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Bush angry with Rove for being CLUMSY in discrediting Wilson!

Posted By: Libby on 2005-10-20
In Reply to:







*But the President felt Rove and other members of the White House damage-control team did a clumsy job in their campaign to discredit Plame's husband, Joseph Wilson, the ex-diplomat who criticized Bush's claim that Saddam Hussen tried to buy weapons-grade uranium in Niger.*


New York Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com

Bush whacked
Rove on CIA leak

BY THOMAS M. DeFRANK
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF
Wednesday, October 19th, 2005

WASHINGTON - An angry President Bush rebuked chief political guru Karl Rove two years ago for his role in the Valerie Plame affair, sources told the Daily News.

He made his displeasure known to Karl, a presidential counselor told The News. He made his life miserable about this.

Bush has nevertheless remained doggedly loyal to Rove, who friends and even political adversaries acknowledge is the architect of the President's rise from baseball owner to leader of the free world.

As special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald nears a decision, perhaps as early as today, on whether to issue indictments in his two-year probe, Bush has already circled the wagons around Rove, whose departure would be a grievous blow to an already shell-shocked White House staff and a President in deep political trouble.

Asked if he believed indictments were forthcoming, a key Bush official said he did not know, then added: I'm very concerned it could go very, very badly.

Karl is fighting for his life, the official added, but anything he did was done to help George W. Bush. The President knows that and appreciates that.

Other sources confirmed, however, that Bush was initially furious with Rove in 2003 when his deputy chief of staff conceded he had talked to the press about the Plame leak.

Bush has always known that Rove often talks with reporters anonymously and he generally approved of such contacts, one source said.

But the President felt Rove and other members of the White House damage-control team did a clumsy job in their campaign to discredit Plame's husband, Joseph Wilson, the ex-diplomat who criticized Bush's claim that Saddam Hussen tried to buy weapons-grade uranium in Niger.

A second well-placed source said some recently published reports implying Rove had deceived Bush about his involvement in the Wilson counterattack were incorrect and were leaked by White House aides trying to protect the President.

Bush did not feel misled so much by Karl and others as believing that they handled it in a ham-handed and bush-league way, the source said.

None of these sources offered additional specifics of what Bush and Rove discussed in conversations beginning shortly after the Justice Department informed the White House in September 2003 that a criminal investigation had been launched into the leak of CIA agent Plame's identity to columnist Robert Novak.

A White House spokesman declined to comment, citing the ongoing nature of Fitzgerald's investigation.




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wilson versus rove
Ms. Wilson is Valerie Plame, she is married to Joseph Wilson.  She worked for the CIA but Rove gave her name to Robert Novak, thus jeopardizing her life. 
I have been trying to follow this Rove vs Wilson thing and I'm not sure what's going on, but I hope

they keep the pressure on, because IF our govt has behaved irresponsibly we need to know.


Bush admits to directing cheney to discredit Joe Wilson.

At the time, officials told said that Plame's outing resulted in *severe* damage to her team and *significantly hampered the CIA's ability to monitor nuclear proliferation.*  I guess personal kindergarten style paybacks are more important to Bush.  Just remember Bush's role in all this when he declares yet another war on Iran.



Bush Told Prosecutors He Directed Cheney to Discredit Joe Wilson


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/


George W. Bush, 9/30/2003:


I know of nobody -- I don't know of anybody in my administration who leaked classified information. If somebody did leak classified information, I'd like to know it, and we'll take the appropriate action. And this investigation is a good thing.


And again I repeat, you know, Washington is a town where there's all kinds of allegations. You've heard much of the allegations. And if people have got solid information, please come forward with it. And that would be people inside the information who are the so-called anonymous sources, or people outside the information -- outside the administration. And we can clarify this thing very quickly if people who have got solid evidence would come forward and speak out. And I would hope they would.


And then we'll get to the bottom of this and move on. But I want to tell you something -- leaks of classified information are a bad thing. And we've had them -- there's too much leaking in Washington. That's just the way it is. And we've had leaks out of the administrative branch, had leaks out of the legislative branch, and out of the executive branch and the legislative branch, and I've spoken out consistently against them and I want to know who the leakers are.


12/13/2005


Newspaper columnist Robert Novak is still not naming his source in the Valerie Plame affair, but he says he is pretty sure the name is no mystery to President Bush.


I'm confident the president knows who the source is, Novak told a luncheon audience at the John Locke Foundation in Raleigh on Tuesday. I'd be amazed if he doesn't.


So I say, 'Don't bug me. Don't bug Bob Woodward. Bug the president as to whether he should reveal who the source is.'



07/03/2006


Reports: Plame Was Monitoring Iran Nukes When Outed
By E&P Staff
Published: May 02, 2006 10:55 AM ET


NEW YORK What was Valerie Plame working on at the CIA when she was outed by administration officials and columnist Robert Novak? MSNBC's David Schuster on Monday said he had confirmed an earlier report that she was helping to keep track of Iran's nuclear activity--not a front and center issue for the White House.

Earlier this year, Larisa Alexandrovna of the Web site RawStory.com, reported that Plame, whose covert status was compromised in the leak, was monitoring weapons proliferation in Iran. At the time, officials told her that Plame's outing resulted in severe damage to her team and significantly hampered the CIA's ability to monitor nuclear proliferation.

On last night's Hardball, MSNBC correspondent Shuster reported that intelligence sources told him thatr Wilson was part of an operation three years ago tracking the proliferation of nuclear weapons material into Iran. And the sources asserted, he said, that when here Wilson's cover was blown, the administration's ability to track Iran's nuclear ambitions was damaged as well.


http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002426164


Like I was embarassed and angry when Bush was our president?
I guess Obama will have to resort to the sneaky tactics Bush did - push bills through while Congress is out of session.
Who is Ms.Wilson?
nm
I don't know who Ms Wilson is either, but
Karl Rove is a charter member of the *axis of evil* and therefore one of the most dangerous men on earth (along with dubya, rumsfield, cheney, etc.)

My fondest desire is that they all get the worst case of incurable crabs the world has ever known, right along with a dose of the clap and chronic, unremitting insomnia. and maybe hangnails.
ms wilson
Ms Wilson is Valerie Plame, a CIA operative who was outed by Karl Rove. 
Long live Wilson
Give me a man who has had too many wives and did too many drugs rather than a man who has drank too many alcoholic drinks and snorted too much cocaine and sent us to an immoral illegal war based on lies and has killed almost 2,000 brave soldiers based on that lie and tens of thousand innocent Iraqs and injured mentally and physically thousand of Americans, stated he was a uniter not a divider but has divided this country in two and reduced our credibility and respect around the world and caused the biggest deficit America has ever had..yes, give me Joseph Wilson, a true American patriot, anyday..
Wilson gives speech in conservative Bakersfield

 


Bakersfield is a very conservative oil town. 









John Harte / The Californian


Former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson speaks to an overflow crowd at CSUB Thursday night.



Critic of Bush earns support

Packed house at CSUB hears ex-envoy who disputed Iraqi war data

By CHRISTINA SOSA, Californian staff writer
e-mail: csosa@bakersfield.com


Posted: Thursday October 20th, 2005, 11:45 PM
Last Updated: Friday October 21st, 2005, 7:52 AM

The audience overflowed the overflow room at Cal State Bakersfield's Doré Theatre on Thursday night and people had to settle for standing in the hall to hear former U.S. ambassador to Iraq Joseph Wilson speak.



 

Starlene Parson was one of more than 600 people who attended the free event, which was part of the Kegley Institute of Ethics' lecture series.


