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Chandra Levy's parents said the same thing. It's not about Aruba.

Posted By: My take. on 2005-07-05
In Reply to: blind... - eyetype

It's about the parents.  Be mad as hell if you want to.  Blame Aruba.  But do it quietly.  Because if the parents knew ANYTHING, they would catch the perpetrator.  They know nothing but just spout accusing everyone of illegal activity just as you do.  I do know Aruba and not everyone is related to everyone and there is a blend of nationalities just as Joran is Dutch and the two boys with him were obviously a different nationality.  To oversimplify the situation by calling everyone crooked and criminal in Aruba is insane.  Perhaps Natalee did some drunk swimming and everyone else in Aruba who has lived life nicely on this pleasant island and never killed anyone before are being falsely accused.  Consider that.


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    Same thing happens when we go to my parents' house
    All the judgmental "repent you sinner crap". Can't have a nice visit and just talk about something normal. Makes me nuts.
    Not all of us are parents. Not everyone had caring parents. nm,
    nm
    Aruba
    Yes, she is an American, but she is an American missing in a foreign country. Just as we have to abide by the rules of another country's government, when in that country, the same holds true here.
    There is an excellent team of volunteers from Texas in Aruba, the FBI also is on the island. I've heard on CNN that there have been cases of young,female tourist being kidnapped in Aruba, then shipped not to far to Venezuela, to be held to work as a prostitute.
    In that case, then we'd have to tell yet another government, that we followed the trail to your country and now our agents will be moving in
    We are the greatest nation on earth, but we do not have the right to just force our way into another country and demand they do things our way
    FBI in Aruba
    Do you have any clue as to how many born and bred American citizens, under the age of 21, many under 15, our precious children, who have been taken by their parent, who is of another nationality, kidnapped from their custodial parent and wisked away to a foreign country by the other parent?
    This usually occurs when the idiotic courts give visitation to said parent, knowing full well they are a flight risk, yet duh...."trust they won't do anything stupid"

    As of 6 months ago, there were 2138 children born in the US, American citizens, that have unwillingly been taken to a foreign country, leaving their custodial parent caught in this catch 22 of trying to get their child back

    The Hague Convention specifically prohibits this action, has rules to force the other country to return these children, yet the custodial parent is often left to hire Soldiers of Fortune to go in, stake out the country, living area, school where these children are, then they attempt to do what our country, the country that SHOULD be bringing these children home, fail to do! This should automatically be done, yet we have to try to argue "diplomatically" all the while these kids are kept from their parent the courts gave custody to. It's not cheap to hire a hit squad to get your kids back, it cost's thousands of dollars to do so.

    In my opinion, the USA/FBI/CIA/ SECRET SERVICE all should be concentrating on THESE innocent victims a bit more than a young 18 yr old that made a bad judgement.
    Where is the face time for the mothers or fathers of these children...the media won't give it to these kids, unless it is deemed worthwhile, and IMHP, each and every one of these children is worthwhile. It's just such an overwhelming thing to go through...I know, my nephew is somewhere in Saudi Arabia, growing up now for 3 yrs thinking his mother is dead or did not want him
    ARUBA CASE
    The parents had to known she was going to drink in Aruba. Why would these 17 and 18 years want to go of course to drink or they could have went to Florida instead. Even though this girl made bad judgement if she drank to much and went off with these guys this did not have to happen. We need to blame who ever did this. If my 18 year old wanted to go to Aruba I would probably say yes but lecture her a head of time. I know my 18 year probably drinks in college but I told her I don't want to know this. What I do not see I don't have to worry about it. I have no control of her when she is in college but she is not allowed to drink in our house or anyone elses until she is 21. I have a feeling that her body has been thrown in the ocean. The whole situation is so so sad.
    perhaps you should go to Aruba and help with the investigation (nm)

    Speaking of Aruba....
    You are EXACTLY right. Good post. We're both going to be crucified for this.
    Any thoughts on the case in Aruba?

    Little by little they are losing ground.  Commentator was saying that even if the last person to see her alive was Joran, the 17-year-old still in jail, they can't prove anything.  Maybe they fell asleep on the beach and when he woke she was gone.  Commentator said that if after all this time they could not break a 17-year-old and get a confession, with his two friends and father in jail, there is a possibility that he did not do it. 


