Iraqi death toll....sm
Posted By: Democrat on 2005-10-31
In Reply to:
See link for full article below.
*According to the graph, Iraqi civilians and security forces were killed and wounded by insurgents at a rate of about 26 a day early in 2004, and at a rate of about 40 a day later that year. The rate increased in 2005 to about 51 a day, and by the end of August had jumped to about 63 a day.
Extrapolating the daily averages over the months from Jan. 1, 2004, to Sept. 16 of this year results in a total of 25,902 Iraqi civilians and security forces killed and wounded by insurgents.*
LINK/URL: Iraqi death toll
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The one, single thing that took the worst toll on US
nm
the death of Wall Street is the death of the USA...you really want that????? nm
Oh, I feel you. I don't know which is better for the Iraqi's, b/c what is usually reported is sm
the military casualties, not the civilian casualties in Iraq.
Fox News did report this week about a military man whose family was murdered, wife and children while he was out working. That's awful, that's terror. When I hear stories like that I do think of the terror the people are experiencing due to this war, but they did have it bad under Sadaam. They're in a catch 22.
Detained Iraqi children
Okay, this is about as disturbing as it gets. I came across this thread on the Democratic Underground website:
Source: AFP
Agence France-Presse
BAGHDAD -- US troops are holding nearly 950 children and teenagers in a military prison at a Baghdad base, some as young as 10, a top commander said Monday.
Brigadier General Michael Nevin of US military police said many of these youngsters, mainly 15, 16 or 17 years of age are illiterate and have been detained for planting bombs and even for "picking up a gun and firefighting."
...
"These juveniles have been involved in something that is perceived as a security threat to Iraq or coalition forces," Nevin told Agence France-Presse during a tour of Camp Cropper.
...
"In January we had around 100 juveniles. Now we have around 950," Nevin said.
...
One of the commanders at Camp Cropper, Lieutenant Colonel Malcolm McMullen, said the juveniles were now part of a wide-ranging educational program launched by the military.
"Many of them come from broken homes with no education," he said.
So, curious as to what type of educational program launched by the military, as I thought it funny this little tibit of information was left out, I came across this:
http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2007/11/10/9066.shtml
I think we need to dig further.
Obama and Iraqi oil for food...
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/03/obamas_iraqi_oil_for_food_conn.html
The Iraqi war has further destabilized the middle east. It has....sm
But obviously you don't think so so tell us how it has helepd to stabilize the region?
A blog by an Iraqi about his homeland and Democracy. sm
I read this every day until he stopped posting. It's very informative and not something seen in the MSM. There are other links there that are still active.
This is my first time hearing protestors against the Iraqi war...sm
getting soldiers killed??
This is not Vietnam. We are not trying to stop communism from spreading (not that I would have agreed with that then). This is supposedly to stop WMD, then to spread democracy to the Iraqi people, and now because there was a connection to al Queda.
The loss of live was tremendous in Vietnam compared to the Iraqi war. If we had lost the number of troops we did in Vietnam, I would be in Washington sitting on the lawn myself.
Not sure this answered your question, you have to explain your question further??
Iraqi terrorist training camps?
Links between Saddam's regime and al-Qaeda, as claimed by the Bush Administration (which formed a crucial part of the WMD justification for the Iraq invasion), were non-existent or exaggerated, according to the report of both the United States Government's 9/11 Commission and the Pentagon. There was never any real proof of training camps in Iraq. As far as terrorists having been in Iraq at one time or another....it's a middle eastern country.....they were way down toward the bottom of the list of terrorist hang-outs.
Iraqi Soldiers Speak Out in Favor of Murtha
On January 5, 2006, Congressman Murtha held a town hall meeting with Cong. Jim Moran (D-VA 08).
The soldier who asked the first question served in Afghanistan and said that morale among troops is high and that he would gladly serve in Iraq today. His comment was the only one replayed by Fox News the next day.
But the majority of soldiers in attendance spoke out against the current policy. Fox News did not broadcast their remarks.
Here are some excerpts.
John Brumes, Infantry Sgt. US Army:
Everything that the Bush Adminstration told us about that mission in Iraq is absolutely incorrect. Furthermore, I'd like to say ... I came home to no job, no health insurance. Until we take care of this war, we can't take care of the problems that matter like health care.
I've witnessed both ends... Congressman Murtha, I implore you to keep doing what you're doing.