It was interesting that the audience was supportive of him, Parson said.

Even Wilson thought his visit to such a conservative town might be more problematic than the welcome reception he received.

I figured that if I was going to get a pie in the face, this would be the town, Wilson joked.

After a career of working with Republican Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, Wilson wrote an op-ed piece in The New York Times in July 2003 disputing information current President Bush used to justify a war in Iraq.

I had a civic duty, and that civic duty was to call my government to account for what my government had said and done, Wilson said Thursday.

Days after Wilson's article, columnist Robert Novak revealed that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, was a CIA agent. The revelation prompted a nearly two-year federal grand jury investigation because Plame's role with the CIA was classified, and it may have been illegal to disclose it.

He called ruining his wife's cover a tawdry, cheap, dirty political trick.

Wilson's speech delved into the details of his work during the first Iraq war in the early 1990s, his investigation in Niger and his personal fight with the Bush administration after he came forward.

Wilson also stressed that while he may find himself more a friend to the left than the right these days, he has never seen national security as a partisan issue.

The real implications in all this are to our country and our status and stature in the world, Wilson said. It is our national status that is at play here, not our partisan status.

Attendee Harriet Morris was struck by how calmly Wilson presented his information and point of view.

What I liked about him is he was kind of low-key. There wasn't any anger, Morris said. There wasn't any angry rhetoric. He just kind of told the story, and the story is scary.

Before opening the floor to questions, Wilson ended his prepared speech with a call for vigilance from all Americans.

If you lay back ... and you allow others to make your decisions for you, then the chances are pretty good that you will find you have lost your republic, Wilson said.


didn't Gretchen Wilson perform there?
nm
IMHO, Wilson discredits himself, if one takes a look at the facts.
x
rove

So, Karl Rove is the one who outed Ms. Wilson.  He should be put in prison for years or better yet, let the people have him, let us tar and feather him..Definitely he needs to be brought up on charges.


Rove

Some of these people could actually witness Rove with a gun in his hand SHOOTING this lady and still defend his actions.  Their president can do no wrong, and whatever you do, do NOT confuse them with FACTS.  They are a scary bunch.


Rove
Rove's Role
    The Boston Globe

    Sunday 28 August 2005


    















Negative attacks have often been at the center of Karl Rove’s strategies.
(Photo: Reuters)
Some White House sympathizers have attempted to portray Karl Rove's role in the Valerie Plame scandal as that of a statesman, seeking to provide President Bush with the best information possible on Saddam Hussein's nuclear ambitions so that Bush could set policy based on facts. This has been met with deserved skepticism. Rove's career, even before he became Bush's deputy chief of staff, is rich with reasons to think his motives in helping to identify Plame as a CIA agent were far darker.


    After all, Plame's identity was revealed in a Robert Novak column on July 14, 2003, just eight days after her husband, Joseph Wilson, had embarrassed Bush over his Iraq war rationale. And Rove had talked with Novak on July 9.


    As John Roberts, the Supreme Court nominee and federal appeals court judge, wrote last month in another context, the fact that sometimes dogs do eat homework is no reason to ignore more-logical explanations.


    Rove's record has been consistent. Over 35 years, he has been a master of dirty tricks, divisiveness, innuendo, manipulation, character assassination, and roiling partisanship.


    He started early. In 1970, when he was 19 and active as a college Republican -- though he didn't graduate from college -- Rove pretended to volunteer for a Democratic candidate in Illinois, stole some campaign stationery, and used it to disrupt a campaign event. Later, in Texas, he gave testimony in court that was embarrassing to an opponent of one of Rove's clients, even though it was not true, according to the book Bush's Brain, by two veteran Texas newsmen, James Moore and Wayne Slater.


    Negative attacks have often been the center of Rove's strategies. In a race between Texas Governor Mark White and his Republican opponent, Bill Clements, Rove wrote in a memo: Anti-White messages are more important than positive Clements messages.


    Often Rove has skated on the edge of being identified with certainty as the author of dirty tricks. In 1986, the discovery of a planted listening device in Rove's own office was widely publicized, damaging the Democrats. Many suspect that the source was Rove himself. This was never proven, but Moore and Slater say, Karl Rove remains a prime suspect. In 1989, Texas populist Jim Hightower was damaged by grand jury leaks for which, Moore and Slater say, Rove remains the most likely source.


    Again, most of the personal slurs against candidates who had the temerity to run against Rove's clients have not been pinned on Rove personally, but they follow a pattern. George W. Bush ousted Ann Richards from the Texas governor's office in 1994 after a whisper campaign focused on a small number of Richards appointees who were lesbians and even suggested that Richards was gay. Bush himself stoked the fire, saying some Richards appointees had agendas that may have been personal in nature.


    In 1990, Hightower's integrity was smeared. A federal investigation of his expenses produced news stories, but no charge, despite Rove's telling Washington reporters that Hightower and several aides face the possibility of indictment.


    In South Carolina in 2000, rumors circulated that John McCain was gay, had a black child, had a Vietnamese child, and got special treatment while a POW in Vietnam. In 2004, a direct link was established between the Bush campaign -- of which Rove was the architect, in Bush's words -- and the libels against John Kerry from the swift boat veterans. With such a history, is it possible that Rove encouraged the Catholic bishops who questioned Kerry's fitness to take Communion?


    Earlier this year, he none-too-subtly bestrode the church-state amalgam that helped elect Bush, telling a sympathetic and enthusiastic audience in Washington that conservatism is the dominant political creed in America. Always on the attack, Rove said just this June that liberals want to prepare indictments and offer therapy to terrorists.


    According to Moore and Slater, the strategy of attack has been constant throughout his career. Rove didn't just want to win; he wanted the opponents destroyed.


    Rove's connection to the Valerie Plame story was the center of attention in mid-July but cooled fast after Bush nominated Roberts to the Supreme Court on July 19. A LexisNexis search reveals 1,944 stories mentioning Rove in the week prior to the nomination, dropping to 1,111 during the week after. Now, with Bush in Crawford for a prolonged vacation, the story has nearly disappeared -- only 169 references in a late-August week.


    Still, more is likely to come out after Labor Day. A special prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, is expected to finish his two-year investigation this fall. His goal was to find the person who leaked Plame's identity as an undercover CIA agent -- a serious offense in the view of Bush's father. He and many other commentators have deplored the idea that the leaker may have been seeking political retribution at the expense of national security.


    So attention will inevitably turn back again to Karl Rove, who did talk with Novak and other reporters who wrote the story but who is now being portrayed by some as a neutral researcher in the Valerie Plame case. Yes, and sometimes dogs do eat homework.


Rove
It's not Bush who's frightening, it's his brain, Carl Rove.
Rove gets Bush out of everything!
He got his training as a political operative in the GOP in the Nixon era. He was an accomplished ratf****r.
I think it was Karl Rove
...who just recently stood up in front of the nation and did the broadest stroking of all concerning conservatives and liberals, didn't he? When you have a Republican President whose #1 spokesperson sees fit to denigrate, insult and impugn the integrity and Americanism of ALL liberals (and what the heck is his job title anyway?) - I don't think liberals are going to waste much more time and patience being too touchy-feely about watching their generalizations concerning conservatives. Of course I'm speaking for myself - but if you can give me a good reason why we should put up with that kind of official pig squeeze and be nice about it too, let me know.

Otherwise I like your post, LOL - it is good to be reminded now and then that there are indeed many shades of gray and not everyone feels the same about every issue, even within a loosely coordinated group. This is very true. Happily this becomes very apparent when people take the time to communicate with others one-on-one and really make an effort to stay civil and keep a feeling of good will.