    PS:  I think her mother should go home instead of second-guessing the government over there.  She is convinced the three are guilty with the father as an accomplice.  How do you come to that conclusion with sureness?  That's kind of like some foreigner over here coming over and if something were to happen to them and they disappeared after a night of drinking and last being seen with a stranger, his parents come over and criticize our legal system because we can't PROVE foul-play.  Just a bit over-the-top for a mother who should be grieving the loss of her daughter instead of criticizing the authorities.  Hey and another thing, how about criticizing the chaperones who lost contact with the daughter and did not discover she was missing till she failed to show up at the airport!!


     


    Missing girl in Aruba
    Here in the midwest, we recently had a "found college girl", seven years after she disappeared from Texas, and was presumed dead. Turns out, she and her parents had a huge blow-up over a boy, she took off, never to be heard of again....UNTIL, somehow, someone saw her picture in the very same Wal-Mart she had been working in for 5 yrs! She still did not want to talk to her folks, but they since have made small inroads into reuniting
    I was just in Aruba -very nice island

    Aruba is just like any other tourist destination where as long as you stay in the tourist areas, do not wonder off into the downtown areas at night and practice basic street-smarts, then there is no need for alarm and it is just as safe as any other place. I went to Aruba last month and we had a nice stay but I also went there years ago when I was about 16 w/my friend and her family. Of course we drank our little hearts out but we stayed in the hotel area and never wandered off. I will admit that we were harrassed by locals a bit (and I think it was because we were so young) but we ignored them and ALWAYS stayed together- we used our street smarts!!


    It sounds as tho this young girl did not have as much street smarts as you or I.  I would never  leave with guys I just met by myself even if I were at a bar in my hometown area, nevermind in another country! It is common sense but unfortunately this young girl didn't know any better, or for whatever reason maybe she thought that she was safe with these boys and she probably thought they were just regular kids just like her & her friends. It is very sad that she possibly had to pay the ultimate price for what she thought was just an innocent mistake.


    We as parents try to protect our children from so much, but at the same time, I think sometimes we are so focused on keeping the evil of the world out, that we possibly make our children more vulnerable.


    So you are educated in the laws of Aruba? Wow.
    I sound like I have lack of knowledge about this case, as does Mrs. Twitty.  So, I guess me and Mrs. Twitty should look to you for explanations and answers as to where her daughter is and what happened to her?  Do you have some inside info the rest of the world is not privy to?  I'm just wondering because if not, you are blowing a lot of hot air around and basically just about as uneducated about the laws and the evidence surrounding this case as the rest of us.
    Aruba is a foreign country. Their laws
    are different than U.S.  Father said "no body, no crime" because he knows in their system if they have no body, they have no crime. Therefore, they have to find a body...or they can't prosecute for murder.... Their laws, not ours.  That is what it is when you travel outside the country, you are under the foreign country's laws.. Really too bad but that is how it is.
    Aruba is not as well equipped to handle this situation (sm)

    as the U.S. is...so therefore, if they are in over their heads, THEY should ask for the U.S. to help, period! That is a resort country, equipped basically to show tourists a good time, and not to handle a missing American case! See my point?


    I don't know how you can take off for weeks at a time with all your close relatives and go to Aruba
    and not be wealthy.  Could you?  Indefinitely?  You and your husband?  And her husband said they may buy a house there if necessary because the mother is not going home w/o Natalee.  So assuming that resort island property is not cheap, they can afford to buy a house in Aruba?   Can you?
    Speaking of Aruba and Natalle Holloway from post below
    It looks like the Arubans are forming a protest of their own who are offended at Mrs. Twitty and the media reporting they are not conducting a proper investigation and their system is bad while America's system of law and order allowed the sex offenders kill children in Florida and Idaho.  The Aruban people have a point you know.  One news person interviewed protestors and a very literate gentleman suggested Mrs. Twitty was under Aruban law and she should respect that or go home.  In a short statement Mrs. Twitty seems to be backtracking after the protests after Mrs. Twitty stated the legal system allowed criminals (the two brothers) to go free and walk among its citizens and tourists.  It's about time these people speak out when Americans come over and criticize their government without a clue how it works or if it is working.
    Again, there are professional American search teams in Aruba.
    Nobody knows the terrain of the island better than the native Arubans.  Together with advice from the FBI, the search team from Texas and the hundreds of Arubans who do know the island they are doing what they can do.  They do not need the hysterical rants and accusations from Mrs. Twitty
    My parents use it
    I can't help you with the pre-exisiting conditions question, but my parents use AARP for all of their insurance needs. They saved a lot of money when they switched and have been very happy with them.
    I don't think that her parents did it, but I do think..sm

