My opinion - Not wanting to debate -- SM
Posted By: A on 2005-06-30
In Reply to: Please help me with this question... - Observer
Honestly, I believe that two things are going on here:
1) The American people do not have the absolute truth -- neither from the media nor from any government branch nor the President, any committee, etc. The whole truth about any issue has never been put out there.
2) MOST, not all, but MOST people do no really want truth. For people to have truth, they have to be responsible for accepting it (in which USUALLY - not always - is in conflict with how they are currently living and they just don't want the conscience about their own actions) or the responsibility for acting on it. People do not want to have to DO anything; they want others to do it for them. People do not want to have to make changes in their life; they want others to make those changes. People do not want to have ownership of where they could better be involved with their own community, government, country - they want others to do that.
Without the truth and the willingness to accept it for whatever it is, the American people will never have a stable ground to make the next progressive step.
I would say the next issue at hand would be that people simply have different priorities. I'm not referring to the choices we are actually making in our lives, but in what we are saying we want our government to provide, obtain, offer, and protect for us. I see many people SAYING they want the government to "do something" about an issue; however, these very people do not make that choice for themselves personally. Example: I know MANY people who want "the government" to "do something" about the violence and sex on TV, music, etc. However, those same people attend R-rated movies and buy them at Wal-Mart and bring them into their homes, and think some of the roughest or raciest shows are fabulous. It's a contradiction. They do not want to be personally responsible, but they want to demand that others and the government make provisions.
This is just one example of many where I see a contradiction in what we SAY we want and what we are willing to actually be self-responsible for.
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No, curious as in wanting to know...
and it is obvious what you are "compelled" to do.
Not as scary as someone wanting to...
figure out "which factions are involved" before acting (when asked about AL Qaeda).
And I am sure Obama can emphathize with the statement "clumsy word choices" this morning.
That's right. I'm funny that way, wanting to keep
It's called logical thinking. Try it sometime - you'll like it!
Wanting the whole truth is fanatical?
nm
Since when did wanting to see ALL Americans prosper
Are you telling me that it is a an either/or situation? In other words, the American dream is only available to those who are willing to setp over their fellow citizens to grab it? If that's the case, sign me up for a little socialism. Sheesh.
Pathetic is not wanting to know the truth
FOS back at you - whatever it means. I'm sure it's not nice.
Can someone tell me why everyone says Obama is wanting the elderly to die?
I keep reading posts about letting elderly people die. I did not get to listen to the speech last night, so I do not know what the subject matter was concerning this point and would like to know.
Thanks!
Your opinion of torture is your opinion. Tough
nm
Wanting truth and accountability = hatred?sm
Dissent, not loyalty to the almighty State is patriotic.
Ron Paul supporter? Not wanting to fight, just asking.
nm
Maybe, but with most terrorists wanting to see Barack elected, that
Wonder why they want him elected so much?
I do disagree about not wanting to give to those who CAN'T work. sm
My sister had brain damage from birth and has never been able to keep a job. She is able to live on her own, but she barely survives. Our mother, who is retired, took a part-time job to continue to take care of my sister. What happens when my mother can't do that anymore or dies? I guess it will be my turn to take care of my sister. What about people who don't have anyone to do that for them? Do you realize the meager amounts people are given right now barely enable them to survive? You (poster below complaining about giving to those who can't/won't/don't work) would not be able to survive. You obviously have no idea what hunger feels like or what it is like to go to bed at night as a child with no dinner, no snack, and hope for breakfast the next morning. I will most certainly give to those who can't work.
another liberal wanting money...waaaa....nm
//
Wanting to see W and his party bite the dust
half (and probably more like 60%) of Americans seem to share. By your (il-)logic, that makes them all jihadists? At least 100,000 Iraqi civilians have died behind W's war of lies. We are making air strikes into 2 other soverign nations in the midst of a tanking republican presidential campaign. Ever hear of a war of attrition...the kind that wears down a nation from the inside because of the economic drain it places on its population? From where I sit, W played right into the hands the terrorist dealt. Continuation of such saber-rattling imperialism makes terrorist predictions a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Bombing countries into democracy, illegal occupations, kangaroo trials and lynching of leaders who do not bend to US will which fail to follow their OWN rule of law, military presence in defiance of overwhelming popular mandates that seek to take back control of their own country, flagrant disregard for human rights, clandestine interrogations, torture and humiliation of POWs not afforded the benefit of a trial, selective stateside vote suppression that overwhelming favors the party that is on its way out and the litany of other such violations of our historic basic principles make a MOCKERY of our own claims to be the greatest democracy on the face of the earth.