Of course, after the picture of the Liberal Hunting License I saw today, proudly displayed on the back window of a 40-grand SUV next to an American flag decal - well I sort of lose that sense of humor about conservatives that I normally try to maintain. Maybe someone should hang around and try to communicate with that guy in a nice and civil way? How about you?
rove the jerk
ohmygawd! Rove did it? That's what came out of the information that journalist was forced to reveal? I didn't see that on the news -
If Rove is innocent
why didnt he come forward before now and state what actually went down?  Because of his silence, Judith Miller is in jail, Matthew Cooper was threatened with jail, thousands of tax dollars have been spent on a Grand Jury and a special prosecutor and now quite possibly a trial. 
The Rove issue

From the Christian Science monitor online-- an interesting commentary on the Rove issue. 


(I note per the Conservative board that Mr. Wilson is now being vilified.)








from the July 15, 2005 edition - http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0715/p09s02-cods.html


Rove leak is just part of larger scandal

By Daniel Schorr

WASHINGTON - Let me remind you that the underlying issue in the Karl Rove controversy is not a leak, but a war and how America was misled into that war.


In 2002 President Bush, having decided to invade Iraq, was casting about for a casus belli. The weapons of mass destruction theme was not yielding very much until a dubious Italian intelligence report, based partly on forged documents (it later turned out), provided reason to speculate that Iraq might be trying to buy so-called yellowcake uranium from the African country of Niger. It did not seem to matter that the CIA advised that the Italian information was "fragmentary and lacked detail."


Prodded by Vice President Dick Cheney and in the hope of getting more conclusive information, the CIA sent Joseph Wilson, an old Africa hand, to Niger to investigate. Mr. Wilson spent eight days talking to everyone in Niger possibly involved and came back to report no sign of an Iraqi bid for uranium and, anyway, Niger's uranium was committed to other countries for many years to come.


No news is bad news for an administration gearing up for war. Ignoring Wilson's report, Cheney talked on TV about Iraq's nuclear potential. And the president himself, in his 2003 State of the Union address no less, pronounced: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."


Wilson declined to maintain a discreet silence. He told various people that the president was at least mistaken, at most telling an untruth. Finally Wilson directly challenged the administration with a July 6, 2003 New York Times op-ed headlined, "What I didn't find in Africa," and making clear his belief that the president deliberately manipulated intelligence in order to justify an invasion.


One can imagine the fury in the White House. We now know from the e-mail traffic of Time's correspondent Matt Cooper that five days after the op-ed appeared, he advised his bureau chief of a supersecret conversation with Karl Rove who alerted him to the fact that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA and may have recommended him for the Niger assignment. Three days later, Bob Novak's column appeared giving Wilson's wife's name, Valerie Plame, and the fact she was an undercover CIA officer. Mr. Novak has yet to say, in public, whether Mr. Rove was his source. Enough is known to surmise that the leaks of Rove, or others deputized by him, amounted to retaliation against someone who had the temerity to challenge the president of the United States when he was striving to find some plausible reason for invading Iraq.


The role of Rove and associates added up to a small incident in a very large scandal - the effort to delude America into thinking it faced a threat dire enough to justify a war.


Daniel Schorr is the senior news analyst at National Public Radio.


Rove is going to come out of this smelling like a

Worried about Rove?

 


 Am worried about Roe v Wade, but not about Rove. He is not worry-worthy - way too much effort. I AM concerned that nothing will happen to any of them that are involved in Plamegate unless it is some third-string low-on-the-totem-pole flunkie who will be completely blindsided when he gets blamed/fired/arrested. This shadow administration is far more evolved than the Nixon guys. I predict nothing will happen to them but what is worse, we have been lied to so often for the last 4+ years that most of us  won't even care. They are going to do what they are going to do...the end.  Here in Florida we voted last election for smaller class sizes and not to build a bullet-train between Tampa and Orlando. Jeb just changed both of those things. We are building the train set up and class sizes stay the same. I wonder why we vote on these amendments at all. What difference does it make? And so it is with D.C. It has not mattered for so long what a great number of us have felt about Iraq and all the lies surrounding it. They just do what they want. And before anyone says "we elected him" as a plausible argument, 51% is not a mandate. One half of this country is on the other side. Our country does not deserve the autocratic theocratic government that has been forced upon us.  When the shoe is inevitably on the other foot I suspect you won't like it either.


key Rove (RIP) strategy

Attack your opponents strong points.  Read many posts below that ham-handedly attempt to use this tactic.  Throw in a cup of "sour grapes" and NOW your cookin'.  Go Ron Paul!  Split the vote!


 


 


 


McCain and Rove
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121993561392479859.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Rove and McCain

for those too busy posting inaccurate opinions to look things up.


 









Mehlman, Rove boost McCain campaign
By: David Paul Kuhn
March 8, 2008 11:33 AM EST


John McCain is getting much more than President Bush's endorsement and fundraising help for his campaign. He’s getting Bush's staff.

It’s no secret that Steve Schmidt, Bush’s attack dog in the 2004 election, and Mark McKinnon, the president’s media strategist, are performing similar functions for McCain now.

But other big-name Bushies are lining up to boost McCain, too.

Ken Mehlman, who ran Bush’s 2004 campaign, is now serving as an unpaid, outside adviser to the Arizona Republican. Karl Rove, the president’s top political hand since his Texas days, recently gave money to McCain and soon after had a private conversation with the senator. A top McCain adviser said both Mehlman and Rove are now informally advising the campaign. Rove refused to detail his conversation with McCain.

The list could grow longer. Dan Bartlett, formerly a top aide in the Bush White House, and Sara Taylor, the erstwhile Bush political adviser, said they are eager to provide any assistance and advice possible to McCain.

Rove explained that he and McCain “got to know each other during the 2004 campaign.” In a separate interview, Mehlman noted that “McCain was completely loyal to the president in 2004 and worked incredibly hard to help him get elected.” According to Taylor, “The Bush Republicans here in town are excited for John McCain.”



 


 


 


Rove in politics
I think above all else Rove is loyal to the Republian party, above any particular candidate. I don't think McCain was his choice, but that won't stop him from trying to get him elected now that he is the nominee.

Now, say what you will about Rove. I personally think he is despicable, but the man knows politics and voting trends. He said McCain needed to pick Romney as VP to win, so it will be interesting to see whether or not that prediction was right (inferring that not picking Romney means not winning).
Fox said Karl Rove was

working furiously with a ventiloquist as late as yesterday afternoon.


 


Today's latest on Rove

WASHINGTON - The White House is suddenly facing damaging evidence that it misled the public by insisting for two years that presidential adviser Karl Rove wasn't involved in leaking the identity of a female CIA officer. President Bush, at an Oval Office photo opportunity Tuesday, was asked directly whether he would fire Rove -- in keeping with a pledge in June, 2004, to dismiss any leakers in the case. The president did not respond. For the second day, White House press secretary Scott McClellan refused to answer questions about Rove.


_______________


This article says that the White House may have misled the public.  And, they apparently pledged to fire anyone who had leaked this information.  This has become interesting, hope it doesn't fade right away from the public view.


Rowe, Rove, only one letter

difference, and both words represent betrayal by government in one form or another. 


Women who believe in choice will see their rights digress and witness history go backwards.  CIA agents have already seen that they can't trust their government in a time of war.


Actually, Karl Rove has a very important job.  Because of him and the heat the administration has been taking because of his actions, Bush was forced to actually do his job and nominate a replacement for Justice O'Connor.  Very, very "hard work" before he spends the entire month of August in Crawford.


