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you sound like a very angry person nm

Posted By: Xanax on 2008-09-24
In Reply to: Yeah, and yesterday Harry Reid said if McCain... - sam

nm


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why are you such an angry person (and mean)?
xx
You sound a lot like that dot/dash(.-) person
who was posting a while back.... anyone else notice the similarity?
yes, the first person did....the person replying to that post...
was talking about the founding fathers...who came along a long time after the witch trials. You replied to the second post, not the first one. I was replying to you based on that. Purtianism came first...Christianity was the religion practiced by the founding fathers. It is evident in their writings and in most of our original documents.

I think we can stop whipping this dead horse now.
Whoops....A person....not I person.
.
angry?
Anger, me?  Not at all.  Firm in my beliefs, you bet.  Thinking the necon dinosaurs are fools, you bet.  Attacking neocons, not unless they attack me.  I give as good as I get. 
she does seem angry.....
x
What are you so angry about
WHAT is their fault?  What exactly has happened so far?  Or are you just talking about what COULD happen or MIGHT happen because we are trying to fix the economy?  Obama is doing what he said and YES it is our patriotic duty to get this country back on track.  You want to yell and scream because that is your right to have a voice.  You want to vote because it is your right to choose who is in charge.  BUT, you don't want to help when the going gets tough?  What?  It's no longer your business or responsiblity?  HA!   It's kinda like marriage, in sickness and in health.  We are ill right now.....stick it out and ride out the storm. 
What I am angry about
Being labeled horrible names because I am not a democrat. I'm neither a republican either. You say "we" are trying to fix the economy. Are you in congress doing anything about it. No, I'm sorry but you talk as though you are right their with the congress trying to "fix" things. I'm mad that people are blaming every single thing on republicans, when we've had a democratic congress the past two years. I'm angry that nobody is saying squat about B. Franks, H. Reid, N. Pelosi and others who have gotten us into this mess (along with B. Clinton forcing banks to give loans to people who couldn't afford it). Democrats and republicans have both been at fault for what has happened. But I'm sick and tired (and please no wise-@ss remarks) of people blaming every single thing on only republicans and that the democrats are absolutely perfect and have never done anything wrong. And you blatently misstated what I said. I said I'm tired of being told "it's my patriotic duty to pay more taxes". I didn't say anything about getting the country back on track. It would be nice if your trying to make a point to at least repeat what I said. I never said I don't want to help. What I said was I don't want to have to put my bills and food and other items I need on credit so that way the gvt can take more money from me and give it to the illegals who are perfectly able to earn money themselves but they prefer not to because the democrats have offered them a free ride.

I'm barely surviving here. I'm sinking fast. I don't do squat here except work. I'm sticking it out. But don't sit there and blame every single republican while you excuse every single democrat for the poor behavior and decisions they make.


This make me so angry!

As Karl Rove himself said, Wilson's wife was "fair game."


I've said before that it's not only Valerie Plame who he endangered, but everyone who has worked with her during her work with WMDs.  We're in the middle of a WAR, but this "good ol' boy" administration doesn't care what they do or don't do in that respect.  They don't care whose lives they endanger.  They don't THANK these people for their service and for putting their lives in danger to try to make this country a better place. No, instead they see a man who has dared to disagree with King George, and they target his wife for potential danger, to get even with her husband for disagreeing with Almighty George Dumbya Bush.  They act like a redneck version of the Mafia. The CIA deserve more respect than this administration gives it, but this administration doesn't think much of respect.  Bush blatantly doesn't care who in the world respects us, and he offers no respect to anyone else in this world.  He is perfect, and he makes no mistakes, and if you don't believe me, just ask him or one of his aids or one of his flunkies on this board.  They'll all tell you how perfect he is.


I've seen Larry Johnson on different programs, and the views he expressed in this letter absolutely reflect what he said on TV.  How in the world could any CIA source trust the CIA to protect his or her identity when the president of this country makes it clear that everything is "fair" in this good ol' boy Mafia-type game played in Washington.


Rove definitely should have his security clearance yanked.  He clearly doesn't deserve it.  Neither does Bush.


Angry old bitty
and....I have always know you are an angry ancient old fart who needs to step back and leave the progressive positive moving forward community alone..Take your ancient backward ideas and stuff em where the sun does not shine..
Why are Americans so angry?

Why Are Americans So Angry?


by Ron Paul
by Ron Paul






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Before the U.S. House of Representatives, June 29, 2006


I have been involved in politics for over 30 years and have never seen the American people so angry. It’s not unusual to sense a modest amount of outrage, but it seems the anger today is unusually intense and quite possibly worse than ever. It’s not easily explained, but I have some thoughts on this matter. Generally, anger and frustration among people are related to economic conditions; bread and butter issues. Yet today, according to government statistics, things are going well. We have low unemployment, low inflation, more homeowners than ever before, and abundant leisure with abundant luxuries. Even the poor have cell phones, televisions, and computers. Public school is free, and anyone can get free medical care at any emergency room in the country. Almost all taxes are paid by the top 50% of income earners. The lower 50% pay essentially no income taxes, yet general dissatisfaction and anger are commonplace. The old slogan “It’s the economy, stupid,” just doesn’t seem to explain things.


Some say it’s the war, yet we’ve lived with war throughout the 20th century. The bigger they were the more we pulled together. And the current war, by comparison, has fewer American casualties than the rest. So it can’t just be the war itself.


People complain about corruption, but what’s new about government corruption? In the 19th century we had railroad scandals; in the 20th century we endured the Teapot Dome scandal, Watergate, Koreagate, and many others without too much anger and resentment. Yet today it seems anger is pervasive and worse than we’ve experienced in the past.


Could it be that war, vague yet persistent economic uncertainty, corruption, and the immigration problem all contribute to the anger we feel in America? Perhaps, but it’s almost as though people aren’t exactly sure why they are so uneasy. They only know that they’ve had it and aren’t going to put up with it anymore.


High gasoline prices make a lot of people angry, though there is little understanding of how deficits, inflation, and war in the Middle East all contribute to these higher prices.


