I apologize,,,,I should not have invoked the SP issue...
Posted By: sam on 2008-09-02
In Reply to: Did I mention at any time anything about - Maxie
i am sorry.
Sometimes you have to put pieces together to get a picture. That is why I suggested first, finding out what Marxist theory is. And then start looking at that thread throughout Obama's life. Until I started going to the internet and researching, I had no idea. I had seen the name Alinsky in some of the stuff about his community organizing, but it did not click with me. When I went to the internet and started looking...there is a lot of information there. Shying away from opinion and he said she said, and just looking at facts...and then looking at the way the marxist theory is woven into his whole hope and change thing, the redistribution of wealth...and then to have Alinsky's son say he learned well from his father...
All I can say is, I am an Independent too, and if this was John McCain or Hillary Clinton (come to find out she was one of his students too) or Sarah Palin or anyone else...it would give me pause.
We are not talking about a senate seat where there is not much power to implement change...we are talking about the President of the United States with a majority democratic congress.
Everything I read in the article I posted at the top just makes sense. It all falls into place.
Definitely enough for this Independent to sit up and take notice. No one else has to if they do not want to. I am continuing to research.
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Ah, but he did win the debate. JM invoked his name so much,
nm
No issue is no issue. Denying that
nm
Okay, then I apologize. sm
I was just going from past experience. Merry Christmas!
Sorry, CG. I apologize....
I was just curious as to why you posted that, but none of my business, as Lucy pointed out. So...sorry. Ignore my post.
And I do apologize....sm
I assumed that your original post was about manmade global warming, since it was from a liberal media site, that didn't bring up the article.
You are correct. Global warming exists. Naturally occuring global warming. NASA is correct on this also.
Al Gore/ala an Inconvenient Truth, is not correct. No facts back him up.
No need to for you to apologize at all.
I totally read that with a "tone of voice" that you certainly did not intend. The fault is totally mine.
Have a great evening. :)
No need to apologize...(sm)
we all get frustrated on here from time to time. As far as Obama picking pubs for positions, there's the sec of defense, Robert Gates, and Lahood for transportation, and I think a few others. Someone said something about the pubs being picked are just token pubs, but I think if he is just going for token picks, it wouldn't be for sec of defense. I think this pick said a lot about Obama and his intentions.
I really do hope that he does listen to pubs as well as dems. As a poster mentioned earlier, there are good ideas in both parties. I'm not trying to paint a rosy picture here, but we really need to find some kind of common ground, and I think (whether successful or not) Obama is trying to create that kind of environment.
BTW, I like Rachel Maddow much better too. She isn't as blatant as Olberman, but she is a little sarcastic. LOL. I picked Olberman's video because it showed Obama going to the dinner as I was counting on someone to say that it didn't happen because it wasn't in conservative news. While I do think Olberman is funny at times, I mostly just go with the quotes and video he presents and kind of tune the commentary out.
Noone said the UN should apologize...nm
?????
Oh yes they do want UN to apologize.
North Korea threatened Wednesday to conduct nuclear and missile tests unless the U.N. apologizes for criticizing its April 5 rocket launch, dramatically raising its stake in the worsening standoff over its atomic programs.
Pyongyang's Foreign Ministry said in a statement the country "will be compelled to take additional self-defensive measures" unless the U.N. Security Council apologizes immediately. "The measures will include nuclear tests and test-firings of intercontinental ballistic missiles."
Apologize For What?
Barack Obama: 'arrogant US has been dismissive' to allies
President Barack Obama has offered an apology for the Bush era, declaring that America had “shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive” towards its allies.
His speech in Strasbourg went further than any United States president in history in criticising his own country’s action while standing on foreign soil........
Our European 'arrogance' in alphabetical order…
SEE IMAGE BELOW:
If I added correctly the count is 104,366 dead and we have to watch any American elected leader who apologizes to Europe and the Middle East that our country is "arrogant"!
No need to apologize. It's
...crankiness that comes from watching the country being torn down piece by piece by the Monster in the White House.
On checking, it was not you and I apologize.
It was someone else below. So sorry.
Again, I apologize, Moderator.
Thank you for deleting the offensive word; thereby letting me know that it was inappropriate. I will be more careful in the future. Thank you for your patience and understanding!
sorry for overreacting.....I do apologize.
