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Only if that is coupled with a line definition of greater than 55 char.

Posted By: nm on 2006-02-21
In Reply to: Company not paying for spaces nm - MTbird


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What is a 55 char gross line compared to a 65-char line including spaces?
What's the diff between a gross line and a 65-char line?

Mebbe just got my first OWN ACCOUNT YAY!  He said to charge him the "going rate" since I pay him that.  This could be the start, baby!  (I hope)

Definition of a line can cause
10 cpl per 65 char line
I include all spaces, headers, footers, etc with a 24 hour TAT.
65 char line
while you are in a Word document, click on Tools from the bar at the top. Then click on word count. You will see characters (no spaces) and characters (with spaces). If you are paid by 65 characters with spaces, take that number and divide it by 65. Then take the result and multiply the result by .08 or .09 if you are paid 8 or 9 cents per line. That is the amount of money you made for that one letter.
7.5/gross line or 10/65 char line?
Anyone have any idea which would come out to more?  TIA
1385 by 65 char line.
65 char per line is not the same as gross?? sm
You said "Anyway go with gross line, I still quote it as 65 characters per line which it is but I count by gross and 12 font."

65 char per line is NOT the same as gross. How in the world do you come to the conclusion that it is? If it was the same, then the 65-char line would not even exist. Gross line count means that even a line containing only one word is counted as a whole line. 65-char. line means that a line must contain at least 65 characters (i.e., letters, numbers, or symbols) to be counted as a whole line.

Gross line does not equal 65-char. line and you are doing a huge disservice to your clients and to the other MTs asking for advice here by saying it is. Clients do sometimes check the line counts to see if they match (obviously yours don't so you have been lucky so far) and if you bill them at gross lines and they are counting at 65 chars per line, your line count will be quite a bit higher and it will look like you have been padding your line counts.

Please, do clarify how it is you feel a gorss line is the same as 65 char. per line. Also, font does make a difference when using gross lines but does not make a difference when using 65-char lines so again, your theory that you are switching fonts tells me you are, indeed, charging gross lines and yet are quoting clients at 65 chars a line.

Does anyone else think this is just a tad on the shady side ???
.11 cpl/60 char. line for hospital
account that I do from home and am also considered an employee.  They pay my insurance and also offer family insurance for 110.00 a month.  I also have another account for a brain and spine trauma center that pay me .13 cpl/65 char. line.
Here's the thing. We were paid on a 50-char line SM

because we were on new software and it was hard (before EDiX). Then we went to 60 char and you have never heard the screeching and griping (LOL. We just didn't know).

I have told this story before, but for five years I was the supervisor in the MT dept. All I did was evaluate MTs, line counts, average lines per hour, just endless figuring. I could tell you off the top of my head what any particular dictation should count out to.

In fact, after I decided to go back to transcribing, I knew the very day that my former employees started cheating - our line counts were posted by ssn on a computer-generated list. I knew that work like the back of my hand.

When EDiX did their spiel, I was eager to start with them because I knew how they supposedly counted their lines and I knew how many lines a day I could type. Man, I was gonna be RICH.

Not one line count EVER matched what it used to. Bad thing about that is, I just got blank silence on the telephone when I asked what was the deal. When I asked my immediate supervisors how they were counting these lines, I got "I don't know. I'll get back to you." Nobody ever answered my question. I gave them a year full time, and then I had to start working other jobs to make ends meet so I quit.

They asked me to come back, and I said I would, part time. They said they really needed me on that account. All told, I was employed there three times in three years. I never made enough money to even cover my basic expenses. I cannot live like that.

My biggest problem with nationals, and the reason I refuse to work for them, is that the money goes to the suits first, the MTs next. People who do what we do simply do not need that much supervision. If they hire newbies who do need extensive supervision (and they do, we all did), we all pay for it in that situation -- I'm not against hiring newbies, by the way, but the $ it takes to hold their hands the way the need their hands held should not come out of the pocket of the veteran MT who sits down and chugs out her work day in, day out.

So no more nationals for me. I make three times what I made at EDiX now, working for a company that could be considered a national because we're scattered out, but it's still run by the owner, and her aim in life is for us to make as much $$$ as possible because then SHE does. That's the way it should be.

National companies treat MT as a cost center and that is not right. That's for the facilities to do. The MTSO should treat us as an income-generating entity instead of a hole to divert money away from their executives. They've got it all wrong!

Gross versus 65 char line
Can someone tell me how a gross line is calculated. Thanks.
I charge by 65-char line with spaces...sm

The two accounts I've worked on wanted 0.5 inch margins on both sides.  One of the accounts wants 10-point Times.  The other wants 12-point Times.  They want the margins so big because they are trying to save on their paper costs, because the sticky back paper (I think that's what they use) is apparently quite expensive.  I send the documents via e-mail for them to print on their own.  Anyway, charging for a 65-character line with spaces nets me more than a gross line because of the margins, font, and typeface.  Try it with your line counter.  I have one built into my Instant Text (which I don't use for invoices) and SylCount.  Both of them show that the gross line is quite a bit less when the margins are this big. 


