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I'm sure a lot of us knew a recession

Posted By: Marmann on 2008-11-21
In Reply to: So the stock market's down.... sm - m

was coming long before the "experts" knew it.  All they had to do was to be Americans who were trying to fill up their gas tanks, feed their families and try to hang on to their jobs.  I just read an article the other day where someone in the government finally admitted that we've been in a recession that they believe will last another 14 months.  (Can't remember who said it; will try to find the link.)  This is after months and months of denials, although most everday folks felt like they were in a recession long before hearing it "officially."


If they are only now admitting to a recession, that tells me that we're in the beginnings of a full-fledged DEPRESSION. 


Add terror threats, a war between Iran and Israel and the USA, perhaps provoking a terror attack (real or "false flag"), people becoming so poor in this country that their fear is replaced with anger, and voila!!  The US soldiers that are lying in wait for us to "misbehave" as tensions arise so they can keep us in line, just might have their work cut out for them...especially if we suffer another attack on our soil.


We've got crooks running the Treasury Department, all chosen from the same failing companies for which they worked. 


The Wall Street "crisis" came on so quickly and so urgently that nobody knew what to do.


Well, Bush knew what to do.  First, he hired Henry Paulson of Goldman Sachs fame, the company that received a $3 billion payout, who then went on to appoint Michael Alix to "oversee things."  This is the same Michael Alix who was in control of "overseeing things" at Bear Stearns (we remember how well that whole Bear Stearns thing worked out.)  Paulson then went on to appoint Neel Kashkari (another Goldman Sachs graduate).


Bush has selected these men, either personally or through Paulson, because he knows that THEY know how to play the system and accentuate the greed.  He hired people who aren't on America's side at all.  They're part of Bush's "Haves," and the rest of average Americans -- the "have nots" -- aren't even in the picture, except as it pertains to how much money has been stolen from our accounts.  Bush has always has been about greed.  He still is.  When a government begins to buy banks, it's at the very least socialism (if not, more accurately, fascism).  For all intents and purposes, this money could easily be in Bush's pockets.  We don't and won't know this because this particular sweetheart deal came with NO oversight and NO transparency as conditions on the part of Bush.  By the way, Bush bought a ranch in Paraguay. 


Basically, Bush had a lot of knowledgeable, independent people who had NO conflict of interest from having been senior executives of the failed companies from which he could have chosen.


Instead, he chose those who were at the very top to the crooks (if not the crooks themselves.)


In short, Bush hired the foxes to watch the hen houses.  No doubt in my mind that Bush's pockets are going to be pretty full soon if they're not already.


The arrogance with which these auto executives presented their testimony is reminiscent of all the arrogant people who surround themselves with the Arrogant-In-Chief.


In the middle of all this, though, I do see somewhat of a silver lining.  The less money people have to spend, the lower prices will be forced to go -- all that supply and demand stuff. 


Enter Obama's "bottom-up" theory.  Once the lives of the least of us can improve a bit, that will hopefully trickle up to everyone else.


I also heard an excellent idea on TV recently:  That every single CEO of a company should NEVER earn more than the President of the United States.  I kind of liked that one. 


P.S.  I apologize if this post doesn't make any sense.  I'm very heavily medicated right now and probably shouldn't even be at the computer.  I've tried to write this as coherently as I could.  If I failed, I apologize. 


Hope you all have a great evening.




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Question regarding possible recession?? s/m

With the "bubble bursting" in regards to the housing market and rising fuel prices, do you think a major recession is on the horizon in the US?


I definitely think so, but was wondering what others think?


The Whiner's Recession
 Senator McCain and his friends no doubt still believe that the economy's fundamentals are strong, but Friday's jobs numbers clearly show how bad things have gotten. The 6.1 percent unemployment rate reported for August is almost as high as the worst levels from the last recession. A broader measure of labor market weakness, that includes people who can only find part-time work or who have given up looking for jobs, is higher than at any point in the last recession.