I just don't understand why where I presently live or the fact my husband is career military...why you think that has anything to do with what I post. There are Democrats in the military and there are Democrats in small towns who see things like you apparently see them....you don't think so? I also said I am not from Pennsylvania, I just happen to live there now because that is where the career has us at this point. Your life is polar opposite..meaning what? You live in a city, not close to anyone in the military....? What things about your life make your view of politics different than mine? And why do you think my life has to do with how I feel about politics? Just trying to learn here, not be confrontational.
Then I humbly apologize, had the same sig as you
xx
If it was not you, then I deeply apologize.
Must have been a different Shelly. I am sure that there is more than one. Have a good day!
I apologize for the confusion.
Please see my other post in response to yours. 
It was professional to apologize..
what are you missing here? They both explained they WAY they meant to say something. This is long over. Geez, it isn't that confusing!
Right on! Obama would rather apologize for his
nm
I'd be delighted to apologize to Democrat.
Could someone just please tell me why one is necessary and how my name wound up in your post?
Or are you just so blinded by your hatred of me that you can't see straight any more when reading these boards?
You poor dear. You should really see about getting rid of that hatred. It will eat you alive. 
I certainly apologize for the dear part.
It's part of my southern culture. I have never known anyone to have a problem with it. I am so very sorry to hear that the deaths of 20,000 men means nothing to you. Debated ad nauseum? I have seen no debate about this. There is no debate because it is true. The fact that the North Vietnamese say it is true should count for something, but I know how blinded some people can be. Have a nice day.
I apologize if I misinterpreted your post...
and I did not mean to be insulting. But...unless democratic platform principles have changed and now include redistribution of wealth, I do know the difference. Redistribution of wealth is socialist bordering on Marxist, and Obama has already said he was going to do it, in the form of the government taking the profits of a business and redistributing that money to people who did nothing to earn it. That is a dangerous precedent and starts headlong down the slippery slope of far left socialism. That has nothing to do with a kinder, gentler America taking care of each other.
Also...with all ue respect...social programs have run amok in this country and the main thing they have done is destroy ambition and the will to better oneself, ideals that made this country great. That hard work can move you up in the world...and it can.
And it has gotten to the point that the middle tax has been taxed into the "poor" class, trying to pay for all the social programs. I looked at the list of what Obama says he will do. If he does do those things, he will have to raise taxes, and not just on people who make $250,000 a year or more. And if you think about it logically...many of the small businesses in this country are at that income threshold. But just because you make $250,000 on paper does not mean you get home with that. The "rich" in this country already pay over 90% of all income taxes that go into the government. Seriously...don't you think that is enough? I am by no means rich, but I think that is enough. Obama is a Democrat, but he is also a socialist. Look at his history, who he has associated with throughout his adult life who share the same mode of thinking. Socialism never works. Invariably ends in dictatorship. Any time the government gets in the business of taking away something from the private sector saying it is going to redistribute to people who did not earn it...it leads to dictatorship. Cuba is a good example...Venezuela another one.
Believe me, I know all Democrats are not socialists. And I know advocating social programs is not the same thing as advocating socialism. However, what Obama says he is going to do IS socialism, far left socialism. The fact that he is a Democrat has nothing to do with his socialist tendencies. He is a socialist who also happens to be a Democrat.
Of course. I apologize. It is the nature of the left...
to ridicule. Part of the DNC DNA. What WAS I thinking.
It is easier to forgive someone when they apologize first......nm
x
You should all apologize to Sarah and Bristol Palin....
http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/08/30/dailykos-rumors-debunked-here-is-sarah-palin-pregnancy-photo-on-feb-10th-2008/
geezzzz, people.
I thought with the posts it would be obvious...so I apologize.
But Nancy Pelosi is not going to remove the people from their posts. Dodd and Frank should both be removed. They have not learned a thing from this; they tried to put an earmark for ACORN in the first draft of the bill. They have learned nothing. And no one seems to care. I just don't get it. Absolutely do not get it. The democratic congress will not police themselves, and their party will not police them either. I don't understand it. I don't understand how democrats on this board demanded accountability from republicans on every issue, from the Bush administration, and are absolutely unwilling to hold democrats reponsible when they are. Explain to me why that is. I would love to know why that is.
Why should Obama apologize for Franks or Dodd? He is not...sm
their keeper. John Glenn and John McCain did not receive a formal reprimand but were judged to have "poor judgement" with their naive support quashing an investigation of the doings of Charles Keating in the 1980's whose financial doings eventually caused the savings and loan crisis just 2 years later. $180 billion that time, probably more with inflation than now. Bill Clinton dug us out of that hole, and here we are again.