Generally speaking, there are two controlling forces that determine the nature of government: the people’s concern for their economic self-interests; and the philosophy of those who hold positions of power and influence in any particular government. Under Soviet Communism the workers believed their economic best interests were being served, while a few dedicated theoreticians placed themselves in positions of power. Likewise, the intellectual leaders of the American Revolution were few, but rallied the colonists to risk all to overthrow a tyrannical king.


Since there’s never a perfect understanding between these two forces the people and the philosophical leaders and because the motivations of the intellectual leaders vary greatly, any transition from one system of government to another is unpredictable. The communist takeover by Lenin was violent and costly; the demise of communism and the acceptance of a relatively open system in the former Soviet Union occurred in a miraculous manner. Both systems had intellectual underpinnings.


In the United States over the last century we have witnessed the coming and going of various intellectual influences by proponents of the free market, Keynesian welfarism, varieties of socialism, and supply-side economics. In foreign policy we’ve seen a transition from the founder’s vision of non-intervention in the affairs of others to internationalism, unilateral nation building, and policing the world. We now have in place a policy, driven by determined neo-conservatives, to promote American “goodness” and democracy throughout the world by military force – with particular emphasis on remaking the Middle East.


We all know that ideas do have consequences. Bad ideas, even when supported naďvely by the people, will have bad results. Could it be the people sense, in a profound way, that the policies of recent decades are unworkable – and thus they have instinctively lost confidence in their government leaders? This certainly happened in the final years of the Soviet system. Though not fully understood, this sense of frustration may well be the source of anger we hear expressed on a daily basis by so many.


No matter how noble the motivations of political leaders are, when they achieve positions of power the power itself inevitably becomes their driving force. Government officials too often yield to the temptations and corrupting influences of power.


But there are many others who are not bashful about using government power to do “good.” They truly believe they can make the economy fair through a redistributive tax and spending system; make the people moral by regulating personal behavior and choices; and remake the world in our image using armies. They argue that the use of force to achieve good is legitimate and proper for government – always speaking of the noble goals while ignoring the inevitable failures and evils caused by coercion.


Not only do they justify government force, they believe they have a moral obligation to do so.


Once we concede government has this “legitimate” function and can be manipulated by a majority vote, the various special interests move in quickly. They gain control to direct government largesse for their own benefit. Too often it is corporate interests who learn how to manipulate every contract, regulation, and tax policy. Likewise, promoters of the “progressive” agenda, always hostile to property rights, compete for government power through safety, health, and environmental initiatives. Both groups resort to using government power – and abuse this power – in an effort to serve their narrow interests. In the meantime, constitutional limits on power and its mandate to protect liberty are totally forgotten.


Since the use of power to achieve political ends is accepted, pervasive, and ever expanding, popular support for various programs is achieved by creating fear. Sometimes the fear is concocted out of thin air, but usually it’s created by wildly exaggerating a problem or incident that does not warrant the proposed government “solution.” Often government caused the problem in the first place. The irony, of course, is that government action rarely solves any problem, but rather worsens existing problems or creates altogether new ones.


Fear is generated to garner popular support for the proposed government action, even when some liberty has to be sacrificed. This leads to a society that is systemically driven toward fear – fear that gives the monstrous government more and more authority and control over our lives and property.


Fear is constantly generated by politicians to rally the support of the people.


Environmentalists go back and forth, from warning about a coming ice age to arguing the grave dangers of global warming.


It is said that without an economic safety net – for everyone, from cradle to grave – people would starve and many would become homeless.


It is said that without government health care, the poor would not receive treatment. Medical care would be available only to the rich.


Without government insuring pensions, all private pensions would be threatened.


Without federal assistance, there would be no funds for public education, and the quality of our public schools would diminish – ignoring recent history to the contrary.


It is argued that without government surveillance of every American, even without search warrants, security cannot be achieved. The sacrifice of some liberty is required for security of our citizens, they claim.


We are constantly told that the next terrorist attack could come at any moment. Rather than questioning why we might be attacked, this atmosphere of fear instead prompts giving up liberty and privacy. 9/11 has been conveniently used to generate the fear necessary to expand both our foreign intervention and domestic surveillance.


Fear of nuclear power is used to assure shortages and highly expensive energy.


In all instances where fear is generated and used to expand government control, it’s safe to say the problems behind the fears were not caused by the free market economy, or too much privacy, or excessive liberty.


It’s easy to generate fear, fear that too often becomes excessive, unrealistic, and difficult to curb. This is important: It leads to even more demands for government action than the perpetrators of the fear actually anticipated.


Once people look to government to alleviate their fears and make them safe, expectations exceed reality. FEMA originally had a small role, but its current mission is to centrally manage every natural disaster that befalls us. This mission was exposed as a fraud during last year’s hurricanes; incompetence and corruption are now FEMA’s legacy. This generates anger among those who have to pay the bills, and among those who didn’t receive the handouts promised to them quickly enough.


Generating exaggerated fear to justify and promote attacks on private property is commonplace. It serves to inflame resentment between the producers in society and the so-called victims, whose demands grow exponentially.


The economic impossibility of this system guarantees that the harder government tries to satisfy the unlimited demands, the worse the problems become. We won’t be able to pay the bills forever, and eventually our ability to borrow and print new money must end. This dependency on government will guarantee anger when the money runs out. Today we’re still able to borrow and inflate, but budgets are getting tighter and people sense serious problems lurking in the future. This fear is legitimate. No easy solution to our fiscal problems is readily apparent, and this ignites anger and apprehension.


Disenchantment is directed at the politicians and their false promises, made in order to secure reelection and exert power that so many of them enjoy.


It is, however, in foreign affairs that governments have most abused fear to generate support for an agenda that under normal circumstances would have been rejected. For decades our administrations have targeted one supposed “Hitler” after another to gain support for military action against a particular country. Today we have three choices termed the axis of evil: Iran, Iraq or North Korea.


We recently witnessed how unfounded fear was generated concerning Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction to justify our first pre-emptive war. It is now universally known the fear was based on falsehoods. And yet the war goes on; the death and destruction continue.


