Oldtimer, it is used in late-term abortions. To get rid of babies.
Posted By: sam on 2008-09-17
In Reply to: The procedure of partial birth abortion you describe is...sm - oldtimer
nm
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Late term...(sm)
If the infant is able to survive outside the womb, then it would fall on the physician to do whatever possible to save that life (even if that includes refusing to do an abortion), just like any other. I don't think you'll find too many docs who will actually do abortions that late because it's increasingly dangerous for the mother. I think most clinics only go up to about 15 or 16 weeks anyway. I do think that if you are going to have an abortion it should be done in a timely manner anyway for the mother's health. I also believe that if the mother's life is in danger from the pregnancy, a late-term abortion may be necessary. And then there's the money. I wonder how many people have to opt for late-term abortions because it takes them that long to get the money for the abortion. Yet another reason to add in abortion to family planning services.
Murdering near-term babies isn't violent?
nm
If you don't want 'botched abortions', then you better
%
Legal or not, there will always be abortions.
Abortions will always be performed whether they are legal or not. When I was in college, abortion was illegal. Several students became pregnant and had illegal abortions by back-alley butchers, and they almost died from hemorrhage and infection. Others tried to abort their pregnancies with wire hangers, knitting needles, and other drastic measures. I would much rather have legal abortions performed by licensed physicians than force young women to resort to barbaric procedures to terminate their pregnancies.
Most abortions don't take place......... sm
at 1 day after conception. So that line of thinking is just ridiculous.
Now, let's suppose you kill a 3-year-old or 10-year-old or 15-year-old child. Would you be guilty of murder in that instance? I thought so.
There are 1.2 million abortions in this country every year....
and a great many of those are teenagers. Are you saying the parents of all those teenagers lack judgment and responsibility? Check out how many are minorities. So are you now saying that all those minority parents lack judgment and responsibility?
Boy, you are really grasping at straws here. It is hard to believe that you could really even post such a thing, but less believe it!
Kind of a side question about parental consent on abortions
What happens if something goes wrong and the 14 year old dies while having the abortion? Do the parents have any recourse?
I just don't think anyone should undergo a medical procedure like that without the consent of parents. Everyone says "oh control your kids, make them behave, you need to be aware of what they are doing" but then something as huge as this is okay for them to not know about?
I've just always wondered about that. It just seems irresponsible. Whats next? 14-year-old girls can get breast implants without consent?
oldtimer.....
Obviously you didn't see the interview with this doctor. There was no breech delivery with the cervix clamping down on anything. It was flat out a decision to abort a late-term pregnancy because the mother simply decided that is what she wanted. This murderer agreed to do these abortions and did them quite frequently. Now,if you want to believe that only well meaning doctors do these only for the reason you keep listing, go ahead, but the doc himself made it clear this was not a life or death situation, simply the mother deciding she no longer wanted the baby. The procedure he performed had absolutely nothing to do with necessity. It WAS to just "GET RID" of a viable baby in the true sense.
Now, you're saying this doctor didn't know what he was doing? These are murderers who perform these acts NOT OUF OF NECESSITY but for money, plain and simple, it's money. Mother didn't want the baby, so she found a doctor who obviously has absolutely no conscience at ALL and should be tried as a murderer.
He has not tried to hide the fact that he is performing these murders because he says the law is on his side.
to oldtimer
I totally agree with you...
Hey oldtimer, from another oldtimer!
I just wanted to thank you for posting the link to this article. I found it fascinating. It makes me feel more hopeful about the future of the USA, and it's nice to read an article on occasion that stimulates genuine thinking.
Oldtimer - I enjoy your
posts - don't let the extremists bum you out.
At least you were kind about it, oldtimer....sm
The three dems above you, are not kind at all.
Oldtimer, I know you are an Obama
supporter, and I am definitely not an Obama supporter. That aside, I tip my hat to you as you speak with more sincerity and maturity than anyone else on this board! Thank you.
BTW, I am probably an older timer than you!
amen, oldtimer! n/m
sx
I agree with oldtimer. So in your eyes, we should go right in,
In that case, I think your initial question was posed only in hopes of baiting an Obama supporter. I sure hope that's not the case.
Oldtimer was the original poster
You would have probably gotten that had you not been in such a hurry to jump my post. I have nothing to hide, nothing to get away with and see no real reason to dumb down the phrasology, tone or content of my posts. I respond in kind to to folks who have no real interest in viable political issues, are constantly in attack mode, have pronounced adversions to logic, reason and facts and who haul out the holier-than-thou, pious, elite accusations when trying to avoid any sort of intelligent discourse.
There will always be opposition around who can be as in-your-face as the you choose to be...or not. If I "bother" you somehow, so be it. Right wingers bother me too, but you don't see me going around trying to kick them off the board or telling them they post more than they should.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Give respect and get respect. That's the way it works in the grown-up world. It's your choice.
I was speaking to you, "sm" not oldtimer. (nm)
That was kind of rude, oldtimer. nm
nm
You are definitely not a right-wing wacko, oldtimer!