Okie dokie. Then I apologize to gourdpainter. Was...
just asking.
As I said above, come back to this same board and apologize when he does a great job!
Geesh! Give the guy a chance already before you knock him!
Did you ever hear dubya apologize for the crooks and...
incompetent morons he hired? NO. Heck, he wanted to appoint Harriet Myers to the supreme court. Talk about STUPID. Heckuva job brownie. Outing CIA agent. Scooter Libby. Jack Abramoff and his dastardly deeds - need I add to the list? Choke on that Kool-Aid, PLEASE!
Nope, you won't hear dubya apologize,
but that's all in the past, as are the crooks and incompetent morons Clinton surrounded himself with for eight years - no apologies there either, by the way. We're talking about Obama now and he's already appointed one tax evader and tried to appoint another, and he's only been in office two weeks! No Kool-Aid needed to see those whoppers!
I need to apologize for any posts I made tonight
I'm so tired of trying to make a living but betwen the state and federal government taking it all away when we get finally get near the top of things I really, really get nasty sometimes. My grandchildren and great-grandchildren will be paying for what we could not stop; i.e., stimuls, TARP, and everything else coming down the pike, and I don't think any of it is right. I feel our country is down the tubes and there is no getting out of it. I hope I am wrong, but between the state and federal government and what they are creating, they will take, or try to take, everything we all worked hard to achieve. Big Brother has come to the USA even if it did take more than 25 years. You all know this country is going down but what, really, is anyone doing to stop it? Not much, because we are not a unified body, and unless we do band together and try, we are doomed. JMHO
Disclaimer: I will not apoligize for any answers I post because I feel they were not out of line.
I've been reading up on your illness. I apologize. I realize now how truly ill you all are. I wi
pray for your souls. Seriously. I'm not laughing, and I'm not joking because I truly feel sorry for you. I won't answer you any more because that seems to only make you sicker.
Religious Addiction: a mental illness with deadly social consequences.
by TrysDan Roberts
I do believe there is a Great Spirit responsible for the creation of the universe, but unfortunately, there have been those who have been the victims of the exploitation of this higher power.
When George W. Bush and the Christian Reich took control of the most powerful country in the world, The United States of America, a very dangerous virus began spreading throughout the country.
The virus: Christian Fascism.
This lethal threat to democracy is now infecting the world, ie...the invasion and occupation of Iraq.
To understand the Right Wing Zealots, it is important to acquire an understanding of what it means to be a religious addict. The following identifies important signs of religious addiction:
SYMPTOMS OF RELIGIOUS ADDICTION as written by Paschal Baute
Paschal Baute is a co-founder and facilitator of the Spiritual Growth Network of Kentucky. He is an organizational psychologist working with leadership and team development and personnel screening. His business web page will be found at www.paschalbaute.com
• Inability to think, doubt, or question religious information and/or authority
• Black-and-white, good/bad, either/or simplistic thinking: one way or the other
• Shame-based belief that you aren't good enough or you aren't doing it right
• Magical thinking that God will fix you/ do it all, without serious work on your part
• Scrupulosity: rigid obsessive adherence to rules, codes of ethics, or guidelines
• Uncompromising judgmental attitudes: readiness to find fault or evil out there
• Compulsive or obsessive praying, going to church or crusades, quoting scripture
• Unrealistic financial contributions
• Believing that sex is dirty; believing our bodies or physical pleasures are evil
• Compulsive overeating and/or excessive fasting
• Conflict and argumentation with science, medicine, and education
• Progressive detachment from the real work, isolation and breakdown of relationships
• Psychosomatic illness: back pains, sleeplessness, headaches, hypertension
• Manipulating scripture or texts, feeling specially chosen, claiming to receive special messages from God
• Maintaining a religious high, trance-like state, keeping a happy face (or the belief that one should...) (1.) © Paschal Baute 1993
Condensed 'Characteristics of a Religious Addictive System.' Dr. Thomas Edgington is the principle author and contributed 90% of the following:
• God is seen as impersonal and vindictive: members tend to have a grace- deficit theology. (Their religion and experience are based totally on fear, not on relief.)
• Emphasis on theological correctness to the neglect of relationships and of loving others.
• Demonstrates a spiritual arrogance [considers those from outside as less spiritual].
• You will hear comments like I pride myself on my humility.
• Majors on minor theological issues and ignores or minimizes major ones.
• Scripture is said to be of primary importance, but in reality it is the leader's interpretation of Scripture that has primary importance.
• Traditions often overrule Biblical truth.