I think soon, though, y'all will see it didn't work.  Rove can't escape the heat that easily.  I believe you will find that Bush failed in getting the heat taken off of Rove, and he had to rush to do all that "hard work" for no reason at all!


What is sad is the reinvention of pub/Rove campaign...
nm
Better yet vote for Karl Rove nm
nm
Carl Rove has testicles
the size of peanuts. I wish he'd get a real job.
MC (master criminal) Rove........yep.......nm

x


Did anyone else see a headline/story this morning about Rove?

I saw it briefly this morning and then it disappeared.  It said that Rove himself found out about Plame's undercover status from Novak, not the other way around!  The article made it sound like this affair was resolved, Rove was the good guy that we all know him to be, ha-ha. 


Well, I suppose I can just wait to see if it reappears.  Seemed surprising, but stranger things have happened.


I checked that "other" board to see if they were crowing about it yet but na-da, nothing so far.  Maybe I misinterpreted it.


Karl Rove, Bill O'Reilly, et al. sm

Hilariously shows how the hipocrasy knows no bounds: 


http://www.indecision2008.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086


This above is a link to the Daily Show with John Stewart.  I love his show, and Stephen Colbert's.  I'm not a political junkie (yet) so I need a *lot* of comic relief with my politics in order to stomach it. 


Both sides are hypocrites, it's true.  But I swear, the Republicans are so much funnier.  The mental gymnastics they're having to go through in order to claim SP has "experience" alone is a sight to see.  (Watch the clip above if you don't believe me.  Oh, and you can see S. Palin making a good point near the end of it for all of you who are fans of hers.)  In fact, Jon Stewart said he's putting "county first" in supporting Obama, because McCain being the pres. would make his job (as a comedian) so much easier...


Oh, and have no fear, anyone.  I balance out the political comedy with a healthy dose of serious political coverage too.  The most serious I can find lately is the stuff on PBS.  You know, the calm, old-style journalism type, free of the crawl at the bottom of the screen, free of all the hype and wild graphics at the bottom of the screen, free of people shouting because they actually take turns letting each other talk.  Anybody else miss that kind of reporting, where it's kinda boring to watch and you have to actually listen and pay attention to more than sound bites?  Ah, well.  I'm rambling...


Karl Rove -- why isn't this moron in jail yet? (sm)

Yep, he has refused to show for yet another subpoena, this time because Bush seemingly wrote a letter 4 days before leaving office saying he didn't have to show up?  Give me a break!  This guy is such a crook and needs to be put under the jail.  I hope they fry him.  I wonder what would happen to any of us who refused to show up for a subpoena.....about 3 or 4 times, that is.


http://www.newsweek.com/id/182240/?gt1=43002


angry?
Anger, me?  Not at all.  Firm in my beliefs, you bet.  Thinking the necon dinosaurs are fools, you bet.  Attacking neocons, not unless they attack me.  I give as good as I get. 
she does seem angry.....
x
What are you so angry about
WHAT is their fault?  What exactly has happened so far?  Or are you just talking about what COULD happen or MIGHT happen because we are trying to fix the economy?  Obama is doing what he said and YES it is our patriotic duty to get this country back on track.  You want to yell and scream because that is your right to have a voice.  You want to vote because it is your right to choose who is in charge.  BUT, you don't want to help when the going gets tough?  What?  It's no longer your business or responsiblity?  HA!   It's kinda like marriage, in sickness and in health.  We are ill right now.....stick it out and ride out the storm. 
What I am angry about
Being labeled horrible names because I am not a democrat. I'm neither a republican either. You say "we" are trying to fix the economy. Are you in congress doing anything about it. No, I'm sorry but you talk as though you are right their with the congress trying to "fix" things. I'm mad that people are blaming every single thing on republicans, when we've had a democratic congress the past two years. I'm angry that nobody is saying squat about B. Franks, H. Reid, N. Pelosi and others who have gotten us into this mess (along with B. Clinton forcing banks to give loans to people who couldn't afford it). Democrats and republicans have both been at fault for what has happened. But I'm sick and tired (and please no wise-@ss remarks) of people blaming every single thing on only republicans and that the democrats are absolutely perfect and have never done anything wrong. And you blatently misstated what I said. I said I'm tired of being told "it's my patriotic duty to pay more taxes". I didn't say anything about getting the country back on track. It would be nice if your trying to make a point to at least repeat what I said. I never said I don't want to help. What I said was I don't want to have to put my bills and food and other items I need on credit so that way the gvt can take more money from me and give it to the illegals who are perfectly able to earn money themselves but they prefer not to because the democrats have offered them a free ride.

I'm barely surviving here. I'm sinking fast. I don't do squat here except work. I'm sticking it out. But don't sit there and blame every single republican while you excuse every single democrat for the poor behavior and decisions they make.


Isn't Fitzgerald's grand injury investigation into Rove, et al.

about to come to an end soon?


I think October is going to be a very interesting month.


My bet is Delay will be found innocent and Rove is old news.
Besides, last time I check we had a system of balances in this country.  The time and the law will prevail, I have no doubt.
Scotty also slipped up and admitted Rove and Abramoff
...have known each other for 30 years. Sounds really cozy! This whole Abramoff thing is just a dodge - this guy has been all over the world, very busy and the tendrils go very deep. He happened to be in Italy at the time that the bogus yellowcake report was issued to the White House. He was instrumental in the whole Suncruz affair, arranging a source of non-taxable non-traceable income for political operatives. His pleading guilty now to some very minor charges keeps the rest of the offenses safely under wraps and hidden from further investigation. He'll do a few easy years in a posh hotel prison and then back to business as usual!

What I really wonder is, who's BEHIND this guy? Who's been financing him, assigning him, paying his travel expenses, telling him where to go and what to do?
EPA Rule Loosened After Oil Chief's Letter to Rove

Dirty politics equals dirty water.


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-rove13jun13,0,1520344,full.story?coll=la-home-headlines


From the Los Angeles Times


EPA Rule Loosened After Oil Chief's Letter to Rove


The White House says the executive's appeal had no role in changing a measure to protect groundwater. Critics call it a political payoff.


By Tom Hamburger and Peter Wallsten
Times Staff Writers

June 13, 2006

WASHINGTON — A rule designed by the Environmental Protection Agency to keep groundwater clean near oil drilling sites and other construction zones was loosened after White House officials rejected it amid complaints by energy companies that it was too restrictive and after a well-connected Texas oil executive appealed to White House senior advisor Karl Rove.

The new rule, which took effect Monday, came after years of intense industry pressure, including court battles and behind-the-scenes agency lobbying. But environmentalists vowed Monday that the fight was not over, distributing internal White House documents that they said portrayed the new rule as a political payoff to an industry long aligned with the Republican Party and President Bush.

In 2002, a Texas oilman and longtime Republican activist, Ernest Angelo, wrote a letter to Rove complaining that an early version of the rule was causing many in the oil industry to openly express doubt as to the merit of electing Republicans when we wind up with this type of stupidity.

Rove responded by forwarding the letter to top White House environmental advisors and scrawling a handwritten note directing an aide to talk to those advisors and get a response ASAP.

Rove later wrote to Angelo, assuring him that there was a keen awareness within the administration of addressing not only environmental issues but also the economic, energy and small business impacts of the rule.

Environmentalists pointed to the Rove correspondence as evidence that the Bush White House, more than others, has mixed politics with policy decisions that are traditionally left to scientists and career regulators. At the time, Rove oversaw the White House political office and was directing strategy for the 2002 midterm elections.