    that they are covering up for the person who did it (maybe the brother).


    To the poster that said the parents just let them go to
    party and drink was sad.
    My parents "spared the rod" and I'm now (sm)
    a self-sufficient, responsible, mature adult, furthering my education, handling my responsibilities, and not calling home begging my parents for money. So just because some parents "spare the rod" doesn't mean their kids are going to turn out to be spoiled little bloodsuckers the rest of their lives. There are other ways to discipline kids without spanking. Yes, some kids need a good spanking once in a while, IMHO, but there are other forms of discipline that are equally as effective. Just my opinion.
    Up to the parents, but they dont do it
    Hey, I feel like this, the parents have the only ones who have a right to spank or otherwise discipline kids
    I don't have issues with my parents are they are

    both deceased, but I have "disowned" all my brothers and sisters and nieces and nephews.  I grew up believing I was the black sheep of the family and maybe I am, but their lives are so screwed up and I never heard from them unless they needed something and there was lots of bitterness and anger about various events - mainly my parent's death.  The only way I was able to deal with the issues was to disown them.  I was not interested in making things better because they aren't willing to make an effort and I just don't have time for that. 


    My oldest sister hated my mom and was very ugly to her.  My mom did so much for her. All I heard was what a lowsy mother she was.  Well, my sister's daughter had a baby and gave it away, did drugs big time, drinking big time, has lived with several guys.  Her son is gay and can't hold a job, has had so many wrecks he has lost his license twice that I know of.  They just keep buying him vehicles very time he wrecks one.  He can barely make a move without having to ask mommy, is a druggie/drinker/liar.  Only my sister can't see all of this.   We all make mistakes and I don't claim to be a perfect parent, but.....


    My parents are retired and
    do very well on their savings. It's called preparation. People make their own choices. If you don't PREPARE and do not take RESPONSIBILITY, you will eventually be in such a sad situation. It's not anyone's fault but their own for making poor decisions or failing to make better ones.

    Morally, yes - I think other aid should become available to the "mom and pop" situation you are talking about but not reporting and paying taxes on income? No. That is wrong, period.

    My boys were taught to pay taxes on their incomes from various jobs. They paid taxes and they paid tithes on it, no matter what it was.

    It's called DOING THE RIGHT THING...which seems to be a forgotten concept among the older ones and a brand-spanking new concept among the young ones.

    Tax evasion, dear, is ANYONE who fails to report appropriately. They may spend the bulk of money going after big bucks tax evaders but the crime is still the same. It is dishonest and it cheats every loyal, law-abiding citizen.

    It doesn't matter if the job is easy or or not (i.e., your reference to house cleaning not being easy). THat has nothing to do with whether a person deserves to report/pay taxes on their income or not.
    I am a few miles away from there. SIL parents
    z
    Parents just had them done at $5000 an eye. nm
    s
    I never did think the parents did it. I'm glad they got him (nm)
    nm
    I think the parents should be held
    responsible. I'm sure the rules are less strict for older kids (he is 16). But it seems a waste of time for the teachers if he is going to only show up part of the every week. He seems to think it is funny that he has really, really bad grades. Seems he is just wasting a spot at school and the teacher's time.
    what a brave son (and parents)
    How old was he when he did that?  He earned every penny it sounds like.  You couldn't pay me enough to get that close to snakes (shudder). 
    My parents did it about 26 years ago - $20K then -sm
    that was a 25,000 gallon, cement with plaster in-ground pool with heater, 2 blowers and skimmers, a swimout (a seat in the deep end), steps in shallow end, ladder in deep end with diving board, with a large cement patio area around the whole pool. Pool still in great shape though it does need to be replastered now (can see cement where it has worn thin). My dad just sold the house so its the new owner's issue now.
    Take a look at who their parents are. Where's the blame now? nm
    v
    If not my kid, then the parents need to step up
    and take care of their own child. If I need to work, do not babysit period. I took care of my children when they were little and they can take care of theirs. No time to spare when working.
    My parents both worked and over the summer they LET us go to