I was not referring to anyone in particular as a right-wing wacko, especially you. In fact, I find your posts to be very thoughtful and intelligent.
I agree wholeheartedly with you oldtimer -
My child struggles every week to pay her bills, her childcare, buy groceries for the kids - all on her own because at $10 an hour she makes too much to get any kind of help, but at the same time the doctors she works for are all driving nice new Hummers, Range Rovers, building million dollar buildings. And of course, they will be the first ones to complain about having to pay higher taxes.
I don't think that because she is their employee that she is working any less than them. Of course, they deserve to be paid good, but I think the "little people" who make it possible for you to run your business should get something along the line.
You said it oldtimer! Obama won by majority and
It's time for people to back the new president and be patriotic. Stop the same old vitriol.
Ummm....Oldtimer has posted several times
You and I are on the same page when it comes to rude and inflammatory posts. I will be responding to them whenever the spirit moves me. You should do the same...or not. Whatever. BTW, I for one could give a rat's bottom about maintaining a "reputation" on a forum where many, many people make a choice to remain anonymous. It's just one of those things in life you have to learn to deal with. If name-calling and throwing tantrums gives you some sense of releif, go for it, but do not expect the target to go stand in the corner and hide out until you are done.
Ummm....Oldtimer has posted several times
You and I are on the same page when it comes to rude and inflammatory posts. I will be responding to them whenever the spirit moves me. You should do the same...or not. Whatever. BTW, I for one could give a rat's bottom about maintaining a "reputation" on a forum where many, many people make a choice to remain anonymous. It's just one of those things in life you have to learn to deal with. If name-calling and throwing tantrums gives you some sense of releif, go for it, but do not expect the target to go stand in the corner and hide out until you are done.
Sorry, oldtimer, sounds like passing the buck to me...
you would think you would want to clean your party up. But I guess not. Whatever, your choice. I do not turn a deaf ear to what any Democrats say on this board...I just refute what is not truthful. And they pound me pretty good as well. And as to tuning me out...do whatever makes you comfortable. It is a free country, after all.
But oldtimer...the fact remains...if those 94 democrats...
had voted yes, it would have passed ANYWAY, no matter what the Republicans did. enough Republicans voted for it that the 94 democrats would have made the difference. It would have passed. Not all republicans voted against it.
Cry babies
Your post is so true. Cry babies, run to the moderator and get the posts they disagree with deleted, even though they are posted on the LIBERAL board.
Cry babies
The posts that get removed are removed because they violate the rules for the boards posted by the administrator. Typical liberal response, follow only the rules you like, and to use your term, become a cry baby when the you don't like the rules. With all due respect, spend less time whining about who posts on what board and what posts are removed, and more time trying to figure out why you think it is more important to investigate Bush than it is to concentrate on terrorism. Still having a real difficult time trying to wrap my mind around that one. But..it does underscore why conservatives are so concerned and rightly so.
Cry babies
The two posts of last week were removed because a conservative who came on this board (you?) did not agree with them. Both were articles from journalists and printed in major newspapers, so obviously cleared and approved by the editors of the newspapers and read throughout America. However, the conservative did not agree with the articles, so whined and cried and ran to the moderator (flash back of junior high actions) and had them removed. My opinion is, if a conservative cannot handle an article that was posted in a newspaper and obviously cleared by its editor, dont read it, go back to the conservative board and leave the liberal board alone. I have never posted on the conservative board but have read some of the posts and some are definitely inflammatory and attacks on liberal/democratic politicians. Liberals have not asked to have those posts removed. Conservatives: Do as I say, not as I do.
Too little, too late ?????
I was clarifying my position. Are you not the one who **doesn't need a mother spouting moral holier-than-thou sermons** and the one who is **sick of it.** Telling me too little to late, you can't backpeddle now, the damage is done!!! Are you serious??? What damage, to whom, what backpeddling??. If you are reading my post as an apology you are mistaken. It was just clarification to Observer's post where she said she did not understand why I thought the president should not be there...and I answered her that was not what I meant.
I know it's too late now
But does anyone else look at these two candidates for president and think, This is it? The best the United States has to offer?
For that matter, I thought the same thing before the primaries. I don't know if any of these yahoos has what it takes.
It's sad, really.
I think it is too late
to save him. His choice of her shows impulsivity and pandering. People are aware of these characteristics now. Sarah will contribute to his defeat at the hands of the voters, but she is not responsible for it.
Also, too little, too late . . .
there is absolutely no sincerity in McCain's efforts to now try to undo the damage he has done. He is so insincere that his own supporters don't believe him now. He is the one that encouraged this mob fervor in the first place and now he had literally created monstors!
How many babies do you think die in
the wars that Bush and McCain support? Or does it only matter when American babies die?
You say you think McCain is the lesser of two evils because he is against abortion, right? Well if you are against the concept of killing innocent life, you should be APPALLED at the number of innocent children the US has killed in IRAQ, and will kill in Iran if Mr. 'Prolife" McCain gets in power.
