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webmd.com has healthcare plans of both candidates

Posted By: sm on 2008-11-02
In Reply to:

in a very informative fashion, front and center.  take a look. i am also very concerned about o's idea for changing medical records technology....


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His plans are just that....plans.
Besides, I don't think he can actually even try to do any of his plans with the way things are now.  The economy just won't allow it.  We can't afford any government programs or universal health care.  The USA has no money.  Even if he just taxed the rich more, which I doubt it will just limited to the rich, that still wouldn't be enough money to pay for these government programs.  It won't happen....it can't and if it does, we will all pay for it because all taxes will go up.
Cheaper plans -- $107 to $220
There are cheaper plans for the child, just checked and they range from 107 with 1000 deductible up to 220 for HMO.  I had to go without health insurance for a long while after getting divorced and getting my life back together, did not ask the government to come in and save me and at an older age, have a lot more chance of medical problems than young kids.  When I was a kid there was no health insurance, hardly went to the doctor.  I just feel that middle income people (over 80,000) can afford to support their kids with insurance.  Do not carry it on yourself and cover your kids if you feel so adamant about it.  And as for the cigarette tax covering it, once they find out the administation cost of it, then they will have to tax the rest of us to fund it.  Also every government plan starts out great and then they cut the benefits to the doctors as they don't have the money and pretty soon there are no doctors that will accept those patients.  Seen it time and time again.   But like someone else said, give a credit to the family once they pay the premiums for their kids.   Government taking care of us is not the answer, at least to me it isn't.
Plans for CHANGE! LOL
x
What are Obama's plans now?

I never believed that BO's plans would work to benefit our country, but now he can't even start his plans if he is elected.  This economy is too out of wack and the government has NO money.  So how does Barry expect to keep his promises he has made during his campaign?  We can't afford more government programs.  It just is not possible.  So much for that hope he keeps talking about.


I admit that the promise of change is an attractive idea, but I have yet to hear any "plan" of Barry's that will actually bring change worth voting for.  Voting for him initially would have raised government spending and taxes.  Now that the country is in deep financial crisis....what does he propose now?  I haven't heard much of significance out of him to suggest he really will bring about change....or I should say change for the better.


CHANGE WE CAN FEAR.....Barrack Hussein Obama


help with 2 Obama plans
I have found 2 things I need help understanding that were proposed by Senator Obama and am wondering if someone can shed light on what these proposals are. One is "universal national public service" (also spoken about by Michelle Obama in a recent speech) and the other is "civilian national security force." From what I have read, they sound scary, but I am not sure I understand either. Anybody know anything about these?
me too - who else plans to quit
Why work. There are no incentives. Why should I work when my money will be taken and given to people like Peggy Joseph who stated she won't have to work to buy gas and she won't have to work to pay her mortgage.


I did not say I did not agree with his plans -
I said we are not all looking for handouts... Of course, some people believe that is what he is going to do - I for one do not believe he is going to give "handouts".

I also don't consider tax cuts handouts, I don't consider helping people go to school handouts.

And, I very much LOVE the idea of not rewarding companies for sending our jobs overseas and for giving tax incentives to the companies who keep our jobs in the states.

I love the fact that I will not have to itemize my taxes to get to count my mortgage interest off on my taxes - why should some people be able to claim that credit and others not be able to?

I love the fact that he stands for a woman's right to choose what to do with her own body...

I love the fact that he is going to work toward getting affordable insurance for all people and not have to depend on an employer to provide you some type of coverage...

I never said I did not agree with his plan - just that I interpret his plans different than you.


Congress looks at Big 3 plans...... sm

Congress has looked at the Big 3's plans to cut costs in order to "qualify" for a bailout, the amount of which has now grown to $34B.  Nancy Pelosi seems to be in favor, so my bet is they will get it. 

Some of the concessions the auto makers are ready to make is slashing the executive pay, getting rid of executive bonuses, postponing employee merit raises for next year, suspending health care payments into a union health care plan, and possibly getting rid of the controversial job banks. 

Ford said they only wanted a standby line of credit with the government in case the other two go belly up.  GM seems to be the one hurting the most. 