• Scripture is often misquoted, used out of context, or is degraded to the level of trite, pat answers in order to prove a point or to exact obedience to a system.
• Intellectual development is limited to what fits the system; we think the way we do because we are right; the thoughts and opinions of others are not considered.
• Dogmatism is common: the point under discussion is often explained by the quotation of a Bible verse, again, usually out of context.
• Members attempt to impose their personal opinions upon outsiders or upon those still within the system but under suspicion.
• There is a lack of objective accountability: leadership is accountable to itself ONLY. [Often explains why the religious fear and despise psychology... fear of exposure by outsider]
• Leadership is viewed as infallible and beyond reproach.
• Undue/over-emphasis upon submission to authority.
• Expression of certain emotions, particularly anger, is seen as unspiritual.
• Low self image, hyperactive conscience, undue guilt, and an inability to forgive, either others or oneself is very common.
• Communication often centers around theological issues; personal issues are rarely discussed. When they are, two phenomena find expression: shredding people,setting up and knocking down straw men.
• Interpersonal intimacy is often lacking.
• Poor ability to relate to hurting people; offers pat answers instead of demonstrating loving care (2.)
Religious Addiction preys on the Weak and Vulnerable
After reading and processing the above characteristics of a religious addict, it is very to easy to find incidents of religious addictions since George W. Bush took power:
A while ago, I was watching the news stories about the Ten Commandments Monument being removed from a Government building in the United States. As I watched the protests, I thought how twisted right wing Christian zealots are; the way they whined and moaned lying on the ground reminded me of a religious addicted cult. There is so much hate and mental defects within the Christian Coalition. It is scary.
It is important for all countries to separate government from Organized Religion. Christian Right Wing Organized Religion is a very dangerous political institution. They have decided how people should live and those choosing a different way of life are viewed as deviant or enemies.
When looking at two men, George W. Bush and Mel Gibson, it is easy to see how dangerous Religious addiction can be to the rest of the population. Both these men are recovered drug addicts and drunks. What lead to their recovery was replacing their chemical addictions with Christian addiction. Like a cult, Christian Extremists target people when they are at their weakest; both men have weak minds which made them easy prey. They should not be respected, but looked at as very weak little creatures.
As President of the United States, the mentally feeble man, George W. Bush, has been given the power to flex his religious addicted muscles: supported challenging affirmative action, proposal to ban gay marriage, increase funding to religious groups that help alcoholics and drug addicts recover, invading and taking over Iraq, funding the promotion marriage (push women in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant, eh Georgie?)
The Christian Right seeks to oppress those who don't conform to their way of life. In order for society to evolve, Right Wing Religion must be kept out of positions of political power.
Religious addicted Mel Gibson is now a right wing fundamentalist. He believes he knows God personally, and has a whole lot of money, giving him the power to push his beliefs on the rest of us. There is nothing more dangerous than a rich right wing fundamentalist. About Mel Gibson's movie, The Passion of the Christ, Movie Reviewers and News Commentators did not have the courage to give Mel Gibson's movie a real review. It is probably like during the invasion of Iraq; people who spoke against it were intimidated, and the media was very biased toward the bullies.
Religious addiction is a serious mental illness in our society. Religious addicts, when given power, have the ability to do some serious damage to the world and its species.
Religious Addiction: a mental illness with deadly social consequences.
Endnotes:
1. Paschal Baute, Symptons of Religious Addiction http://www.lexpages.com/SGN/paschal/religious_addiction.html
2. Dr. Thomas Edgington, Characteristics of a Religious Addictive System. Nimbus.org http://www.nimbus.org/Academics/ReligiousAddiction.html
BIBLIOGRAPHY
Symptons of Religious Addiction by Paschal Baute
http://www.lexpages.com/SGN/paschal/religious_addiction.html
Retrieved April, 1st 2004
Characteristics of a Religious Addictive System. Nimbus.org
http://www.nimbus.org/Academics/ReligiousAddiction.html
Retrieved April, 1st 2004
Copyright 2004 © TrysDan Roberts
There is no issue here.
0
What was the issue again?
nm
For it - should not be an issue
It should not be an issue period. It does not affect me (or anyone else) if Joe & John or Mary & Sara want to get married. As human beings we all have that right.
Civil Union is not the same thing. Talk about discrimination big time. Yes, you love each other but sorry, your of the wrong sex?????
What's next you can only be white to be married or a black and white, hispanic and black or any other combination won't be able to marry.
