KKK. Now........how racist am I? I hate these racist issues no matter what color they come from. We are ALL God's children, yellow, red, black and white, we are precious in his sight. So why can't the Black Power AND the White Supremsts let it go already????? Why can't we be just AMERICANS, not African-Americans, not Vietnamese-Americans, not Irish-Americans, not Chinese-Americans.......just AMERICANS????????????? Can you answer me that? Oh, I know, it's politically correct to say AFRICAN-Americans. Nonsense.
VOTING A WRITE-IN VOTE FOR LOU DOBBS!!!
Just when I thought there could not
possibly be anyone more cartoonish than W. -- and there she is!
Just a thought
I am suspect of everything I hear and most everything I see when it comes to politics. I saw some of these people speaking with the media. If they were bribed, whiy do you suppose they got in front of the TV cameras. Our politicians (notice pleural) are so corrupt I wouldn't put anything past them to try to swing the vote and people like blind sheep just follow along.
just a thought...
what's sad and pathetic is that the press everywhere, not just America, reports what stirs people up. the fact that most Americans are working and struggling to make ends meet and put food on the table, and try their best to do what is right and make choices based on what is best for our country, is not considered newsworthy. So what everyone sees is the few loonies who are not at all representative of the majority of Americans, but isn't it fun watching them on the news! It will be a huge relief when this election is behind us, whatever the outcome.
i never thought of it that way
"They sure go to a lot of trouble to fight against something they don't believe in."
gourdpainter - i definitely will remember this; it applies to many areas of life where one should stop the conflict and just 'be'. is it the painting of gourds that lends itself to such peace and sagacity? if so, i will begin painting them today! your wise observations never fail to enllighten and many times amuse. when i see your tag, i know the post will be worth reading!
I thought it was ee-jot........nm
x
no it's not but thought
share their experiences... i did not demand... just asked if anyone is willing to share...
i thought
that meant "see message"... please correct me if i'm wrong.
I thought that for a while but....sm
I still think a lot of bad things about Obama and his aquaintances, however I don't think he is the antichrist. He may be a predecessor or an accomplice? But the thing is this - the US isn't the center of the Universe - the antichrist doesn't have to happen to be OUR president. When the end happens it will be nationwide, not just in the US. Many countries have been suffering unbearably for decades and even centuries. Look at the starving children in Africa and all the suffering all over the world. Certainly I desperately do not want us to suffer as well, but we are not the center of the Universe and just because we may end up suffering doesn't mean that is Armageddon. If so, then I guess these other poor countries have been in Armageddon for a long time. I am sure it is all related to the UN though, and someone is bound to emerge in the not so distant future who is the antichrist, but I don't really think Obama is him.
Just a thought -
I just realized something. If we all keep staying on this board so much, none of us will have to worry about sharing wealth with other people because we will need it to trickle down to us!
Okay...I don't believe I said I thought
that ad was sexist. I said a woman being interviewed on TV who was a democrat and Hillary supporter felt that it was. As a McCain supporter....all I said was I hope more of them found it sexists regardless of what I thought because it would help McCain. LOL!
Just a thought..........
 I think we are all bushed; now, after all this bickering, I, as a democrat, feel like a 'sore winner. ' Yesterday a poster used this term and is accurate.
I suggest that we all take a couple of days a break from the politics board to cool down. I will do this. So long!
Okay, here's a thought for you
Obama wants to eliminate coal. Doesn't even think about clean coal. Why?
My husband would like to know: We have 250 years of coal for heating and power plants. Why abandon the coal industry?
How many people are killed in interstate truck traffic/automobile accidents because people are driving on the interstate at unsafe speeds?
How many people are killed in coal mines every year?
How many people are killed in other industries like steel, airlines, etc.?
How many people are killed in vacation accidents, be it a boat, surfing, fishing, swimming, etc.?
The bottom line is, less people are killed every day in activities they choose to do. Coal has less deaths than any of the above. Yet, coal accidents hit the front pages all the time. A coal mine accident where 1 person dies is too much, yet it's better than the above.
Obama wants to take away the most important resource we have in this country. Coal mining is one of the safest industries we have. If a few people die in mines, what makes it any better than other industries that AREN'T pasted all over the front pages?
He doesn't agreeagree with doing away with coal. Why not hydroelectric? What's wrong with that?
Can anyone explain why coal should not be used at until we find an AFFORDABLE alternate energy for everyone? Solar is not affordable for most people. We have been trying to figure out an alternate source of energy for our own home for the past 3 years. Since we are in the NE, solar would not work for us. Coal Does.
Anyone want to comment?
That very same thought not only...
...crossed my mind, but right now, it's the only thing I have remaining to COUNT ON! 
TY for looking that up. I thought I had
heard considerably more than that about 5 years ago, but maybe some changes and personnel have been made since then. I know I heard the Salvation Army gives 85% or 86% back into helping people and so I have stuck with them, what little I can give. Definitely not a gold Krugerrand!
Thank you - I thought I was alone
All I'm saying is I want to wait for the supreme court to decide. Is that too much to ask? All I want to know is that an INDEPENDENT party. One that is not affiliated or supported by either party to view this document.
You can look at the one that was on his website and can tell that it drips with forgery. Look closely enough and you can even see his sisters name underneath his. However, I do understand that his site took it down and fixed it up some more, but evidently someone who is filing the lawsuit has an original copy of that, so at least not all the evidence was removed.
Take that, along with his grandmother, sisters & brother from Kenya who said they were there), the Kenyan president saying he was born in Kenya. His Indonesian citizenship while he went to school there, and then coming back to America and never filing papers to be an American ciitizen. Just way way too much info doesn't sit right. (P.S. - why in the world would the hospital in Kenya where Obama was born erect a statue of Obama at the Hospital????? The pieces just don't fit right. I want the truth and I want it put out by an independent source. Is that too much to ask. Isn't that what they would want if McCain had gotten in and say there was question of if he was born in another country like Finland or Norway or any other country. And then McCain created a fake bc and put it on his website and got an organization like Swiftboat or Fox news or any other extreme conservative group to say they view it and its legit. You know they'd be screaming to uphold the constitution, so why don't they want the constiution upheld in this case? I just don't understand. In reality, I think Obama has too much power and the issue will never be resolved, but I am hoping to see the truth come out. I'll accept whatever the supreme court decides.
That's what I thought...LOL (sm)
In other words, that was just a *spout out* with no real meaning. ROFL.
I thought so. That's why...
...your posts have been so pleasant to read. Please keep posting.
Hope you have a great weekend, as well. 
I wish others thought the way you do
Most people who voted for O did it for instantaneous change. Most of them think this will happen overnight, as soon as he becomes president, and most will be very disappointed.
They voted for a man who was always upbeat and full of promises. Now that he's been elected, his speeches have changed, and I only hope those who voted for him won't be impatient for the changes he promised or this country will be in worse shape than before.
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