John Powers, Capt. 1st Armored Division, served 12 months in Iraq:
The thing that hits me the most is the accountability. ... Where is the accountability for those men [who took us to war], as well as where is the accountability for Paul Bremmer, who misplaced millions of dollars and claims to keep accountability in the war zone?... I know that if we lost $500 we would be court marshaled. So where is the accountability for this leadership?
Garin Reppenhagen, served as a sniper in Iraq for a year in the First Infantry Division:
My question is also about accountability. The soldiers that you see, Congressman Murtha, at the hospitals... those are my friends. After coming back, being a veteran, my question is why? Why did we go to this war, why the hell did it happen, why are we in this condition. A lot of soldiers are debating whether this war was fraudulent to begin with. And there doesn't seem to be a clear answer. A lot of Americans now are debating the fact over whether or not the war was fraudulent in the first place. How come there hasn't been an investigation on the fraudulent lead up to the war by this Administration?
C-SPAN has the full broadcast here.
Iraqi Colleagues Killed U.S. Soldiers, Military Says
And 19 Republican senators and a conservative poster crashing this this board think that monsters like this should receive amnesty for killing our soldiers. Unbelievable.
Iraqi colleagues killed U.S. soldiers, military says
SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- Two California soldiers shot to death in Iraq were murdered by Iraqi civil-defense officers patrolling with them, military investigators have found.
The deaths of Army Spc. Patrick R. McCaffrey Sr. and 1st Lt. Andre D. Tyson were originally attributed to an ambush during a patrol near Balad, Iraq, on June 22, 2004.
But the Army's Criminal Investigation Command found that one or more of the Iraqis attached to the American soldiers on patrol fired at them, a military official said Tuesday. (Watch a mother's quest for truth -- 1:26)
A Pentagon spokesman knew of no other similar incident, calling it extremely rare.
The Army has conducted an extensive investigation into the deaths but declined to provide details out of respect for relatives of the soldiers, spokesman Paul Boyce said Tuesday evening.
It was unclear whether the investigators had established a motive or arrested any suspects.
The families of McCaffrey and Tyson were to be briefed on the report's conclusions Tuesday and Wednesday by Brig. Gen. Oscar Hilman, the soldiers' commander at the time, and three other officers.
When they come I have my list of questions ready, and I want these answers and I don't want lies, McCaffrey's mother, Nadia McCaffrey, said.
Soldiers who witnessed the attack have told her that two Iraqi patrolmen opened fire on her son's unit. The witnesses also said a third gunman simultaneously drove up to the American unit in a van, climbed onto the vehicle and fired at the Americans, she said.
Nothing is clear. Nothing is clear, she said. Her son was shot eight times by bullets of various calibers, some of which penetrated his body armor, she said. She believes he bled to death.
Nadia McCaffrey has become a vocal critic of the war in Iraq, and said her son had reservations about it, too, though he served well and was promoted posthumously to sergeant.
I really want this story to come out; I want people to know what happened to my son, she said. There is no doubt to me that this (ambushes by attached Iraqi units) is still happening to soldiers today, but our chain of command is awfully reckless; they don't seem to give a damn about what's happening to soldiers.
Iraqi forces who had trained with the Americans had fired at them twice before the incident that killed Patrick McCaffrey, and he had reported it to his superiors, she said.
Boyce said the U.S. military remained confident in its operations with Iraqis.
We continue to have confidence in our operations with Iraqi soldiers and have witnessed the evolution of a stronger fighting army for the Iraqi people, he said.
Patrick McCaffrey joined the National Guard the day after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, his mother said.
Tyson's family could not be located, and a message left with his former unit was not immediately returned.
McCaffrey, 34, and Tyson, 33, were members of the California National Guard. Both were assigned to the Army National Guard's 579th Engineer Battalion, based in Petaluma.
Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-California, pressed the Pentagon for answers about the case when Nadia McCaffrey was unsatisfied by explanations from the military.
Mrs. McCaffrey is set to receive a briefing from Pentagon officials (Wednesday) afternoon in California, during which we hope they will provide her with a full report of the facts surrounding Sgt. McCaffrey's death, said Natalie Ravitz, a Boxer spokeswoman.
Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. |
|
Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/06/21/soldiers.ambushed.ap/index.html |
|
Raped Iraqi woman feared US troops...sm
I don't usually post reports of the bad side of US soldiers in Iraq because I believe the most of them are doing their jobs with integrity, so even after reading this it is still hard to believe. Thanks to the brave soldiers who spoke out against their comrades. This story reminds me of some of the bad stories I've heard of Vietnam.