This is not a new phenomenon. General Douglas MacArthur understood the political use of fear when he made this famous statement:



“Always there has been some terrible evil at home or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up if we did not blindly rally behind it.”


We should be ever vigilant when we hear the fear mongers preparing us for the next military conflict our young men and women will be expected to fight. We’re being told of the great danger posed by Ahmadinejad in Iran and Kim Jung Il in North Korea. Even Russia and China bashing is in vogue again. And we’re still not able to trade with or travel to Cuba. A constant enemy is required to expand the state. More and more news stories blame Iran for the bad results in Iraq. Does this mean Iran is next on the hit list?


The world is much too dangerous, we’re told, and therefore we must be prepared to fight at a moment’s notice regardless of the cost. If the public could not be manipulated by politicians’ efforts to instill needless fear, fewer wars would be fought and far fewer lives would be lost.



Fear and Anger over Iraq


Though the American people are fed up for a lot of legitimate reasons, almost all polls show the mess in Iraq leads the list of why the anger is so intense.


Short wars, with well-defined victories, are tolerated by the American people even when they are misled as to the reasons for the war. Wars entered into without a proper declaration tend to be politically motivated and not for national security reasons. These wars, by their very nature, are prolonged, costly, and usually require a new administration to finally end them. This certainly was true with the Korean and Vietnam wars. The lack of a quick military success, the loss of life and limb, and the huge economic costs of lengthy wars precipitate anger. This is overwhelmingly true when the war propaganda that stirred up illegitimate fears is exposed as a fraud. Most soon come to realize the promise of guns and butter is an illusion. They come to understand that inflation, a weak economy, and a prolonged war without real success are the reality.


The anger over the Iraq war is multifaceted. Some are angry believing they were lied to in order to gain their support at the beginning. Others are angry that the forty billion dollars we spend every year on intelligence gathering failed to provide good information. Proponents of the war too often are unable to admit the truth. They become frustrated with the progress of the war and then turn on those wanting to change course, angrily denouncing them as unpatriotic and un-American.


Those accused are quick to respond to the insulting charges made by those who want to fight on forever without regard to casualties. Proponents of the war do not hesitate to challenge the manhood of war critics, accusing them of wanting to cut and run. Some war supporters ducked military service themselves while others fought and died, only adding to the anger of those who have seen battle up close and question our campaign in Iraq.


When people see a $600 million embassy being built in Baghdad, while funding for services here in the United States is hard to obtain, they become angry. They can’t understand why the money is being spent, especially when they are told by our government that we have no intention of remaining permanently in Iraq.


The bickering and anger will not subside soon, since victory in Iraq is not on the horizon and a change in policy is not likely to occur.


The neoconservative instigators of the war are angry at everyone: at the people who want to get out of Iraq; and especially at those prosecuting the war for not bombing more aggressively, sending more troops, and expanding the war into Iran.


As our country becomes poorer due to the cost of the war, anger surely will escalate. Some of it will be justified.


It seems bizarre that it’s so unthinkable to change course if the current policy is failing. Our leaders are like a physician who makes a wrong diagnosis and prescribes the wrong medicine, but because of his ego can’t tell the patient he made a mistake. Instead he hopes the patient will get better on his own. But instead of improving, the patient gets worse from the medication wrongly prescribed. This would be abhorrent behavior in medicine, but tragically it is commonplace in politics.


If the truth is admitted, it would appear that the lives lost and the money spent have been in vain. Instead, more casualties must be sustained to prove a false premise. If the truth is admitted, imagine the anger of all the families that already have suffered such a burden. That burden is softened when the families and the wounded are told their great sacrifice was worthy, and required to preserve our freedoms and our Constitution.


But no one is allowed to ask the obvious. How have the 2,500 plus deaths, and the 18,500 wounded, made us more free? What in the world does Iraq have to do with protecting our civil liberties here at home? What national security threat prompted American’s first pre-emptive war? How does our unilateral enforcement of UN resolutions enhance our freedoms?


These questions aren’t permitted. They are not politically correct. I agree that the truth hurts, and the questions are terribly hurtful to the families that have suffered so much. What a horrible thought it would be to find out the cause for which we fight is not quite so noble.


I don’t believe those who hide from the truth and refuse to face the reality of the war do so deliberately. The pain is too great. Deep down, psychologically, many are incapable of admitting such a costly and emotionally damaging error. They instead become even greater and more determined supporters of the failed policy.


I would concede that there are some – especially the die-hard neoconservatives, who believe it is our moral duty to spread American goodness through force and remake the Middle East – who neither suffer regrets nor are bothered by the casualties. They continue to argue for more war without remorse, as long as they themselves do not have to fight. Criticism is reserved for the wimps who want to “cut and run.”


Due to the psychological need to persist with the failed policy, the war proponents must remain in denial of many facts staring them in the face.


They refuse to accept that the real reason for our invasion and occupation of Iraq was not related to terrorism.


They deny that our military is weaker as a consequence of this war.


They won’t admit that our invasion has served the interests of Osama Bin Laden. They continue to blame our image problems around the world on a few bad apples.


They won’t admit that our invasion has served the interests of Iran’s radical regime.


The cost in lives lost and dollars spent is glossed over, and the deficit spirals up without concern.


They ridicule those who point out that our relationships with our allies have been significantly damaged.


We have provided a tremendous incentive for Russia and China, and others like Iran, to organize through the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. They entertain future challenges to our plans to dominate South East Asia, the Middle East, and all its oil.


Radicalizing the Middle East will in the long term jeopardize Israel’s security, and increase the odds of this war spreading.


War supporters cannot see that for every Iraqi killed, another family turns on us – regardless of who did the killing. We are and will continue to be blamed for every wrong done in Iraq: all deaths, illness, water problems, food shortages, and electricity outages.


As long as our political leaders persist in these denials, the war won’t end. The problem is that this is the source of the anger, because the American people are not in denial and want a change in policy.