    When the labor market weakens, workers have less bargaining power with their employers. As a result, wages are trailing more than 2 percentage points behind inflation over the last year.


    Wages are virtually the entire income for most workers. If the purchasing power of their wages falls by 2 percent, this is the equivalent of a 2 percentage point increase in their tax rate.


    This is worth thinking about. Most workers in the country have just seen the equivalent of a 2 percentage point increase in their tax rate, and it has gotten almost no attention. By contrast, Senator McCain is claiming that the economy will collapse if we increase the tax rate by 3.6 percentage points for people who can't remember how many homes they own.


    It is easy to understand how a typical family experiences real hardship when their wages don't keep up with the price of food, gas, and heating oil. It's a bit harder to understand how the folks who can't keep track of their homes will suffer by restoring tax rates to the Clinton-era levels.


    This brings us to the other important point about the Friday jobs numbers. The economy is in bad shape and getting worse. This disaster is happening while we are experimenting with the tax policies advocated by Senator McCain. We have an economy that is now shedding jobs at the rate of almost 100,000 a month. There is no prospect of turnaround in sight. We could have half a million fewer jobs by the time the next president is sworn into office than we do today.


    This is the Bush-McCain economy. Senator McCain may have forgotten, but President Bush already tried his economic policies and the results are not good. We have just been through a business cycle in which the wage of the typical worker and the typical working family fell. This is the first time that has ever happened.


    As bad as the situation is, it will surely get worse as the recession deepens. Wages and incomes will fall further behind inflation as the unemployment rate continues to rise. By contrast, the Clinton-era tax rates were associated with the most prosperous period since the early seventies.


    As I have written many times, Clinton's policies do not deserve all the credit for the prosperity of the late 90s, and President Bush's polices do not deserve all the blame for the economy's poor performance in the current decade.


    However, it strains credulity to argue that the Clinton-era tax rates are a recipe for stagnation, while the Bush-McCain tax cuts for the rich are the road to prosperity. When he pushes his tax cuts as a remedy for the economy's ills, Senator McCain is effectively imitating Groucho Marx's famous line: "what are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"


    At this point, McCain should be embarrassed to even say that tax cuts for the rich help the economy. Tax cuts for the rich help the rich, they don't help the economy. It's that simple.


    This economic catastrophe was many years in the making. There is no painless way to recover from the collapse of the housing bubble and the correction from an over-valued dollar. We do know that Senator McCain's plan to keep giving the rich more money is not a road to prosperity because that is exactly what we have been doing.


    We can't know exactly how Senator Obama will address the economy's problems if he takes office in January in part because we don't know exactly where the economy will be. However, a plan that focuses on supporting ordinary workers and promoting clean technologies, is likely to produce much better results than policies that are focused on redistributing even more income to the wealthy.


http://www.truthout.org/article/the-whiners-recession


That happened to me the last recession we had...
and it took a good 6 years to right itself after the economy straightened out. And when it did...money went right into a CD. I don't mind a little in the market but I am not young enough to wait several years for rebounding again. Sigh.
And you don't think this recession (soon to be depression)...(sm)

has anything to do with it?  Hey, that's what republicans want, big business to grow fast--no regulation--me, me, me...


How about all those families that are going to suffer from this.  Did they ask for it too?


I meant recession, not depression. nm

Worried about a recession?? Here's the solution s/m

With Recession Looming, Bush Tells America To ‘Go Shopping More’


Today, President Bush held a news conference where he discussed the “way forward” for the economy in 2007. Renowned Morgan Stanley economist Steven Roach says the the “odds of the U.S. economy tipping into recession are about 40 to 45 per cent.” New York Times columnist Paul Krugman notes that “the odds are very good — maybe 2 to 1,” that the U.S. will teeter toward a recession in 2007. Bush’s solution? “Go shopping more.”