Please somebody say it aint so...
------------------------------------------
Raped Iraqi woman feared US troops: report
Mon Jul 3, 2006 07:06 AM ET
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A woman apparently at the center of a rape-murder probe by the U.S. military in Iraq was only 15 and voiced fears about soldiers' advances before she and her family were killed in March, the Washington Post said on Monday.
Quoting the mayor of Mahmudiya, near Baghdad, an unnamed hospital official and neighbors of the alleged victims, the newspaper named the woman, her parents and 7-year-old sister as having been killed in their home in the town on March 11.
The paper did not affirm the woman, Abeer Qasim Hamza, was killed by Americans, but local people quoted appeared to believe the dead family was the one involved in the U.S. investigation.
A U.S. military official in Baghdad told Reuters details of the incident they described were at odds with U.S. documents in the 10-day-old investigation of at least three soldiers. U.S. officials had the rape victim's age as 20, he said. However, he added, he was not aware of any other such cases in the area.
The U.S. military has given few details publicly. Officials say at least three soldiers are under investigation over the alleged rape of a woman and the killing of three relatives, including a child, in their home at Mahmudiya on March 12.
Two are suspected of rape and one of these, since discharged from the army, is also suspected of murder, officials said.
The Washington Post quoted Omar Janabi, who said he was a neighbor, saying Abeer Qasim's mother had told him on March 10 that the young woman had complained repeatedly about advances made toward her by U.S. soldiers at a nearby checkpoint.
Janabi told the newspaper he was one of the first people to arrive at the family house after the attack. He said he found Abeer sprawled dead in a corner, her hair and a pillow next to her consumed by fire, and her dress pushed up to her neck.
DEATH CERTIFICATES
The paper said death certificates from Mahmudiya hospital identified the victims as Abeer Qasim Hamza, 15, shot in the head and burned; her mother Fakhriyah Taha Muhsin, 34, killed by gunshots to her head; her father Qasim Hamza Raheem, 45, whose head was smashed by bullets; and Hadeel Qasim Hamza, 7.
The inquiry was launched after two soldiers from the 502nd Infantry Regiment came forward last month to make allegations about comrades. The killings had previously been recorded by the military as the work of guerrillas, U.S. officers say.
Local residents and officials in the area, one of the most dangerous and violent in Iraq, have offered Reuters reporters conflicting accounts of incidents involving U.S. troops.
Two years after the scandal over U.S. prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib jail and coming after a string of murder charges against U.S. troops and accusations over the killing of 24 people in the western city of Haditha, the rape allegation is potentially incendiary in Iraq's conservative Muslim society.
Iraq's main organization of Sunni Muslim clerics, long hostile to the U.S. occupation, said on Sunday the Mahmudiya case revealed the real, ugly face of America.
In recent months, officials say, commanders have cracked down on rogue soldiers in a bid to gain the trust of ordinary Iraqis and of their new government after three years of growing resentment that U.S. officers say risks fuelling the insurgency.
Iraqi PM says Reckles soldiers should stay home.
So much for all that *winning their hearts and minds* talk. 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060706/wl_nm/iraq_maliki_dc_2
Reckless soldiers should stay home: Iraqi PM
By Ibon Villelabeitia
Thu Jul 6, 1:41 PM ET
Iraq's prime minister urged the U.S. military on Thursday to keep reckless troops from serving in Iraq in order to prevent abuses like the alleged rape and murder of a teenager and her family by U.S. soldiers in March.
Expanding on calls for an independent inquiry and a review of foreign troops' immunity from Iraqi law, Nuri al-Maliki said commanders should do a better job in preparing their soldiers.
There needs to be a plan to educate and train soldiers, and those who are brought to serve in Iraq shouldn't bear prejudices nor be reckless toward people's honor, Maliki said.
The U.S. military is investigating a group of its soldiers over the rape and killing of a family of four in Mahmudiya, south of the capital, in a case that has strained relations between Washington and Baghdad.
Former private Steven Green, 21, has been charged with rape and murder in a U.S. federal court. He had been discharged from the army because of a personality disorder before the case came to light.
At least three other soldiers are being investigated in the case.
The Mahmudiya incident and other incidents before that ... produce sadness, pain and condemnation from Iraqis, Maliki said.
IMMUNITY
Maliki, facing pressure from Shi'ites and Sunnis to hold Americans accountable, has slammed a U.S. occupation authority decree that grants immunity from Iraqi law for the 140,000 or so foreign troops in Iraq, saying it emboldens soldiers.