This is one more issue that should not be political. People should be allowed to marry whomever they wish to and tell everyone else to mind their own business.
this is not a big issue
Your point of view has been expressed. Constant repetition only weakens your case. If you felt strongly that this was true, you would be confident that you would be proved right and not have to beat a dead horse. Be a member of polite society and consider others' time and interests before you attempt to monopolize a free forum with only your one point over and over.
This is a big issue to some of us...
and we are not just repeating ourselves. We are posting new info for others WHO CARE to read it. If you are not interested and do not care, DON'T READ IT.
Interesting post by someone on another site:
ladyplumber10:35AMDec 3rd 2008
When you have 4 different citizenships in question, American, British, Indonesian, and Kenyan, and multiple different names :Barack Obama, aka, Barry Soreto, aka Barack Dunham, aka Barry Dunham...you folks who think this is a piece of cake to wade through are nuts. It's like untangling a badly knotted necklace.
There is a great interview with Alan Keyes on why he is suing Mr Obama in the CA Sumpreme Court in Essence magazine...
http://www.essence.com/news_entertainment/news/articles/alankeyesobama
also it is known that Mr Obama's passport in 1981 at the age of 20 was Indonesian. Ever wonder WHY he has sealed all of his college records @ Columbia and Harvard...likely because he came in under Indonesian
citizenship and qulaified for foreign student grants.
For those of you who think that the certificate shown on his web site is sufficient:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=80931
PART 1
"Hawaii Revised Statute 338-178 allows registration of birth in Hawaii for a child that was born outside of Hawaii to parents who, for a year preceding the child’s birth, claimed Hawaii as their place of residence," the document said. "The only way to know where Senator Obama was actually born is to view Senator Obama's LONG LEGAL original birth certificate from 1961 that shows the name of the hospital and the name and signature of the doctor that delivered him."
(From Alan Keyes suite against the Sec of State of CA and demanding they hold back the 55 electoral votes)
For those of you who think that even if he was born to an American overseas..he is still a US Citizen...
NOT SO. for the law from 1952-1986 (Obama was born in 1961) states that to an American Citizen and one alien parent in wedlock, the American parent must have resided in the US for 5 years beyond the age of 14 (or the age of 19)Mr Obama's mother was 18 when he was born, so he wouldn't qualify.
http://travel.state.gov/law/info/info_609.html
For those of you who think that he has to have been checked out this far into the game...think again. I met with my DC House REP face to face who said that officials voted into office by the public, don't get checked out...my own rep never had been nor do US senators. The FBI doesn't get involved in political matters, and there is NO PRIOR legal precedent for a prez candidate that wants to keep his life "private". Remember Hillary was the first to challenge his citizenship...but took his short cert of live birth as his long legal birth certificate. This document is not offical enough to get him a passport. So whose job is it to approve a candidate...the candidates own party according to the FBI agent that I interviewed...can you say conflict of interest?! It is also the job of each individual sec of state. Personally, for the prez national election, I think it should be the job of the US Sec of State. Each state sec of state can certify state candidates. FOLKS-this has not resurfaced...it has never left.. but the Obama loving main stream media won't cover it, because they will wind up with egg all over their face. I think a few things are cool: one, that Alan Keyes is the one in CA suing, but no one can call the race card as he is black. Justice Clarence Thomas took the supreme court case, and again no one can call a race card. My DC rep feels that every court in the nation will find a loop hole to dismiss for fear of rioting. I told him that men are fighting and dying overseas to protect our freedoms and our constitution..why should they if we won't protect it from within? Also if the courts were afraid of rioting in the 1950s&1960s SEGREGATION might still be alive today! I would love to see a black man as prez, but not one who had to speak deceit and lies to get there. Let's NOT be in such a hurry to make history, that we are doing nothing to protect history...and to protect our constitution....
http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/12/01/obama-birth-certificate-rears-its-ugly-head-again/197#comments
That's not the issue and you know it.
Constitution baby, constitution!
Well, now that's another issue...(sm)
I would argue that the New Deal actually did help the economy, but it wasn't large enough. During the New Deal the GDP steadily grew with the exception of one period where FDR actually slacked off with his programs and instead did tax cuts. Unemployment also went down during this period. I know Fox is saying the New Deal didn't work, but the numbers don't support that theory.