Policy changes in wartime are difficult, for it is almost impossible for the administration to change course since so much emotional energy has been invested in the effort. That’s why Eisenhower ended the Korean War, and not Truman. That’s why Nixon ended the Vietnam War, and not LBJ. Even in the case of Vietnam the end was too slow and costly, as more then 30,000 military deaths came after Nixon’s election in 1968. It makes a lot more sense to avoid unnecessary wars than to overcome the politics involved in stopping them once started. I personally am convinced that many of our wars could be prevented by paying stricter attention to the method whereby our troops are committed to battle. I also am convinced that when Congress does not declare war, victory is unlikely.


The most important thing Congress can do to prevent needless and foolish wars is for every member to take seriously his or her oath to obey the Constitution. Wars should be entered into only after great deliberation and caution. Wars that are declared by Congress should reflect the support of the people, and the goal should be a quick and successful resolution.


Our undeclared wars over the past 65 years have dragged on without precise victories. We fight to spread American values, to enforce UN resolutions, and to slay supposed Hitlers. We forget that we once spread American values by persuasion and setting an example – not by bombs and preemptive invasions. Nowhere in the Constitution are we permitted to go to war on behalf of the United Nations at the sacrifice of our national sovereignty. We repeatedly use military force against former allies, thugs we helped empower – like Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden – even when they pose no danger to us.


The 2002 resolution allowing the president to decide when and if to invade Iraq is an embarrassment. The Constitution authorizes only Congress to declare war. Our refusal to declare war transferred power to the president illegally, without a constitutional amendment. Congress did this with a simple resolution, passed by majority vote. This means Congress reneged on its responsibility as a separate branch of government, and should be held accountable for the bad policy in Iraq that the majority of Americans are now upset about. Congress is every bit as much at fault as the president.


Constitutional questions aside, the American people should have demanded more answers from their government before they supported the invasion and occupation of a foreign country.


Some of the strongest supporters of the war declare that we are a Christian nation, yet use their religious beliefs to justify the war. They claim it is our Christian duty to remake the Middle East and attack the Muslim infidels. Evidently I have been reading from a different Bible. I remember something about “Blessed are the peacemakers.”


My beliefs aside, Christian teaching of nearly a thousand years reinforces the concept of “Just War Theory.” This Christian theory emphasizes six criteria needed to justify Christian participation in war. Briefly the six points are as follows:



  1. War should be fought only in self-defense;
  2. War should be undertaken only as a last resort;
  3. A decision to enter war should be made only by a legitimate authority;
  4. All military responses must be proportional to the threat;
  5. There must be a reasonable chance of success; and
  6. A public declaration notifying all parties concerned is required.

The war in Iraq fails to meet almost all of these requirements. This discrepancy has generated anger and division within the Christian community.


Some are angry because the war is being fought out of Christian duty, yet does not have uniform support from all Christians. Others are angry because they see Christianity as a religion as peace and forgiveness, not war and annihilation of enemies.


Constitutional and moral restraints on war should be strictly followed. It is understandable when kings, dictators, and tyrants take their people into war, since it serves their selfish interests – and those sent to fight have no say in the matter. It is more difficult to understand why democracies and democratic legislative bodies, which have a say over the issue of war, so readily submit to the executive branch of government. The determined effort of the authors of our Constitution to firmly place the power to declare war in the legislative branch has been ignored in the decades following WWII.


Many members have confided in me that they are quite comfortable with this arrangement. They flatly do not expect, in this modern age, to formally declare war ever again. Yet no one predicts there will be fewer wars fought. It is instead assumed they will be ordered by the executive branch or the United Nations – a rather sad commentary.


What about the practical arguments against war, since no one seems interested in exerting constitutional or moral restraints? Why do we continue to fight prolonged, political wars when the practical results are so bad? Our undeclared wars since 1945 have been very costly, to put it mildly. We have suffered over one hundred thousand military deaths, and even more serious casualties. Tens of thousands have suffered from serious war-related illnesses. Sadly, we as a nation express essentially no concern for the millions of civilian casualties in the countries where we fought.


The cost of war since 1945, and our military presence in over 100 countries, exceeds two trillion dollars in today’s dollars. The cost in higher taxes, debt, and persistent inflation is immeasurable. Likewise, the economic opportunities lost by diverting trillions of dollars into war is impossible to measure, but it is huge. Yet our presidents persist in picking fights with countries that pose no threat to us, refusing to participate in true diplomacy to resolve differences. Congress over the decades has never resisted the political pressures to send our troops abroad on missions that defy imagination.


When the people object to a new adventure, the propaganda machine goes into action to make sure critics are seen as unpatriotic Americans or even traitors.


The military-industrial complex we were warned about has been transformed into a military-media-industrial-government complex that is capable of silencing the dissenters and cheerleading for war. It’s only after years of failure that people are able to overcome the propaganda for war and pressure their representatives in Congress to stop the needless killing. Many times the economic costs of war stir people to demand an end. This time around the war might be brought to a halt by our actual inability to pay the bills due to a dollar crisis. A dollar crisis will make borrowing 2.5 billion dollars per day from foreign powers like China and Japan virtually impossible, at least at affordable interest rates.


That’s when we will be forced to reassess the spending spree, both at home and abroad.


The solution to this mess is not complicated; but the changes needed are nearly impossible for political reasons. Sound free market economics, sound money, and a sensible foreign policy would all result from strict adherence to the Constitution. If the people desired it, and Congress was filled with responsible members, a smooth although challenging transition could be achieved. Since this is unlikely, we can only hope that the rule of law and the goal of liberty can be reestablished without chaos.


We must move quickly toward a more traditional American foreign policy of peace, friendship, and trade with all nations; entangling alliances with none. We must reject the notion that we can or should make the world safe for democracy. We must forget about being the world’s policeman. We should disengage from the unworkable and unforgiving task of nation building. We must reject the notion that our military should be used to protect natural resources, private investments, or serve the interest of any foreign government or the United Nations. Our military should be designed for one purpose: defending our national security. It’s time to come home now, before financial conditions or military weakness dictates it.