    summer camp AND it wasn't cheap for them either.  Three kids going to camp 5 days a week (Thursdays were skate day), compare that to what that would cost today.  My brother, sister, and I were at camp from 8 AM to around 5 or so and yeah we were beat when we got home, but my folks made sure we weren't "latchkey" kids or running the neighborhood getting into who knows what kind of trouble.  My folks spent quality time with us, too, in the evenings, on weekends, holidays, and vacation, but they BOTH had to work to support us.  So, for the person who has unjustly persecuted CampMom, please try to be more considerate. 


    P.S. I should also add that my siblings and I have some of the best memories of summer camp.  Did I say that I'm 42 years old?


     


     


    For parents, what do you think of your kids' friends?

    I am wondering if it's ME or if it's my kids' friends that's the problem.  I just can't stand barely any of them.  We have little sailors running around cussing, compulsive liars, thieves, two-faced "unfriends", blackmailers, anger management problems, slobs, and perverts running around here.  And the violent and graphically disgusting games these kids try to play.  Is this everywhere?  Or am I just overly sensitive?  Parents can't choose their kids' friends because the kids'll rebel against the control, right?  I just feel like I can't have anyone over here because I'm constantly correcting them and cleaning up after them.  They don't listen worth a darn anyway.  I certainly don't want my kids to go to their houses if these kids behave this badly here.


    I tried going into details, but this post got so long.  I don't think it's our neighborhood either because we have to drive for playdates with some of these kids.  What, do we just attract the people with issues?  I try to tell myself that these are just kids or perhaps their home life isn't in line with the same value system as we have.  I try to be tolerant because some of these kids have had problems in their lives.  However, having problems is no excuse for bad behavior.  I'm no perfect prude and neither are my kids.  We've had our share of problems.  I also know I can't "shelter" my kids from the outisde world.  But geez, it's just ridiculous.  Whatever happened to the days when parents were parents and kids behaved?  Children should not be cussing, stealing and telling horrific stories of murder and incest.


    To give you an example, one of these little punks even told the whole neighborhood that my husband and I were druggies and dealers.  We found out about it when our elderly neighbor came over and told us.  We've always been totally against drugs, not even experimenting with them when we were teens.  Plus, we both have to go through yearly drug screening tests at work, too.  What is with the world today?


    To all you parents of student athletes - sm

    My son came to me today to tell me he is quitting football.  A sport he has played since he was in the 3rd grade.  He is now a junior in high school.   He is an awesome offensive linesman - scholarship bound this year with academics with it.  He has a 4.0 GPA, takes AP courses and could have a scholarship coming his way.


    Regardless of all of that, I am just heartbroken to see this young talented man just walk away from the game he once loved.  I have been crying all morning.  


    He tells me, "it just is not fun anymore. "   He does not want to play.  He wants to concentrate on his academics.  


    This is halfway through his camp, and games start next week.  He started on the varsity team as a Freshman.


    I am so upset, but I won't let him see it.  I do not want him to play a sport to please me or anyone else, but himself.  I have to hold all of this in and it is killing me.      This is his decision, and I have talked to him over the past few days about, trying to not let him know how disappointed I would be if he quit.  Well, today, he went to camp and told his coaches he is not playing, handed his equipment in, and so forth.


    Any advice from any of you parents out there for me as to how to handle it from a loving mother point of view!  I hide in the bathroom and cry so he doesn't see me.   For the simple reason, if he sees me crying, he will continue to play just for me.  I really don't want that.  He needs to play for himself.


    Needless to say, the coach called this morning after he handed in his equipment to talk to him.  I am sure there are more calls to come.  His teammates will be over this afternoon after camp, I am sure of it.  How do I handle this - better yet, how do I help him handle this? 