Michigan is in a one state recession. sm
The big 3 are tanking, our unemployment numbers are higher than the nation as a whole, jobs are leaving like the spring thaw, and who does Obama pick as part of his "Financial Advisory Committee"....none other than our wonderful governor, Jennifer Granholm. She can't advise her own state let alone the country. She now says that we have to cut the budget even more than last time. There isn't a whole lot left to cut. Our education system is absolutely the pits, Detroit is bankrupting us all, and she gets picked for part of the financial advisory committee. Makes me wonder what's going in Obama's head.

Oh well, at least I have a trade I can take with me where ever I go. The ultimate in healthcare portability.
Recession, Suicide and Tips from the Government!

This isn't terribly reassuring!


Government website now offers 'suicide warning signs' for victims of recession


John Byrne
Published: Tuesday March 31, 2009


When the government starts warning you not to commit suicide, you know things have gotten bad.

The US Department of Health and Human Services now has a webpage for the current recession, "Getting Through Tough Economic Times." Headlined under the Substance Abuse & Mental Health Services Administration (
www.samhsa.gov/economy/), the guide offers tips on "how to deal with the effects financial difficulties can have on your physical and mental health." The site went public Tuesday.


The remainder of the story is at:  http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Government_website_offers_suicide_warning_signs_0331.html


Change recession to depression and I'll agree with you.
They just signed America's death warrant. 
The Great Recession. American a thrift nation.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1891527,00.html?cnn=yes

Sometimes we change because we want to: lose weight, go vegan, find God, get sober. But sometimes we change because we have no choice, and since this violates our manifest destiny to do as we please, it may take a while before we notice that those are often the changes we need to make most. We ran a good long road test of the premise that more is better: we built houses that could hold all our stuff but were too big to heat; we bought cars that could ferry a soccer team but were too big to park; we thought we were embracing the simple life by squeezing in a yoga class between working and shopping and took an extra job to pay for it all.

Now we're stripping down and starting over. A platoon of TIME reporters and pollsters fanned out to every corner of the country to measure — anecdotally and empirically — what's changed in the way we set our priorities and spend our money since the Great Recession began. Most people think the pain will be lasting and the effects permanent: only 12% expect economic recovery to begin within six months, half believe it will be another year or two, and 14% believe we are at the start of a long-term decline. (See TIME's special report on how Americans have adjusted to the recession.)

Our institutions watch for economic vital signs. But maybe, for individuals, the sickness is what came before — the hallucination that debt would never need to be repaid, that values only rise, that bubbles never burst. When the markets collapsed, that fever broke. In our assumptions and attitudes and expectations, the recovery is already well under way.

Talk to people not just about how they feel but about how they're living now, and you hear more resolve than regret. Nearly half say their economic status declined this year, and 57% now think the American Dream is harder to achieve. And yet pain and promise are a package deal; even after all this, fully 56% believe that America's best days are ahead. It would be nice if it took something short of a heart attack to get us to work out, eat better and spend more time with our kids. But in the end, where we wind up matters more than how we got there.

Unlike any other downturn since the 1930s, this one has affected everyone, either the fact of it or the fear of it. Even when prosperity returns, 61% predict, they'll continue to spend less than they did before. Among people earning less than $50,000 a year — roughly half of U.S. households — 34% have not gone to the doctor because of the cost, 31% have been out of work at some point, and 13% have been hungry. At the same time, 4 in 10 people earning more than $100,000 say they are buying more store brands, 36% are using coupons more, and 39% have postponed or canceled a vacation to save money. Forty percent of people at all income levels say they feel anxious, 32% have trouble sleeping, and 20% are depressed. After a season of big news, of war and storms and swindlers, pirates and poison peanut butter, 43% are watching the news even more, taking the medicine even if it tastes bad because skipping it could be risky. (See the worst business deals of 2008.)