Let your "conscience" be your guide.
Sorry so late.
No they don't supply BK, at least not at this time.
So were the babies
murdered. I don't see you making a case for them.
It's a little late in the game, isn't it?
It's late...never mind nm
xx
At this point, I think it is too late.
They WILL steal the election, but I am voting for McCain anyway. Absolutely disgraceful what is going on.
Anchor babies. sm
You mean to tell me, gourdpainter, that you don't celebrate this country's great cultural differences and rights for every American born citizen? I'm shocked!!!! 
Seriously, yes, I do see this as a problem, but doing away with the 14th Amendment is not the way to keep this from happeniing. I'm not sure what the correct procedure for handling this would be or even if it could be done as anchor babies are automatically citizens, but I would think writing your congressmen would be the place to start. This is one of the tragedies this country might face because of weak borders and law enforcement's seeming inabiilty to send illegals back where they came from. It goes deeper than that, though.
You know, you mentioned in another post that no Native American has ever run for POTUS. Actually, they probably have more right than Caucasian American citizens to hold this office as they were here first. 
anchor babies are ---
Anchor babies are babies born to foreigners on American soil. They by virtue of being born here are automatically American citizens even if their parents are not and even if their parents are here illegally. Thus, one day, we could very well have a president whose parents are here illegally, whose parents do not speak English, and he will be legal to be the president! Think that's right?
The law concerning anchor babies....sm
In 1898, the Supreme Court in United States v. Wong Kim Ark declared that the Fourteenth Amendment adopted the common-law definition of birthright citizenship. Chief Justice Melville W. Fuller’s dissenting opinion, however, argued that birthright citizenship had been repealed by the principles of the American Revolution and rejected by the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment. Nonetheless, the decision conferred birthright citizenship on a child of legal residents of the United States. Although the language of the majority opinion in Wong Kim Ark is certainly broad enough to include the children born in the United States of illegal as well as legal immigrants, there is no case in which the Supreme Court has explicitly held that this is the unambiguous command of the Fourteenth Amendment.
Based on the intent of the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment, some believe that Congress could exercise its Section 5 powers to prevent the children of illegal aliens from automatically becoming citizens of the United States. An effort in 1997 failed in the face of intense political opposition from immigrant rights groups. Apparently, the question remains open to the determination of the political and legal processes.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/GovernmentReform/wm925.cfm
This was in the late 70s early 80s
As far as I know, none of my friends slept with these students. One of the guys used to come up to our hometown and spend the night and never ever acted like he was interested in "conquering" my friend or I. We were all just friends. maybe the times were different?
Keep your hate - you are much too late
http://www.bornagainamerican.org/
Am I too late to vote?? AGAINST!!!
nm
Where do babies come from? 1 man and 1 woman
I understand these relationships, but I don't think traditional marriage between a man and a woman should cover gays/lesbians. They have civil unions in my state and now they want marriage. Leave the tradition of marriage alone.
This is a little late, but here is my opinion
Gore is a sore loser and should keep his mouth shut. He is still bitter over losing the election and every time he opens his mouth it shows. He was worthless as VP and even more worthless now. His whole life is based on lies he creates thinking everyone is so stupid they will believe him. Nothing he has to say is of any significance and if he crawled back into the hole he crawled out of the world would be a better place.
Gore has no right to criticize anything anyone has to say.
He talks about policies being un-American? What I consider un-American is putting out the lies about global warming, while he rides around with his enterage (sp?) of limos, SUVs, and planes. And is trying to bank off of this farce he is creating, and just so happens the companies that you buy (or whatever it is you do) with the carbon credits...he gains financially from.
I'm certainly no Cheney fan, but Gore critizing him???? I wish Mr. Hore would just go away.
Probably a little too late........ but have a great vac, ! nm
x
I am not willing to assume that 1.2 million babies...
would have horrible lives. I can't see killing them all just in case some might suffer. But how is our choice to decide whether or not someone lives based on what kind of life they might have? I think it should be the choice of the creator, myself. I am curious as to what you think your creator thinks about choosing to kill an unborn child? I think mine's heart breaks every time one happens...over 2000 times a day. Yes, that's what I think.
It's quick? It's horrible but its quick? Good grief!!
You keep discounting the right of the child to live. Who are you, the mother, or anyone else, to say that child has no right to live? Do you think your creator endowed you with that right? Just curious.
How many unwanted babies have you adopted, sam? (nm)
???
But that's the whole McCain strategy of late! sm
Keep repeating the same lies and half-truths over and over in spite of the facts, and some people will believe it. Oh, and make sure to keep people really, really afraid. That always works well for Republicans too.
Hey, it worked for George W. Bush, and here we are, 8 years later, with Karl Rove and friends at it again now, this time for McCain. "Country First"? More like "party first" and "winning first" for McCain.
A day late and a dollar short......
xx
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