I really have to wonder, will a bailout REALLY help or will it just postpone the inevitable with the rest of the economy dying the way it is???? 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97737508&ft=1&f=1001


Went on with thier plans...
with the blessing of folks like Nancy Pelosi. This is hardly a Pres. Bush problem or a republican problem. Obama digs much further and I think we'll find there are more people in Congress that knew about it and either agreed with it or did nothing about it, on both sides of the isle. Is he going to prosecute everyone?

That would be a sight!
Other plans out there make more sense

I've been researching other candidates and their plans.


On the Dem side - Kucinich has a plan for only one insurance provider to everyone.  Sends all the bloodsucking insurance companies and their "preexisting conditions" and "not medically necessary" straight out of business.  I kinda like that plan, as I used to do billing and it would sure cut through a ton of red tape for doctors, hospitals, their staff and the patients.


On the Rep side - Huckabee has a plan that does away with employers providing insurance.  That's kind of scary, as "pooling" to get better insurance rates has always been the cheaper way to go.


But any plan I've seen doesn't worry me as much as Hillary's!


Anybody else who has heard of a candidate with a good plan, please chime in!


i'm curious about both sides as far as plans
x
I disagree. I think Obama's plans

will be the one to further hurt our country.  However, if I am wrong (and if O wins I hope I am wrong), I will give Obama credit if and when it is due.  Until then, I stand by what I believe.  Raising taxes during a financial crisis like this will ruin us.  Taxing businesses more will only make our products and services cost more which WE will pay for.  And as much money as Obama is wanting the government to spend on his programs, he will have to tax more than the rich to cover his expenses.


Cut taxes and cut government spending!!!!  Not the other way around.


I understood Obama's plans
thus my message below. I was simply responding the the wish for socialized medicine that equals that of the wonderful place we call Iraq!
Yeah, plans are already underway to...
"let his followers down easy" so they don't go from "euphoria to despair." Read the article in the lowering expectations post below. The Obama camp knows full well that when the faithful find out the sugar train is not coming into the station like promised....NO ice cream for YOU...they don't want them all "in despair" because the great and powerful "O" can't deliver (Uh oh Toto!!).

Good grief...it is AMAZING. lol.
No. Because Obama's disastrous plans have not
nm
candidates
I think they will both be true in the future to who they are now (as well as they can be with having to work with Congress to get things done), but "what you see" depends on where you're looking and who's doing the talking.
Candidates

Why not let felons vote?  No different than providing amnesty to millions of illegals to get their vote, which is going to happen whether we like it or not.


Obama certainly talks the talk. I have a couple of problems with him.  One his pastor.  He might also consider running as an AMERICAN, not an African-American.  It matters not that he happens to be a black AMERICAN. Let's be done with racism on BOTH sides.  Sometimes I think the only way we, who happen to be Caucasian,  can ever satisfy the African-American community is to become slaves for a few hundred years.  Let it go already.  There is not one person alive today who ever was a slave or ever owned a slave.  Let's move on.


McCain.........while I honor his service to this country, if I hear about his POW years one more time I think I'll vomit.  I saw him on a talk show where he was asked about how many houses he owns and he immediately launched into his "years as a POW where he didn't even have a table much less a house". 


God save this country, neither candidate is going to help Him.


Yes...too bad the candidates don't
talk to real Americans, not the CEOs, the Hollywood elite (why anyone take any political advice from a so-called movie star is beyond me) when cameras aren't around. Most candidates perceive us as being sheeple, say some pretty things and we will follow, no matter how high the cliff is you're brining us over. I don't care how many houses you own, what faith your father was, if you had an affair or if you wear a flag pin. Get to some frickin' issues when you debate each other, don't give us the run around and jab each other. Neither one of you are stellar candidates. You both have faults, you both have good points, but for cripe's sake, talk about something that matters to us!
candidates

instead of obama or mccain, any other candidates you may vote for?


http://www.votesmart.org/election_president.php


 


So sam, what are the sleeping lion's plans for change?

Address poverty?  Restore the every diminishing quality of life for the middle class?  Mortgage industry?  Predatory lending/credit card practices?  Balanced budget?  Reduced debt?  Tax reform?  Create jobs?  Outsourcing?  Minimum wage?  Protect Social Security?  Workers' unions?  Small busineses?  Corporate corruption?  Free trade?  Clean up the environment?  Alternative energies?  Fuel efficiency?  Clean elections?  Special interests?  Federal contract earmarks?  Patriot Act?  Ending the War?  Restoring alliances?  Global diplomacy?  Separation of church and state?  Just curious. 