    P.S.  If he feels like he is letting his teammates down, he will give in and play just for them or for me -


     


     


    To all you parents of student athletes - sm
    This has happened to my daughter this year as well. Her reason was that her coach was a jerk and it wasn't fun anymore. She was a great fastpitch pitcher and he tried to change her mechanics and messed her all up. She didn't want to disrespect him by "telling on him" but it finally came out. When she was pitching it just wasn't her. She was not having any fun any more.

    I would suggest finding out "why it is not fun any more." Then if it turns out to be the coaches, find another team he can play on. That is what we did. HTH!

    Hope
    I do have a neighbor whose parents live
    in Houma.  She went down there to help them get their things in order.  I think she had to bring a generator.  I have not talked to her as of yet.  I will see her tomorrow and let you know.
    Go get to know the family and the boy, introduce yourself to the parents.
    That way you can get a feeling on the situation.
    No, parents don't usually sit there through football practices.
    Games, yes. Practice, no. Cut the apron strings already. The kid would probably get teased with Mommy on the bench every single day watching him practice. It's just not done when kids hit middle school and high school. Let the coach do his job without parental scrutiny.
    has anyone belonged to Parents Without Partners?
    I'm looking to join.  I'm 31, just wanted some opinions.
    One of the greatest gifts I have are my parents.
    My father is a very strong Christian man. He worked hard all our lives and provided a living well enough that allowed my mother to stay home with us.

    He took us to church, structured rules for us as teenagers, and loved us fiercely.

    As I grew up and got married, I found my husband to be completely incapable of providing for me as my father (and mother) did. While it left me confused for quite a while, I finally realized that no man was worth my time or energy unless he could take care of me as well as or better than my father did and that I do.

    I am shocked and hurt at the number of stories I hear from others everywhere about their lack of a wonderful family and childhood.

    Honestly, I feel like I am the most blessed person I know considering my family, my children, and where I am in life.

    My father gave me strength, discipline, a love for truth and self responsibility, and most importantly the key to knowing God.

    You imply people who don't are bad MTs or bad parents
    x
    there R plenty of states where parents....n/m
    @@
    My parents both worked for various grocery
    stores and my dad just retired from Safeway.  Neither of them have ever heard of tipping for taking groceries out to the car. 
    caring for elderly parents
    My dad died last year at age 89, my mom died last month at 92. My husband and I and our three kids moved in to my parents house 8 years ago to help my parents (I also have 3 siblings). We lived with my parents, and I cooked, cleaned, took them to doctors appointments, etc. My siblings did not do much, even living close by. It was a mistake, my mother said it was her house and not mine and Alzheimer was setting in on both parents. we ended up moving out as I was very unhappy as was my family. My parents health got worse, 24 hour nursing care, finally a nursing home for mother. They had to sell their house to pay for the nursing home because they did not trust anyone to have anything in their names and now everything goes to probate for the estate, which is now hardly anything. Anyone who has aging parents should contact an elder lawyer and know the laws of your state, have bank accounts put in sibling name or even lawyer's name. I really tried to take care of my mother and father but they were very stubborn, would not listen to anyone, took risks and fell etc, and it was not a good thing for anyone to watch. My siblings were all in charge of my parents care for the last four years and they realized what I had gone through. It is very difficult and you try to help but sometimes it does not work. Yes, I loved my parents and tried the best I could, but sometimes it just will not work with living with them as they get so set in their ways. I am a very easy going person. I just know that I will set up will and trusts, etc for my family
    I do, because they took care of me. If they were absentee parents, then I'd say no. nm
    x
    I did not work as a teen as my parents would not let me - sm
    I did look for work though and tried to get work locally (i.e. walk or ride bike) but there was not much around us and the 2 positions I tried for I did not get unfortunately. My mom refused to drive me anywhere (driven out by my 2 older brothers so I suffered), I bummed rides everywhere or rode my bike, but my 3 best friends either had a car or had one available to them so I got around okay, but was not allowed to work (only 1 of my friends worked but that was only because her father had a business he ran out of the house). So I tried to earn money where I could but it was few are far between, dog sitting, cutting neighbor's grass on a regular basis for $10 a pop every 2 weeks, the odd babysitting job (not a lot of little kids where I lived at the time), think I made about $25 a month in the summer months. I wish they had let me work while I was in school. I did work after I graduated though, my summer job (warehouse/front office gopher where my mom worked) before college was my supply money for college, and I work a few PT jobs during school as well, probably $50 a week but it helped. But YES teenagers should be allowed to work as long as their grades are good. We plan to have our 2 work at King's Dominion once they are old enough (only 14 miles away) for summer jobs, I might too, who knows!
    Parents: Are your kids spoiled? sm