Angelo had been mayor of Midland, Texas, when Bush ran an oil firm there. He is also a longtime hunting partner of Rove's. The two men first worked together when Angelo managed Ronald Reagan's 1980 presidential campaign in Texas.

In an interview Monday, Angelo welcomed the new groundwater rule and said his letter might have made a difference in how it was written. But he waved off environmentalists' questions about Rove's involvement.

I'm sure that his forwarding my letter to people that were in charge of it might have had some impression on them, Angelo said. It seems to me that it was a totally proper thing to do. I can't see why anybody's upset about it, except of course that it was effective.

Asked why he wrote to Rove and not the Environmental Protection Agency or to some other official more directly associated with the matter, Angelo replied: Karl and I have been close friends for 25 years. So, why wouldn't I write to him? He's the guy I know best in the administration.

White House spokesmen said Monday that the rule was revised as part of the federal government's standard rule-making process. They said the EPA was simply directed by White House budget officials to make the rule comply with requirements laid out by Congress in a sweeping new energy law passed last year.

The issue has been a focus of lobbying by the oil and gas industry for years, ever since Clinton administration regulators first announced their intent to require special EPA permits for construction sites smaller than five acres, including oil and gas drilling sites, as a way to discourage water pollution.

Energy executives, who have long complained of being stifled by federal regulations limiting drilling and exploration, sought and received a delay in that permit requirement in 2003. Eventually, Congress granted a permanent exemption that was written into the 2005 energy legislation.

The EPA rule issued Monday adds fine print to that broad exception in ways that critics, including six members of the Senate, say exceeds what Congress intended.

For example, the new rule generally exempts sediment — pieces of dirt and other particles that can gum up otherwise clear streams — from regulations governing runoff that may flow from oil and gas production or construction sites.

Sen. James M. Jeffords (I-Vt.), who joined five Democrats in objecting to the rule, wrote in March that there was nothing in the energy law suggesting that such an exclusion of sediment had even entered the mind of any member of Congress as it considered the Energy Policy Act of 2005. Moreover, Jeffords wrote, the rule violated the intentions of Congress when it passed the Clean Water Act 19 years ago.

White House and administration officials disagreed.

At the EPA, Assistant Administrator Benjamin H. Grumbles said the rule responded directly to congressional action. He cited a letter from Sen. James M. Inhofe (R-Okla.), chairman of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, endorsing it. He added that the rule still allows states to regulate pollution, and that it continues to regulate sediment that contains toxic ingredients.

Lisa Miller, a spokeswoman for another senior lawmaker, Rep. Joe L. Barton (R-Texas), chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, said Monday that the rule was designed to hold oil companies accountable for putting toxic substances in the soil, but not for dirt that results from storms.

When it rains, storm water gets muddy, regardless of whether there's an oil well in the neighborhood, Miller said. Congress told EPA to do this, and now they have. If there's oil in the water, a producer has to clean it up. If it's nature, they don't.

The change in the rule occurred last year when staffers in the White House Office of Management and Budget began editing an early version drafted by EPA technical staff. The Office of Management and Budget oversees another division, the Office of Information and Regulatory Policy, which critics complain has served as a central hub in the Bush White House for making government regulations more business-friendly.

A spokesman for the White House budget office, Scott Milburn, said Monday that the White House's involvement in making rules was intended to ensure that agencies issue regulations that follow the law.

White House spokeswoman Dana Perino rejected the suggestion that Rove was involved in the rule change. Rove frequently receives requests, she said, and that he tries to reply and direct those requests to the appropriate people. She said that for environmentalists to accuse Rove of manipulating the EPA rule was a typical overreach by administration critics.

That is quite an overreach, when it was the United States Congress that passed the Energy Act in a bipartisan way to ask the EPA to undertake this rulemaking, she said.

In their March letter, Jeffords and his Democratic colleagues asked EPA officials whether the correspondence with Rove influenced the final rule.

A response written by Grumbles did not directly address the Rove question. But the Natural Resources Defense Council and other environmental groups assert that they know the answer.

We can't say that Karl Rove walked over to OMB and demanded these changes, said Sharon Buccino, director of the Natural Resources Defense Council's land program. But it is clear that there was direction coming from the top of the White House, and this was a result of the thinking of the White House as opposed to environmental experts at EPA.

Buccino called the rule yet another example of the Bush administration rewarding their friends in the oil and gas industry at the expense of the environment and the public's health.

In his letter to Rove, Angelo did not hide his political feelings. He thanked Rove for all you do, and added words of encouragement on another topic: The president has the opposition on the run on the Iraq issue.

His letter appeared to gain notice at the highest levels of the administration. Three months after Angelo sent it, a top EPA official wrote to tell him that the agency had decided to impose the temporary delay on the construction permitting rule for oil and gas companies.

The letter was copied to Rove, White House environmental advisor James L. Connaughton and then-EPA Administrator Christine Todd Whitman.


 


Yes, I would agree Rove is loyal to the Republican party...
he is still not one of my favorite people. And yes, he is brilliant as far as politics are concerned. Frankly, I think he said the stuff about Romney because he figured McCain would not pick him. I really never thought he would. They just don't fit, in my opinion. In a lot of ways, and if you are going to run this country with someone, basic ideas need to be the same. That is why the #1 most liberal senator and the #3 most liberal senator are running on the Dem ticket.

Of course, Rove is toeing the party line now and saying that Palin was a good pick, but still saying he thought it was going to be Romney. So we will see...all I can speak for is myself, but I would not have been nearly AS energized for a Romney pick as I am for Sarah Palin. I would still have supported McCain...but not as enthusiastically.
This make me so angry!

As Karl Rove himself said, Wilson's wife was "fair game."


I've said before that it's not only Valerie Plame who he endangered, but everyone who has worked with her during her work with WMDs.  We're in the middle of a WAR, but this "good ol' boy" administration doesn't care what they do or don't do in that respect.  They don't care whose lives they endanger.  They don't THANK these people for their service and for putting their lives in danger to try to make this country a better place. No, instead they see a man who has dared to disagree with King George, and they target his wife for potential danger, to get even with her husband for disagreeing with Almighty George Dumbya Bush.  They act like a redneck version of the Mafia. The CIA deserve more respect than this administration gives it, but this administration doesn't think much of respect.  Bush blatantly doesn't care who in the world respects us, and he offers no respect to anyone else in this world.  He is perfect, and he makes no mistakes, and if you don't believe me, just ask him or one of his aids or one of his flunkies on this board.  They'll all tell you how perfect he is.


I've seen Larry Johnson on different programs, and the views he expressed in this letter absolutely reflect what he said on TV.  How in the world could any CIA source trust the CIA to protect his or her identity when the president of this country makes it clear that everything is "fair" in this good ol' boy Mafia-type game played in Washington.


Rove definitely should have his security clearance yanked.  He clearly doesn't deserve it.  Neither does Bush.


Angry old bitty
and....I have always know you are an angry ancient old fart who needs to step back and leave the progressive positive moving forward community alone..Take your ancient backward ideas and stuff em where the sun does not shine..
Why are Americans so angry?

Why Are Americans So Angry?


by Ron Paul
by Ron Paul






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Before the U.S. House of Representatives, June 29, 2006


I have been involved in politics for over 30 years and have never seen the American people so angry. It’s not unusual to sense a modest amount of outrage, but it seems the anger today is unusually intense and quite possibly worse than ever. It’s not easily explained, but I have some thoughts on this matter. Generally, anger and frustration among people are related to economic conditions; bread and butter issues. Yet today, according to government statistics, things are going well. We have low unemployment, low inflation, more homeowners than ever before, and abundant leisure with abundant luxuries. Even the poor have cell phones, televisions, and computers. Public school is free, and anyone can get free medical care at any emergency room in the country. Almost all taxes are paid by the top 50% of income earners. The lower 50% pay essentially no income taxes, yet general dissatisfaction and anger are commonplace. The old slogan “It’s the economy, stupid,” just doesn’t seem to explain things.