I think this matter has become necessary to review and solve, either by reviewing the issue of immunity or reviewing the nature of the investigating committees, he told reporters in Baghdad, a day after he first called for a review of the law.
The rape and murder case is the fifth in a high-profile series of U.S. inquiries into killings of Iraqi civilians in recent months and has outraged Iraqis.
American commanders, keen to repair the military's tarnished image after three years of complaints from Iraqis that U.S. abuses go unpunished, pressed murder charges against 12 military personnel last month. Marines are under investigation for the killing of 24 unarmed Iraqi civilians in the town of Haditha.
Iraqis have complained of Americans' lack of cultural sensitivity -- including searching women's rooms during raids or not taking their boots off when entering. Commanders say they are improving such procedures.
Though heavily dependent on America's military muscle, Maliki faces delicate negotiations with its main ally Washington over how to regulate the presence of the U.S.-led forces in Iraq, now under a U.N. mandate that expires in December.
Copyright © 2006 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon.
Copyright © 2006 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
|
Where was the concern of anyone when Saddam was killing the Iraqi people?
I must say, this is one of the most egregious of all arguments that is made in this country, or any country. Saddam tortured, killed, maimed and raped his own people for decades and not a word was said. Now with a chance for a free Iraq, this concern surfaces. Where was it all these years?
Afghanistan - war on Al Quaeda and Taliban; Iraqi FREEDOM - kill Saddam Hussein
Two different wars based on entirely different premises.........
yep....and tax everyone to death
for it like the Europeans do. We are over taxed enough as it is, and to me over taxation is slavery. I don't expect anyone to be forced to take care of my medical bills, so why do you think I should be forced to take care of yours? I voluntarily tithe to my church...nobody beats me over the head every Sunday and makes me do it. I do it out of a spirit of giving. God doesn't make me do it, so why should the government?
One reason drug prices are so high in America is because of litigation. People want drugs here, but if there's an ill side effect or someone falls over dead....let the suing begin!!! We are a country of wusses and victims, and then we wonder why we pay so much at the counter, because all the costs of lawyers and endless studies just to try and keep litigation at bay
If we would get over our selfish wussification then life would be so much more bearable for all. We would take care of our sick and elderly like God directed us to do in the Bible and our world would be a much better place, but I don't see selfishness ending anytime soon not as long as people think someone else should go to work for them when they are capable working and then pay their medical bills to boot.
sick to death
And..in the midst of all this chaos, when IMHO, no one should feel like partying, vacationing..we should be worrying and doing whatever we can..but in the midst..where is Condoleezza? Why, on a two day vacation in NYC, taking in Spamalot, the broadway show..chuckling it up, while New Orleans burns and people die. A witness said people were shocked to see her enjoying herself at the theatre when parts of her country are descending into madness. Then she went to Ferragammo (spell?) and was buying shoes for a few thousand dollars. Someone walked up to her and started telling her off, about how could she party when America is in such pain. She called security over and had the woman evicted..such is how OUR SERVANTS act, like they are king and queen. I mean, come on, even if you couldnt care less about what is going down, show a little respect and stay home until this is under control..FEMA should have gotten planes and aid out the very next morning to the gulf region, Bush knew this was gonna be a bad storm..he could have had the planes loaded up and waiting for the next morning after the storm..but, as is usual with this administration, Bush and his cohorts wait until chaos, as in Iraq, and then he acts but then it is too late. Well, the other day I posted how one day the masses will have their backs up against the wall and American politicians will have to create programs and help them..I see a minor version of what I was posting about..and, like that song says..*when you aint got nothing, you got nothing to lose*. This is an extremely dire situation..If the people in the gulf region dont calm down and get things under control on their own, the police and other authorities will not be able to, unless they shoot them all..and that will put blood on their hands and Bush's hands for not acting fast enough to show these poor people, that the govt cares..I am sick to my stomach over the evolving situation.Bush's approval is at 46%, just wait it will be even lower next time a poll is taken..
The Death of Outrage.
Ever read it? Great book. Bill Bennett wrote it. It's very applicable to certain people. You might not like it. Well, anyway, what Bennett was doing (and he explained it) is what you would do in a hypothetical philosophical discussion.