The major obstacle to a sensible foreign policy is the fiction about what patriotism means. Today patriotism has come to mean blind support for the government and its policies. In earlier times patriotism meant having the willingness and courage to challenge government policies regardless of popular perceptions.


Today we constantly hear innuendos and direct insults aimed at those who dare to challenge current foreign policy, no matter how flawed that policy may be. I would suggest it takes more courage to admit the truth, to admit mistakes, than to attack others as unpatriotic for disagreeing with the war in Iraq.


Remember, the original American patriots challenged the abuses of King George, and wrote and carried out the Declaration of Independence.


Yes Mr. Speaker, there is a lot of anger in this country. Much of it is justified; some of it is totally unnecessary and misdirected. The only thing that can lessen this anger is an informed public, a better understanding of economic principles, a rejection of foreign intervention, and a strict adherence to the constitutional rule of law. This will be difficult to achieve, but it’s not impossible and well worth the effort.





July 1, 2006













Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.


What I understand is that your are angry.
I feel your pain for lives lost. I have my own brother whohas served 4 tours and a brother-in-law has served 3 tours so far. Fortunately, we still have them, but they will never be the same. And they will be the first ones in line to protect these children if they can. But not all soldiers are built the same are they? Otherwise, there would be no war crimes.

I wonder if you would feel the same if they were your children in the camps? Reverse the scenario. You are dead, your husband is dead, your 12-year-old has turned into a rebel. Highly understandable how that could happen isn't it? How would you like your child to be regarded in such a fashion as your words of "educating them to be more than the animals that they are"?

I would rather be a bleeding heart than such a cold dead person where those words could ever be acceptable.
Not a bit angry....lol Thanks for the compliment, tho.
nm
bitter and angry
'Bitter and angry'... TRANSLATION:  As a black woman she is not subservient or meek, does not do the 'buck and shuffle' or says 'yes'm and give you teeth and gums to make her 'acceptable' or even tolerable.  Bitter and angry...seems as if you are the one with the bitterness and anger to make such a narrow minded bigoted comment about a black woman who happens to be married to a black man who has the GALL to run for the highest office in this land...(LOL)everyone says this election is not about race but that is a flat out lie.  Question:  if the two parties who were running for this office white, would there be such a fuss?  I think not. Truthfully, in past elections the majority of either party were caucasian and that particular issue was not an issue when we voted for whoever we believed could do the job to the best of their ability.  This election has shown that IT IS ABOUT RACE because it DEFINITELY was made an issue by the racist bigoted media, by individuals such as Pat Buchanan and Bill O'Reilly (who some truly believe is their Messiah).  God gave us free will when he created us, and one of the freedoms we were given was to think for ourselves.  I am a black woman and I will convey to everyone on this board that NO ONE thinks for ME, and because I AM black it is assumed that I will vote for Obama - if that is not bigoted I don't know what is.  I will tell you this though - one thing I have learned from this election is that racism in this country is alive and well and has reared its ugly head, and a lot of things that people feel in their hearts regarding minorities are NOT being hidden because the comfort level to say such ugly and bigoted racist things seems not to be a problem.  I have never seen such ugliness and hatred on this board as long as I have been participating.  It's past sad, it really is 
she 'seems' angry
Here we go again....when did she say she 'hated' this country?  And who are you to ASSUME what she is teaching her daughters?.  Looks like you have a case of 'i wish THOSE people stayed in their place' and 'who do THEY think they ARE?'although you don't have the guts to come out and say it.  Good thing  intelligent people know how to read between the lines of what you are saying.
bitter/angry
no, not 'bitter, angry or RACIST - just telling it like it is...
bitter/angry

sm:  In response to this post; apparently you DID NOT read EVERYTHING included in my initial post.  As far as you 'wishing i don't have young people around me to hear this year in and year out' - you can say whatever you want.  You don't know me nor I you but I do know this - racism exists and some of the posts here prove it. I have done many positive things in my life; and with the young people that I feel blessed to be in my life, the main message I give them is that no matter what, we are ALL the same, and to treat others better than they may be treated.  You should read my WHOLE post, if you don't - you don't.


I just get very angry when I see BILLIONS of...

dollars being given away to Wall Street crooks with absolutely NO accounting as to who is getting how much, yet the MOST important Americans (again, IMHO) are the troops who are sacrificing their lives for us, and they receive the least in return.


I'm copying and pasting the text of the article below.  The interview, I believe, is very powerful, but at least if I can copy the text, you'll have some notion of what this is about.


(May I just say God bless you and your husband and your entire family.  I hope he returns to you soon.)


---


CBS: KBR knowingly exposed troops to toxic dust







David Edwards and Muriel Kane
Published: Tuesday December 23, 2008



A CBS News investigation has obtained evidence that a subsidiary of Halliburton, the giant energy company formerly headed by Vice President (bad word - can't post) Cheney, knowingly exposed United States soldiers to toxic materials in Iraq.

CBS interviewed Commander James Gentry of the Indiana National Guard, who is dying of a rare form of lung cancer that he believes is the result of "months of inhaling hexavalent chromium" after his battalion was assigned in April 2003 to protect contractors from Kellogg Brown & Root (KBR) working in Iraq at a local water plant. Other members of his unit are also suffering from cancers or rashes associated with the toxic chemical, which was all over the plant.

"We didn't question what we were doing," a grief-stricken Gentry told CBS. "We just knew we had to provide a security service for the KBR. ... We would never have been there if we would have known."

CBS has obtained documents which indicate that KBR knew about the danger months before the soldiers were informed. KBR employee depositions show there were "concerns about the toxins in one part of the plant as early as May of 2003," while later minutes detail symptoms of exposure, including bloody noses and rashes.

It wasn't until the end of August that the Indiana National Guardsmen were informed that the plant was contaminated, and some say they have only just learned about it this year.

Indiana Senator Evan Bayh told CBS, "I think the burden of proof at this point is on the company to come forward and very forthrightly explain what happened, why we should trust them, and why the health and well-being of our soldiers should continue to be in their hands."