Some say it’s the war, yet we’ve lived with war throughout the 20th century. The bigger they were the more we pulled together. And the current war, by comparison, has fewer American casualties than the rest. So it can’t just be the war itself.


People complain about corruption, but what’s new about government corruption? In the 19th century we had railroad scandals; in the 20th century we endured the Teapot Dome scandal, Watergate, Koreagate, and many others without too much anger and resentment. Yet today it seems anger is pervasive and worse than we’ve experienced in the past.


Could it be that war, vague yet persistent economic uncertainty, corruption, and the immigration problem all contribute to the anger we feel in America? Perhaps, but it’s almost as though people aren’t exactly sure why they are so uneasy. They only know that they’ve had it and aren’t going to put up with it anymore.


High gasoline prices make a lot of people angry, though there is little understanding of how deficits, inflation, and war in the Middle East all contribute to these higher prices.


Generally speaking, there are two controlling forces that determine the nature of government: the people’s concern for their economic self-interests; and the philosophy of those who hold positions of power and influence in any particular government. Under Soviet Communism the workers believed their economic best interests were being served, while a few dedicated theoreticians placed themselves in positions of power. Likewise, the intellectual leaders of the American Revolution were few, but rallied the colonists to risk all to overthrow a tyrannical king.


Since there’s never a perfect understanding between these two forces the people and the philosophical leaders and because the motivations of the intellectual leaders vary greatly, any transition from one system of government to another is unpredictable. The communist takeover by Lenin was violent and costly; the demise of communism and the acceptance of a relatively open system in the former Soviet Union occurred in a miraculous manner. Both systems had intellectual underpinnings.


In the United States over the last century we have witnessed the coming and going of various intellectual influences by proponents of the free market, Keynesian welfarism, varieties of socialism, and supply-side economics. In foreign policy we’ve seen a transition from the founder’s vision of non-intervention in the affairs of others to internationalism, unilateral nation building, and policing the world. We now have in place a policy, driven by determined neo-conservatives, to promote American “goodness” and democracy throughout the world by military force – with particular emphasis on remaking the Middle East.


We all know that ideas do have consequences. Bad ideas, even when supported naïvely by the people, will have bad results. Could it be the people sense, in a profound way, that the policies of recent decades are unworkable – and thus they have instinctively lost confidence in their government leaders? This certainly happened in the final years of the Soviet system. Though not fully understood, this sense of frustration may well be the source of anger we hear expressed on a daily basis by so many.


No matter how noble the motivations of political leaders are, when they achieve positions of power the power itself inevitably becomes their driving force. Government officials too often yield to the temptations and corrupting influences of power.


But there are many others who are not bashful about using government power to do “good.” They truly believe they can make the economy fair through a redistributive tax and spending system; make the people moral by regulating personal behavior and choices; and remake the world in our image using armies. They argue that the use of force to achieve good is legitimate and proper for government – always speaking of the noble goals while ignoring the inevitable failures and evils caused by coercion.


Not only do they justify government force, they believe they have a moral obligation to do so.


Once we concede government has this “legitimate” function and can be manipulated by a majority vote, the various special interests move in quickly. They gain control to direct government largesse for their own benefit. Too often it is corporate interests who learn how to manipulate every contract, regulation, and tax policy. Likewise, promoters of the “progressive” agenda, always hostile to property rights, compete for government power through safety, health, and environmental initiatives. Both groups resort to using government power – and abuse this power – in an effort to serve their narrow interests. In the meantime, constitutional limits on power and its mandate to protect liberty are totally forgotten.


Since the use of power to achieve political ends is accepted, pervasive, and ever expanding, popular support for various programs is achieved by creating fear. Sometimes the fear is concocted out of thin air, but usually it’s created by wildly exaggerating a problem or incident that does not warrant the proposed government “solution.” Often government caused the problem in the first place. The irony, of course, is that government action rarely solves any problem, but rather worsens existing problems or creates altogether new ones.


Fear is generated to garner popular support for the proposed government action, even when some liberty has to be sacrificed. This leads to a society that is systemically driven toward fear – fear that gives the monstrous government more and more authority and control over our lives and property.


Fear is constantly generated by politicians to rally the support of the people.


Environmentalists go back and forth, from warning about a coming ice age to arguing the grave dangers of global warming.


It is said that without an economic safety net – for everyone, from cradle to grave – people would starve and many would become homeless.


It is said that without government health care, the poor would not receive treatment. Medical care would be available only to the rich.


Without government insuring pensions, all private pensions would be threatened.


Without federal assistance, there would be no funds for public education, and the quality of our public schools would diminish – ignoring recent history to the contrary.


It is argued that without government surveillance of every American, even without search warrants, security cannot be achieved. The sacrifice of some liberty is required for security of our citizens, they claim.


We are constantly told that the next terrorist attack could come at any moment. Rather than questioning why we might be attacked, this atmosphere of fear instead prompts giving up liberty and privacy. 9/11 has been conveniently used to generate the fear necessary to expand both our foreign intervention and domestic surveillance.


Fear of nuclear power is used to assure shortages and highly expensive energy.


In all instances where fear is generated and used to expand government control, it’s safe to say the problems behind the fears were not caused by the free market economy, or too much privacy, or excessive liberty.


It’s easy to generate fear, fear that too often becomes excessive, unrealistic, and difficult to curb. This is important: It leads to even more demands for government action than the perpetrators of the fear actually anticipated.


Once people look to government to alleviate their fears and make them safe, expectations exceed reality. FEMA originally had a small role, but its current mission is to centrally manage every natural disaster that befalls us. This mission was exposed as a fraud during last year’s hurricanes; incompetence and corruption are now FEMA’s legacy. This generates anger among those who have to pay the bills, and among those who didn’t receive the handouts promised to them quickly enough.


Generating exaggerated fear to justify and promote attacks on private property is commonplace. It serves to inflame resentment between the producers in society and the so-called victims, whose demands grow exponentially.


The economic impossibility of this system guarantees that the harder government tries to satisfy the unlimited demands, the worse the problems become. We won’t be able to pay the bills forever, and eventually our ability to borrow and print new money must end. This dependency on government will guarantee anger when the money runs out. Today we’re still able to borrow and inflate, but budgets are getting tighter and people sense serious problems lurking in the future. This fear is legitimate. No easy solution to our fiscal problems is readily apparent, and this ignites anger and apprehension.


Disenchantment is directed at the politicians and their false promises, made in order to secure reelection and exert power that so many of them enjoy.


It is, however, in foreign affairs that governments have most abused fear to generate support for an agenda that under normal circumstances would have been rejected. For decades our administrations have targeted one supposed “Hitler” after another to gain support for military action against a particular country. Today we have three choices termed the axis of evil: Iran, Iraq or North Korea.


We recently witnessed how unfounded fear was generated concerning Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction to justify our first pre-emptive war. It is now universally known the fear was based on falsehoods. And yet the war goes on; the death and destruction continue.


This is not a new phenomenon. General Douglas MacArthur understood the political use of fear when he made this famous statement:



“Always there has been some terrible evil at home or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up if we did not blindly rally behind it.”