    For instance, do they do chores that are age appropriate, do their own homework, get themselves up in the morning and ready for the day if they're older than say age 10?  Here's how it works in our house:


    6-year-old:  Responsible for cleaning her room, feeding her fish and bunny rabbit and her bathroom each week.  Puts dirty clothes into the hamper and puts up clean clothes except those that have to be hung, which we do since she's not tall enough.  Likes to mop the kitchen floor so we let her do that.  Does her own homework after I make sure she remembers the directions.


    15-year-old:  Has to clean her own room and bathroom - alternates the bathroom cleaning with the 6-year-old since they share a bathroom.   If she cooks anything that's not a meal for everyone she has to clean up after herself.    She's now learning to do laundry - my DH always took care of that for her in the past or her mom did, but  I've forced the issue that she can do her own laundry now that she's 15.   Also has to do her own homework without help from us.  For instance, while doing English she commonly asks for the meaning of a word.  I tell her to go to webster.com and look it up or grab the dictionary - which is how we learned as kids.   Also her dad (and bio-mom) used to help do her homework by looking up stuff and writing the answers which she'd re-write but that stopped while we were dating as I got him to realize that he wasn't helping her by doing this and she needed to do her own school work and not whine to get him to help.  She is also required to get herself up and out the door for school in the morning, on time, and knows that if she oversleeps and misses the bus because she's goofing off then she gets no PC or TV privileges for the day.  It only took her 1 time of missing the bus  to learn to get up on time. 


    What about your household? 


     


     


    More surprising is what the parents are letting them do. sm

    My daughter is in 6th grade.  There is a girl in her class who is ELEVEN years old.  Now keep the age in mind for a minute here.


    This 11-year-old girl has piercings in one eyebrow, one side of her nose, her bottom lip, her tongue AND her belly button.  Both ears are also pierced all the way around with about 12 studs in each ear.  She wears full makeup and tight, low slung jeans. She told my daughter that she is getting a tattoo for her 13th birthday.


    Sort of a "teenage right of passage" so to speak?  After all her parents have pretty much run out of things to give her permission to do.


    I've met the "parents" and it's obvious that the apple doesn't fall to far from the tree.


    Shall I suggest a uvula piercing for her big 13th?


    Parents with ADD/ADHD kids....sm

    Does your child's school work well with you on educating them or don't like having to give your child extra attention? 


    My 1st grader is having problems staying focused in class with her 24 peers in the room and being asked to stay on task for an hour at a time.  At home she does just fine when things are broken down into 15-20 minute intervals.   The 2 teachers she has don't want to spend extra time with her or eliminate distractions so I've now officially requested an IEP meeting to force this with them.  She had no problems at the same school last year in kindergarten because her teacher had worked with other kids like her in the past and was able to teach her on her level using the techniques recommended.  


    We met with her 2 teachers yesterday and they actually had the audacity to suggest that we work extensively with her at home on the areas she's struggling in.  I'm not home schooling this kid just because they don't want to help her stay focused when my taxpayer money is being paid to support the schools and federal laws require they meet her needs.


    Interestingly when I had a prior foster child that had ADD this very same school and teachers were very accommodating and worked very well with me on meeting her needs.  Not sure why her current teachers don't want to but we're going to have to work on that.


    What about you and your child?  Did you have to go to the extremes of getting an IEP and forcing them to do what they're required to do or did you get immediate cooperation?   I'm not going to put my child on ADD/ADHD medication just because they don't want to deal with it. 


    Exceptions to everything but majority parents
    x
    What about the apathetic attitude of parents
    x