Live by example. It's simple. If we are not able to live up to and be accountable for our own basic tenants, we will self-destruct with or without any help from FUTURE leaders.
Personally, lately....I've been wanting to smack....sm
my husband up the side of the head.
He's been saying for weeks that now's the time to buy, and that if we had extra money in our accounts, he'd do it....just this morning, he said he's buy tons of Citigroup, GM, and Ford, as if you do, and hold onto it long enough, you could make a killing.
Needless to say, though....we don't have enough to do this at the moment....he refuses to buy on margin, so we'll just sit here and watch the stock markets.
Now IS the time to buy, though, that's very, very true......
Not honoring her son by wanting answers, and speaking what she knows he felt.sm
He joined the army in 2002 before the Iraqi war began, so it's plenty possible he didn't agree with the Iraqi war.
No logical thinking person would have thought that Bush would focus his attention after 9-11 on Iraq.
Just had a friend last night wanting to use my extra bedroom -
NO WAY - would rather take on 10 extra jobs than let somebody else stay in my house with me again....
have tried it and tried it and it never works...
Debate, lets debate
Honey, I dont know if your problem is Alzheimer's or Parkinson's but I have debated all over this board..I have tried and tried again and again to debate with your cohorts..It starts out okay and then your conservative friends start attacking and it continues through the debate to where then there is no longer a debate. I ask for you to check the archives and you will see this..nothing but personal attacks against me, which then I attacked back..Debate..lets debate..I WOULD LOVE TO DEBATE WITHOUT ATTACKS..Place an issue and lets debate..Who knows..my consciousness might be raised or yours might be..Lets do it,,
People wanting less gov't interference in their lives (CONSERVATIVES) are being labeled......sm
Those who attend the Tea Parties are being labeled "right wing extremists." As an organizer of a Tea Party in my town, I am going to wear that label with pride. Below is the quote from the Dept. of Homeland Security:
On the eve of the nationwide tax day Tea Parties, Barack Obama's DHS has issued a "rightwing" threat assessment to warn of the "current economic and political climate fueling resurgence in radicalization and recruitment" for "rightwing extremism." Who are these extremists? According to the report, adherants are rimarily "hate-oriented" or "antigovernment" but also include "individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration."
Personally, I think it is more than quite a coincidence that Obama's DHS is warning of the "rightwing" threat on the eve of the Tea Parties! This is a blatant attempt to taint the efforts of those who are standing for the patriotic, idea-based resistance.
Anything or anyone who does not toe the Obamarama line or has not drunk the kook-aid, is automatically considered a "right wing extremist."
There is a 10 page document put out by an office which is a branch of the Dept Homeland Security called "The Extremism and Radicalization Branch, Homeland Environment Threat Analysis Division. Coordinated with the FBI.
There are 4 words that should make you very nervous....COORDINATED WITH THE FBI. Below is the link to download or read the PDF file.
http://api.ning.com/files/UNNlkOVukw8cXztJc4bDEq2ztrm9owekwvHofmLwYgxLlpwX8*h1av8amHehbYkmt3Qvxny16Gh1ob8gFYeRrw2HVq-joU7Y/hsarightwingextremism0904071.pdf
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Remember,Rome decayed from within.
Ok, off my soapbox.
i agree. of course, the white male would be called a racist too for not wanting a minority to succed
//
History is history and opinion is opinion. You need to learn the difference.
x
You do not know how to debate
you are the biggest hypocrite ever. I was debating with you, but just because you didn't like what I said you said I was attacking you.
Again, you're are a sad individual....hateful sad individual.
As far as I see it, there is no debate.
This country has gone to the dogs. We are now just another *invading* country, with no morals, no Constitution, nothing of which to be proud. We have a lying, warring regime taking us down with them, taking our freedoms, spitting on the Constitution, tearing the very fabric of this country, and you see nothing evil about that? That, my fellow American, is what I cannot comprehend. Furthermore, Iraq was not our enemy. The Bush Family MADE him our enemy so that our very DEMOCRACY would be eroded to the point that we won't even recognize by the time he is out of office. And you don't see any EVIL in that? WAKE UP, Smell the coffee, or even the stench that wreaks from this regime.