KBR has issued a statement saying, "We deny the assertion that KBR harmed troops and was responsible for an unsafe condition."

KBR, which was spun off by Halliburton in 2007 as a separate corporation, has previously been accused of providing contaminated water to troops in Iraq, taking kickbacks, and sending workers to Iraq against their will.

The full CBS story can be read here.


This video is from CBS's Evening News, broadcast Dec. 22, 2008.


Oh yeah, I'm angry
I've been angry for a long time at the behind the scenes machinations that go on in Washington.  The problem is - if we expose them all, and it obviously involves pretty much "everybody" we elected, then what?  Overthrow and impeach everyone on Capitol Hill and start over - with who?  Is there even such a thing as an honest politician that won't sell us out to pad their bank account?  The system is rotten to the core, and how will it ever be fixed - a plan needs to be made, but any plan to fix this mess will be voted down by the very people that are part of it.
Oh, I am so angry and so tired! sm
How can we tolerate this no SS increase for at least two years? I just posted on the gab board and I am so absolutely livid for all who have worked all their tired lives! How can we sit still for this when expensive sneakers and white tie dinners are being portrayed and $10,000 earrings are being worn on election night? What is this leader thinking??? Please, please write, call, complain to everyone who will listen. This is horrible! I am so very upset right now about this and the sad thing is that it is about our working poor, elderly.
I was angry with Clinton for the things

I was only in high school at the time, but I remember being angry with Clinton, and I remember telling people that I thought he did it just to take the heat off of himself for his messy affair.  Of course, at the time I was not into politics really, and it definitely was not an educated opinion on my part, but that is what I thought, to answer your question.


I am angry that Bush (and Congress) did not prepare more before heading to war.  Where were the armored trucks?  Where was the body armour?  Where was a workable plan for getting in and getting out.  We are the richest country in the world, but we did not take enough precautions to keep our soldiers as safe as possible.


I blame many of our country's problems not just onBush, but on the big corporations (oil companies being one of the most powerful) that I believe are buying off our politicians and running this country.  It just so happens that many in the Bush administration previously worked in the petroleum industry.... hmmm, makes you wonder.  I don't know everything about every issue, but I believe in my heart of hearts that Bush does not care about the American people nearly as much as he cares about himself, his rich friends, and his pocketbook.  He reminds me of Cartmen on Southpark "I do what I want" seems to be his attitute at every turn, and imo it makes America looks bad.


You're cute when you are angry.

nm


 


Some angry investor will probably show up at his - sm
door someday and shoot him. And others like him.

Hope it happens.
I did...so angry I can't type straight!...nm
//
Agree....seems very bitter and angry....
what her two little girls are learning from her. To hate their country, to feel oppressed, to believe they have been wronged all the time. Everything she spoke of that was so condemning of her country, of which I might add she got a very wonderful education and job in, speaks volumes about her.
Angry Christian? You bet when I hear someone who
calls themself a Christian and says they are voting for Obama.

Don't quote Scripture to me taken out of context that does not apply to these threads, especially in light of the fact that you are an Obama supporter and in DIRECT rebellion to God's Word. Do you think He will be mocked?

Actually, I doubt God is hearing your prayers. He himself says He only hears the prayers of the righteous. He shuts His ears to those who believe not His Word and who believe NOT on His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Do you have a personal relationship with Jesus, has your life been turned around 180-degrees, do you want to please HIM more than yourself, do you believe Him when He says there is One Way and Only One Way to HIM and that is through His Son, the Lord Jesus?

Obama believes none of those things, but he calls himself a Christian. What say you? Can you vote for a liar and deceiver as president and "quote" Scripture while doing so?

BTW, I did not call you "granny," I called you "old gal," assuming you had been around for a while to know better. Obviously not. Ignorance knows no age limit.

Get off the angry Christian bit. Ever heard of righteous indignation?

"Be angry and sin not." It's okay to be angry, that's not a sin. It is a sin to vote for Obama.

You can't have it both ways, hypocrit.
You should be embarassed and angry he is our president at all..nm
x
Wow you are an angry SORE LOSER! LOL
Take your ball and go on home!  LOL
MLK had angry rants and he was REPUBLICAN!
nm
You post that and call us angry cowards. sm
Alrighty then.
"angry right". Yeah, lol. The left is so angry and
nm
We get angry and defensive because we are tired of hearing..sm
the same-old same-old and the suspicions and negative remarks over and over again.
To Woofer: These are just sad, miserable, angry people who...

...don't want to see America succeed. 


Personally, I'm thinking maybe it's best to just ignore them because each time I respond to a negative post, all I do is feed it, and I'm tired of doing that.


Unfortunately, this board is becoming downright toxic because of all the anger, hatred, whining and complaining from the very sore losers. 


The good news is that 78% of the country wants to see America succeed, so I have great hope for a much brighter future for my daughter and grandchildren.


What does OBAMA have to do with your work? Are you just so angry you spill it over to everything? h
nm
Angry, smug and terminally self-righteous.
x
Like I was embarassed and angry when Bush was our president?
I guess Obama will have to resort to the sneaky tactics Bush did - push bills through while Congress is out of session.
There are a lot of angry folks in the US with nothing left to lose.
.
Wow another angry rant by a SORE LOSER!
You LOST.  The Good Guys Won.  Get OVER IT! You'll feel better when you begin to confront your angry, hurt feelings and realize how much America repudiated your TREASON and your HATE. 
You Repubs and your angry rants are PITIFUL.

You Lost.  You are no longer in power.  America repudiated your hate, greed, racism and just generally STUPIDITY.  Get over it!!  Take your ball and GO HOME!


Violently angry. Please...wishful thinking on your part...nm

A response to Ron Paul's article by one of those angry Americans.sm
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig7/fassanella1.html
Angry Mothers and Trembling Grizzlies: The Sheehan Effect







Angry Mothers and Trembling Grizzlies: The Sheehan Effect
by Dr. Teresa Whitehurst


"Sheehan has been involved in protests against Bush since last year. She founded Gold Star Families for Peace...She said she decided to seek another audience with Bush when she heard his comments about the war last week, after a spike in American deaths. The fallen men and women "died in a noble cause," Bush said Wednesday. "Their families can know that we will honor their loved ones' sacrifice by completing the mission."