We should be ever vigilant when we hear the fear mongers preparing us for the next military conflict our young men and women will be expected to fight. We’re being told of the great danger posed by Ahmadinejad in Iran and Kim Jung Il in North Korea. Even Russia and China bashing is in vogue again. And we’re still not able to trade with or travel to Cuba. A constant enemy is required to expand the state. More and more news stories blame Iran for the bad results in Iraq. Does this mean Iran is next on the hit list?


The world is much too dangerous, we’re told, and therefore we must be prepared to fight at a moment’s notice regardless of the cost. If the public could not be manipulated by politicians’ efforts to instill needless fear, fewer wars would be fought and far fewer lives would be lost.



Fear and Anger over Iraq


Though the American people are fed up for a lot of legitimate reasons, almost all polls show the mess in Iraq leads the list of why the anger is so intense.


Short wars, with well-defined victories, are tolerated by the American people even when they are misled as to the reasons for the war. Wars entered into without a proper declaration tend to be politically motivated and not for national security reasons. These wars, by their very nature, are prolonged, costly, and usually require a new administration to finally end them. This certainly was true with the Korean and Vietnam wars. The lack of a quick military success, the loss of life and limb, and the huge economic costs of lengthy wars precipitate anger. This is overwhelmingly true when the war propaganda that stirred up illegitimate fears is exposed as a fraud. Most soon come to realize the promise of guns and butter is an illusion. They come to understand that inflation, a weak economy, and a prolonged war without real success are the reality.


The anger over the Iraq war is multifaceted. Some are angry believing they were lied to in order to gain their support at the beginning. Others are angry that the forty billion dollars we spend every year on intelligence gathering failed to provide good information. Proponents of the war too often are unable to admit the truth. They become frustrated with the progress of the war and then turn on those wanting to change course, angrily denouncing them as unpatriotic and un-American.


Those accused are quick to respond to the insulting charges made by those who want to fight on forever without regard to casualties. Proponents of the war do not hesitate to challenge the manhood of war critics, accusing them of wanting to cut and run. Some war supporters ducked military service themselves while others fought and died, only adding to the anger of those who have seen battle up close and question our campaign in Iraq.


When people see a $600 million embassy being built in Baghdad, while funding for services here in the United States is hard to obtain, they become angry. They can’t understand why the money is being spent, especially when they are told by our government that we have no intention of remaining permanently in Iraq.


The bickering and anger will not subside soon, since victory in Iraq is not on the horizon and a change in policy is not likely to occur.


The neoconservative instigators of the war are angry at everyone: at the people who want to get out of Iraq; and especially at those prosecuting the war for not bombing more aggressively, sending more troops, and expanding the war into Iran.


As our country becomes poorer due to the cost of the war, anger surely will escalate. Some of it will be justified.


It seems bizarre that it’s so unthinkable to change course if the current policy is failing. Our leaders are like a physician who makes a wrong diagnosis and prescribes the wrong medicine, but because of his ego can’t tell the patient he made a mistake. Instead he hopes the patient will get better on his own. But instead of improving, the patient gets worse from the medication wrongly prescribed. This would be abhorrent behavior in medicine, but tragically it is commonplace in politics.


If the truth is admitted, it would appear that the lives lost and the money spent have been in vain. Instead, more casualties must be sustained to prove a false premise. If the truth is admitted, imagine the anger of all the families that already have suffered such a burden. That burden is softened when the families and the wounded are told their great sacrifice was worthy, and required to preserve our freedoms and our Constitution.


But no one is allowed to ask the obvious. How have the 2,500 plus deaths, and the 18,500 wounded, made us more free? What in the world does Iraq have to do with protecting our civil liberties here at home? What national security threat prompted American’s first pre-emptive war? How does our unilateral enforcement of UN resolutions enhance our freedoms?


These questions aren’t permitted. They are not politically correct. I agree that the truth hurts, and the questions are terribly hurtful to the families that have suffered so much. What a horrible thought it would be to find out the cause for which we fight is not quite so noble.


I don’t believe those who hide from the truth and refuse to face the reality of the war do so deliberately. The pain is too great. Deep down, psychologically, many are incapable of admitting such a costly and emotionally damaging error. They instead become even greater and more determined supporters of the failed policy.


I would concede that there are some – especially the die-hard neoconservatives, who believe it is our moral duty to spread American goodness through force and remake the Middle East – who neither suffer regrets nor are bothered by the casualties. They continue to argue for more war without remorse, as long as they themselves do not have to fight. Criticism is reserved for the wimps who want to “cut and run.”


Due to the psychological need to persist with the failed policy, the war proponents must remain in denial of many facts staring them in the face.


They refuse to accept that the real reason for our invasion and occupation of Iraq was not related to terrorism.


They deny that our military is weaker as a consequence of this war.


They won’t admit that our invasion has served the interests of Osama Bin Laden. They continue to blame our image problems around the world on a few bad apples.


They won’t admit that our invasion has served the interests of Iran’s radical regime.


The cost in lives lost and dollars spent is glossed over, and the deficit spirals up without concern.


They ridicule those who point out that our relationships with our allies have been significantly damaged.


We have provided a tremendous incentive for Russia and China, and others like Iran, to organize through the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. They entertain future challenges to our plans to dominate South East Asia, the Middle East, and all its oil.


Radicalizing the Middle East will in the long term jeopardize Israel’s security, and increase the odds of this war spreading.


War supporters cannot see that for every Iraqi killed, another family turns on us – regardless of who did the killing. We are and will continue to be blamed for every wrong done in Iraq: all deaths, illness, water problems, food shortages, and electricity outages.


As long as our political leaders persist in these denials, the war won’t end. The problem is that this is the source of the anger, because the American people are not in denial and want a change in policy.


Policy changes in wartime are difficult, for it is almost impossible for the administration to change course since so much emotional energy has been invested in the effort. That’s why Eisenhower ended the Korean War, and not Truman. That’s why Nixon ended the Vietnam War, and not LBJ. Even in the case of Vietnam the end was too slow and costly, as more then 30,000 military deaths came after Nixon’s election in 1968. It makes a lot more sense to avoid unnecessary wars than to overcome the politics involved in stopping them once started. I personally am convinced that many of our wars could be prevented by paying stricter attention to the method whereby our troops are committed to battle. I also am convinced that when Congress does not declare war, victory is unlikely.


The most important thing Congress can do to prevent needless and foolish wars is for every member to take seriously his or her oath to obey the Constitution. Wars should be entered into only after great deliberation and caution. Wars that are declared by Congress should reflect the support of the people, and the goal should be a quick and successful resolution.


Our undeclared wars over the past 65 years have dragged on without precise victories. We fight to spread American values, to enforce UN resolutions, and to slay supposed Hitlers. We forget that we once spread American values by persuasion and setting an example – not by bombs and preemptive invasions. Nowhere in the Constitution are we permitted to go to war on behalf of the United Nations at the sacrifice of our national sovereignty. We repeatedly use military force against former allies, thugs we helped empower – like Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden – even when they pose no danger to us.


The 2002 resolution allowing the president to decide when and if to invade Iraq is an embarrassment. The Constitution authorizes only Congress to declare war. Our refusal to declare war transferred power to the president illegally, without a constitutional amendment. Congress did this with a simple resolution, passed by majority vote. This means Congress reneged on its responsibility as a separate branch of government, and should be held accountable for the bad policy in Iraq that the majority of Americans are now upset about. Congress is every bit as much at fault as the president.


Constitutional questions aside, the American people should have demanded more answers from their government before they supported the invasion and occupation of a foreign country.