Why not charge for spaces?  You type 'em like you type a letter or number! 

10 cents/line 65 char. w/spaces,
Small company (about 7 of us, I'm the only part-timer) Acute care, mix of dictators, 1 year part-time experience.
65-char line to client and charge for gross? sm
That's a bit underhanded. If they ever get suspicious, your line counts are going to exceed what they count at 65 char. a line. You said yourself that 65-char/line and gross line are two different things, so why do you contract with the client saying you bill for one and actually bill for another ?? That's shady, IMO, and I would never quote my client a 65-char line and then charge them for gross line.
At 40 hours a week? Is that gross line or 65 char?
You'll never get an accurate comparison unless you have every single detail lining up, i.e., same rate per line, same amount of hours, same type of work, same doctors dictating, same amount of Expander entries, same typing speed, same method of payment, etc., etc.

It just doesn't matter what anyone here posts -- it's going to be different for each individual. There is no real true way to predict what you will make at this profession!
then they'll offer you 8 cents/ 65 char line. very sad nm
127 if based on 65-char line (8243 divided by 65 is the formula) nm
I quote a price per gross 65 char line, say 12 cpl, but then convert

I have one client who doesn't want bulk and is Franklin condensed 10; another is on Garamond 12 with a 1 inch margin R and L. I take a large block of type, put in a format that gives me 65 char per line and do a line count that way and get a price for the whole block, for example, 58 gross lines at 12 cpl = $6.96. Then I take the same type and format it as the client wishes, get a line count and divide the dollar amount by the lines. If their formatted version came to 28 lines, then 6.96 divided by 28, would come to 24 cpl for their format. I always include a line on the invoice to indicate their 65 char line rate. Something like

2586 extended lines at 0.24 cpl = $620.64

(your line rate converts to 0.12 cpl for standard 65 char line)

I always educate the client as to the industry standard of the 65 char line which allows clients to compare apples to apples...





I just re-read his email and he said he paid 9 cpl per 55-char line! Must be offshore. sm
I'm going to bring up the offshore issue with him and HIPPA issue as well.  My OB/GYN just switched over to that practice to do just GYN and specialize in urological gyn, so they have my records too and I sure don't want them overseas.  Even if they don't want to hire me, that's fine and I'm not going to sales pitch him at all, but I don't want my records outsourced.
Two companies, both 65 char lines including spaces, one pays 0.10/l and the other 8.5/gross line. n
U R confusing official definition of professional with "popular" definition...sm

the official definition is those jobs like physicians, PA's, NP's, law, etc. Not something you do for a long time or what your job is. The popular definition for profession is what you do. Same thing with vocation, a official definition would hold to calling, such as clergy or nuns or missionaries... popular would say what's your job. So depends if you are looking for the popular definitions vs. the official definitions, though I will say some very ignorant people posting on the topic...

Own accounts; 12 cpl 65 char and 17 cpl 65 char.
Accounts are on the West Coast.
greater than
greater than..sm
I usually remember it like this: This arrow < is the same as the capital letter "L" (kinda)which means less than. I know, it's a stretch, but it works for me....
Greater than.
Start reading from left, where it's wide open, means greater and where two lines are meeting at a narrow end means less than, common sense.
Greater Georgelandia.
brain freeze. > what does this arrow mean? greater than? less than?

As dictated, we may start urine replacement at 0.5 cc/mL for output greater than.....
8 CPL, 65-char w/ sp.
RTI, Inc./California (but I am in AZ as IC. Think I could do better.
I always said he was the very definition of

Unfortunately, our country and the world are the real losers while this failure holds his stolen office. 

Definition here
Mentor: A wise and trusted counselor or teacher.
BNP abbrv definition


IRS created the new SE definition and

then felt it was being abused.  They then noticed how large the MT industry was and decided that would be where they would focus their efforts to decide whether to keep the status or do away with it.  In order to find out that information, they had to start doing audits if the "SE" box on your W2 was marked.  I hired a tax person to help me but his efforts were fruitless.  One day after faxing back and forth and writing back and forth, I got on the phone and held for almost 5 hours until I got someone in the department created for consumer complaint resolution.  I was amazed to find myself talking to someone who was intelligent!  They saw what the problem was, saw that all the documentation was in place and negated all activity by clicking a few keys on his computer.  I had owed about $2000 that year but had already paid it as it was a retroactive audit, so I was lucky with how things worked out.

I was just wondering if anyone else had problems.  I've chosen to never again have SE status so as not to have lightening strike again!


0.775 (?? how they figure it) and 0.8 (65-char w/ sp)
Maybe you should look up the definition of sarcasm. nm
Depends on your definition (sm),
doesn't it?
definition of acquaintance....sm

  1. Knowledge of a person acquired by a relationship less intimate than friendship.
  2. A relationship based on such knowledge: struck up an acquaintance with our new neighbor.