I'll use a silly example: Suppose we were in the Star Wars galaxy, both former senators, sitting at a posh club on Coroscant drinking jin-jin juice. You happened to remark to me, You know, I hear it has been said in the Outer Rim that if we killed all the Jedi babies, there would be less mind control instances. Now, some ditz from the Tatooine Times-Picayune records us secretly and has it on MSNBCABCCBSNBCFOX channel on the Galactic Network. Except, they only playback this part,if we killed all the Jedi babies, there would be less mind control instances. Would you still say it was stupid, ill-conceived of yourself to say that? Bennett was alluding, of course, to Freakanomics, and if you don't know what that is, then you have no business even discussing this subject at all. But if you DID know what that was, and you were of a mind to say, he should have mentioned Freakanomics often during the conversation, then I would ask you this. Do you constantly say over and over in each sentence in a conversation any reference you are alluding to in a discussion? Oh, I know how very bad many here want to portray Bill as a racist. But he isn't. Not that the truth will matter one iota to you. Remember that stupid remark your HERO Bill Maher made on his show that got him yanked off the air? Remember, he called Clinton a coward and the terrorists heroes. He wasn't really serious, he was just kind of throwing it out there, but GOSH OH GOLLY people took him seriously and POOF he was gone. He's back, which is unfortunate, but I know how much you like him. See, sometimes people say things in ways you really have to dig for the meaning. I will give you that Bennett could have said what he said differently. Hyperbole is wasted on people with concrete thinking (all Republicans are rich, The Democrats are the party of the poor). What I WON'T GIVE YOU is that Bennett is a racist. Because he isn't.
So are you against the death penalty? sm
B/c I agree that only in rare cases should the death penalty be used, i.e., mass murderers and serial killers, people who harm children, etc.
But yes, I was rationalizing. I would expect that in a state where the death penalty is legal the governer must rationalize when making decisions regarding clemancy (sp).
I am against the death penalty. SM
I didn't use to be, but I am against it now. I do know that certain kinds of criminals, rapists, child molesters, have a high rate of recidivism. They just cannot be rehabilitated. I think they should be locked away and never let out.
*Death squad?*???
What have you and your professor friend been smoking?! Where do you think we learned the word jihad oh scholarly one? We learned it from the terrorists. Perhaps you and your professor friend should hold classes for THEM so that THEY understand what jihad really means. As far as stereotypes...you can talk until you are blue in the face. When Muslims stand up and start denouncing what is being done in the name of Islam and are instrumental in trying to stop it, I will be much more interested in what they have to say. And if 5 foot tall red headed Texans start flying planes into buildings and blowing people up in the name of the 5 foot red headed texas gods, you can darn well bet I will be suspicious of 5 foot red headed Texans! Sheesh. You are UNBELIEVABLE.
Sick to death of it all.......
Is anyone else just really tired of this election and all the crap that goes along with it? I'm so sick and tired of political parties. I'm tired of the families of the candidates being targets. I'm tired of the mud flinging. I think I'm going to take a break from all the political hoopla.
I am not for the death penalty
I think the only way a person should die is when it is their time, not by any other person's decision. I do think the jails/prisons these days give way too many perks though.
Death penalty
I think when someone commits a henious crime, such as raping and killing a child, they have forfeited their right to life. That's just my opinion.
Exactly right. Same with the death penalty.
What is most horrendous to me is that one might kill an innocent human being.
Is anyone else sick to death of
both pubs and crats. They both lie. They both try to pull quick ones by pointing out what the other party did so they can do something while no one is paying attention. Our government as a whole makes me sick. I'm truly sick and tired of hearing the bickering back and forth by the two parties. I truly feel like neither party gives a rat's behind about us. They are all about doing what they want.
SPARE ME TO DEATH!! This has NOTHING
This problem has been around a LONG, LONG time - quit trying to blame Obama for THAT too!
UNFREAKINBELIEVABLE....
The wish of death posts happened
however, the moderator deleted them very quickly. Conservatives are being attacked with no mercy on the C-board. These people post nothing that has to do with the subject matter posted but go straight for the jugular. You are incorrect when you say it isn't personal, because it is extremely personal at times. One long term poster was stalked and threatened by e-mail back when posting an e-mail link was an option. I think you are as free as anyone to post your feelings and beliefs on any board, but when those posts become personally hateful, threatening, or wishing someone death or extreme ill will then that poster be it conservative or liberal needs to go. Recently, the most hateful posts have happened on the C-board. The moderator has said over and over "no bashing", but they still continue to do it. What do you expect the moderator/administrator to do?