Debate
One of the biggest problems that we have today is our inability to have intellegent discussions. The previous commenters irrational, over-wrought statements, frought with conspiracy theory, does an excellent job of proving that point. There is plenty of grist for calling those in power to task for their actions and decisions without foaming at the mouth. Oh, how I long for the days of the old boy's club of the congress before the eighties when people of conscience could disagree on substance, still be fast friends and treat their political opposites with respect and decorum. I'm contuinally amazed how the most vocal and extreme ascribe nefarious motives to others. This seems to be, almost exclusively, an affliction of the left. Without this intellectual pollution, we might be able to actually find common ground.
Debate me...
First it was that **we couldn't debate,** now it is ** persecution.** When did I say I was persecuted. I merely said the Crusades have been seen in a negative light for as long as I can remember and suddenly they are being seen in a good light. That's all, kaput, the end. Martyr...don't think so.
I don't know how you can live with such disdain for all liberals and all Arab peoples and have any peace or joy in your life. That is a full-time job, being angry.
debate
Hillary all the way -
No need to debate this...because I see it as the same and you do not....
I listened to AL Franken on Air America quite a few times...that was mild, and it was not a joke. He meant it when he said it. I find that offensive. You do not, probably because Ann Coulter did not say it talking about Democrats. Face it, if Ann Coulter had made the same comment Al Franken did, substituting Democrat names and Democrat for Republican, you would not say Ann Coulter was obviously joking and ignore it. That is what I am talking about...you can see exactly what Ann COulter did wrong, but blow off Al Franken as obviously joking. I just don't get that kind of rationalization, sorry. No offense meant...just don't understand it, and it seems so prevalent on the left side of the house. I mean, I can say Ann Coulter was wrong and that both statements by both people were offensive and wrong. You can agree that what Franken said was tasteless and classless, yet he gets a buy as *obviously joking." I just don't get why you can't just say both were wrong and leave it at that...Coulter has to be worse and Franken gets a buy.
Debate
Once again, this is a subject I feel very strongly about. I applaud anyone who broadens their education by learning a foreign language or learning anything new for that matter.
That being said, I believe that anyone who wishes to immigrate to THIS country should wish to embrace our language, our customs and our way of life, not the other way around. I am speaking here of the illegal INVADERS. I imagine that those who become citizens through legal channels, most likely learn English. I am sick to death of hearing babbling everywhere I go, to the grocery store, to restaurants, everywhere. My ancestors immigrated LEGALLY from Ireland and Germany. The other side of the ancestors were herded up and driven to a reservation like so many cattle. I live next door to the Cherokee Nation and not once have I heard them speaking in their native tongue outside of their Powwows, although they strive to keep the language alive. They don't require a press 1 for Cherokee on every telephone message system.
If this language issue isn't enough, it infuriates me that the Mexicans can come here to OUR country and march in their demonstrations while waving their MEXICAN flag.
Unfortunately, the reason we have to learn THEIR language to commuicate is most likely the majority who enter our country illegally are ignorant in even the most basic education and thus not likely to be able to learn a foreign language i.e. English.
You are correct, if we aren't willing to stand up for the heritage of our country; we may as well learn the language as one day we will most likely be part of Mexico and Spanish will be the official language.
debate is on
per debate commission and Obama. Let's rock.
debate
i will probably watch on cnn. i do not want to miss a word or a fumble/jumble confused silly look on anyone's face. I am my own best commentator and so will listen to the commentators after the debate.... one candidate is really not overly intelligent. i will see how well he was briefed...looking forward to the comedy !
I too think that this debate could have
been more indepth and not just the same old ho hum we have been hearing since the start. Then again, it was only the first debate and hopefully they will get better. We have a right to hear specifics from both candidates. We have a right to see them put on the spot to see how well they handle themselves. I want specific questions directed to each candidate and I was specific answers with details. I don't want just a pleasant little Q&A session of fluff.
On the debate....
I was kinda struck by how Obama kept harping on the 10 billion a day (was it?) spent in Iraq...but talking about more troops to Afghanistan. Three brigades I think he said he would send. Okay. So, we are just going to transfer the 10 billion a day to Afghanistan instead of Iraq. Still going to spend it, just in a different place. I was almost yelling at the TV at McCain...ASK HIM ABOUT THAT. lol.