"Sheehan said she wants to tell Bush not to use her son's death as a reason to continue the war, and to ask "why (Bush's twin daughters) Jenna and Barbara and the other children of the architects of this disastrous war are not in harm's way, if the cause is so noble." ArmyTimes.com, August 8, 2005


For some, Cindy Sheehan's lonely journey through the shock and sorrow of her son Casey's death in Iraq is of no interest. What, they ask, is the big deal? One soldier killed, one mother grieving – so what? Mothers have no business meddling in the manly business of war, or expressing inconvenient, disloyal, unpatriotic feelings like grief or anger. Get over it, critics command, and think about "the mission" instead, a mission that "we should see through" so that other people can't make fun of us for "cutting and running."


Instead of focusing on one poor misguided woman, or on how many more Americans and innocent Iraqi families will be killed in this war, we're told to think about how great it will be when other people admire us for killing every terrorist and future terrorist in the whole wide world. Instead of thinking about the new fundamentalist Islamic "democracy" that Bush's war has ushered in for the poor girls and women of Iraq, think about "the good news" way, way down the road when they get used to wearing the burqa and live happily ever after. In short, Americans should focus on "the big picture."


But for mothers – even those who've tried valiantly to believe the president when he exclaims that the war on Iraq is a "noble cause" – there IS no big picture. For mothers of slain soldiers, there are only little pictures: their lost child smiling at 10 months in his high chair; riding his first bike without training wheels; opening Christmas presents (Hot Wheels, Transformers, or GI Joe); and making silly faces for the camera.


The little picture encompasses all those times when parents stay up all night with their sick children, or protect them from bullies, or wipe away their tears after a friend's rejection. It's not just the happy times that mothers remember, it's the multitude of little moments, little pictures in a parent's mind, of time and love invested in one's offspring. When this enormous investment is squandered by reckless military adventures that zip kids into body bags, parents are owed great compensation. And they are owed the truth.


Do George and Laura Bush ever imagine how it would feel if all they had left of their beloved child was, as Cindy Sheehan has, a few snapshots and an abyss of sorrow in their hearts? Must they suppress their natural compassion in order to convince themselves of their own administration's spin – that it's "worth it" when American kids die far away from home for reasons that have consistently turned out to be false?


Do the Bushes feel the earth tremble beneath their feet at the mere thought that thousands of parents of slain soldiers are beginning to ask questions, to see the folly for which their children died…to find their voice?


Cindy remembers the little picture, which is why George has been hiding from her. She is his worst nightmare, for she is not just Cindy Sheehan, mother of Casey. She is Every Mother. And, no matter how uncomfortable it gets, she's not going to dishonor her son by saying, "Well okay, if you say so, I guess this war was worth my boy's life."


Support Our Wars or Else


What does it really mean to "honor" a soldier's death…and life? To say that he or she willingly died "to end terrorism" (impossible), or "make Iraq a democracy" (ditto)? Unless they were suicidal when they enlisted (I know one boy who was), dying in Iraq is not the soldier's "sacrifice" because by definition, a sacrifice is something that we choose and willingly make. Most young people never imagined when they enlisted – often for reasons their recruiters understood but their parents didn't, such as finding a sense of belonging, or escaping bad neighborhoods or dead-end jobs, or finding a way to afford college some day – that they'd be dead within a matter of months.


To swallow ridiculous, ever-changing reasons for the futile war that has killed over 1800 idealistic youths with their whole lives ahead of them is to take the easy, socially acceptable way out. Pro-war pundits and politicians constantly threaten parents with social disapproval and even hatred if they dare to question those reasons – and it's worked for a long time. Parents have felt pressured to mouth the hawks' lines, lest their love for their child be called into question.


What a devilishly mean but perfect system for subduing the parents of fallen soldiers! Politicians and talk show hosts threaten: "Support our troops (the war), or we'll accuse you of dishonoring your dead child." The last thing that worried or grieving parents can bear is the suggestion that they're "dishonoring" the memory of the one they love. And so they have acquiesced. They have submitted. Archie Bunker would be pleased: Like Edith, they've learned to stifle themselves.


Until now.


Protective Fury: The Tipping Point


One day, back when Americans lived in peace and we'd never even heard of the Bush dynasty or the plotting neocons whose reckless ambitions it would serve, I was watching a nature show about grizzly bears in their natural habitat. I will never forget one particularly electrifying scene that comes to mind whenever I hear about Cindy Sheehan's vigil outside Mr. Bush's gated compound.


A large male grizzly came upon two adorable little grizzly cubs, who looked up at him with wonder and naivete; clearly, they didn't realize the danger they were in. To my great surprise, however, the male grizzly stood bolt upright as though startled, then starting running away from those harmless little cubs. Why on earth did he do that, I wondered. The narrator explained that the male knew instinctively that there's nothing more dangerous than a mother grizzly who senses that her cubs may be harmed.


As the huge male ran off into the woods, the narrator continued: "While the male grizzly is larger and could probably kill the female, he knows that in the process, her protective fury would leave him seriously, if not mortally, wounded. Mother grizzly bears will fight to the death for their young, ripping the flesh of any animal, no matter how large, that threatens their cubs. Coming upon the youngsters frightened the adult male so badly that he ran and hid because the mother, unseen but without a doubt somewhere near by, could at any moment sniff his presence and roar into action."


Human males can also sense danger, and know very well the hazards of facing protective mothers – particularly when other mothers are watching, too. This explains why the mainstream media has worked so hard to make antiwar parents of fallen soldiers look pitiful, and why George Bush is hiding inside his compound, hoping that Ms. Sheehan will lose interest and go away.