Not that I wish you to leave, but If you don't feel comfortable posting here you certainly don't have to stay. There might be a forum where you would feel more comfortable and better fits your posting style. Again, this is a privately owned board, and the administrator is free to discern anyway he/she wants. However, I think the administrator would agree EVERYONE needs to play by the rules.
JFK speech 10 days before his death. sm
Please take 5 minutes to listen to this. It gave me chills. He truly was a visionary and what a great loss to America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlEqtaWpKEU&search=JFK%20on%20Secret..
Death squad on this board....
what *spurious ultra-left wing* crap, Teddy! The more appropriate way to use the term death squad is in reference to: the Achille Lauro squad, the Beirut Marine barracks squad, the first WTC squad, the African embassy bombings squad, the Cole squad, the 9-11 squad...THOSE are DEATH squads. How many THOUSAND lives were lost? Actually dead, Teddy, D-E-A-D. THAT is what a DEATH squad is. For you to like the American military to a *death squad* is tantamount to treason as far as I am concerned. You tell ME how you are going to *negotiate* with those people? *hawk extremist war?* Helloooo....we were ATTACKED and nearly 3000 people killed in just ONE of the attacks I listed above. ALL carried out by radical Muslims. Not a one carried out by anything OTHER than a radical Muslim. Maybe being attacked like that does not make the attacker an enemy in your books, but it certainly does in mine.
As I said to Lurker and I will say to you, that as long as there are, in your words, *other people fighting and dying for you,* to protect your right to come on any board, stand on any street corner, and shout your *spurious ultra left wing canned rhetoric,* hopefully you will never have to know what it is not to HAVE that right. Because whether you want to pull head out of your liberal alternate reality and into the real world or not, THAT is why you have that right. Because men and women over hundreds of years have fought and died to get that right and preserve it. And as long as Americans like us, the so-called *hawk extremists* ARE willing to fight to retain that, not just for ourselves but for you too, you will retain that freedom you so covet to blast us with.
You're welcome.
this poster advocating death of
a political opponent. Moderator should be involved here.
You people are scared to death of her.
nm
Welfare and the near death experience
I studied social work and worked at children services. Welfare amounts to $115 a month for an adult which said adult has to work 40 hours for (at least in my state - Ohio). If you have small children - you do not have to work the 40 hours until they are in school. You do get food stamps. Some live in "projects" with reduced rent. You might qualify for home heating assistance in the winter (most times it will not cover the entire bill). If you get on a percentage of income plan on your electric - you still have to pay the whole bill at some point in time - it just keeps adding up. Welfare accounts for less than 15% of the income taxes we pay, politicians would like you to think it is a lot more. Welfare is no picnic - it sux. The mentally ill who are homeless cannot collect any type of benefits as they have no address (smart guy, that Reagan). If we wish to be a "community" then we must extend a helping hand to those who are less unfortunate than the rest of us.
A high-profile, corporate take-over attorney had the good life and was ruthless in his job and did it very well. Every day he had to step over this wino lying on a heat vent on the sidewalk when he walked to his office. He despised that wino. Freakin' bum. One day that attorney had a massive heart attack. He almost didn't make it. He claimed to have had a near death experience in which he was told by Jesus that the bum he stepped over every day had chosen that as his lot in life before birth so as to teach the attorney some humility and compassion. The attorney never forgot this "dream" when he recovered from his heart attack. He devoted the rest of his life advocating for the poor and walked away from all the trappings of his "elitist" life. True story - cannot validate it at this moment.
Are you for the death penalty, for the bombing sm
in Iraq or anywhere else that collaterally kills innocent men, women and children?
I am curious if either of you believe in the death penalty
It is still murder but of a (hopefully) guilty person.
Oh brother - president of death???? please
Because our president believes in a woman's right to choose you call him a president of death??????? Because he's fighting so that children themselves who get pregnant and not emotionally or physically or financially able to have a baby don't have to have one you say he's a president of death?????
Your other post was religious oriented, hence with all the talk of God and how we're all doomed and are going to he!! that belonged on the faith board.
Our president is not a president of death. We have a president who is on the side of a woman being able to choose.
Obama does not want to "murder" babies. You really need to get your facts straight before proclaiming something that is incorrect. You may disagree (as I do about some of his policies - who doesn't), but to say the things you are saying is outrageous and bordering on lunacy.
Obama does not want babies murdered and he certainly is not a president of death. You are certainly the one who is misinformed (not uninformed).