See charts below:
EXACTLY!! This isn't a pub/dem issue.........
this is a BIG GOVERNMENT issue. The kind of government that thinks they own the citizens. Of course, Obama's spend spend spend plan is the most outrageous in U.S. history and that's an understatement, but both sides should be ashamed of themselves. I get so sick of seeing the democrats on this board sit idly by as if they are in the right and just point fingers at anyone they perceive as republicans. They forget.......WE ARE THE CITIZENS. I don't give a rat's butt WHO is in office.....NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO TAKE MY MONEY AND TAX THE CRAP OUT OF ITS CITIZENS. The government works for us but unfortunately too many in this country have become ignorant to that fact, either by choice or lack of proper education as to their history, constitution, and what that entails of its citizens. They feels no loyalty to this country and do not understand the government is not there to be their leader and caregiver. The government is supposed to work for us and us only, not the United Nations, not some stupid foreign country who has us in their pocket, the Americans of this country....... NOT ILLEGALS EITHER!
We have gotten so far away from the meaning of our constitution; it's not taught in our schools....should we be surprised. After all,our schools are bought and paid for by the government you pay for without any say in the school system, and a bunch of one-sided thinking lamebrains decide the curriculum, so what better than to destroy the constitution so the children never understand anything about loyalty or pride for their country. Instead, they grow up thinking their government is the be all and end all of their lives and without that, we would be nobodies. PLEEZE!!!!
For all those that continue to point at Bush.....HE'S GONE FOLKS!! GET OVER IT! NOW YOU CAN START POINTING FINGERS AT OBAMA!! He's spending and making fake money as fast as he can light up another cigarette.
Obama has no excuse for this disaster he is putting us in.
The reason the majority do not speak up against their tyranical government is because they have become so complacent and when you think about all those who stand or think they stand to come out ahead with this government, they have no problem with sitting back and letting it happen. The day we stop letting illegals vote and special interest groups run this country, we might actually get our country back but that's won't happen until our complacent LEGAL citizens get off their duffs and actually stand up for their country.
Most don't even care and that's what the government is betting on......everyone's lack of education (government schools!) or interest.
The issue is
that men shouldn't be marrying men and women shouldn't be marrying women. The parts don't fit together and it's immoral. Giving them that special "right" will take away the rights of those who believe this behavior is immoral and the right to say so. They should have NEVER been given such a ludicrous "right." And the religious community will keep fighting to right wrongs. :-)
The Rove issue
From the Christian Science monitor online-- an interesting commentary on the Rove issue.
(I note per the Conservative board that Mr. Wilson is now being vilified.)
|
from the July 15, 2005 edition - http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0715/p09s02-cods.html
Rove leak is just part of larger scandalBy Daniel Schorr
WASHINGTON - Let me remind you that the underlying issue in the Karl Rove controversy is not a leak, but a war and how America was misled into that war.
In 2002 President Bush, having decided to invade Iraq, was casting about for a casus belli. The weapons of mass destruction theme was not yielding very much until a dubious Italian intelligence report, based partly on forged documents (it later turned out), provided reason to speculate that Iraq might be trying to buy so-called yellowcake uranium from the African country of Niger. It did not seem to matter that the CIA advised that the Italian information was "fragmentary and lacked detail."
Prodded by Vice President Dick Cheney and in the hope of getting more conclusive information, the CIA sent Joseph Wilson, an old Africa hand, to Niger to investigate. Mr. Wilson spent eight days talking to everyone in Niger possibly involved and came back to report no sign of an Iraqi bid for uranium and, anyway, Niger's uranium was committed to other countries for many years to come.
No news is bad news for an administration gearing up for war. Ignoring Wilson's report, Cheney talked on TV about Iraq's nuclear potential. And the president himself, in his 2003 State of the Union address no less, pronounced: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."
Wilson declined to maintain a discreet silence. He told various people that the president was at least mistaken, at most telling an untruth. Finally Wilson directly challenged the administration with a July 6, 2003 New York Times op-ed headlined, "What I didn't find in Africa," and making clear his belief that the president deliberately manipulated intelligence in order to justify an invasion.
One can imagine the fury in the White House. We now know from the e-mail traffic of Time's correspondent Matt Cooper that five days after the op-ed appeared, he advised his bureau chief of a supersecret conversation with Karl Rove who alerted him to the fact that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA and may have recommended him for the Niger assignment. Three days later, Bob Novak's column appeared giving Wilson's wife's name, Valerie Plame, and the fact she was an undercover CIA officer. Mr. Novak has yet to say, in public, whether Mr. Rove was his source. Enough is known to surmise that the leaks of Rove, or others deputized by him, amounted to retaliation against someone who had the temerity to challenge the president of the United States when he was striving to find some plausible reason for invading Iraq.