But what the president doesn't understand is this: She's not going to lose interest, and furthermore it isn't just Cindy Sheehan anymore. Parents of servicemen and women all over the country are beginning to see the little picture again. This is the tipping point, a showdown fueled by motherly devotion that will embolden other families to start questioning the integrity and fitness of this administration and this president: It's what I call the Sheehan Effect.


And that's the worst news ever for a man who can only see the "the mission," the big picture, and how noble it will look under "Bush, George W." in the history books.


Thanks so much for proving my point about the angry, hate-filled left. sm
You did a perfect job of it.  You are incapable of thought other than that driven by hate. Your debates are screeds and your voice is strident and laced with the same adjectives...the word liar comes to mind. Which, of course, you are.
Bush angry with Rove for being CLUMSY in discrediting Wilson!






*But the President felt Rove and other members of the White House damage-control team did a clumsy job in their campaign to discredit Plame's husband, Joseph Wilson, the ex-diplomat who criticized Bush's claim that Saddam Hussen tried to buy weapons-grade uranium in Niger.*


New York Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com

Bush whacked
Rove on CIA leak

BY THOMAS M. DeFRANK
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF
Wednesday, October 19th, 2005

WASHINGTON - An angry President Bush rebuked chief political guru Karl Rove two years ago for his role in the Valerie Plame affair, sources told the Daily News.

He made his displeasure known to Karl, a presidential counselor told The News. He made his life miserable about this.

Bush has nevertheless remained doggedly loyal to Rove, who friends and even political adversaries acknowledge is the architect of the President's rise from baseball owner to leader of the free world.

As special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald nears a decision, perhaps as early as today, on whether to issue indictments in his two-year probe, Bush has already circled the wagons around Rove, whose departure would be a grievous blow to an already shell-shocked White House staff and a President in deep political trouble.

Asked if he believed indictments were forthcoming, a key Bush official said he did not know, then added: I'm very concerned it could go very, very badly.

Karl is fighting for his life, the official added, but anything he did was done to help George W. Bush. The President knows that and appreciates that.

Other sources confirmed, however, that Bush was initially furious with Rove in 2003 when his deputy chief of staff conceded he had talked to the press about the Plame leak.

Bush has always known that Rove often talks with reporters anonymously and he generally approved of such contacts, one source said.

But the President felt Rove and other members of the White House damage-control team did a clumsy job in their campaign to discredit Plame's husband, Joseph Wilson, the ex-diplomat who criticized Bush's claim that Saddam Hussen tried to buy weapons-grade uranium in Niger.

A second well-placed source said some recently published reports implying Rove had deceived Bush about his involvement in the Wilson counterattack were incorrect and were leaked by White House aides trying to protect the President.

Bush did not feel misled so much by Karl and others as believing that they handled it in a ham-handed and bush-league way, the source said.

None of these sources offered additional specifics of what Bush and Rove discussed in conversations beginning shortly after the Justice Department informed the White House in September 2003 that a criminal investigation had been launched into the leak of CIA agent Plame's identity to columnist Robert Novak.

A White House spokesman declined to comment, citing the ongoing nature of Fitzgerald's investigation.


Does this sound like more of the same or what?
nm
you sound no different than what men say...
I have no idea where you even got: Take pot shots at her skills or work history, but how can you possibly rip on her for having a career and children.

- so any woman who does not work and raises children which is probably THE most important job, they are beneath you?

and then this: Do you want us all barefoot, pregnant, and waiting on Ward hand and foot again?

ROTFL - who are you responding to?
You know, you may not mean to, but you sound...
supremely arrogant. You don't know me and you have ballooned something simple into something ridiculous.

Number one...I was not clear on the Infants born Alive Act, because the Infants Born Alive bill DID pass on the federal level..and I did lobby my congresspeople to vote for it, which they did, so obviously most of their constituents wanted them to pass it. Most people don't even know it went to the federal level and was passed. Nobody got up and announced that either...but I was following it. I follow those kinds of things, and believe me, locally people knew about it too. Most pro life groups knew about it. I was informed about in via email because I am in touch with pro life groups. So, again, please do not act like you know who I am or what I believe in or stand up for. Because you don't. And, by the way, Obama did not "weigh in" on the federal bill. I still find his stand on it in Illinois callous to the enth degree and his morality and decision making process, in MY opinion, are seriously lacking.

So, thankfully, no more babies piling up, unless of course he repeals the law when he becomes President. I would not put it past him.

Again, you might not mean to sound like you are on a high horse, but that is the way you come off.

As to looking to come out clean...all I said, and all I MEANT was: I am so opposed to Barack Obama, and everything I believe he stands for, that I will not be party to his getting into the white house in any way, shape or form. I campaign locally against him, I volunteer at the McCain offices, and will do whatever I can to prevent his being elected. Including not voting for him myself. BUT..if he IS elected...and the economy and this country take the road I think they will take...I will not have the added burden of regretting voting for him and giving him the power to hose this country. THAT has NOTHING to do with coming out clean in a mess.
You sound like me!!!
Our fridge is a Montgomery-Ward (no idea how old it is, but it still works). The stove has pilot lights - my mom's stove is over 20 years old and has electronic ignition. We have crap well water, too. Turns everything orange. God knows what's in it besides iron. We haul water from my family's homes 2 hours away every time we visit, for cooking and drinking. My husband and I had the bare minimum to start up with, so, I go to Salvation Army or Goodwill to buy household goods - glasses, casserole dishes, table cloths, etc. It's not MADE IN CHINA. It's good old fashioned stuff that has "character." And at the same time I am recycling and giving back to the community (screw Wal-Mart). I could care less about material crap. I do have a newer vehicle (Scion xB 2008) - but I needed something dependable to get me back and forth to help care for my dying father. My husband can't change a lightbulb and my old car was nickle and diming me to death. Most of my money goes to groceries, too. Now you have me craving crab legs.........
Nothing but the sound of crickets....

I got this from the conservative board, one of their faves.  Tee-hee.


You sound so sexist.

or not. You can still be predjucial against others, and you obviously have problems with women.


You sound like a kindergarner
You come by here and make little snips, not really saying anything, just trolling. If you have something to add, please say it, but try to act like a grownup.