The calculus of life suddenly offers new equations. Insurance agents see clients raising their deductibles to lower premiums, or skipping collision coverage for older cars so that they bear more of the risks themselves. Twenty-seven percent have raided their retirement or college savings to pay the bills. Violent crime may not be up, but fear of it is: 40% of people say that since the downturn began, they are more worried about their personal safety. Gun sales at large retail stores have jumped 39% this year, according to the SportsOneSource, a research firm that tracks the sporting-goods industry, and shops are reporting ammunition shortages; they can't keep up with demand.

For all the reflexive analogies, this is not the 1930s, when Babe Ruth took a $10,000 salary cut (roughly what A-Rod earns per swing) and New York City Mayor Jimmy Walker told theaters to show only cheery films. And yet we're channeling our grandparents, who were taught, like a mantra, to use it up, wear it out, make it do, do without. Now, if you can make it, you don't have to buy it: just replace the lawn with a vegetable garden, eat your fill and then store whatever is left. Sales of canning and freezing supplies rose 15% during the first three months of the year compared with the same period last year. Cough- and cold-remedy sales are down 9% because you can make your own chicken soup; vitamin sales are up, maybe because you hope you won't need to. Common sense is back in style, meaning we're less willing to buy what we can have for free: bottled-water sales have dropped 10%. The 137-year-old Los Angeles public library system set record highs in circulation and visitors. And film and camera sales have plunged 33% this year, because who would want this winter in their album?

There's a natural longing to find the upside in the downturn. A college-admissions officer, watching families reassess their means and ends, suggests that maybe the insane competitiveness will recede. The yoga instructor says living more simply relaxes us, as if the entire country needs to slow its breathing. The buyer at the used-car lot feels both frugal and green: that hatchback isn't used, it's "pre-owned," and this counts as recycling. The discount shoppers view their task as a scavenger hunt and take a certain pride in finding the bargain, cutting the deal; 23% of us are haggling more, a profitable contact sport.

No one wishes for hardship. But as we pick through the economic rubble, we may find that our riches have buried our treasures. Money does not buy happiness; Scripture asserts this, research confirms it. Once you reach the median level of income, roughly $50,000 a year, wealth and contentment go their separate ways, and studies find that a millionaire is no more likely to be happy than someone earning one-twentieth as much. Now a third of people polled say they are spending more time with family and friends, and nearly four times as many people say their relations with their kids have gotten better during this crisis than say they have gotten worse.

A consumer culture invites us to want more than we can ever have; a culture of thrift invites us to be grateful for whatever we can get. So we pass the time by tending our gardens and patching our safety nets and debating whether, years from now, this season will be remembered for what we lost, or all that we found.
And George kept up with those "we are not in a recession" speeches, hilarious but tragic....nm
nm
George Soros is having "a very good recession". Made $2.9 billion.

So, this "man of the people" who funds the loony left and wants all the rest of us to be communists rakes in $billions from the recession.  He's out there picking up stuff at bargain-basement prices just like JP Morgan and his kind did.


Disgusting.


war, depression, recession, collapse of financial system, people losing

homes, natural disasters unattended to, collapsing bridges, earmark bridges. Address those first, save flag for later.


 


Nation has lost 4.4 million jobs since recession began in Dec. 2007

Unemployment rate soars to 8.1 percent
Employers resort to even bigger layoffs as they scramble to survive
BREAKING NEWS
The Associated Press
updated 8:02 a.m. CT, Fri., March. 6, 2009


WASHINGTON - The nation's unemployment rate bolted to 8.1 percent in February, the highest since late 1983, as cost-cutting employers slashed 651,000 jobs.


Both figures were worse than analysts expected and the Labor Department's report shows America's workers being clobbered by a relentless wave of layoffs.


The net loss of jobs in February came after even deeper payroll reductions in the prior two months, according to revised figures. The economy lost 681,000 jobs in December and another 655,000 in January.


Since the recession began in December 2007, the economy has lost 4.4 million jobs, more than half of which occurred in the past four months.


Employers are shrinking their work forces at alarming clip and are turning to other ways to slash costs — including trimming workers' hours, freezing wages or cutting pay — because the recession has eaten into their sales and profits. Customers at home and abroad are cutting back as other countries cope with their own economic problems.