Some of the strongest supporters of the war declare that we are a Christian nation, yet use their religious beliefs to justify the war. They claim it is our Christian duty to remake the Middle East and attack the Muslim infidels. Evidently I have been reading from a different Bible. I remember something about “Blessed are the peacemakers.”


My beliefs aside, Christian teaching of nearly a thousand years reinforces the concept of “Just War Theory.” This Christian theory emphasizes six criteria needed to justify Christian participation in war. Briefly the six points are as follows:



  1. War should be fought only in self-defense;
  2. War should be undertaken only as a last resort;
  3. A decision to enter war should be made only by a legitimate authority;
  4. All military responses must be proportional to the threat;
  5. There must be a reasonable chance of success; and
  6. A public declaration notifying all parties concerned is required.

The war in Iraq fails to meet almost all of these requirements. This discrepancy has generated anger and division within the Christian community.


Some are angry because the war is being fought out of Christian duty, yet does not have uniform support from all Christians. Others are angry because they see Christianity as a religion as peace and forgiveness, not war and annihilation of enemies.


Constitutional and moral restraints on war should be strictly followed. It is understandable when kings, dictators, and tyrants take their people into war, since it serves their selfish interests – and those sent to fight have no say in the matter. It is more difficult to understand why democracies and democratic legislative bodies, which have a say over the issue of war, so readily submit to the executive branch of government. The determined effort of the authors of our Constitution to firmly place the power to declare war in the legislative branch has been ignored in the decades following WWII.


Many members have confided in me that they are quite comfortable with this arrangement. They flatly do not expect, in this modern age, to formally declare war ever again. Yet no one predicts there will be fewer wars fought. It is instead assumed they will be ordered by the executive branch or the United Nations – a rather sad commentary.


What about the practical arguments against war, since no one seems interested in exerting constitutional or moral restraints? Why do we continue to fight prolonged, political wars when the practical results are so bad? Our undeclared wars since 1945 have been very costly, to put it mildly. We have suffered over one hundred thousand military deaths, and even more serious casualties. Tens of thousands have suffered from serious war-related illnesses. Sadly, we as a nation express essentially no concern for the millions of civilian casualties in the countries where we fought.


The cost of war since 1945, and our military presence in over 100 countries, exceeds two trillion dollars in today’s dollars. The cost in higher taxes, debt, and persistent inflation is immeasurable. Likewise, the economic opportunities lost by diverting trillions of dollars into war is impossible to measure, but it is huge. Yet our presidents persist in picking fights with countries that pose no threat to us, refusing to participate in true diplomacy to resolve differences. Congress over the decades has never resisted the political pressures to send our troops abroad on missions that defy imagination.


When the people object to a new adventure, the propaganda machine goes into action to make sure critics are seen as unpatriotic Americans or even traitors.


The military-industrial complex we were warned about has been transformed into a military-media-industrial-government complex that is capable of silencing the dissenters and cheerleading for war. It’s only after years of failure that people are able to overcome the propaganda for war and pressure their representatives in Congress to stop the needless killing. Many times the economic costs of war stir people to demand an end. This time around the war might be brought to a halt by our actual inability to pay the bills due to a dollar crisis. A dollar crisis will make borrowing 2.5 billion dollars per day from foreign powers like China and Japan virtually impossible, at least at affordable interest rates.


That’s when we will be forced to reassess the spending spree, both at home and abroad.


The solution to this mess is not complicated; but the changes needed are nearly impossible for political reasons. Sound free market economics, sound money, and a sensible foreign policy would all result from strict adherence to the Constitution. If the people desired it, and Congress was filled with responsible members, a smooth although challenging transition could be achieved. Since this is unlikely, we can only hope that the rule of law and the goal of liberty can be reestablished without chaos.


We must move quickly toward a more traditional American foreign policy of peace, friendship, and trade with all nations; entangling alliances with none. We must reject the notion that we can or should make the world safe for democracy. We must forget about being the world’s policeman. We should disengage from the unworkable and unforgiving task of nation building. We must reject the notion that our military should be used to protect natural resources, private investments, or serve the interest of any foreign government or the United Nations. Our military should be designed for one purpose: defending our national security. It’s time to come home now, before financial conditions or military weakness dictates it.


The major obstacle to a sensible foreign policy is the fiction about what patriotism means. Today patriotism has come to mean blind support for the government and its policies. In earlier times patriotism meant having the willingness and courage to challenge government policies regardless of popular perceptions.


Today we constantly hear innuendos and direct insults aimed at those who dare to challenge current foreign policy, no matter how flawed that policy may be. I would suggest it takes more courage to admit the truth, to admit mistakes, than to attack others as unpatriotic for disagreeing with the war in Iraq.


Remember, the original American patriots challenged the abuses of King George, and wrote and carried out the Declaration of Independence.


Yes Mr. Speaker, there is a lot of anger in this country. Much of it is justified; some of it is totally unnecessary and misdirected. The only thing that can lessen this anger is an informed public, a better understanding of economic principles, a rejection of foreign intervention, and a strict adherence to the constitutional rule of law. This will be difficult to achieve, but it’s not impossible and well worth the effort.





July 1, 2006













Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.


What I understand is that your are angry.
I feel your pain for lives lost. I have my own brother whohas served 4 tours and a brother-in-law has served 3 tours so far. Fortunately, we still have them, but they will never be the same. And they will be the first ones in line to protect these children if they can. But not all soldiers are built the same are they? Otherwise, there would be no war crimes.

I wonder if you would feel the same if they were your children in the camps? Reverse the scenario. You are dead, your husband is dead, your 12-year-old has turned into a rebel. Highly understandable how that could happen isn't it? How would you like your child to be regarded in such a fashion as your words of "educating them to be more than the animals that they are"?

I would rather be a bleeding heart than such a cold dead person where those words could ever be acceptable.
Not a bit angry....lol Thanks for the compliment, tho.
nm
bitter and angry
'Bitter and angry'... TRANSLATION:  As a black woman she is not subservient or meek, does not do the 'buck and shuffle' or says 'yes'm and give you teeth and gums to make her 'acceptable' or even tolerable.  Bitter and angry...seems as if you are the one with the bitterness and anger to make such a narrow minded bigoted comment about a black woman who happens to be married to a black man who has the GALL to run for the highest office in this land...(LOL)everyone says this election is not about race but that is a flat out lie.  Question:  if the two parties who were running for this office white, would there be such a fuss?  I think not. Truthfully, in past elections the majority of either party were caucasian and that particular issue was not an issue when we voted for whoever we believed could do the job to the best of their ability.  This election has shown that IT IS ABOUT RACE because it DEFINITELY was made an issue by the racist bigoted media, by individuals such as Pat Buchanan and Bill O'Reilly (who some truly believe is their Messiah).  God gave us free will when he created us, and one of the freedoms we were given was to think for ourselves.  I am a black woman and I will convey to everyone on this board that NO ONE thinks for ME, and because I AM black it is assumed that I will vote for Obama - if that is not bigoted I don't know what is.  I will tell you this though - one thing I have learned from this election is that racism in this country is alive and well and has reared its ugly head, and a lot of things that people feel in their hearts regarding minorities are NOT being hidden because the comfort level to say such ugly and bigoted racist things seems not to be a problem.  I have never seen such ugliness and hatred on this board as long as I have been participating.  It's past sad, it really is 
she 'seems' angry
Here we go again....when did she say she 'hated' this country?  And who are you to ASSUME what she is teaching her daughters?.  Looks like you have a case of 'i wish THOSE people stayed in their place' and 'who do THEY think they ARE?'although you don't have the guts to come out and say it.  Good thing  intelligent people know how to read between the lines of what you are saying.