If you want to protest taxes, health care, the spending bill, foreclosures of homes, loss of jobs, etc, that's one thing, but abortion is a religious viewpoint and by your posts professing to know that Jesus is alive/here (or however exactly you said that) and god this and god that and you'll be praying for all of us, etc. That is a topic for the faith board so take it there.
and I am sick to death of the media sm
targeting Christians and Christian groups. I don't see how a Bible study is inconveniencing anyone! If folks block your drive that is another matter. Then they should be asked to move, park elsewhere whatever. But a Bible study group is not inconveniencing you or anyone else.
I would rather have a Bible study group next door to me than what some neighbors have to put up with.
Where does this stop? Like I said before, if someone wants to have just 12 people for example, then that is ok? You can't do anything about that. Where is the limit going to stop? I'll tell you where, when society has banned Christian gatherings altogether! That is when it will stop. This is nothing but a serious effort to persecute Christians and I don't care what you think about it.
Obey the law??????? Just because it is a law doesn't mean the law is right. This country was founded on judeo-Christian values and principles. The government has no business telling me what I can do in my own house and what I cant. A "study group" is not a church meeting.
What would be the difference if say you had a kid in high school or college who had 15 friends over once a week for a "study group." Do you think that should be banned too? Going by what you say it should. But I guess its ok just as long as it doesn't step on the toes of non-Christians, then it would be called discrimination.
and I am sick to death of the media sm
targeting Christians and Christian groups. I don't see how a Bible study is inconveniencing anyone! If folks block your drive that is another matter. Then they should be asked to move, park elsewhere whatever. But a Bible study group is not inconveniencing you or anyone else.
I would rather have a Bible study group next door to me than what some neighbors have to put up with.
Where does this stop? Like I said before, if someone wants to have just 12 people for example, then that is ok? You can't do anything about that. Where is the limit going to stop? I'll tell you where, when society has banned Christian gatherings altogether! That is when it will stop. This is nothing but a serious effort to persecute Christians and I don't care what you think about it.
Obey the law??????? Just because it is a law doesn't mean the law is right. This country was founded on judeo-Christian values and principles. The government has no business telling me what I can do in my own house and what I cant. A "study group" is not a church meeting.
What would be the difference if say you had a kid in high school or college who had 15 friends over once a week for a "study group." Do you think that should be banned too? Going by what you say it should. But I guess its ok just as long as it doesn't step on the toes of non-Christians, then it would be called discrimination.
P.S. I don't recall anyone posting a near death threat to the
remote to that.
Why is it you are the only ones who are "free" to display your anger on your board?
If you take a look at the posts on this board, the only time they get nasty is when a troll from your board comes here and begins spewing your hatred and rage.
Why are you so angry? Your guy won.
Whenever a liberal raises an issue concerning a Bush administration policy or decision, I seldom see an intelligent thoughtful response come from most of you. Instead you attack the poster on a personal level when that poster never personally attacked YOU. They complained about Bush. Are you BUSH??
Time and time again, most of you come back with "all liberals" insults and rarely, if ever, address the question or issue that was raised.
If you can begin to understand that it isn't YOU PERSONALLY that we are referring to, maybe then we can begin to have an intelligent conversation on this board.
If you are a conservative, I respect your right to your opinions, and I'd like to learn more about them. I can't do that if all you do is throw insults, which you are "free" to do on your board, but if we are angered or insulted by them, we are not likewise "free" to express that.
I had hoped that these new boards would eliminate the personal favorites that seemed to exist on the other board. Looks like that isn't the case.
And as far as approaching the administrator about fairness, if I can't do that, then I truly don't belong in a forum like this one. I belong in one that doesn't play favorites, where intelligent discourse can occur, where personal insults and attacks are prohibited for everyone, not just for some.
I just wonder how many people you've chased away from here, besides me.
And of course you have no problem with your children freezing to death
if you can't afford Bush's high oil prices.
If my child's life depended on it and I had no other choice, I would do whatever I had to do to keep my child safe, even if it means accepting oil from someone who apparently cares more for Americans than the president of the United States.
But I understand where you are coming from. Anything to follow this president in step, never questioning, never faltering, and if you and your kids have to freeze to death, then it's all for a good cause, right? It's for Bush.
So much for the family values you all pretend to have. 
Just as I predicted yesterday, here come the death threats!
Unbelievable! Just yesterday, I posted this in response to Starcat below:
Bush only needs one more appointment to basically stack the Supreme Court in his favor for decades to come, long after he is gone. Wouldn't surprise me if good ol' Pat Robertson starts *praying* for another vacancy on the Court (like he did before Rehnquist died), followed by the *mysterious* death of one of the more liberal judges. Wouldn't surprise me at all.