With employers showing no appetite to hire, the unemployment jumped to 8.1 percent from 7.6 percent in January. That was the highest since December 1983, when the jobless rate was 8.3 percent.


All told, the number of unemployed people climbed to 12.5 million. In addition, the number of people forced to work part time for "economic reasons" rose by a sharp 787,000 to 8.6 million. That's people who would like to work full time but whose hours were cut back or were unable to find full-time work.


Meanwhile, the average work week in February stayed at 33.3 hours, matching the record low set in December.


Job losses were widespread in February.


Construction companies eliminated 104,000 jobs. Factories axed 168,000. Retailers cut nearly 40,000. Professional and business services got rid of 180,000, with 78,000 jobs lost at temporary-help agencies. Financial companies reduced payrolls by 44,000. Leisure and hospitality firms chopped 33,000 positions.


The few areas spared: education and health services, as well as government, which boosted employment last month.


A new wave of layoffs hit this week.


General Dynamics Corp. said Thursday it will lay off 1,200 workers due partly to plummeting sales of business and personal jets that forced it to cut production. Defense contractor Northrop Grumman Corp., and Tyco Electronics Ltd., which makes electronic components, undersea telecommunications systems and wireless equipment, also are trimming payrolls.


"This is basically cleaning house for a lot of firms," said John Silvia, chief economist at Wachovia. "They are using the first quarter to cut back employment and figure out what they want."


Disappearing jobs and evaporating wealth from tanking home values, 401(k)s and other investments have forced consumers to retrench, driving companies to lay off workers. It's a vicious cycle in which all the economy's negative problems feed on each other, worsening the downward spiral.


"The economy is in a tailspin. Businesses are jettisoning jobs at an unprecedented pace," said Richard Yamarone, economist at Argus Research.


The country is getting bloodied by fallout from the housing, credit and financial crises_ the worst since the 1930s. And there's no easy fix for a quick turnaround, economists said.


President Barack Obama is counting on a multipronged assault to lift the country out of recession: a $787 billion stimulus package of increased federal spending and tax cuts; a revamped, multibillion-dollar bailout program for the nation's troubled banks; and a $75 billion effort to stem home foreclosures.


Even in the best-case scenario that the relief efforts work and the recession ends later in 2009, the unemployment rate is expected to keep climbing, hitting 9 percent or higher this year. In fact, the Federal Reserve thinks the unemployment rate will stay elevated into 2011. Economists say the job market may not get back to normal — meaning a 5 percent unemployment rate — until 2013.


Businesses won't be inclined to ramp up hiring until they are sure any economic recovery has staying power.


The economy contracted at a staggering 6.2 percent in the final three months of 2008, the worst showing in a quarter-century, and it will probably continue to shrink during the first six months of this year.


Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke told Congress earlier this week that recent economic barometers "show little sign of improvement" and suggest that "labor market conditions may have worsened further in recent weeks."


Consumers’ growing frugality has hammered automakers, among other industries. General Motors Corp.'s auditors on Thursday raised "substantial doubt" about the auto giant’s ability to continue operations, and the company said it might have to seek bankruptcy protection, sending its shares below $2.


Bill Hampel, chief economist for the Credit Union National Association, said his group’s members are reporting record increases in deposits. Government figures show the savings rate jumped to 5 percent in January from zero last spring. That’s the highest rate since 1995 and a much faster shift than he had expected, Hampel said.


Consumer spending makes up about 70 percent of the economy. It topped out at 71 percent in 2005, Hampel said, but will likely drop by 2 to 3 percentage points over the next few years.


Increased savings can actually lower economic growth. Economists call it the “paradox of thrift”: What’s good for each of us individually — being thrifty, limiting our spending — can worsen a recession when everyone does it all at once.


Hoffman said about half the 6.2 percent drop in economic output last quarter was attributable to lower consumer spending.