And so are is researching the candidate's plans for the country

how can you ever vote for the RIGHT candidate?


He plans to give the middle class (that would be US)
Don't know about you, but I just can't pay any more taxes without going under financially. (Unless someone invents a vaccine that makes it possible to survive without having to EAT.)
Big corporations (I'm not talking about SMALL businesses, here... I said 'BIG'), aren't paying their fair share & pulling their weight tax-wise. Compounding that is the fact that they currently are actually getting incentives for sending work offshore. Why else do you think the LARGEST MT companies are the ones that offshore? In addition to paying p1ss-ant wages to us peons, they're getting financial incentives to do so.
There are also too many loopholes in labor laws that the big co's have going for them. How else would it be possible to tell a U.S. MT that they cannot work overtime, yet that MT has to work 2-6 hrs. over OT per DAY, just to make the 'minimum' line count and keep her health insurance. All withOUT getting paid for said overtime.
With McCain in office, there is little hope that any of that will improve. The fact that Obama is from a younger generation, with newer ideas, at least gives me a glimmer of HOPE, and right now hope means a lot to me, and alot of other people in the US. Will he get some things wrong? Undoubtedly. No one has ever had a 'perfect Presidency'. But will he get some things RIGHT? Absolutely. He will base a lot of his military decisions on TODAY's world situation, not the one that existed in 1942, or 1969.
I don't agree with EVERYthing Obama says (but then again, I never agree with everything ANYone says.) But I think that for this particular time in our country's and the world's history, we stand a better chance of improving the way things are with some new blood in the White House, NOT the same-ol', same-ol'.


The Candidate's Health Insurance Plans
MCCAIN:

• McCain's health care plan will increase taxes on employer-based insurance, and kick 20 million people off the rolls.

• McCain's plan will throw you into the individual market, where the same plan your employer offered will cost $2,000 more, and you can be refused care because you were sick 10 years ago.

• McCain's plan will shift costs onto the sick.

OBAMA:

• Obama's plan will cover tens of millions of Americans and reform the insurance industry such that everyone gets a fair deal and no one can be discriminated against because they were once sick or unlucky.

• It will create a group market that businesses can buy their employees into so that a small business that paints homes doesn't have to run a tiny insurance company on the side and an entrepreneur can pursue his idea without having to learn about health coverage regulations.

• It will cover all children. And Christ almighty, isn't it time we did at least that?
Compare your taxes under McC and Obama plans
I just did mine and I pay less taxes under Obama.

http://www.electiontaxes.com/
His plans are anti-American -socialism.
nm
His plans are to create bigger government, which
nm
Yep, and Obama's plans constitute socialism
nm
Seems like everybody is blowing the whistle on the govt. plans
January 16, 2008






Live Free Or Die: Capitalism At Risk
By Axel Merk

The Federal Reserve (Fed) has gone beyond playing with fire, and may have indeed set the house on fire. It’s one thing to push interest rates to near zero to stimulate the economy; it’s another to “monetize the debt” by printing money to buy government debt. In recent weeks, the Fed has broken outside even those boundaries and become actively engaged in managing the private sector beyond the core banking system. Worse still, the steps taken may be difficult to reverse and as such may shape the U.S. economy for a long time. These steps are taken with the best of intentions, to “save” the economy. The only trouble is that we may be on a slippery slope to destroying capitalism on the way. In “doing whatever it takes” to get the economy back on its feet, the Fed risks destroying the foundation of why the U.S. has been able to establish itself as the world’s leading economic force. Actively participating in credit allocation within the private sector, the Federal Reserve (Fed) jeopardizes the capitalist foundation the U.S. economy is built on. As a result of these actions, the U.S. may be on its way to becoming a modern incarnation of a planned economy.