All kidding aside....what I took away from it was Obama leans heavily on Joe Biden for the foreign policy stuff because he is just out of his element. I thought Obama looked uncomfortable, and I got really tired of the smirk after awhile.
On the other hand...in all fairness, John needs to drop the "Miss Congeniality" line. I was talking to the TV again..."we know, John, we KNOW." lol.
I think what makes Obama dangerous is his world view. I do not say that to be mean....I just don't think he is realistic about it. On the one hand he praises General Petraeus (that he got right), and turns right around and won't own up to the fact that the surge worked (even though O'Reilly got him to admit it). Just goes back to the war was wrong. The country is still divided on that. You can't turn back time...and to lose it now would be wrong. Petraeus DID say Obama's plan for a timetable was wrong. I would think more of him if he would say "okay john, you were wrong about the war, but we're there and can't change that. And I was wrong about the surge." I know...dream on...lol.
It was a little alarming to me, facing what we are facing with this "rescue" bill, he STILL talked about spending bazillion dollars. He would not, when pressed, name ONE thing he would put on hold. That just makes NO sense to me, with the "rescue" bill, the deficit, owing money to China yada yada....and wants to fund that stuff with stiff taxes for business...in a down economy. Sorry, I think that's NUTS. Sorry....that also tells me he is either not real smart, or trying to get the vote of people who can't see past "he is going to lower my taxes and give me free health care." I really don't think he is not really smart, so if he gets selected he will be saying "I wanted to do these things, but the economy won't let me."
I have heard people talk all morning (on the Dem side) about how he mentioned the middle class and John McCain didn't. Frankly, the way it appeared to me, was Obama was pandering to the have nots and McCain is not going to promise something he knows he couldn't deliver in the economic situation we find ourselves in. I thought it was kinda patronizing actually. McCain understands that small businesses and yes, nasty corporations, drive this economy and employ a huge number of Americans. In an economic downturn higher taxes on businesses does not work.
Another thing I think McCain should have JUMPED on is that Obama supports the Hank Paulson rescue plan endorsed by Bush and John McCain doesn't like it as it stands. Obama is siding with BUSH! Oh well....lol.
in this debate
the results would be the same no matter who the moderator or modulator or referee or interpretor was.
Debate
After watching the debates I have finally made up my mind. We can not afford to have the angry, unstable John McCain in the White House. He was not only angry, he was sarcastic. My husband and I kept laughing waiting for him to explode. I happen to live in a state that is leaning toward McCain. I notice on the local TV station's forum, 5 people who have been avid McCain supporters have said they changed their mind after watching the debates. It was evident that Obama was angry a couple of times, and I don't blame him but he never lost his "cool."
The race issue is going to play a part in this election but I wonder, has anyone considered that Obama is both black and white? Maybe, just maybe, he could be the one to finally put the race issue to rest. Many blacks will vote for him because he is "black." Many whites will not vote for him because he is "black." Ridiculous. He is equally black and white. Since Lou Dobbs is not running in the first place, he has no chance of being elected. I have decided I will take a chance on Obama. If he turns out to be the worst president in history, well, I'll come back and say I helped elect him. The only real issue I have with him is that of his church affiliation. I noticed that was not brought up in the debate so I can only assume that McCain has investigated that thoroughly and found that there is nothing there that would benefit him.
And as for "Joe the plumber"........I have no doubt that with his notoriaty he will own his own plumbing company but what about my son, "Bill the plumber" who also aspires to own his own plumbing company? My son, "Bill the plumber" has been inclined to vote for McCain but doesn't think either candidate will help him own his own company and neither do I.
I didn't hear anything about "Jane the MT." What about all the MTs who can't find a job? That might be a good talking point.......did anyone notice that Obama wants to reduce medical costs by putting medical records on the internet? Can anyone say bye-bye medical transcriptionists? Of course that is already in the works so really won't make much difference.
debate
I agree. McCain cannot hide his shifty, deceiving body language. He blinks more often and quicker, and he doodles on paper rather than being comfortable making eye contact with Obama.
No one in this world can perform miracles, per se, but I feel that Obama has integrity and diplomacy and really wants to try and better the multitude of conflicts this nation is under, in a realistic but motivated fashion.