I always knew I would NOT

vote for Obama.  Now that Palin is McCain's running mate.....I feel more confident than ever that I made the right decision when I chose to vote for McCain......even if McCain is really really really old.  ; - )


McCain and Palin ང 


I knew you would be one of the few to...
...understand this post, without tossing in all these other issues again into the mix.

I can hardly wait to see her mix it up with them either!
yes! I knew it!

They won't let her off the leash to speak without a written statement in front of her.  Hope people take notice and realize what this means.  Pat Buchanan yesterday said she was under no obligation to ever give an interview.  Isn't that unbelievable??


 


Gee I wish I knew as much as you do.

Most of this I already knew......sm
but some I did not.  America, collectively speaking, bought it hook, line and sinker.  One can only "hope" that the "change" will be for something they really "believe" in.  I fear it is not and it is too late to stop the well-oiled wheel of fate from turning. 

Obama was manufactured for this job by his puppeteers and now they are ready to put on the show.  Those who think something simple like his birth certificate will make a differece are as deluded as the sheeple are.  We, the people, have been duped on all fronts and now it is time to sit down and obediently watch the puppet show called "The Revelation."  Hurry quick for a front-row seat! 
Wish I knew!
Pubs don't really seem to have one, which is really disappointing. There are quiet a few out there that make a lot of noise, but I don't really see any of them walking the walk, you know?

And I'm really disappointed in Michael Steele and his apology. I thought at least he'd have a backbone - it's okay not to agree with Rush and it's okay to say it out loud - sheesh!
I knew nothing about it at all until that very day
I did not know what it was about, nothing and I turned onto the bigger channels to see what was happening. I left the house and heard some local radio news saying not much traffic in Atlanta pertaining to that. I just surmized the tea party referenced the Boston tea party relating to taxes but there was not much coverage at all that I saw.
Yes, I knew....
It was just one of those automatic MT things that made me laugh. I have to really concentrate to type the word milk since it invariably comes out mild.
It blows the lid off what we already knew. sm
Their Bush hatred is so virulent, it wipes out all reasoning and blackens their souls.  They have no compassion for the people in the south, only gleeful that they have once again been given a reason to hate Bush.  No matter how misguided that hatred and blame is. 
gt it would go a lot better for you if you actually knew what you were talking about. sm
instead of pulling stuff off PETA's website.  You don't know Kyoto.  Just admit it.  You don't know it and you are pretending to know it and you are just looking silly. 
Knew what you meant
Isn't it awful when your own relatives treat you like dirt. My sister is mormon and she actually thinks I'm on the same level with manson, dahmer, hitler, etc because I'm not mormon (we both grew up going to methodist services with 12 years of sunday school). Inlaws treated us like garbage cos we didn't go to their church when we lived near them. I am a deeply spiritual person but I am not a Christian and I count myself blessed not to be in their crowd.
I knew it had been filed....
so now they have been served? Out of curiousity, if he was proven ineligible and had to withdraw...what happens then? Another primary or what? Has that ever happened before? Where a nominee had to withdraw before the election? Does the party just pick another person and that person pick another VP?
i knew what you meant
I took no offense, but I do get a little sensitive as I would have loved to have some children when I was younger (but then I look at the Menendez brothers and my own nephew and say - what a relief- smart decision for me) HA HA. I did understand your post as you intended it that if man and woman don't unite there is no offspring, but I was just saying I believe that we can all live together. Man and woman can off their offspring they want and the others who wish to pursue an alternative way just won't have kids. I'd rather be with someone of my own gender and be truly and blissfully in love and married to her and not have any kids, rather than have kids and be married to a miserable person just because he's the other sex.
How do you fix corruption??? They knew what
His own spokesperson said they have "amended" the papers to read ..... in other words, we will admit the money was given SPECIFICALLY to hire more workers to go out and do whatever necessary to get more votes for Obama, even if through illegal means.