Why these harsh words? To understand what is so frightening with recent Fed activity, consider that most central banks focus on interest rates, inflation and money supply to promote price stability (and maximum employment in the Fed’s case). Generally, they all influence credit creation by managing the cost of borrowing. Central banks may employ slightly different levers and targets; and while some central banks are better than others at achieving their goals, what they have in common is that they traditionally focus on government debt, mostly short-term Treasuries, to achieve their goals. This is very much by design as good central bank policy leads to an environment of price stability fostering long-term economic prosperity. On the other hand, bad central bank policy may lead to inflation, wide swings in economic activity or unnecessarily high unemployment. However, free market forces will push the private sector to make the best of it. It’s when policy makers start subsidizing ailing sectors of the economy that distortions are created that will come back to haunt us. Traditionally, for better or worse, elected officials decide on the socio-economic fabric of society. Now, the Fed decides which areas of the economy need to be propped up.


Creating Hysteria To Pursue Policies


The hysteria that has been created by policy makers and the media has allowed the Fed to pursue its recent unorthodox policies. In late September, the world financial system looked rather dire; the government was able to play a role to avoid a disorderly collapse; but the government’s role should have been limited to allowing an orderly adjustment of the excesses of the credit bubble. Instead, the latest salvo to promote the bailouts is that payrolls have dropped by the largest amount since World War II. This may be the case in absolute numbers as the population has grown, but more jobs were lost as a percentage of the workforce in a twelve month period in each of 1982, 1961, 1958, 1954, 1948/49; in many of the cases more than twice as many. Recessions are no fun, neither are personal or corporate bankruptcies; but they may be the cure needed to weed out the excesses of the boom. In contrast, today, hedge fund managers that ran their funds into the ground are raising hundreds of millions of dollars to start anew. Some of the folks that ran Long Term Capital Management into the ground in 1998 started fresh only to have another massive failure in the current credit crisis. We don’t expect the new breed of second chances to be any better. And while the blame lies with the managers, excessively low interest rates contribute to irrational risk taking: all of the bailouts focus on those who have been over-leveraged. What about the group of responsible savers that rely on income? With interest rates near zero, many are tempted to engage in highly leveraged strategies to meet their required income objectives. Pension funds “must” return 6% per year, leaving them little leeway but to give money to hedge fund managers to magically turn 1% yields into 20% returns; the way to achieve this is with leverage. Actually, there is another way: the Swiss public pension fund system just announced that it will scale down its long-term return objective to 4% from its current 6% per annum.


Giving Credit Where No Credit is Due


In late December, the Fed Board of Governors approved GMAC’s application to become a bank. The vote was 4-1, and the one board member with experience as a bank regulator, Elizabeth Duke, dissented. There was another hurdle: GMAC, General Motors’ finance arm, did not have sufficient capital to be a bank. That problem was solved, too, in early January, as the Treasury injected $5 billion into GMAC; the Treasury also GM $1 billion, so that GM could inject that money into GMAC. Equipped now with a minimum capital base, GMAC is able to operate as a bank, go to the Fed to access the TARP program, as well as other regular and emergency Fed windows.


In December, car sales fell off the cliff. But it wasn’t only GM that had problems; even Toyota that had access to credit and introduced zero percent financing, recorded a 37% plunge in sales (unlike other car makers, Toyota has traditionally not offered zero percent financing). Shell-shocked consumers are worried about their jobs and have lost a substantial amount of their net worth in 2008; further, incentive programs prior to the bursting of the credit bubble lured consumers into 6-year loans with zero percent financing. Consumers simply don’t want or need a car right now. Policy makers take this as a reason to provide money to GMAC that pursues a business model proven to be ruinous: it simply doesn’t make sense to offer cars at 0% if interest rates are above that, even if they are “close to zero” as they are now. GMAC takes money from the Treasury to be able to request more from the Fed. And the first course of business for GMAC is to extend zero percent financing to consumers with lower credit ratings than had traditionally qualified.


Difficult to Unwind: Long Term Inflation Likely


The Fed is only ramping up its mission to allocate credit where the Fed – rather than the free market - deems it appropriate. A major program announced in the fourth quarter, but rolled out in early January consists of a $500 billion program to buy mortgage-backed securities (MBS). The perceived positive is the plummeting of mortgage rates. Consumers with superb credit now qualify for 30-year mortgages at less than 5%. One problem with such programs is that the Fed intentionally inflates prices (lowers the yields) on these securities; in turn, rational market participants may abstain from buying them. As a result the Fed risks replacing private sector activity, rather than encouraging it. Furthermore, the Fed jeopardizes the dollar as foreigners may be discouraged from buying U.S. government and agency security debt; given that the U.S. has become dependent on foreigners to finance its spending needs as well as the unprecedented debt that will be financed in 2009. This is a very dangerous road to be on.