  3. Someone you know.

from dictionary.com

The IRS definition of an employee is this:
Who Is an Independent Contractor?

A general rule is that the EO, as the payer, has the right to control or direct only the result of the work done by an independent contractor, and not the means and methods of accomplishing the result.

I'd suggest you get a consultation with an attorney, and be sure to file your response with EDD.
See definition inside.

From Webster's online dictionary:

A written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression b (1): a statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt (2): defamation of a person by written or representational means (3): the publication of blasphemous, treasonable, seditious, or obscene writings or pictures (4): the act, tort, or crime of publishing such a libel.

Based on the definition above...
I would come away from viewing that site with an unfavorable impression and unjustly so for the name of the company as well.

I think there's a good argument for libel there.
A 5-char word would be better....
I just counted an entire report that I had done earlier. It's typical of clinic reports that I type every day. No long medical terms, just the basics.

It probably isn't the most reliable way, but using MS Word Count, the report has 394 actual words, 2387 chars with spaces.

So, if you want to say a word is 5 chars:
Divide all the characters in the report (2387) by 5 (the number of chars per word).
Then divide by 8 (for the number of words per line).
This comes out to 59.67 5-char, 8-word lines.

Again, using MS Word Count:

To calculate a 65-char line:
There are 2387 actual chars in the report. Divide 65 into 2387.
*There are 36.72 65-char lines.

To calculate an 8-word line:
There are 394 actual words. Divide 394 by 8 (words per line).
*There are 49.25 8-word lines.

That's an easy way for her to do her line count for this company, as all she has to do is let MS count the actual words in her report, then divide by 8 to get her line count.

Pay for this report:
36.72 (65-char lines) at 0.08/line -- $2.88.
49.25 (8-word lines) at 0.08/line -- $3.94.

With the pay being 0.08/line, comparatively speaking, that still comes out to about one extra 8-word line (for every three 8-word lines she types) when comparing it line for line to the standard 65-char line.

At 0.08/line, a 5-char, 8-word line would be $4.77 for the same report. If the OP wants to go to the trouble of counting this way, she would do well.

She could probably also find a line counting program she could program to generate her bill and simplify everything.

Here's the definition I found: sm
"A ball of swallowed foreign material (usually hair or food) that becomes trapped in the stomach or the intestines."

That's on Google, and that's the way context in which the dictating physicians used that term on the reports I typed for 22 years. :)
This is the definition I found, it's
grosser than yours, eeewww!
How can you mention this, just like that??? Out of the blue?

Do you suffer from 'vocal tics?'

(n.) A calculous concretion found in the intestines of certain ruminant animals (as the wild goat, the gazelle, and the Peruvian llama) formerly regarded as an unfailing antidote for poison, and a certain remedy for eruptive, pestilential, or putrid diseases. Hence: Any antidote or panacea.

You need to look up the definition of synechiae....sm
It does refer to the eye, but also refers to any adhesions in the body, lung, uterus, vulva etc.
To SandyGirl: MDI pays 10-11 cpl 65 char., sm
Spheris pays 10 cpl + incentive.

FC pays 10 cpl and 11 cpl on weekends - IC status.

QT pays 9 cpl - gross line, IC status.

JLG pays 10 to 12 cpl 65 char.

As you can see, there are companies out there who will pay 10 to 12 cpl, albeit IC status mostly, but they are out there.

I hope this helps you find the right company that pays the "big bucks"!

Merry Christmas!
Small national definition
Would you define what you would perceive as a "small" national, and then maybe I could better have an idea how to respond to you with some ideas.
I'd count it too via 65-char just as you are doing the rest - sm
especially since you print it out, ink costs money, as does paper.
Depends on the company's definition.
At MQ, a medical Editor is a Transcriptionist who uses ASR (automated speech recognition) to get her job done; she literally edits the speech recognition product.

The QA Specialist handles the QA blanks the MTs or MEs send.

Gross lines vs. 65-char

A gross line is anything on a line IS a line - usually the standard is Courier 12, 1 inch margins - that way, if a doc wants Arial or Times New Roman or any other font, he will know that it will always be counted in Courier 12 regardless of the font he uses.


65-char means based on a 65-char per line basis, lines are counted, so it is not a "line" unless there are 65 characters on it - the counting programs that count this convert the document to one big long document without returns, etc., linking all the characters in one long line and counting them that way.  Clearly you can see how many fewer lines you would get by this method.  When this was brought into the business it was touted as a "fairer" way of counting - but the only one it is "fairer" to is the doctor - it cuts the lines vs gross lines an average of over 30% - for example, if you are making 7 cpl for a 65-char line, you are in reality making 4.8 cpl gross lines - quite a difference. 

Have you tried checking the IRS website for their definition?
If there's a standard anywhere, it should be based on that.