An Obama spokesman said Federal Election Commission reports would be amended to show Citizens Services Inc. — a subsidiary of ACORN — worked in “get-out-the-vote” projects, instead of activities such as polling, advance work and staging major events as stated in FEC finance reports filed during the primary.

I knew what you meant as well.

Just like if McCain had chosen Powell.  The dems would be in an uproar because they would say he picked him because he was black, not because he has great values, experience, etc. 


Oh wait, they already did that with somebody else...


I do have a grip. If she knew about them, she would have
tried to clean them up. It is her community, after all, and she has children growing up there.


Are you implying something more sinister here? If so, please provide referenced links with proof.
Do you think they knew the U.S. has only 50 states, too?nm

JTBB - I knew you'd try this
That is why I said that are many more websites than just what I listed. You can say all you want and try to reason that your viewpoints and your opinions are truthful while the others aren't, but in actuality they all are like Hitler. The actions of what Obama has done so far are like Hitler's whether you like to hear it or not.
Clinton knew
who had information about Bin Laden before 9-11 and did nothing?  Oh yeah, President Clinton, another Democrat who chose to do nothing...Bush was less than 9 months into his first term when 9-11 happened.
That was the first I knew about Murtha except

before the election.


I agree with your statement on the others. I think Pelosi is too pushy and I wonder why she is in such a hurry to pass all O's stuff so quick. I often wonder what kind of background she has.


I watched a program the other night (don't ask who, I'm always flipping channels) and they had a perfect answer for where Gitmo prisoners should go....to Alcatraz, right in Pelosi's backyard and she can then look through those viewers that look out over the bay and watch the prisoners herself. I thought it was hillarious.


I knew it! (see post above somewhere)
Tell us what that lifestyle is like. Do you guys actually do the horizontal bop with your animal-suits on?
I knew you sucked...
after reading your posts on other boards. Hope your new job sucks as much as you do.
If Americans Knew..................sm
Copioed from the wesite

'If Americans Knew'

Last Updated July 9, 2008

In the late 1800s a small, fanatic movement called “political Zionism” began in Europe. Its goal was to create a Jewish state somewhere in the world. Its leaders settled on the ancient and long-inhabited land of Palestine for the location of this state.


Over the coming decades Zionist leaders used various strategies to accomplish their goal of taking over Palestine.

This growing violence culminated in Israel's ruthless 1947-49 "War of Independence," in which at least 750,000 Palestinian men, women, and children were expelled from their homes – half of them even before any Arab armies joined the war. At every point in this war, Zionist forces outnumbered Arab forces. This massive humanitarian disaster is known among Palestinians and others as ‘The Catastrophe,’ AL Nakba in Arabic.


Zionist forces committed at least 33 massacres and destroyed 531 Palestinian villages and towns.

This was the historical creation of the state of Israel and this is the truth, no proaganda.

This is History.

You can read the whole article on the website

If Americans knew.com




I knew there was a reason I can't stand him.

His office *knew* (tired) ...nm

I knew it was not you who posted the second time...
and I was responding to that poster. My description is not a tad overstated, and if it suits you to believe that the baby is not alive and does not feel pain, so be it. Dilatation and curettage is dilating a uterus and cutting the baby to ribbons. That is not overstated. You should view a film of one. Partial birth abortion is gruesome and horrible. I did overstate it. There is no nice clean unpainful way to abort a child. No need to be condescending, either, but that is not unexpected.

The medical community may refer to miscarriage as abortion, that is semantics. You and I both know that a spontaneous abortion has nothing to do with human intervention. D&C, partial birth abortion, those require human intervention. Not even remotely the same thing; we both know that. As to the medical community...why does the medical community do surgery in utero....why would they do surgery on something dead? That makes absolutely no sense. The below is taken from an article about a procedure performed on a 30-week baby:

On Nov. 7, a team of specialists -- cardiologists from Children's and high-risk obstetrical specialists from Brigham and Women's Hospital -- used ultrasound imaging to guide a catheter through Angela VanDerwerken's abdomen and uterus into the heart of the 30-week-old fetus, a 1 1/2 -hour operation.