The Fed may be able to phase out its commercial paper subsidy program or drain liquidity from the TARP program over time; however, the $500 billion MBS program may be difficult, if not impossible to unwind. Indeed, the design of the MBS program calls for holding of the securities until maturity. For practical purposes, this means that the Fed’s balance sheet is not just “temporarily” inflated, but that the Fed will permanently keep more money in the economy. Traditionally, the Fed’s balance sheet is $900 billion. Therefore, even if one gives the Fed the benefit of the doubt that the current escalation to over $2 trillion is temporary, there will be a significant hangover as not all additions can easily be removed. This doesn’t even consider that, quite likely, the MBS purchase program may need to be extended beyond the 6-month period it was put in place for. Watch for bond manager Bill Gross this June, calling for the Fed to continue buying MBS, preferably the ones he has on the books, to save the economy from collapse. Incidentally, his firm, PIMCO, is one of the firms managing the Fed program.


To counter the effects of this added money in the economy, the Fed would need to keep interest rates permanently higher. One realistic alternative, however, is that the additional money will stay in the economy as draining it would cause too much economic hardship. This may well embed inflation into the U.S. economy for years to come. Importantly, note that there is little, if any, accountability at the Fed monitoring its actions; no one is there to ensure that the Fed will, at some point, phase out its programs or added powers.


Live Free Or Die


By engaging in credit allocation to specific sectors of the economy, the U.S. is stepping into a territory traditionally left to governments with a socialist or communist brand. Communism has shown us that planned economies don’t work. New Hampshire in 1945 added the slogan “Live Free or Die” to its state emblem, a quote stemming from a general in the Revolutionary war. Translated to the economic crisis, this should mean that a severe recession ought to be the lesser evil than a planned economy. And to continue the parallel, when communism swept Eastern Europe, the standard of living for everyone dropped. In today’s world, we already see that the “re-failure” rate of those who defaulted, then renegotiated their teaser rate loans, is above 50%. Yet all taxpayers have to pay the price for the bailouts.


To be sure, we are a far cry from communism. But we must keep our eyes open and not be blinded by the perceived “help” of money printed by the Fed. Debt is the origin, not the solution to the problems we face. The Declaration of Independence’s “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” may be difficult to achieve when drowned in debt; building sustainable wealth without the shackles of debt may be the more appropriate path. It’s not by mistake that the Founding Fathers be backed by a precious metal that cannot be inflated to give in to the temptation of the day.


I hope each one of these candidates
wins!  They've been there, done that, and in my opinion, should have the strongest voices.  I just hope it isn't too late for this country by next election day!
then again, they ALL scare me - all the candidates
       
Presidential candidates

I think MTs should run the country!!!


Candidates cars
This was fun to read

http://www.newsweek.com/id/160091
Do either of the candidates have a plan
for this financial crisis that does not involve the taxpayers bailing out the US? 
Independent candidates have to
have at least 15% in opinion polls in order to participate in the presidential debates.  Right now....the only candidates eligible to participate in the debate are, of course, McCain and Obama.  To me....that says that no independent has enough backing to do any good except for take votes from the other two.  There is nothing wrong with voting for an independent though.  If you feel Ron Paul is a better candidate, you have the right to vote for him.  However, some say it would be throwing your vote away since the likelihood of him actually win is slim.  You never know though.  Do what you feel is best and go with your gut.  If you truly believe in Ron Paul, vote for him.  No one can knock you for that.
If one of the candidates was not Obama I would be...
tempted. However, in my view, it is way too important for the future of this country to doa protest vote. same reason I am voting a straight republican ticket. The thought of Obama as president and a majority in congress...makes it way too important for a protest vote this cycle...at least for me.
Here are some other parties and their candidates.

The Libertarian Party has nominated former Congressman Bob Barr, the Constitution Party has nominated pastor and radio talk show host Chuck Baldwin, and the Green Party has nominated former Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney. Ralph Nader declined to seek the Green Party nomination and is running as an independent candidate.  That is in addition to the Ron Paul fans as well as McCain and Obama.