The role of Rove and associates added up to a small incident in a very large scandal - the effort to delude America into thinking it faced a threat dire enough to justify a war.
• Daniel Schorr is the senior news analyst at National Public Radio. |
Why won't you debate the issue
because you can't back up what you are saying, I assume. You just point fingers and call names like that's winning a debate.
It is really a much larger issue than you think. sm
There are 12,000 New York City resident signatures, as well as 15 NY legislators on this petion alone:
Preamble to the Complaint and Petition
We, the complainant signatories below, petition the Attorney General of New York, on behalf of millions of New Yorkers who also call for a fearless independent inquiry; for the sake of residents, workers, and business owners in New York—most particularly in and near Ground Zero; and also on behalf of other Americans who have lost employees, friends, and family members as well as health, business, and personal assets and civil, privacy, and other rights in the events of September 11, 2001 and their aftermath.
We approach your office as concerned citizens desiring to bring to light the truth about the events of 9/11. And where fault and liability may be found through your investigative action (by whatever means), we seek the recovery of billions of dollars of damages that have been sustained and continue to accrue, and a process by which the true perpetrators and aiders and abettors of the 9/11 attacks may speedily be brought to justice.
As we reported previously to your office, a representative poll published by Zogby International on August 30 of this year found that 49 percent of New York City residents and 41 percent of New Yorkers overall believe there was official foreknowledge and conscious acceptance of the 9/11 attacks, and that 66 percent of city residents and 56 percent overall want a new investigation. These findings are stunning and we believe they provide conclusive evidence that the people of New York are not satisfied that official investigations and mainstream news media have adequately addressed the truth of the events of that fateful day.
These Zogby Poll findings point to the immediate consituency for our Complaint and Petition; but we also note here that a burgeoning nationwide movement also holds to the same belief about 9/11 as do these native New Yorkers. Fifteen legislators who are members from New York in the US House of Representatives, New York State Senate and Assembly, and New York City Council have responded to these results by also expressing support for a new investigation by the Attorney General or Congress.
If this belief of millions of citizens is borne out by a legitimate investigation, then it may follow that the responsible officials are guilty of both mass murder and treason, as well as conspiring to inflict untold suffering upon the people of New York and violating a host of New York State laws, in addition to federal terrorist, treason, and other laws.
Clearly, this Complaint and Petition concerns a supremely serious matter. Yet we the complainants contend that no independent official investigation into these alarming yet plausible allegations, for which we present compelling evidence herein, has ever been held or is now contemplated.
When citizens of New York widely suspect appalling criminal activity within our government and by bad actors doing business in the State of New York—activity that has caused us grievous harm—we believe we are well within our rights as sovereign citizens to demand the legal and investigative means to address these concerns. If indeed there exists such a widespread belief that our own government intentionally allowed such a catastrophe to occur on our own shores, then we submit that this is prima facie evidence of a deep crisis of trust in government. We were therefore inspired to read the Attorney General‘s 2002 Law Day address in regard to this issue of restoring public trust in our institutions. You focused then on financial markets, charities, and churches, but we believe your words aptly address the collapse of faith in government that the 9/11 Zogby Poll reveals today:
It is important that we understand that this crisis exists, that it has already damaged important institutions, and that we must take immediate action to restore the faith of a betrayed public…The process of restoring a shattered trust is a lengthy one. Unfortunately, we do not have time to wait…Too much will be lost during the time that this process naturally unfolds; the skepticism and distrust that exists will continue to exact a tremendous cost…Our system of law can provide—indeed, can itself be—the solution to the crisis created by the betrayal of their trust. [2]
And it is precisely in this same spirit—that of invoking the legitimacy of a lawful solution to the issue of 9/11—that we request your intervention in order to swiftly address the grave concerns outlined below, enforce accountability, and restore the public trust.
As Attorney General, you hold ultimate responsibility for enforcing public safety, criminal, and investor protection laws in the State of New York. As indicated in the Zogby Poll, a clear majority of your constituents desires a full investigation of still unanswered questions either by Congress or your office. We provide herein evidence to prove that Congress and the 9/11 Commission have shown themselves incapable of such an inquiry. We are left with no alternative but to turn to you to take up the case we have put forth in this Complaint and Petition.
We therefore respectfully request that you immediately invoke your powers to open one or more urgent investigations into apparent crimes before, during, and after September 11, 2001. This could be accomplished by your office alone or in conjunction with other state and local legal and enforcement offices with jurisdiction (which might include, for example, other state attorneys general and the Office of the Manhattan District Attorney, Robert Morgenthau).