Actually during the last debate
He said "when I am president" quite a few times. Just FYI.
Thanks for the debate, its been fun
I think we both have valid concerns. Here's hoping things turn out better than they are now.
Almost a different debate entirely
This thread was started with no differentiation made between Radical Islam and the more moderate practitioners. Do you believe that evangelical christians are a religion? How about the fundamentalists? I personally consider all of them (radical, evangelical, fundamentalists) to be a religion, albeit one that may not necessarily hold the same values as the broader category they fall under.
Why won't you debate the issue
because you can't back up what you are saying, I assume. You just point fingers and call names like that's winning a debate.
They don't want debate or dissent, although....
that is the biggest cry from the left, that dissent is good. Unfortunately they only tolerate dissent that THEY agree with. I actually find it quite boring to simply say on my own board and preach to the choir. That's what's fun about politics, the debate and the banter. But I see far less tolerance for differing opinions from the liberals in this country even though they claim to be all for choice and dissent and all those other nifty little words they volley about.
There are several topics of debate
that have attempted to be started on the CON board. Unfortunately, no one seems interested in engaging in an intelligent discussion there. Instead, they apparently prefer to come here and vent. I have no idea why you're congratulating me. I don't believe I've chased one LIBERAL away from the LIBERAL BOARD.
And I obviously don't deserve any congratulations for chasing the CON trolls from this board because they've entrenched themselves here and won't leave. Maybe your congratulatory wishes should instead be directed at them.
Can we keep the peace and also debate, please?
Here we go..how many days was there peace over here on the liberal board..three? Five? Oh geez..I did not generalize..I most certainly have seen many anti choice people screaming out against a womans right to choose about her body..all I was stating is I sure hope they are screaming also for the children who are lost in the system, living in horrible homes or group homes. From what I can see, there are so many children waiting for adoption, in foster care. Lets help them FIRST..
Democrat knows how to debate. sm
She actually entertains views other than her own and guess what...she reads the thread and what's in the posts. Imagine that! If I was trolling, by the way, I would choose a different name, now wouldn't I? you know, like you do when you come on the other board (LOUD EXPLOSION OF *I NEVER COME ON YOUR BOARD* COMING)!!!!
I would be willing to debate you any time. TI
Let's start with the chosen people concept.
Obviously, this person does not wish to debate. TI
We are wasting our time here.
You surely know how to debate.....not
....and you are one high quality person.....not.
Someone we'd definitely want to listen and debate with.....not!!
Well to me a good debate is when...sm
each person walks away understanding the other sides views. Even though I don't usually agree, I walk away with a better understanding and sometimes respect for your opinion. In some cases, I have been swayed more to the middle.
When everyone loses in a debate is when ideals bounce back and forth just for the sake of bouncing them back and forth and no one is hearing the other. I'm not knocking it, but my patience has grown thin for it, is all I'm saying.
ABC debate on Saturday
Good Monday morning!
Looking for feedback from those who actually watched the debate on Saturday. I only got to watch the last hour of the democrats which was intersesting. I caught the regurgitated news afterward but am looking more for personal opinions.
Thanks!
I was happy after the last debate
I like Hillary, but she makes me a little nervous. My biggest question would be - would she be able to pull the parties together enough to get things done? I'm not so sure.
I have been very happy that Barack Obama has been stepping up recently and making sure his views are known. That's exactly what I have been wanting him to do. If he keeps up with the powerful speeches, I think his numbers will climb. If the primaries were tomorrow, I'd vote for him. I think he could bring people together.
When is that debate going to be held?
I agree people are fed up with politics as usual and with all the reasons you gave. I don’t understand why some people are saying Mr. Obama is running for president of the world just because he calls himself a citizen of the world. I thought he was talking about American diplomacy and trying to improve international relations. He was in Europe and I think the Europeans want to see that happen instead of war. The accusations don’t seem very important. You already know what is important to you so all you can do is listen to the debate between Mr. McCain and Mr. Obama and make up your mind about which candidate sounds like he would care about those things the most and then vote for that one. It is too bad that people think politicians are liars but sometimes the campaign managers try to make the other candidate look like a liar. I just try to believe in what the candidate says about himself and his ideas. I wish Mr. Obama would ask Hillary to join him on the ticket because she had so much support and they would make a good team.
Saddleback Debate on again now on FNC. nm
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