A fine needle, followed by a wire with a preloaded balloon, was pushed into the left atrium and then through the atrial septum to reduce the pressure that was causing the atrium to expand with blocked blood. The balloon was inflated until the atrial wall widened. Then the same process was used to create a second hole in the septum, only this time, a tiny stent was put in place.

Cheers rang through the operating room when heart monitors showed blood flowing through the stent. But doctors would not know how successful they'd been until Grace was born by vaginal delivery Jan. 10.

Jay VanDerwerken of Ashburn, next to wife Angela, embraces their daughter Grace during a news conference at Children's Hospital Boston. (By Josh Reynolds -- Associated Press)

The medical community proves what a lot of us already morally know, that the child in utero is alive. How does a heart beat and pump blood in something not alive?

You are right, I would choose not to have an abortion. You can also rest assured I will not stop calling it what it is, either, and that is murder. You want a woman's right to choose, but you do not want to allow me to have an opinion because it does not agree with yours. Right now the law permits abortion on demand (thanks to activist judges who took the right away from individual states and people to vote on the matter) and my faith also tells me I must obey the law of the land. But my faith does not tell me I should not continue to call what is wrong, wrong. As one poster so aptly put it, just because it is legal does not make it right. I am not telling you or anyone else whether or not to have an abortion. What I am telling you is that I believe to choose abortion is wrong, and I believe that any time a society starts to devalue life it sets the stage for moral decline and sets the stage for many worse things to come. History has proven that, time and time again.
I knew an MT who did just that - died at her desk.
!
I knew about birth control.
However, was I willing to go to my mom and ask her to put me on the pill.  I knew my mother would have suspected my sexual activity and I didn't want her to know.  Most teens also have the belief that "it won't happen to me."  Now that I'm older, I see how some of the decisions I made back when I was 17 were poor ones, but at that time I thought they were great ideas.  Do I blame my mom and dad for the bad decisions I made back then....no.  Those were my decisions, my choices, and I had to deal with the consequences. 
So, if you knew someone that could build you a home
you wouldn't like that? You're so full of crap!

Of course you would. If I knew a contractor that could help me build a house for less, charge me less and still get the job done, you darn tootin I would.

Stop acting so self-righteous.

Even I got better sense than that. I'm a DEMOCRAT who would love to know someone to help me cut corners to build a nice new home.


Everyone here knew you were voting Obama
Your phony posts have been full of crap from day one.

Every single post you've made here has bashed Republicans and praised that spider monkey obama.

Perhaps MTs who can't find a job STINK AT THEIR JOBS!!!! If you don't have work, do't blame the Republicans. Get some education and fix the problem yourself.

Stop beggining big government to fix your own shortcomings!!!!!
Thank you, sbMT. I knew the verse was in there
:)
this is an open board last I knew
and there is no reason to put down a person for posting what you do not approve of.
last I knew there was nothing about the president not being able to smoke...
x
Hey JTBB - knew I could count on you LOL
As I posted I knew exactly who would be trying to cut down the articles. Glad to see you didn't let me down. HA HA HA. At least though there will be people with open minds who will read it.

The rest of you I think need to give all yourselved a big group hug and high five. It must feel good to you all to cut down and insult people that don't think the way you do.

But wait...you can always just stay tuned to MSNBC for all your tabloid shows you like to consider "real" news. It looks like Matthews and Olberman have taken over almost every show there while they spew their hateful viewpoints.
Yep, I knew it would go from slamming her kids to
nm
Yeah. They knew it was going to happen
Sen. Schumer from NY knew last January. So you know he told all his buddies. I posted a link about it yesterday.
oh, honey, I knew you'd be the first BHL to answer

You really are a piece of work. 


Let the pills go, honey.  That's old news.  For being in health care, you embarrass me.


I know the difference here, so my posts here are done.