Today, I read this. The entire article can be found at http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20060315163009990004), but here is a paragraph from it:
According to Ginsburg, someone in a Web site chat room wrote: Okay commandoes, here is your first patriotic assignment ... an easy one. Supreme Court Justices Ginsburg and O'Connor have publicly stated that they use (foreign) laws and rulings to decide how to rule on American cases. This is a huge threat to our Republic and Constitutional freedom. ... If you are what you say you are, and NOT armchair patriots, then those two justices will not live another week.
I'm saddened but not at all surprised. This just illustrates how deranged and dangerous these people truly are. Pat Robertson must be praying really REALLY hard.
Well, you just signed your death warrant on this board
because you just listed many things the liberals here hold as Gospel.
The fact he described Zarqawi's death is *murder*
is a big clue that he supported what Zarqawi.
What about the charges and mysterious death of this woman...sm
Do you not find anything fishy here???
Yep, being compared to me is certainly a fate worse than death....
lol. But you might want to check the posts to see what I really said and not piglet's version of what I said. I have said over and over again that my opposition to abortion is on a moral level and I would be opposed to it on that level whether I knew God or not. Unless you are saying one must believe in God to have morals?? There are many in this country who oppose abortion on a strictly moral level. There are mainstream Democrats who oppose abortion on a moral level.
Are you morally opposed to murder? Are you morally opposed to stealing? To rape? To child molestation? Do you think you have to be "religious" to oppose those things? People who have never opened a Bible are morally opposed to most of those things. So please stop trying to say that anyone who opposes abortion is a conservative religious zealot. Because it is just not true. You do not have to be religious to have morals and be morally opposed to things that are just plain wrong.
And you all know that deep inside yourselves. Most would never admit it, of course....but you all know it.
No, just bored to death with Bible quotations,
nm
Listen to me, this choice is the death knell for
.
More clueless brain death from fringe.
x
What are you saying, death threats are okay? you missed the point
completely, that is utter ridiculousness. the poster meant I think people at McCain's rallies are calling for Obama's death - are you going to stick with that thought, that he should be able to take it? Could not disagree with you more
I'm sick to death of hearing the unfairness
When the majority of crimes committed in our community are by the black population, what should we do? Say, oh my goodness, you're black....we'll just pretend you didn't just kill someone on the corner in a driveby shooting or enter your elderly neighbor's house and shoot them dead cause you want what ain't yours....or a real good one....hide in the bushes of my neighbor's house, he drives up from work, and has a gun put to his temple and forced back into his car to the nearest ATM, where he was so fortunate to escape and run into a nearby store. To which, our black police chief hid the information and the local TV/paper didn't even know this happened until another neighbor call the TV/newspaper and gave them the details.
Or the AT&T cell phone center that just opened only to have OVER $20000 worth of phone stolen by several black men, who were seen running from the store by other blacks who reported them to the police. No, I'll just put my head in the sand and pretend I don't know the facts simply because we now have a black president. BTW, when many blacks attending COLLEGE were asked who they think would have the greatest influence on the young blacks would be, Obama or a black rapper, guess what their answer was? Clue: It WASN'T Obama. Yea, Obama will just turn those folks right around and show the bad ones the correct way to live. IN YOUR DREAMS!
Aren't you sick to death of being taxed to
subsidize the wealthy? How 'bout congress getting $4700 in COLA to "subsidize" their housing? They don't need mansions to live in while doing their jobs in Wash, DC. They don't need the top to be driven by chauffers. They don't need to be treated to banquets and dinners because they do their jobs in Wash. Congressmen constantly say they are serving the American people, or are they getting rich off the backs of the middle class? IMO, it is the latter. Or, how 'bout subsidizing oil companies who have made outrageous profits? Those subsidies should come to an END, NOW! These handouts go both ways!
At one point in my life, newly divorced, I worked for minimum wage, raising two young children. Although I was very frugal, it was extremely tough making rent, utilities (old junk car, no car payment), and food. One night, I broke my elbow, could not work, had no money except child support. After hospitalization, called Welfare Dept, could not receive food stamps because I "made too much money the month before." End of story as far as Welfare Dept was concerned. So, my mom and dad helped me out with groceries for my two kids. So, as far as welfare handouts, I received none. So, in my experience, I don't know where your b*tch is!!
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