We firmly believe that we are able to show probable cause for convening a grand jury and that we present herein the necessary facts and lines of inquiry that would lead reasonable persons to believe that numerous still-unsolved crimes have taken place.
In this Complaint and Petition, we submit compelling evidence constituting probable cause that some or all of the following crimes and possible additional crimes have been committed and that you have jurisdiction and prosecutorial discretion to investigate and prosecute the perpetrators of such crimes: murder, criminally negligent homicide or manslaughter; assault; reckless endangerment; official misconduct; criminal offenses relating to public safety; enterprise corruption; obstruction of justice and the infliction of emotional distress, including causing untold suffering and billions of dollars in damages on the citizens, businesses, and institutions of and upon the State of New York itself and cities, counties, and other jurisdictions within New York; and the criminal facilitation or solicitation thereof and conspiracy or accessorial conduct in connection therewith.
In summary, we submit that available evidence demonstrates that the requisite state of mind exists, pointing to (1) negligence as would be appropriate for assigning civil liability, and (2) an intentional, knowing, or reckless state of mind as would be required for assigning criminal liability.
You are making it an issue
You are trying to defend Merv Griffin when no one said anything bad about him or that he was not a conservative. All that was stated was what he commented about the vote, nothing more or less. You are reading much more into it than I ever intended. Dont waste your time looking up more information about Merv, who cares? His comment is what his comment was. Goodness, LOL. Dustin Hoffman also made a comment on Letterman that the democrats taking over the House and Senate was a historic day. It was a comment nothing more. I must state, though, that the audience also clapped, whistled, cheered when Dustin said that.
We will never agree on this issue.
I think all children deserve free or at least affordable health care right now. I think that should be this country's #1 priority, and sadly, it is not. I don't care what facts you throw at me, the truth is many children are going without health insurance because many families have to choose between buying groceries and paying the enormous premiums, and sometimes you just have to choose what is most important to survive right now.
I'm disgusted every time someone has to have a fundraiser when their kid gets cancer just to pay the medical bills. I'm disgusted that families lose their houses every day because they have to sell them to pay off medical bills. This bill may not have solved all of those problems, but it would have been a step in the right direction.
So go ahead and spout your pro-life "every baby deserves a chance to live" speeches, and then when that same child gets diabetes and can't afford healthcare, go ahead and look away and act like that child no longer matters.
Why is gay marriage an issue?
Can someone explain to me why gay marriage is an issue in politics? I don't think it's ever been explained. I have heard the religious people say they want to keep the sanctity of marriage preserved to be between a man and a woman, and I can understand that. On the other side, I've heard gays and lesbians say that they've lived their lives with another person who happens to be the same sex as they are and they just want to be able to have the same rights as married people if something should happen to their partner, and I certainly do understand that too. I guess I don't understand why it is a political issue. To me if John and Jack or Mary and Sue want to get married that doesn't affect what I do with my life on a day to day basis or how I live my own life (at least I don't think it would have an impact). So just wanted to know why I'm always hearing this issue during campaigns. - Thanks.
You are the one making an issue (sm)
out of his middle name. So what if someone posts his middle name? What do YOU have to be worried about? It appears that she cut and pasted an article written by someone else. Had you not written a huge post about the name *Hussein,* many would not have even given it a second thought.
It would not be an issue if he had not made it one. nm
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Experience issue will not go away soon.
Whether or not a candidate is "ready" to lead is the voter's prerogative to investigate...or not. I hate nasty politics too and often will turn a blind eye to it. On the other hand, checking into it from time to time does give one a better perspective on just how divided our country has become and what issues flames the fires of discontent the most. Voters also decide whether malcontents should be left to stew in their own juices or if they are addressing legitimate, common concerns in an inappropriate manner that require attention from our highest leadership.
Beyond that, judgments must be made as to which candidate, party, issues, policies, etc. best represent not only the individual's best interests and their vision of what America is or is not, but also the best interest of the nation as a whole...another purely subjective and biased concept, depending on who you talk to. It's the nature of the beast.
What I believe about research is that it is much more valuable as a process, rather than a final destination. If one is able to come out of their comfort zone and expose themselves to many sides of the same issue, it is their own reactions and gut instincts that will help them better identify, define, prioritize, express and embody their own personal political beliefs. If the objective of research is a drive-by pot shot, the insight gained will be as fleeting and as memorable as chat room archives.
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