What did we get out of the debate last night?  That same ole crap Obama and McCain have been throwing around since the get go.  Imagine what that would be like with all these other people thrown in the debate as well. 


They only cover 2 candidates because
we don't demand that they do otherwise.  Power to the people!!!!
I wish there was a rule that the candidates HAVE TO
avoid them and go off in a direction of their own choosing. Especially when it's something they already said before. This second debate had me yawning.
here are a few if my candidates lose -
1. Get up Wed. AM, after election, turn on TV. See my faves didn't win. My reaction: 'Oh, cr@p!'

2. my actions: Eat cereal and drink coffee.

3. Where to go from thERE?
BACK TO BED!

4. What will I flee? My low-paying MT job, which most likely will never get any better.
Now I know how the candidates feel!
Say one thing and everyone wants to dissect your every move! LOL

sbMT for President! who wants to be my running mate???

HAHA J/K
It's called "trickle down taxes"....all of Obama's plans....sm
in the end, will RAISE the price and cost of all those businesses who offer services and practices to all of US.....his raising THEIR taxes will RAISE what we spend out of our pockets....not to mention every other TAX which may not be INCOME TAX, will skyrocket, under Obama.


Geez....do all your reserach and do the math
Voters who actually read party platforms and plans
the distinctions between $250,000, $200,000 and $150,000. The figures apply to a variety of tax structures which have been clearly laid out for those interested in something other than basing their vote on dead-end issue-dodging, obsfucation, misinformation, character slurs and the like. You can read up or not. The information is there for the taking.
Eugenics and master plans.are equal opportunity
Its all about the source and what their driving agendas may be. Readers who believe in and promote master plan theories based on racial purity would be WAY gullible to be convinced of other conspiracy theories, no matter how idiotic the are. Those of us grounded in reality, not so much.

Scouring the net on the topics you named (especially govt takeovers) speaks for itself. If you cite sources from the whack world, don't expect to be taken too seriously.
Anyone interested in the candidates houses? SM

On the www.apartmentherapy website, they feature the candidates homes.  I love that site.  Anway...spoiler alert, if anyone cares.


________________________________ 


 


What I found interesting is Mitt Romney lives in a comptemporary home on the water, which is pictured next to Barack Obama's conservative georgian style home.  


OK, not of vital interest, I just love looking at homes.


Scary that you would support either of those candidates.
p
and now they've found out all 3 candidates'
Reminds me a lot of LA hospital employees getting fired for snooping in Britney Spears' medical records. I don't know what exactly there is to snoop in passport records, but it's still a privacy breach.
Differences in Wives of the candidates...

So I have only seen Michelle and Cindy speak few times.


However I have noticed something that sticks out to me tremendously, and this was the attitude of the two.


Last night Cindy was calm, sweet, and caring.


Michele seems hard, negative, and loud.


Obviously I am a Republican, but I pride myself on trying to be objective.  Do we see these things differently or is this agreed upon?  Cindy definitely seems like a weak little doe, and Michele a tough ox. 


I'm not saying either is worse, just something I observed.


Polls promising for both candidates
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26627956#26627956
I have a great idea! I think the candidates should be...sm
hooked up to lie detectors during the debates.  Wouldn't that be interesting?
Of course she does.....all the candidates use planes for some things...
my point was, that they SOMETIMES use buses instead of flying everywhere, Obama does not use buses, and I would venture a guess that one flight uses more energy than her tanning bed does in a year.
Go Lou Dobbs - he's really ripping both candidates

A new one.  Boy oh boy was he going off.  He is so disgusted with the whole crisis going on and that the mainstream americans are going to end up paying for it.  First he went off on John McCain and boy did he go off.  Then he went off on Obama and boy did he let him have it too.  He never once said one has a better solution that the other or one was more to blame than the other.  He ended it by saying something to the effect (I forget exact words) but something about these two candidates are running to be president and they both won't answer questions with a straight answer.  And if they can't even answer then they both shouldn't be running (or don't want it bad enough).  Like I say I forget the exact words but I do have to say I'm going to start listening to Lou Dobbs from now on because he's not taking sides.


If you get to see his show on CNN tonight you should catch it.  Very good points he brings up (and you could see the spokespersons for both sides cringing at what he was saying).  He didn't let them get away with anything.